Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans

← 2015-03-20 | 2015-03-22 →
mircea_popescu: it's just, children are a cost everyone seems to wish to externalize.
decimation: yes, agreed
decimation: a few generations ago it was considered everyone's job (in the family tree) to assist with the young children
mircea_popescu: amusingly, the revolutionary french actually put it in the code that pregnant women may steal food off market displays.
mircea_popescu: but, in turkey, at the height of the syrian refugee crisis, i numerously observed various people selling food gifting items to pregnant syrian women.
mircea_popescu: the idea's widespread.
decimation: there is some of that in the us, in a fossilized way. sometimes pregnant women are given priority for parking, for instance
mircea_popescu: (put the husbands in the most visibly awkward position too - once that hand to chest gesture's done they can't refuse, but on the other hand... their wife's sexuality was just referenced by these half-satan pigdogs. was pretty lulzy to observe)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57350 @ 0.00028252 = 16.2025 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: which doth mean that even across religious conflict, the pregnant woman trumps the imam. imagine that!
decimation: heh. no one can shrug off their own humanity
mircea_popescu: i'm not even sure that's what it is.
mircea_popescu: There are no limits to male hypocrisy in this matter. No doubt there are moments when man’s sexual immunities are made acutely humiliating to him. When the terrible moment of birth arrives, its supreme importance and its superhuman effort and peril, in which the father has no part, dwarf him into the meanest insignificance: he slinks out of the way of the humblest petticoat, happy if he be poor enough to be pushed o
mircea_popescu: ut of the house to outface his ignominy by drunken rejoicings. But when the crisis is over he takes his revenge, swaggering as the breadwinner, and speaking of Woman’s “sphere” with condescension, even with chivalry, as if the kitchen and the nursery were less important than the office in the city. When his swagger is exhausted he drivels into erotic poetry or sentimental uxoriousness; and the Tennysonian King Ar
mircea_popescu: thur posing at Guinevere becomes Don Quixote grovelling before Dulcinea. You must admit that here Nature beats Comedy out of the field: the wildest hominist or feminist farce is insipid after the most commonplace “slice of life.”
mircea_popescu: i am rather persuaded by shaw there.
mircea_popescu: quite out of the field.
mircea_popescu: the us equivalent, of course, being mammie to rhett butler : "theis ain't a man's job, buzz off."
mircea_popescu: << fwiw, i am still not convinced that the electric neuron is not the correct approach. the problem is that it should be stateful. i am half tempted to model what happens if you run a grid of these with say 255 states per.
decimation: there was a time when the husband could appropriately wait outside to receive the new little one after the moment came
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 23:15:14; jurov: lol "we don't know what is a consciousness? let's say it is composed of many of itself"
thestringpuller: anyone watching the friedcat story developing
mircea_popescu: jurov you ever considered doing stand-up comedy ? something in the stewart vein mebbe ?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller sort-of. why /
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mircea_popescu: << well, something like that. "what do you mean by this nonsensical question you purport to be asking"
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 23:46:09; asciilifeform: the answer to 'is the copy you' is 'shutthefuckup you're asking a broken question'
mircea_popescu: but that aside : you will note that if i make a bitwise copy of a running system on anothjer system, eiteher will continue independently. if i then set the second on fire, the first is unharmed. whether the 2nd "Thinks" that "it" = "the first" is harmed oir not is irrelevant.
mircea_popescu: that's the animism here, the naive proposition that harm upon the wax statuette will visit the subject.
mircea_popescu: which is lulzy.
asciilifeform: the lulz comes from operating using undefined thing
asciilifeform: as in a proof where divided by 0
mircea_popescu: to me the lulz comes from the similarity with idiocy, in spite of all the pretense.
mircea_popescu: the same sort of thing as "well... french nobles had lice. just like the peasants. and died of tb"
mircea_popescu: "so then what is this nobility again ?" "oh, their blood was a differentcolor." "ic."
mircea_popescu: "rationalists" indistinguishable from flatearthists, except, perhaps, by the color of their guts ? sign me up.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4531 @ 0.00028047 = 1.2708 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 23:51:31; Adlai: well, you do become 'less yourself', until there's nothing left... although it's a more complex process than just cells dying
mircea_popescu: you become more like your "true self", which just happens to be dead.
mircea_popescu: no one would dispute the true lenin is in the transhumanist facility at dark pink plaza right ?
asciilifeform: mega-l0lz
asciilifeform: 'Ленин жил, Ленин жив, Ленин будет жить!' (TM)
nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> you become more like your "true self", which just happens to be dead. <<< oh ho ho ho, i like this
nubbins`: what an anomaly to be wiggling about!!
mircea_popescu: isn't it ?
nubbins`: christ, can't wait for it to stop
mircea_popescu: that's why you get sleep paralysis. but it doesn'ty hold.
nubbins`: get some fuckin rest
mircea_popescu: well... at least not at first.
nubbins`: ahh, that's rich
decimation: re: genetics of intelligence < the post makes a good point, in that there's nobody who can tell a story about how some genes 'cause' intelligence. But that doesn't really address the observation that when you give a test to ethnic groups A&B, the resulting distributions are different.
asciilifeform: and the twin studies - happened.
mircea_popescu: decimation why would you expect it addresses that ?
asciilifeform: !s stupidity heritable
assbot: 1 results for 'stupidity heritable' :
mircea_popescu: among other things.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: l0l where this photo from ?
nubbins`: the singularity
mircea_popescu: oh, private genetics research lab.
mircea_popescu: (there's this entire subculture of [mostly white] men that aim to raise other peopel's children)
asciilifeform: fetish ?
mircea_popescu: im not sure that's an adequate term.
decimation: cuckoldry?
mircea_popescu: the behaviour is not so much different from whatever, altruism. speech. etc.
mircea_popescu: decimation i suppose technically.
mircea_popescu: tho by now that's migrated closer to a personal relationship.
mircea_popescu: less dramatically, people adopt all the time.
nubbins`: aka the double cuckold
decimation: and always have
mircea_popescu: at any rate : expecting human behaviour to be addressed by genetics is a little like expecting food to be discussed by chemistry.
asciilifeform: ^ ahahaha there we have it
mircea_popescu: some attempts will be made, but srsly... whadda ya want. shit's hard and chemistry has other stuff to do.
asciilifeform: can still explain the behaviour of turing's apple with chemistry
mircea_popescu: for some definitions of explain.
asciilifeform: the most interesting fact about it - absolutely
mircea_popescu: that's the thing : any attempt to explain behaviour by genetics ends up bending the notion of "explain" the fuck out of place
mircea_popescu: this is damaging to the explainer.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but maybe the apples made him gay ?
asciilifeform: thinking of the kcn apple
mircea_popescu: but wouldn't you agree that had the apples made him gay, THAT would be the most interesting thing about them ?
asciilifeform: sure, let's walk with that
asciilifeform: what do we get
mircea_popescu: we get that fuckall.
decimation: well, we have a warning to others
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nubbins`: eat not thine apple
nubbins`: i developed an allergy to apple skins
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we have a hidden and unjustified jump here
nubbins`: sucks, i like apples ;/
asciilifeform: -some- behaviour is demonstrably -heritable-
asciilifeform: not same as 'behaviour can be explained [in total] by genetics'
nubbins`: didn't they retroactively expunge turing's homosexuality conviction within the past couple years
mircea_popescu: well so then.
mircea_popescu: "to explain" normally means, "all of it".
asciilifeform: in that sense hardly anything has ever been explained.
mircea_popescu: once copulation explained pregnancy, that was it , you know ?
nubbins`: took me til age 24 before it was explained that 1+1=2
nubbins`: and even that... the axioms
nubbins`: only goes down so far
asciilifeform: nubbins` owns the complete r&w 'principia' ?
nubbins`: covered sections in various number theory courses
decimation: mircea_popescu: "pregnancy comes from copulation" is a fairly workable theory
nubbins`: worst rabbit hole re:math was one winter eve i found myself thoroughly intoxicated at a party i'd wandered across
nubbins`: turned out to be the 60th bday of this philosophy prof at local uni
nubbins`: left the house ~4 hours later w/ several tomes on the philosophy of mathematics
mircea_popescu: decimation quite a ways ahead of any genetic explanations for intelligence on tap
mircea_popescu: leaving aside the differential of quality between the definitions of pregnant and intelligent.
asciilifeform: of several key types of stupidity - as solid as any explaination in e.g., electronics
nubbins`: anyway, principia, smth like ~100 pages into volume ii before they finish the proof?!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but the genetic explanation of stupidity is certainly not in dispute here.
mircea_popescu: what, down sindrome ? that's uncontroversial as it gets.
mircea_popescu: the other end of the scale tho...
asciilifeform: not even speaking of trisomies etc
mircea_popescu: note that my observation about where the gaussian's bound is not idle.
mircea_popescu: it connects to this.
asciilifeform: but of what in the english world is usually called 'shitflessness' etc
asciilifeform: *shiftlessness
mircea_popescu: not very visible, but yes, whole spittoon
nubbins`: i feel shiftlessness is much more a product of upbringing
asciilifeform: nubbins`: the twin studies -happened-
asciilifeform: can't magick them away
mircea_popescu: but he feels.
asciilifeform: and, notably, no one ever tried.
nubbins`: ^ strongly, even!
mircea_popescu: are you saying the whippets are no no2 ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, re twin studies : they're great because best we got
mircea_popescu: not because word of god, so to speak.
asciilifeform: but state of the art, which has to be dealt with as such
mircea_popescu: no contest.
asciilifeform: and not as 'lala never heard of this, so must not be relevant'
mircea_popescu: but that is an argument to sink a competing theory with,
mircea_popescu: it does not work to sink skepticism.
asciilifeform: skepticism ought to happily bob about, it doesn't need to sink
decimation: of course not, but the skeptic is still informed
mircea_popescu: yeah, skepticism will never sink, and if it does, brainbox' flooded.
mircea_popescu: anyway, back to the issue : a plethora of persuasive arguments can be made starting with genetics and ending with behaviours. however, the most commonly encountered ones are neither persuasive
mircea_popescu: nor all that intelligent or informed.
asciilifeform: what do we do next, the 'commonly encountered' variety of physics? number theory?
mircea_popescu: and in particular the race -> intelligence one has, in my experience so far, about a thousand times more often worked to illuminate the idiocy of the proponent than say anything about its intended topic.
mircea_popescu: (and yes intelligence is, by and large, a human behaviour. it's not a fucking identity.)
mircea_popescu: same difference as between being a doctor and practicing medicine.
asciilifeform: naggum had a nifty piece on this fine point
asciilifeform: but i've misplaced it
mircea_popescu: i like naggum's points.
asciilifeform: it won't run away. whoever wants, can find...
mircea_popescu: but to belabour the point : one of the principal reasons "measuring iq" as it were height is so ridiculous, is because nobody has yet had an off day for height.
nubbins`: all i'm arguing is that stupid people have kids, and their kids are given stupid food and provided with stupid stimulation and forced to interact mostly with their stupid parents and their stupid friends
mircea_popescu: im normally 6"2 but i woke with a headache and im only 4"10
decimation: whatever the causality between 'genes' and 'intelligence' might be, the story is shrouded under layers of ignorance, and it is thus good to be humble on the subject
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: strength is better analogy than height
nubbins`: if you think genetic predisposition plays a bigger part than whether you're surrounded by idiocy in your formative years, well...
asciilifeform: very simple to have an 'off day' for strength
mircea_popescu: nubbins` that won't fucking do anything. ANYTHING. you are to be traced to lucy, the stupidest chimp that ever lived.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but strength, you wiull notice, is VERY capped at the top.
mircea_popescu: we don't see that many people carrying skyscrapers around.
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asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: greater dynamic range, sure
asciilifeform: abundantly obvious
decimation: nubbins`: folks who have looked into the matter tend to disagree
nubbins`: decimation your logic has no place here
asciilifeform: incidentally, my (i don't exclusively claim it..) myelin impedance matching hypothesis - is testable.
mircea_popescu: it's not bad, tho perhaps not directly intelligence,
mircea_popescu: certainly related.
decimation: asciilifeform: reaction times?
mircea_popescu: iirc i said then, i mostly measure intelligence in person by derived units, such as reaction speeds.
asciilifeform: think analogy: picture a number of clocks
asciilifeform: complicated mechanical clocks, all quite alike, but large enough to admit some sand
asciilifeform: and still run
asciilifeform: now vary how much sand in the gears.
asciilifeform: very loose analogy for the myelin matching thing
assbot: Intelligence, Personality and Genius: The decline in general intelligence estimated from a meta-analysis of the slowing of simple reaction time ... ( )
asciilifeform: incidentally the 'sand in the gears' hypothesis has a name
asciilifeform: 'big G'
asciilifeform: or rather 'general fitness factor'
asciilifeform: i forget who first described it
mircea_popescu: << ftr, this "qualified" does exactly nothing. i dunno who thinks themselves qualified in the topic.
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 23:54:02; nubbins`: there's a large chunk of the book that could be misidentified as schizo by the unqualified observer
asciilifeform: but it adds up to, overall, taller/healthier/more decisive/intelligent in whatever sense / stronger / etc
asciilifeform: because - less 'sand'.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and blonder.
asciilifeform: 'your mileage may vary'
asciilifeform: at any rate, it was a hypothesis, and i only know of any support for a restricted version of it
mircea_popescu: << you know this could make some pretty decent technomagic folklovestories ?
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 23:54:55; asciilifeform: and then mircea_popescu walks in with a '45 and asks which one to shoot
mircea_popescu: chick falls in love with geek, he takes her home and tells her to fuck any toy in the lab except this one,
mircea_popescu: so of course she does, so now there's a copy,
mircea_popescu: davai zdreanta desdemona etc.
asciilifeform: but it threatens to make some logical sense based on the tiny size of the 'phase space' of 'healthy/intelligent/strong' vs a world of possible organism, living and dead, which is none of these
asciilifeform: (recall the genetic algorithm discussions, and basic theory of mutation overall)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform on my own guesswork it's a present but minor factor.
mircea_popescu: think about women, your head thinks about women much easier/better. general fitness factor : big tits, tall, clear eyes, wide hips, etc etc.
mircea_popescu: intelligence ?
mircea_popescu: veheheheeery vaguely related.
decimation: the intelligent one survived long enough to be presented
mircea_popescu: in some circumstances lack of intelligence is a distinctive fitting advantage.
decimation: no doubt. 'curiousity killed the cat'
asciilifeform: of intelligence, or the inevitable cost ?
asciilifeform: (it costs just like cpu costs)
mircea_popescu: well... you can now divorce these ?!
asciilifeform: well no. but it's rather like the difference between 'die in car crash' and 'die of exhaust fumes in garage'
asciilifeform: both - of car.
mircea_popescu: if survival depends on, say, spending a week in a fox hole paying the fuck attention, "intelligence", especially the dreamy "creative" sort the us is so enamoured with, is the topmost liability.
asciilifeform: hell, in that situation, you'd want to be... an insect. mosquito can bite in milliseconds; us, with our heavy circuitry, cannot ever equal this - even if limbs were short enough
mircea_popescu: actually i watched mosquitoes bite, and the head movement really resembles a tank tower.
mircea_popescu: it takes 2 seconds or so.
decimation: unless you dream up a robot ninja to fight on your behalf
mircea_popescu: decimation take your real self away from me!111
asciilifeform: perhaps i was thinking of a gnat, hm
mircea_popescu: well, scorpion, spider, etc.
mircea_popescu: plenty of good examples, no argument they move faster.
asciilifeform: the u.s. being collectively enamoured of anything that could be described as 'intelligence' is mega-news to me
mircea_popescu: ok. "sort of wankery they abusively call intelligence, cause they're dumb and ambitious" ?
asciilifeform: something like that. but now we've lost the specificity
mircea_popescu: << ironically, this would actually explain the modern age.
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 00:01:13; asciilifeform: re: teleporter: there were actually people who refused to travel on steam locomotives because the soul can't keep up and will get lost
mircea_popescu: i'd read a technopunk sf novel working on this exact premise.
asciilifeform: that would be a mega-novel, yes
asciilifeform: i've thought about it myself
gabriel_laddel: Which US is this where "intelligence" is discussed?
mircea_popescu: "and then everything failed because well... everyone was in a bureaucracy, because the souls were like loist behind"
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel reddit.
asciilifeform: perhaps somebody whose soul is still attached will write this book..
mircea_popescu: if i were 20 years younger i'd take the sluts to whatever cons on this premise.
mircea_popescu: we'd be a new sort of furry : the soulless! better than emo!
mircea_popescu: it'd prolly make a fucking tsunami of pointless.
mircea_popescu: any 16yo boys with a harem reading this ? go fer it!
mircea_popescu: << wait, joos aren't allowed to touch women ?!
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 00:04:40; Adlai: probably to prevent physical contact with female flight attendants
mircea_popescu: << i agree, the first thing i'd want to ask my long lost twin is if they wanna fuck.
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 00:04:53; jurov: i'd fuck myself. we'd only have to resort to reading /dev/random about who goes first.
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 00:07:42; nubbins`: examine the utter failure of logic by this man
decimation bids good evening
decimation: !down decimation
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nubbins`: mircea_popescu guy's protecting himself from the cemetery he's flying over
nubbins`: by... wrapping himself in clear plastic
asciilifeform: nubbins`: notice that only the 'graded for effort' hypothesis explains why the cellophane 'counts' but not the plastic in the fuselage
asciilifeform: (because, clearly, the latter was not put there by the hassid fella)
nubbins`: "i do my own plastic work"
nubbins`: it might as well be "i can fly over a cemetery as long as i'm playing tetris on a nintendo game boy"
asciilifeform: there is a little hassid enclave here where i live. they have the 'eruv' (ceremonial rope boundary) that establishes a zone where they can sorta do things on shabat
asciilifeform: the interesting thing, from where i stand is, 1) the rope 'counts' but the sidewalk it follows, or the line of trees - do not
nubbins`: seems taking once-practical advice to the point of absurdity
asciilifeform: 2) the rope is ill-maintained and often it is down or even in pieces
asciilifeform: and i have not been able to figure out why it is there on certain times but not others
mircea_popescu: nubbins` so ?
mircea_popescu: nubbins` to begin, is your position that this doesn't work or that this doesn't make sense ?
nubbins`: my position is that wtf is a plastic bag doing that the fuselage isn't
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asciilifeform: nubbins`: provenance
mircea_popescu: nubbins` so you're arguing to ignorance ?
asciilifeform: nubbins`: once you understand how their religion works, it sorta clicks
asciilifeform: it's not just a perverse kind of engineering, where it's the plastic that matters
funkenstein_: QR code attacks <-- reminds me of "snowcrash"
asciilifeform: mats: packet-in-packet attack (see also, described in that neato phrack thing you linked to, i spent all day leafing through it, you wrecker you) or even frame-shift-mutation in genetics, etc
asciilifeform: or anybody who ever jumped in the middle of x86 instruction
mats: ya.
mats: reminds me a bit about goodspeed's zigbee hax
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually that was the lulz of all time, "malware detectors". except they didn't detect stuff half-register shifted did they.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 1001 variations on that theme
asciilifeform: !s polymorphic
assbot: 2 results for 'polymorphic' :
mircea_popescu: "oh, ffcd 21aa blabla ? you mean cd31 aaetc ?"
mircea_popescu: "i dunno, never seen ffcd or 21aa in malware b4!!1"
asciilifeform: and folks still use signature-based 'detection'
mircea_popescu: myeah. because hey, enumerate badness.
asciilifeform: because 'whaddayamean i'm to be hanged for buying ibm'
asciilifeform: the funny part is that crapware artists, by and large, oblige
asciilifeform: and continue to bake idiocies readily detectable this way and not polymorphic one bit
asciilifeform: with 500kB of visual stoodio crud
mircea_popescu: the caught ones, at any rate.
asciilifeform: the intelligence of the hunter and the deer are, it seems, linked.
asciilifeform: neither finds it worthwhile to rocket far away from the other
asciilifeform: (typically0
mircea_popescu: !up mogreen
assbot: ISTANBUL: Operation to retake Tikrit from Islamic State stalled by heavy casualties, discord | Iraq | McClatchy DC ... ( )
mats: ha. called it.
mircea_popescu: check itr out, b-a outintels dod.
asciilifeform: can anyone identify the weapon in the photo? looks like recoillessrifle - but which.
mircea_popescu: alf will, true to form, magick this success away.
asciilifeform: l0l success is when they're here
mircea_popescu: no. they made their prediction, we made ours.
mircea_popescu: they lost.
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asciilifeform: wai they made a prediction ?
asciilifeform behind the times
mircea_popescu: well they did send the fucking thing eh ?
asciilifeform: does this necessarily imply a prediction ?
asciilifeform: perhaps usg sent the cannon fodder to die
mircea_popescu: nevertheless.
mats: looks like a Carl Gustav
mircea_popescu: maybe she cheated on you because she loves you.
mircea_popescu: she took the cock, she took the chances.
asciilifeform: mats: that one's shorter, no ?
mats: you're right
asciilifeform: found it, 'spg9'
asciilifeform: (СПГ-9)
assbot: Fighting Isis in Iraq: How British soldiers and other European troops are helping train the Peshmerga - Middle East - World - The Independent ... ( )
mats: a sign of sleep deprivation. night
nubbins`: k, nite
asciilifeform: incidentally, any serious amateur historian of political engineering skullduggery will enjoy an account of the life and death of the recoilless rifle in '30s ussr.
asciilifeform: (built in vast numbers, apparently all maldesigned, head engineer goes from hero - at one point, monopolizer of virtually all cannon factories - to zero - shot in the head - within 7 years)
asciilifeform: not one recoilless cannon was fired, afaik, by ussr in ww2.
asciilifeform: all melted down.
asciilifeform: it is worth noting what precisely kurchevsky (the engineer) did.
asciilifeform: went with 'conversative' design where he took ordinary cannon of whatever kind, and sawed off the breech, replacing with funnel.
asciilifeform: so kept heavy barrel
asciilifeform: and retained the unwieldy bulk
asciilifeform: (no modern recoillness cannon works this way)
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mircea_popescu: more interesting is, why did he get away with it for long enough to become a prolbem
mircea_popescu: i guess i wouldn't make a very palatable politburo member.
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cazalla: mircea_popescu: im thinking cazalla bingoboingo thestringpuller danielpbarron right off the bat, cazalla lemme know who else should go in the magic dozen. <<< pete_dushenski, PeterL might be interested, personally i think while nubbins` would do a great job, it's something i would look at once, put in cupboard and forget about
ben_vulpes: mats: that chip whisperer is going to hurt some butts.
ben_vulpes: <nubbins`> silkscreened business cards are ++ << lmk when you pony up for dies and presses
ben_vulpes: <trinque> jurov: had the thought once in meditation that I was always... hm... thinking everything I've ever experienced all the time << i've not read it but this was the proust routine, yeah?
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assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15200 @ 0.00028072 = 4.2669 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10565 @ 0.00028072 = 2.9658 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [05:48] but in other news, << you're repeating yourself
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12000 @ 0.00029398 = 3.5278 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 05:11:45; mircea_popescu: << wait, joos aren't allowed to touch women ?!
assbot: The Brick Testament ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13550 @ 0.00029398 = 3.9834 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72871 @ 0.00029554 = 21.5363 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: Introducing Cryptosteel: The World's Safest Cold Wallet Storage - ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37200 @ 0.00029213 = 10.8672 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: lulzy
jurov: and the vid, too, looks like punishment for mircea's slavegirl :D
jurov: and wtf it needs $/@/euro/pound symbols?
jurov: !up dEBRUYNE
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37800 @ 0.0002909 = 10.996 BTC [-]
RagnarDanneskjol: trinque - i am occasionally using the nick for continued development on punks ver. if anyone here's partial to the name I can pass it over. Wow that xm42
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12434 @ 0.00028939 = 3.5983 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36066 @ 0.00028008 = 10.1014 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15500 @ 0.00027951 = 4.3324 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52780 @ 0.00027943 = 14.7483 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47200 @ 0.00028019 = 13.225 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46330 @ 0.00027847 = 12.9015 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4300 @ 0.00027643 = 1.1886 BTC [-]
[]bot: Bet created: "Gold to drop under $1000 before August 2015"
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Gold to drop under $1000 before August 2015" Odds: 95(Y):5(N) by coin, 95(Y):5(N) by weight. Total bet: 1.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,999.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7548 @ 0.00027643 = 2.0865 BTC [-]
mats: >> "Pursuant to 28 C.F.R. § 16.8(d) and (f) , we initiated business submitter notification provide the winning bidder (Tim Draper) an opportunity to object to disclosure of the purchase price. Mr. Draper submitted written objections to disclosure. "
assbot: Ow! -- ... ( )
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 21:10:47; felipelalli: mircea_popescu: Where can I find objective arguments against BTCJam? As a lending service and reputation system? And what are the alternatives for P2P lending or we don't have? They have 113,000 users, should they be ignored?
assbot: Logged on 18-03-2015 05:09:03; mircea_popescu: " Content preview: Dear Alare Kool, thank you for registering at Bitstamp exchange service! At this point you have just contributed a great deal to future of decentralized monetary market."
mircea_popescu: they have no users. just because the whatsapp scam was pushed by fb on the grounds of "users" (by the way, did the fantabulous "growth rate" continue after the acquisition ?) does not mean that the same sort of fraud will either work again in the future or is in itself any sort of value.
nubbins`: alare kool... from bangladesh?!!?
mircea_popescu: i have nfi.
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 21:34:56; BingoBoingo: I have the most intense hangover
mircea_popescu: << layflat for one volume would run you about 1200ish
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 21:40:35; ascii_field: not one can do 'lay flat' cover, for instance
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 21:44:19; danielpbarron: basically anything ascii wants in book form, I would probably also want
nubbins`: incidentally, here's a layflat binding
assbot: Cisco posts kit to empty houses to dodge NSA chop shops • The Register ... ( )
mircea_popescu: !up Tetra113
nubbins`: as you can see, the biggest thing is to not adhere the spine of the book block
nubbins`: downside is that the book block is now much less securely held in place
nubbins`: one cm-thick strip of glue on each outer page
Tetra113: good afternoon
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 21:48:38; ascii_field: in the sense that a typical artisan binder would probably react to my laser suggestion the same way my musical friends react to the suggestion of connecting my air compressor to the tuba
assbot: Joc erotic terminat tragic ... ( )
nubbins`: "after a colleague introduced them to the anus compressor hose"
nubbins`: dat machine translate
mircea_popescu: nubbins` 50 yo blue collar woman went after shift with coworkers, had compressed air hose stuck up ass.
Tetra113: i was spending alot of time reading about bitcoin shares/stocks
kakobrekla: !s french block
assbot: 0 results for 'french block' :
nubbins`: i wonder had she ever seen an air compressor in use before?
assbot: French Government Starts Blocking Websites With Views The Gov't Doesn't Like | Techdirt ... ( )
mircea_popescu: Tetra113 where ?
mircea_popescu: nubbins` well it was her place of work eh.
nubbins`: specifically, had she ever seen the release valve opened on a full one?
Tetra113: mircea_popescu, mostly sites that appear written by you lol
Tetra113: but anyway
nubbins`: if so, why in the world did she think her ass was a good place for that to happen?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i don't get it, is the french govt running an isp ?!
nubbins`: they're apparently running all of them 8)
mircea_popescu: nubbins` i dunno man, to me it's the crowning achievement of a particular sort of technopunk, which is what 50 years of soviet industry really is.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` you know just like who ? just like putin, except not the real one, the factitious version that "is holding country back" jurov was talking about.
kakobrekla: idk imma guess they just change the native dns and using an alternative one fixes this
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla used to work in china. for the first coupla years.
nubbins`: given that more people are familiar with changing DNS servers as a result of wanting to watch american netflix, you'll see the turnaround on these things get shorter
nubbins`: (you'd be amazed how many people who don't know what DNS stands for know what it does these days)
danielpbarron: height=290070 vs height=214008
Tetra113: mircea_popescu, how does one get in on bitcoin company shares?
mircea_popescu: what's that one trying to achieve ?
Tetra113: profit?
Tetra113: hehe
mircea_popescu: nubbins` noit that amazed, history of internet.
nubbins`: guess so hey
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62700 @ 0.00027537 = 17.2657 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: you'd be amazed how many monkeys click the blue e, too.
nubbins`: soon it won't be blue or an e!
mircea_popescu: the monkeys ain't going anywhere.
nubbins`: nope
nubbins`: meantime, if anyone happens to have come across a guide to Smyth Sewing (re: bookbinding), would be forever in your debt
mircea_popescu: i wonder idly if anyone even realises that the turing machine space has by now been explored MUCH more in depth than the human genetic space, for instance.
nubbins`: remarkably hard to find solid info on
mircea_popescu: ie, we've built a much larger % of the computers that could be than there's been people alive as a % of the people that could be.
nubbins`: i'd imagine so
assbot: Process: Smyth Sewn Book Binding on Vimeo ... ( )
chetty: <Tetra113> mircea_popescu, how does one get in on bitcoin company shares?// bitcoin company???????????
nubbins`: have seen that video
nubbins`: shows nothing
mircea_popescu: well that's all i had :D
mircea_popescu: "In fact, all the boring normal bugs are _way_ more important, just because
mircea_popescu: there's a lot more of them. I don't think some spectacular security hole
mircea_popescu: should be glorified or cared about as being any more "special" than a
mircea_popescu: random spectacular crash due to bad locking."
mircea_popescu: ahh, the sweet innocence of presnowden.
nubbins`: on the surface, it looks like a plain kettle-stitch binding, with the addition of those stress strips
Tetra113: chetty, yes obviously there has to be some company generating the value??
mircea_popescu: the crash is only important if it can be used to poison the stack. otherwise... it's just annoying.
mircea_popescu: Tetra113 so then find them and buy chunks.
nubbins`: Tetra113 ^
nubbins`: generally, one gets in on shares by buying them
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 22:02:49; danielpbarron: one of the best places to get like-new Bibles is a used book store
Tetra113: so nubbins` where did you buy them?
nubbins`: Tetra113 what is "them"?
Tetra113: shares?
nubbins`: shares of what?
nubbins`: microsoft? cisco?
nubbins`: figure out your question in full before you start asking it, maybe
mircea_popescu: Tetra113 seriously, this isn't etrade in a different color scheme.
mircea_popescu: etrade only exists because that model's practically dead.
mircea_popescu: << well maybe one day you run into a people. it's not impossible, even in tasmania!
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 07:35:50; cazalla: mircea_popescu: im thinking cazalla bingoboingo thestringpuller danielpbarron right off the bat, cazalla lemme know who else should go in the magic dozen. <<< pete_dushenski, PeterL might be interested, personally i think while nubbins` would do a great job, it's something i would look at once, put in cupboard and forget about
mircea_popescu: !s tumblr_mimit0y2OI1rpyycwo1_1280.jpg
assbot: 0 results for 'tumblr_mimit0y2OI1rpyycwo1_1280.jpg' :
danielpbarron: i was planning on handing them out at porcfest as i attempt to interview people
mircea_popescu: lies ben_vulpes :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34398 @ 0.00027468 = 9.4484 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron cool plan.
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 12:59:54; mats: >> "Pursuant to 28 C.F.R. § 16.8(d) and (f) , we initiated business submitter notification provide the winning bidder (Tim Draper) an opportunity to object to disclosure of the purchase price. Mr. Draper submitted written objections to disclosure. "
assbot: Withdrawals halted as stolen evolution coins make their way to BTC-e : Bitcoin ... ( )
mircea_popescu: may be yeah.
mircea_popescu: doesn't seem a terribly legit reason to stop withdrawals, who knows if they're piggybacking on it to excuse their own failure.
danielpbarron: it's a horrible reason to stop withdrawals
danielpbarron: and the only thing it hurts is themselves
mircea_popescu: so go for it.
mircea_popescu: in any case this "we attack bitcoin fungibility and expect to remain in business" angle has to be dispelled.
mircea_popescu: no one ever will survive trying to make one bitcoin unequal to another bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: this is a capital offense. mass arson, rape and murder is a tea party by comparison.
nubbins`: i wonder will they halt withdrawals when draper's stolen SR bitcoins start moving to exchanges?
nubbins`: by my count, guy's got a hundred bucks belonging to me
nubbins`: actually, that'd be an interesting trace.
mircea_popescu: but this is exactly it, usg trying to insert itself into the process by "blessing bitcoins"
mircea_popescu: much like you know, "you can'tr fuck this woman until this old man has sprinkled water on her"
mircea_popescu: "orly ? "
nubbins`: you can't be in charge until you fill out this paperwork!
mircea_popescu: "how about you fill in the paperwork while i keep on being in charge."
danielpbarron: Update: BTC-e admins have reached out to Coin Fire to state that withdrawals have been re-enabled and that they have no further comments regarding the situation moving forward regarding this or any other security issue.
danielpbarron: is it still an article if they tapped out?
mircea_popescu: only if you absolutely want to.
mircea_popescu: "btc-e briefly stupid this morning", i guess.
mircea_popescu: it wouldn't necessartily be much more than editorializing, up to cazalla if he wants more of that or more news to balance things out.
danielpbarron: the story might be all the FEDs that swarm to reddit saying things like "see bitcoin isn't anonymous you better just use dollars!"
mircea_popescu: this is not terribly factual.
mircea_popescu: not every poltroonish german's a gestapo agent, not every poltroonish soviet's a kgb agent and not every reddit idjit's working for teh soup.
nubbins`: anyone happen to have any of the btc addresses used for the first sr auction?
mircea_popescu: 1F1tAaz5x1HUXrCNLbtMDqcw6o5GNn4xqX ?
mircea_popescu: going to 1Ez69SnzzmePmZX3WpEzMKTrcBF2gpNQ55, never spent.
mircea_popescu: since w/e, 9 months ago.
funkenstein_: btc-e grabs some easy publicity perhaps
mircea_popescu: sort-of like putting cockroaches in your pizza for easy publicity.
funkenstein_: so no bitcoin numismatics then? 2 BTC for my coin which was mined in 2010?
danielpbarron: how does that even work? you sell the private key?
mircea_popescu: nubbins` is the local numismatist
funkenstein_: no i just transfer it as usual
nubbins`: i'm not sure that's the word you're looking for
danielpbarron: then you'd destroy all those coin-days which i thought was the thing you were trying to sell
nubbins`: pedigree coins
funkenstein_: not coin days but mining origin
mircea_popescu: << best story ever, 10/10 would hire indian excel expert to literaturate again.
assbot: dpaste: 087PNN7 ... ( )
nubbins`: funkenstein_ no better than fresh-minted coins?
funkenstein_: maybe you'd rather pay more for fresh minted coins, i hear some people prefer them
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62900 @ 0.00027742 = 17.4497 BTC [+] {2}
funkenstein_: based on hash rental rates
mircea_popescu: << you know this is easily the most disjointed, ridiculous and overall pointless piece of crap. "out of whack" three times ? the whole thing's an exercise in content-free derpage.
funkenstein_: mircea_popescu, i thought it was interesting, but i guess not enough to finish it
mircea_popescu: there's some reasonable if banal shit floating around in a sea of very annoying nonsense. wtf is "out of whack" even supposed to mean, and since when is an ipad a better model of computing than a desktop.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, whatevs.
funkenstein_: lol sounds about right
funkenstein_: We're beginning to come to grips with the idea that your brain is not this well-organized hierarchical control system where everything is in order, a very dramatic vision of bureaucracy. <-- i liked that part
mircea_popescu: yes, obviously, people working on computational theories of human intelligence are basically correct and broadly irrelevant, yes people who were working on this 30 years ago are too stupiud to follow it, because hey, they didn't grow up with a computer, like i did, and yes culture consists of a lot of fleas and relatively little treasures.
mircea_popescu: and yes the brain's not a leviathan. nothing is. that only exists as a first line of fantasy, no place ever worked like that except in the bookish literotica of state-wankers.
nubbins`: yeah tim draper owes me at least a few bucks
mircea_popescu: about as sensible as the "paradise" of xtians, or ragnarok or w/e.
funkenstein_: some testing notes for mod6
assbot: dpaste: 1EP63W5: release notes, by funkenstein ... ( )
assbot: The Dollar Market and a Game Theory Example | Free your Frass ... ( )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23200 @ 0.00027609 = 6.4053 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22973 @ 0.0002759 = 6.3383 BTC [-] {2}
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Gold to drop under $1000 before August 2015" Odds: 50(Y):50(N) by coin, 50(Y):50(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,907.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51450 @ 0.00027456 = 14.1261 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27800 @ 0.00028 = 7.784 BTC [+] {3}
nubbins`: "This second pillar of Legion Theory might appear to be an unnecessary complication to our model. Dare we say, an “intellectual wank”. "
nubbins`: i like these guys
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell funkenstein_ could that thing stop being disqus
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ;;google "Legion Theory"
gribble: Legion Theory - Theory & Psychology - Sage Publications: <>; Legion Theory 1 Legion Theory: A meta-psychology Mark L ...: <>; Legion Theory: <>
thestringpuller: lol slush adds css to site everyone is like "this is best site ever"
thestringpuller: smoke and mirrors make the derps go oooh and ahh
fluffypony: OMG I MUST SWITCH
thestringpuller: ^- pretty good impression fluffypony
fluffypony: I try
fluffypony: my redditard is a little rusty
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9458 @ 0.00028129 = 2.6604 BTC [+]
Adlai: dogecoin rallied after they added css3 moon rocket upvote animations
fluffypony: so this is good for bitcoin?
Adlai: the next difficulty adjustment is critical
fluffypony: lol Adlai
danielpbarron: thestringpuller, they resumed withdrawls
danielpbarron: someone should tell the exit scammers about bitbit as an option for mixing
Adlai: how is that any good? if you know somebody's betting address, you can see their winnings on the site
danielpbarron: yeah but you can't see it on the block chain
mats: there are private bets
nubbins`: so will compile everything up to bitcoind itself
nubbins`: at which point incompatibilities in ld crop up and grind the thing to a halt
kakobrekla: private bets are public, just need a password to request a deposit address
kakobrekla: also, there are none.
kakobrekla: i dont recall if there ever was an approved one
assbot: Casascius 10BTC Silver Round /w Gold B ... ( )
mircea_popescu: <Adlai> how is that any good? if you know somebody's betting address, you can see their winnings on the site << not how that works.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i dun recall one either.
mircea_popescu: not sure why we put it in, but i think it was the usual "customer request" stuff
Adlai: let's say i've identified a certain address A as coins that are "not welcome here". i see it move coin to address B, so i sniff around and notice that B is a deposit address on bitbet, with winnings going to C. i add C to the list of unwelcome money.
Adlai is equally amused from "lalala taint doesn't exist" and "lalala bitcoin doesn't exist"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12850 @ 0.00027392 = 3.5199 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: you really should read the logs, this was discussed ad nauseam.
mircea_popescu: address A with your "taint" may lose to address B. what now ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12850 @ 0.00027392 = 3.5199 BTC [-]
Adlai: then the idiot using a betting site as a tumbler, got what they deserved
mircea_popescu: it's not a matter of "lalala taint doesn't exit". taint exists exactly as much and exactly for the reasons god "exists"
mircea_popescu: some idiots can't cope otherwise.
mircea_popescu: Adlai didja eat dumb this morning ? i put 100 btc on one side, of your taint, and 100 btc on the other side, you don't know about. if one wins now you've gotta taint 2x as manby btc, if the other wins you lost track.
Adlai sighs
mircea_popescu: but really, the notion of taint is only recurring because people are stupid, and do not wish to think. otherwise, taint is meaningless.
Adlai: taint in as meaningful as the person you're trying to do business with thinks it is
Adlai: but whether or not it's meaningful to a specific incident, it still exists
mircea_popescu: it exists to the degree the madonna-whore exists.
mircea_popescu: yes, some idiots have trouble with reality, replace it with neurosis. this to the detriment of them and anyone trusting them.
mircea_popescu: like any other stereotype, like the nigger thief/rapist, the dumb woman, the jew cooking christian children etc, it "exists" in the minds of the stupid,
mircea_popescu: and it recurs because stupid is really a very narrow space.
Adlai: no. you're confusing between value in the minds of people holding a bill, and fingerprints on its surface. one exists in the mind, the other is evidence. it could be misleading evidence, but it is there.
mircea_popescu: taint != fingerprints.
mircea_popescu: in that fingerprints are on the bill, and taint is in the mind, wholly imagined.
Adlai: do we agree that utxos exist?
Adlai: ok, what i'm calling "taint" is the tree constructed by recursively collecting the inputs that led in to each utxo
Adlai: a better word for this could be "signing history", but whatever it is, it exists. you can ask what the history of any utxo is, and you get a graph of signatures
Adlai: pander to idiots by misrepresenting this as taint(address1,address2) = percentage
Adlai: it's much more complicated than a single number, same as you can't scalarize "trust" - but taint as i've defined it exists, in the blockchain - outside of the mind.
mircea_popescu: no, what you're calling taint is a particularly dumb implementation of "smart contracts", ie, overloading txn with "meaning" that's really in your own head. see also
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 21:32:58; fluffypony: "release the money to mircea_popescu if I send the money to mircea_popescu" is about the sum total of it
Adlai: uh what?
Adlai: this has nothing to do with it
mircea_popescu: uniquely among dumb implementation of "smart contracts", this doesn't even involve the actual parties to the txn, but third parties.
mircea_popescu: you wish. it's exactly what it is.
assbot: Logged on 14-02-2015 18:06:59; mircea_popescu: lol kay.
mircea_popescu: the "signing history" is entirely meaningless. the TOTAL information it conveys is already conveyed, and spent. there is NO MORE in there, at all, nothing whatsoever.
Adlai: lalala!
mircea_popescu: hey, what can i tell you.
Adlai: "i understand what you're saying and insist on attacking a strawman"
nubbins`: Adlai
Adlai: nubbins`
mircea_popescu: i understand what you are saying, and i also understand why it's stupid. you have the option to pretend like you don't see it, or not. nothing i can do thar.
nubbins`: perhaps i can explain this succinctly, as i had this same convo some time ago
nubbins`: let's use an example
assbot: BitBet - Bitcoin to surpass Berkshire as an investment :: 1121.15 B (20%) on Yes, 4393.47 B (80%) on No | closed 1 month 4 days ago ... ( )
nubbins`: examine the first "no" bet, which won 0.05280995 btc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.0002726 = 2.7533 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: input address is 16u2vFY3w6j18KZ6WxtiJpGeZfXnyyK7NM
nubbins`: payout address is 1F3fzDm5yM5dsPmP9andV2UJgSvrsLHXXm
nubbins`: here's the link between the two:
assbot: BitIodine - Find paths ... ( )
assbot: BitBet - Bitcoin to surpass Berkshire as an investment :: 1121.15 B (20%) on Yes, 4393.47 B (80%) on No | closed 1 month 4 days ago ... ( )
nubbins`: so now you're left with... some random betting website that says the two addresses are owned by the same entity, with no further evidence to back it up
nubbins`: that's not a link
nubbins`: i could just create a static copy of bitbet w/ a web crawler and create all the "links" i want
nubbins`: does that mean they exist?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9250 @ 0.00027237 = 2.5194 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: i very much doubt that after he ignored the "if one wins now you've gotta taint 2x as manby btc, if the other wins you lost track." bit he's in a position to grok this one, but hey.
mircea_popescu watches curiously.
nubbins`: there's nothing on the blockchain to link the two addresses
nubbins`: and if there's nothing on the blockchain to link them
nubbins`: then you're just trusting the word of some guy who runs a website.
Adlai: there are a bunch of different concepts which are getting wrapped up together as "taint" so let's stop using that word, it's about as helpful as "jew"
mircea_popescu: can we move to "celestial teapot" ?
nubbins`: okay
mircea_popescu: (pls do not lalala-ignore my celestial teapot, it triggers me)
nubbins`: so let's go back to unwelcome money
mircea_popescu: teapot money ?
nubbins`: why is 1F3fzDm5yM5dsPmP9andV2UJgSvrsLHXXm unwelcome money? because it's listed as an output address on
trinque: RagnarDanneskjol | trinque - i am occasionally using the nick for continued development on punks ver. << no problemo; deedbot- works for me
mircea_popescu: fucking hell, "unwelcome money" is about as self-consistent as "human dignity" or "representative democracy"
Adlai: the "this is just text on a betting website" doesn't get the 'electric anthill' any further from your anus
nubbins`: groan
Adlai: the "..." *defense
Adlai: ie, the information is there, should somebody wish to act on it
nubbins`: so then why don't we just ask mp to create a dummy bet page, and list tim draper's stash as the output?
nubbins`: his coins will be ruined
nubbins`: right?
mircea_popescu: Adlai are you discussing rule of law or rule of thugs ?
Adlai: not if he doesn't touch the winnings
nubbins`: now you're talking about electric anthills
mircea_popescu: cause i am really not interested in persuading thugs of anything through any method other than clubbing to death.
Adlai: electric anthill = rule of thugs
nubbins`: WHAT WINNINGS?
mircea_popescu: so then why is ANY oif it relevant lol.
assbot: Bitcoin Address 1F3fzDm5yM5dsPmP9andV2UJgSvrsLHXXm ... ( )
nubbins`: show me where the "winnings" were transferred
mircea_popescu: obviously whatever random thug is going to make randomly unsubstantiated claims and pretend like they hold water. so what of it ?
nubbins`: all i see is some random coin moving around
mircea_popescu: this isn't something to be approached rationally.
Adlai: if you know that an enemy is profiling you, one approach is simply to evade the profile
nubbins`: Adlai a random website taking two random unlinked transactions and placing them side-by-side on a random page does not constitute even the /scent/ of proof
mircea_popescu: Adlai never interrupt the enemy while he's making a mistake.
nubbins`: i don't know how simpler to put it
mircea_popescu: let 'em "profile" until they fall over.
mircea_popescu: i guess it's "good for the economy". heck, they're tracking "uniques", for all the good that did anyone. we still have to see the extra ounce of soap or w/e that was sold because of it, but hey.
nubbins`: this is like pasting up a leaflet that says "main street intersects 3rd avenue" and then arguing that's the intersection you lost your wallet, even though the map says impossible
nubbins`: because main and 3rd run parallel
Adlai: one approach to combating terrorism is to refuse to be terrorized, on a societal level. another, on an individual level, is not to "ask for it". these are not mutually exclusive.
nubbins`: "but the leaflet says this intersection exists, so we must investigate the crime"
nubbins`: geez, where'd the counter-argument go
mircea_popescu: Adlai wait, what ?
mircea_popescu: what you're describing is the exact avenue to encourage terrorism.
trinque: look at how she was dressed; the slut was asking for it -> niqab
nubbins`: is the intersection of these two approaches to STFU and take whatever happens?
nubbins`: do you measure your other-cheek-turning in x1000 rpm or what?
Adlai: in the case of 'taint', it's: treat bitcoin as fungible, but don't make life easier for those who don't
nubbins`: <+Adlai> there are a bunch of different concepts which are getting wrapped up together as "taint" so let's stop using that word, it's about as helpful as "jew"
nubbins`: try again
nubbins`: protip: if you can't state your position...
Adlai used that word intentionally
mircea_popescu: im pretty sure no-ones making life easier for idiots, here.
nubbins`: my being here is probably making life harder for at least a handful of people
mircea_popescu: hence the bitbet model, hence the reusing of addresses etc etc, numerous specific measures to hinder the little solace idiots a la power rangers etc are trying to give the "defungibilize bitcoin" party.
mircea_popescu: not that any of these are critical, but yes, some hopes are fun to ruin.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80218 @ 0.00027598 = 22.1386 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: occasionally i burn fun-sized blocks of btc just to make things a bit more tangly
asciilifeform: the "this is just text on a betting website" doesn't get the 'electric anthill' any further from your anus << aha. this was also my objection, if anyone recalls.
asciilifeform: list tim draper's stash as the output? his coins will be ruined << no, they won't. because he's aryan.
asciilifeform: are you discussing rule of law or rule of thugs << thugs
asciilifeform: not interested in persuading thugs of anything through any method other than clubbing to death << what exterminator do i call. we're overrun.
Adlai: G.BUST
asciilifeform: random thug is going to make randomly unsubstantiated claims << here lies the boojum. it isn't unsubstantiated. mr thug is looking for which arse to stuff the soldering iron in, rather than trying to prove something to a jury
asciilifeform: the info on, e.g., 'bitbet' www, -could- be random garbage - but it -isn't-
asciilifeform: this isn't, again, a jurist's 'reasonable doubt' standard
asciilifeform: it's thug logic, and some of us live in thugschwitz
nubbins`: then i guess you better not use bit(bet/coin)
asciilifeform waits for mircea_popescu to recite the proverbial 'if it hurts, don't do that' doctoring.
mod6: <+funkenstein_> some testing notes for mod6 << thanks for the testing notes!
assbot: dpaste: 1EP63W5: release notes, by funkenstein ... ( )
danielpbarron: oh mod6 just the guy i want to see
danielpbarron: how would i go about compiling your bitcoind for macppc?
mod6: <+nubbins`> so will compile everything up to bitcoind itself << ah! ok. log/breadcrumbs help here : log output with uname -a and other important info is good to capture for a solid bug report.
mod6: thanks for testing nubbins`
mod6: danielpbarron: hmm. well, first, you'd have to get the libs to build for the correct arch. does mac still use ppc? thought it was x86? but either way, you get the libs built, and then there might be some tweaks that can be done to get the makefile into shape for osx or w/e.
mod6 looks
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33835 @ 0.00027237 = 9.2156 BTC [-]
danielpbarron: i have some old macs
mod6: ah so PPC
mod6: well, we'd have to spend some time just making sure we have the correct configure/compile flags set for openssl/bdb/boost and then create a patch or derivative of for ppc-mac
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53478 @ 0.00027683 = 14.8043 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: then a makefile.osx would have to be modified and re-added to the package once working.
mod6: im probably least clue'd on the mac side. if I had an environment to play on for a while, i could probably get it to work.
assbot: Noobs can pwn world's most popular BIOSes in two minutes • The Register ... ( )
mod6: but others might have faster/better-luck/more knowledge on that than ole mod6
mod6: << so it says that osx is supported here, but does this only indicate that it supports x86 of OSX?
mod6: looks like it :/
danielpbarron: what about VAX ?
assbot: OpenBSD/vax ... ( )
danielpbarron: OpenBSD still supports this for the purpose of finding bugs that would otherwise go unnoticed on modern speedy systems
mod6: eh, i'm not sure on VAX either. i've never used it. it doesn't look like boost supports it.
mod6: but maybe someday we can get builds/patches created to build/configure for these seperate arch's. who knows.
assbot: Absolute OpenBSD, 2nd Edition: UNIX for the Practical Paranoid - Michael W. Lucas - Google Boeken ... ( )
danielpbarron: << for those who hate google
mod6: yeah. ok. so supporting stuff like VAX/Amiga/SGI/Sparc etc are going to take time and resources ... maybe someday we get there, who knows. but first we just wanna get it working for like x86 obsd, and other Tier1 platforms first.
mod6: heck, i'd love to get an R.I. running on an UltraSPARC II box or something.
mod6: it's just not time well spent for me atm since no one even has that stuff any more. :]
danielpbarron: yeah obviously get it working on whatever most people use these days
mod6: i saw thay you're getting close to 300k blocks on pogo, that's great work. keep it up!
danielpbarron: and if you liked that paragraph i quoted there, it's from "Absolute OpenBSD" by Michael W. Lucas
mod6: i feel like the pogo is hugely important for getting a large amount of nodes out there with, that's really exciting.
danielpbarron: i own this book and recommend it to others
mod6: i've gotta get one going here myself.
mod6: yeah I read the two paragraphs there "portability" and "power".
danielpbarron: apparently you can read the book on google? idk how that works
mod6: it seems like a decent read. i feel like i my have read that book like a million-internet years ago.
danielpbarron: says you can buy it for 30+ USD on the side
mod6: im old-school. i like real books.
mod6: but yeah, i've certainly seen it in stores.
danielpbarron: maybe it's because that particular section is part of the pre-page numbers section
danielpbarron: roman numeral page numbers
mod6: yeah, i saw that. usually on-line, you get a certain amount of sections to preview.
mod6: (for free)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's no relation between addresses and identities.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: except when a man is sitting on a stake, and they have his decrypted wallet ?
mod6: huh, weird, this one looks like you can read a lot of it...
mircea_popescu: but this is ex post facto.
asciilifeform: or, say, sr is busted and a number of addresses turns up there. then link between them and sr.
asciilifeform: am i missing something ?
mircea_popescu: "them" addresses. so ?
mircea_popescu: you gonna arrest an address ?
mircea_popescu: "The point is less about how vendors don't fix the problems, and more how the vendors' fixes are going un-applied by users, corporations, and governments." << orly. how about the point is all about how "vendors" create bugs.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.00027237 = 4.4941 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: need the magic eyeglasses to see that point, apparently
asciilifeform: because nobody but us appears to
asciilifeform: 'apply fixes, fixes, now!111!111'
mircea_popescu: "The LightEater attack would take an unskilled attacker such as a maid or border guard two minutes of physical access to a target laptop."
mircea_popescu: anyway, since this "taint" bs keeps popping up, maybe a retrospective is a good idea. like
assbot: Logged on 13-06-2014 02:34:16; mircea_popescu: anyway, the fact that bitcoin is not actually traceable, and all the sophistry of taint can at most produce persuasion is one of the largest points of pressure applied by bitcoin to human society. it may result in the "reasonable doubt" standard being taken out.
mircea_popescu: and where the heck's that 2013 bitbet discussion
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2014 16:43:16; mircea_popescu: since you can by design make zero-delta bets, and since the fee is 1%... bitbet is partly the reason why mixer services sort-of died last year, i'd guess.
asciilifeform: re: bios: every portable computer i've opened in the past decade or so had the system bios stored in an eight-legged spi eeprom. one of the legs is a write-enable. in principle, not so hard to desolder & ground it.
assbot: Guidance : There Is No Such Thing As Bitcoin Taint. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: whats the typo ?
danielpbarron: Retarded pieces like what Matonis is retweeting of late (shame on you man, seriously) are powerless in this matter, << links to trilema instead of twitter
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2014 19:47:58; mircea_popescu: why "you" ?
mircea_popescu: ah yes danielpbarron has it.
assbot: Guidance : There Is No Such Thing As Bitcoin Taint. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: anyone guess what that hinted at ?
danielpbarron: USG asking MPEx if so-and-so is a customer?
danielpbarron: or if such-and-such a bet was from whatever exit scam ?
assbot: Interacting with fiat institutions, a guide pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
danielpbarron: or uh.. USG guy joins IRC and identifies himself as such
mircea_popescu: << and since we're digging through logs... remember back when the scam foundation was "giving generous grants" ?
assbot: Logged on 25-04-2014 17:49:10; mircea_popescu: "After scoring a major grant awarded by the Bitcoin Foundation, Coinpunk’s beta version is finally available. The project, which is being developed by the veteran startup founder Kyle Drake, intends to build the first fully open-source, self-hosted do-it-yourself Bitcoin wallet service that you can run on your own server."
danielpbarron: signs message with GPG key hosted on a .gov
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: thank you for the answers and the link. I'll have a look on it before comment again.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40600 @ 0.00027624 = 11.2153 BTC [+]
nubbins`: i'll probably get a makefile.osx done up at some point
nubbins`: in order for it to compile all the deps, there's only a couple trivial changes to make
nubbins`: s/sha256sum/shasum -a 256/ etc
nubbins`: s/MSG_NOSIGNAL/SO_NOSIGPIPE/ in irc.cpp and net.cpp
nubbins`: 'bout it
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: just one question mark: do you call fraud what does not have the "min. quality expected for that service" or something else?
nubbins`: mod6 the rest of the issues seem to be differences between bsd/osx 'ld' and linux 'ld'
nubbins`: flags missing etc
mircea_popescu: felipelalli there's a difference between making cars as in, making a trabant, making cars as in, making a cardboard cut-out of a car, and making cars as in, making ford pintos, which explode killing their passengers.
nubbins`: mostly surrounding the static-build part of it, fwiw
nubbins`: *static-link
mircea_popescu: the main problem in commerce is that the most dangerous of these is the last, and the most readily identified by the consumer is the first.
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: got it!
felipelalli: makes sense.
mircea_popescu: so you know, "it seems to be working" is a very bad heuristic for stuff like this.
mircea_popescu: the fact that it's not intuitively obvious is not accidental, but part of the problem.
mircea_popescu: the only similar situation i can imagine is self medication in medicine, where person goes to pharmacy swallows random pill for random ailment.
mircea_popescu: it "seems to be working" because placebo effect, a sugar pill "seems to be working", and then six months later guy with tb is dead of iodine poisoning or w/e.
felipelalli: but sometimes is hard to point objectivally where is the "bomb" inside the car. Sometimes we have just some clues. And they'll know only after explode.
felipelalli: the same to your pharmacy example.
felipelalli: you can say "this box seems weird" (like violated e.g.) but you'll only know after die.
felipelalli: I read your BTCJam article on trilema
felipelalli: and I didn't find anything very objective, but I guess you're trying to find clues that points something is weird. But after using the system, you can understand for example how joke is they reputation system.
felipelalli: is *their
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: a P2P lending system totally based on OTC WoT system would you consider a fraud as well or it could be something good?
felipelalli: I mean, rabbit out of this hat or not? This type of service is lost case?
thestringpuller: felipelalli: the scam is that reputation is built nominally on btcjam vs. WoT
thestringpuller: another scam is the repayment rate
thestringpuller: it's just scam on top of scam
thestringpuller: !up vorandrew
vorandrew: thanks... the problem with p2p lending - it one sided market
vorandrew: for example.. I wan to get loan... I want to get $95 and repay $100 in 2 months
vorandrew: If somebody can bet money that I will not pay it back - it will be incentive
vorandrew: for example bid/ask for Mr.X loan is .89-0.93
vorandrew: means he wants to sell his debt for 93 cents a dollar
vorandrew: and somebody wants to buy his debt for 89 cents a dollar
vorandrew: let's say I'm sure he is not going to repay
vorandrew: If I have opportunity to put aside with escrow 1 dollar and sell his debt for 89 cents
vorandrew: I will be risking 11 cents if he is gonna repay
vorandrew: and 89 cents in profit in case he is in default
vorandrew: so this BTCJAM (or any other one way market)
vorandrew: is kind of pump and dump scheme
vorandrew: you repay all year just to get max rating
vorandrew: and boom! - just default on 660K BTC :)
vorandrew: now imagine - 1 day before debt expiration - prices should be near 0.99
vorandrew: risking 1 cent in order to get 99 - not to shabby risk/reward ratio
asciilifeform walks in and #b-a is about... assets! wonders if he fell into a time warp
thestringpuller: asciilifeform is actually the flash
thestringpuller: and ran to fast and it now in 2012
assbot: Odin's birthday celebrated by social media supporters - Toronto - CBC News ... ( )
mod6: <+nubbins`> mod6 the rest of the issues seem to be differences between bsd/osx 'ld' and linux 'ld' << ah ok, yeah.
nubbins`: what happens next year?
vorandrew: ;;price
gribble: Error: "price" is not a valid command.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: mega-disappointment
asciilifeform: -that-'s odin!?!
assbot: Technical Q&A QA1118: Statically linked binaries on Mac OS X ... ( )
nubbins`: admittedly not sure if related ^
nubbins`: asciilifeform right?
asciilifeform: 'Apple does not support statically linked binaries on Mac OS X. A statically linked binary assumes binary compatibility at the kernel system call interface, and we do not make any guarantees on that front. Rather, we strive to ensure binary compatibility in each dynamically linked system library and framework.'
asciilifeform: ahahahahaha.
vorandrew: ;;help
gribble: The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation:
asciilifeform: waitasec why do we even care
vorandrew: !facts
asciilifeform: what apple does
nubbins`: we don't, i've got a passing interest
nubbins`: at least they point you in the direction of what to do should you choose to ignore dad advice
asciilifeform: i used to have a passing interest, long ago. but for all i know you have to sacrifice a son to the crocodile god to get blessing from cupertino to distribute 'app' now.
nubbins` idly wonders what sort of install base Darwin has
asciilifeform: nubbins`: probably somewhere below that of 'plan 9'
asciilifeform: if you're thinking of raw 'darwin'
asciilifeform: at one point i had a machine going with each.
nubbins`: i know there is/was an "opendarwin" project
nubbins`: anyway, homebrew lets me install sane gcc, but apparently sane ld is off-limits?
asciilifeform: conflicts with the idiot ld on the box, or what
nubbins`: in theory there'd be conflicts with the idiot gcc
nubbins`: so brew installs things in a specific location
nubbins`: then i go rename the originals and ln -s
nubbins`: but check this out:
nubbins`: $ brew install ld64
nubbins`: ld64: OS X Snow Leopard or older is required.
nubbins`: OR OLDER
asciilifeform: nubbins`: you might actually have more luck cross-compiling on that box
nubbins`: in what fashion
asciilifeform: say, for armv5
asciilifeform: (crosstoolchain has prefixes in names)
asciilifeform: but i dare say this is a waste of time
asciilifeform: find a real computer
nubbins`: no kidding hey
nubbins`: brew install ld64 pulls down the following file:
nubbins`: how is this useful
danielpbarron: ftr I do not intend to acutally use apple software; i've been putting OpenBSD on old iMacs
asciilifeform: then no need for the weird apple minutiae, no ?
asciilifeform: is anyone actually trying to build on apple's os ?
danielpbarron: i think nubbins` has other plans
asciilifeform: i meant was, is anyone planning to -run- on apple's os
asciilifeform: because now that's just bizarre
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20591 @ 0.0002754 = 5.6708 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: that's what i'm trying to do, yes
nubbins`: not that i'm going to be running a node on this machine
danielpbarron: i plan on using nothing but OpenBSD whereever possible :p
nubbins`: just killing a saturday seeing how much work is involved
asciilifeform: i'll build for apple shortly after i build for 'super nintendo'
danielpbarron: although still using gentoo on this laptop and debian on my irc server and ArchLinux on the pogo node
nubbins`: 2 more pogos on the way here
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40761 @ 0.00027223 = 11.0964 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: nubbins`: get a mega-crate while they're still around
asciilifeform: i have reasons to suspect that the pogo-4 is not long for this world
danielpbarron: they are selling the things at like 80% off because they think people will pay them 5 USD a month for cloud services
nubbins`: reasons that include dumping the hardware below cost? ;p
asciilifeform: and the cheapest entirely equivalent machine i was able to find on the market, anywhere on planet, is roughly 4x the cost
nubbins`: danielpbarron i'm still not sure how much is mfg subsidy and how much is dumping eol product
nubbins`: the msrp on the things is like $99.
asciilifeform: there are inexhaustible many similar machines -without sata- for around 2-3x the cost of 'pogo4'
asciilifeform: but it is precisely the sata - and the Gb ethernet - which make the pogo what it is
mircea_popescu: felipelalli it actually already works like that.
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [19:50] is anyone actually trying to build on apple's os ? << no
ben_vulpes: mod6 will be too polite about this
mircea_popescu: the reason you're not seeing "anything very objective" is because you don't know all sorts of things you don't know, and so they don't trigger for you. for instance : in a village where there's no bank, someone offering loans is one thing. in a town where banks exists and works, someone offering "loans" is called a loanshark.
ben_vulpes: but macos is marginal, and not at all a thing that i'm interested in hosting bitcoind on.
mircea_popescu: for fundamental or practical reasons ?
mircea_popescu: ie, macos too stupid to run software ? or, not enough people actually running it to bother with ? or what ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it has weird and very annoying quirks. just like actual unixen but not exactly, is the best description
asciilifeform: i think the japanese call this situation 'uncanny valley'
trinque: situation will likely involve installing some mess like brew
ben_vulpes: where's that bash
nubbins` did install some mess like brew
assbot: Logged on 26-10-2014 03:33:41; decimation: osx looks good from the outside, but when you walk into the engine room you find chairs glued to the ceiling and rotating clown cars
nubbins`: fwiw brew is *just* a package manager ;p
trinque: nubbins`: I recall several instances of having done *dunno what* to fuck up my brew/macports/fink install
ben_vulpes: well a) marginal in that if you can hack an os x box, you are able to hack a linux or bsd box, and why prefer the consumer os to something designed for use by professionals
nubbins`: trinque my understanding is that installing brew and macports is a recipe for disaster
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: betcha 9 out of 10 times it is used because laptop.
ben_vulpes: b) it is the product of the devil, with all sorts of odd shit going on under the hood
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30800 @ 0.00028006 = 8.6258 BTC [+] {3}
nubbins`: asciilifeform +1
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: invariably
ben_vulpes: 'tis why i use it.
ben_vulpes: i'd like to build out a workstation this year.
ben_vulpes: doubt that i'll have time, though.
thestringpuller: workstation isn't portable
ben_vulpes: anyways.
jurov: 36 quotes waiting for bash... looks like rs work, guess i'll start asking for donations :D
ben_vulpes: thestringpuller: you don't say!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the parts aren't getting any more findable.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i've been wanting to build a successor to my '07 machine for a few yrs now, and at this point not sure that it will happen at all
asciilifeform: there are how many manufacturers of amd boards with support for ecc ram? 2? 1?
asciilifeform goes through this ritual every year or so
ben_vulpes: i honestly don't even know how to build a workstation.
asciilifeform with same result
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: you buy a number of things and bolt them together...
ben_vulpes: for example: why ecc ram?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: this was actually discussed in #b-a on several occasions
assbot: 63 results for 'ecc' :
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: cannot tolerate errors in memory for any reason, whatsoever.
jurov: can't one just use some server mobo?
asciilifeform: jurov: -must-
asciilifeform: jurov: but not so many for amd.
asciilifeform: esp. if you want expansion slots
asciilifeform: (for human use, typically want video boards, for instance.)
jurov is uninformed grunt with athlonII 630 fourcore with no upgrade plans and sadly no ecc
trinque: asciilifeform: do you find AMD more trustworthy or is it a technical preference?
asciilifeform: last i checked, i actually found an appropriate board. about 1k usd for mobo alone.
asciilifeform: trinque: amd is, recall, also american. but it does not have the history of outright warfare against its customers, or the surreptitious collaboration with microshit, that intel does.
trinque: yep knew they're american, hence curiosity
asciilifeform: there is no 'clean' cpu vendor on the planet today.
asciilifeform: even chinese 'loongson' is built with american w4r4z fab tools.
trinque: heh sorry to constantly remind you of this fact with my questions.
trinque: I am still curious why davout uses win 3.1 to do his encryption
asciilifeform: trinque: there are other useful facts to know about intel
asciilifeform: trinque: for instance, that recent intel server boards all include -prominently advertised- hardware rootkits
asciilifeform: 'remote management'
asciilifeform: supposedly user-controllable, but srsly l0l
trinque: yeah, saw that feature on this lenovo
trinque: "feature"
asciilifeform: as for 'consumer' junk, recent intel boards have nintendo-style signed boot preventing use of linuxbios
asciilifeform: this should tell you everything you need to know.
cazalla: danielpbarron: << is this a qntra article? <<< as far as i could tell, it's just a screenshot from btc-e chat, nothing came from btc-e themselves on the website, twitter etc etc, btc-e's email server was down too so people couldn't confirm withdrawal, so nfi if that link is even factual
assbot: Withdrawals halted as stolen evolution coins make their way to BTC-e : Bitcoin ... ( )
trinque: asciilifeform: indeed
asciilifeform: trinque: amd is not 'angelic', it is simply behind the usg schedule because, elementary, smaller market share
asciilifeform: and is the 'younger son'
asciilifeform: so not favoured by microshit
asciilifeform: but we all know where the train is going
asciilifeform: so if you want to buy hardware, do it while you can.
nubbins`: ;;google hear my train a-comin'
gribble: Hear My Train A Comin' - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <'>; Jimi Hendrix - Hear My Train A Comin' (Lyric Video) - YouTube: <>; Jimi Hendrix: Hear My Train A Comin' | Director's Cut Video ... - PBS: < (1 more message)
assbot: Motherboards - M5A97 R2.0 - ASUS ... ( )
asciilifeform: jurov: own this one ^ ?
cazalla: plus the mods for btc-e chat are well known for trolling so who really knows
jurov: no, just could not believe there is nothing avail
asciilifeform: jurov: be careful with the ecc thing. many boards will take the dimms, but won't actually -use- ecc
asciilifeform: generally only 'server market' boards that -require- ecc, actually work with it.
jurov: wow, such scam
asciilifeform: other than that, i cannot comment on the linked item
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44350 @ 0.00027708 = 12.2885 BTC [-]
assbot: Autotranslated Spam For The Lulz pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: << that's just the tenth of it, but yes, a major reason this doesn't work.
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 19:21:00; vorandrew: and boom! - just default on 660K BTC :)
asciilifeform: jurov: i generally buy boards that require 'buffered ecc'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: i'll build for apple shortly after i build for 'super nintendo' << ahahaha. nintendo!
asciilifeform: the solidest gold toilet available
asciilifeform: trinque, jurov: see also recently publicized 'rowhammer' effect.
jurov: it hits unbuffered harder?
asciilifeform: not that i know of. unrelated
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 19:54:27; nubbins`: the msrp on the things is like $99.
asciilifeform: though i'm uncertain re: whether ddr3 even exists in buffered-ecc variant
asciilifeform: (ddr3 is the type of dram affected by 'rowhammer')
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.00028206 = 6.0925 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Unbuffered versus Registered ECC Memory - Difference between ECC UDIMMs and RDIMMsServeTheHome – Server and Workstation Reviews ... ( )
ben_vulpes: neat likbez, asciilifeform, thank you
jurov: good. so we now know alf needs 100+G of RAM
asciilifeform: jurov: even something very modest like 16 begins to suffer from buffering problems if actually used in anger
trinque wonders what relevance running from ramdisks might have to the situation involving hd firmware
asciilifeform: trinque: hd firmware diddling is usually interesting at boot
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26718 @ 0.00028261 = 7.5508 BTC [+]
trinque: asciilifeform: boot from cd, decompress an image into ram?
trinque: not that it avoids any other diddled components
trinque: also where do you make your "clean" CD
asciilifeform: trinque: most cdrom drives have reflashable fw, incidentally.
asciilifeform: (why? don't ask me)
nubbins`: my first cdrw drive required a firmware update
nubbins`: well, "required". too long ago to remember what it did
nubbins`: ostensibly it's there for later when they discover bugs in their code
asciilifeform: the option of not having the bugs is presented as not even thinkable.
nubbins`: those drives, you prolly can't reflash the fw 8)
trinque: asciilifeform: "ship it!" (tm)
asciilifeform: incidentally, buggy+nonflashable is common as dirt. my car, for instance, has a buggy cabin thermostat controller.
nubbins`: they shoulda made it reflashable!
nubbins`: ^ homemade kimchi on the menu tonite
trinque: yum!
asciilifeform: actually i have no idea if flashable. could very well be. but no vendor upgrade has ever been released, nor is there any obvious means of applying one
nubbins`: been fermenting on the counter for 6 days
asciilifeform: (some newer cars can actually be reflashed through the music player, famously.)
nubbins`: just fried up a test piece; wept
nubbins`: asciilifeform some synths i have can be reflashed modem-style via audio jack
nubbins`: update is released as wav file
assbot: g++ -pthread -Wno-invalid-offsetof -Wformat -g -DNOPCH -I/Users/jonkeefe/Downloa - ... ( )
nubbins`: anyone have a suggestion as to where i start figuring out *which* file/directory it can't find?
nubbins`: everything in prior stmt appears to be present
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12200 @ 0.00028483 = 3.4749 BTC [+]
jurov: i'd strace it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45530 @ 0.00028152 = 12.8176 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25800 @ 0.00027616 = 7.1249 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18600 @ 0.00027211 = 5.0612 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: jurov good idea, nothing useful tho
decimation: asciilifeform: I tried to compile an 'open source' app using the osx devel tool once
decimation: the developer in question had already made a deal with apple to publish the app apparently. I couldn't even compile my own version unsigned for my own personal use
decimation: Xcode insisted that I required a paid apple developer account before I could consider such a thing, it appears
decimation: now, perhaps I was just unaware of the proper method of 'unsigning' someone else's code, but it wasn't an obvious feature if it existed
trinque: yeah, it can be done
nubbins`: is this a mac app or an ios app?
trinque: or at least years ago when I did this
decimation: mac app
nubbins`: ah, haven't ever used xcode for this
trinque: you have to set your ios device up as one of your dev devices
decimation: no, it was a mac app
nubbins`: as you can imagine, ios apps are under almost total lockdown
trinque: whether this much fuckery should be involved aside, it can be done
nubbins`: seems kinda weird that some random code won't compile tho.
trinque: you make your own self-signed cert then flip a setting that allows you to run such things
decimation: trinque: I did attempt that
nubbins`: best batch of kimchi yet, btw
nubbins`: so goddamn sour
decimation: at any rate, it does appear that with each release of osx/xcode, apple subtlety changes what is 'allowed', without much explicit explanation
trinque: decimation: a friend of mine always says it's a matter of time before they remove the terminal entirely
assbot: 87105/0x2a6df: stat64("/Users/jonkeefe/Downloads/bitcoin-v0_5_3_1/ourlibs/inclu - ... ( )
nubbins`: ^ fwiw
decimation: yes, the path is obvious
nubbins`: ran via "dtruss"
nubbins`: nothing useful afaict
decimation: apple could quite easily lock down osx just as hard as it locks down ios
trinque: decimation: pretty far from their roots these days
nubbins`: decimation a couple releases ago (maybe 1-2), the default behaviour for applications downloaded by "unknown developers" requires you to right-click,open
nubbins`: for first run
nubbins`: double-click turns you down
decimation: nubbins`: that's still the case
nubbins`: fwiw it's fairly non-intrusive and can be disabled
decimation: right, but apple just wants you to know that it sees what you are doing there...
decimation: on the other hand, perhaps apple is just trying to 'enumerate goodness' in its 'forced wot'
nubbins`: <+trinque> decimation: a friend of mine always says it's a matter of time before they remove the terminal entirely <<< a friend of mine says obummer is a reptilian
decimation: except apple doesn't really have a wot so much as it has a slave harem
trinque: nubbins`: heh, I tend to argue the contrary
trinque: but he has a point
nubbins`: like, remove from the default install, or remove the ability to run bash?
nubbins`: or something more nebulous
nubbins`: like "just remove"
pete_dushenski: if apple has a slave harem, they win the award for 'dumbest slave harem'
decimation: pete_dushenski: well, they apparently can charge people for the privilege of signing up
trinque: nubbins`: remove the ability to interact with anything other than signed cocoa apps
pete_dushenski: or maybe windowz wins. but w/e
nubbins`: well, y'know.
nubbins`: let em.
nubbins`: it's their hw/sw
pete_dushenski: decimation: they charge ppl for all the privileges!
trinque: sure, that was my reaction to the latest win10 signed boot bullshit
nubbins`: *i* won't buy it, but since when does the market cater to rational actors?
pete_dushenski: that's how you know it's lvmh territory
pete_dushenski: nubbins`: not since the state stuck its fingers in
decimation: as in maker of fancy trinkets for rich folk?
decimation: I recently heard an argument that apple's only recourse to 'grow' its revenue stream is to sell super-luxury goods
pete_dushenski: nubbins`: which would've been what, 1915 ?
trinque: decimation: the apple watch gadget etc
trinque: tv... so on
pete_dushenski: decimation: new product offerings grow their pie just as well
decimation: the argument being that even if every 'middle class' person in the world purchased a new apple device they would still only be 'holding steady'
trinque: I admire the way the company got started; someone needs to do *that* again
trinque: because now they're the IBM
pete_dushenski: not necessarily more premium, just... branded
nubbins`: mildly surprised there's no market for os-free laptops of somewhat rugged construction
nubbins`: but only ever so mildly
decimation: which explains the need to sell 10k watches, and cars, bespoke helicopters, etc
trinque: asciilifeform tells me there are no trustworthy components with which to re-do the garage build, and I don't doubt him
pete_dushenski: nubbins`: like engineless car market
pete_dushenski: buy a honda, insert own custom ferrari engine
pete_dushenski: uh, sure
decimation: nubbins`: there's the 'toughbook'
nubbins`: my next laptop will probably be a cheap desktop + chromebook
decimation: but I think it comes with winblows
nubbins`: decimation what am i, a cop?!
nubbins`: dell usually offers one or two linux laptops
nubbins`: hopelessly outdated and overpriced
nubbins`: otherwise, your choices are (a) give MS $25 or (b) fuck off
decimation: my recommendation is you purchase a laptop on the 'coreboot' list & flash your own bios
trinque: I've seen a system76 in person, seemed like a piece of shit
pete_dushenski: or buy old thinkpad
pete_dushenski: which i'll get around to myself at some point
nubbins`: trinque i researched those
decimation: be prepared for shitty device support
nubbins`: i honestly abhor the idea of a plastic laptop
trinque: pete_dushenski: I'm on a lenovo turd currently, do not recommend
trinque: thinkpad in name only
pete_dushenski: mm, ok so pre-2011 or w/e
trinque: yeah
pete_dushenski: update ram, new os, go
nubbins`: haha, i actually have a laptop w/ coreboot: OLPC XO-1.
trinque: my cellphone gets too close to this machine and the display starts flickering, disk remounts read-only
decimation: if you want 'cheap, don't care', you could buy a chromebook and reflash
nubbins`: my criteria are (a) not plastic body (b) no money given to MS
pete_dushenski: several ways to skin cat, hard to argue that any involve apple
decimation: well, the 'plastic body' fails almost everything
decimation: macbookpro or toughbook
nubbins`: mbp = soldered ram, glued battery
pete_dushenski: only newest ones
nubbins`: too troo
nubbins`: used laptops = ehhhh
pete_dushenski: glued battery wasn't there 3 years ago
nubbins`: who knows how they were treated
pete_dushenski: not sure about ram
decimation: yeah, you could buy an old g4 macbook pro
pete_dushenski: 17" screen!
nubbins`: maybe i'll just try stocking up on a full set of spare parts for this late-2008 macbook
nubbins`: prolly no easier
decimation: replace battery, replace hdd
pete_dushenski: maybe no easier, but that's not the point, the point is what's saner
nubbins`: this is actually the longest i've ever used the same laptop
pete_dushenski: well then why stop
nubbins`: planning for the future, yo
pete_dushenski: dollars to donuts a newer one won't last 7 years
nubbins`: one day this will die
pete_dushenski: but unless it's too slow for your needs, like decimation said, a new hdd or battery is all you'll likely need
pete_dushenski: what, maybe fan
nubbins`: got a new battery and upgraded to 8gb ram a couple months ago
nubbins`: breathed some new life into it
pete_dushenski: next: ssd
decimation: they might not have sata drives, you might need an ata ssd
nubbins`: ssd i can do w/o
nubbins` doesn't do much disk thrashing
decimation: the issue is that it might suck if you don't run osx
nubbins`: that's what my iphone said when i walked into best buy
PeterL: so I applied for grad school today
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24600 @ 0.00027425 = 6.7466 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: PeterL: what program ?
PeterL: Central Mich chemistry
pete_dushenski: nice. gl!
PeterL: thanks
PeterL: it's the only place close enough to be commutable
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42600 @ 0.0002721 = 11.5915 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: PeterL congrats/condolences
PeterL: lol
PeterL: asciilifeform:the same folks who were paying the parasites (i will not call them publishers, they withhold only - performing not a single one of the traditional functions of a publishing house save the physical printing) - will continue to pay. << what is this "physical printing"? everything is online now
PeterL: btw, I'm a couple days behind in the logs
decimation: PeterL: it doesn't matter that it's all online
nubbins`: facepalm
decimation: in fact, it makes things worse, because they can positively identify to whom 'reading privileges' belong
PeterL: decimation: in fact, it makes things worse, because they can positively identify to whom 'reading privileges' belong << people share files, right?
decimation: sure, let me know if you find an open repo with all academic pubs present, updated regularly
PeterL: asciilifeform:and to the extent it isn't a problem, it is solely because academia is mostly dead as a going concern << and here I go trying to get back into it :(
decimation: PeterL: it's not a bad idea if you can scam someone into paying for it
nubbins`: fwiw "everything is online now" people generally miss out on a broad spectrum of opportunity
asciilifeform: fact is, i can go and read print materials at uni library
asciilifeform: online ones - no.
PeterL: no university password?
asciilifeform: and i pay actual money just to be permitted in the library
nubbins`: even if you could read 'em online, look what happens if you read them too fast
asciilifeform: there has been a very sharp decline in the past few yrs in what i am able to access at the library
asciilifeform: because even the things still issued in print - many of the print subscriptions at this place were allowed to lapse
asciilifeform: because 'anyone who's anyone can read on www' or the like.
asciilifeform: and no, none of it is on warez of any kind
asciilifeform: (who would put it there, and why?)
PeterL: get an undergrad girlfriend who can print it for you?
nubbins`: "everything is online" is a fine premise for commodity data
nubbins`: rare data, not so much
asciilifeform: PeterL: someone suggested bribery & shills before. it doesn't work, because my use pattern is 'grep at 3am when moon is full'
asciilifeform: rather than 'fetch me XXXXX'
nubbins`: i've downloaded bootlegged concerts, since lost, that i will never, ever, ever find again
PeterL: you grep the dead trees?
asciilifeform: PeterL: approximately.
asciilifeform: speaking of the online stuff, really
asciilifeform: i browse.
asciilifeform: most of the time when i go to that library it isn't even for a specific rational purpose
asciilifeform: but just to massage brain
asciilifeform: this is easy with print, difficult with www, but absolutely impossible with www that someone else is cranking for you
PeterL: browse through google scholar?
asciilifeform: PeterL: browsing for me implies instant access to full text
PeterL: good point
asciilifeform: not idiot 'winamp playlists' of titles
asciilifeform: nubbins`: mildly surprised there's no market for os-free laptops of somewhat rugged construction << iirc the term of art is 'lemon market'
decimation: it's not like several day delay involved in informing whatever patsy to do what is needed is great for your train of thought
asciilifeform: !s ooda loop
assbot: 2 results for 'ooda loop' :
decimation: and then if patsy discovers the volume/paper/whatever wasn't useful, how do you think they will react?
asciilifeform: the whole point of a library, originally (ancient and medieval worlds) was so you don't have to write to phriend across the sea 'please send me work xxxxx' and get it two years later when you forget what it was even for
decimation: ie a cache
asciilifeform: to 'shorten the ooda loop'
decimation: but that was when only people who knew wtf they were doing could even read
asciilifeform: today 'library' could be anywhere with a net connection - but isn't
asciilifeform: and if it takes ww3 to eliminate the reasons for this - then i am enthusiastically in favour of ww3.
decimation: asciilifeform: publishers/authors have 'come to expect' royalties
PeterL: new #B-A need: print off all the articles and store in a library
trinque: ahem... deedbot-
decimation: online repo is fine, as long as it is properly organized and indexed
asciilifeform: decimation: the authors virtually never see any positive cashflow
nubbins`: PeterL dat cutoff of comments
decimation: note that attempting to accomplish this task was why whats his face hung himself
asciilifeform: i'm not even satisfied that he did it himself
asciilifeform: but yes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9035 @ 0.00027384 = 2.4741 BTC [+]
PeterL: nubbins`: what cutoff?
nubbins`: waitnow. what articles?
PeterL: all the articles asciilifeform wants to read later
asciilifeform: most of what i read is '70s-'90s and a good chunk of it is book
PeterL: would deedbot be a suitable place to publish scientific research?
decimation: sure, or at least a hash/pointer to the same
asciilifeform: PeterL: so it isn't merely or even primarily about recent publications
asciilifeform: but this is a case of 'the spittoon'
asciilifeform: !s spittoon
assbot: 21 results for 'spittoon' :
trinque: PeterL: depends on licensing I guess; I don't have the bankroll to get into any copyright battles for anyone
trinque: nor the interest
asciilifeform: the frustration of the activity is directly proportional to how often i end up 'following a dead link' - that is, trying to access something - anything - referred to in any work, and finding out that it isn't in the collection or i'm not cleared for it
asciilifeform: and generally the answer is 'constantly'
decimation: ^ me too
asciilifeform: since mircea_popescu is out, i will have to fill in for him and point out that yes, 99.9999% percent of the material is crud
asciilifeform: but this changes nothing
decimation: and I even pay for an IEEE membership w/societies (mostly IEEE papers)
asciilifeform: we don't have a mechanism for producing the good stuff separately, yet.
asciilifeform: to anyone who ever wondered about what the net would look like if it were controlled by publishers, rather than telecoms: it would look like the academia web.
trinque: part of the interest for me working on deedbot- was to see how hard the next thing would be, publishing magnet link hashes, dht keys, something like that
trinque: that idea is better off being a tool you run against your own bitcoind
asciilifeform: trinque: warez only really works for popular things
trinque: asciilifeform: yeh, people here would have to run it
trinque: *seed
asciilifeform: for instance, go find peter kogge's 'symbolic computers' on warez.
asciilifeform: it isn't there
asciilifeform: and if it is ever there, it will almost certainly be because i will have found the time to scan it & post it.
trinque: asciilifeform: I have long wanted a system where member nodes can all publish wads 'o gpg stuff, peers don't know the contents of the wad, give each-other redundancy
assbot: The Architecture of Symbolic Computers - Peter M. Kogge - Google Boeken ... ( )
trinque: there are a few attempts at doing it with a shitty alt-coin
PeterL: trinque: isn't that what bitmessage is supposed to do?
trinque: PeterL: in the ballpark; there's storj, also ballpark
asciilifeform: decimation: yes, it
trinque: needs to be built on bitcoin
decimation: the g00g has it in their repo...
PeterL: why need to build on bitcoin?
asciilifeform: decimation: they have almost everything
asciilifeform: decimation: but fat lot of good it does anyone else
asciilifeform: it's as uninteresting as the fact that the author might still have it on some ancient 8mm tape
trinque: google, one of the things which will survive the fall...
asciilifeform: trinque: see their usenet archive to learn what happens to material that the 1990s-birthdayed morons don't give a damn about
decimation: perhaps one day google will be 'snowdened'
asciilifeform: go steal 10000tB.
decimation: heh yeah
decimation: something tells me google security would notice the racks going out the door
asciilifeform: the only way it could really change hands is physical conquest of entire continent
asciilifeform: in the course of which most of it would be destroyed
asciilifeform: since mircea_popescu is out, i will fill in for him and observe that library of alexandria burning is no loss, when cockroaches evolve and replace man they will rediscover everything.
asciilifeform: i kinda wish i could think myself into the mindset of 'immortal olympian' that way
asciilifeform: but i happen to live here. and to me the availability of this or that piece of dead tree - matters.
decimation: agreed, me too
decimation: asciilifeform: how do you 'scan and post' a book? I just fujitsu scansnap
decimation: s/just/use
asciilifeform: decimation: tripod
asciilifeform: like the old spies with their 'minox' cams.
decimation: do you have a collection of custom scripts to turn a pile of images into a pdf/djvu
trinque: asciilifeform: is the situation that google bought deja news then didn't put up the whole archive?
trinque: I'm not old enough to have experienced a usenet golden age
PeterL: I used a couple "google groups" for a while, before I moved up to the bitcoinTalk forum
decimation: trinque: in the olden days it was expected your local isp would provide a usenet server and collect archives
asciilifeform: trinque: nope
asciilifeform: trinque: it's in there, as far as i can tell, but quietly stopped being searchable a year or so ago
asciilifeform: and before that, they glommed it into their idiot 'google groups' thing
decimation: 'deja news' was kinda like the original 'stack overflow' in terms of its usefulness to troubleshooting common computer issues
asciilifeform: then they stopped making them searchable separately
asciilifeform: then - at all
asciilifeform: i still can't tell if it was mere neglect, or shitgnomery, or specifically the folks who posted silly things on usenet in the '80-'90s are trying to run for political office, or what.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45800 @ 0.00027377 = 12.5387 BTC [-] {2}
trinque: quip above about the fall was that I'm sure inside google it's easy to access all this information, regardless of what levers the external surface has
decimation: I doubt 99% of folks inside google even know/care
asciilifeform: trinque: they bought up the dejanews optical disks. and i'm be rather surprised if they didn't still have them.
trinque: decimation: probably doesn't matter
decimation: the assumption of competence when it comes to a big bureaucracy is generally a poor one
asciilifeform: say what you like about library of alexandria, but usenet '85-'2000 was home to virtually all of the technically competent folks who exist today.
trinque: asciilifeform's two govts observation about the US I think applies to Googles as well
trinque: who gives a fuck who's working on gmail
trinque: the company has more information than arguably any other, and is building a robot army
trinque: haha
trinque: they'll be powerful for a long time.
decimation: I don't buy that there is a meta-google
trinque: I don't buy that such overtly, cynically powerful entities have not a single functioning brain within
decimation: the same could be said about the us in general
trinque: "don't be evil" has to be the cheesiest wink at the camera of all time
decimation: I like moldbug's theory: those 'with a brain' are generally engaged in spending all their time battling each other
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23544 @ 0.00027425 = 6.4569 BTC [+] {2}
PeterL: I wonder if google is cacheing the info on servers outside the US, so they could outlast a US collapse?
trinque: lockheed martins and googles are what I expect to remain in the ashes
trinque: which ones are actually prepared for the collapse, we'll find out then
trinque: but to think none of them are, that's naive
trinque: day two, and we're back to clubs and wearing skins
jurov: if the collapse will look like anything in the ostbloc
jurov: all gear will be gon to scrap metal or so
asciilifeform: the 'fine things of life' invariably are destroyed in a proper collapse.
asciilifeform: where is soviet physics? mathematics ?
pete_dushenski: like... twin studies
trinque: asciilifeform: silos are still there, as far as I know
asciilifeform: the folks not dead of drink have been driving cabs in nyc for so long as to have put their generative years firmly behind.
asciilifeform: trinque: not speaking of the rusty rockets at all
pete_dushenski: unless someone can point me to mengele's published paper
trinque: asciilifeform: I am
trinque: rustry drones maybe
trinque: *rusty
asciilifeform: but of the absolutely first-rate, never-equalled academic work
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: wrong twin studies
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: speaking here of the longitudinal studies of adopted children in usa
asciilifeform: (re: twin studies from last night's thread.)
asciilifeform: l0l re: pete_dushenski immediately thinking of mengele's twins
pete_dushenski: also interesting, i suppose
pete_dushenski: haha what... i was trying to hunt down some nazi scientific papers last night
pete_dushenski: in english, found nothing
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: all the good stuff was taken to usa and is, for the most part, still secret
asciilifeform: (not because it included superweapons but to conceal the amount of u.s.-nazi cooperation from day one)
pete_dushenski: i'm generally curious about the merits of their decade and change of research
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: ibm, i know of
asciilifeform: not about ibm
pete_dushenski: what other cooperation do you refer to ?
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: chemical industry, for instance
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: plus the post-war rescue of virtually all of the weirdos (most famously von braun but many others)
pete_dushenski: my digging was more concentration camp focused, but i guess you bring up a good point that there's was a huge breadth of inquiry at the time
pete_dushenski: chemical weapons, v2 rockets, many things i have still to learn of
pete_dushenski: *there was
asciilifeform: unfortunately pete_dushenski is right about the unavailability in english of most of the interesting material.
pete_dushenski: hm well alexandria may have been replaceable/rediscoverable, but if nazi work goes down with usg, how long do we wait ?
pete_dushenski: if anyone can point me towards interesting work in german, i'll translate it for cripes sake
pete_dushenski: unrelated: << asciilifeform did i get the right grigorenko ??
assbot: Cool Hand Luke. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( )
asciilifeform is not convinced that there was anything interesting in 'nazi academia' that we aren't already using in consumer tech (german chemical work, mostly, manufacturing techniques)
decimation: pete_dushenski: sprechen Sie Deutsch?
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: how about medicine ?
pete_dushenski: decimation: nein...
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: him. he has a book, about his life and how he was tormented in punitive psych hospitals
decimation: asciilifeform: I know that the german chemical industry was also generally transported to usg
pete_dushenski: in german, i have hello, goodbye, sorry, counting to 10, and a few other random words
pete_dushenski: about on par with my hebrew
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: you would do just as well to learn ru
pete_dushenski: i can see it
pete_dushenski: though if i could add any 4th language, just for reading comprehension even, it'd be german
trinque: pete_dushenski: ich lerne deutsche mit duolingo
trinque: barely toddler level, but the app's fun
decimation: unfortunately german isn't as useful today because germany has been well-anglicized
pete_dushenski: trinque: haha i actually did a few lessons on there ! back when i started 'sabbatical'
pete_dushenski: on the spendier side, there's always rosetta stone, but having someone to speak to other than my mother would be nice
pete_dushenski: i really don't know any other german speakers with whom to converse
pete_dushenski: but as i said earlier, reading comprehension would be the most valuable for my purposes
pete_dushenski: i mean, causes ;)
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: the quoted log in your post reads with great difficulty because of the choice of snips
pete_dushenski: hm. let me try again
pete_dushenski: one of the trickier conversations to break up, i admit, but it's a little better now.
assbot: The world is fundamentally hostile. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( )
pete_dushenski: good question, really.
pete_dushenski: i guess teh jooz can always be blamed, right ?
pete_dushenski: so qntra business cards... i can dig it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54600 @ 0.000272 = 14.8512 BTC [-] {2}
felipelalli: thestringpuller: but "the repayment rate" does not depends (also) on the investor? He can choose the investments he wants to make. I was being lucky, or I made good choices.
felipelalli: vorandrew: thanks for explain your point.
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: "felipelalli it actually already works like that." << what exactly "works like that"? Sorry, I couldn't link it. --- And thanks for the links, I'll read it.
felipelalli: thestringpuller: but "the repayment rate" does not depends (also) on the investor? He can choose the investments he wants to make. I was being lucky, or I made good choices.
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: "felipelalli it actually already works like that." << what exactly "works like that"? Sorry, I couldn't link it. --- And thanks for the links, I'll read it.
felipelalli: vorandrew: you said "you repay all year just to get max rating" << no, no. The service does not work like that. Actually, if you get too many loans your score can decrease. The score is very bad implemented / executed yet, but it is not SO bad like that. And 660K BTC? Well, they played in TOTAL until today 44K BTC. Total. I like the idea of P2P lending: it is not the most secure investment ever but at least is fun play choosing the
felipelalli: right lists, and the right rates. I really want to understand better why you guys dislike it so much. In my country the interest rates are very high. In my bank, for example, I can get a loan with 7% per month MIN! APR 125% and in BTCJam I made some tests and I could get my first loand with 3% per month (42% APR) and then the second 2.8% (39% APR). The loan is so fucking high in bank that I can say like mircea_popescu said: "we are
felipelalli: like a village without bank". You guys forget that I live in Brazil, shit of country.
Pierre_Rochard: You guys forget that I live in Brazil, shit of country. << Is btcjam really a better borrowing option than, say,
assbot: Itaú - créditos e financiamentos - crédito ... ( )
felipelalli: Pierre_Rochard: yes. Itaú is my bank.
felipelalli: Itaú normal interest rate: 7% PER MONTH. My interest rate in Itaú (because I am an old client): 4.8%. BTCJam: 2.8%. It makes a huge difference when you calculate the compound interest per year.
felipelalli: But now, BTCJam simply eliminated the free market where the user could choose its own interest rate (and let it free to investors fund or not), and they automagically calculate the interest rate. With this new rule, I can get by 3.5% per month. That is not a huge problem for me, actually, I was using this more like a test. But they simply buried the "service". Even if it was a zombie's forehead shot.
PeterL: asciilifeform: on the topic of browsing lit, have you looked at open access journals like ?
assbot: Hindawi Publishing Corporation ... ( )
felipelalli: I'm sure I could set 2% rate or less and my list would be fund, because my reputation in Brazilian bitcoin community is very good. But now I have no choice rather than get 3.5% calculated like magic by them. That's why I was disgusted. I would write an article about that, but after talking with you guys in this channel I was unmotivated.
felipelalli: I had never thought that they did not deserve even taken seriously, but it seems to make sense.
felipelalli: PeterL: what is the rate per month you can get where you live? I heard it is much less than here.
felipelalli: PeterL: sorry, the question was to Pierre_Rochard
Pierre_Rochard: Pierre_Rochard: I think the worst credit cards run for 2% per month, 30 yr fixed rate mortgage with good credit will cost you 0.33% per month
Pierre_Rochard: ehrm felipelalli
ben_vulpes: felipelalli: aha, that's why all the butthurt
felipelalli: ben_vulpes: yes! :)
felipelalli: ben_vulpes: I thought it was a global problem, but I learned here that: 1) there are rich guys (you guys) that really don't care about it. 2) there are guys with rich friends :) 3) your interest rate are ridiculous cheap. BTCJam really don't solve anything to you.
felipelalli: and, of course, 4) there are better investments than BTCJam to you.
ben_vulpes: aside one can't actually invest in BTCJam as such.
felipelalli: They could invest on me there. I was a very secure investment, e.g.
felipelalli: So, this: makes me "cry". I ran to to read something about that and for my surprise I didn't find anything. But now I understand why. Not fully yet, but I can at least understand your point of view.
assbot: BTCJam Introduces Risk Based Pricing (Interest Rates Set Automatically by Credit Score) | BTCJam Blog ... ( )
PeterL: you might be a fine investment, but btcjam is not
felipelalli: But I could easily be found there. And I have personal friends there, that I know it is a secure investment. That's why I only had profit, very few lost.
felipelalli: Actually it was easy to find red flags in the lists. Unfortunately their system does not help that much, but if you are smart, you can see the clues.
PeterL: see, you had wot ouside of btcjam that made those investments worthwhile
felipelalli: Yes! PeterL Exactly.
felipelalli: They were just like a tool to make easy contact 30 friends at the same time, and make it in 5 min. (actually in this 30 friends there were friends of friends, like level 2 in WoT))
felipelalli: And it makes more impersonal and passive. Instead to make a spam asking for money to your family and friends (active and personal), you can just publish the list (passive and impersonal) and anyone can invest if they want, or just ignore. Like 5 people I know personally invest their first 30% and the rest was "friends of friends". It just worked to me because I had a good "outside WoT".
ben_vulpes: a good scammatron has totally legitimate uses and users.
ben_vulpes: one breed of good scammatrons.
PeterL: it is easier for scammers to hide if there are legitamate users around them
felipelalli: PeterL: ugly truth.
danielpbarron: felipelalli, get your friends in here
danielpbarron: no reason you guys have to stop lending at your prefered rates
PeterL: do the speak english?
felipelalli: PeterL: no, Portuguese.
felipelalli: danielpbarron: I'm trying to convince some of them to use OTC system at least.
ben_vulpes: at the very least they need to be in the WoT
ben_vulpes: for their own continued health.
felipelalli: But did you understand my point of make it automatic, fast, impersonal and passive? It is different.
ben_vulpes: all of the above is why btcjam is a scam from the -assets perspective.
ben_vulpes: trust cannot be automatic, is built slowly, must be on personal terms, and contracts are always active.
ben_vulpes: this "passive investment" routine is a holdover from the fiat days.
ben_vulpes: of necessity, it must die.
felipelalli: I am not saying the trust should be automatic or fast. But the funding process.
PeterL: but you can passively invest with a broker who is in the WoT
felipelalli: Like jurov ?
ben_vulpes: funding is as fast as a confirmation.
ben_vulpes: PeterL: who's taking investment?
PeterL: I was thinking like Jurov, yes
felipelalli: He said something like that to me one day.
asciilifeform: PeterL: have you looked at open access journals like ? << even if, through divine intervention, everyone suddenly began to publish there (they won't) - this doesn't solve the 20th century
assbot: Hindawi Publishing Corporation ... ( )
asciilifeform: PeterL: where most of the things i take an interest in actually happened.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what do you mean by 'passive investment' ?
PeterL: you just need a couple slave girls with some cameras to tour all teh libraries
asciilifeform: PeterL: see 'ooda loop' discussion
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: something like MPIF
asciilifeform: even aside from the ooda loop, the #1 thing in a library is serendipity
felipelalli: Let me ask one think out of the context: isn't gpg contract useless without some "proof of existence", published in Blockchain, e.g.?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what would be an example of an active investment ?
PeterL: MPIF is sorely lacking in places to put its money
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: allocating capital oneself between MPOE/BBET/BTC
ben_vulpes: am i misusing these terms?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: so is your hypothesis that allocating btc between investments is so difficult and/or uninteresting that no one can do it for you for a fee and there still be anything left over to work with ?
asciilifeform is eminently unqualified to comment on the hypothesis itself, if this is it
ben_vulpes: no, my hypothesis is that the current us style of "just stick the money in the market and get returns" is slated for the guillotine under the new regime.
PeterL: You don't see a niche for a mutual fund covering MPEx?
ben_vulpes: in practice, i'm unaware of anyone offering to manage btc between MPOE/BBET/NSA/BTC for a fee.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i was thinking about a hypothetical larger world where there are many worthwhile things
ben_vulpes: some day, ideally.
asciilifeform: say, S.USFAT
PeterL: once a few more stocks show up on the exchange
asciilifeform: (rendering various organisms for soap, a growth industry in the near future)
mod6: :D
PeterL: maybe I could run that? pretty simple chemical reaction, really
mircea_popescu: what's usfat ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: u.s. fat.
assbot: Characterization of the Fatty Acids Present in Wastewaters from Production of Biodiesel Tilapia ... ( )
asciilifeform: no, like homo redditicus
mircea_popescu: i know a girl that makes soaps and stuff. she wouldn't touch the coarse stuff.
mircea_popescu: contrary to what they claim in fight club, best fat base is like, various nut oils etc.
asciilifeform: then diesel.
asciilifeform firmly convinced that there are no entirely useless things in this world
mircea_popescu: oil at 45 a barrel tho...
asciilifeform: not even redditors
ben_vulpes: by the time the corpses are available, they'll have scavenged their own fat prior to dying.
mircea_popescu: how about sitching footballs ?
ben_vulpes: you've seen the auschwitz photos...
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: there is a hypothesis that this will not happen this time around. because of sudden release of fat-soluble poisons
asciilifeform: that weren't there in '40s
ben_vulpes: oh yeah?
ben_vulpes: i'm unfamiliar with this hypothesis
asciilifeform: aha. has not been tested in practice, afaik
asciilifeform: and i forget who suggested it to me
ben_vulpes: what's the gist, though
ben_vulpes: mustard gas...again?
asciilifeform: the gist is that folks will croak long before they turn auschwitz-thin
asciilifeform: on account of various strange in their american diet
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's exactly it. american fat is more like, chemdump
mircea_popescu: everything the liver culdn't cope with, got stored on the thighs
mircea_popescu: and yes it has been tested in practice.
mircea_popescu: by me. on actual live womenz.
asciilifeform: and malnutrition turns the organism uniquely underequipped to deal with the released crud.
PeterL: so we need to render and extract the usians before making them into soap
mircea_popescu: not even malnutrition. simple sane diet will make the woman sick, anemic, the works.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what happens, roughly ?
ben_vulpes: an exercise in slimming down a rubenesque babe lead to...liver prazlems?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform all the classical symptoms of light poisoning.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: what was diet prior?
mircea_popescu: "us food"
PeterL: us "food"
ben_vulpes: "us" "food"
ben_vulpes: (for symmetry)
felipelalli: "us" food
asciilifeform: 'eat recycled food!' (TM)
mircea_popescu: "us "food"" technically. first set because answer to q, 2nd set because well...
mircea_popescu: but you can readily notice the pure chemical osmotic source of "weight gain" when the woman eats 50% more calories and loses weight.
ben_vulpes: body building fat reserves to park toxic crap in?
mircea_popescu: in general, you gotta overfeed to lose weight. because the only way the body is even touching some of that stuff is if the liver is full of all sorts of micronutrients to render it with
ben_vulpes: what are the limiting reactants?
mircea_popescu: then after a year or two as the body re-learns to associate food with micronutrients - all sorts of urges, as it approaches various layers of problems
asciilifeform: almost sounds like the '80s 'chelation' theory
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i honestly think it's exactly accurate.
asciilifeform suspected but did not know
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i dunno dood. milk's a big thing. various fats, various vegetals.
PeterL: I'm guessing colorful vegtables help?
mircea_popescu: one chick went through a chickpea phase where she ate > 100 cans over about a year. half of it within the first season.
mircea_popescu: "what do you want to eat today ?" "chickpeas"
asciilifeform looks for al schwartz's table of plant toxins; can't find at the moment, but recalls that chickpeas were near the top for something or other
mircea_popescu: i think it was either a protein or fat that was needed for god knows what. because phase passed.
mircea_popescu: sadly i don't have the patience or the tools to actually get into the microchemistry of it
asciilifeform: ;;google lathyrism
gribble: Lathyrism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <>; Lathyrism: a neurotoxic disease.: <>; Lathyrism | Doctor | <>
asciilifeform: hm not chickpeas
mircea_popescu: im 100% sure this is where all the "Fad diet" stuff comes from too.
mircea_popescu: people still stuck in the soup get at the margins various such desperate cries from body.
mircea_popescu: some make it through
mircea_popescu: hence the idiocy of "eat nothing else but ...."
mircea_popescu: really it should be "leave the states and eat ... to your fill".
mircea_popescu: but o may gawd, leaving THE COUNTRY, unthinkable.
ben_vulpes: STEAK
mircea_popescu: i have no experience with men.
asciilifeform wonders if anyone ever polled, who would leave if could
asciilifeform: or whether such a thing even makes sense
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just sayin', doesn't occur to them.
asciilifeform: doesn't occur !?!
ben_vulpes: nope.
asciilifeform: how many folks in usa went on an airplane even once? did it not occur to not buy return ticket?
asciilifeform: even as thought experiment
PeterL: this is the best country evar, why would I leave?
ben_vulpes: "but muh jerb"
mircea_popescu: PeterL it has its disadvantages.
asciilifeform: 'Kazakhstan! greatest country in the world! all other countrys are run by little girls...' (tm)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the problem with jurisdictions discussed recentlier is deeper than it seems. plenty of usians do not think other places are "real places".
PeterL: plus, most of them would say they *could* leave, if they wanted to
ben_vulpes: i *would* leave if i *could*
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is not accidental. folks who travel from usa to english-speaking (or most western eu in general) aren't actually leaving the empire
asciilifeform: and hence 'not real places' is factual
mircea_popescu: which is why stuff like "putin doesn't understand how thw world works" can be said with a straight face
mircea_popescu: for a good chunk of the audience, this is actually so. it's not even a real country.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, because they stick to the touristy traps anywhere. stopped for coffee earlier at whorehouse cafe, table across two lost derps with ipad propped on "south america on a shoestring". muy confused.
asciilifeform: 'Ist dis Nazi Land so good? Would you leave it if you could? Ja, dis Nazi Land ist good! We would leave if we could.' ('der fuhrer's face', 1942)
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: oh hey can we do the whorehouse cafe?
mircea_popescu: haha, re that, must has animaniacs
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes sure.
asciilifeform: that was a 'donald duck'
assbot: Animaniacs - Schnitzelbank - YouTube ... ( )
assbot: Donald Duck der Nazi - YouTube ... ( )
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> << "americans ruin everything" - lady v
assbot: Animaniacs - Schnitzelbank - YouTube ... ( )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: "but muh jerb" << when you open a metal shop in #b-a, perhaps i can go and work sweeping floor there.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes lol
ben_vulpes: myeah she's a chuckle.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: it'll probably be well outside of city limits
ben_vulpes: nearer that southern port city
assbot: U.S. Army - Booby Traps - Banned Cartoons - YouTube ... ( )
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 21:00:49; asciilifeform: the option of not having the bugs is presented as not even thinkable.
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2015 02:22:03; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the problem with jurisdictions discussed recentlier is deeper than it seems. plenty of usians do not think other places are "real places".
mircea_popescu: lots of "unthinkables" needed to keep the soviets going.
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 21:47:01; decimation: the developer in question had already made a deal with apple to publish the app apparently. I couldn't even compile my own version unsigned for my own personal use
mircea_popescu: apple "open" : we'll give you some fiction to read while the thing boots ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: rms has a term of art for it, 'tivoization'
mircea_popescu: << except a)nobody trusts it and b) it doesn't actually trust anyone. lots of scammy devs make it on account of w/e fee.
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 21:56:58; decimation: on the other hand, perhaps apple is just trying to 'enumerate goodness' in its 'forced wot'
mircea_popescu: heck, zinga still exists on apple right ?
mircea_popescu: << since no more welfare, so idiots either starve or slave.
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 21:59:40; nubbins`: *i* won't buy it, but since when does the market cater to rational actors?
mircea_popescu: << this is kinda how the illegal racing world works.
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 22:02:30; pete_dushenski: buy a honda, insert own custom ferrari engine
cazalla: felipelalli: I ran to to read something about that and for my surprise I didn't find anything. But now I understand why. Not fully yet, but I can at least understand your point of view. <<< fwiw i would never lend bitcoin to people on btcjam regardless of their ability to pay back, i'd never use the site to borrow either, so i guess it's not so difficult to see why i would not write a story on it either
cazalla: felipelalli, if you only use it to borrow, i don't really see the problem with you using it, but i'd never lend
mircea_popescu: how are silk road copycats supposed to make enough to run away with if you won't give the pillheads "loans" yo ?
mircea_popescu: think of the children!
ben_vulpes: we've been looking into the apple "enterprise deployment" story of late
ben_vulpes: always keeping in mind that it is a rug
ben_vulpes: and the ghost of steve is yet prepared to rip it out from beneath us
mircea_popescu: i briefly considered adding an apple apps thing for
mircea_popescu: the idea... died.
ben_vulpes: apple is pretty much anathema to the #b-a approach to compute.
mircea_popescu: or to any approach that includes anyone but apple making money.
ben_vulpes: one of the reasons i'm not targeting macos for RI builds.
mircea_popescu: << isn't that how that kid got shot with a nailgun by andreas antonoderpopolous ?
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 22:31:05; decimation: sure, let me know if you find an open repo with all academic pubs present, updated regularly
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47650 @ 0.00027195 = 12.9584 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 22:33:07; nubbins`: fwiw "everything is online now" people generally miss out on a broad spectrum of opportunity
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: reminiscent of anthill chick
mircea_popescu: notrly. this is fun.
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 22:40:21; asciilifeform: most of the time when i go to that library it isn't even for a specific rational purpose
danielpbarron: in comments for that disney nazi thing: "Who im german and I dont like this we are nice and hittler whs the only bad german"
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 22:51:01; PeterL: new #B-A need: print off all the articles and store in a library
assbot: How to deal with pseudoscience ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: but i can envisage the day when a) all science is published via b-a, and to read... get in wot
mircea_popescu: << at least originally. prolly split off on its own thing once it gets big.
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 22:55:01; PeterL: would deedbot be a suitable place to publish scientific research?
mircea_popescu: << same mechanbism as to produce the good code separately. sign and wot.
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 22:59:27; asciilifeform: we don't have a mechanism for producing the good stuff separately, yet.
asciilifeform: nono not that part
asciilifeform: the what-do-they-eat.
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 23:04:58; trinque: asciilifeform: I have long wanted a system where member nodes can all publish wads 'o gpg stuff, peers don't know the contents of the wad, give each-other redundancy
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform eat ?
mircea_popescu: what is this, the future ?
mircea_popescu: geniuses don't eat
mircea_popescu: geniuses starve.
asciilifeform: [insert army of the dead scene from 'lord of rings']
asciilifeform: ^ best geniuses are undead
mircea_popescu: looky here : ALL the problems of modern academia, from faux psychiatry used to cover up for govt failure to faux "earth sciences" used to cover up for govt failure to the diploma mill etc
felipelalli: Thank you cazalla
mircea_popescu: they ALL stem from the mistaken idea that creators should be able to eat, and the typiocally american (ie, fucktarded and grossly ignorant) solutions attempted.
mircea_popescu: the moment creation is +EV, all the narcisists flood in and destroy thinking.
asciilifeform: they ALL stem from the mistaken idea that creators should be able to eat << mircea_popescu suggests they should photosynthesize ?
mircea_popescu: stick with the day job.
mircea_popescu: thinking can never be a job.
danielpbarron: felipelalli, are you familiar with deedbot?
cazalla: felipelalli, also i don't place much faith in how they identify people, a driver's licence, electricity bill.. worth just as much as newly created wot identity with no feedback.. plus the sort of person who needs to borrow $500 is the sort of person who would lift things such as a drivers licence from parents/friends/partners wallet anyway
mircea_popescu: all the schmuckodon in "bitcoin business" comes from the completely irrational expectations of all these schmucks that they can earn a living "being" "ceo"s.
felipelalli: danielpbarron: no, I'm sorry.
ben_vulpes: cazalla, felipelalli: identity is not the important bit. trustworthiness is. no drivers license or electric bill proves trustworthiness.
asciilifeform: actual ceo also earns a living
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2015 01:59:35; felipelalli: Let me ask one think out of the context: isn't gpg contract useless without some "proof of existence", published in Blockchain, e.g.?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not for BEING.
mircea_popescu: he has an actual day job.
cazalla: ben_vulpes, yeah, summed it up better than how i explained it
felipelalli: ben_vulpes: I can't agree more.
asciilifeform: but, typically, not 'day job' in the 'schmuck who will starve after N paycheques skipped' sense
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nevertheless.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: how many is N to you?
mircea_popescu: he doesn't have to starve at all. he just has to not expect to suport self by singing-songwriting.
asciilifeform: any integer N meant here
felipelalli: danielpbarron: is that? os something else?
assbot: bitrecruiter/deedBot · GitHub ... ( )
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: even the CEO will drain his accounts after...10? 20? years without income.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: how long it would take for herr buffett to drain ?
assbot: Page not found pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes no he won't lol.
mircea_popescu: no sane ceo actuallyhas to work, ever.
ben_vulpes: the americans "CEO" on hookers and blow.
asciilifeform: no sane ceo actuallyhas to work, ever << so then!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not because he is geniuz!
felipelalli: as a bitcoin gosthbusters are you guys are, is this scam?
assbot: maraoz/proofofexistence · GitHub ... ( )
mircea_popescu: because he is wealthy. different thing entirely.
mircea_popescu: !s proofofexistence
assbot: 7 results for 'proofofexistence' :
ben_vulpes: "proof of existence" << sad story of not being in the wot and ergo not mattering.
mircea_popescu: pretty much that.
mircea_popescu: << i honestly don't give a shit about those 1000tb. for very similar reasons as ^
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 23:10:54; asciilifeform: since mircea_popescu is out, i will fill in for him and observe that library of alexandria burning is no loss, when cockroaches evolve and replace man they will rediscover everything.
mircea_popescu: as discussed in the pseudoscience bit : unless you folks start quoting it to me, it's just another bit of anglowank, couldn't care less.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: incidentally, neal stephenson (in fiction) proposed a pill against 'the moment creation is +EV, all the narcisists flood in' - monasteries
mircea_popescu: experimentally doesn't work.
asciilifeform: -ev, but no day job, you pay with pain
asciilifeform: and obscurity
mircea_popescu: colleges started out as monasteries.
mircea_popescu: and before those, knighthoods
mircea_popescu: both failed, spectacularly so.
mircea_popescu: took a while, but i suspect more due to slow comms at the time.
ben_vulpes: gotta breed.
ben_vulpes: more importantly, hammer idiocy out of each succesive generation.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: in stephenson's world, they didn't need to. collected unwanted children from outside.
asciilifeform: and grew them with discipline
mircea_popescu: << yet another google failure at mattering in social.
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 23:17:58; asciilifeform: and before that, they glommed it into their idiot 'google groups' thing
ben_vulpes: yes, i recall.
ben_vulpes: who though will start this monastery today?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this modesty... fuck that. collect the most desirable children from outside : teenaged women with big tits.
mircea_popescu: fuck the outside.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i wasn't suggesting it as a practical recipe. more of an overall reagent.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: collect the most desirable children from outside : teenaged women with big tits << building harem then, not mathematical monastery, i take it.
asciilifeform: we already know how harems built
mircea_popescu: << this. they hire "the best", ye, young schmucks.
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 23:19:31; decimation: I doubt 99% of folks inside google even know/care
decimation: < big black guy who plays linemen for the baltimore ravens just published a mathmatics paper entitled "A Cascadic Multigrid Algorithm for Computing the Fiedler Vector"
assbot: John Urschel, Ravens Offensive Lineman, Publishes Math Paper : The Two-Way : NPR ... ( )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just making the point that if you're going for your reagent, make the relative situation obvious : the outside world is despised.
decimation: there's some genetic intelligence for you
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the outside world is despised << in the book, this was underscored on every page. and the degeneracy depicted also.
mircea_popescu: well then why take its dregs ?
ben_vulpes: there's a time tested model for this, and it's the noble family.
mircea_popescu: what, are we puritans ?
ben_vulpes: worse, americans with a do-gooder complex.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes if you mean, as in latium, then note octavianus didn't adopt random orphans a la dick tracy.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wasn't specified as 'dregs' but as children who liked to think and weren't especially missed when inducted
mircea_popescu: take the other ones.
mircea_popescu: like army. take the children women weep for. or men, in this case.
mircea_popescu: let them rebel over it, and be mowed down periodically.
asciilifeform: decimation: re: footballist and maths << napoleon has at least one theorem to his credit
mircea_popescu: that way, at least you know why you're bothering.
ben_vulpes: by their own stolen children.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes sipahi is the turkish term.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: janissary corps? why not
mircea_popescu: but with tits.
mircea_popescu: tits make everything better. and also worse.
ben_vulpes: sipahi << yeah. that berber book's really good.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: how did octavianus meet his adoptees?
mircea_popescu: exactly like we met. in the forum.
ben_vulpes: adoptee*
mircea_popescu: how else are you going to meet people ?
mircea_popescu: in the fucking bus ?
ben_vulpes: here we are again at the "no people outside the forum" checkpoint.
mircea_popescu: if you look at it, the entire history of rome, from kingdom to empire, was basically this : they had a set of benches under some trees somewhere
mircea_popescu: and some guys went to sit. and well... who sits where /
mircea_popescu: this has to be resolved, this question.
mircea_popescu: and it was.
mircea_popescu: ten million dead in galia.
decimation: ben_vulpes: no, my hypothesis is that the current us style of "just stick the money in the market and get returns" is slated for the guillotine under the new regime. < the problem isn't the passive returns, the problem is that schmoes off the street can invest
mircea_popescu: three vultures lost in the east.
decimation: anything that is 'mass adopted' is nearly by definition some kind of scam
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> three vultures lost in the east. << i do not get this reference.
asciilifeform: the 'day job' thing is more complicated than looks on the surface. a medieval serf, for instance, served for a much smaller fraction of his waking time than i or ben_vulpes do
asciilifeform: (elementary calculation re: taxation)
ben_vulpes: decimation: "schmoes" << that they have anything to invest in the first place is due to the american democracy/communism thing, from there we quickly hit the "one day bitcoin will make us all royals, and when can i lop the peasants heads off again?" checkpoint
asciilifeform: or even a generation ago, rough 'cost of life' in civilized works was a fraction of today's
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes at some point a roman army was defeated, a total of three aquillae (legion header) were lost. the romans spent a century trying to get them back, at one point famously excavating a few square miles o land
felipelalli: why deedbot- is rejecting my key? I sent and it says: "Bad URL or network outage." I also tried with the same effect
assbot: -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: SKS 1.1.5 Comment: Hostname: pgp - ... ( )
ben_vulpes: felipelalli: pastebin is banned.
mircea_popescu: it is ?!
mircea_popescu: trinque can it accept any url yet ?
ben_vulpes: lf/cr idiocy.
mircea_popescu: felipelalli use ad interim
ben_vulpes: well i've no idea how trinque's configured deedbot-, that's not my problem.
felipelalli: I also tried to paste my key there and I was disconnected due to "flood"
mircea_popescu: well yes, you're not supposed to do that.
ben_vulpes: i'm just pointing out that pastebin's not allowed in these parts.
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: so update the blog entry.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: re vultures < aaah
mircea_popescu: which entry ?
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: thank you! I'll try
assbot: [undata] Deed system for #bitcoin-assets, updated. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
mircea_popescu: !up odyjm
felipelalli: >> 1. Bot idles in chan. Upon receipt of command including pastebin link,
mircea_popescu: ah. the spec doesn't change by the implementation yo. the other way around.
mircea_popescu: also, that's a generic term :p
ben_vulpes: trinque's doing a major launch this week, i think we'll be lucky to get much of a peep out of him at all
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: interesting parallel
mircea_popescu: o you two work together was it
ben_vulpes: taxation you, i trinque pay to la serenissima is rather small
mircea_popescu: for this reason.
asciilifeform: together in the sense of usaschwitz
ben_vulpes: definitely in comparison to that required to survive in fiatland
asciilifeform has not yet met ben_vulpes in the flesh
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu, no not this year.
ben_vulpes: he has his thing, and i mine.
ben_vulpes: we live a few blocks from each other, drink each others wine, fuck each others girls
ben_vulpes: (and no, not really the latter)
asciilifeform: ^ that was trinque ?
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: no lucky with as well "Bad URL or network outage."
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 23:23:07; trinque: "don't be evil" has to be the cheesiest wink at the camera of all time
asciilifeform: i mean, ben_vulpes and trinque live a few blocks .. ?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: yeah, the thread kicked off at "<ben_vulpes> trinque's doing a major launch this week, i think we'll be lucky to get much of a peep out of him at all"
mircea_popescu: felipelalli are you using the raw or the html version ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: aha got it
felipelalli: I tried the raw first, I'll try the other
mircea_popescu: raw should work.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: now i recall, there was a thread where one of you asked the other for a smoke in-channel
mircea_popescu: felipelalli do it in here so i can see wtf ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: taxation /i/ speak of is deedbot, nsa, phundation
mircea_popescu: !up deedbot-
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: ah, i was thinking of the other taxation, where goons come and lift a penny out of every 3 i make
assbot: dpaste: 3EAX9QH ... ( )
ben_vulpes: no, i'm talking that which your lord and sovereign demands of you.
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 23:28:17; asciilifeform: where is soviet physics? mathematics ?
mircea_popescu: felipelalli bare url wouldn't conceivably work. gotta deedbot- ur;
deedbot-: imported: 9E08524833CB3038FDE385C54C0AFCCFED5CDE14
ben_vulpes: pahaha
ben_vulpes: jesus, you guys.
mircea_popescu: << fwiw, i believe this "generative years" is bullshit. it only makes sense in ossified society, because older guys have stupid shit to waste their tiem with. otherwise, in catastrophic situation, age does not matter. how old was Aeneas ?
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 23:28:44; asciilifeform: the folks not dead of drink have been driving cabs in nyc for so long as to have put their generative years firmly behind.
asciilifeform: aeneas was not a mathematician.
asciilifeform: it works more like sport.
mircea_popescu: how old was he of syracuse ?
asciilifeform: who, archimedes ?
mircea_popescu: at least five over 50, but sure, archimedes.
asciilifeform: over 50 << when did the thing they were remembered for ?
mircea_popescu: archimedes was well over 40 when he proofed that crown/
ben_vulpes: felipelalli: are you in assbot's l2?
felipelalli: ben_vulpes: I hope so.
ben_vulpes: !gettrust assbot felipelalli
assbot: Trust relationship from user assbot to user felipelalli: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. | |
mircea_popescu: newton was what, 52 ?
ben_vulpes: okay so you try it
ben_vulpes: deedbot-: <link hurr>
asciilifeform: thing is, newton's 52 is not the same as american slave's 52
mircea_popescu: for the reason i stated!
asciilifeform: certain kinds of life destroy the mind.
deedbot-: imported: 9E08524833CB3038FDE385C54C0AFCCFED5CDE14
ben_vulpes: so there ya go
felipelalli: So, private messages does not work like assbot
ben_vulpes: ,next
mircea_popescu: the delusion of "stability' and cultural insularity destroy the mind.
ben_vulpes: felipelalli: did you prepend with 'deedbot-:' ?
felipelalli: ah, I got it.
asciilifeform: actually waking up to alarm clock and sitting in an office guaranteed to destroy, regardless of what else
mircea_popescu: doubt this matters.
asciilifeform: destroys body, too
mircea_popescu: no, that's not it. theknowledge that there's going to be food at the supermarket destroys.
felipelalli: well, I'm just following wrong instructions! ;) ahhah
mircea_popescu: the notion that one shouldn't chat up the passing twelve year old, destroys.
asciilifeform: by this token every hunter-gatherer should be newton
felipelalli: now I'll try to publish a signed document.
ben_vulpes: deedbot-: help
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform only the unsuccessful ones that yet survive.
ben_vulpes: felipelalli: well check it out you got help eventually
ben_vulpes: trinque's a busy man. it'll get hammered into shape...eventually.
ben_vulpes: "two weeks!"
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 23:31:32; pete_dushenski: i'm generally curious about the merits of their decade and change of research
mircea_popescu: mostly because early form of what was later copied by russians.
mircea_popescu: "monastery" of sorts.
asciilifeform: so there we go
asciilifeform: monasteries - work.
asciilifeform: keeps the narcissomaniacs out, etc.
asciilifeform: the occasional impalement also helps
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform listen, "works" in this context is you saying "so there we go, c works"
mircea_popescu: sure it works, if you want the suckiest thing that'll still do the job.
ben_vulpes: catch y'all later.
deedbot-: rejected: 1
asciilifeform: works in the sense of 'were so l337 that we're still cribbing off their tech notebook and can never hope to match'
mircea_popescu: just look at enigma machine to get out of that infatuation.
asciilifeform: enigma was built by a pole!
mircea_popescu: look at what they thought radar is.
asciilifeform: reich had perfectly passable radar
mircea_popescu: look at the stupid rocket-planor thing. etc. derpy as it gets.
asciilifeform: did not, iirc, have the klystron though
mircea_popescu: passable 1!?
felipelalli: why my doc was rejected?
decimation: enigma was broken by the poles
assbot: German Radar ... ( )
asciilifeform: decimation: also designed by a pole
asciilifeform: in 1920s, iirc
asciilifeform: as commercial product
asciilifeform: nothing german about it
mircea_popescu: << there's thirty million helgas out there, get your ass on tinder.
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 23:41:48; pete_dushenski: i really don't know any other german speakers with whom to converse
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nothing but the fact they used it.
felipelalli: ben_vulpes: do you know why my doc was rejected?
asciilifeform: incidentally none of the allied crypto (other than vernam, aka otp, which was also used in germany) was in any way superior to enigma
mircea_popescu: at the time.
mircea_popescu: your statement was, and i quote, ' we're still cribbing off their tech notebook and can never hope to match'
decimation: asciilifeform: no, it was more the fact that turing had the pole's cryptanalysis to crib off of
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes, we're not literally stuck with 1930s tech. for the most part. organic chemistry has not really moved very far since
asciilifeform: folks are still wearing the same synthetic fibres used in german uniforms, made in same way
asciilifeform: and so forth
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2015 00:14:17; felipelalli: thestringpuller: but "the repayment rate" does not depends (also) on the investor? He can choose the investments he wants to make. I was being lucky, or I made good choices.
assbot: How to make money on the Internet while pretending you know what you're talking about and accumulating a legion of mindless followers - for fun and profit! pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
decimation: german acrylic paints
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform has moved way far, you kidding ?! organic is more advanced as to what it was in 1930 than computing.
mircea_popescu: shit, state of the art 1930 plastics was linoleum and ebonite.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: speaking of basic techniques, rather than products
mircea_popescu: even basic techniques.
asciilifeform: i'll let PeterL settle this one when he returns
mircea_popescu: we have mass fucking spectrometers that work!
mircea_popescu: recall that article about the new antibiotic found in soil sample ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: interestingly, pretty much nobody used these for the first 20 or so years they existed
felipelalli: my sister works with mass spectrometers.
mircea_popescu: cause no computers.
mircea_popescu: you can'treally use them by hand.
asciilifeform: because everything they can do, traditional analytic chem can also do
asciilifeform: but takes craft
mircea_popescu: because nobody uses car w/o gasoline.
asciilifeform: this also
asciilifeform: but my observation holds
deedbot-: rejected: 1
asciilifeform: you don't actually -need- gas chromatograph for anything, in the sense of experiment being entirely unworkable without it
asciilifeform: it merely saves time, effort, skill, cost.
asciilifeform: ditto mass spec
mircea_popescu: you don't need rocks for anything either, can just throw your own shit
asciilifeform: think this way: consider the palpable progress in chemical industry 1900-40
asciilifeform: vs 1970-now
asciilifeform: (lacking spectrometers, etc. vs. having)
mircea_popescu: and yes experiment is entirely unworkable without it. there's no nazi genome sequence variant. know why ?
mircea_popescu: there's no nazi fold@home. know why ?
asciilifeform: well sure
asciilifeform: didn't say computer was entirely useless
mircea_popescu: right. quantity has a quality all of its own.
mircea_popescu: this, mind, isn't jus comptuer. computer is the adjunct.
asciilifeform: but going back in archives, i am perpetually astonished at what was accomplished by men who never saw not only computer but plastic bag.
decimation: the germans had the first programmable electromechanical computer by the way
mircea_popescu: or zipper. sure.
asciilifeform: decimation: aha, konrad zuse and 'plankalkule'
decimation: the nazi gov. was too dumb to fund it though, or apply it to obvious uses
mircea_popescu: << check it out, Pierre_Rochard gets the cookie for having asked the right question. i finally understand what felipelalli's usecase actually was.
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2015 01:06:05; felipelalli: Itaú normal interest rate: 7% PER MONTH. My interest rate in Itaú (because I am an old client): 4.8%. BTCJam: 2.8%. It makes a huge difference when you calculate the compound interest per year.
asciilifeform: not dumb per se. just thought 'thinkers should have day jobs'
mircea_popescu: "i live in a shit country, borrowing directly from bezzle is way better than going through local banks"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let me put it another way, maybe it washes better.
mircea_popescu: before you get to think you get to have "ideas" you must do sufficient useful work to support yourself with. whether you do it in a year or a decade or over rest of your life, your choice.
mircea_popescu: but people who can not support self are not fit to think,
danielpbarron: felipelalli, you're signing with a different key than the one you registered with
mircea_popescu: much like women that can't cook aren't fit to marry.
asciilifeform: guess herr zuse didn't know how to both invent first computer -and- self-support
asciilifeform: so they didn't really need computer.
mircea_popescu: i am not going to be swayed by examples, for the following reason : of course you're going to lose something.
mircea_popescu: this is a given : no matter which way you go, you lose something.
asciilifeform wasn't even trying to sway anyone. but must point out the dismal history.
mircea_popescu: if you persecute gays, you fuck up turing. if you don't, you end up with that transhumanist singer-songwriter with the turkey hairdo schmuck.
mircea_popescu: so, this given : i dun care who dun like it, i'd rather have silence than the motherfucking deluge of shit
asciilifeform: i'll explain what was meant. generally i'm in favour of less arbeit macht frei for everyone.
mircea_popescu: "with some good things in it"
asciilifeform: shoot the shit producers, problem solved
felipelalli: danielpbarron: my company key. I'm sorry!
mircea_popescu: the men holding the rifles work on z80s.
mircea_popescu: nice find dpb.
asciilifeform: i don't see the inevitable dichotomy between 'world flooded with shit' and 'arbeit macht frei'
mircea_popescu: maybe you have a point there.
mircea_popescu: fortunately, i am not in a position to make this call. for which i am thankful.
asciilifeform: to put it from own perspective, i'm not sure what serenissima wins from me spending most of every day working with winblows virii
assbot: Logged on 28-01-2015 00:52:58; asciilifeform: and am i the only one who actually checks sigs
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at least formally this irritates me, because it's the ancient "la ce-mi serveste mie radicalurile" sophomore complaint.
asciilifeform: what was this
mircea_popescu: how the fuck should i know, and what difference does it make you don't.
asciilifeform: (i can guess)
mircea_popescu: "what's the use of square rooting to me!"
assbot: La ce imi serveste mie radicalurile ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( )
asciilifeform: square rooting, though, i can entirely see
asciilifeform: let's focus on interesting people for a moment. kepler, say. spent a good chunk of his time at day job - astrology.
mircea_popescu: the burning question, however, is why do you think your seeing is the pivot of this matter.
asciilifeform: this is why trying to show more objective example
mircea_popescu: let me tell you a story, put this into perspective.
mircea_popescu: at my day job, i am a manager. it's what i do. or used to, b. b., but w/e.
asciilifeform: we don't win from kepler's day job
mircea_popescu: if an underlying comes to me with "here's the problem, what should we do", i fire him.
mircea_popescu: the proper form is, "here's the problem, here are 3 solutions, which do we pick", and he should fucking know this by now.
mircea_popescu: it would seem to me you are managing like an illusionist not like a manager, which is to say, comparing with some sort of null hypothesis / god's footsteps / whatever.
mircea_popescu: this is just not how things work.
deedbot-: accepted: 1
trinque: hey lookie there
felipelalli: wow, this is perfect.
trinque: did it all by himself
mircea_popescu waves at trinque
trinque: holy fuck I step away for a minute :D
trinque: sup guys
asciilifeform: wasn't trying to describe a management method, but simply banal observation that kepler's day job (forget mine) is to be counted on the -sad- part of the ledger
mircea_popescu: but this is a management discussion.
trinque: felipelalli: bad sig before?
danielpbarron: "I love ass channel. Ditto." << the deeded message btw
mircea_popescu: "what should do" is management just like "what voltage" is e e.
felipelalli: trinque: I forgot to use -u ED5CDE14
trinque: felipelalli: that will do it.
felipelalli: and it was using my company's key Walltime
trinque: no problemo, glad it worked for ya
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how much irrelevant drudgery is the right amount? would we have more newtoniana if he had broken rocks at butugychag for p % of his day ?
mircea_popescu: trinque e) any url!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why do you expect this to be knowable!
mircea_popescu: think in terms of women, easier to think. "is this the right woman for me, for my life ?"
asciilifeform: i say 0. but mircea_popescu, i think, says p is a positive integer
mircea_popescu: wtf sort of inquiry is this!
felipelalli: the doc was accepted, but and now?
trinque: pastebin is not banned
trinque: raw urls
trinque: consider, the page has shitloads of html, is not raw text...
mircea_popescu: could i get accepted ?
trinque: mircea_popescu: yeah np
mircea_popescu: ah coolness.
mircea_popescu: well, back to your launch lol.
trinque: launch is ready!
trinque: week early, one man band
trinque: hair almost still intact
felipelalli: trinque: now deedbot- will contact me sending the URL to blockchain published doc?
trinque: felipelalli: heh no, I will.
decimation: > " Einen Antrag zur Förderung einer elektronischen Nachfolgeversion der Z-3, den sein Mit- arbeiter Elektroingenieur Helmut Schreyer stellte, lehnte die deutsche Reichsregierung als »nicht kriegswichtig« ab (Petzold 1985: 316). " They tried to get the nazi gov to pay for the advancement of the Z-3, but it was deemed "not war-worthy"
trinque: felipelalli: shall be at in 5min+next_block
felipelalli: trinque: are you the dwarf behind him, han? :)
asciilifeform: decimation: i'm not certain they were wrong
trinque: felipelalli: I'll have you know I am of middling height!
mircea_popescu: in the end, the z's were not really useful past psychology, were they ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you mean the v-s?
felipelalli: !rate trinque 1 "the dwarf behind deedbot"
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP:
mircea_popescu: ah yes, the v's.
mircea_popescu: da fuck is z-3 ?!
trinque: felipelalli: lol
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: zuse's computer
decimation: zuse's computer
mircea_popescu: ah nm me.
asciilifeform: built out of phone exchange relays, in his mother's kitchen, iirc
decimation: it was electromechanical, not purely electric
mircea_popescu: right, referenced above, exactly. i lost a thread.
asciilifeform: ;;google plankalkül
gribble: Plankalkül - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <>; Plankalkul | computer language | Encyclopedia Britannica: <>; Konrad Zuse - ACM Digital Library: <>
decimation: as I recall, colossus was the first fully electric computer, built by Flowers at the proto-gchq
asciilifeform: not fully electric
asciilifeform: had paper roll.
felipelalli: trinque: why only 6 docs? Is that a new service, isn't it used that much or it is only the current day?
decimation: aye, I linked a movie of a replica running earlier, will dig it up. I saw it in person actually, was quite impressive
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