Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-12-05 | 2014-12-07 → ↓
asciilifeform: these folks will eventually build arse-mouth systems and try to eat their own shit.
asciilifeform: it is the logical conclusion of their thought process.
asciilifeform: 'We laugh at that fable about the village of simpletons who, when their bed blankets became too short for their growing kids, extended these blankets by cutting off a piece from one end and sewing it to the other. Or the more modern tale of a drunkard who could afford to drink every day because he always took his empty bottles back for a deposit. And yet many otherwise intelligent people believe, apparently not stopping even f
asciilifeform: or one minute to think whether what they say makes any sense, that Henry Ford, the American entrepreneur whose worldview wouldn't probably stand much scrutiny from the modern perspective, gained his place in the canon of progressive feelgood policies for paying his workers the back then unheard-of high daily salary of $5, which made them wealthy enough to buy Ford automobiles, which in turn made the Ford company profitable.' (
asciilifeform: ilkka kokkarinen)
decimation: the empty bottles in this case being the legacy of unix, in its million forms
decimation: really, it's all just an extension of the lowly spammers desire to make money while he sleeps
gernika: Man. I used to subscribe to this forum called the Micropreneuer academy. I see now that this was exactly their propsal: spam to make money while you sleep.
asciilifeform: a spammer is ridiculous not because he wishes to make money while sleeping, but because he is willing to work an 18 hour day to do it.
gernika: Exactly. I slept very little while I was trying to follow their recipe.
gernika: These people were constantly working
gernika: And at the same time calling it passive income.
gernika: Whatever scheme they came up with inevitably ran out of steam after at most a few years.
gernika: There was a constant search for some unexploited google search phrase
asciilifeform: briefly back to the earlier thread: no one should be surprised if a thing like 'joyent' turns into a vehicle for some imbecile's masturbatory 'justice' fantasies
asciilifeform: it was never anything else to begin with
asciilifeform: nor the pseudo-industry it was part of
asciilifeform: (original site down)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10508 @ 0.00044425 = 4.6682 BTC [+]
undata: decimation | really, it's all just an extension of the lowly spammers desire to make money while he sleeps << cheap credit spawned a generation of these
assbot: Robert Kiyosaki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1z5Yuyd )
undata: several generations of Americans at least believe that this is precisely what success looks like: you buy and sell a few houses and your life is on autopilot from then on
mircea_popescu: gernika this wouldn't be something called Room77 ?
mircea_popescu: mthreat not so sure what starbucks measures.
gernika: mircea_popescu I have not heard of Room77 - google tells me it's some sort of hotel site.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> honouring the 'lifetime warranty' for all the chumps put together - would this even add up to the cost of one lawyer-week ? << it makes no sense to me either.
mircea_popescu: gernika also in k
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> reading for the first time about 'joyent', i couldn't help but wonder - what are these 'technologies' actually for? if they were erased from the good earth overnight, would i notice ? <<< if node.js were erased you would notice.
mircea_popescu: just like if fat women were erased from the world you'd notice.
mircea_popescu: better internet, better world.
undata: at least it's chum for bad developers
undata: you know where they're at
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> ilkka kokkarinen) << there is some merit to the ford story, but specifically, that he majorily cut down on staff turnover by "overpaying". except all the other idiots were not accounting for training costs (in the form of, not building anything too complex)
mircea_popescu: so it gave him an unassailable advantage for just long enough.
mircea_popescu: undata sure, except for the obnoxious "prevailin business practices" bit.
gernika: mircea_popescu actually yes, that looks familiar
mircea_popescu: prev heard good things of it which is why i asked.
mircea_popescu: i suppose it's not time-invariant.
gernika: I had a burrito there. It was not a great burrito. The interior was quite drab.
mircea_popescu: german burrito ? that's a thought.
mircea_popescu: (speaking of which, the doner in germany surpasses the doner in turkey i hear)
gernika: I agree - a german burrito seemed unappealing just as a concept, let alone as something concrete made out of that run down kitchen, but apparently at the time I thought that was my best option.
gernika: Hmm doner looks good, never had it before.
mircea_popescu: i thought it's the world's most popular fast food dish
mircea_popescu: (in the civilised sense of that term, not the usian sense of it0
gernika: The world doesn't work like that here.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56600 @ 0.00044531 = 25.2045 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18979 @ 0.00044593 = 8.4633 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: and with that i wish you a merry christmas!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70300 @ 0.00044664 = 31.3988 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43500 @ 0.00044835 = 19.5032 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81350 @ 0.00045067 = 36.662 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51905 @ 0.00045208 = 23.4652 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34550 @ 0.0004513 = 15.5924 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31649 @ 0.00044879 = 14.2038 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38900 @ 0.00045822 = 17.8248 BTC [+] {2}
cazalla: back to ddosing websites by the looks of it
undata: cazalla: yep
undata: over here too
punkman: yeah
punkman: trilema down too
undata: damn kids
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61708 @ 0.00046595 = 28.7528 BTC [+] {3}
undata: needs moar 402: Payment Required
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11800 @ 0.00048821 = 5.7609 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22137 @ 0.00047442 = 10.5022 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9852 @ 0.00045128 = 4.446 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8707 @ 0.00048931 = 4.2604 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44462 @ 0.00047201 = 20.9865 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3938 @ 0.00049046 = 1.9314 BTC [+]
assbot: Hutzler Banana Slicer Cutter Great for Cereal/Sandwitches/Splits/Hot Dogs NEW: Amazon.co.uk: Kitchen & Home ... ( http://bit.ly/1w9m6mr )
jurov: lots of simlar paraphernalia linked
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17464 @ 0.00047769 = 8.3424 BTC [-]
cazalla: another guy has team viewer installed on same machine as wallet and loses 40 btc lol https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2og50r/im_devastated_got_hacked_and_lost_405_btcs_please/
assbot: I'm devastated, got hacked and lost 40.5 BTCs. Please, help me find who did it : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1u3aoCw )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00050379 = 6.4485 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38200 @ 0.00050379 = 19.2448 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45086 @ 0.00049962 = 22.5259 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19814 @ 0.00046752 = 9.2634 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21900 @ 0.00050679 = 11.0987 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49539 @ 0.00049914 = 24.7269 BTC [-] {2}
mats_cd03: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 374.46, Best ask: 375.62, Bid-ask spread: 1.16000, Last trade: 375.62, 24 hour volume: 5384.28194357, 24 hour low: 370.25, 24 hour high: 377.89, 24 hour vwap: 374.00473742
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54121 @ 0.00050077 = 27.1022 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00051224 = 2.5612 BTC [+]
mats_cd03: it rises
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22872 @ 0.00051134 = 11.6954 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27301 @ 0.00050831 = 13.8774 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65598 @ 0.00045971 = 30.1561 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5702 @ 0.00045569 = 2.5983 BTC [-]
mats_cd03: im not talking about the chart
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45850 @ 0.00049246 = 22.5793 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10350 @ 0.00045849 = 4.7454 BTC [-]
assbot: Safety, liveness and fault tolerance—the consensus choices | Stellar ... ( http://bit.ly/1G2ZyFf )
gernika: Stellar forked
gernika: and has "temporarily" recentralized
Namworld: uh... Facebook ads system numbers are dodgy... I got a 35% click through rate. What kind of ads get a 35% click through rate? 1 click for 3 impressions.
punkman: there are countless ad clicking bots on Facebook, doing "competitive intelligence"
mircea_popescu: cazalla: back to ddosing websites by the looks of it << did it only last 5 minutes or do i liek magically not see it again
kakobrekla: 1h55m
mircea_popescu: duude s.mpoe 50 almost ?
mircea_popescu: bwahaha. MEAT TONIGHT!
mircea_popescu: gernika: and has "temporarily" recentralized << lawl, for "everyone's proteciton" ?
mircea_popescu: Namworld: uh... Facebook ads system numbers are dodgy <<< welcome to the club ? fb is a scam. this has been said here i dunno how many times, but by pretty much everyone ever involved.
assbot: Logged on 07-02-2014 20:43:36; ThickAsThieves: facebook ads are the worst performance of like all options, other than for some very specific uses
mircea_popescu: and when he says very specific uses, what he means is stuff like
mircea_popescu: ;;google how i trolled my imbecile roommate by custom tailoring the ads facebook showed him (nevermind what either having roommates or hanging out with imbeciles says about me).
gribble: No matches found.
assbot: Roommate Buys Facebook Ads to Creep Out His Friend and Practice Targeted Marketing | Adweek ... ( http://bit.ly/1G318ab )
mircea_popescu: shockingly, this is in adweek, a wanna-be trade rag.
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 712 @ 0.00328156 = 2.3365 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1061 @ 0.00124 = 1.3156 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 849 @ 0.00123999 = 1.0528 BTC [-] {2}
Namworld: Oh yeah, that thing. It's so funny
punkman: Namworld: if enough volume, you gotta look at your logs and ask them to refund some of the scamclicks
mircea_popescu: generally the business experience on the topic being that paying for someone to do the tech part and for someone to do the business part comes to 1-35% more than the value of the refunded clicks.
Namworld: Funny enough, it's targeted at both men and women that talk/liked pages related to Bitcoin.
Namworld: The demographic isn't as random as I'd usually see, it's 66% males between 18-35
mircea_popescu: <undata> several generations of Americans at least believe that this is precisely what success looks like: you buy and sell a few houses and your life is on autopilot from then on << in their defense, all generations since the industrial revolution chiefly believed that this is what success looks like : you do a few things and that's that.
mircea_popescu: notably, athletes at the turn of the century (their dream briefly came through in the 60s, now it seems fucked again), and military men althrough the 1800s.
mircea_popescu: Namworld speaking of nonrandom demos : https://www.quantcast.com/qntra.net
assbot: Qntra.net Traffic and Demographic Statistics by Quantcast ... ( http://bit.ly/1G33Fky )
mircea_popescu: female index .13, black index 0.3
mircea_popescu: because brothers before bitchez, yo!
mircea_popescu: Namworld how much did you pay btw ?
Namworld: Eh, $50 for the heck of it and there was actually sales, but I didn't put a tracking link so hard to say. I have to change that immediately.
Namworld: Will have to derp some more around and complain for free credits.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00051189 = 4.863 BTC [+]
gernika: mircea_popescu: "When given the choice between temporary centralization and guaranteeing the security of the protocol and therefore user funds, the choice is obvious. Once the new consensus algorithm is complete, it will be safe to run with more than one node again." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8709514
assbot: Joyce from Stellar here. Yes, that is correct. When given the choice between tem... | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/1G34g5Z )
mircea_popescu: gernika lulzy. i wonder if we see the same nonsense emerge in btc.
mircea_popescu: of course, they manage to not even correctly state the choice.
mircea_popescu: obviously if given the incorrectly statement "choice is obvious". a whole new mode of rational failure the us invented, "begging "the obvious" choice", similar to "begging the question"
Namworld: It might be that facebook ad bots don't tend to have Bitcoin in their interest... at least yet. Hence why demographic looks accurate.
mircea_popescu: but the actual choice is between "destroying the long term viability of the coin through introducing precedent - certain to be followed - of converting it overnight into a centrally owned resource" and "destroying the long term viability of the coin through introducing precedent of arbitrarily lost funds"
mircea_popescu: neither of these being either obvious or desirable, and their conjunction being why the coin in question - stellar or whatever - is dead.
mircea_popescu: Namworld how did you select that demo exactly ?
asciilifeform: first comment in above link has it: 'How'd you centralize your decentralized system? It sounds like something that shouldn't be possible unless it's actually centralized to begin with.'
punkman: I don't think Stellar was ever decentralized. They just had more than one server.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nm that!
gernika: punkman: polycentralized. Now it's just monodecentralized.
asciilifeform: recall the 'software does not wear out' article.
asciilifeform: if you can do the 'centralize' trick, it was always defective.
punkman: asciilifeform: you could run your own private bitcoin, or private Tor network, or whatever
asciilifeform: (not because there had to be a mechanical defense against it. no mechanical pill against 'buy all the coins and throw into the sea.' but attempting this gambit, given a properly-designed coin, should cost above $maxint.)
Namworld: Just by selecting people that have "Bitcoin" in their interests.
mircea_popescu: o by hand ?
asciilifeform: punkman: anyone using such a thing deserves what he gets
Namworld: No, just by adding the term Bitcoin to targeting. So basically people that liked pages and so on or occasionally mention the term "Bitcoin", I believe.
Namworld: So unless there's other Bitcoin advertisers running bots, unlikely to target bot accounts. But stats still points to dodgy stuff. So I guess the majority is still bots.
mircea_popescu: Namworld can you be bothered to run a similar thing for me ? it's been half a year since i last tried them, moar lulz can't hurt.
Namworld: I guess there's already people there.
mircea_popescu: that's what god invented 0.1 anyway
Namworld: Eh, Facebook is either shit at filtering bots or just plain out scammers.
Namworld: I guess I could run something for you
gernika: I was able to collect email addresses via a signup page running an FB campaign at one time. Don't recall the conversion percentage at the moment but at that time at least there were real people clicking.
assbot: Bitcoin in Argentina : exactly nothing to do with the derps pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8pRYk )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21350 @ 0.00051439 = 10.9822 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1362 @ 0.00123575 = 1.6831 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25100 @ 0.00052396 = 13.1514 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9950 @ 0.00051189 = 5.0933 BTC [-]
assbot: More drama at Mt. Gox - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1z8ufH1 )
Namworld: Drama -> repackage into advertising -> ???derping??? -> profit
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46400 @ 0.00052423 = 24.3243 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: <mats_cd03> ben_vulpes: what do you need that for? << 's a joke
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11867 @ 0.00052591 = 6.241 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: "To me, that insistence can only come from one place: that gender—specifically, masculinity—is inextricably linked to software" << or perhaps that that pronouns are gendered in better languages than engris but whatever
ben_vulpes: THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE INTERPRETATION
ben_vulpes: HEAR ME ROAR
ben_vulpes: paas wars are the db wars of 2015
ben_vulpes: undata: "street tax" << my parents have called portland a "benevolent communist state" for as long as i've lived here. it's only recently started to pass its inflection points letting the impoverished demand more and more.
ben_vulpes: once upon a time it was the schools, and there were bonds, and the people paid, and nothing changed.
ben_vulpes: now it's inanities like the street tax to pave the ghetto.
ben_vulpes: ;;calc 200/50000
gribble: 0.004
ben_vulpes: ;;calc 12/50000
gribble: 0.00024
adlai: tl;dr: ripple/stellar are a centralized exchange which publishes its customer database, and uses a hawala fork for fiat processing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65906 @ 0.00052685 = 34.7226 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: adlai: hawala fork << lol
adlai: call a spade a spade!
assbot: The Doom that Came to Puppet ... ( http://bit.ly/1tYwdUP )
Namworld: My darn cat just opens cupboard and so on and claws bag open to eat pastas and so on... I'll need big plastic container to store pasta and so on in accessible locations, and keep the rest in places he can't get in.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59050 @ 0.00052313 = 30.8908 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9828 @ 0.0005307 = 5.2157 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40400 @ 0.0005229 = 21.1252 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.0005307 = 8.3851 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32700 @ 0.00053111 = 17.3673 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Inglourious Ambassaders - The Daily Show - Video Clip | Comedy Central ... ( http://bit.ly/1tYO3qF )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50527 @ 0.00053564 = 27.0643 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE INTERPRETATION << actually, the deeper reason is that masculinity is inextricably linked to the species,
mircea_popescu: in the sense that humanity is either masculine or not worth the mention
ben_vulpes: but babes smell so nice
mircea_popescu: the various defeated and meanwhile extinct tribes from the amazon valley to the pacific rim being the exact proof of this concept.
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> now it's inanities like the street tax to pave the ghetto. << srsly, paving the ghetto, for as long as it uses forced labour of the inhabitants and very rudimentary tools, and it's done in the middle of the summer, is a splendid idea.
mircea_popescu: lol pasta cat.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes well of course they smell nice!
ben_vulpes: nice (smelling) people for governance only forever everywhere
mircea_popescu: you know babes are a vanishingly small sliver of "women"
mircea_popescu: this is like saying "honda civics forever everywhere" because "bmws are kinda cool"
mircea_popescu: adlai the only somewhat amusing / incredible if you're new thing about that entire stellar debacle is that... people still pretend like ripple's a thing.
mircea_popescu: "oh, setting our house on fire doesn't work ? I KNOW! let's set the house on fire WITH GASOLINE!"
mircea_popescu: punkman basically it meshes half sentences from the two huh.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21500 @ 0.00053414 = 11.484 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: The weird of web "metrics" pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1z9cXJN )
mircea_popescu: you were right kako-sensei
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/the-weird-of-web-metrics/
mircea_popescu: o wow it's back ?!
assbot: To Be His Keeper by A.E. van Vogt | Sevagram ... ( http://bit.ly/1z9idwO )
assbot: Buttcoin is sooo BIG in Argentina : Buttcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1z9iwYA )
mircea_popescu: lol i bet.
assbot: $296M in Bitcoin spending on Black Friday and Cyber Monday made it the 9th largest payment network in the world! http://t.co/jlTVDinyZf
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37242 @ 0.000517 = 19.2541 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: "He studied at Harvard until the First World War broke out in 1914. At that point, aged 23, he returned to Canada and joined the Canadian army in Halifax and was assigned to the Cyclist Corps of the Second Division, Canadian Expeditionary Force."
mircea_popescu: im not even sure what's funnier, wikipedia or canada.
cazalla: mircea_popescu, that is about as misleading a statement anyone could make lol
mircea_popescu: well, what else's roger ver for ?
assbot: Safety, liveness and fault tolerance—the consensus choices | Stellar ... ( http://bit.ly/1z9nNzp )
cazalla: btw, in that i lost btc with teamviewer thread, leo treasure confirmed he too had it installed when he lost 750btc
mircea_popescu: he had said so at the time iirc.
cazalla: ah, i don't recall that but no matter
decimation: undata: re: Kiyosaki << yeah I had a friend who tried to get me to go to 'rich dad poor dad' stuff. sounded like a scam, is a scam, etc.
mircea_popescu: wait, there's more to that than just a derpy book from a decade ago ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16400 @ 0.00050626 = 8.3027 BTC [-]
decimation: yeah, he went on tour with classes or something
decimation: the set of people "selling" how to get rich in the us is large
assbot: Rich Dad, Poor Dad's bankrupt company - CBS News ... ( http://bit.ly/1vYSLIg )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77491 @ 0.00049429 = 38.303 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: apparently everything anyone's doing there anymore is some sort of attempt to create a miniworld or other.
mircea_popescu: nation of cultists.
decimation: well, their forefathers all 'escaped' from europe or elsewhere
decimation: it's in the genes
mircea_popescu: what was that thing in jamestown
mircea_popescu: where they shot a tv producer and some senator ?
mircea_popescu: " That relationship generated sales of $438 million, of which Rich Global got nearly $45 million in royalties"
assbot: Jonestown - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1z9rtRG )
mircea_popescu: wow check it out, that bad ? this is like the publishing business.
mircea_popescu: decimation that's the onem right!
decimation: it was the cult where they all drank the poison kool-aid
decimation: I'm sure they got their money's worth though
mircea_popescu: you are ?
decimation: eh? I have nothing to do with these idiots
decimation: every spammer in the us works hard every day to attemp to bypass the bayes filter in my head
decimation: the other day I got a card in a hand-written envelope that was from a local car dealer
decimation: on my birthday
mircea_popescu: decimation no i mean, how are you sure they got their money's worth ?
mircea_popescu: all i ever heard about that thing was that it was a dreary shithole in the mud
decimation: well, I guess they were looking for some answers. The answer they got was: you joined a death-cult
decimation: mircea_popescu: did you see that the 'ultimates' for the sony movies were released as part of the sony hack? http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/sony-hack-reveals-top-secret-754491
assbot: Sony Hack Reveals Top-Secret Profitability of 2013 Movies - The Hollywood Reporter ... ( http://bit.ly/1z9voOs )
decimation: "“Currently, approximately $1B in production spending can be expected to deliver $500M-$600M in profits,” the letter says. “Through his continued focus on financial discipline, Doug hopes to improve that ratio to a point where $800-$900M in production spending delivers $500-$600M in profits.”"
decimation: not such a bad business actually
ben_vulpes: tax man has brought to my attention the tax benefits in this country of leasing equipment to your own companies.
decimation: ben_vulpes: like you lease your own property to the company?
ben_vulpes: well, corp a buys a machine and leases it to corp b at a "fair value".
decimation: is this to avoid the business propery tax?
ben_vulpes: hang on let me dig up the language
mircea_popescu: decimation wasn't exactly a secret, that.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yes, it's why/how ibm was originally reorganised.
mircea_popescu: general motors did the same thing and mostly survived
mircea_popescu: hence ge finance
ben_vulpes: the way i understand it is that company a owns the assets, b leases them which reduces its apparent income. lease payments come into a and are not categorized as passive investment income.
ben_vulpes is learning all sorts of things about taxes lately.
decimation: this is why it is annoying that usg taxes 'income'
decimation: I think usg should go back to just raising money from trade tariffs
mircea_popescu: trade tariffs are singularly the most stupid taxation font in existence.
mircea_popescu: inflation is actually better.
decimation: isn't an income tax a tariff on labor trade?
mircea_popescu: if you define labour as per income, then it is by definition.
mircea_popescu: the problem with tariffs is that they economically insulate their jurisdiction, and sooner or later you get left out.
mircea_popescu: in practical economic terms, the unfound amazon tribes are just keeping high import tariffs up.
decimation: yeah there's a good point there
decimation: so you are big on 'voluntary taxes'. what if someone was living in a 'voluntary tax' jurisdiction but did not pay? Do they have the same legal privleges as one who does?
decimation: my inclination is to say
decimation: 'obviously not'
decimation: but perhaps there is reason for someone to include the little people in the courts
mircea_popescu: decimation hyow the fuck are you going to achieve the respect of your peers if you're a loser lol.
mircea_popescu: what about when groups of friends go camping and some douche never buys anything ? doesn't last long does it ?
decimation: I suppose those who fail to pay tax will end up in the private courts of those who do
mircea_popescu: i doubt it.
mircea_popescu: they'll just end up exactly where they are now : five to the room, crowded in insalubrious conditions, spending their time voting on reddit
mircea_popescu: decimation it's so amusingly pervasive this. so the cbc article you linked punching holes in the rich dad thing ?
mircea_popescu: "Allan S. Roth is the founder of Wealth Logic, an hourly based financial planning and investment advisory firm that advises clients with portfolios ranging from $10,000 to over $50 million. "
mircea_popescu: as tlp would say, "don't change the system, just shuffle among its offerings"
mircea_popescu: WL good, RD bad!
decimation: heh yeah. In the us, it is common for 'regular people' to roll over their pre-tax retirement savings to investment brokers
mircea_popescu: which, incidentally, suggests to me a simple, direct and therefore likely correct explanation of the previously mysterious tendency of english-speaking thinkers to create acronyms.
mircea_popescu: if you acronym it YOU NO LONGER HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT
decimation: they generally charge 1% of the portfolio, and are not even legally held as fiduciary
mircea_popescu: and the less you think about what exactly wl, rd etc are, the better, you can just keep derping between em
jurov: NLHTTAI
mircea_popescu: decimation which is why all the legal barriers, it's basically free money for the taking
mircea_popescu: so they dun want random internet scammers and other non-proper-meta bezzlominds getting any
decimation: right, only proper friends of the bezzle get the legal privileges
mircea_popescu: "he acted as an investment broker without a license ?! AND HE DID SLIGHTLY BETTER THAN THE AVERAGE ?!?!" burn him!!1
decimation: lol speaking of which https://www.finra.org/Newsroom/NewsReleases/2013/P197636 "The Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (FINRA) today issued a voluntary Interim Form for Funding Portals designed for prospective crowdfunding portals under the JOBS Act."
assbot: FINRA Issues Voluntary Interim Form for Crowdfunding Portals - FINRA ... ( http://bit.ly/1G0zed9 )
assbot: overview for bitcoinchamp ... ( http://bit.ly/1G0zp80 )
mircea_popescu: this'd be the definition of mouthbreathing lol.
assbot: bitcoinchamp comments on Bitcoin Embassy in Argentina is HUGE! ... ( http://bit.ly/1G0zskk )
decimation: so, it's just a telephone on a wall? I don't get it
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/yes-we-can-ya-se-puede/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42812 @ 0.00049077 = 21.0108 BTC [-] {2}
undata: ben_vulpes: what engine is that?
undata: looks like atlas?
assbot: 0400007 - RS-88 Rocket Engine Tested for Pad Abort Escape System ... ( http://bit.ly/1G0HKJ2 )
undata: so pretty
decimation: ben_vulpes: I got to block 264k or something when I filled my vm's hard drive
decimation: will retool and restart.
ben_vulpes: decimation: disk storage is the *bane* of bitcoin testing.
ben_vulpes is in the process of standing up an aws instance with a full TB of storage
decimation: yeah. I thought 50gig was enough
ben_vulpes: still gonna be like sixty bucks/mo
ben_vulpes: maybe i only go with a few hundred gb
decimation: heh yeah 1 TB seems like alot
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35874 @ 0.0004832 = 17.3343 BTC [-]
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> decimation: disk storage is the *bane* of bitcoin testing. << for sure.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7257 @ 0.00048679 = 3.5326 BTC [+] {2}
cazalla: mircea_popescu, is this news that Netopia mobilPay enabled 6,000 merchants in .ro to accept bitcoin same beat up story as the trillions of .ar merchants taking it?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4305 @ 0.00048985 = 2.1088 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49490 @ 0.00049173 = 24.3357 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: cazalla from what i hear from Naphex yes, exactly same.
mircea_popescu: decimation seems that way.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes incidentally, a server or two to be used as a [l2-accessible?] bitcoin testing environment may be a great foundation expenditure
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11465 @ 0.00049515 = 5.6769 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13200 @ 0.00049566 = 6.5427 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3150 @ 0.00049552 = 1.5609 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15924 @ 0.00049203 = 7.8351 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3576 @ 0.0004832 = 1.7279 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20600 @ 0.00049624 = 10.2225 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51150 @ 0.00048296 = 24.7034 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00048785 = 3.4637 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4000 @ 0.00048276 = 1.931 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @ 0.00048785 = 1.5123 BTC [+]
TomServo: ;;blocks
gribble: 333220
mircea_popescu: wow 333`333 soon huh
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.00048276 = 5.4069 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34700 @ 0.00049525 = 17.1852 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: btcd runs with checkpoints as well
ben_vulpes: --nocheckpoints Disable built-in checkpoints. Don't do this unless you know what you're doing.
ben_vulpes wonders in what special ways btcd misbehaves without checkpoints
mircea_popescu: doesn't, really. just, slower.
ben_vulpes: why slower without checkpoints?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22124 @ 0.00048974 = 10.835 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes thinks.
Pierre_Rochard: Made a little script to help with pete_dushenski’s high-entropy wallet creation method: https://github.com/PierreRochard/entropic
assbot: PierreRochard/entropic · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1rZWuHj )
gernika: Pierre_Rochard: I was JUST searching for something like this.
ben_vulpes: checkpoints or network canvassing.
ben_vulpes: either trust the source from which you got the code or trust the network.
mircea_popescu: the proper operation of bitcoin is trustless. there's nothing it needs to trust in a no=chekcpoint scenario.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, it needs to trust the correctness of whoever made the checkpoints.
ben_vulpes: yeah.
mircea_popescu: this is afaik not controversial, to date.
mircea_popescu: (ie, the checkpoints are actually valid)
ben_vulpes: if i'm reading this correctly, checkpoints speed up the blockchain download process as signatures aren't checked, but they're assumed valid if the signature on the checkpoint blocks passes.
Pierre_Rochard: gernika: glad I could help! let me know if you have any feedback/advice
ben_vulpes: would it be possible to replace the checkpoints with randomized sampling of specific blocks' signatures?
mircea_popescu: you mean make your own checkpoints ?
ben_vulpes: on the fly, yeah.
mircea_popescu: obviously it's possible.
ben_vulpes: just spot checking my own bitcoin technical knowledge :P
gernika: Pierre_Rochard: I will probably mod it to work with my 16 sided die to save me some rolls.
ben_vulpes: obviously not a thing to work on any time soon, but a nifty idea.
mircea_popescu: anyway, they don't speed up the download per se, because blocks are still downloaded
ben_vulpes: sure, but processing is cpu bound, so if you skip ESDA there's a speedup to be had.
mircea_popescu: but they help with the indexing, which was an issue esp on bdb, and they may also help with tx related stuff
ben_vulpes: if i'm reading correctly.
Pierre_Rochard: gernika: submit a pull request if you have the time!
gernika: Pierre_Rochard: will do
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes right.
ben_vulpes: i can't help but think that the serial download is entirely unnecessary.
ben_vulpes: download the blockchain torrent style, verify and stitch the segments together as appropriate.
ben_vulpes: not like it's usable 'till you have the whole thing anyways.
ben_vulpes: totally out of scope for the forseeable future but neat nevertheless.
mircea_popescu: this is the process known as "bootstrapping"
mircea_popescu: still, as a general rule a 1 mb block takes < 1s to download and multipes s to process. makes little diff.
assbot: I'm happy they killed that nigger Eric Garner. /hashtag/Holocaust2?src=hash /hashtag/KillEmAll?src=hash
undata: "hacked" lol
mircea_popescu: ;;ud eric garner
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=buch%20dich | Eric Garner or to bend you and take it. I just go Buch diched fo shizzle so my ba Jizzy is all trippin in my ride. or. Peep dis Doto Mite, I just go Buch diched and my  ...
assbot: Julian AKA The Truth (@jyap) | Twitter ... ( http://bit.ly/1u13ezE )
Pierre_Rochard: mircea_popescu: he was selling black market cigarettes to avoid taxes. Got caught by new york police for nth time. Cop choked him. Respiratory problems. Cardiac attack. Outrage
undata: can't have people just selling things... on the street!
mircea_popescu: oh oh i recall yeah
Pierre_Rochard: the cop in question was just cleared by a grand jury of any wrong doing
mircea_popescu: guy was too fat to breathe on his back basically.
mircea_popescu: undata well, cigs you know. those evil things.
Pierre_Rochard: ^ well let’s not blame obesity! or too high of cigarette taxes! it was surely just the fascist police brutality!
ben_vulpes: plastic physical coins.
mircea_popescu: that the free and happy people of jonestown i mean new york are more than happy to pay 18 bucks for
ben_vulpes: great scam opportunity.
undata: mircea_popescu: back when I used to smoke I would only sell them to bums, never give them away
undata: that's how you get free packs of cigs
assbot: Jumbucks Does Something a Little Different » Brave New Coin ... ( http://bit.ly/1u13Wgl )
ben_vulpes: do you buy trading cards too?
undata: me? negative
mircea_popescu: one day they had one of those convict crews doing some roadwork in front o' my house as i went shopping
mircea_popescu: so i bought half a dozen cartons of romania's cheapest and threw em over when coming back.
mircea_popescu: teh guards were totally o.O'd
ben_vulpes: undata: no, nubbins`
undata: mircea_popescu: nice of ya
mircea_popescu: hopefully those folks got to live like kings for a while lol.
mircea_popescu: anyway. at the time a carton was ~$2.50
assbot: Logged on 24-10-2014 04:33:56; decimation: "There's been a mackerel economy in federal prisons since about 2004, former inmates and some prison consultants say. That's when federal prisons prohibited smoking and, by default, the cigarette pack, which was the earlier gold standard."
mircea_popescu: well this was the 90s
decimation: tossing those cigs would be even more subversive today I guess
cazalla: us prisons are smoke free zone now?
decimation: they trade tins of fish from the 'store' instead
mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 333228 | Current Difficulty: 4.000747027127126E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 334655 | Next Difficulty In: 1427 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 4 hours, 37 minutes, and 42 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 38795114854.6 | Estimated Percent Change: -3.03032
assbot: [JBS] Jumbucks | Proof of Developer ... ( http://bit.ly/1u1bsrA )
ben_vulpes: altcoinland never fails to amuse
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