Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-10-21 | 2014-10-23 → ↓
ben_vulpes: <othernubs`> ben_vulpes, speaketh << nothing strictly necessary post 0.5.3
asciilifeform: 1.20 dollars a day << ehehehe - no. not comparable figure with usa 1.20/diem. ro didn't have to pay rent, had no ruinous tax, cheap non-synthetic food even in the depths of collapse
asciilifeform: no mandatory cars to maintain
ben_vulpes: although let's be clear, i was just browsing the release notes. if there were breaking changes merged in since then, this'd be a lulzy way to surface them.
asciilifeform: no confiscatory 'health care' ripoff
asciilifeform: i could go on.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> anyway, the consensus seems to be 6.3 ? << i've yet to hear a compelling argument for anything past 0.5.3
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: let's put another way, lowest version you would be willing to use for daily life.
TheNewDeal: 0.6.3 is?
ben_vulpes: i'm transitioning backwards asciilifeform
ben_vulpes: i still depend on the qt client. need to come up with a workflow that works for the 0.5.3 client.
ben_vulpes: but i don't see any roadblocks at this time.
asciilifeform: i never really grasped what the gui was for
asciilifeform: even winblows user could handily pop the dos shell and 'bitcoind sendtoaddress .....'
ben_vulpes: well, consider all the things i've been unlearning
ben_vulpes: you: grew up on lisp machine lore
asciilifeform: dug it up after uni
asciilifeform: not even during.
ben_vulpes: i: solved quadratics by hand because programming solvers was taught to me to be cheating
asciilifeform also solved quadratics by hand because programming is a cheat
ben_vulpes: constraint problems, too?
asciilifeform: ruler, pencil
asciilifeform: not so odd.
ben_vulpes: not at all
ben_vulpes: but when you're taught that the right solution to all problems is to do it by hand, with the tools handed one by authority, unlearning that is hard
ben_vulpes: ergo, qt. at first, at least.
asciilifeform: this seems like a bind until you realize that what is taught now is 'solve with unicorn tears, milked out of your arse'
mod6: ben_vulpes: so the main issue was the deps so far. i went to the deb site and it gave me some to add to the sources.list, but didn't seem to help. i can try something different tomorrow if you have suggestions.
ben_vulpes: mod6: which deps?
othernubs`: so we'll split the difference between 0.5.3 and 0.6.3, go with 0.5.8
mod6: it's in the pastes.
asciilifeform still puzzled that mircea_popescu won't pick a favourite here
asciilifeform: what's in his patches anyway.
asciilifeform: death ray plugin support?
othernubs`: maybe we start with defining what's in current that we don't want
asciilifeform: next we become great sculptors. we buy a mountain of marble, and decide what's in there that we don't want.
ben_vulpes: molding bullets...
ben_vulpes: qt gets cut
othernubs`: well, bv says 0.5.3 is minimum that will work
ben_vulpes: wallet retardation gets cut or reimplemented non retardedly
asciilifeform: no cuts without which won't fly.
asciilifeform: picture it's being sent to the past, for your ascension to godhood
othernubs`: publishing job in danger of morphing into coding job
ben_vulpes: oh sorry
ben_vulpes: nubbins i was just opining
ben_vulpes: also also also also
ben_vulpes: getting command line functionality on os x has been a headache every time i tried it
ben_vulpes: another reason this damn platform's doomed
ben_vulpes: ALSO STILL VULNERABLE TO SHELLSHOCK
asciilifeform: i thought it had normal posix
asciilifeform owns one of these, treats it as a mildly retarded linux box with defective wm
asciilifeform blows dust off mac
ben_vulpes tries it again
asciilifeform begins to wonder if this escapade will end with him maintaining 0.wtf in some dark cloister, for food and water
othernubs`: install yr updates
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: what release are you targeting?
asciilifeform: that was the whole enigma
othernubs`: that's the question
ben_vulpes: i'm going for 0.5.3
asciilifeform: somebody mentioned slow sync
othernubs`: let's use 0.9
ben_vulpes: slow sync, myriad crapolade
asciilifeform: i was originally gonna ask for 0.1
ben_vulpes digs spare hdd out of closet for aux blockchain
othernubs`: let's get some big miners to give up their secret sauce
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> <mircea_popescu> anyway, the consensus seems to be 6.3 ? << i've yet to hear a compelling argument for anything past 0.5.3 << ok, so 5.4
othernubs`: isanyone
othernubs`: ...is anyone able to express succinctly yet accurately why current release isn't okay?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: care to drop even a small hint of what you're using? gizmo of own authorship? it isn't like you keep it hotwalleted, anyway
Apocalyptic: othernubs`, you're seriously suggesting using the "current" release ?
othernubs`: he creates raw tx using node.js script and sends to network via blockchain.info broadcast
asciilifeform: using soviet mk-61 calculator.
mircea_popescu: <othernubs`> publishing job in danger of morphing into coding job <<< nubsy has antennae, and they're tuned for danger!
Apocalyptic: what's the issue with 0.5.3 ?
othernubs`: Apocalyptic, i'm attempting to guide the conversation towards stating what is and isn't desired in the codebase
asciilifeform: othernubs`: picture if you were sending the damn thing back in time, to blaise p. for implementation on a gigantic Pascaline, or herr babbage, etc
othernubs`: ostensibly later versions have more bugfixes and improvements but also more cruft and potentially introduced attack vectors
mircea_popescu: othernubs` you'll never get there. but anyway : 0.6.3 most recent acceptable ; 0.5.3 i guess, earliest acceptable.
mircea_popescu: pick among these according to which bias (early, late) you want
asciilifeform always imagined that a pascaline ought really to be something akin to a guillotine
asciilifeform: pick among << smallest!
mircea_popescu: then .5.3
mircea_popescu: also easy.
mircea_popescu: how the fuck it is code never shrinks ?
asciilifeform: mine does.
othernubs`: feature spook
asciilifeform: and herr dr moldbuggr claims that he does
asciilifeform: ;;google kelvin versioning
gribble: Moron Lab: January 2010: <http://moronlab.blogspot.com/2010_01_01_archive.html>; wintersmith-kelvin - npm: <https://www.npmjs.org/package/wintersmith-kelvin>; Software Installation & System Requirements | Kelvin TOP-SET ...: <http://www.kelvintopset.com/software-installation-system-requirements>
assbot: CVE -CVE-2012-3789
othernubs`: .7 prob fixes something else serious
asciilifeform: lol they assign cve for unknown gotcha through unknown mechanism!!?
mircea_popescu: 0.5.6rc3 works
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform remember this suspicion for later.
asciilifeform: 'the doctor saved the patient's ear, but did pluck out his eye i fear'
mod6: ascii: lol i guess so
othernubs`: " and 0.6.x before 0.6.3rc1"
othernubs`: so 0.6.3 affected
othernubs`: wait, no.
Apocalyptic: it's the other way around heh
mod6: also .6.2 fixes some portability issues apparently (FreeBSD): https://bitcoin.org/en/release/v0.6.2
assbot: Bitcoin-Qt version 0.6.2 released
Apocalyptic: that isn't critical imo
mod6: just putting it out there.
asciilifeform: this thing won't need bdb crapolade where it's going.
asciilifeform: but all the semantics of original must be preserved, to begin.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and check out the cve link for details, going straight to an unmaintained dump page.
mircea_popescu: pretty funny behaviour huh.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: typical, actually
mircea_popescu: no idea who/what it's supposed to help
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: incidentally, you probably know who 'mitre' is a shill for.
mircea_popescu: no idea.
asciilifeform: ahahaha
asciilifeform: 'nonprofit' that's 99% dhs, dod, nsa by weight
mircea_popescu: MITRE Partners with University System of Maryland to Operate New Cybersecurity R&D Center for the National Institute of Standards and Technology ?
asciilifeform: right here in town, yes
mircea_popescu: hey, more power to 'em.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski << http://trilema.com/2013/the-future-of-bitcoin-regulation/ tell garzik i said they missed the boat.
assbot: The future of Bitcoin regulation pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: a billion short a year late ? heh.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu lol will do. i remember that article well.
pete_dushenski: please to leave comment perhaps?
mircea_popescu: a quarter bn in 2014 ? seriously ? all into shit ?
mircea_popescu: he's gotta be kidding.
mircea_popescu: my twitter's dead and i don't feel like social media anyway
pete_dushenski: i meant on the blog.. but i see where you're going. i'll drop him a twit.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: what in place of bdb?
mircea_popescu: seems kinda redundant/spammy. next time.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: now is not the time, i actually suggested the project not imagining it would be picked up so quickly
asciilifeform: i kinda want this for 6-9 mo. from now
ben_vulpes: i ain't picking up shit
ben_vulpes: just curious
asciilifeform: othernubs` picked up
othernubs`: ball, meet rotational displacement
artifexd: <mircea_popescu> how the fuck it is code never shrinks ? << Code does shrink sometimes. But not due to concentration on features or bugs. If it happens, it happens because the developer grows and improves. One of my favorite days was deleting 60k lines of code that I had written and replacing it with 100 lines. Simpler. Faster. Easier to understand.
mircea_popescu: !s 50 mn
undata: artifexd: it takes willingness to admit one's own stupidity
asciilifeform: code shrinks when a great fire is lit and all things that are vile and repugnant to the righteous are consumed in the flames.
asciilifeform: as it screams, its sins are expurgated
asciilifeform: !s best machine is no machine
assbot: 2 results for 'best machine is no machine' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=best+machine+is+no+machine
asciilifeform: 'the tastiest fish in all the seas is called kolbasa [sausage]' -- my grandfather
othernubs`: i have a turkey kolbasa in the fridge
ben_vulpes: i am considering bisecting the codebase for building on os x
ben_vulpes: i also think that building on os x is a bad idea
ben_vulpes: this is where docker starts coming in handy: instead of burning many hours on chasing down platform and architecture details to get the thing to work on os x, i'm leaning towards just running 0.5.3 in a VM.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> 0.5.6rc3 works << enhanced sync speed?
mircea_popescu: doubt it.
mircea_popescu: but you don't want it to sync anyway, just feed it a preindexed chain.
asciilifeform: preindexed by what?
ben_vulpes: $ cp ~/.bitcoin ~/.bitcoin-test && ./ancient-bitcoind -datadir ~/.bitcoin-test ?
ben_vulpes: surely it's not that easy
asciilifeform: gotta sync
asciilifeform: picture it being sent to earth of the recent past, that had all but bitcoin.
ben_vulpes: your book, sure.
TheNewDeal: cant you download a torrent?
asciilifeform: torrent produced by what?
asciilifeform: and does it result in a new torrent, modified?
TheNewDeal: I've just seen up to block 315k on tpb, but wasn't sure what the file format was
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you got no pre-hearn blockchain ?
asciilifeform: what's with this pecular preoccupation with strange half-bitcoins
ben_vulpes: no sir
ben_vulpes: check my arrival date in -assets
mircea_popescu: am i the only one ?!
ben_vulpes: quite likely.
asciilifeform: pre-hearn - what date
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform pre 7
asciilifeform: i've one going since 2011
asciilifeform: for whatever it's worth
mircea_popescu: about 30gb it's worth lol
asciilifeform thought blockchain was one for all of us, 'like victory'
mircea_popescu: it is, substantially, but it's indexed differently for the latecomers.
asciilifeform: any semantics not preserved ?
mircea_popescu: well, bdb stuff.
mircea_popescu: and i imagine they probably did all the shitting they can
mircea_popescu: how do you make a torrent anyway ?
ben_vulpes: http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=mircea_popescu&start=5000 << mthreat wouldja be so kind as to expand how far back the search goes?
assbot: Error - search.bicoin-assets.com
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i suppose "first otc rating" would be better way to go about it no ?
ben_vulpes: well, first words in -assets as proxy for initial blockchain dl
asciilifeform: eh, i suspect that many of us had one long before other
othernubs`: well, i'm gonna sleep on it
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes anyway, i'll pass you a signed tarball tomorrow ?
mircea_popescu: or what are your goals here.
ben_vulpes thinks
ben_vulpes: none that can't wait for the morrow
mircea_popescu: the ideal way would be for you to let the thing sync naturally
ben_vulpes: i agree, yeah.
mircea_popescu: it'll take a few weeks, but what's the rush, and this way you get an authenti ccopy.
ben_vulpes: mhm precisely.
ben_vulpes: i'm not concerned about the speed nearly as much as i am the thing working correctly with the network.
mircea_popescu: so then nm, let it buzz.
ben_vulpes: although if you'd be willing to share your tarball and a version number against which i could build that might show some interesting things on a block-by-block diffing
mircea_popescu: there is one caveat, specifically, that you must make a file named DB_CONFIG that contains a set_lg_dir database set_lk_max_locks 500000
mircea_popescu: or else it'll die once it reaches end of 2013
mircea_popescu: im not running stock, and what would it show ?
mircea_popescu: the client doesn't keep "blocks" exactly, it's messier
ben_vulpes: right.
ben_vulpes: so every blockchain could be a snowflake.
mircea_popescu: notrly, cause we know what's in the zero block
mircea_popescu: but every actual blockchain download is a snowflake
ben_vulpes: i'm thinking in terms of bits on disk
mircea_popescu: you can't mix and match blkxxxx from one install with another's.
ben_vulpes: but if you supply the entire datadir, you can boot one install with another's blockchain?
ben_vulpes: provided set_lk_max_locks type configs are in place?
mircea_popescu: the whole set of xxxx's and blkindex.dat
ben_vulpes: this has been educational indeed.
mircea_popescu: course, you would be relying on the verification done by the op
mircea_popescu: but i have bootstrapped new nodes in this way
mircea_popescu: (it's actually the point of the torrent palliative back in the day)
ben_vulpes: should la serenissima publish a torrent?
mircea_popescu: anyway, to be perfectly fair : the bdb arrangement wasn't really tenable on the long haul. it had to be replaced with a better db.
mircea_popescu: the noobs aren't really capable of handling the sort of requirements to dld a full chain.
mircea_popescu: so that bitcoin split among a pro and a noob division is scarcely amazing.
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
pete_dushenski: https://twitter.com/Outsideness/status/524784098510786560 << best twitter comment in response to "adding value to bitcoin" piece. i'm flattered!
assbot: So are you ready to add value to Bitcoin? http://t.co/QWwe4MG8Ar
pete_dushenski: (i sound like a gangster-rapper in writing, apparently)
mircea_popescu: how's the anon onslaught ? you been made to repent yet ?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu i'll repent by updating my "how to run a node" article with ben_vulpes' final work :)
ben_vulpes: gangster-rapper
pete_dushenski: and there hasn't been any anonslaught for the latest piece. but it's only been a few hours.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5023 @ 0.00074072 = 3.7206 BTC [+] {2}
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: a quarter bn in 2014 ? seriously ? all into shit ? << lol. tip of the derpberg.
thestringpuller: You didn't link the article on "the problem of too much money"
thestringpuller: ;;google site:trilema.com the problem of too much money
gribble: The problem of too much money pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea ...: <http://trilema.com/2012/the-problem-of-too-much-money/>; Let's dig a little deeper into this entire deflation “problem” pe Trilema ...: <http://trilema.com/lets-dig-a-little-deeper-into-this-entire-deflation-problem>; Money, fucking and lying pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/2014 (1 more message)
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: this is also quite right. either russia or china can in fact raise interest rates causing a collapse. << their own rates? or just dump some us bonds and trigger us rate increase?
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller i'm well familiar with that one. i linked several other trilemas to make my case.
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski: if we were still on gold standard, China could just dump gold and cause a collapse
thestringpuller: seems pretty easy to do in the modern economy
pete_dushenski: but since we
pete_dushenski: 're not...
pete_dushenski: well, "we"
thestringpuller: bonds gold etc.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: romania was for a while on par with somalia. << but romania got "aid"
thestringpuller: I forgot jgarzik was an advocate of GPG in the web browser.
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller so ya, dump bonds = us raises rates to compete with market awash in dumped bonds.
thestringpuller: Kinda...scary...
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller this is the value of having a blog ;)
thestringpuller: "This engineer sees additional PGP problems: (1) ancient C codebase, and (2) lack of a usable lib."
thestringpuller: Aren't those good things?
thestringpuller: ancient C codebase == software that is more hardened over time
assbot: A conceit, or the importance of blogging pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
thestringpuller: blogging is a muscle. probably why I write for qntra
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller good for la serenissima, bad for usderpcorps.
thestringpuller: "He's Canadian" << lol, the canadians brought us Degrassi and indie rock!
pete_dushenski: news is a different muscle, though still a muscle.
pete_dushenski: yes, yw.
pete_dushenski: meh "canadian"
thestringpuller: hmm. it's ashame all the power rangers are senile
pete_dushenski: mom was born in romania. dad's fam moved from ukraine barely a century ago. thus http://www.contravex.com/2014/08/17/who-are-we-not-nationals/
assbot: Who Are We? Not Nationals | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
thestringpuller: Ah. oh yea I remember.
thestringpuller: Reminds me a lot of the theory of stateless armies.
thestringpuller: (more metal gear talk)
thestringpuller: of a theory*
pete_dushenski: mercs essentially.
thestringpuller: so went to that kryptokit site
pete_dushenski: "will work for treasure"
thestringpuller: vitalik buterin is on the team? kinda figures "javascript in da browser"
assbot: Private security group Typhon assembles private navy to protect Indian Ocean shipping from Somali pirates | This is Money
pete_dushenski: RagnarDanneskjol heh
RagnarDanneskjol: I've recruited mercs for them - they're pretty badass
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller ya, everything vitalik and his co-derp anthony touch are utter nonsense.
thestringpuller: On a side note, I've noticed Roger Ver's bitcoinstore is not...around anymore?
thestringpuller: "Mission Accomplished! We failed but succeeded!"
pete_dushenski: anthony di iorio, very memorably (because i've never seen this before), replied to my gpg-gram... in plaintext. and it included my original email. in plaintext.
pete_dushenski: this was after anthony tried calling me several times, leaving voicemails about how he "didn't know i felt that way about ethereum" and shit.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12471 @ 0.00074123 = 9.2439 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: "I don't know how to use GPG, so I'm gonna make my own."
thestringpuller: We saw how that worked out for usagi ~_~
thestringpuller: (in reference to insurance)
pete_dushenski: and i said we're doing pgp or irc. but he'd "lost his key" so had to make another...with kryptokit!
pete_dushenski: interestingly, kryptokit keys are only 2,047 instead of 2,048 rsa keys. odd, no?
thestringpuller: old pete_dushenski will one day think like Jeezy, "Seen't it all"
pete_dushenski: it feels like bitcoin is accelerating that process!
pete_dushenski: or maybe it's just b-a.
ben_vulpes: it's a forging of some kind. trial by fire.
thestringpuller: dude this is so bad
thestringpuller: GPG in the browser?
pete_dushenski not complaining. doesn't mind a grey or two.
thestringpuller: this is as bad as that keybase.io
thestringpuller: not quite as bad as your private key isn't stored on some fuckers machine in his mom's basement
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes ow! it's hot in here!
RagnarDanneskjol: i use gpg in browser on airgapped device with wifi physically disabled.. b/c I actually understand java and can audit with my own eyes
thestringpuller: pete_dushenski> it feels like bitcoin is accelerating that process!
thestringpuller: ^ MP must say at least once a day, "i'm too old for this shit"
pete_dushenski: RagnarDanneskjol heh neat.
ben_vulpes: bawww really RagnarDanneskjol ?
RagnarDanneskjol: yup - i dum
ben_vulpes: you make the baby satoshi cry
ben_vulpes: that's a pretty funny self-indictment of javaland if you don't mind my saying so.
ben_vulpes: "i can read java and stuff, but can't handle cli programs"
ben_vulpes: nothing personal
ben_vulpes: 'cept for the rapier betwixt yer ribs
RagnarDanneskjol: none taken - I know my security leaves much to be desired.. why I hired a fulltime tutor
pete_dushenski: en garde!
pete_dushenski: fulltime! like 40h/wk??
ben_vulpes: full time you say
ben_vulpes: lol i wish i had that kind of budget
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes patience.
RagnarDanneskjol: well - he's not just a tutor - he's building stuff too - talkin bout Azlph
thestringpuller: ;;later tell mircea_popescu I'm glad you can still be young at heart re: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-10-2014#882514
gribble: The operation succeeded.
thestringpuller: ben_vulpes: lol i wish i had that kind of budget << instead of paying for college pay for full time tutor for 4 years?
assbot: NOT OK GOOGLE: Android images can conceal code The Register
pete_dushenski: "The researchers have found that it's possible to trick the Android app wrapping system so that an image can be wrapped up with malware, and delivered inside an innocuous wrapper app, which gets past both security apps and Google's Bouncer. The basis of the attack is a custom encryption package (which they dubbed AngeCrypt) that makes the malicious APK look like a valid PNG image file (other image formats work as
thestringpuller: lol soon there will be botnets on the phone
thestringpuller: hide yo data plan
pete_dushenski: hide yo wife.
assbot: Android botnet poses as Google app, pilfers email and SMS | ZDNet
pete_dushenski: ya wasn't there a dogecoin mining botnet on android fones too?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10850 @ 0.00074128 = 8.0429 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: !s dogecoin botnet
pete_dushenski: !dogecoin android
assbot: Logged on 28-03-2014 00:41:08; ozbot: Researches find Android apps that covertly mine Dogecoin, one of them with more than a million downl
pete_dushenski: but of course smartphones are supersekure and everything and there's no way goog/aapl are letting those pesky feds get in the way.
pete_dushenski: "The FBI director James Comey's bid to have Congress kibosh default encryption appears to have publicly failed after senators said the proposal would be rejected." << uhuh
pete_dushenski: fluffypony hey man.
fluffypony: at least Reddit has its priorities straight
fluffypony: Uncle Pete
fluffypony: pete_dushenski: I'm going to be in LA from next Tue till Nov 2nd, and then in Utah & Las Vegas from Nov 2nd to Nov 17th - any chance you're mosying on down in that vicinity?
assbot: BitPay To Assist Paydici To Enable Bitcoin Based Recurring Billing | Qntra.net
pete_dushenski: fluffypony hm did see that. afraid not. looks like i'll be in central canada around then...
fluffypony: o canada
fluffypony: famous around the world for its directional 2.4ghz FPV antennae
fluffypony: cazalla: it's obvious how they're going to do it...you just have to hand over your private keys and they'll totally handle the rest :-P
pete_dushenski: like keybase for bitcoin!
fluffypony: exactly!
fluffypony: pete_dushenski: I kid you not about the antenna - this is pretty much the best FPV video receiver antenna on the market, and it's from True RC Canada: http://www.truerc.net/canada/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=30_32_40&products_id=217
assbot: 2.4GHz Gatling - $400.00 : Truerc Canada, Lipos, UHF and antennas for FPV!
fluffypony: it's also $400, so there's that
cazalla: fluffypony, hopefully they get back to me but not likely
pete_dushenski: fluffypony so a btc
fluffypony: pete_dushenski: at present value, yes :-P
pete_dushenski: cheaper than a canada goose down jacket and a bathtub full of maple syrup, i suppose.
pete_dushenski: though i did get a pretty sweet arcteryx winter jacket at the end of last season that i'm looking forward to sporting.
assbot: Obtaining and offline securing ether for the upcoming Ethereum launch Medium
fluffypony: I love Arc'teryx
fluffypony: one of my favourite manufacturers
fluffypony: I have Khard 45s that we use for our go bags
fluffypony: but I keep taking the packs out and using it for hikes and general travel
fluffypony: I should get another one
pete_dushenski: when i first saw this jacket in banff, btc was $350 so it was 2 btc so i balked.
pete_dushenski: went back to the store 5 months later and btc and the jacket's price had converged so it was only 1 btc. i went for it then :D
fluffypony: lol nice
pete_dushenski: i haven't tried their other equipment but it's priced to a point where i certainly have high expectations
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes as opposed to... lol crafting your own based on imaginary spec?
cazalla: good evening xinxi
ben_vulpes: i'm too tired and too deep in unix horseshit to know what to say about ether anymore
cazalla: !up xinxi
xinxi: good evening cazalla
xinxi: oh, it should be afternoon.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes say "no thanks!"
pete_dushenski: it's completely wild to see how much the bitcoin network hashrate fluctuates.
pete_dushenski: in the last 2 week alone it's ranged from 160ph to 370ph as per http://bitcoin.sipa.be
assbot: Bitcoin network graphs
pete_dushenski: bananas, son.
ben_vulpes: this suggests a novel attack vector: depress price strategically to drive miners out, drop large amounts of hashpower to rewrite blockchain.
ben_vulpes thinks
ben_vulpes: not that novel.
ben_vulpes: now i want to see the power draw of the btc network.
pete_dushenski: the question is how much rewriting is possible?
pete_dushenski: and who's going to be duped by any transaction large enough for this strategy to pay off?
pete_dushenski: "here's 50,000 btc"
pete_dushenski: (waits 1 conf)
pete_dushenski: "perfect, we have a deal, here's your aircraft carrier."
pete_dushenski: s/aircraft carrier/personal jet.
pete_dushenski: and my eyes are calling it quits for tonight. bon soir tout le monde!
ben_vulpes: my brain's calling it quit
assbot: Cryptex USB flash drive, 16 Gb Smart Decisions International (SDI)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6350 @ 0.00074128 = 4.7071 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: http://rajensanghvi.com/ << fuck yeah default wpengine template
assbot: rajensanghvi.com | startups, sales and inspiration.
ben_vulpes: fluffypony: now there's an interesting thing to put up someone's pooper
ben_vulpes: looks like i could get it open in about a minute with a decent vise
ben_vulpes: plus a screwdriver. maybe.
ben_vulpes: but you know
ben_vulpes: neat keyfob i guess
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2095 @ 0.00074128 = 1.553 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: using their considerable expertise in implementing a just-in-time (JIT) compiled version of the Ethereum virtual machine and making computationally-complex contracts a reasonably affordable possibility
ben_vulpes: A REASONABLY AFFORDABLE POSSIBLITY
ben_vulpes: okay who did this to me
ben_vulpes: who nerdsniped me with the etherscam again
ben_vulpes: fuck you medium
ben_vulpes: you're shitbanned
mircea_popescu: medium is a turdy pos on the level of coindesk.
ben_vulpes: ether
assbot: Technical Flaws in Early Ether Wallet Implementations
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes no dude, it's a pos libtard venue astroturfing the shit out of the internet.
mircea_popescu: its signal is exactly zero.
ben_vulpes: well it's cost the future one night of my time.
ben_vulpes: i *was* being productive and booting historical versions of bitcoin to run locally.
ben_vulpes: but noooo
ben_vulpes: i had to get scamsniped AGAIN.
ben_vulpes: taleb's really on to something with his noise suppression routine.
ben_vulpes: how though to reconcile noise suppression with -asset logreading...
ben_vulpes: thoughts for bed.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46492 @ 0.0007384 = 34.3297 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19758 @ 0.00073703 = 14.5622 BTC [-] {3}
gabriel_laddel: ;; later tell nubbins I'm not familiar with the btc codebase, but is there any reason not to include diffs from 5.3 to n.m in the appendix?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ;;seen pigeons
gribble: pigeons was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 12 weeks, 2 days, 14 hours, 30 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <pigeons> so far that seems accurate
thickasthieves: <+othernubs`> let's get some big miners to give up their secret sauce /// yknow a survey of large miners' and pools' sentiment on state of bitcoin dev, what versions they use, etc would be a great qntra article
mircea_popescu: hard to verify miners, easy to get a bunch of derps that love to talk. but yes, it would be.
thestringpuller: couldn't you just ask trustworthy miners like slush for the pool stats?
thestringpuller: or do people have their computers lie about the version of stuff they are running?
mircea_popescu: being a miner is notoriously a "nobody's business" type of affair. there's nothing to be gained really.
mircea_popescu: plenty to be lost.
mircea_popescu: miners willing to talk about their mining are either lying or motivated by something larger than their mining. which could be their own honesty, of course, but could just as well invalidate the entire premise identifying them as miners.
assbot: 'LulzSec leader Aush0k' found to be naughty boy not worthy of jail The Register
mircea_popescu: help irritate asciilifeform's ideas about "can do anything"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9950 @ 0.00073633 = 7.3265 BTC [-]
thickasthieves: <+mircea_popescu> being a miner is notoriously a "nobody's business" type of affair. there's nothing to be gained really. /// well, what if we picture the future 10 years out? are representatives of large hash more communicative? or is there 'political' position on bitcoin technicals more known?
mircea_popescu: it's never going to be open.
thickasthieves: there/their
mircea_popescu: why would people in power talk to the public ?
mircea_popescu: the public is welcome to either start mining or stfu.
thickasthieves: so you think itll all just be a total mystery forever
mircea_popescu: only for the public.
thickasthieves: yeah, investigation would be interesting
mircea_popescu: there will be the occasional reports from retired people, obviously. but otherwise, bitcoin mining ~==== fiat espionage.
mircea_popescu: or w/e, "secret services"
thickasthieves: i remember bitfury was very defensive when i asked how much manufactured mining power they represented
mircea_popescu: i suppose the other similar thing is the networking cabal.
mircea_popescu: people may exchange info as to how much switching happens and where and how, on a "need to operate network" basis.
mircea_popescu: but you're not getting a report. nor is congress.
cazalla: mircea_popescu, i remember hearing about this kid, nfi if he actually was part of lulzsec or not
thestringpuller: tactical espionage action
mircea_popescu: cazalla seems not really. but the aussie "secret service" twerps are the better target there. i dun think anyone can point out to ANYTHING they ever achieved, since ww2 onward.
mircea_popescu: not ever. and yet...
cazalla: nah, secret police here are ASIO not AFP
mircea_popescu: there's at least half a dozen of various derp groups, and they're all wasting oxygen & public moneyz.
cazalla: given i live here, i have nothing but praise for all gov departments, advance australia fair
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski: it's completely wild to see how much the bitcoin network hashrate fluctuates. << you understand those aren't directly measured, but more like calculated after the fact ? it's normal variance, you're trying to guess how many times a coin is tossed by how many heads you see. well...
mircea_popescu: cazalla haha that's a point.
assbot: Sweden's Military Calls Sub's Breach of Waters 'Fucked Up'
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: this suggests a novel attack vector: depress price strategically to drive miners out, <<< except miners don't go in and out with the price. the market is amortisation driven, they have the gear and have to use it, so they'll use it.
mircea_popescu: fx risk is handled like any fx risk (hedge and insure).
mircea_popescu: On Sunday, the Swedish media wound itself into a tizzy over a photograph of a man dressed in black wading into the water somewhere in the archipelago. The security services were dispatched to find the man, who turned out to be a pensioner named Ove, out doing some fishing. "I'm no spy, I'm a pensioner," he told Expressen. "You can tell that it's me [in the photo] by my straight jeans, and I usually have a backpack on."
mircea_popescu: how did that theory go... the ideal spy is an old guy with no social contacts ?
bounce: the sweedish sold off their sub hunting helos in 2008. bwahahahaha.
mircea_popescu: bounce sweden is kinda poor these days.
bounce: am I supposed to pity the fools now?
mircea_popescu: they let norway split...
mircea_popescu: birts have more sense with scotland
bounce: norway is doing pretty well, last I heard
mircea_popescu: while reserves last.
bounce: AIUI they potted up their north sea gas proceeds, instead of giving it all away to the unwashed masses. gives them a bit of playroom.
cazalla: thestringpuller: "He's Canadian" << lol, the canadians brought us Degrassi and indie rock! <<< fkn degrassi, to this day i remember claude offing himself in the toilets, i think i was like 10 or 12 and what is this
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3805 @ 0.00073927 = 2.8129 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17558 @ 0.00074135 = 13.0166 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22900 @ 0.00074149 = 16.9801 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.00074005 = 8.8066 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23800 @ 0.0007416 = 17.6501 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25850 @ 0.00073987 = 19.1256 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: ;;isup log.bitcoin-assets.com
gribble: log.bitcoin-assets.com is down
davout: ohai
jurov: hi davout
davout: hello !
jurov: davout any news? you said there's some stupid french law pending
davout: did i?
jurov: heh all is ok then
davout: not like laws are going to make it not ok anyway
kakobrekla: logs down, ddos up, mirror later
jurov: both logs and freenode are dos'd?
kakobrekla: freenode i dunno
jurov: usually when freenode has problems, it dumps me whole banlist for all channels, that happened 20 mins ago.
chetty wishes all these ddosers would find something productive to do with their time
jurov: you know, it is so much fun, feeling of power and whatnot
jurov: i don't know why i did not do more of it myself. only once tried SMB packed of death against neighbor's win machine flooding the ether with all kinds of windoze packets
jurov: got some qualms of remorse, did not continue down that path
kakobrekla: at least assbot is with us.
chetty: well even if ddos is your thing, power trip and all I can think of more interesting things to ddos
kakobrekla: i go for some hours. later
jurov: chetty go on. they're listening
assbot: French 'terror law' declares WAR on the INTERNET itself, say digi-rights folks The Register
jurov: !s davout law
jurov: dunno what was then. maybe cia/kgb planted me false memories and whatnot
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00073695 = 4.1269 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: wtf is "individual terrorist undertaking"?
jurov: thoughtcrime?
davout: ah this
davout: it's because the news is full of teens leaving france to go to syria for djihad and whatnot
bounce wishes the politicians would show some spine here. take their local passport, wave goodbye, declare them europe-wide persona non grata for all eternity. problem solved.
bounce: announce that loud and clear and everybody knows what the score is. "if you want to go there, you're dead to us."
davout: bounce why not simply not care about it? wanna go some ideological war somewhere else, well, have fun seeya later
davout: *wage
bounce: because the fucks come back all shell shocked and violent
davout: meh, let them
bounce: I don't care if maladjusted angry youths want to run away and make trouble in a war zone. I do care if they come back, recruit some more kids (to do the same), cause trouble, shoot some jews, what have you.
davout: i'd reckon most would get natural selection'd anyway
bounce: at the very least it ties up secret service manpower to keep an eye on them
davout: what are you gonna do? cage them?
bounce: no, they're spying on the returnees. already.
davout: no, i mean the would-be goers
bounce: I'd do exactly what I said I wanted the politicians to do: let the would-be goers go, at the price of persona non grata status.
jurov: !mpif
assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021818 B (Total: 477.11 B). Delta: -0.38 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.000195 BTC [-]
assbot: Three Denver girls who skipped school in alleged attempt to join ISIS under investigation - NY Daily News
othernubs`: anyone have logs
othernubs`: n/m back up
othernubs`: you guise and your arc'teryx
othernubs`: cazalla:thestringpuller: "He's Canadian" << lol, the canadians brought us Degrassi and indie rock! <<< fkn degrassi, to this day i remember claude offing himself in the toilets, i think i was like 10 or 12 and what is this <<< my sides / my youth
assbot: Rewrite the OS, Change the World The OS Fund Medium
jurov: i tweeted them stan's 7 laws but i doubt they'll catch on
bounce: medium.com is such a craphole. like wired, but pessimised for the tablet.
bounce: though that osfund.co website manages to fuck up harder. doesn't even render any content here, just the menu bar.
bounce: wants to change the world. picks sucky venue to promote broken website. makes a splash, it does.
jurov: if you want to get amused, actually read it
jurov: "Autonomous networks of drones are delivering critical supplies to rural African villages."
jurov: can't stop chuckling
othernubs`: i thought medium was the sort of site where literally anyone can publish?
bounce: started to scan it but it looked to be entirely fluff
asciilifeform: jurov: lol!
othernubs`: y'know, aside from the inevitble
othernubs`: ...keyboard issues, this xo-1 is actually a quite capable irc machine
asciilifeform: jurov: i almost think that scamatron was built as a deliberate attempt at personal insult for me
othernubs`: websites are a dice-roll but xchat and a couple terminal windows = no sweat
asciilifeform: that, or terry davis
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @ 0.0007365 = 2.2832 BTC [-]
asciilifeform reads the actual ad and notices it's simply generic derp, nothing to do with operating systems in the conventional sense of the word
othernubs` notices that page 1 of the bookof bitcoin will be the entire contents of a file named COPYING
othernubs`: i think i'll gussy it up
jurov sues nubs for GPL violation
jurov: or you can print legalese in tiny font, as supposed to
othernubs`: with images! not chancing text!
asciilifeform: it was bsd afaik
othernubs`: *changing
othernubs`: jurov, i'm going the other way. make it a glorious proclamation
Apocalyptic: 1 page doesn't sound like a big deal
othernubs`: trumpets, cherubim, banners, etc
jurov: isStandard() should feature properly terrifying gargoyles
othernubs`: actually on the fence about illustrating the entire thing, with a slight lean towards 'yes'
asciilifeform: illustrate in the margins.
asciilifeform: the best kind.
othernubs`: book of kells
othernubs`: i don't even need to click that link
mod6: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/10/20_a-summary-of-changes-to-bitcoin-since-0321.html#fnr.20 << thanks for this write up, this would def. need to be patched in.
assbot: A summary of changes to Bitcoin since 0.3.21
mod6: at least, i'd like to have it. heh.
mod6: so yeah, maybe .5.3 is enough with a few patches added in like your notes say. good work!
ben_vulpes: didja get it running eventually?
Apocalyptic: ben_vulpes, that's a helpful commit summary, well done
jurov: so.. where is the evil in 0.9?
ben_vulpes: Apocalyptic: i have to clear up that it's not a *commit* summary but a changelog summary.
Apocalyptic: indeed, semantics
mod6: ben_vulpes: naw, gave up after the last paste I posted. i'd like to go further here, but need more time, and to somehow find the right source to add to sources.list so I can pull in the requirements correctly.
mod6: when testing this, i don't wanna to "hack" a bunch of stuff together. i'd like to do it in a linear manner so seeing what was required is simple. because I'm sure that I can just start pulling down packages on my own and get it to work. just was trying to keep it simple.
Apocalyptic: ben_vulpes, I guess the next would be to see if actually all the code changes reflect precisely what's been announced in the changelog, to ensure there is no stuff left out, intentionally or not
mod6: not sure if im making any sense.
Apocalyptic: *the next step
mod6: I might not be the right person to test this after all. *shrug*
Apocalyptic: which is a considerable amount of work
jurov: i'm able to do it..if anyone pays
ben_vulpes: mod6: plenty of sense. i was a little startled to see that your debian dist didn't come with sudo.
mod6: me too, that threw me off. but maybe i did something silly with the install by creating a root account? i'm not super clued on deb... but it asked me to make a root account first, then a user account. so that was kinda bizzare to me.
ben_vulpes: Apocalyptic: semantics indeed, but not the reddit-style attempted-argument-ender kind. rather the important kind that conveys significance.
mod6: so thought maybe it left off sudo because I created a root account. not sure.
ben_vulpes has no idea
Apocalyptic: ben_vulpes, absolutely, see my next line :)
ben_vulpes: still caffinating can't keep up already
ben_vulpes: Apocalyptic: indeed. piles of work.
bounce: mod6: what're you doing?
ben_vulpes: at this point i'm running the node stock to see what happens
mod6: bounce: just testing ben's script
mod6: created a vm of deb 6.0.10 or w/e and then just tried to run it directly without doing anything else.
mod6: and the apt-get lines in the start of the script failed because the sources.list didn't have the things it's looking for. so I manually added some more that I got from the deb source list thingy, but that didn't seem to help much. it's in the pastes, check the log.
assbot: Europe-Listed Bitcoin ETF in the Works | ETF Trends
mod6: ben_vulpes: anyway, I'll play with it some more later today.
othernubs`: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/10/20_a-summary-of-changes-to-bitcoin-since-0321.html#fnr.20 << thanks for this write up, this would def. need to be patched in. <<< agreed, great writeup, altho evidence seems to point to 0.6.3 being the right choice
assbot: A summary of changes to Bitcoin since 0.3.21
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11984 @ 0.0007365 = 8.8262 BTC [-]
othernubs`: you suggest importing most of the additions in 0.6.0, but 0.6.1-0.6.3 are all just bugfixes
othernubs`: including several osx-specific ones
othernubs`: parliament hill attack: 1 gunman dead after soldier shot at national war memorial
ben_vulpes: othernubs`: i'm not even sold on importprivkey
ben_vulpes: what's the use case there?
othernubs`: several shots fired inside parliament
othernubs`: holy shit brb
assbot: BBC News - Shots fired inside Canada parliament
othernubs`: this is very bad
othernubs`: 3 different locations
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> othernubs`: i'm not even sold on importprivkey << how would you do this otherwise?
ben_vulpes: mod6: create an address and send coins to it?
Apocalyptic: it may be handy to generate a private key outside of the bitcoind mecanism
Apocalyptic: it you want to use it, gotta import it
othernubs`: all canadian forces bases closed to public access nationwide
mod6: and what if you already have a private key that you'd like to import from cold storage? how would you send coins to new said address?
othernubs`: bridges between ottawa and gatineau all shut down
Apocalyptic: wait they close bridges because of that ?
mod6: in other news... i think i fixed my deps problem.
mod6: :)
ben_vulpes: nice! care to share?
mod6: so the debian source list generator thingy didn't put it in there that i need lines that tell me to go to just "squeeze" itself, not just "squeeze-updates" or w/e. will paste.
jurov: othernubs`: did you close the US border, to stop the terrorists?
mod6: "Cloning into bitcoin ..."
othernubs`: it's the most open border in the world :/
mod6: "Checking out v0.5.3"
mod6: looks like there might be an issue with that sed command tho
PinkPosixPXE: if you dpaste/pastebin it, I can assist.
PinkPosixPXE: ^with sed
othernubs`: so how long are we gonna diddle around here before one of us forks 0.5.3 and starts selectively patching?
mats_cd03: you made isis mad othernubs`
mod6: awe shit. fuckin scrollback only set to 512 by default. gotta run this stuff again. one sec... working on it
ben_vulpes: it initially ended with :=0/d so as to rip the relevant line out. that'll still work.
mats_cd03: time for canada to become part of the caliphate
bounce: wasn't forking the point of the whole thing?
bounce: a list of CVEs and other security problems in bitcoin would be useful
bounce: probably would need to take the full tree and look at the diffs, backport the useful stuff and leave the cruft
mike_c: polish the turd?
bounce: no, not quite
bounce: the usg unfunded liabilities problem is mainly pensions, no?
mod6: so keep in mind that a lot of these packages got pulled successfully the first time. this is the second running after i bumped up the scrollback limit on the term:
assbot: dpaste: 1EHBRNF
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes btw, if oyu're going to maintain this, change satoshi's warn key.
mod6: Thanks PinkPosixPXE
mircea_popescu: <othernubs`> so how long are we gonna diddle around here before one of us forks 0.5.3 and starts selectively patching? << not long.
mircea_popescu: <othernubs`> all canadian forces bases closed to public access nationwide << russians finally invading ?
mike_c: isn't somebody making a good alternative implementation? why take 0.5.3 as the b-a client.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: ISIS invading, hell of a thing to wake up to.
mircea_popescu: mike_c because gavin wants a fork
mats_cd03: nice knowing you, canada
mircea_popescu: and in general, when little bitches are asking for a thrashing, it's a good idea to give them a thrasing.
othernubs`: ;;google globe footage captures shoot out in parliament building site:youtube.com
gribble: euronews (in English) - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/user/Euronews>; All comments on A Fresh Perspective On "Islamophobia" - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=9-4AAc5y86s&page=2>; Toronto by Newsreel | culture | Torontoist: <http://www.youtube.com/redirect?q=http%3A%2F%2Ftorontoist.com%2F2014%2F04%2Ftoronto-by- (1 more message)
othernubs`: too recent i guess,
assbot: bridges between ottawa and gatineau all shut down - Google Search
mircea_popescu: all they got is "How to Be a Devils Fan In Ottawa -- 2014-15 Edition" and "Tune in TONIGHT for "MAKERS: Women in War""
assbot: Globe footage captures shooting in Parliament building - YouTube
mircea_popescu: sooo.... why military bases then ?
othernubs`: first shot took down a canadian soldier at the nat'l war memorial
mircea_popescu: what's a "police sweep"
Apocalyptic: <mircea_popescu> sooo.... why military bases then ? // didn't get that either
mircea_popescu: dude these schmucks are not trained or something ?
mircea_popescu: is THAT what you do when shots fired ?
assbot: Hack - Imgur
bounce: dunno. police pretending to be militaree is all the rage now. has been for a while.
mircea_popescu: mthreat ahahah win.
mircea_popescu: bounce even police tho. it's a basic fucking thing, what is this bullshit "i'ma lower my back in a crouch so as to reduce mobility and improve exposure"
mircea_popescu: for crying out loud. throwing like a girl, but for guns.
assbot: Globe footage captures shooting in Parliament building - YouTube
mircea_popescu: i suppose asking the brave&bold to crawl for two hundred yards is way too much huh.
bounce: not everybody has the guts to walk in rod straight with a campaign hat instead of a helmet and going "I love the smell of napalm in the morning", you know.
othernubs`: maybe i should submit a bitbet about the war measures act being enabled again
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20406 @ 0.00073761 = 15.0517 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: bounce and whoever does won't have em for long, you know ?
mircea_popescu: othernubs` sounds legit.
mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/gF4DefU.jpg << the best part is where it says "pantalla tactil" and "together we work for you"
bounce: which is why they like their guns at the ready and their own profile minimised
mircea_popescu: seriously, that's not how it's done. these little bitches would get massacred if anyone seriously went at them.
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2XFHE5K.txt )
bounce: they're police wannabe soldiers, not actual combat vets
mircea_popescu: shocking video, anyway.
bounce: so why is this assad character so completely reviled, beyond resisting the arab spring thing?
assbot: Latest Radio News, Talk Shows, Sports, Hosts, Personalities | AllAccess.com
mircea_popescu: bounce he broke the us' back in the middle east.
mircea_popescu: remember that humiliating "chemical weapons" thing ?
bounce: not that that wouldn't have happened a bit later anyway, with the sharia-huggers
mircea_popescu: that was the first of since then numerous times putin shoved his cock in obama's butt.
BingoBoingo: bounce: He married a white girl is as far as I can tell.
mircea_popescu: he's not much more middleeastern-y-er than obam.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller: On a side note, I've noticed Roger Ver's bitcoinstore is not...around anymore? << well it wasn't really making all that much.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski: anthony di iorio, very memorably (because i've never seen this before), replied to my gpg-gram... in plaintext. and it included my original email. in plaintext. <<< ahahahh.this is like, what, built from the ground up with derpidity in mind ?
bounce: stupid s/w and clueless user. it's what you get when most of the userbase is clueless: the writers of mailclients will also be clueless.
mircea_popescu: o so basically the idea is, client autodecrypted and then appended it to email history as per usual ?
mircea_popescu: i suppose it's a good filter for the killfile.
bounce: dunno what happened. any user-agent headers in the original?
bounce has way too much to read. *sigh*
mircea_popescu: "339,192 US rank. This site reaches over 858 monthly people" << holy shit, it's not fucking possible that 1k people reading you on a monthly basis puts you in the top 300k sites on the internets.
bounce: them 'merkins really can't keep their fingers out of anything and they manage to fsck up everywhere. not a new observation, but it hasn't ceased to be painfully true either.
mircea_popescu: cazalla BingoBoingo : didja see quantcast's "affinity index" ? wired.com 32.7x reddit.com 26.2x zerohedge.com 26.1x theverge.com 20.8x wsj.com 19.3x. made to own, that thing.
mircea_popescu: $depth S.QNTR
empyex: mircea_popescu: Want a bash? http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=38 Or use a valid MPSIC!
bounce: mind the "us" part. that's only some large fraction of 310M people. there's at least as many people online in china, and europe again, and so on.
mircea_popescu: bounce but 1k ? it's like... anything is seen by a thousand people in a month.
mircea_popescu: it's thirty a day for crissakes
bounce: you got the same numbers but for log.bitcoin-assets.com, just for comparison?
bounce: though that'd be the wrong thing to compare with. the other 'bitcoin'-news services would be better to compare with
mod6: ok ben_vulpes: works! http://dpaste.com/3RHJW3S
assbot: dpaste: 3RHJW3S
mircea_popescu: anyway, i was saying earlier i love varnish ? pre varnish, 89,441 pages, 207,229 hits. post varnish ? 58,692pages 58,707 hits. saved 100k hits or so.
mircea_popescu: bounce nah, qntra is the only thing on quantcast.
mircea_popescu: i am serious, there's just no way to run a web server w/o it.
mod6: there was 2 very minor changes to your sed command in there that PinkPosixPXE helped me with. needs to be: sed -i 's/USE_UPNP:=0/USE_UPNP=/1'
mod6: I'll paste the entire thing, just a sec.
assbot: Xerox Alto Source Code | Computer History Museum
mod6: ;;rate PinkPosixPXE 1 Helped me out testing ben_vulpes install script.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user PinkPosixPXE has been recorded.
[]bot: Bet created: "Bitcoin difficulty to fall before Mar 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1058/
PinkPosixPXE: Thanks! :)
BingoBoingo: ;;rate PinkPosixPXE Contributed text to qntra
gribble: Error: 'Contributed' is not a valid integer.
BingoBoingo: ;;rate PinkPosixPXE 1 contributed text to qntra
gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.
jurov: http://www.kommersant.ru/doc/2595277 << putin already saving oil companies from pension funds? happens rather quickly
assbot: -
assbot: dpaste: 0BX9YV5
mircea_popescu: mod6 ben_vulpes would you two be interested in cochairing an ACTUAL bitcoin foundation ? dedicated to ~actually~ maintaining the bitcoin core etc ?
mod6: it'd be an honor, Sir.
mircea_popescu: draft a charter, then it gets gpg signed and that's it ? i'd donate
mircea_popescu: prolly not teh only one.
jurov: what about Chief Scientist and 5 econ muppets positions?
mircea_popescu: jurov none of that, i'm thinking more of, have two co-chairs, then when one wants to go out they vote unanimously to add a third, and after 6 months the retiring one can leave.
mircea_popescu: stable indefinitely like that.
jurov: i see. deaths are to be announced 6 moths prior, too.
thickasthieves: i had same idea this morning actually
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves good for you :)
[]bot: Bet placed: 2 BTC for No on "Bitcoin difficulty to fall before Mar 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1058/ Odds: 1(Y):99(N) by coin, 1(Y):99(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,996.
TheNewDeal: Ooo can I be fundraising chair?
TheNewDeal: I'll pledge a donation :D
mircea_popescu: jurov well, ideally people on death's door aren't in the chair position.
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal i dun thyink so. you see, it's by doing shit.
TheNewDeal: securing finances is just part of the mo?
mircea_popescu: i think that'd be the other one.
jurov: ok srs. mod6 is a C++ programmer? or do you have any?
TheNewDeal: ooo the scamcoin foundation?
thickasthieves: should also require signed, narrated gpg for all distributions of funds
mircea_popescu: they can hire/work with whoever the fuck they want.
thickasthieves: run it totally transparently
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves absolutely.
mod6: i've done a fair amount of C++ in the past. a lot more C though, I must admit.
mircea_popescu: hire people like eulora hires people, on gpg contract.
mats_cd03: this sounds like something i want to be involved in
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17388 @ 0.00073629 = 12.8026 BTC [-]
bounce: mod6: what'd you work on?
jurov: where do you accept patches? i have one pending (for multiple walletsw)
jurov: it's against 0.8, tho
mircea_popescu: well once they actually get the charter signerd i suppose there's going to be a geethoob
jurov: and i was told the code was refactored quite
bounce: they're starting to bitch about browser versions
mircea_popescu: jurov not unfixable, that.
mircea_popescu: how, they ?
bounce: perhaps not a good idea to rely on them. then again, hosting a git repo isn't exactly difficult.
jurov: bluematt iirc
mod6: bounce: noting in C++ that i can point to right this minute in OS space. Mostly C stuff is out there... my freebsd port I created is in C.
jurov: what about boost?
mircea_popescu: ah git. well u dunno man, that's why there's foundation chairs. sort this shit out.
bounce: what'd you port then?
mod6: oh a million years ago i created a port called 'destroy'
mod6: but been a freebsd guy for a long time, helped out on a lot of various things.
mod6: in user & kern
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5254 @ 0.00073885 = 3.8819 BTC [+]
mod6 fbsd since 4.2, obsd since 2.6
bounce: freebsd 4 best freebsd
mod6: ^
thestringpuller: you don't know if you're on death's door if you get assinated
thestringpuller: assassinated*
bounce: twice the ass
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller yeah, okay, if anyone gets ass-assinated we'll ad-hoc it k ?
mircea_popescu: no point in having pre-compiled code in case of exceptions. pre-compiled is for non exceptional stuff.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13750 @ 0.00074037 = 10.1801 BTC [+] {2}
bounce: do we have sources on us vs ru jet fighter quality other than herr orlov?
bounce: how'd that go? o_O
mircea_popescu: tis in the logs, i wonder how it's keyed
mircea_popescu: !s sukhoi
mircea_popescu: a there we go. cool!
othernubs`: mircea_popescu> draft a charter, then it gets gpg signed and that's it ? i'd donate <<< me too
othernubs`: a single distro shames us all
mircea_popescu: especially a shitty one run in circles through featuritis swamp by idiots
othernubs`: SatoshiCore: don't run with the chumps
mircea_popescu: cazalla by the way, intel sez that the reason you've not heard from sgornick nor will you is that the guy meanwhile figured out i'm involved, and doesn't like me either because i said nigger or cunt at some point in the past.
mircea_popescu: othernubs` there's really no cause to fork the name too. let the gavin-mike-dorkteam run into obscurity and that's that.
bounce: ;;seen mistere
gribble: mistere was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 27 weeks, 5 days, 0 hours, 28 minutes, and 25 seconds ago: <MisterE> Deer Hunter was masterpiece
othernubs`: yeah fair enough
mircea_popescu: this is bitcoin. that some other derps are calling their derpage bitcoin too... well who cares.
othernubs`: shit, drop the core and just call it Bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: the us congress calls itself sovereign. anyone can call anything
RagnarDanneskjol: spkg of name *motion to rename 'ACTUAL bitcoin foundation' to homebrew bitcoin club
mircea_popescu: ;;ud spkg
gribble: Google found nothing.
mircea_popescu: hardly. it'd be the bitcoin foundation. because it's what it is.
mircea_popescu: some other scamthing notwithstanding.
jurov regs therealbitcoinfoundation.org
mircea_popescu: bitcoin.foundation too ?
jurov: taken
mircea_popescu: which is my fucking point. this "name and logo" approach to "ideas" is for the birds.
mircea_popescu: what the fuck does it need a website for even.
jurov: it'll just be project on github?
assbot: BitFury Capital Announces Investment in GoCoin | Qntra.net
mircea_popescu: if they even decide to use github
othernubs`: mod6 ben_vulpes put this book thing to rest once and for all; merge useful changes from 0.6.3 into 0.5.3 and call that your baseline
othernubs`: we'll publish the goddamn thing
othernubs`: sanity prevails
jurov: will be hosted on an obscure ipv6 addy :DDD
mircea_popescu: othernubs` "Bitcoin, the definitive edition" ?
mircea_popescu: jurov can be foundation.bitcoin-assets.com
mircea_popescu: or whatevs.
othernubs`: Bitcoin v6
othernubs`: canadian forces warning personnel not to wear their uniforms off-base?!
othernubs`: what madness is this
jurov: btcfoundation.org is regged to some "Matthew Campbell","Bryan Thomas Campbell Foundation", Scottsdale, US
othernubs`: soldier gets shot, solution is for all other soldiers to get naked
othernubs`: jurov, the basdard
Apocalyptic: that's a weird announcement to make...
othernubs`: truly bizarre
mod6: <+othernubs`> mod6 ben_vulpes put this book thing to rest once and for all; merge useful changes from 0.6.3 into 0.5.3 and call that your baseline << agreed.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19850 @ 0.00073584 = 14.6064 BTC [-] {2}
othernubs`: i'd recommend the next few minor releases merge as many non-crufty fixes from core as possible, but that's just one man's opinion
othernubs`: copy the cream, chuck the crap
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8800 @ 0.00073506 = 6.4685 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 385.41, Best ask: 386.4, Bid-ask spread: 0.99000, Last trade: 385.26, 24 hour volume: 8718.21347780, 24 hour low: 380.0, 24 hour high: 389.39, 24 hour vwap: 384.929848633
asciilifeform: maintain << i will, sure. if someone actually wants this.
asciilifeform: mainly because this involves virtually no work.
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1M6XPHG.txt )
othernubs`: asciilifeform, you okay with yr manuscript elucidating the forthcoming Real Bitcoin 0.6?
jurov: heh..wait till they break boost compat
asciilifeform: my manuscript, lol!?
bounce: how much boost is in there anyway?
asciilifeform: i'll breathe on it and bless it, promise.
othernubs`: calling it a book seems to boorish at this point
othernubs`: these rubber keys..
othernubs`: can't wait to see the charter
asciilifeform: i refuse to build the winblows gui ver., though.
asciilifeform: (all others - sure, fuk, why not)
mike_c: charter ideas: 1) maintain a workable core with no shit in it. 2) specify bitcoin 3) write a new implementation because you can't polish a turd.
othernubs`: i don't think gui should be a priority, at all.
mod6: these are good ideas mike_c.
mod6: othernubs`: *nod*
othernubs`: i'll donate 1btc specifically to guarantee no gui for 0.6-0.7
mod6: gotta make it work, before we make it pretty right
bounce: a workable api would be nice. the current js stuff is... er, open for improvement.
othernubs`: bitcoinjs is actually not bad
othernubs`: but you're right
asciilifeform: donate... to guarantee no gui << Deal!! pay to xxxxx....
othernubs`: let others extend. i don't want gpg to incorporate curl libs so it can automatically grab otps from gribs
bounce: it's quite a lot useless if you're trying to build scripts with it, unless they're browser-based in some way
othernubs`: i don't want real bitcoin to come default w/ candy
othernubs`: bounce, node.js runtime
asciilifeform: and, naturally, replicable build setup (i'd suggest 'qemu' image. easy.)
othernubs`: open a bash prompt and type node wallet.js or w/e
bounce: yeah, that's the point. useless on the cli, where you'd throw awk at it instead.
othernubs`: !up omg_hax
asciilifeform: no, that's braindamaged. qemu image - complete minimal bsd with all components, boots up (emulated) on any arch from any culture.
jurov: well.. seems like we need to draft a roadmap
jurov: and if without gui, then it should work fine on cygwin, no?
jurov: qemu has poor i/o perf
asciilifeform: forget maps - if someone actually wants this, no joke, i'll simply crap it out. just say where we'll keep it.
bounce: no usage, no manpage, unobvious naming.
asciilifeform: poor i/o performance << not for using!! for building.
bounce: oh, and deceptive. recall that shop that relied on its "accounting" features, then found out the hard way they're useless for keeping track of accounts?
bounce: they got derided for that, but really, the feature shouldn't have been in there in the first place. that, or something that actually did what it said it'd do.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20900 @ 0.00074076 = 15.4819 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: 'qemu' is simply a machine emulator (x86, mips, sparc, a few others) - we can use another if someone has a good reason to dislike qemu
bounce: how available is it?
asciilifeform: eveveryone please try to grasp why i suggest emulator. this gives a complete self-contained block of bits which reliably builds the apparatus. no external anything, ever.
The20YearIRCloud: mircea_popescu: - I've passed out a few, not to all tenants though due to the baby being born on last rent cycle
asciilifeform: available << gpl2
bounce: the problem with that is that the emulator itself should be widely available too.
BingoBoingo: qemu is available just about anywhere
mircea_popescu: <othernubs`> can't wait to see the charter << me2
jurov: i am fine with qemu... but... it builds and then what?
jurov: you have to feed it a blockchain to avoid endless waiting?
mircea_popescu: othernubs`> i don't think gui should be a priority, at all. << prolly not. if they kill the qt branch it would be no loss anyway
asciilifeform: plus, a snapshot of ordinary x86 bsd install 'for qemu' could be booted on a physical machine. the suggested distribution mechanism is just a way to keep the thing reliably portable without having folks dependency-hunt.
bounce: the bitcoin source is actually reasonably portable and doesn't depend on "helpful" stuff like cmake
mircea_popescu: othernubs`> let others extend. i don't want gpg to incorporate curl libs so it can automatically grab otps from gribs << EXACTLY. do one thing, do it well.
bounce: probably should do multiple image formats for the time being though
asciilifeform: it builds and then what << damned if i know. then, folks who actually use bitcoin for something, can, presumably, use this one if they so wish
mircea_popescu: all this non-unix bs, "gotta make an application to join curl and awk EACH WAY THEY COULD BE JOINED". for fiddy billion "different" aps.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the term you're looking for is 'non-orthogonality' - ancient lament on my site
bounce: one thing that would be useful but is probably not that trivial to implement is a way to split keeping the chain and keeping the keys
mircea_popescu: The20YearIRCloud o happy bday.
ben_vulpes: mod6, othernubs`: i'm behind on logs, but this is amenable.
ben_vulpes: ugh amenable
ben_vulpes: it's fine and great i mean to say
The20YearIRCloud: mircea_popescu: thanks, although you're a few weeks late :D
othernubs`: copacetic
jurov: bounce this is nowallet=1 parameter since 0.9
mircea_popescu: <jurov> and if without gui, then it should work fine on cygwin, no? << probably.
asciilifeform: so does someone actually want this for anything? and othernubs has a tree up for comment?
mircea_popescu: <bounce> oh, and deceptive. recall that shop that relied on its "accounting" features, then found out the hard way they're useless for keeping track of accounts? << yeah and definitely must fix, but that'll be hard to do on the first pass. an excellent thing to do for first revision tho, take out "labels" implement accounts correctly (or merge coin control in, either way)
bounce: so how do the wallets relying on it then ascertain the validity of the chain that instance serves?
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> qemu is available just about anywhere << this is true.
mircea_popescu: <jurov> you have to feed it a blockchain to avoid endless waiting? << not like we can't keep an official copy for bootstrapping, or else people who have the patience can just make their own
bounce: it's still going to be a bitch for shops that're running, say, xen or vmware or whatnot.
mircea_popescu: <bounce> the bitcoin source is actually reasonably portable and doesn't depend on "helpful" stuff like cmake << also true.
jurov: you can run qemu under xen and whatnot fine
bounce: though boost is a right pain and bloody big.
asciilifeform: even contemplating basic auditability requires a 'capsule' that does not need to milk anything (save mains current) from the outside world, during build setup
mircea_popescu: which is another very valid 2nd step, audit the motherucker.
asciilifeform: hence emulator with expected 'gcc', known libs, etc
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes mod6 so draft a charter, then we can bitch at it.
othernubs`: yeah, that's valid
jurov: how it is better as distributing signed binaries?
othernubs`: ^ also valid
asciilifeform: how it is better as distributing signed binaries? << iron correspondence btween claimed source and claimed binaries. only one way to achieve this reliably - the one suggested above.
othernubs`: maybe it's fair to put the burden of the system's basic integrity on the user
ben_vulpes: i've never written a charter, are there good examples out there?
mircea_popescu: and since we're doing this : asciilifeform the one thing you'd be most halpful with would be, look into the god damned rand code/crypto uses thereof.
othernubs`: boot up a vm!
mircea_popescu: there HAVE been cases where bitcoin used shitty entropy.
asciilifeform: vm << no vm. known emulated cpu for known state, always.
jurov: yes, you can make the qemu image available for reproducible builds, but dunno if to advertise as sop for everyone
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes mod6 so draft a charter, then we can bitch at it. << okay :)
mircea_popescu: jurov b-a is not for everyone.
assbot: X3J13 Charter
asciilifeform: qemu only for builders / paranoiacs. ordinary mortals can use the resulting binaries.
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> i've never written a charter, are there good examples out there? << me either, but we can work on it. no sweat.
asciilifeform: i'll happily take a weekend off to read the rng gibblets, once you lot draft a proclamation of Giving A Fuck
othernubs`: if you guys need assistance editing it, i may be of some help
BingoBoingo: I have a feeling the great use of Deedbot will be proclamations of giving a fuck.
asciilifeform: oh and yes, i'll crap out a qemu (or bochs - does anyone prefer bochs?) image.
othernubs`: highest grade i ever got in a math degree was 98% in a technical writing course ;0
jurov: vakgrind can use either?
jurov: *valgrind
mircea_popescu: <mod6> <+ben_vulpes> i've never written a charter, are there good examples out there? << me either, but we can work on it. no sweat. << you've read plenty of mpex contracts, good enough. keep it direct, plain and simp,le.
othernubs`: qemu sounds like a start
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hopefully that's done by fri.
mike_c: <+ben_vulpes> http://www.nhplace.com/kent/CL/x3j13-sd-05.html << this seems like a good, simple, plain example.
asciilifeform: valgrind << will run inside. it attaches to a process. if you want out-of-band (say, kernel diddling) both emulators present 'gdb' interface to the outside, stop cpu, play
mircea_popescu: certainly the cl is a good antecessor.
bounce: redo the whole thing in cl in a night already
mod6: mircea_popescu: ok thanks, good point.
mircea_popescu: except it should be explicitly exclusive rather than inclusive. "We will NOT work with unqualified third parties, which is to say parties that have not satisfied their log reading and wot presence prequalifications."
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: care to upload a favourite and signed openbsd installer? then we roll tonight.
mod6: we'll draft up something, probably have something for all to look at by end of tomorrow or friday? hope that's not too long.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i rarely if at all run openbsd tho ?
mircea_popescu: mod6 if it's by friday it's perfect.
mod6: ok. sounds good. we'll dig in. :)
mircea_popescu: if lenin were alive today lenin would be begging us to let him in this chan.
asciilifeform: who has the bitcoind tree? othernubs?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you mean the source tarballs ?
asciilifeform: deturdified src
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes prolly.
mircea_popescu: punkman yeah speaking of all this comotion, any chance we get the deedbot up by fri ?
mircea_popescu: !up FabianB
asciilifeform: redo the whole thing in cl in a night already << ask me again in peacetime
jurov just snatched therealbitcoin.org/.com . we'll see.
bounce: can throw a git repo at it for starters
mircea_popescu: can';t hurt.
jurov: just http for now?
bounce: why not
mircea_popescu: https is about as useful as tits on a boar.
bounce: though no, best put a ssh thingy for commit on it
jurov: yes, ssh i meant
mircea_popescu: gpg commits!
mircea_popescu: get everyone used to checking sigs.
mircea_popescu: nonw of this ssh bs
jurov: via irc bots! bring the noize!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i rarely if at all run openbsd tho << now we know, he has personal os and btc apparatus! with alien technology.
bounce: no idea how that works. you'd have to have git check against valid gpg sigs from blessed keys or something?
asciilifeform: gpg commits << yay! somebody Gets It
mircea_popescu: jurov might be a good idea via bots, so people can commit from here directly, but even w/o that : a contrib that is signed is signed permanently.
mircea_popescu: a contrib that is submitted via ssh WAS, maybe, perhaps, signed at some point.
bounce: no real point trying to go through bots when git can do it right away
jurov: i have to look into how signed commits are done
mircea_popescu: bounce only because people see it in the logs.
mircea_popescu: jurov it can just be wrapped in gpg --clearsign you know ?
bounce: you can have git trigger a log whatnot and feed that to the other end of a bot
mircea_popescu: certainly.
jurov: mircea_popescu: but iirc it signs the diff, not just commit message
asciilifeform: how to do signed commits << the barbarian way. everyone who read a patch file (yes) and is willing to sign under it, signs. this gets posted. whoever wants, can apply the patches to get a merged turdball.
punkman: mircea_popescu: yeah should be up by friday
mircea_popescu: i have no idea, never looked that closely.
mircea_popescu: !up Plaxant
BingoBoingo: !up Plaxant
mircea_popescu: too slow bingo
mircea_popescu: punkman ideal.
BingoBoingo: Yeah, I'm slowing in my old age
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> how to do signed commits << the barbarian way. everyone who read a patch file (yes) and is willing to sign under it, signs. this gets posted. whoever wants, can apply the patches to get a merged turdball. << i think this is exactly how it should go.
mircea_popescu: we need to create that "have read" accounting scheme i was talking about weeks ago.
mircea_popescu: there's no other way to trust software.
kakobrekla: (while pretending you can run 'safe' sw)
asciilifeform: this is all quite trivial, so far (until someone starts insisting on actual work)
mircea_popescu: it's one thing to trust this rnd function because asciilifeform and 25 others signed on reading it.
mircea_popescu: it's another to trust it because asciilifeform commited it, and therefore perhaps read it, and it's open source so therefore "billions of eye pairs"
asciilifeform: !s eyes flies
kakobrekla: meant doesnt mean shit
kakobrekla: meat*
mircea_popescu: depends how long it has in the sun
kakobrekla: anyway, some years at the future
kakobrekla: all will be same, just you will be pissed at other people
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla bitbet ?
kakobrekla: only goes 1year
mircea_popescu: so then say this again later we see ? :D
kakobrekla: anytime
asciilifeform: incidentally, reserving signature for 'i approve this message' is braindamaged. should sign with comments like 'this line is ok unless goldbach's conjecture is proven false, then yer phucked' etc.
mircea_popescu: ;;ident kakobrekla
gribble: Nick 'kakobrekla', with hostmask 'kakobrekla!~kako@unaffiliated/kakobrekla', is not identified.
mircea_popescu: ha! SCAEM
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform commenting the source code is never a bad idea.
mircea_popescu: commenting it to show when it won't work rather than "what you imagine it does" is even more useful.
kakobrekla: ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:29b32a6e9c213016f07aaf303a9adac1b91adf57541c8ff3d298f2fc
gribble: You are now authenticated for user kakobrekla with key 27AF75321F2489E8
mircea_popescu: people need a lot more negativity in their life to be happy and productive and members of society.
Plaxant: mircea_popescu agree, if you have no negativity in your life you skate and just don't care about doing better.
Plaxant: it's like trying to eliminate stress, never going to happen.
asciilifeform: and why did this have to wait for crackpot to ask for a printed satoshi turd, i wonder.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @ 0.00073623 = 8.209 BTC [-]
bounce: I'd probably want a mailinglist to toss patches around, though
asciilifeform: bounce: toss them around by carrier pigeon or catapult if you like. if they're signed, they're signed.
kakobrekla: yeah well i wonder why is anyone still connected to irc being all idealistic and shit
[]bot: Bet created: "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) Feb 2015 to drop under $70 before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1059/
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: why is anyone still connected to irc << priced pigeons lately?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12250 @ 0.00073501 = 9.0039 BTC [-] {3}
jurov: i vote for patch delivery via ICBMs
kakobrekla: pigeons are more idealistic?!
asciilifeform: submarine.
kakobrekla: so, my point did not get across?
asciilifeform: ;;google RFC 1149
gribble: RFC 1149 - Standard for the transmission of IP datagrams on avian ...: <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1149>; IP over Avian Carriers (1149) - Wikipedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers>; RFC1149 avia - Internet FAQ Archives: <http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1149.html>
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform cause it's how things run in this life.
mircea_popescu: never underestimate the importance of crackpot demands.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla didn't, no. you're too dry for this language :)
thickasthieves: "US will monitor travelers for three weeks when arriving from Ebola-stricken countries" it begins...
bounce: *nobody able to discern any change*
mircea_popescu: !up bradedwards
kakobrekla: ircing on a broken sw stack running on a broken hw stack
kakobrekla: weird some nuke doesnt go off when i do !up
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla yet./
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: lol. if all the hatemail i got, on this specific theme, were to be printed, it would be as tall as my leg.
bradedwards: Hey room, I was told about you all by a friend of mine Mitch Callahan. He showed me Qntra, and I like your approach. Less corporate news, more honest. Less polished, mroe of the harsh truths the community needs to hear. Just wanted to stop by and voice my appreciation and support
asciilifeform: 'you lamer, betcha own x86 boxes and like it, trololol'
kakobrekla: why 'hate' mail ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you got tall legs ?
assbot: First post and an interesting observation about ECDSA
assbot: Bitcoin Address 1FYMZEHnszCHKTBdFZ2DLrUuk3dGwYKQxh
asciilifeform: reasonably.
mircea_popescu: bradedwards that's nice. now get in the wot ?
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) Feb 2015 to drop under $70 before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1059/ Odds: 96(Y):4(N) by coin, 96(Y):4(N) by weight. Total bet: 1.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,982.
bradedwards: the wot?
kakobrekla: its more of a 'truth' mail
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> 'you lamer, betcha own x86 boxes and like it, trololol' << pete got a bunch of that on his software doesn't fail recent thing too
mircea_popescu: ;;google what the wot is, how it works and how to use it
gribble: How WOT ratings work | Help Center | WOT (Web of Trust): <http://www.mywot.com/en/faq/website/rating-websites>; Why WOT works | WOT (Web of Trust): <http://www.mywot.com/en/support/how-wot-works>; What the WoT is for, how it works and how to use it. pe Trilema - Un ...: <http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/>
mircea_popescu: ;;google first steps in bitcoin-assets
mircea_popescu: bradedwards ^
kakobrekla: not the lamer part, but the x86.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5432 @ 0.00073465 = 3.9906 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: we did talk about this.
kakobrekla: no need to rehash.
asciilifeform: !s bitsquatting
kakobrekla: ah that
asciilifeform: ^ re: the evil addr thing
asciilifeform: re: x86 << remember the stories of downed pilots dining on insects? that.
kakobrekla: dunno when the dignity kicks in
mircea_popescu: if you ended up stranded on the island of ugly women, you WOULD fuck ugly women, until they had some less ugly daughters to fuck
mircea_popescu: incest selection!
asciilifeform: there we go.
mircea_popescu: then you'd make the two least ugly make out together, too.
kakobrekla: personal decision really.
mircea_popescu: which is kinda what we're doing here.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla no homo ?
kakobrekla: no homo.
kakobrekla: you can as well not fuck.
kakobrekla: and i mean anything.
mircea_popescu: right. but you are here.
asciilifeform: you can as well not fuck << the perelman solution, yes.
asciilifeform: i personally know fine folks who've perelmanned. e.g., al schwartz. i miss them, but understand.
kakobrekla: i guess he has the dignity.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla the dignity of virgins is a metaphysical subject.
kakobrekla: cool, i like meta.
bounce: tiger dogs. very chinese thing to do.
kakobrekla: only if they are eaten
mircea_popescu: assbot: NOT OK GOOGLE: Android images can conceal code The Register << steganography strikes again. hard as shit to filter.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: http://i.imgur.com/7t3Ow2A.png <<< lol this is just about right.
asciilifeform: hard as shit to filter << rigorously provably impossible.
asciilifeform: in the general case.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8900 @ 0.00073632 = 6.5532 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: well sure, but the general case is uncommon :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7492 @ 0.00073769 = 5.5268 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: obligatory: https://code.google.com/p/corkami <<<< and grep for 'polyglot'
assbot: corkami - Reverse engineering & visual documentations - Google Project Hosting
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: ikr
bounce: how do they manage to take a picture and end up feeding it to the package installer? o_O
mircea_popescu: because user friendly ?
mircea_popescu: pretty sure the paclkage manager handles pics on a routine basis
bounce: then I'd say "user friendly" is the security vulnerability here
mircea_popescu: well yes, idiot user is the vulnerability.
bounce: similarly with some of the vectors to use shell shock. how does a dns lookup request end up on the server being fed to a bash process, exactly?
mircea_popescu: that was biw.
mircea_popescu: ;;ud biw
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=biw | Apr 28, 2012 ... biw. A common used phrase on the internet in the Netherlands. It means 'ben ik weer' - 'i'm back'. 'Biw, is er iets mis?' - 'Biw, is there something ...
asciilifeform: ultimately, looking for vulns in a system that doesn't fit in a head is rather like looking for particular health problems in a fresh corpse.
mircea_popescu: mno. "because it works"
bounce: "idiot user" is too easily said. the real problem is lack of education and devs going "oh we'll make the software SMRT so you don't have to think at all!"
asciilifeform: for idiot users - idiot vulns. for clever users - clever ones. to each - his own.
mircea_popescu: bounce you mayhap have a point. iirc this vuln was writing past the end tag and adding a 2nd spurious end tag.
mircea_popescu: could have been used to exploit say tar just as well.
mircea_popescu: so not really user's fault in any sense. bad parsers.
mircea_popescu: $depth S.QNTR
empyex: mircea_popescu: Want a bash? http://bash.bitcoin-assets.com/?quote=86 Or use a valid MPSIC!
mircea_popescu: $depth S.MPOE
empyex: mircea_popescu: [S.MPOE] Bids: 13705 @ 0.00073465 27750 @ 0.00073452 14087 @ 0.00073449 13975 @ 0.00073433
empyex: mircea_popescu: [S.MPOE] Asks: 3774 @ 0.00073585 2768 @ 0.00073769 40436 @ 0.00074160 5200 @ 0.00074177
mircea_popescu: FabianB any idea why it doesn't like qntr ?
kakobrekla: prolly nothing the the your feed
kakobrekla: i cant even type
kakobrekla: !t m s.qntr
assbot: Some are born to endless night.
mircea_popescu: well no tickers it never traded yt
mod6: mpex seems down for me.
mircea_popescu: $proxies
empyex: mircea_popescu: Proxies: mpex.co mpex.biz mpex.ws mpex.bz mpex.coinbr.com Current MPEx GPG-Key-ID: 02DD2D91
kakobrekla: !t m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00073465 / 0.00073821 / 0.0007416 (1074379 shares, 793.12 BTC), 7D: 0.0007342 / 0.00073847 / 0.00074252 (7160396 shares, 5,287.81 BTC), 30D: 0.00073316 / 0.0007424 / 0.00075684 (26086000 shares, 19,366.28 BTC)
mod6: lemme check.biz
kakobrekla: that werks
empyex: mircea_popescu: MPEx-Status: mpex.co (94 milliseconds), mpex.coinbr.com (446 milliseconds), mpex.ws (4839 milliseconds), mpex.biz (error), mpex.bz (error)
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla yes becasuse s.mpoe traded.
empyex: mircea_popescu: Health-Indicators: Homepage: √ MK Depth JSON: √ VWAP JSON: √
mod6: huh
BingoBoingo: ;;isup mpex.ws
gribble: mpex.ws is up
mod6: hmm. i can't get to any of 'em, maybe i r blocked
kakobrekla: yes i understand, i was just checking if there something wrong with the feed when mod6 mentioned 'down'
jurov: bz/biz up here
mircea_popescu: ;;isup mpex.biz
gribble: mpex.biz is up
mircea_popescu: mod6 possibly a dns isasue ? nobody;'s blocked.
mircea_popescu: pls to check for cache poisonings!
mod6: hmm. ill see.
mircea_popescu: and let me know
kakobrekla: im listening to some french dude and can hardly assemble sentences at same time
kakobrekla: doesnt happen with englishmen
mircea_popescu: maybe he's a rapper ?
bounce: how about trying to assemble french sentences?
kakobrekla: takes too much brainpower to parse and decrypt frenchmen
mircea_popescu: this is how they went from world empire to belgian suburb.
assbot: Warren Buffett's Berkshire loses $2 billion in two days - Oct. 21, 2014
diametric: lolz.
mircea_popescu: o noes ?!
kakobrekla: no link to bitbet?
mircea_popescu: cnn is a libtard venue i read somewhere.
mircea_popescu: but i mean big fucking deal, when bitcoin went from 1200 to 600 i "lost" like a bn too.
asciilifeform: no link to bitbet << It Would Be Wrong! (TM)
mircea_popescu: But it's not all bad news for Berkshire. Investors are sticking with their icon. Berkshire stock climbed slightly on Monday and Tuesday, and is up more than 17% this year -- far outpacing the broader market. <<< consider this lulz.
mircea_popescu: ko missed, tesco lost 50% yoy, ibm just paid a bn to gut itself. so now it's basically a real estate agent (as previously discussed, in these very logs, before the news hit)
mircea_popescu: yet the berkshire stock is... up. because logics.
undata: "sticking with their icon" captures it
mircea_popescu: so i guess we'll be... sticking it to them ?
mircea_popescu: with their iron ?
mike_c: berkshire isn't a holding company.
mike_c: or, an investment fund.
mike_c: couple stock holdings taking a hit isn't that big a deal
mircea_popescu: how isn't it a holding company ?!
mike_c: s/holding company/investment fund/
mircea_popescu: if it loses the usg bezzle lifeline (wf) it's gonna be "all" rather than "some" tho.
mike_c: your FUD won't win you that bitbet ;)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9650 @ 0.00073459 = 7.0888 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: anyway, i wonder if his continued purchases as the stock market goes down indicate that the bonds will get axed or that he's out of the loop
BingoBoingo: ;;isup qntra.net
mike_c: berkshire wells fargo holdings are currently worth $24B
gribble: qntra.net is down
mircea_popescu: look at that, dow is only down 1.5% today
mircea_popescu: nowai again ?!
mike_c: which represents 7% of brk.a market cap
mike_c: plus he would get good tax benefits if it went to 0
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo there's a dns issue in progress.
BingoBoingo: Ah, ic
mircea_popescu: can you reach it via ip ?
mike_c: warren has a fortress. not easily assailable.
mircea_popescu: mike_c except if the dow continues doing 1-2 percents a day for the next three months.
kakobrekla: asciilifeform iirc you mentioned some skin irritation/allergies and the lack of those in ro?
BingoBoingo: IP Address 127.0.0.1 - 149,233 other sites hosted on this server per http://whois.domaintools.com/qntra.net
mike_c: last 3 months: dow -5%, brk +7%
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo dns poisoned!
BingoBoingo: I dunno just quoting site that calls itself "domain tools"
BingoBoingo: the 127.0.0.1 may simply be a historical record
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: yes. i've a year-round allergy from 1993 or so to present time, with small break during trip to Ro
kakobrekla: at least now _we_ know the cause.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo http://pastebin.com/JUFBdyyp << that's how dns response should look
assbot: ;; QUESTION SECTION: ;qntra.net.INA ;; ANSWER SECTION: qntra.net.0IN - Pastebin.com
gribble: Error: "QUESTION" is not a valid command.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo 127.0.0.1 is localhost.
BingoBoingo: Website works
mike_c: *** google-public-dns-a.google.com can't find qntra.net: Server failed
mircea_popescu: there's some sort of dns attax at work.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I know local host, but didn't qntra.net point there at one point?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo not recently tho
bounce: SERVFAIL. oopsie.
mircea_popescu: da fuck.
mircea_popescu: well, until i hear any better this is neither malicious nor qntra/polimedia ns specific.
mircea_popescu: some dns infrastructure just caught fire and fell over it seems
mike_c: yeah, your nameservers
mircea_popescu: mike_c no, because they answer me.
bounce: you may have a local cache that hasn't timed out yet
kakobrekla: asciilifeform its x86.
bounce: what was that across-the-globe dns thingy again?
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: the cause << lol, berkshire?
mike_c: nslookup qntra.net 206.190.151.180
assbot: Global DNS Propagation Checker - What's My DNS?
mike_c: Server failed
kakobrekla: asciilifeform x86, transmittable over irc
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: loltron. nah, we had an 'iskra' (8086 clone originally built for soviet tanks.) so no dice.
kakobrekla: well viruses and bacteria evolve.
bounce: yes, thanks. broken everywhere.
mircea_popescu: yeah it's broken.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18492 @ 0.00073708 = 13.6301 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: i dunno how the fuck i keep getting spam then, hesus.
cazalla: qntra down eh
mircea_popescu: cazalla some dns issue i dunno wtf it is but being workt on
asciilifeform: does nubs have a deturdified bitcoind src?
jurov: mkay...so is there a consensus what should therealbitcoin host? only http git repo for now?
kakobrekla: host the real altcoin?
kakobrekla: i make a joke see
bounce: oh. ha ha. so, [x] laughed. next item.
mike_c: in short order it will be hosting the charter i assume.
kakobrekla: jurov is gonna get ddosed
asciilifeform: i suggest going with whoever had the mailing list idea. emphasize the 'we sign things and so mechanism doesn't matter' aspect.
FabianB: $depth S.QNTR
empyex: FabianB: [S.QNTR] Bids: 1000 @ 0.00014000 10000 @ 0.00013514 20000 @ 0.00012995 100000 @ 0.00009995
empyex: FabianB: [S.QNTR] Asks:
asciilifeform: -- and that way the www site can be 100 percent static.
FabianB: mircea_popescu: ^^ fixed
FabianB: $mpexstatus
empyex: FabianB: Proxies: mpex.ws mpex.coinbr.com mpex.co mpex.bz mpex.biz Current MPEx GPG-Key-ID: 02DD2D91
empyex: FabianB: MPEx-Status: mpex.coinbr.com (706 milliseconds), mpex.co (947 milliseconds), mpex.ws (error), mpex.bz (error), mpex.biz (error)
empyex: FabianB: Health-Indicators: Homepage: √ MK Depth JSON: √ VWAP JSON: ✗
jurov: okay, so i'll go make s3 bucket for it. if someone throws terabytes/day on it and makes it expensive for me then we'll see what next
kakobrekla: depth up vwap down ??
kakobrekla: well it doesnt need to be up at all times
kakobrekla: just that host doesnt kick you
FabianB: jurov: mircea_popescu: why is http://mpex.co/mpex-vwap.php and http://mpex.coinbr.com/mpex-vwap.php different?
kakobrekla: cause one is coinbr
kakobrekla: and the other is mpex
jurov: FabianB: mircea asked for it to be cached
FabianB: ic, so coinbr is older
jurov: so it is 5 mins or so.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9400 @ 0.00073942 = 6.9505 BTC [+]
FabianB: jurov: is vwap and depth mixed up?
jurov: obv they aren't cached/invalidated at the same time
FabianB: jurov: no, coinbr vwap.php shows mktdepth.php content
jurov: ahhh
FabianB: that's why mpexstatus shows vwap as being broken i think
FabianB: it only checks the health indicator line for the first proxy (fastest ping proxy), which above was coinbr proxy
mircea_popescu: <FabianB> mircea_popescu: ^^ fixed < ty!
mircea_popescu: oh interesting huh
asciilifeform: i dare suggest a simple antisp4mz0r filter for mailing list - only messages signed from +v #b-a folks accepted.
mircea_popescu: what, just like deeds registrar ?
kakobrekla: bitbet - worst support ever!
mircea_popescu: so basically... deeds-based mail list ?
kakobrekla: just like asciilifeform slaves in the us i must talk to strangers over email :(
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla at least you don;t have to moderate for child porn.
kakobrekla: i was assbot the other day
kakobrekla: recall that?
asciilifeform: i should clarify, not literal +v, incl. 'up' folks. the magic 29 pubkeys.
asciilifeform: will work, fleanode or no fleanode
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00073942 = 3.845 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: better than ignoring the sender would be making the sender unable to send in the first place.
mircea_popescu: gotta start somewhere
asciilifeform: i confess that i rather like the mailing list idea. readily convertible to 'apocalyptic' shortwave radio...
bounce: shortwave radio mailing lists? o_O?
asciilifeform: if you can get a signed gibblet in, by land, by sea, by pigeon - and signature is one of the chosen - message is in next broadcast. 'cheap and angry' - like 'mpex' et al.
bounce would like bitcoin address-signed mail. if you're going ahead with the signage requirement, lemme see if I can whip up a verifier for that.
cazalla: mircea_popescu: cazalla by the way, intel sez that the reason you've not heard from sgornick nor will you is that the guy meanwhile figured out i'm involved, and doesn't like me either because i said nigger or cunt at some point in the past. <<< what a fucking cunt
Apocalyptic: "bitcoin address-signed mail" // meh, what's wrong with gpg keys ?
asciilifeform: bad enough that btc uses ecdsa. i rather wish it were something that could be discouraged, rather than we were to depend yet more on it.
BingoBoingo: ^ this
bounce: the email signage is clunky. both kinds. all kinds, really.
mircea_popescu: ;;isup qntra.net
gribble: qntra.net is up
bounce: the ecdsa stuff is short enough to fit conveniently in a header or two
mircea_popescu: okay. i have nfi what happened there, but rolled new dns servers and all seems well ?
mircea_popescu: bounce what'd be the benefit ?
asciilifeform: bounce: re: short & convenient ecdsa keys << 'the easy cheese lives - in the mousetrap.'
nubbins`: someone more familiar with github than I should probably set up the repository
nubbins`: just clone 0.5.3 into it for now and we can identify what gets chucked from there
mircea_popescu: wow the oiriginal nubbins!
Apocalyptic: nubbins`, I think jurov is on it
mircea_popescu: hey listen we had an impostor here for days
bounce: no ugly as fuck crap added to the body, basically. proper integration with email by using its facilities instead of reinventing them, clunkily.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu am i even better in person?!
mircea_popescu: it was like... let's string him along guyse
nubbins`: mp i hope you tricked him into thinking he was gonna print a bunch of stuff
mircea_popescu: bounce i was talking about "sign with bitcoin address"
mircea_popescu: nubbins` no, asciilifeform did that.
mircea_popescu: it was a riot, you shoulda seen
bounce: and so was I
nubbins`: imagine!
mircea_popescu: bounce i do not use an "email client" that's gpg able
BingoBoingo: My worry with ECDSA for signing critical things is using the same keypair too many times increases the chances a bad k can enter the mix
mircea_popescu: nor do i think it's a half -good idea.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo quite.
nubbins`: actually i suppose a better idea is to deturdify 0.5.3 first
mircea_popescu: perhaps as important : bitcoin addresses are for getting paid. NOT for proving your identity
mircea_popescu: mixing these two is antidesign.
nubbins`: no sense including turds in first commit
mircea_popescu: sign with your signature, pay with your wallet.
asciilifeform: no sense including turds in first commit << surprisingly, i must disagree. we gotta show the pedigree from classical bitcoind.
nubbins`: a-ha, that's also fair
mircea_popescu: lol yeap.
nubbins`: so clone 0.5.3 to our tree as 0.5.3
nubbins`: remove qt etc, add non-shit additions from 0.6-0.6.3
nubbins`: release it as real 0.6
asciilifeform: first someone please unearth a genuine vintage tarball of 0.5.3. github of poundation sc4mz0rz could be doctored.
nubbins`: dance into the sunset holding hands
mike_c: why not release it as real 0.1
mircea_popescu: cuz it's not teh 0.1 not rly.
mike_c: it's not 0.6 rly either
mircea_popescu: i could see an argument for releasing it as the real 0.9 tho
nubbins`: sure it is
mircea_popescu: or w/e the derps are doing currently.
nubbins`: haha head 'em off
nubbins`: bitcoin x
mike_c: hey thickasthieves, wake up and back me up. this things needs different branding.
nubbins`: i'd be more in favor of mirroring derp release numbers for now
assbot: Logged on 22-10-2014 17:56:50; othernubs`: copy the cream, chuck the crap
nubbins`: next release, 0.7, takes actual improvements from 0.7.* series and weeds out crud
mike_c: uh, like all of it?
mike_c: why the fuck would this project follow in derpy footsteps?
mircea_popescu: yeah srsly.
asciilifeform: first - we pillage. Then - we burn.
bounce: guy got the order right
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but pillage the whole thing in one go.
nubbins`: this is assuming there are useful bugfixes in 0.7-0.9
mike_c: right, which is v0.1 - pillaging.
nubbins`: i'm sure there must be
nubbins`: however few
mircea_popescu: mike_c why "different branding" ?
nubbins`: this is what, a couple weeks of sifting to identify em
nubbins`: we'd be at 0.9 by xmas
mike_c: because it will be different (and better)
nubbins`: no, core is different :D
PeterL: but it will still be "bitcoin"
mike_c: and that is worth signifying, instead of looking like a clone.
mircea_popescu: mike_c usgavin's crap is the different
mircea_popescu: and worse.
mircea_popescu: that's the message here. we got the brand.
mike_c: exactly, so why follow their lead?
asciilifeform: reactionary deeds, not mere words, yes.
mircea_popescu: the wanna-bes on the outskirts of bitcoin are making baseless claims to a continuity that doesn't exist.
mike_c: i would rather use b-a bitcoin v0.1 over derpy bitcoin v0.9
mircea_popescu: mike_c the crocodile that opens maw to let stuff in, then lets water back out is not following toads lead.
mircea_popescu: it's merely eating toads.
mike_c: yeah, and to follow this odd analogy, it doesn't call itself "toad". it calls itself "crocodile"
nubbins`: anyway, getting ahead of ourselves
mircea_popescu: which is what we're calling ourselves. bitcoin.
nubbins`: first step, 0.5.3->real 0.6
cazalla: bounce wishes the politicians would show some spine here. take their local passport, wave goodbye, declare them europe-wide persona non grata for all eternity. problem solved. <<< they sorta did that here but cancelled the passports so that they couldn't leave australia and not after
asciilifeform: ditch the fractional versions. 1, 2, 3, infinity. natural numbers.
mircea_popescu: mike_c think of it strategically. won't it be funny when usgavin is stuck arguing that a) he's forking bitcoin and b) it's the real bitcoin ?
mike_c: fractional versions serve purpose normally (not in bitcoincore fantasyland)
PeterL: why not just call it 1.0?
mircea_popescu: put usg people in usg type positions.
mircea_popescu: PeterL mostly cause not mature.
PeterL: what does it need to be mature?
mircea_popescu: to be 1.0 ? tradition.
PeterL: a specification?
mircea_popescu: ;;google tradition tradition!
gribble: Tradition!Tradition! - Jewish Gifts and Fine Judaica: <http://www.traditiontradition.com/>; Fiddler on the roof - Tradition ( with subtitles ) - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw>; Tradition (song) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tradition_(song)>
assbot: Ubuntu Warty visual theme/Image archive - Geek Feminism Wiki
mike_c: 1.0 can be the first version that has no more bitcoincore legacy code in it
mircea_popescu: that won't likely ever happen.
mircea_popescu: what may perhaps happen is a day when gavin, mike and co finally go full-ethereum
mircea_popescu: and make a "bitcoin" that has no more bitcoin in it at all.
asciilifeform: i confess - i actually like moldy's 'kelvin versioning.'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform on the c machine tho ?
mircea_popescu: and also, it's kuhns
asciilifeform: start at temperature, e.g., 500K. then 'cooling'. theoretically 0K means it will -never- be reasonable to change it. ever.
undata: BingoBoingo: I remember that; bizarre
nubbins`: do the java thing and call it Bitcoin 6
nubbins`: fuck everything
PeterL: windows thing and call it Bitcoin 2014
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform seriously, donald kuhn did that.
mike_c: my instinct is that any versioning system other than following the derps would be better
asciilifeform: on anything, hell, univac. kelvin versioning doesn't mean you will never throw the whole thing away. just experesses the concept that code must cool down to pefect crystalline form, rather than accumulating turdacles.
mod6: <+nubbins`> do the java thing and call it Bitcoin 6 << haha
asciilifeform: knuth's 'pi versioning' of TeX, yes
mircea_popescu: why do i keep calling the poor man kuhn
mircea_popescu: dylsexiaday.
los_pantalones: mircea_popescu you may get gavin & co to ethereum mode sooner rather than later
mircea_popescu: mike_c not a bad instinct generally, but gotta start somewhere.
undata: asciilifeform: would the "crystalline" form only describe features? this seems to fly in the face of the "provably correct" conversation of the other day
mircea_popescu: los_pantalones apparently.
los_pantalones: just heard these guys closed 50mm
assbot: Blockstream
undata: in that there will always be ways to break things, and always a need for fixes
mircea_popescu: los_pantalones ahahaha with whom
undata: 0.0001K -> 0.00009K ?
los_pantalones: standard vc collective
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Kuhn is the one who tried the versioning things with science http://www.amazon.com/The-Structure-Scientific-Revolutions-Edition/dp/0226458083
assbot: The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, 3rd Edition: Thomas S. Kuhn: 9780226458083: Amazon.com: Books
mike_c: <+undata> in that there will always be ways to break things, and always a need for fixes << yeah.. one way to break things is to add "fixes"
mircea_popescu: should be fun to watch.
los_pantalones: it always is
asciilifeform: we aren't doing 'provably correct' or even 'fits in head' quite yet. just a reasonably sane janitorial job on classical bitcoind. downed pilot has to eat, whether the fauna have four legs, six, or a thousand.
undata: mike_c: yes one way, but certainly not the only
mircea_popescu: los_pantalones so basically.. maxwell, wuille towards the end, and WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE lol
los_pantalones: on the phone was told 'a bunch of people from bitcoin core dev'
los_pantalones: then i looked at the site
BingoBoingo: Wait, isn't sidechains just namecoin or any other merge mined thing, but without history?
los_pantalones: and had the same reaction
mircea_popescu: "Francesca Hall Co-Founder Since joining Blockstream as team coordinator, she has become an expert in complex systems, chaos theory, system automation, and large scale organizational challenges"
mircea_popescu: no, seriously ?
los_pantalones: so possibly some others in the works
los_pantalones: but that's pure speculation from a game of telephone
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo vaguely seems like that.
mircea_popescu: los_pantalones so who is francesca hall lol.
los_pantalones: you tell me
los_pantalones: ol wise one
BingoBoingo: Except each side chain gets their own deedbot?
mircea_popescu: i want some smart chicks that become experts in complex systems and chaos theory over a semester
mircea_popescu: i never met one irl.
thickasthieves: <+mike_c> hey thickasthieves, wake up and back me up. this things needs different branding. /// well i think the whole .0.0 whatever shit is retarded
asciilifeform: .0.0... retarded << very much
mircea_popescu: los_pantalones well, prolly not the same, but intel has "The latest Tweets from Francesca Hall (@FrancescaHRH). In the semi final heat for Miss England 2015 " to share.
los_pantalones: haha, if only
thickasthieves: <+asciilifeform> ditch the fractional versions. 1, 2, 3, infinity. natural numbers. /// yeah, see
thickasthieves: you give it a name, and the first version is 1
kakobrekla: .0.0... retarded << very much << yes it does look like retarded emoticon
asciilifeform: i like the 'kelvin' variant, but this is a matter of taste.
mircea_popescu: los_pantalones o no fucking way, they got like a dozen and they're all co founders and supposedly equally so ?!
assbot: FTDI Reportedly Bricking Devices Using Competitors' Chips. - Slashdot
asciilifeform: that can be mr mold's contribution to civilization. we can credit him.
mircea_popescu is seriously considering expanding the derps. this is good shit.
mircea_popescu: "Jorge Timón Co-Founder Jorge Timón is a software engineer with 4 years of experience at Indra, working on big international projects including software for several insurance companies."
kakobrekla: blockstream has nice logo
mircea_popescu: i see the "3 year's experience" thing got a ++ ?
asciilifeform: why the everliving fuck is usbid on any ftdi - genuine or chinese - reflashable inband ?!?!
thickasthieves: <+kakobrekla> blockstream has nice logo -- not bad, i'd have gone for less segments in the icon
mircea_popescu: los_pantalones uhm... from what i hear the 50 mn reports may be grossly exaggerated.
los_pantalones: possible
los_pantalones: was a single call
kakobrekla: thickasthieves more segments, more mm.
asciilifeform: i always wondered
mircea_popescu: in the sense that if i donate to the bitcoin foundation a btc and consider maybe donating another 100 in time
los_pantalones: guy should know
thickasthieves: i cant argue with more is more
mircea_popescu: it has not in fact received 101 btc financing.
kakobrekla learns from best chumpatrons
los_pantalones: understood, ty for the clarification
asciilifeform: waitasec, this is funded project? why?
bounce: actually bricking? oh dear. that is maybe a little too enthousiastic. but the poor chinese copies claiming to be ftdi then only implementing half the stuff and causing trouble that reflects badly on ftdi would tire me out, honestly.
bounce wouldn't be surprised to learn the chips bricked themselves because they're not up to spec
mircea_popescu: sounds like a distinct possiblity bounce
bounce: setting product id to 0. didn't know they even had programmable vid/pid
asciilifeform: yes reprogrammable, it's intended as a prototype aid. but why inband?!?!
bounce: and, hm, if the device proclaims to be vendor x / product y, then does the vendor have a right to say "but I didn't make this, this is fake. not my product" and set product id to 0?
asciilifeform: i always hated inband reflashable fw in consumer products. invitation for mice.
bounce: first sale doctrine probably says "no" though. but oh so tempting.
mircea_popescu: how does first sale doctrine say no ?
bounce: by the time the driver hits the owner is the client, not the fake vendor nor the real vendor
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22600 @ 0.0007413 = 16.7534 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: you may recall a deffective automobile even if the owner is the owner not you
bounce: the owner will still have to voluntarily submit the product back to the vendor.
mircea_popescu: which he allegedly did by allowing it to be 0'd ?
cazalla: bounce: ;;seen mistere <<< after #b-a went +m, he said he was leaving
bounce: er. how did the owner say "yes please?", given that they evidently didn't see it coming?
bounce: oh, alright.
mircea_popescu: well, evidently.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, it'd be funny if the first sale doctrine protected the owners of counterfit gucci bags.
nubbins`: counterfiat
mircea_popescu: be like, "yeah, it's a fake, but you can't do jack because this guy paid that guy ten bux for it."
bounce: hm. I don't think they've been gone after, have they?
BingoBoingo: Maybe I prefer bootleg USB controllers?
mircea_popescu: bounce no idea, prolly not. kinda fringe
bounce: not sure if it'd make sense to even put the defense on first sale, but worth a shot.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9200 @ 0.0007416 = 6.8227 BTC [+]
bounce: anyhow, I get where they're coming from but it's still a dodgy move.
mircea_popescu: well sure it is, no argument there.
mircea_popescu: my point was entirely that the first sale thing prolly won't take you far.
bounce: prolly not. tortuous to say the least. but lots of legal wrangling is exactly that.
mircea_popescu: inexactly that :)
bounce: you're saying legal eagles are a bunch of sloppy cunts?
mircea_popescu: you know, the same way "phenotypically divergent" does not necessarily mean an extremely skinny chick with extremely large tits and improbably long legs. it could also mean disproportionately large head
BingoBoingo: Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act would prolly be the way to protect your bootleg usb chips in US court
mircea_popescu: no, im just saying yours is the bad kind of tortured.
mircea_popescu: bingo's just as tortured, but it looks maybe more fit to thrive.
assbot: Why You Can't Manufacture Like Apple - Slashdot
bounce: ``The licence only allows use of the Software with, and the Software will only work with Genuine FTDI Components (as defined in the Licence Terms). Use of the Software as a driver for a component that is not a Genuine FTDI Component MAY IRRETRIEVABLY DAMAGE THAT COMPONENT.'' -- well, they did do and went covered their arse.
mike_c: holy shit i just wasted 5 minutes of my life.
mircea_popescu: mike_c how many times did i say not to pdf :D
mike_c: you don't want to read it anyway
mircea_popescu: if someone makes a powerpoint they may be worth a fuck, but if someone makes a pdf its not worth your time.
bounce: so save us four minutes and tell us why?
mike_c: sidechains! pegged to bitcoin! don't worry about the fact that it won't fucking work and the sidechains will collapse. we'll figure something out.
bounce: this that old thing again or did someone do a similar thing anew?
mike_c: also requires a "soft-fork" of bitcoin, but don't worry, that's not as bad as a hard fork.
bounce: not that I paid attention the first time around, mind.
mircea_popescu: seems like the old tihng again.
mircea_popescu: re-ethereum
mircea_popescu: which was re-ripple
mircea_popescu: which was re-etc.
mike_c: yeah but they didn't have symmetric two way pegs.
mircea_popescu: oh sorry.
mircea_popescu: DOUBLE DONGS SAVE THE DAY
assbot: Our plan of action : TakeBack4chan
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00073942 = 9.1688 BTC [-]
bounce: I'm oblivious as to the drama that spawned this
asciilifeform: re: FTDI scandal - the real sc4mz0rz are the usb standard phoundation folks, who charge for IDs. the only reason any of this is happening.
mircea_popescu: bounce it's like the previous one with some sed
bounce: uh, no. they're faking the ftdi vid/pid so the driver'll work
asciilifeform: they fake it because even if you implement a standard device class (e.g. HID) you have to fake someone's. or you fork over ~4k usd to parasite scum for a 'legit' id.
bounce: well, yes, they probably should sell, say, fractional VIDs (VID+16 PIDs or so) for a nicely small fraction of the cost
mircea_popescu: like domain names ?
bounce: (there was a guy that did exactly that, expressly for hobbyist purposes, but he got shot down, I think)
asciilifeform: like domain names would be were there zero downward pressure on prices, and a single registrar.
bounce: domain names have a slightly bigger available space
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: So like ISBN?
bounce: for comparison, OUIs cost $1250 last time I checked
asciilifeform: 16 bits of usb vendor id. that's it.
bounce: ISBN blocks come in variable sizes. forgot the size of the price structure.
mircea_popescu: it's about like a domain name, isbn
BingoBoingo: https://www.myidentifiers.com/get-your-isbn-now << bounce now for more than 100 blocks you need to inquire
assbot: Bowker | Identifier Services
bounce: they're apparently about to run out of numbers. so they tack on three digits for a net gain of one bit
bounce wasn't too impressed by that move
undata: death to centralized number peddlers
undata: what prevented device IDs being uuids?
bounce: well, there's these cheap chinese boxes that come without MAC assigned; somewhere on bootup it'll just make one up
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-10-2014#861596 << so what does he do? tries to cause the grief he intended to stop
assbot: Logged on 06-10-2014 21:06:55; gribble: Sent 7 minutes ago: <sgornick> Re: Qntra.net, I registered @Qntra on Twitter before some griefer /squatter did. Then put a Twitterfeed to push tweets from the RSS feed. When you want the twitter acct, let me know what e-mail to assign it to. It can't be an e-mail already used for any other twitter account.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/8XqmkJM.jpg << ever read the infamous 'spoons' essay?
bounce: that's like, really useful if you're trying to manage your shop over dhcp
mircea_popescu: have not, no.
assbot: But You Dont Look Sick? support for those with invisible illness or chronic illness The Spoon Theory written by Christine Miserandino - But You Dont Look Sick? support for those with invisible illness or chronic illness
mircea_popescu: invisible illness ?
mircea_popescu: wait, this is a disease you don;t have but gets you welfare ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: e.g., 'aids'
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: You know invisible illness like schizophrenia of HIV++
assbot: Florida man Howard Hendrix resists arrest by sitting on the ground | Daily Mail Online
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: AIDs is visible, not very, but visible
undata: mircea_popescu: was born in florida; this checks out
bounce: you can take the man out of florida, but can you take florida out of the man?
undata: bounce: I chant "outlier" at night to help myself sleep.
assbot: Blackwater Guards Found Guilty in Iraq Shootings - ABC News
bounce: until your neighbours call the cops to report a disturbance of the peace?
nubbins`: i uh...
bounce: too clean to understand this
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is wallowing with the eagles? mega-lol though
nubbins`: fuckin smell shamer
mircea_popescu: well i somehow ended up looking for internets drama
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15651 @ 0.00073811 = 11.5522 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: for my sins, this query is readily but abundantly satisfied.
nubbins`: asciilifeform you familiar with https://gitian.org/ ?
assbot: Gitian: a secure software distribution method
TheNewDeal: hey nubbins` , good sir, can I get a rating for purchasing them posters :D?
asciilifeform: http://zeptobars.ru/en/read/FTDI-FT232RL-real-vs-fake-supereal << entirely different silicon. from this we learn!! that a) they copied it because usb id is charged for by rent-seeking scumz0rs b) winblows includes ftdi driver already. relationship with microshit. so chinese were forced into this.
nubbins`: TheNewDeal, i'm very parsimonious with my ratings
nubbins`: i'm sure you'll understand :/
asciilifeform: (how did i make this inference? simply from the fact of the actual die not being a copy. which would have been the obvious explanation.
TheNewDeal: understood, but I'm in dire need
nubbins`: understood!
BingoBoingo: ;;rated TheNewDeal
gribble: You have not yet rated user TheNewDeal
mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust assbot TheNewDeal
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask TheNewDeal!ce2d690b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.206.45.105.11. Trust relationship from user assbot to user TheNewDeal: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=TheNewDeal | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=TheNewDeal | Rated since: Sun Apr 13 12:56:09 2014
nubbins`: ;;ratingsystem getratings TheNewDeal
gribble: Error: The "RatingSystem" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "getratings" in it. Try "list RatingSystem" to see the commands in the "RatingSystem" plugin.
mircea_popescu: you got one, what do you need em for ?
asciilifeform: gitian << do not want.
nubbins`: ;;ratingsystem getrating TheNewDeal
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask TheNewDeal!ce2d690b@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.206.45.105.11 . User TheNewDeal, rated since Sun Apr 13 12:56:09 2014. Cumulative rating 4, from 3 total ratings. Received ratings: 3 positive, 0 negative. Sent ratings: 10 positive, 0 negative. Details: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=TheNewDeal
BingoBoingo: TheNewDeal: Care to do a tour in the newsmines?
TheNewDeal: is that an invitation to write an article?
nubbins`: TheNewDeal you know those are better ratings than i had for a long time :P
BingoBoingo: TheNewDeal: Find news submit draft
TheNewDeal: but I did purchase 2 posters from you. Want everyone to know I'm a bitcoin art connoisseur
BingoBoingo: !up reggiesells
asciilifeform: gitian << first of all, want bsd - floppy disk image is what i'm playing with now - plus gcc, other deps - pre-baked. minimal size. second, what is this nonsense, it needs an internet connection?!?!
mircea_popescu: !up reggiesells
nubbins`: TheNewDeal, a man's gotta have criteria and you don't meet it, sorry
BingoBoingo: Oh mircea_popescu was slow this time, probably becaus more age
nubbins`: nothing personal
nubbins`: i give out ratings like candy, they'll be worthless
mircea_popescu: moar cognac.
nubbins`: you want everyone to know you're a connoisseur, post some pics of your poster to the thread ;D
BingoBoingo is really liking this switch to just ETOH+mixer
TheNewDeal: I don't see how it'd be worthless. In fact, if someone wanted to do business with me, they could literally ask you how it went
reggiesells: noob here, what the heck did you guys just do with those irc commands?
TheNewDeal: I'm distancing myself from the forum
TheNewDeal: too much wasted time
BingoBoingo: reggiesells: We gave you voice!
nubbins`: reggiesells, gribble manages our web of trust for us
reggiesells: thanks! @BingoBoingo, i almost lost my voice earlier
kakobrekla: !up to heaven
mircea_popescu: http://i.imgur.com/6464LM2.png <<< check out this land where thermodynamics never happened.
reggiesells: oohh okay, i know about WoT.
nubbins`: TheNewDeal and i'd say "yeah, guy sent me btc, i sent him a poster" and they would not have any new information upon which to judge your character
reggiesells: thanks @nubbins'
BingoBoingo: reggiesells: Well it happens on a 30 minute timers. assbot rules over us all unequally
bounce: this is twittar now?
reggiesells: haha yes
reggiesells: now i feel less special lol
TheNewDeal: mkay, I'll tell them it's in the logs https://imgflip.com/i/9iu9z
assbot: Image tagged in lawgs - Imgflip
asciilifeform: ok looks like author pointed it out: 'What's the economic reason of making software fake of well-known chip instead of making new one under your own name? This way they don't need to buy USB VID, sign drivers in Microsoft, no expenses on advertisement. This fake chip will be used right away in numerous mass-manufactured products.'
bounce: what's the cost of getting a driver signed and added to the store by redmond?
nubbins`: $$$$
mircea_popescu: a coupla k's it was
nubbins`: wait, well.
nubbins`: like $4k for vendor id and driver signing
nubbins`: with the bulk of that being for the VID
jurov: git clone http://therealbitcoin.org/test/bitcoin.git just trying out the setup... works, but with mysterious 403 thrown for good measure
mircea_popescu is not impressed by this spoon theory.
bounce: stopped reading the thing. too wordy, going nowhere.
mircea_popescu: basically it's a "hey, homeostatic systems have finite recourse"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it wasn't an intellectual breakthrough of any kind whatsoever - but is apparently 'canonical' among the community of the Officially Sad.
mircea_popescu: yeah bitch, they do. nevertheless, ever since i can recall my process was to stay up until i was sleepy and then sleep until i woke up.
mircea_popescu: and then eat when hungry and so on. caesar's method.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that only works if you're caesar - or at least, a free man.
mircea_popescu: yeah, well...
mircea_popescu: i was when i was 6, too.
jurov: i guess parents did not destroy your endocrine system by placating you with sweets
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was 6 << easy then
mircea_popescu: jurov no, actually, i ate so much sugar it was scary.
mircea_popescu: one of the things in family folklore re my childhood is this one time when they got a large jar of homemade jam from up in the pantry where it was kept (why ?) and while discussing if to make it crepes or what
mircea_popescu: i ate it.
mircea_popescu: 50lb kid, 1lb apricot jam, 50% sugar by weight.
asciilifeform: in usa, food (at least if you like recycled food!) is free as air. sleep - is for royalty.
mircea_popescu: i dunno, i slept pretty well there. nice idea the boxspring
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: again, you. not us inmates.
mircea_popescu: but i am not royalty!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: but - yer not an inmate.
mircea_popescu: anyway, there is some merit to this entire "sucks to be me" approach to obesity. while i have been catching on a little weight as an adult male, it's still mostly a case of, if i overeat my body just turns it to heat, usually on the spot.
mircea_popescu: "why am i so hot ? a wait, that was a third desert wasn't it. plus alcohol."
asciilifeform: at some point we'll learn the secret of adjusting the thermostat, so to speak, of the body - and then people will blast themselves to hell with free radicals instead of dying of fat. choose ice vs. fire death, yes.
bounce: spontaneous combustion and so on
asciilifeform: combustion << nah, just regular cellular aging.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11165 @ 0.00073488 = 8.2049 BTC [-]
nubbins`: box spring is best spring
asciilifeform: my mental concept of freedom is more or less synonymous with never setting an alarm clock again.
nubbins`: jurov 403 forbidden indeed!
jurov: but it doesn't say which url exactly
asciilifeform: food? sex? slave can get these. sleep ad libitum - is the mark of the free man.
assbot: dpaste: 10SKRWS
undata: as long as you're somewhere where the sun will wake you up
undata: side note: I happen to be an inmate that sleeps when he pleases
nubbins`: jurov what do server logs say
undata: americans are just lazy; you can still have freedom here
bounce: that hungarian "internet tax", 150 forints / gigabyte (or part thereof). that's .49 euro / gigabyte.
bounce: doesn't say if that's for mobile only or fixed too.
undata: speaking of inmates.
asciilifeform: you - which you. herr buffett can sleep when he pleases, likewise, i hear.
undata: it doesn't take that much wealth to self-sustain
undata: again: laziness.
nubbins`: it's more a function of what you consume than what your income is
asciilifeform: it doesn't take that much wealth to self-sustain << Mega-Lol!
undata: segue to circle-jerk
BingoBoingo: ;;google extreme early retirement
gribble: Early Retirement Extreme: — a combination of simple living ...: <http://earlyretirementextreme.com/>; Early Retirement Extreme Forums • Index page: <http://forum.earlyretirementextreme.com/>; What 30-Year-Old Retirees Can Teach The Rest Of Us - Forbes: <http://www.forbes.com/sites/nextavenue/2014/03/21/what-30-year-old-retirees-can-teach-the-rest-of-us/>
undata: I suppose all 320mil of us work at McDonalds leaving only to go through the drive-through at Burger King in your fantasy.
asciilifeform: the only 'early retirement' available to everyone is the 'last bullet retirement fund.'
undata: asciilifeform: you said you were russian, right?
undata: speaking of countries filled with useless people
asciilifeform: undata: usa 1992-present
nubbins`: ;;google freedom 35
undata: asciilifeform: I share the distaste for merkuh, but... broad brush.
nubbins`: 1992, the year punk broke
nubbins`: asciilifeform came to see a sonic youth show and never left
asciilifeform: undata: my criticism here is not usa-specific. applies to all industrial nations.
undata: then granted
bounce: "broad brush" "no broader brush" "oh okay"
asciilifeform: undata: except that in usa and its colonies, the slaves derp on about being some kind of 'free' despite not even being permitted to sleep.
undata: bounce: as long as we're all covered in shit.
undata: some socialist logic for you
bounce: you pinko commie socialist, you
undata: ha beat you
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> my mental concept of freedom is more or less synonymous with never setting an alarm clock again. << ha! not even for say, a comet ?
bounce: yeah yeah you're first, you win
undata: bounce: trying to balance out the socialism, ok?
asciilifeform: ok alarm clock, but only if i want. for comet. that's it.
mircea_popescu: <bounce> that hungarian "internet tax", 150 forints / gigabyte (or part thereof). that's .49 euro / gigabyte. <<< it's al ulzfest. the gb costs about 1 cent or so atm.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> you - which you. herr buffett can sleep when he pleases, likewise, i hear. << not so. not when the dow is ding ding dinging downwards.
bounce: depends on where you get it. mobile or fixed or wholesale
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24600 @ 0.00073488 = 18.078 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: well in the same sense brent is 100 bux a barrel
mircea_popescu: sure, "depoends where you get it".
mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> asciilifeform came to see a sonic youth show and never left << lol too funnay.
asciilifeform: i'll feel sorry for herr b when he has to live in a rented hovel and wake to an alarm bell. and follow orders.
BingoBoingo wishes for gas station gift card deniminated in gallons of gas rather than dollars of gas.
mircea_popescu: now that's a good one
BingoBoingo: I'd simply hodl it and use the appreciation to get the liquor
bounce didn't catch where they were levying that tax, or what they were imagining the prices currently paid to be
asciilifeform: came to see a sonic << if only. brought as a boy and ended up with no other citizenship just like parents (no automagic su->ru citizenship for folks who packed up prior to '94, if i recall)
mike_c: BingoBoingo: this exists. http://www.mygallons.com/
assbot: MyGallons.com. Tomorrow’s gas. Today’s prices.
nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> <asciilifeform> my mental concept of freedom is more or less synonymous with never setting an alarm clock again. << ha! not even for say, a comet ? <<< i'm down to one alarm a week
nubbins`: amazing the effect this has on one's attitude and outlook
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "20% difficulty increase before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1036/ Odds: 34(Y):66(N) by coin, 38(Y):62(N) by weight. Total bet: 27.73541987 BTC. Current weight: 43,652.
assbot: CVE -Search Results
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but you were born in odessa ? then you do have ru citizenship no ?
BingoBoingo: Everyone look and see if you can spot the new design++ http://qntra.net/
assbot: Qntra.net | Bitcoin News, Views & Commentary
BingoBoingo: mike_c: Seems shady, 404 on the "how this works" page
mike_c: yeah, i ran into it a couple years ago. seems to have lost steam with falling gas prices (shocking).
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6250 @ 0.00073765 = 4.6103 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: incidentally, this: http://imgur.com/a/8f0ge is the man who killed the armed gunman at the canadian parliament today
assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
BingoBoingo: I'd more prefer a solution offered by a conveniece store chain I despise.
nubbins`: and yes he wears that sword every day
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Did he kill him with the mace?
mircea_popescu: who killed the unarmed gunman ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Looks like the Seargent at Arms
BingoBoingo: From nubbins` pic
mircea_popescu: ahahahaha fucked him with the mace of office ?
BingoBoingo: I hope
nubbins`: BingoBoingo indeed the sgt at arms
nubbins`: apparently emptied his weapon, went back to his office to grab more bullets
BingoBoingo knew Model UN would be useful for something
nubbins`: i was ethiopia
BingoBoingo: I chaired the Science and Technology committee.
BingoBoingo: Was a $1000 a year discount on tuition
mircea_popescu: "The engineNextBytes function in classlib/modules/security/src/main/java/common/org/apache/harmony/security/provider/crypto/SHA1PRNG_SecureRandomImpl.java in the SecureRandom implementation in Apache Harmony through 6.0M3, as used in the Java Cryptography Architecture (JCA) in Android before 4.4 and other products, when no seed is provided by the user, uses an incorrect offset value, which makes it easier for attackers
mircea_popescu: to defeat cryptographic protection mechanisms by leveraging the resulting PRNG predictability, as exploited in the wild against Bitcoin wallet applications in August 2013."
mircea_popescu: quite. mp still recalls the profusely apologetic "we fucked up the init and consequently ppl got pwned" stuff coming out of the chief scientists
mircea_popescu: "The HTTPAuthorized function in bitcoinrpc.cpp in bitcoind 0.8.1 provides information about authentication failure upon detecting the first incorrect byte of a password, which makes it easier for remote attackers to determine passwords via a timing side-channel attack."
mircea_popescu: easier ? lolk.
nubbins`: lel does it really?
nubbins`: "what's your password?" "P-A-S-S-Q.." "WRONG"
assbot: Tim Lincecum Missed The World Series Intros Because He Was Barfing
assbot: Cops: Substitute Teacher Gave H.S. Footballer Oral Sex During Pep Rally
BingoBoingo: Also www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/haunted-house-assault-lawsuit-786543
bounce: which reminds me. there need to be automated regression tests.
pete_dushenski: time to chime in on the new bitcoin name:
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform:ditch the fractional versions. 1, 2, 3, infinity. natural numbers. << except we use.... roman numerals.
mircea_popescu: the substitute head seems a good idea.
pete_dushenski: i, ii, iii, vi, v, etc.
nubbins`: gross
nubbins`: bitcoin MCMXLVIII
BingoBoingo: So... anyone spot the new qntra design++ yet?
ben_vulpes: <nubbins`> bitcoin x << ah, this
jurov: gray background?
pete_dushenski: nubbins` jeez lowercase.
nubbins`: ben_vulpes 8)
BingoBoingo: jurov: Close, look higher
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes rite.
jurov: the "menu"?
BingoBoingo: higher...
nubbins`: i'd guess the favicon even though it hasn't loaded for me yet
pete_dushenski: eh qntra is down for me.
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: It is the favicon
jurov: i see no favicon
nubbins` claps
BingoBoingo: jurov: Using Firefox?
BingoBoingo: jurov: Won't show until you restart firefox
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: yes
mircea_popescu: what is it, like a coil of rope ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It's Just a Q and an n
pete_dushenski: los_pantalones: just heard these guys closed 50mm << inching closer to that magic $bn
pete_dushenski: lol blockstream has "gregory maxwell" on its list of founders.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Do you know what the truly beautiful thing about softforks is?
nubbins`: jurov git works now. what version is this?
BingoBoingo: Maybe not beautiful, but sublime?
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo that b-a is behind them?
jurov: nubbins` just a clone of github
nubbins`: ah kk
jurov: git does not like getting 403 instead of 404
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: No, that they prevent people using newer software from making or recognizing certain transactions.
jurov: nubbins` an idea: what about making the Q more like opinion bubble?
jurov: like speech in comics
nubbins`: nice idea
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo heh.
mircea_popescu: qntra needs a bikshed.
jurov: and trollbox!!!1
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: That is the literal reading of the Thermos bitcoin wiki definition of softfork
BingoBoingo: jurov: But this is trollbox
pete_dushenski: so i'm guessing no spv will work on the bitcoin i ? so no more multibit?
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Older version of Multibit don't need bloom filters...
BingoBoingo: Also as I said last night, running the occasional 0.8.x node is polite...
jurov: and i asked last night, what's so evil about 0.8/9?
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo ok. so up to what version of multibit are we talking here?
pete_dushenski surfs multibit github
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Well I use 0.5.11 because it is what still lets me use higher than pennies tx fees
BingoBoingo: jurov: I think the evil is simply the distance + proximity to Hearn
BingoBoingo: jurov: At least as far as concretes can be found
assbot: CryptoCoinsNews Is Anything But | Qntra.net
jurov: seems rather superstitious to me... but yes, starting at 0.5 and adding new stuff only after review is a plan
BingoBoingo: Superstitious in itself is not ideal, but... Hearn did trigger a hardfork...
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo ya i'm rocking 0.5.14
jurov: hue
mircea_popescu: jurov the major code reorg that caused a fork. factual.
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: The idea I floated last week was purple and orange, but cazalla reminded me colorblindness is a thing.
nubbins`: sure is
nubbins`: so, green on red?
jurov: iirc bdb caused a fork, no?
mircea_popescu: jurov no.
BingoBoingo: jurov: Leveldb caused fork nominally
mircea_popescu: leveldb / poorly understood / not tested new code caused a fork
mircea_popescu: supposedly this was accidental. i never bought it.
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Honestly, prolly best to remain greyscal friendly
mircea_popescu: leveldb in and of itself is whatever, maybe not the first choice for a db. leveldb as implemented by hearn was an attack on bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: the fact that we survived does not mean they didn't try.
BingoBoingo: Leveldb google turd does actually seem to be higher performance than the BDB oracle turd, but... yes consequences.
BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 326536 | Current Difficulty: 3.500248202613323E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 326591 | Next Difficulty In: 55 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 8 hours, 5 minutes, and 53 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 36054837706.0 | Estimated Percent Change: 3.00652
jurov: okay i see, there's lot of new code not properly reviewed
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo MultiBit Version 0.5.11 Changes + Implemented issue 96 - Sign and Verify message. << that's it!
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: And after that I wanted for nothing more from an SPV client
BingoBoingo: Just to verify messages
BingoBoingo: !up xinxi
atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 469547.73 Est. Next Diff: 634748.22 in 1303 blocks (#48384) Est. % Change: 35.18
atcbot: >> No data returned from CoinMiner.net << [PityThePool Hashrate]: 1502.67 GH/s [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 1.38 TH/s [P2P Hashrate]: 0.00 TH/s
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo the only interesting one you're missing out on is "#181. Improved build to check dependencies using Gary's dependency checker." lol
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: It's a java turd. I holds keys with decreasing amounts of funds and handles a few adresses funds might still come to.
ben_vulpes: was someone hosting some git repos?
BingoBoingo: It's more private than using electrum on a public server, but far from using an actual client
pete_dushenski: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 326536 | Current Difficulty: 3.500248202613323E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 326591 | Next Difficulty In: 55 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 8 hours, 5 minutes, and 53 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 36054837706.0 | Estimated Percent Change: 3.00652
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo ya i don't mind it at all :)
mircea_popescu: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/index.html << check out kent pitman allll over salon.com with the "global warming" thingee
assbot: Kent Pitman's Home Page
mircea_popescu: this is so lulzy.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Sort of thing you might use on a netbook with just enough BTC to pay your own ransom
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu did you see piketty's letter about gw?
mircea_popescu: prolly not ?
bounce: another interesting task: figure out what the db really needs to be doing then find well-tested code that can do it
assbot: I was wondering when the rockstar economist Thomas Piketty would enter the climate debate... http://t.co/V2aOWzwWPQ http://t.co/vpt4SBE2w9
pete_dushenski: ^first link is for ft, second to photograb
nubbins`: ben_vulpes therealbitcoin.org
mircea_popescu: ah, that guy. meh, whatever.
mircea_popescu couldn't give less of a shit about whatever "star" the ustardians have produced this week.
mircea_popescu: i might review what this guy has to say sometime in 21xx, maybe.
mircea_popescu: probably not.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo paying your own ransom?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu i'd be highly surprised.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Well, if you can.
BingoBoingo: Has wallet encryption. You can "given them your last penny" to the extent they can see it...
BingoBoingo: Paying one's own ransom as a protocol probably won't be perfected though until assbot's level 1 consists entirely of nuclear powers.
mircea_popescu: jurov: wtf is "individual terrorist undertaking"? << basically, what you're doing here.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo a yes, the $900k coin!
BingoBoingo: "Data Center that can't be disconnected" from a safe range
mircea_popescu: chetty incidentally, the french are also building their own gulag, huh
BingoBoingo: After that we just need a few super mutants and then New Reno
mircea_popescu: bounce: announce that loud and clear and everybody knows what the score is. "if you want to go there, you're dead to us." << it won't work.
BingoBoingo: Nah, they are just aping the us like the monkeys those frogs really are
mircea_popescu: france is dead, notjust ot them, to everyone.
mircea_popescu: bounce: I don't care if maladjusted angry youths want to run away and make trouble in a war zone. I do care if they come back, recruit some more kids (to do the same), cause trouble, shoot some jews, what have you. << how else do you expect the shithole to be fixed ?
mircea_popescu: "Three Colorado high school students may have been playing hooky so they could run away and join ISIS — apparently seduced by their twisted campaign of terror and hatred. The girls, ages 15, 16 and 17, never showed up to their Denver-area school on Friday because they were en route to Turkey via Germany," <<< much better chicks than any "feminist" or w/e.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: White kids from ladue studying with Black kids from Ferguson and North City?
mircea_popescu: these are the generation leaders.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11336 @ 0.00073881 = 8.3752 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: Oh invoking ISIS raises MPOE?
BingoBoingo: !up AdamIRAway
mircea_popescu: apparently you can void passports for truancy now, in the bestest america.
undata: you can void life without due process; what's a passport?
BingoBoingo: You can apparently void passports for angry county courts in Usia
mircea_popescu: undata the same obnoxious farts that create this "passport" that means no rights are also wondering why even a teenager if she has any sense wants to bomb them off the planet.
mircea_popescu: year, really, i wonder why the fuck is it that the best kids that the us can produce want to go help isis burn the whole world.
mircea_popescu: it certainly couldn't be because the world sucks, right ?
undata: mircea_popescu: that's that suicidal streak I was talking about
undata: US culture is as ready to kill itself as the rest of the world is to help it do so.
mircea_popescu: othernubs`: i thought medium was the sort of site where literally anyone can publish? <<< medium is, essentially, the sort of venue created to give the impression of a #b-a to the 99% idiots who can't tell the difference.
mircea_popescu: so as to create the illusion that there's no actual support for simple stuff like "either you renounce ALL your laws or we burn you to the ground."
mircea_popescu: i forget what this is called in us politics, but o yeah, "splitting the vote"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: but you were born in odessa ? then you do have ru citizenship no? << lol! the whole city would've emptied in '92 or even earlier, if this were so.
mircea_popescu: but... wait dude.
mircea_popescu: you were born there. what more ?
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu "either you renounce ALL your laws or we burn you to the ground." << now here's a radical concept. probably the same one that was invoked at parliament hill today
jurov: mircea_popescu: odessa changed country meanwhile
pete_dushenski: i'm off to watch grown ass men with skates chase a black disk around a frozen pond. enjoy your eve b-a!
BingoBoingo impressed that Argentine citizenship merely requires two years residence and an income, true land of the free
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell pete_dushenski I think the game was postponed
gribble: The operation succeeded.
jurov: !s asciilifeform passport
assbot: 35 results for 'asciilifeform passport' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=asciilifeform+passport
jurov: !s asciilifeform russian passport
assbot: 5 results for 'asciilifeform russian passport' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=asciilifeform+russian+passport
kakobrekla: and thats how doxing is done
mircea_popescu: jurov oh i see
jurov: !dox asciilifeform
assbot: !s asciilifeform russian passport
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you were born there. what more << ussr kaput
mircea_popescu: so ? still automatic citizenship!11
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: naive idea. they unplugged this, to avoid ru proper being swamped with the entire contents of kazahstan, ua, baltics, all the provinces
mircea_popescu: mod6: me too, that threw me off. but maybe i did something silly with the install by creating a root account? i'm not super clued on deb... but it asked me to make a root account first, then a user account. so that was kinda bizzare to me. << no that's how debian did it for what, 10, 15 years ?
asciilifeform: it was still swamped, against rules, and the people who did the swamping accounted for a large fraction of the bums which appeared during collapse
asciilifeform: at any rate, even if herr putin mailed me a ru passport as perverse birthday present, fat lot of good that would do. need a lot more than a passport to leave the 'big zone.'
jurov: only hungary does not need to fear such swamping can do "if you had ancestors in Big Hungary 100yr ago, here's your passport"
asciilifeform: ireland, i think, too
jurov: *Great Hungary to label the delusion properly
mircea_popescu: finally done with logs o.O
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: congrats
mircea_popescu: jurov jews are similar. romania too.
mircea_popescu: pretty much everyone, really. germany definitely, if you were born there.
mircea_popescu: us citizens on army bases routinely get dual citizenship kids if they become pregnant and deliver
asciilifeform: i've been informed that the usual excursions where people take pregnant women to usa, have reversed.
asciilifeform: or maybe it was just orlov.
undata: canada will readmit children of a canadian citizen
undata: sadly I'm two steps removed
mircea_popescu: i think the bar for thai citizenship is having sex with a trannie
asciilifeform: at any rate, no one is stranded in usa solely because of passports.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> mod6: me too, that threw me off. but maybe i did something silly with the install by creating a root account? i'm not super clued on deb... but it asked me to make a root account first, then a user account. so that was kinda bizzare to me. << no that's how debian did it for what, 10, 15 years ? << I thought it was just Ubuntu that only made a user account they'd turn into a super sudoer
asciilifeform: one can buy passport
asciilifeform: just like one can buy freedom
undata: mircea_popescu: haaaa
jurov: there must be some statistic how price of uprooting increases with age
jurov: hope bitcoin will grow faster
asciilifeform: how does it increase with age?
undata: don't buy a bunch of garbage if you're headed out.
asciilifeform must have missed something
jurov: at 20 it's pretty much 0
asciilifeform: undata: garbage can be packed into crates and shipped
jurov: then it goes up
asciilifeform: undata: if one must have it
undata: asciilifeform: yep, or that.
undata: jurov: I would say maybe leaving behind business contacts has a cost, but the internet solves that.
undata: and bitcoin solves getting paid by them
BingoBoingo: Buy truck, drive to panama, 4 digit number to move truck around the Darien last time I priced it.
asciilifeform: i guess there's the elementary fact that a 70 y.o. head of a firm cannot turn into a 20. y.o. apprentice again
TheNewDeal: rapeghost =?= rg
BingoBoingo: TheNewDeal: Yes
jurov: TheNewDeal yes ====
asciilifeform: undata: the internet solves that << if only.
undata: depends on what kind of business then
TheNewDeal: finally serving my sentence
BingoBoingo: TheNewDeal: Mine any news yet?
TheNewDeal: let me run one by you
BingoBoingo: TheNewDeal: Go
TheNewDeal: gotta keep it suuuper seektret
asciilifeform: git clone http://therealbitcoin.org/test/bitcoin.git <<<< wtf nonsense is this, that's 2014 bitcoind in there.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: do you know who maintains that site?
asciilifeform: at any rate, imho git is entirely the wrong pill here.
assbot: Logged on 22-10-2014 20:33:59; asciilifeform: i suggest going with whoever had the mailing list idea. emphasize the 'we sign things and so mechanism doesn't matter' aspect.
asciilifeform: static www hosting latest stable result of composition of gpg-signed patches from mailing list - yes, more yoga, but ultimately the Right Thing.
jurov: yes, i just wanted to test, as it says
asciilifeform: git etc. is very tempting, sweet, yes
asciilifeform: but wrong for this occasion.
BingoBoingo: CVS ???
asciilifeform: forsaking version control systems entirely!
asciilifeform: the only way to emphasize the gravity of submitting a change to bitcoind.
jurov: um
jurov: that could apply once we're close to the ideal
jurov: or are we already?
asciilifeform: it's the only way to actually get somewhere with the old tub we have.
jurov: so you say what will be hosted - only list of patches and a script
asciilifeform: the somewhere, incidentally, is a stable satoshi-based gizmo worth using as a base for rewrite (idk about other folks, i shall rewrite for my own pleasure if no one wants, once finished with current affairs) - and perhaps worth printing!
jurov: that will verify and apply them?
asciilifeform: suggested script.
asciilifeform: only really need stock gpg to verify.
asciilifeform: and pubkeys naturally
asciilifeform: jurov: also host a copy of the present state of the mailing list, perhaps
asciilifeform: static html.
jurov: yes
asciilifeform: since, at least in the mechanism i suggested, no message shall be ever published that is not signed, any reader can verify that the mailing list is authentic.
BingoBoingo: <jurov> so you say what will be hosted - only list of patches and a script << I actually imagined set of books for the core an annumal supplement book of refinemnts
jurov: with a patch to mailman?
asciilifeform: patch to mailman << why ?
jurov: to reject unsigned msgs
asciilifeform: yes, that's the only work-like part of this proposal, yes
asciilifeform: incidentally, anyone who wants to mirror the proposed mailing list, will be able to do so at his pleasure.
asciilifeform: instant anti-ddos pill
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: DO you want me to rip my openbsd cd's and upload them somewhere?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what vintage?
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: I may be able to fulfill your order with nubbins` help
thestringpuller: It would be leatherbound and you can also engrave
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: afaik it has not yet been decided what ought to be between the pages...
thestringpuller: a writer buddy of mine does bookbinding of journals as one of his fanatical things
asciilifeform: i've bound an odd book here & there.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: 5.5
thestringpuller: so once you figure that out, nubbins can do a good printing job
nubbins`: it's good exercise for the fingers
thestringpuller: and then you can send it here to have it bound
nubbins`: and an excuse to own a small hammer
asciilifeform: 5.5 is almost new
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: 5.5 is the first version after I cared to get the physical CD's
BingoBoingo: 5.6 comes out next month
danielpbarron got 2 copies of 5.5 from 2 different sources
asciilifeform is presently engaged in trying to collect the smallest (bitwise) possible bsd+gcc+etc combo that will build bitcoind 0.5-0.6
asciilifeform: cross-compilation for linux/x86
danielpbarron: and by copies i mean cd sets
jurov: i'll look into the mailman
asciilifeform: my present emulation, incidentally, is not to have network access
asciilifeform: controlled through (emulated) serial tty.
asciilifeform: and this, imho, is proper.
nubbins`: nice
BingoBoingo doesn't know if OpenBSD plus userland can be stripped to 1 FDD...
decimation: asciilifeform: bitcoind begs to be split into at least 3 programs
bounce: don't think so.
bounce: there's picobsd or nanobsd or whatwasit
bounce: for the one floppy trick you'd probably need qnx or so, but not sure if bitcoind would fit with that, even after you kicked out photon and the browser
BingoBoingo: bounce: Many of those abandoned, poor rng and gcc as FreeBSD derivatives
bounce: decimation: which three are you proposing?
BingoBoingo: <bounce> for the one floppy trick you'd probably need qnx or so, but not sure if bitcoind would fit with that, even after you kicked out photon and the browser << QNX that Blackberry thing?
bounce: qnx was a thing way before blackberry existed
BingoBoingo: bounce: I imagine BitcoinNetwork, BitcoinBlockhandler, BitcoinWallet
bounce: they did a one floppy demo once (twice, there's the xmas edition) that let you boot a full graphical desktop plus browser
BingoBoingo: <bounce> qnx was a thing way before blackberry existed << Indeed, but way for a decent RTOS to ruin the last Mobile OS
bounce: oh c'mon with the quoting
BingoBoingo: What there's a temporary Vag shortage so queefing is out of the question
bounce: well yeah I'm not too happy bb bought it up, no matter how good it'd be for them. qnx was a bit floundering though, that with everyone running off to leen0x and no real hardware incentive for what makes qnx special. just throw more hardware at the problem and it's sorted. (the beancounters think)
decimation: 1.) blockchain gather/relay 2.) transaction accumulate/relay 3.) blockchain database 4.) own transaction receive/generate 5.) wallet crypto
bounce: then again, bb is floundering too. won't be the first time some company buys up something good for a bout of fleeing forward, goes down anyway and takes the good with it
BingoBoingo: bounce: Well worse is when the company buys a floundering product and hides it to success like Intel did with DEC ALpha
asciilifeform: decimation: bitcoind begs to be split into at least 3 programs << of which only 1 is necessary !
asciilifeform: bounce: floppy << not for the whole orchestra, no. gcc alone, think! but to get minimal skeletal userland.
bounce: switch to a smaller cc first? :-p
asciilifeform: fabrice bellard's tinycc would be neat, but no cpp.
asciilifeform: and satoshi crapped out cpp and used cpp-dependant dependencies.
BingoBoingo: Boost is a bitch
asciilifeform: if someone wants to try building a cpp preprocessor using tinycc - be the hero, yes.
joecool: BingoBoingo: bb10 is not that bad, come on
bounce: boost is a bit ludicrous, even for the c++ course
mircea_popescu: <jurov> there must be some statistic how price of uprooting increases with age >> it does ? why would it ?
BingoBoingo: joecool: BB9 was perfect for what a person could expect out of a mobile turd os though
asciilifeform: ^ i did point out.
bounce: why'd you want to distribute the cc if you're going to distribute binaries?
BingoBoingo: bounce: So people can reproduce binaries
asciilifeform: bounce: we were discussing an ideally-portable and self-contained distributable build system.
bounce: then split it in a full build-everything-from-source thing and a shrunk binary-only thing
asciilifeform: that never pulls - anything - off the net on its own accord.
joecool: BingoBoingo: 9? did you mean 7?
asciilifeform: shrunk binary-only thing is the binary.
bounce: full source is never going to work on a floppy, unless you can make xor compression work
asciilifeform: any of the 29 (?) magickey holders can make you one & sign it
asciilifeform: i explained the floppy
BingoBoingo: joecool: Whatever came before 10 and had wifi calling and the vibrating dildo function
asciilifeform: even the source doesn't fit on floppy
bounce: probably flew me by, sorry
joecool: BingoBoingo: i dunno, 10 still has that too
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> instant anti-ddos pill << this is like saying that because anyone can wget -m qntra.net that's an anti ddos pill
BingoBoingo: joecool: But 10 doesn't work on preferred hardware.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it would be, if it were simple to mirror. and every post signed.
asciilifeform: and presuming folks wanted to.
asciilifeform: need both the will and the way.
cazalla: i got a response from paydici if anyone was interested in yesterdays article http://qntra.net/2014/10/bitpay-to-assist-paydici-to-enable-bitcoin-based-recurring-billing/
assbot: BitPay To Assist Paydici To Enable Bitcoin Based Recurring Billing | Qntra.net
asciilifeform: qnx << a very interesting item, and i loved playing with it when young, but it was inevitably bulldozed by the age of no-you-can't-make-money-selling-close-os-unless-you-re-apple-or-microshit
asciilifeform: *closed
asciilifeform: or, one might add, green hills corp.
asciilifeform: whose owner invented 'linux fud' !
asciilifeform: (their entire business model consists of 'we're rather like linux, but closed-source and nsa-approved, one hundred percent Aryan')
bounce: so qnx lacked military connections and dishonesty to succeed
asciilifeform: actually it had connections, and, afaik, still runs on various 'if they told you they'd have to kill you' hardware - but not a going concern
asciilifeform: at any rate:
asciilifeform: there is nothing magic about qnx.
asciilifeform: it is only less of a turd than other unix-likes because:
asciilifeform: there's less of it.
asciilifeform: (bitwise)
asciilifeform: therefore closer to 'fits in head.'
asciilifeform: about similar (in conceptual 'weight' rather than design!) to the unix described in 'lions book.'
assbot: Julian Assange: "Bitcoin's Blockchain Most Intellectually Interesting Development In The Last Five Years | Qntra.net
assbot: Did bubonic plague really cause the Black Death? - health - 24 November 2001 - New Scientist
BingoBoingo: Oh Today's World Series game is competitive
BingoBoingo: Fuck Hunter Pence looks like an extra from Breaking Bad, methed out motherfucker
asciilifeform: 'They are not the first to blame Ebola for an ancient plague. Scientists and classicists in San Diego reported in 1996 that the symptoms of the plague of Athens around 430 BC, described by Thucydides, are remarkably similar to Ebola, including a distinctive retching or hiccupping. Apart from that, many of the symptoms of that plague- – and one in Constantinople in AD 540 – -were similar to the Black Death.'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Familiar with Hanta or any other new worls scourges?
asciilifeform: 'Eurasian hantaviruses can incubate for up to 42 days, but are not usually directly contagious between people.' (linked piece)
BingoBoingo: The New Reno region mircea_popescu wants to playground eventually as new world hantaviruses, keep your distance from the mice...
decimation: qnx was fun. did they ever have a multiprocessing variant?
decimation: heh http://www.qnx.com/developers/docs/6.3.0SP3/neutrino/sys_arch/smp.html#SMP " Symmetric multiprocessing addresses the issue by running only one copy of Neutrino on all of the system's CPUs."
assbot: QNX Developer Support
BingoBoingo: decimation: BB10? Think it was bigkernellock like OpenBSD though
decimation: the c-machine is a mistake, but ganging multiple c-machines was an even bigger mistake
mircea_popescu: cazalla the sorrow in that "That's about as close as you can get with BitCoin." is delicious.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Cazalla as head of qntra was a gift that keeps giving. Dude knows tone.
mircea_popescu: <assbot> Julian Assange: "Bitcoin's Blockchain Most Intellectually Interesting Development In The Last Five Years | Qntra.net << for sure.
decimation: the implication being that assange has accomplished little with his derpcapade
mircea_popescu: comparatively less does not mean little.
mircea_popescu: it just means everyone else is drowning in their own shit
cazalla: mircea_popescu, the reminder emails will probably get bitpay flagged for spam too
mircea_popescu: nah, they probably paid the payola
mircea_popescu: (the way "spam" works is you pay yahoo 100 bux or w/e, never get fglagged. dun recall right off what google is)
decimation: assange and his crew struck me as a naive bunch whose position is "we want a loving mommy state"
cazalla: decimation, he is quite soft when it comes to shit like aboriginals
decimation: cazalla: interesting. what does that mean exactly? more welfare?
cazalla: more everything at cost to the tax payer
decimation: plus apologizing for forcing their children to go to school and beating them until they learned?
mircea_popescu: you know if you dig deep enough everyone's going to have a bunch of idiotic notions.
mircea_popescu: best take people at their peak
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: All officers and directors voluntarily agreed to the Company's redemption of an aggregate of 12,750,000 shares of common stock for an aggregate payment of $2,491. In doing so, the Company will have further flexibility in continuing to strengthen its balance sheet and ultimately add shareholder value. << could you help me decipher what is going on here accounting wise?
mircea_popescu: they bought back their own stock ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu> best take people at their peak << Great value of a WoT system as here has is you can know what their bottom is
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: that's what I thought but based on these numbers...($2491 for ~13mn shares doesn't add up to the published market value as it looks like the ask value is ~ 8 cents a share)
mircea_popescu: at any rate, that's what it should mean, regardless what they actuall did.
cazalla: decimation, that's already been done and now they want compensation, the abos want to live off the land but government is determined to stop them no matter how much it costs
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 2,491 / 12,750,000
gribble: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 2491 / 12750000
gribble: 0.00019537254902
thestringpuller: http://investors.btcs.com/ << bottom of page has stock price
mircea_popescu: does it say who it redeemed from ?
thestringpuller: just "it was redeemed"
decimation: cazalla: that's pretty much how it works in the us and canada too
mircea_popescu: yeah well, basically, this is a disguised gift of stock from directors / interested parties to company
mircea_popescu: designed to increase per share value.
mircea_popescu: borderline fraudulent.
thestringpuller: okay that's what BingoBoingo and I thought. thanks for clarifying.
cazalla: decimation, they're not all bad, i had a good abo mate through school but once they hit 13, they just want to go lighting fires and breaking into corner shops etc etc sniffing a bit of 98 octane as well
decimation: they huff petrol? that's crazy
mircea_popescu: this idea that what people want matters as a universal...
mircea_popescu: who the fuck came up with this dumb shit.
BingoBoingo: Fuck this World Series
cazalla: yeah, they lock the bowser at some petrol stations because they come in with a jerry can, fill up and leave without paying
decimation: I have a friend who works in a hospital indian health service (branch of usg). she says the majority of us indians are drunks
mircea_popescu: decimation so are the majority of irishmen
decimation: ironically the irish got their own 'independence'
cazalla: basically, if ever confronted with violent aboriginal in australia, pop ya petrol tank cap and tell him "good sniff bro"
mircea_popescu kinda likes the smell of gasoline
BingoBoingo: I feel gypped, the Kaufman stadium fountains appear to be off.
BingoBoingo: This is nothing like Ken Griffey Jr presents Baseball
kakobrekla: as promised i have setup a mirror for ze logs - http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com - hosting for the mirror gratuitously provided by mircea_popescu
assbot: #bitcoin-assets log - mirror 1
mircea_popescu: gratuitously means pointlessly yo!
kakobrekla: take it up with mp.
cazalla: mircea_popescu, here ya go, much safer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opal_%28fuel%29
assbot: Opal (fuel) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
mircea_popescu: Opal is a variety of low-aromatic << that'd be a problem
decimation: lol they used leaded gas before that?
decimation: that's crazy
BingoBoingo: Who didn't use leaded gas?
cazalla: i think that was phased out mid 90s decimation
decimation: even in the us that was gone by the 70's I think
BingoBoingo: For the hell of it I may or may not have driven a tank of leaded gas winter of 2006...
decimation: I guess the ban didn't go into full effect in the us until 96
cazalla: actually, i just checked, phase out began 2000 and ended 2002.. good sniff that
decimation: people bitch because aviation gas in the us still has lead
BingoBoingo: decimation: Sh... let me kill a few more cat converters first
joecool: <cazalla> i think that was phased out mid 90s decimation < not in planes
assbot: Avgas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
decimation: "It contains about one-half the TEL allowed in 100/130 (green), though the amount is about 4 times what was in pre-1975 leaded automotive grade gasoline."
decimation: so, if you live near an airport with small planes, you are being showered with organic lead
mircea_popescu: best tomatoes!
cazalla: joecool, i pray our aboriginals don't find this out or they might introduce TSA here
assbot: Video shows a man got onto White House grounds, was surrounded by Secret Service agents. Man literally punched a dog that ran at him.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> best tomatoes! << We still have tomatoes ripening...
TheNewDeal: Anyone attempted to sell a call option on BTC for a cash trade. If so, how was it received by the other party?
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Our plants started ripening in late july and we still have new tomatos...
cazalla: would be nice to have home grown ones in the winter
cazalla: july being middle of winter here
BingoBoingo: July's normally peak summer here, but... we never get consistent weather
thestringpuller: cazalla: july being middle of winter here << the joys of the southern hemisphere
Pierre_Rochard: I’m looking forward to the new foundation & its ‘fork’
decimation: it turns out that the pilot of the 'zombine plane' that flew over cuba and crashed had asked the usg air controller for a lower altitude twice http://www.flyingmag.com/technique/accidents/doomed-tbm-900-pilot-twice-asked-lower-altitude
assbot: 403 Forbidden
decimation: he was flying the first production model of the tbm-900, a single-engine turboprop plane
BingoBoingo: Fuck this might be the most boring worls series
cazalla: why do they call it the world series if all the teams are American
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Well, a lot of players are latin american
mircea_popescu: !up Evolyn
BingoBoingo: The way the World Baseball classic works is usually the Whole United States gets beat by a small part of the US
BingoBoingo: cazalla: No one questions that the Rabbitohs won the World Rugby championship...
BingoBoingo: It is just hard thought to explain how perfect Kaufman is as a baseball stadium
cazalla: rugby? it's league! that would be like me saying softball is the same as baseball
BingoBoingo: cazalla: I thought league was realest rugby???
cazalla: nfi, i have not watched/played since i was a kid
BingoBoingo: And Union was the deviant sport
nubbins`: ;;google why do they call it the world series if all the teams are American
gribble: Derek Jeter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Jeter>; World Series - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Series>; Boston Red Sox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Red_Sox>
decimation: well there are a few canadian teams
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Fuck you, Canada still has a team.
nubbins`: why do they call it the world wide web if it does not actually have width
nubbins`: BingoBoingo we used to have two!
decimation: nor is really a web
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Blame Obbumer stealing a team for DC
decimation: canada counts as a country sorta
BingoBoingo: ;;google nepal bitcoind doesn't sync
gribble: My bitcoin-qt client connection status and uptime at http://blockchain ...: <http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/7780/my-bitcoin-qt-client-connection-status-and-uptime-at-http-blockchain-info-conn>; Google Trends: <http://www.google.com/trends/explore>; Bitcoin Wallet - Android Apps on Google Play: (1 more message)
BingoBoingo actually would enjoy seeing Giancarlo Stanton playing Cricket
BingoBoingo: !up bitspill_
BingoBoingo: !up bitstein
kakobrekla: answer to someones question earlier http://bitcoinstatus.rowit.co.uk/versions.html
assbot: Bitcoin Peer to Peer Network Status
thickasthieves: so no one uses higher than 7?
kakobrekla: well i can see how mp would argue that one as yes
decimation: xbtfoundation.org is open
decimation: yeah xbt is gay but it can be used as a wedge
decimation: we are more official than you are!
thickasthieves: ISO certified domainz
BingoBoingo: Baseball is the best, because why in the hell is Billy Butler an athlete???
thickasthieves: i watched every single red sox game for a couple seasons when pedro was the shit, then never watched again
BingoBoingo: thickasthieves: All I ask for in life is to see Giancarlo Stanton with a better team. Any team oher than the Marlins will do.
thickasthieves: all i ask for is Bo Jackson comeback
BingoBoingo: SO old nao
BingoBoingo: Bo Jackson makes MP feel young
thickasthieves: i think i might be same age as mp
BingoBoingo: Oh, Royal are winning now.
BingoBoingo: That mean Lorde is happy.
thickasthieves: so she can die now
thickasthieves: happy, that is
BingoBoingo: This is actually the person Lorde wrote "Royals" about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PseNrUeSmXk
assbot: The George Brett Story - YouTube
BingoBoingo: Mr. Pooped his pants in a casino, George Brett.
thickasthieves: i had a lot of his baseball cards once
BingoBoingo: !u[ cardigm
thickasthieves: since he played with bo
BingoBoingo: I still do somewhere, maybe
nubbins`: kako so most people are using 0.3.x?!
nubbins`: c'est impossible
thickasthieves: i still have all my bo cards, my brother collected ken griffer
thickasthieves: griffey jr*
BingoBoingo: thickasthieves: Bo did have an especially dignified retirement
thickasthieves: he did better value wise, but now its all worth nothing pretty much
assbot: Snapshot of reachable nodes in the Bitcoin network - Bitnodes
kakobrekla: some other charts
kakobrekla: with more modern version numbers
thickasthieves: such css!
asciilifeform: the non-classical version strings are interesting
kakobrekla: 31. /BTCXchange.ro:0.9.99/ (1)
asciilifeform: and what, for instances, is 'caesure:2014' ?
asciilifeform: or 'midascoin' ?
thickasthieves: versioning should start at 1000 and end at 0
asciilifeform: !s kelvin versioning
assbot: samrushing/caesure GitHub
BingoBoingo: Versioning should be remove code Major++, add bullshit minor++ so M.m like 968.2
thickasthieves: so we agree to just not use versions
kakobrekla: that caesure seems to be around since 2011
thickasthieves: just timestamps
asciilifeform: byte counts.
asciilifeform: half-seriously,
asciilifeform: version == log2(bytecount).
asciilifeform: caesure << uses 'shrapnel', mega-libraryturd.
kakobrekla: nfi what that is
asciilifeform: never heard of it until now
asciilifeform: and, unsurprisingly, openssl
asciilifeform: so no win really.
kakobrekla: o hey hetzner hosts 180 nodes lol
BingoBoingo: WILD PITCH, runners on 2nd and 3rd
BingoBoingo: Bottom of the 6th, two outs
asciilifeform: and what is 'statoshi:0.9.99'...?
asciilifeform: or 'toxi'
BingoBoingo: RBI DOUBLE, 5-2, Kansas city over San Francisco atm. 3.1 innings left
asciilifeform: is there a chart of these sorted by hash/sec ?
asciilifeform: (yes i get that the number is '0' for most of the above list)
thickasthieves: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 382.02, Best ask: 382.47, Bid-ask spread: 0.45000, Last trade: 382.49, 24 hour volume: 8029.65324351, 24 hour low: 380.0, 24 hour high: 388.83, 24 hour vwap: 384.099411335
kakobrekla: o hey our resident child rapist also keeps charts
BingoBoingo: Home RUN, Royals now up 7-2 in the 6th, 3.1 innings left.
thickasthieves: getting ready to move, just not sure which way
thestringpuller: he's a child rapist now?
kakobrekla: 360 vuln nodes ? lol
BingoBoingo: Sorry, last two updates should read 3.2 innings left.
asciilifeform: uncommonly useless chart
thestringpuller: KC is bringing the pain.
kakobrekla: yeah well child rape is also useless, yet.
kakobrekla: those arent real time charts
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah that's the bottom line: what are the high-hash miners using?
assbot: Index of /programs/bitcoin/files/charts
asciilifeform: decimation: seems like a question that ought to be answerable, at least very approximately, without their cooperation
decimation: origin nodes of minted blocks?
asciilifeform: one can fudge the version string in the proggy, yes, but if you're on the network, folks can presumably connect to your node and test behaviours
kakobrekla: not sure if its enough to pinpoint version
asciilifeform: pinpoint - no. approximately tell if they're running hearn turd - yes.
kakobrekla: maybe
assbot: Breakout Gaming Fall Short In Attempt To Raise 10,000 BTC | Qntra.net
cazalla: this is just like when worm in rounders is asked how short he is and he responds "all the way"
asciilifeform: 10,000 btc << building a planet ?
BingoBoingo: I dunno about Yall, but I am watching Silicon Valley getting fucked with a frozen turd wrought of their own ethical lapses.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The San Francisco Giants getting fucked by a team with a fraction of their payroll.
Adlai: did my gif get through earlier? https://i.imgur.com/srO11QN.gif <-- this may be the moment when i finally realized the importance of natural selection
asciilifeform confesses that he doesn't see anything whatsoever that may happen in a gladiatorial arena as 'silicon valley fucked'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Not Handegg so not really that gladatorial
asciilifeform: arena in the sense of reasonably strong containment
asciilifeform: what happens in - generally, stays in
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I can report here on it so copyrasta containment not that strong yet
asciilifeform: stays in - in the sense that not once have i ever seen any reason to give a damn about it
BingoBoingo: Ah, that is a different dilema.
asciilifeform: other than scientific curiosity, re: what fascinates various folks so much
BingoBoingo: Baseball fascinates me in how it seems to be the intersection of dice games and atheleticism
BingoBoingo: That's why I find it betable
BingoBoingo: Also odd things happen in baseball over time. In 2010 people would call prank if you said Tim Lincecum warming up in the bullpen, but it is happening.
asciilifeform had to look up 'bullpen'
BingoBoingo: Ah, I guess for context... back in 2010 Lincecum was called the "Freak" for seeming unnaturaly better than any other starting pitcher, but since then... He has more than regressed to mean...
thestringpuller: Braves fans are like that with Craig Kimbrel
BingoBoingo: Mastery of Bullpen usage was how Larussa got the Cardinals two world series wins, but nao... Mathenaging...
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Kimbrel is probably Sirian.
asciilifeform: ^ unique among just about all subjects, this remains 'greek to me' regardless of what i read.
asciilifeform: brain just won't digest.
asciilifeform: i had the rules of, e.g., baseball, explained to me - on more than one occasion - and promptly forgot the next day.
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I'm that way with handegg and soccer
thestringpuller: Haha. BingoBoingo we should take asciilifeform to a baseball game.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'd suggest playing the part of a Nationals or Baltimore Orioles fan next year, but given the proximity to District 1, dunno how you feel about anal probing
thestringpuller: Get him nice and drunk while heckling the pictures.
decimation: I understand the general concept, but there are many subtle rules and concepts
asciilifeform: that's the catch really
asciilifeform: a great many cultural in-jokes and tidbits that seem obvious to a 'native' but utterly opaque to others.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: By refering to Kimbrel as Sirian I mean as in from the Wasp, bowlegged with inhuman movements. Only way to describe the fucker.
asciilifeform: this plus a chronic lack of my being able to muster giving a rat's arse
asciilifeform: yes i get that part - the only thing
asciilifeform: i meant, the game in general.
asciilifeform: and american football.
BingoBoingo: Ah, well most 'Murican don't really get Baseball anymore unless their spanish is good.
BingoBoingo: American football is simpler though. DOn't break your spine before you sign an NFL contract is basically all of handegg
asciilifeform: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XTS-400 << interesting. turns out greenhills is not the only crown-approved turdphactory
assbot: XTS-400 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
decimation: does it meet 'common criteria'
asciilifeform: apparently.
BingoBoingo: Of the two 'Murican sports, "Football"is probably the one with the simplest rules to grasp.
decimation: BingoBoingo: except for all the subtle rules about when/where tackling is legal
decimation: that turn out to be randomly enforced in practice
asciilifeform: aha green hills is still the only 'eas6' (highest usg rank) os.
BingoBoingo: decimation: Sure, handegg regular gameplay changes every year nao and Baseball hasn't had a real change since the mound was lowered because Bob Gibson
assbot: Certified Products : New CC Portal
decimation: eal4 is a joke
asciilifeform: (what does this mean? largely, claiming to enforce the american scheme of 'security classifications')
asciilifeform: and $maxint or so in lawyering
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah what it really means is that you sat through many gov't meetings
asciilifeform: and had the pedigree
asciilifeform: certified aryan!
decimation: and got a note from stalin, etc
decimation: I'm not sure how any c-machine can really be 'formally verified'
decimation: which is eal7
asciilifeform: decimation: the whole concept of 'formally verified' is a scam.
asciilifeform: in any and all cases.
decimation: As I understand, the 'common criteria' eal levels are going away, in favor of even less objective scam-criteria
asciilifeform: regardless of what kind of machine, and in what galaxy.
decimation: so it is easier for notes from stalin to be issued
asciilifeform: a physical machine is not a theorem.
decimation: for instance, if your logic was built with 74xx, how can you 'guarantee' fail-safe under all conditions?
decimation: you can't
asciilifeform: the notes will remain extremely easy for some, entirely impossible for others - to get.
decimation: who the hell knows what molten silicon will do
asciilifeform: just as intended.
decimation: yeah for instance if the chinese submitted an entry, no matter how open or impressive, it would never be adopted
asciilifeform: no need for the 74xx to melt - enough to 'get lucky' and reach a metastable state in one or more switching elements
asciilifeform: all bets are off then.
asciilifeform: one of the sad prices we paid when switched to digital computers is the inevitable forgetting that we are playing with physical machines, and not mathematical platonic forms.
BingoBoingo: decimation: Well, where does Vax still reign???
decimation: BingoBoingo: I'm sure there are still vaxes running somewhere
asciilifeform: chinese << forget chinese. nothing i - a peasant - so much as breathed on - will ever be crowned 'eal'.
BingoBoingo: decimation: They run the nuclear arsenal
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: theo de raadt has a microvax somewhere in his cellar
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: why, want one ?
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah a few $mil will be 'required' one way or another
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'll be looking to grow my farm once qntra takes off
BingoBoingo: First priorities include ECC x64 machine
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: afaik, the only remaining manufacturer of ecc-enabled amd (specifially) boards is 'tyan.'
BingoBoingo: Seems so, but I'll look a few years older and he same seems to hold
decimation: asciilifeform: I think supermicro makes them too
decimation: aside from that you are stuck with hp, dell, etc
asciilifeform: amd dell?
decimation: yeah dell made amd servers for awhile
assbot: PowerEdge R715 Rack Server Details | Dell
asciilifeform: http://conelrad.com/godfrey_2.html << entirely unrelated to anything. except perhaps the 'satoshi warning' feature of bitcoind.
assbot: CONELRAD: Atomic Culture | Updates on the Arthur Godfrey Ultimate PSA Search
xanthyos: danielpbarron is live right now on http://www.donkdown.com/live-radio/
assbot: DonkDown – Live Radio
decimation: 1960 usg might have been able to regroup and have some semblance of authority in case of major disaster. 2014 usg has no chance
thestringpuller: ^- is this why they make so many disaster movies about the USG going underground during a disaster and trying to reclaim power?
decimation: thestringpuller: yeah such movies are probably less fantastic than usg's hidden 'plans'
undata: 1) hide underground 2) send the military into the cities 3) burn
decimation: what military?
decimation: if washington dc goes under, for instance, there is no us military
undata: it disappears?
undata: see: 1991
decimation: it has no head, and the various pieces will find themselves suddenly having bigger priorities
undata: none of which will be keeping control of the continent?
decimation: who's control? I have no doubt that off-continent enemies will be taken seriously, but who's orders are they going to follow? Texas?
undata: the military would still have a chain of command absent civilian authority
undata: I don't think the head-body metaphor applies here
undata: more like giant slave and ankle-chain
decimation: 1.) "chain of command" orders military to 'crush' a city 2.) half the troops go awol, the other half are murdered by partisans 3.) "chain of command" no longer in command
undata: the US military is immensely capable of holding cities
undata: "partisans" have no chance
thestringpuller: decimation: is right tho
undata: you guys are a bit wishful sometimes; I share the sentiment towards the us govt
undata: but I highly doubt any of you are going to like what follows if it falls
thestringpuller: definitely but without a function chain of command the army is going to fragment into multiple "militias" in a serious disaster
undata: a highly armed, extremely disciplined military doesn't just vanish because the congressmen stop coming to work
decimation: I'm not interested in anarchy, but sometimes anarchy is interested in you...
undata: maybe in Rome
undata: things are much more organized now
thestringpuller: we like to think so, but who is really pulling the strings?
undata: I'll listen to the other view; go ahead
BingoBoingo: undata: It's almost like you've been following none of our hobby projects we joke about.
undata: look, if you're going to present it as a given that the most effectively oppressive military complex on earth is about to disappear, you're going to have to justify that.
decimation: undata: think of it from the point of view of the lowly private. You are at Fort Hood, and wash dc is gone. Your commander has told you that the 'chain of command' has ordered you to 'take Dallas'.
decimation: there's no air support, because comms are down. The 'locals' mostly think that the state should decide how things are run, not some ex-bureaucrats.
decimation: things get ugly. a few bombs go off. You are ordered out of your apc into the city.
decimation: your friend is shot in the head, he calls for help, but the locals have already taken over the airport, no helicopters anywhere
decimation: what you gonna do?
undata: I think American's are cowardly enough that Dallas won't have to be taken.
undata: *Americans
BingoBoingo: undata: I'm just suggesting datacenter that can't be disconnected from a safe distance...
undata: if things start falling apart, they're going to beg for the first strong voice they hear to save them.
undata: and I think the military industrial complex will provide that voice for them
undata: when the jackboot ends up on the corner he'll have been welcomed by >50%
BingoBoingo: undata: But what if the Sirians offer that strong voice first!
undata: BingoBoingo: who?
BingoBoingo: ;;google Wasp pdf
gribble: Yellowjackets and Paper Wasps Yellowjackets and Paper Wasps: <http://cru.cahe.wsu.edu/CEPublications/eb0643/eb0643.pdf>; Yellowjackets and Other Wasps - Washington State Department of ...: <http://www.ecy.wa.gov/pubs/97427.pdf>; Paper Wasps - West Virginia University: <http://www.wvu.edu/~exten/infores/pubs/pest/hpm7003.pdf>
thestringpuller: i have the pdf
BingoBoingo: ;;google wasp eric frank russell pdf
gribble: WASP - Lone Wolf (122 pages) - White Aryan Resistance: <http://www.resist.com/WASP.pdf>; Wasp (novel) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasp_(novel)>; One man against a whole planet: Eric Frank Russell's Wasp | Tor.com: <http://www.tor.com/blogs/2011/03/one-man-against-a-whole-planet-eric-frank-russells-wasp>
thestringpuller: you beat me to it
undata: I'll check it out.
undata: "White Aryan Resistance" really?
BingoBoingo: undata: Would you prefer I find the ISIS hosted version, they prolly have one...
undata: nah, I'm already on the list.
decimation: peterl hosted a text version
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