Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-09-28 | 2014-09-30 → ↓
decimation: no but it would be an interesting exercise in archaeology
asciilifeform: decimation: others have, if i recall, carried out this exercise. it isn't considerably more interesting than running the emulator.
decimation: yeah good point. I'm gonna work on getting my 'opengenera' vm working again
asciilifeform: decimation: opengenera vm << goes great with a set of these: http://imgur.com/nR6mErg
assbot: talmud - Imgur
asciilifeform: (ignore blue backbreaker, that's 'xerox')
asciilifeform: and yes, technically these are all hypertext-accessible (yes, possibly first instance of hypertext used industrially) in og. but paper is nice.
asciilifeform: i should like to find a buyer for these. before it's too late (and then i ask them to be brought to my peine forte et dure.)
decimation: asciilifeform: lol. Yeah when I saw demos of genera, I thought "wait, did they invent hypertext too"?
asciilifeform: hard to say who invented. but who used to greatest effect, earliest - yes, them.
decimation: it seems like it is a hell of alot better than the shit berners-lee put out
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: to you have a sister named deedee?
thestringpuller: did Diablo-D3 ever get around to making that 1mn dollar company that would be the end all to mining datacenters?
ben_vulpes: !up Diablo-D3
ben_vulpes: !up Diablo-D3
Diablo-D3: thestringpuller: no
Diablo-D3: I refunded investors and pulled out
thestringpuller: hehe that's what she said
thestringpuller: well i guess that's what he said?
Diablo-D3: heh.
Diablo-D3: but yeah, the whole DMC thing was hilarious
Diablo-D3: people keep calling me scam over it
Diablo-D3: yet it paid out more than was originally invested
ben_vulpes: ;;gettrust Diablo-D3
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user Diablo-D3: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ben_vulpes&dest=Diablo-D3 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Diablo-D3 | Rated since: Mon Apr 25 13:54:20 2011
ben_vulpes: this is true?
dub: sure, just not to the people who bought at IPO
Diablo-D3: dub: actually a lot of them stuck until the end and got their money back
ben_vulpes: lol @ Luke-Jr's rating
Diablo-D3: the only people who "lost" were those who idiotically paniced
ben_vulpes: -1 "i dunno"
Diablo-D3: ben_vulpes: yeah, luke-jr is a scam
dub: I doubt that but it should have been a whorthwhile lesson
Diablo-D3: ben_vulpes: its why I dont care about wot, its not policed
dub: whorethwhile?
ben_vulpes: it's adequately policed
dub: anyway, you can't put a price on education, Diablo-D3 is no scammer
Diablo-D3: dub: yes, whorethwhile
ben_vulpes: i know danielpbarron vaguely, i know Luke-Jr vaguely, i know how to weight their ratings
ben_vulpes: dag - you have a 5 from nanotube?
Luke-Jr: Diablo-D3: no, you're a troll
dub: a surprising retort
Diablo-D3: Luke-Jr: yes, Im a troll that wrote a very important piece of software that a lot of people donated a lot of money to help make happen
Diablo-D3: Luke-Jr: now only if you could do that.
ben_vulpes: aaaaah dig nanotube's rating of magicaltux
Luke-Jr: Diablo-D3: lol, so important that nobody uses it
Diablo-D3: not anymore they dont
Diablo-D3: mining at home is dead
Diablo-D3: no profit in it, even if you own asics
dub: they all use the software you plagiarised now Luke-Jr
Luke-Jr: dub: you mean "maintain"
Luke-Jr: dub: I have always given full credit to all authors and contributors of BFGMiner
thestringpuller: nanotube needs to update his ratings
Diablo-D3: lol "maintain"
Diablo-D3: cgminer = C port of diablominer
dub: thestringpuller: this is actually why the wot is broken
Luke-Jr: Diablo-D3: you wish
Luke-Jr: dub: it's not broken, it works well
thestringpuller: nanotube is also a ghost
Diablo-D3: bfgminer = cgminer fork that luke-jr did because ck wouldnt merge his shit patches
Diablo-D3: ergo
ben_vulpes: ;;gettrust assbot Luke-Jr
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Luke-Jr!~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr. Trust relationship from user assbot to user Luke-Jr: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 3 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=Luke-Jr | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Luke-Jr | Rated since: Sat Feb 5 12:37:04 2011
Luke-Jr: BFGMiner = cgminer-the-GPU-miner + FPGA and ASIC support
ben_vulpes: ;;gettrust assbot Diablo-D3
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user Diablo-D3: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=Diablo-D3 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Diablo-D3 | Rated since: Mon Apr 25 13:54:20 2011
Diablo-D3: Luke-Jr: except ck added fpga and asic support himself
Luke-Jr: cgminer = BFGMiner fork because ck wanted free hardware for doing nothing
ben_vulpes: ;;seen joecool
gribble: joecool was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 14 weeks, 0 days, 0 hours, 46 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: <joecool> do you really have to ask
Luke-Jr: Diablo-D3: liar
Diablo-D3: free hardware fo rdoing nothing? nope
Diablo-D3: he wanted the hardware on hand to actually test changes
Diablo-D3: and guess what? he got the hardware in the end.
Diablo-D3: Luke-Jr: you forget, I actually know ck, you dont
Luke-Jr: Diablo-D3: guess what? he successfully trolled. doesn't make it any less of a troll.
Diablo-D3: lol Luke-Jr is so goddamned butthurt
Luke-Jr: anyone who knows ck knows he's a pain
ben_vulpes: so what if troll? so what if pain?
Luke-Jr: ck has a very large reputation for being a difficult person to work with
ben_vulpes: surely the commit history shows ck's contribution or lack thereof.
Luke-Jr: ben_vulpes: yep
Diablo-D3: oh bullshit
Diablo-D3: ck just doesnt take shit from people
Diablo-D3: if he was hard to work with, I wouldnt have been friends with him for the last decade
Luke-Jr: Diablo-D3: that's why he hasn't had kernel patches accepted since forever, eh
Diablo-D3: Luke-Jr: he hasnt?
Luke-Jr: concepts, yes, but only after someone else has to go basically rewrite them
Luke-Jr: Diablo-D3: nope, even I have more recent Linux commits
Diablo-D3: Luke-Jr: -ck is out for 3.16 or whatever the newest kernel is
Luke-Jr: -ck is not Linux itself
Luke-Jr: it's a fork
Luke-Jr: like cgminer
Diablo-D3: its not a fork you idiot
Diablo-D3: its a patchset.
Luke-Jr: that's another word for fork
Diablo-D3: its bfs plus a few other patches
Diablo-D3: Luke-Jr: no, it requires the linux source
Diablo-D3: you have to apply the patch
Luke-Jr: irrelevant
Luke-Jr: that's just a technical way of distributing code
Diablo-D3: can someone ban Luke-Jr?
Diablo-D3: the signal to noise ratio in this channel went to shit when he came in
ben_vulpes: needs one more negrate
Luke-Jr: all a git repo is, is a patch set
ben_vulpes: its a fascinating slapfight i gotta say
Diablo-D3: ben_vulpes: not much of a slapfight when I have written code, and so has ck, and Luke-Jr hasnt actually done anything.
ben_vulpes: eh, link me
Luke-Jr: Diablo-D3: you're simply a liar, nothing more
Luke-Jr: if anyone should be banned, it's you
Diablo-D3: Luke-Jr: I have seen your "code"
Diablo-D3: it is lol.
Diablo-D3: theres a reason why ck denied some of your patches
Luke-Jr: Diablo-D3: you are lol
ben_vulpes: until i see commits (ideally signed, but i don't think people were into that sort of thing back then) it's all hot air as far as i can tell
ben_vulpes: hola nanotube
nanotube haunts thestringpuller ooooOOOOO
Diablo-D3: ben_vulpes: diablominer is on github
Diablo-D3: hey nanotube
Luke-Jr: ben_vulpes: signing commits is considered bad practice, actually
nanotube: howdy folks :)
ben_vulpes: Luke-Jr: oh and do explain why
assbot: luke-jr/bfgminer GitHub
ben_vulpes: Luke-Jr: lol i ain't digging through y'all's shitpile
ben_vulpes: link me to introducing commits tho and i'll start to care
xanthyos: someone i know on tinychat is trying to dump btc to me at spot. i hope i don't come out looking like a fool. that's more of a worry than the money loss at this point: appearing like a fool in the short term to a bunch of druggies and cam whores
xanthyos: i can't NOT buy though
ben_vulpes: yeah you can
ben_vulpes: just don't
nanotube: xanthyos: why not ask for a discount to spot
ben_vulpes: 20% is what - 80 bucks per right now?
xanthyos: i'll definitely round it in my favor
thestringpuller: oh wow nanotube speaks!
thestringpuller: you still feel the same about MagicalTux? ;)
Luke-Jr: ben_vulpes: I can't find it now, but the Linux kernel used to have a writeup why commits shouldn't be PGP signed
mircea_popescu: <thestringpuller> did Diablo-D3 ever get around to making that 1mn dollar company << 1 mn BITCOIN. get it straight.,
Luke-Jr: ben_vulpes: IIRC it was related to signing implying you have audited the complete state of the code, not just the diff
ben_vulpes: well that's a load of malarkey.
ben_vulpes: the other arguments i've heard is a) weakens "importance" of signatures and b) leaks keys
ben_vulpes: a) lol
Luke-Jr: probably also because git maintainers like to rebase commits regularly
ben_vulpes: b) don't sign too often.
ben_vulpes: well then the sig goes bad and tough luck.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i don't know my history very well even though i lived it
thestringpuller: ewww rebase commits
thestringpuller: good way to lose your history
Luke-Jr: ben_vulpes: also, the sig can't prove who wrote the code anyway
Luke-Jr: ben_vulpes: it would be trivial for Con to take my commits and reauthor them with his own signature, for example
Luke-Jr: (although I doubt he'd go that far)
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: nano just updated a few ratings
Luke-Jr: thestringpuller: yeah, I'm not a big fan of rebasing, but that's how the git culture works :/
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> aaaaah dig nanotube's rating of magicaltux << i don't think he ever revisits them or anytrhing
ben_vulpes: wouldn't really pass an inspection tbh
Luke-Jr: nanotube: wow, your new rating for Mark is harsh! :o
mircea_popescu: <dub> thestringpuller: this is actually why the wot is broken << nah. if you know who people are you know what to discount. if you don't know, you can't use their ratings anyway.
BingoBoingo: nanotube ratings watch http://dpaste.com/05T9JSY
assbot: dpaste: 05T9JSY
Luke-Jr: nanotube: the news last I checked said the police don't buy the conspiracy theories
ben_vulpes: police? what is this.
Luke-Jr: ben_vulpes: you know, the people investigating the MtGox incident
mircea_popescu: well this banstuff has been an amusing read.
Luke-Jr: who actually have access to information
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20631 @ 0.00074823 = 15.4367 BTC [-] {3}
Luke-Jr: unlike me or most people
ben_vulpes: yes, the entirely honest and upright japanese police.
mircea_popescu: Luke-Jr you read some conspiracy theories about what the police is buying ?
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: conspiracy theories being people saying Mark did it, with no evidence
mircea_popescu: <Luke-Jr> ben_vulpes: signing commits is considered bad practice, actually << by idiots.
Luke-Jr: police don't seem to believe that, and they have actual access to information
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: the Linux maintainers are idiots?
mircea_popescu: xanthyos> appearing like a fool in the short term to a bunch of druggies and cam whores << maybe you need a new reddit ?
Luke-Jr: lol
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr> police don't seem to believe that, and they have actual access to information << How long did the Feds take on BFL?
ben_vulpes: <Luke-Jr> mircea_popescu: the Linux maintainers are idiots? << a large number of them. do we not hear of linus routinely reaming people for idiocy?
Luke-Jr: BingoBoingo: wat?
Luke-Jr: ben_vulpes: that's a point. XD
mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 379.9, Best ask: 379.99, Bid-ask spread: 0.09000, Last trade: 379.99, 24 hour volume: 18630.84954422, 24 hour low: 368.9, 24 hour high: 401.41, 24 hour vwap: 382.91805711
assbot: Logged on 29-09-2014 04:59:01; Luke-Jr: ben_vulpes: signing commits is considered bad practice, actually
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of -1 for user luke-jr has been recorded.
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: Well, BFL has only very recently been shutdown and taken into recievership for merely doing what they've been doing for their entire run.
ben_vulpes: !down Luke-Jr
nanotube: Luke-Jr: not implying culpability, simply that i wouldn't trade with him given all the stuff hanging over his head
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> Luke-Jr> police don't seem to believe that, and they have actual access to information << How long did the Feds take on BFL? << the notion that "the police" has "the information" is such lmao.
Luke-Jr: ben_vulpes: what I said is true, even if you disagree with it
ben_vulpes: well, you've got fifteen minutes, Luke-Jr. make the best of 'em.
mircea_popescu: they've got what they finally managed to read on trilema, basically.
Luke-Jr: BingoBoingo: did the feds at some point say BFL was legit?
Luke-Jr: nanotube: ah, makes sense
mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust assbot Luke-Jr
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Luke-Jr!~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr. Trust relationship from user assbot to user Luke-Jr: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 4 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=Luke-Jr | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Luke-Jr | Rated since: Sat Feb 5 12:37:04 2011
mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust assbot Diablo-D3
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user Diablo-D3: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=Diablo-D3 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Diablo-D3 | Rated since: Mon Apr 25 13:54:20 2011
ben_vulpes: Luke-Jr: your assertion of such doth not proof make.
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: Never, one judge commented that there wasn't enough in front of him at the time to revoke Sonny's parole, far from an endorsement
Luke-Jr: nanotube: btw, any idea why b-otc.com is broken?
Luke-Jr: BingoBoingo: my point exactly
Luke-Jr: BingoBoingo: Japanese police have stated they don't think Mark is involved in the crime
ben_vulpes: he was still at the helm.
mircea_popescu: no they didn't lol.
nanotube: Luke-Jr: seems to work for me, just checked.
Luke-Jr: ben_vulpes: yes, he screwed up big time
ben_vulpes: it happened on his watch.
Luke-Jr: nanotube: weird :/
mircea_popescu: what the fuck dorkhead do you have to be to believe sssomething like that. "o the police said this guy isn't involved". how'd they know and why'd they say that.
ben_vulpes: !up Diablo-D3
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: they're investigating the theft
Luke-Jr: and have access to information we don't
mircea_popescu: no, they don't.
Luke-Jr: nanotube: try over IPv6?
BingoBoingo: No reason police aren't for sale like anyone else.
mircea_popescu: but that aside : that's the definition of "investigating" : they dion;t know who did what
mircea_popescu: and who's not involved.
mircea_popescu: just because the idiots you normally shill at can't read japanese doesn't mean you actually get to propose nonsense in here as fact.
Luke-Jr: I don't shill.
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: too bad, I don't save every news article I read.
mircea_popescu: because "news articles" are a source now.
ben_vulpes: Luke-Jr: amusingly, you can't even find them when the time comes.
ben_vulpes: not that any of them are written by a key i know anyways.
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: "news articles" was the topic
Dimsler: Luke-Jr, wtf are you talking about
mircea_popescu: but the very notion that "the police"'d have some sort of priviledged access to information...
mircea_popescu: holy shit, that takes the cake.
Luke-Jr: Dimsler: ?
Dimsler: i know
nanotube: mircea_popescu: they /should/ have the entire gox database, unlike the general public.
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: they do
mircea_popescu: nanotube you mean that thing that was stolen off their servers 5x ?
mircea_popescu: yeah, im sure they do o.o
Dimsler: mircea_popescu, maybe they have access to the "secret" server
mircea_popescu: yeah, right.
mircea_popescu: maybe they have access to their own behinds.
Luke-Jr: mircea_popescu: it's pretty obvious MagicalTux isn't allowed to publicly say a lot of stuff
mircea_popescu: seems unlikely, giving what we know of public servants, but why not hoep.
Luke-Jr: that stuff, the police have access to
nanotube: mircea_popescu: sure, except it wasn't the entire thing? it was a particular date range, plus as i recall not all transactions?
mircea_popescu: yeah because co-conspirator testimony is like the be all end all of truthsources.
mircea_popescu: nanotube now how would one know this ?
nanotube: i distinctly recall it didn't have some of my earliest transactions :P
mircea_popescu: which one of the leaked versions of which particular breach ?
nanotube: also, were there usd input/outputs? or just btc?
nanotube: haha i don't even know :P
mircea_popescu: let's talk of something else, this can't not end up retarded.
nanotube: hehe me too! sleep time :)
Luke-Jr goes back to code
mircea_popescu: don't forget to sign it.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, it occurs to me, the ba deeds registrar thing will be a not-so-bad way to distribute source.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which,
mircea_popescu: ;;seen molokodesk
gribble: molokodesk was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 day, 13 hours, 43 minutes, and 51 seconds ago: <MolokoDesk> yeah, there's a pending item stuck in the queue because it missed (probably) it's block.
RagnarDanneskjol: hes working on it hastily
ben_vulpes: that's a poor way to work on things
mircea_popescu: guy had a month, ended up cramming most of it after the 20th or something ?
ben_vulpes: let's see if this works yet
mircea_popescu: gotta work hygienically yo!
ben_vulpes: !down Luke-Jr
mircea_popescu: !down ben_vulpes
mircea_popescu: oddly, you're reg'd
ben_vulpes: ;;gettrust assbot ben_vulpes
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask ben_vulpes!~user@unaffiliated/benkay. Trust relationship from user assbot to user ben_vulpes: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 12 via 12 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=ben_vulpes | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=ben_vulpes | Rated since: Sun Mar 10 13:57:45 2013
ben_vulpes: odd how?
mircea_popescu: well if you're reg'd why doesn't the down take
ben_vulpes: kakobrekla ?
ben_vulpes: caching somewhere.
[]bot: Bet created: "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) Feb 2015 to drop under $80 before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1052/
ben_vulpes: (just a guess)
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Light Sweet Crude Oil (WTI) Feb 2015 to drop under $80 before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1052/ Odds: 100(Y):0(N) by coin, 100(Y):0(N) by weight. Total bet: 1 BTC. Current weight: 99,996.
ben_vulpes: for the record, signing not your own commits is anathema and will eventually be outed.
ben_vulpes: a signed tag is a different thing.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes eh ?
RagnarDanneskjol: explain signed tag pls
mircea_popescu: why, if you've read it ?
ben_vulpes: RagnarDanneskjol: you're familiar with tagging in git?
RagnarDanneskjol: why bettr or different
asciilifeform: why commits shouldn't be PGP signed... leaks keys << sorta like the idea that one shouldn't blow nose - leaks brains. yes, given some misconfigurations of the body - this can actually happen.
ben_vulpes: a commit is "i did this code"
mircea_popescu: splendid analogy
ben_vulpes: a tag is "this release bears my stamp"
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes can i commit code my slavegirl wrote on her offline abacus ?
ben_vulpes: tux might nota been a party to the crime, but it happened under his watch.
ben_vulpes: you can do anything you want
ben_vulpes: how your wot handles it is unresolved
mircea_popescu: so then if i sign a commit you made, what's the problem ?
ben_vulpes: why not encrypt messages to bitcoin private keys? it works, what's the problem?
mircea_popescu: can you stick to arguing your idea instead of arguing around ?
ben_vulpes: i'll try.
ben_vulpes: the commit is "here is a diff of thing before i started work today, and thing after i finished this feature." it may include tests, changes to other miscellaneous stuff. it should exist (in my opinion, i may be wrong and might need to be argued out of this) as a statement that "i did this work". this clearly gets hazy when you've got multiple eyes on a screen.
ben_vulpes: and multiple people providing input into what precisely should be done. however, the buck must stop with the signer of the commit.
thestringpuller: diff of commit hash in blockchain?
ben_vulpes: also i don't really know that git affords for you signing my hash and including it in the repository, from a technical perspective.
ben_vulpes: er, commit.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes but see, if what you mean to say is "signing actual commits may be taking on more responsibility than you realise", why say "anathema" ?
mircea_popescu: as far as i can see, all signatories of a thing are joint and several responsible for it.
ben_vulpes: that's why the signatory of the commit can only be held responsible for changes introduced in that commit.
mircea_popescu: if that's what you're trying to do, it's not anathema, it's the right thing. if it's not what you're trying to do it's still not anathema, just, you're misguidedly using the tools
ben_vulpes: sure, i made a change to openssl, and i stand behind it. that should not be taken to be an endorsement of the project.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes basically the practica application would be, once X bug is found, grep for the code and whenever you find it in something someone signed, tear them a new one.
ben_vulpes: what would it mean for it to be in something that someone signed?
ben_vulpes: that's the importance of signing the diff.
mircea_popescu: well up to the signer what he signs.
ben_vulpes: that's why the commit is the right thing for a contributor to sign.
ben_vulpes: "i changed these things, and i take responsibility for the content of the change."
ben_vulpes: now if you strip whitespace on a line that later turns out to have a mission-critical hole...
mircea_popescu: sure, if that's what he means that's what he should do.
mircea_popescu: fuck you, don't dick around with lines you don't udnerstand.
mircea_popescu: "all i did was the space guise" psshhhh
ben_vulpes: d'accord.
mircea_popescu: the entire point of the exercise is to make people fucking affraid to write code.
ben_vulpes: now in the tag, you include a message: "this signed tag is my stamp upon the whole and entirety of the codebase".
mircea_popescu: that' the only way they'll stop long enough to read something.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes that's nonsense. what's this, a badly specified bitbet bet ?
ben_vulpes: or, "this signed tag is my stamp on lines xx-yy in file thus.hs"
mircea_popescu: no dude, you include what you sign between --begin and end
ben_vulpes: i'm demonstrating the range of what's possible, not what i'd do.
mircea_popescu: no signature-by-reference. now THAT'
mircea_popescu: s anathema.
ben_vulpes: and you probably want to hash the lines and sign the hash to boot.
assbot: Logged on 13-08-2014 20:08:25; asciilifeform: one calls out recipe steps; one actually tightens the bolt, whatever; one - verifies. then they all sign.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: right.
ben_vulpes: what is anathema in the previous context mircea_popescu is taking someone else's commits, signing them and claiming them as your own.
ben_vulpes: if i find commits like that without a "copied without permission from XXX" -- that's a demerit.
asciilifeform: (example not necessarily applicable to given domain, but specifically of folks taking actual responsibility for their actions)
asciilifeform: as for this entire thread - being pessimist, imho any software project which appears to call for this level of organizational complexity - is a lost cause.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: you could only make people terrified in this system if everyone was required to sign commits no?
asciilifeform: and yes, that means, e.g., linux kernel.
asciilifeform back to sleep
ben_vulpes: in 20 years, a bitcoin implementation may be software people's "masterpiece" work - eg the piece of work that grants one the title of "master" in the field.
ben_vulpes: if i see this day i will be a happy man.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5390 @ 0.00075234 = 4.0551 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: isn't linux kind of that to operating systems?
thestringpuller: ^ ben_vulpes
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> what is anathema in the previous context mircea_popescu is taking someone else's commits, signing them and claiming them as your own. << why ?
mircea_popescu: there's no permission to be had or sought. this is free software.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller no. girls aren't required to fuck anyone and yet they're well terrified of not doing a good job in bed.
Dimsler: what about rape
mircea_popescu: what abou it ?
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: what if someone doesn't sign "heartbleed introduction" then no one is accountable and system is moot
mircea_popescu: don't use it if you don't like how it's signed.
thestringpuller: but this means software that is signed everywhere has more accountability than software that doesn't
mircea_popescu: ;;isitdown bitbet.us
gribble: bitbet.us is up
mircea_popescu: da fuck.
thestringpuller: up for me?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16900 @ 0.00074955 = 12.6674 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14600 @ 0.00074928 = 10.9395 BTC [-]
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Bitcoin to drop under $350 before November" http://bitbet.us/bet/1034/ Odds: 44(Y):56(N) by coin, 40(Y):60(N) by weight. Total bet: 42.66946193 BTC. Current weight: 28,540.
RagnarDanneskjol: are there any time-bending' methods for proving a doc [notarized electronically*] is not added[forged] to db AFTER some point in time? like a 'carbondated' irrefutable binary marker [or tensor more like]. for instance, unique single use keypair for each new calendar day thats signed by [or a hash of] some other newly generated 'time-dependent' keypair + 'something else'[ie classified new
RagnarDanneskjol: sapr ad but more easily recoverable]. we'll presume the date record of keys published is unreliable/unavail/innacurate [including classifieds which could fall into all 3 categories] and placing aside the single use pair being vulnerable to forger obtaining historical key pairs in advance.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16650 @ 0.00074918 = 12.4738 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol well how are you going to put the hash in a block retroactively ?
mircea_popescu: but anyway, this discussion can continue tomorrow, i'm off.
RagnarDanneskjol: assuming it is compromised (not thinking about btc here at all)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60800 @ 0.00074779 = 45.4656 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17608 @ 0.00074698 = 13.1528 BTC [-] {2}
RagnarDanneskjol: re carbondating notary - some concepts here for consideration [PMCP, reducing model checking many to few, etc] http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~kahlon/papers/many-to-few.pdf
assbot: Einstein notation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1600 @ 0.00074946 = 1.1991 BTC [+] {2}
fluffypony: bonjour davout
fluffypony: Ça va?
davout: bien le bonjour
davout: oui et toi-même ?
fluffypony: ça va comme ci, comme ça :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16700 @ 0.00074757 = 12.4844 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25267 @ 0.00075274 = 19.0195 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00075076 = 7.3574 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16439 @ 0.00075103 = 12.3462 BTC [+] {2}
kakobrekla: ben_vulpes nah, i just fucked around with the db while moving ass.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28807 @ 0.0007505 = 21.6197 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24500 @ 0.00075283 = 18.4443 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17050 @ 0.00075043 = 12.7948 BTC [-]
mats_cd03: 03:06:03 decimation:before this one I actually had a nexus 4 (2013 model) for a month, dropped it from 18 inches and it cracked <<there's a 2013 model? whats the difference with 2012?
assbot: Logged on 29-09-2014 03:06:03; decimation: before this one I actually had a nexus 4 (2013 model) for a month, dropped it from 18 inches and it cracked
assbot: Logged on 27-09-2014 19:41:17; kakobrekla: (first day i had it, it flew about 3m vertically on a concrete floor)
thestringpuller: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 381.0, Best ask: 381.93, Bid-ask spread: 0.93000, Last trade: 381.01, 24 hour volume: 22154.10823573, 24 hour low: 365.2, 24 hour high: 393.51, 24 hour vwap: 379.630123584
ThickAsThieves: !s thickasthieves 360s
ThickAsThieves: !s thickasthieves 360s
ThickAsThieves: !s thickasthieves 360
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25200 @ 0.00075043 = 18.9108 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: "Specifically, the testimony of several former employees and Vice President of Product Development Josh Zerlan shows that instead of fulfilling orders immediately, Defendants used their customers’ machines to mine Bitcoins for themselves before shipping the now-used machines to their customers."
ThickAsThieves: "The machines being tested were collectively hashing at a rate of 12 terrahashes per second (TH/s). At that time, this comprised approximately 3 percent of the hash rate of the entire bitcoin network."
assbot: Feds: Butterfly Labs mined bitcoins on customers boxes before shipping | Ars Technica
los_pantalones: then tried to sell them OTC using bitpay as broker
ThickAsThieves: Circle is open for business, that should halve Coinbase's lifespan
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28750 @ 0.00074726 = 21.4837 BTC [-] {3}
ben_vulpes: their hamburger menu illustration is hilarious
ben_vulpes: animation
ThickAsThieves: "Create a password" "minimum 6 characters"
ThickAsThieves: lol Intuit just responded to a 2yr-old service request from a developer that used to work for me
ThickAsThieves: "Hi, I'm interested in developing integration apps with Quickbooks online. May I sign up for a one year developer account?" too late Intuit
ben_vulpes: why does everything suck, ThickAsThieves
ben_vulpes: one guy says to hire a whole payroll company
ben_vulpes: another guy says to just use quickbooks payroll
ben_vulpes: i don't know wtf to do
ben_vulpes: BUSINESS IS LIFE UNDER UNCERTAINTY
TomServo: Am I seeing this right? Lenovo is paying less for IBMs server division than M$ paid for Mojang?
TomServo: Is this bizarro world?
mats_cd03: minecraft is a big deal and i think that's often understated in this channel
chetty hasn't noticed anyone even talking about minecraft here ..
mats_cd03: !s mojang
chetty: ben_vulpes, if you have employees where you have to do withholding and stuff, hire an outfit, cheaper in the long run
ThickAsThieves: <+ben_vulpes> one guy says to hire a whole payroll company /// in my experience doing your own payroll via QBO is better than paying ADP or such, but only if your staff knows some amount of accounting and tax filing
ThickAsThieves: it does make it easy, but at the risk of not knowing wtf to do if you have a problem and no accounting support
chetty: all the assorted tax filings and stuff are real time eaters
ThickAsThieves: and QBO doesnt make it clear when/what you need to mail yourself, vs submit online
ThickAsThieves: i learned by doing and it took a couple years to clean up the mess
ben_vulpes: > couple years
ben_vulpes: thanks chetty, ThickAsThieves
chetty: been a few years since I did that sort of stuff but back then giving up and hiring a company was best move I made
ThickAsThieves: being a loner is where it's at
assbot: Fans raise cash to help phone phreaker John Draper, aka Capn Crunch | Ars Technica
assbot: My coworkers made me use Mac OS 9 for their (and your) amusement | Ars Technica
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48300 @ 0.00074597 = 36.0304 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8950 @ 0.00074764 = 6.6914 BTC [+]
assbot: Hong Kong Protests Swell as Riot Police Withdraw - WSJ
mircea_popescu: ;;rated PeterL
gribble: You have not yet rated user PeterL
mircea_popescu: ;;rate PeterL 1 Guy fucked up his glbse assets 3 years ago. This is a fact. That fact may be explained as a smart guy failing in a soup of idiots, and the optimist in me is inclined towards it.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user PeterL has been recorded.
mircea_popescu: !up justusranvier
justusranvier: morning
mircea_popescu: how goes ?
assbot: Govt works on criminal law reform to fight blue dollar - BuenosAiresHerald.com
ThickAsThieves: lol now Intuit gave the 1yr dev subscription...
mircea_popescu: justusranvier what am i lookin' at ?
mircea_popescu: Michael Goldstein presentats a tutorial on GPG contracts and the #bitcoin-otc web of trust. < that ?
justusranvier: We started syndicating our weekly bitcoin meetups.
justusranvier: So now they'll be put on YouTube
justusranvier: Instead of just teaching classes to the people who show up in person it spreads the reach a bit
justusranvier: He'll be talking about your GPG Contracts article.
mircea_popescu: aite, how can i help ?
justusranvier: Maybe one of these days you could get on a Hangout with us for a Q&A.
mircea_popescu: what's a hangout ?
assbot: SECRET//COMINT//REL TO USA, AUS, CAN, GBR//20291123 United States SIGINT System - Pastebin.com
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform lol i saw that.
justusranvier: mircea_popescu: Google's answer to Skype. Useful in that you can stream/record to YouTube
mircea_popescu: why must the format be bulky and impossible ? can't we do this ?
assbot: Austin Bitcoin Meetup Guest Speaker Series - YouTube
mircea_popescu: do this : hire a chick wherever your studio is located. i'll pay for her tiome, give her an xchat terminal and she can read my replies.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15300 @ 0.0007459 = 11.4123 BTC [-] {2}
justusranvier: mircea_popescu: Could work
mircea_popescu: !up moldysnizz
moldysnizz: Well howdy!
mircea_popescu: how goes
moldysnizz: It's pretty good so far. Slept in. No one around but a couple of dogs. Still breathing... Good shit right here.
moldysnizz: And I only fucked up my ;;bcverify once!
moldysnizz: I've been trying to wrap my head around rand().
moldysnizz: Computers making randome numbers? I don't think so.
kakobrekla: ;;gettrust moldysnizz
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask moldysnizz!~moldysniz@unaffiliated/moldysnizz. Trust relationship from user kakobrekla to user moldysnizz: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=kakobrekla&dest=moldysnizz | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=moldysnizz | Rated since: never
moldysnizz: I was formarly chatquack, but the computer with the creds is in storage.
jurov: govt storage?
moldysnizz: Parents garage. ;)
kakobrekla: moldysnizz you prolly need to read everything ascii ever said.
moldysnizz: In reguards to rand()?
kakobrekla: correct
moldysnizz: regards**
moldysnizz: *goes to the site*
kakobrekla: one star is enough
kakobrekla: now fix it with "regards***"
assbot: Madonna - Lucky Star - YouTube
moldysnizz: regards! heh.
jurov: dunno, large part of that material is scattered around trilema
kakobrekla: !s from:asciilifeform
assbot: 26135 results for 'from:asciilifeform' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from%3Aasciilifeform
jurov: related to cardano rng
kakobrekla: moldysnizz ^^
mircea_popescu: !s "state of sin"
TheNewDeal: Randomly scattered around trilema?
kakobrekla: not so randomly!
kakobrekla: quasi randomly perhaps
jurov: where did i wrote randomly?
mircea_popescu: there is method to this random!
kakobrekla: where did i wrote you wrote?
jurov: not you, TheNewDeal
mircea_popescu: jurov looks like your buffer got injected :D
jurov: kako's too
kakobrekla: we better sign irc lines
asciilifeform just saw, through window, an ornate 'sheriff' car, stopped. woman in police uniform emerges, tries to serve some kind of legal notice printed on large stiff paper to neighbour - who isn't home. she gets back in, drives off.
TheNewDeal: It was mostly a joke, on the topic of rand() ya know
kakobrekla: dud idk random jokes are so rand()
moldysnizz: wakka wakka
TheNewDeal: Ikr lol
jurov: dat my mind. just produced a thought "what if we measure trilema entropy? and what if it ends up being over-unity?"
bounce: txtspk, bringing humanity into easy AI territory from the other end
TheNewDeal: Makes me remember the markov chain trilema
mircea_popescu: jurov no wai
mircea_popescu: THESE INSULTS!!!1
jurov: ...
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2014 17:19:21; asciilifeform: incidentally, my first exposure to the problem of RNGs with inadequate entropy was by accident, at uni
mircea_popescu: trilema entropy is 0
mircea_popescu: you just gotta know how to read it
mircea_popescu: unfortunately, it is a skill i seem to have mysplaced myself ;/
bounce: s/spl/sp/
jurov: trilema entropy is 0 << means 1 bit of trilema text contains 0 bits of information?
mircea_popescu: no, by way of 1 bit of trilema contsaining 1 bit of information and so no room for this entropy cheez
asciilifeform: 'time was flowing at a constant rate of one second per second!'
kakobrekla: isnt that a bit fast
bounce: "security by lack of entropy" -- my, wouldn't that be useful
mircea_popescu: ;;google time is going by really slow i think we might be dead
gribble: I think we're dead - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvct5fgEH_U>; Police Officer steals Marijuana. - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnZb5wi_jsU>; What 3 things did you learn while you were in a near-death - TED.com: <http://www.ted.com/conversations/2306/what_3_things_did_you_learn_wh.html>
mircea_popescu: bounce it's basically asciilifeform's plan for computing.
asciilifeform: !s stone sword
kakobrekla: !s hammer phone
mircea_popescu: !s biggus dickus
mircea_popescu: fixed now.
moldysnizz: He has a wife you know
assbot: Unsorted collection of various Cardano related updates + spurious pics pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: moldysnizz yeah!
jurov: !up moldysnizz
jurov: !up moldysnizz
moldysnizz: mircea_popescu, did you ever get a decent prototype of that RNG device working?
moldysnizz: thanks jurov!
moldysnizz: ooo fun!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10700 @ 0.00074764 = 7.9997 BTC [+]
moldysnizz: Is this like a Arduino?
kakobrekla: exactly like except completely opposite.
asciilifeform not sure how item in question could have been confused for 'arduino' - other than in both being small electrical gizmos
kakobrekla: both pcbs are blue
asciilifeform: yes indeed - apparently an 'arduino' - blue.
mircea_popescu: moldysnizz a prototype, yes.
asciilifeform never had one, didn't know
kakobrekla has a few
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: they're 'atmel'-something-or-others with a bunch of convenient plugs, yeah?
moldysnizz: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1427 ahh I didn't relize it was it's own thing. Looks fun!
assbot: Loper OS » Cardano Prototype Tidbits: TRNG Boards.
bounce: clearly, for production you must come up with an unique colour
kakobrekla: asciilifeform basically yea. you also have the arm editions in same package.
asciilifeform: moldysnizz: this particular item (trng) is a very simple but safety-critical (hence amount of effort spent on it) component of a larger apparatus.
moldysnizz: Right? Any decent crypto needs decent rng.
moldysnizz: I'm love'n it.
kakobrekla: i guess i expressed myself wrongly, as atmel indeed prints arm
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: i thought 'arduino' used an 'atmega'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11600 @ 0.00075066 = 8.7077 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: theres hundredths of versions and editions
asciilifeform: i never really grasped the appeal
mircea_popescu: ;;seen davout
gribble: davout was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 8 hours, 41 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <davout> oui et toi-même ?
asciilifeform: how hard is it to plant a micro in a breadboard or simple pcb ?
punkman: asciilifeform: the selling point is mostly the Arduino IDE
assbot: BitBet - Bitcoin-Central out of business in 2014 :: 0.87 B (8%) on Yes, 10.09 B (92%) on No | closing in 2 months 4 weeks | weight: 36`753 (100`000 to 1)
asciilifeform: ide << what's in there? sdcc?
kakobrekla: ide sux balls.
punkman: and the "community"
asciilifeform: or is this another 'basic stamp' where 'pr0gr4m w1th0ut pr0gr4mm1ng like a l33t ch1xx0r' affair ?
kakobrekla: i use em for dicking around mostly
kakobrekla: and bobms.
mircea_popescu: !up vorandrew
kakobrekla: bombs
mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> exactly like except completely opposite. << lmao
asciilifeform can't read word 'arduino' without immediately thinking 'aradruin' from j.r.r.t's 'silmarillion' (and ru. translation of 'lord of rings')
punkman: cardanduino
jurov: !mpif
assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021861 B (Total: 478.05 B). Delta: -2.17 B. The round stones beneath the earth... have spoken through the fire.
moldysnizz chuckles
moldysnizz: Well, I have a shit-ton of reading now. Thanks for the info.
moldysnizz: I'm going to make my own TRNG. With hookers, and blackjack!
mircea_popescu: since you're doing that might as well go the whole nine yards
jurov: mircea_popescu: http://mpex.co/?mpsic=F.MPIF has no text
assbot: F.MPIF last 1@0.00020614
mircea_popescu: make your own grilfriend
mircea_popescu: jurov looking
asciilifeform: grilfriend << 'i'm cooked on that side, please turn me over' (st lawrence of rome?)
kakobrekla never watched lord of the rings
mircea_popescu: me either.
asciilifeform: good book, but you need to be a kid to appreciate imho
asciilifeform: the film - depends if you go in for that kind of film
kakobrekla: wtf is with the round stones in the mpif fund, did you invest in that ?
asciilifeform: ;;google round stones beneath the earth
gribble: Neil Young - The Round Stones Beneath The Earth (Dead Man ...: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kQk8fborG4>; Dead Man Script - Drew's Script-O-Rama: <http://www.script-o-rama.com/movie_scripts/d/dead-man-script-transcript-jarmusch.html>; The Round Stones Beneath the Earth... — Neil Young — Last.fm: <http://www.last.fm/music/Neil+Young/_/The+Round+Stones+Beneath+the+Earth...>
assbot: F.MPIF last 1@0.00020614
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla wait wut ?
jurov: gut :)
assbot: Logged on 29-09-2014 18:16:19; assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021861 B (Total: 478.05 B). Delta: -2.17 B. The round stones beneath the earth... have spoken through the fire.
mircea_popescu: that'd be mike's doing
kakobrekla: speaking of mike
kakobrekla: ;;seen mike_c
gribble: mike_c was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 days, 20 hours, 32 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <mike_c> (j/k)
jurov: but the phrase is from assbot's fortune file?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20899 @ 0.00075138 = 15.7031 BTC [+] {2}
kakobrekla: !mpif
assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021861 B (Total: 478.05 B). Delta: -2.17 B. Have you got any tobacco?
kakobrekla: its prolly the fact i cant code
kakobrekla: will that keep me off the list btw?
chetty: news.yahoo.com/israeli-circumcision-device-provokes-union-outcry-south-africa-141537701.html
nubbins`: chetty, there's a die antwoord song featuring a xhosa guy talking about circumcision
assbot: Die Antwoord - Evil Boy (Explicit Version) - YouTube
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2979 @ 0.0007472 = 2.2259 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla NO!
Blazedout419: nubbins` got my poster!
fluffypony: please don't link to Die Antwoord, nubbins`
Blazedout419: Looks really nice...now to have it framed.
nubbins`: ah hahaha, fp is having an aneurysm no doubt
nubbins`: Blazedout419 great!
fluffypony: nubbins`: well the thing is, they're not even satirical or funny
fluffypony: they just take tidbits and snippets of red-neck society and then blow it completely out of proportion to try and make it "shocking"
mircea_popescu: fluffypony sounds like a decent recipe for humor neh ?
fluffypony: one would think so
fluffypony: but in doing so they mostly come across as "meh" instead of shocking
mircea_popescu: "Die Antwoord (pronounced [di'ɑnt.ʋoːrt], translation: "The Answer") is a South African rap-rave group formed in Cape Town in 2008."
mircea_popescu: ok nm lol.
mircea_popescu: rave. srsly ?
fluffypony: yeah, see my point?
mircea_popescu: i do actually.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14667 @ 0.00074646 = 10.9483 BTC [-] {2}
xanthyos: IT IS OFFICIAL. THE SOCIALIST DANIEL VITA OF LANGLEY, BRITISH COLUMBIA, HAS ELECTED TO STARVE TO DEATH.
thestringpuller: good afternoon homies
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu i have a quick question about the cardano
kakobrekla: is topace gone from irc for good?
xanthyos: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByuR-E1CcAICyNh.jpg << THIS GUY IS UNSKILLED AT SITTING ON AN AIR MATTRESS
mircea_popescu: xanthyos got a problem down there ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10250 @ 0.00074936 = 7.6809 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: if your question relates to design or manufacture, it is possible that i can help you
Apocalyptic: xanthyos, less caps ?
nubbins`: o wow, just signed up for a circle account and used it for the first time
kakobrekla: thestringpuller yes, the pcb is blue.
nubbins`: such easy
mircea_popescu: can we be friends anymoar ?
nubbins`: imagine, buying btc with a credit card
kakobrekla: nubbins` did you encounter any amount of jerk with that?
nubbins`: kakobrekla as painless as taking a shit
nubbins`: transferred $50 from my credit card, immediately withdrew to cold storage address
Dimsler: lol circled
nubbins`: gonna wait a few days to verify cc fees and do the same in reverse
Dimsler: wait
Dimsler: circle will take CC and convert to btc?
Dimsler: has anyone fed it hacked lines yet?
nubbins`: warning: cash advance fees may apply
Dimsler: whats the approval process?
nubbins`: no approval process, you just enter your billing details
Dimsler: no shit
mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> kakobrekla as painless as taking a shit << ouch :D
mircea_popescu: so basically... just as long as wasn't a big shit.
nubbins`: mp eat more fibre ;)
kakobrekla: or bricks
Dimsler: too much steak
mircea_popescu: Dimsler> has anyone fed it hacked lines yet? << i imagine not really so far.
nubbins`: what amazes me is that they managed to insure this whole process somehow
Dimsler: circle is going down
Dimsler: once the nigerians hear about it taking cc
Dimsler: for btc
Duffer1: that all sounds ripe for abuse
Dimsler: i know
Dimsler: sitting there feeding cvvs
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: it relates to "intended use". I want to know if a certain scenario is in scope.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: ideally, ask here, but if you must - pgp
asciilifeform: i can't think of any reason not to ask publiclyh
thestringpuller: We are talking publicly?
thestringpuller: I was just wondering if you were in the mood to take questions :P
Dimsler: who the fuck is stringpuller
kakobrekla: is in scope if you hook it up to one
asciilifeform: i will be, for at least another ten minutes, then i go & take break from computer, cut a little aluminum
nubbins`: oh lel, my visa-enabled debit card works, too
Dimsler: lol wow
Dimsler: no idea verification?
kakobrekla: see nubbins` try out his 584 cards going broke
nubbins`: Dimsler nope just cvv
Dimsler: whats the limit to load in?
nubbins`: $500 per week, it seems
mircea_popescu: Dimsler what a stupid q lol. how would they enforce a limit ?
mircea_popescu: 10k ips, 10k stolen cards, 10k bitcoins and womenz ain't one.
Dimsler: LOL
Duffer1: yep
Dimsler: 10k bitcoin = womenz
mircea_popescu: ;;got 99 problems womenz ain't one
gribble: Error: "got" is not a valid command.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: let's have your scenario.
mircea_popescu: ;;google got 99 problems womenz ain't one
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: could the cardano be used as a blackbox key generator? for instance someone once escrow keys that are one time use, the device can sign a message utilizing these generated keys, but they are inevitably destroyed, and no one has true record of the private keys used to sign said message
gribble: I Got 99 Problems But a Bitch Ain't One | Know Your Meme: <http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-got-99-problems-but-a-bitch-aint-one>; I swear to God I got 99 problems but a bitch ain't one /.. – All Me: <http://rap.genius.com/2053385/Drake-all-me/I-swear-to-god-i-got-99-problems-but-a-bitch-aint-one-i-got-99-problems-getting-rich-aint-one>; Spreadshirt Women's 99 Problems But My (1 more message)
thestringpuller: i apologize for the disarray of thoughts. a dpaste more flushed out maybe more beneficial in terms of relating the scenario
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: how do you (operator of device) intend to prove to your counterparty that you destroyed key ?
Dimsler: rm -rf
Dimsler: duh
thestringpuller: the counterparty is in the room and takes the cardano as part of the deal
thestringpuller: however the person generating the keys flips the switch
Dimsler: seriously anytype of scenario where a private key has to be trusted leaves room for malice
thestringpuller: to delete them
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: how does your counterparty know that your cardano behaves as printed on the tin, and is not a substitute of identical appearance which you built in evil lab ?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: or that you have not replaced firmware with your own, that spits out a predestined set of keys cyclically ever time zap is thrown ?
thestringpuller: how do people know the cardano came from you asciilifeform and mircea_popescu 's "good lab" in the first place?
Dimsler: signed
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: if you have concerns about solidity of design - you will have to study the published specs (upcoming) before considering purchasing device.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14616 @ 0.00075199 = 10.9911 BTC [+] {4}
nubbins`: then buy the t-shirt
thestringpuller: no concerns just trying to see if use case i possible
asciilifeform: if you have concerns about supply chain - there is no choice, assuming you wish to use device, other than to examine your particular unit.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't get the logic in your last two
mircea_popescu: so the guy is supposed to study the design, to find out if it comes fro mevil lab ?
asciilifeform: this is the #1 most asked question
thickasthieves: to learn how to audit
asciilifeform: 'why should i believe you'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform bt YOU asked HIM
thickasthieves: i recall you stating buyer can replace parts
Dimsler: what a silly conversation
Dimsler: honestly there still a certain level of trust
Dimsler: that has to occur
asciilifeform: i believe thestringpuller is asking for a known impossibility - a mechanical angel.
Dimsler: i mean what are you nit picking at?
asciilifeform: that will broker transactions for him, be instantly recognizable as angelic on sight by a counterparty, etc.
thickasthieves: you cannot remove trust from human dealing
Dimsler: i know
Dimsler: thestringpuller, quit trolling
asciilifeform: let's rephrase. why, in just about any army in the world, soldier must carry and care for his own rifle?
asciilifeform: why not a barrel full of rifles, handed out before attack.
nubbins`: ooh i know
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: i see.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually this is how it was done during romanian revolution
asciilifeform: well if only source for rifles is plundered arsenal - yes
mircea_popescu: coupla guys showed up at state tel;evsion building, dumped a sack of machine guns on floor
mircea_popescu: everyone got some. derps couldn't even fire them, stuffed pants
mircea_popescu: "get one, might be handy"
mircea_popescu: true story.
Dimsler: lol
asciilifeform: what were they? kalash clones ?
mircea_popescu: (not really machine guns as in, three person platform fired band fed. shitty mps)
mircea_popescu: ;;google pistolul automat carpati
gribble: Pistoale | Comparison tables - SocialCompare: <http://socialcompare.com/en/comparison/arme-1bce5qox>; Infanteria Română – 180 de ani - Revista Forţelor Terestre: <http://www.rft.forter.ro/_wsn/01_biblioteca/pdf/c-006-infanteria-romana-180-de-ani.pdf>; teroristii din decembrie 1989 « The Romanian Revolution of ...: <http://romanianrevolutionofdecember1989.com/tag (1 more message)
xanthyos: capslock on the internet is the death throe of the loud poor man
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: mechanical angel << well cardano is resistant to DPA, isn't this an angelic property?
thickasthieves: caps lock key shouldnt even exist imo
xanthyos: it made sense on mechanical typewriters
assbot: PA Md. 1986 - Wikipedia
thickasthieves: back when typing in all caps was okay?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: try to understand the idea. your particular unit, which you unpack, (optionally) study under microscope, replace various parts (optionally) with old stock, etc. - you can vouch for the properties of.
xanthyos: back when people used to troll with paper
asciilifeform: another fellow who pulls out a visually-similar apparatus - what can you say about his.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: looks like ordinary kalash
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: oh now i see. i was once blind. thanks for giving me eyes.
mircea_popescu: "România, membră a Tratatului de la Varșovia, a decis trecerea la noul calibru la începutul anilor 1980. În loc să fabrice direct o copie a automatului AK-74, conducerea de la București a decis dezvoltarea unei arme independent de cea sovietică. Rezultatul, Pușca Automată Model 1986, deși similară familiei AK-74, avea unele elemente constructive proprii. "
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: believe or not, they used to sell them - here! a few hundred usd.
mircea_popescu: moved to the m16-inspired vietnam 5.56, in 1980, but decided to make own gun
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how they ended up in america - who knows!
nubbins`: thickasthieves: you obviously grew up in the age of varying-case fonts
mircea_popescu: ended up with clone with "some own elements"
mircea_popescu: it's really not a very good gun
nubbins`: should be a lower-case lock key IMO.
Dimsler: well romanian aks are pretty nice
Dimsler: probably the best one vs an original russian one
asciilifeform: goes 'bang' when pull trigger, that's generally all people ask for around here
Dimsler: what year did romanian aks go to mild receivers?
Dimsler: er milled
asciilifeform: american aficionados grumble about ro. metallurgy
kakobrekla: asciilifeform also 'not in the face' ?
asciilifeform: but i can't say specifically why
mircea_popescu: Dimsler not an expert, but prolly the 70s.
asciilifeform: not in the face << obligatory:
asciilifeform: ;;google project eldest son
gribble: Project Eldest Son - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Eldest_Son>; Project Eldest Son – The U.S. Scheme to Sabotage Charlie's Rifles |: <http://militaryhistorynow.com/2013/11/15/project-eldest-son-the-secret-u-s-scheme-to-sabotage-charlies-ammo/>; Project Eldest Son: Covert Ammo Sabotage in Vietnam | Field ...: (1 more message)
asciilifeform: ^ where the ubiquitous image of 'kalash that fires backwards' came from
thickasthieves: i think mp or someone already shared something like this, but http://dpaste.com/1ACV2MC
assbot: dpaste: 1ACV2MC: You Have a New Comment, by tat
Dimsler: lol
asciilifeform: broken spamatron.
Dimsler: the ak is pretty decent for back fires
asciilifeform: the 'eldest son' trick would work on almost any small arm
asciilifeform: or hell, even artillery piece
nubbins`: lel I KNOW RIGHT
Dimsler: LOL
asciilifeform: (americans simply replaced one or two shells' powder with tetryl, resealed container, and left it for enemy to find as a trophy)
kakobrekla: Y I NO SHIP? I R AIRPLANE.
asciilifeform: out of curiosity, q for the aficionados: is there any mining hw vendor that is innocent of the scam 'bfl' is known to have carried out ?
thickasthieves: i'd say no
kakobrekla: fury?
thickasthieves: ah maybe them
thickasthieves: asicminer did technically IPO before they had a thing
thickasthieves: though they never took customer money w/o shipping
asciilifeform: but is there even one asic vendor that didn't mine with customer-paid chips before shipping ?
thickasthieves: they also have the best logo
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
asciilifeform: not even 'testing' ?
kakobrekla got his chips before he managed to get em running
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7724 @ 0.00075288 = 5.8152 BTC [+]
The20YearIRCloud: Doesn't Romania still use stamped AK recievers? I know all the ones we get here in the US are paper thin
asciilifeform: The20YearIRCloud: (ianal!) but recently i was told that it is, apparently, still legal to cut your own 'receiver' in usa - so long as you write your name on it.
The20YearIRCloud: Very much so , i have several
mircea_popescu: The20YearIRCloud yeah mostly
The20YearIRCloud: Manufacturing firearms isn't illegal anyhwere in the US outside of California and NY whom have additional restrictions. The federal deal is that it has to comply with all local laws, and if you intent to sell it, they require your information to be on it.
punkman: this circle thing works, just grabbed a cheap coin
The20YearIRCloud: And then, the 'firearm' as far as the USG and ATF are concerned is the part that contains the serial number
nubbins`: punkman +1 amirite
asciilifeform: The20YearIRCloud: afaik there's some national list of prohibited features
The20YearIRCloud: So with an AK/AR it's the reciever, on something like a glock it's the frame/grip.
punkman: nubbins`: almost +1
The20YearIRCloud: It's a limited group asciilifeform : No barrels under 16" , gun must be 26" or longer, no fully auto/burst. No shotguns under 18" barrel.
punkman: surprised it worked in this shithole
asciilifeform wonders if small arms makers in usa spend more on metals, machining, or lawyers
The20YearIRCloud: The uS passed a law a while ago that made it quite hard to sue a gun maker
asciilifeform: sue (civil action) or prosecute ?
punkman: nubbins`: did you get like 10 sms messages from them?
The20YearIRCloud: Because if they would allow it, it would bring on a severe wave of 'i improperly used your product to hurt someone, so i'm gonna sue' which happend a ton in the early 90s
asciilifeform: let's say you manufacture, e.g., shotguns. then inspector walks in, with a piece inscribed with your logo, 17" long.
asciilifeform: how you prove it was 18 when left your shop ?
The20YearIRCloud: Depends on what kind of inspection you're talking about
nubbins`: punkman any major action required a SMS verification code
asciilifeform: whatever kind of inspection (ianal)
The20YearIRCloud: Well, most firearm firms that have a worry about the legality might send a copy or a blueprint to the ATF to get certification
asciilifeform: yes - of design
The20YearIRCloud: If it's a prototype, and you have a commercial manufacture license, you can fix that
asciilifeform: but how to prove that you didn't make a particular non-compliant item
The20YearIRCloud: If it's 17" , the law says you can just weld a piece of scrap metal to it that's 1" long and make it get to the minimum length
The20YearIRCloud: It's very, very difficult
asciilifeform: no, think about the hypothetical. inspector walks in with 17 inch barrel, says 'you made this. now to jail.'
The20YearIRCloud: SIG very recently put out a few hundred thousand items that the ATF decided they didn't like, and they were essentially impossible to recall, so ATF sued them, and SIG won the lawsuit
asciilifeform: you: 'it was 18. you sawed it off at fbi headquarters.'
The20YearIRCloud: Depends on commercial manufacture or doing it yourself
Duffer1: welding a muzzle device counts too
asciilifeform: inspector: 'libelling a loyal servant of the crown. extra jail points!'
The20YearIRCloud: Read up on the story of Ruby ridge to find what happens over that inch asciilifeform
The20YearIRCloud: becuase that's what happened. A ATF agent got a guy to cut a inch off a shotgun in exchange for $200, then started a whole ordeal over it
asciilifeform: that's tame compared to the gedankenexperiment. ordinary 'entrapment.'
The20YearIRCloud: Well in the case of ruby ridge the USG killed the guy's family
asciilifeform: but what if your refuse to break the laws, and inspector helpfully buys your 18 and cuts it in his office.
The20YearIRCloud: law says it's on them, although it could be done, ala gunwalker
Duffer1: forces can trick you into breaking the law with impunity
The20YearIRCloud: where they forced a gun store to sell guns to a known cartel member, or otherwise they'd throw all the people in jail. Then said cartel guy kills quite a few with said gun.
asciilifeform: just seems like you're at the total mercy of the crown, if you're a legal (registered) small-arms whatever-business.
asciilifeform: since law is whatever they say it is, and they can trot out whatever piece of hardware and say it came from your conveyor,
asciilifeform: they can force you to do or say absolutely anything - say, borrow your wife, or whatnot.
nubbins`: ;;tslb
gribble: Error: Problem retrieving latest block data.
nubbins`: no kidding
asciilifeform: in fact, this logically applies to anyone known to own the required tools for manufacturing illegal widgets
The20YearIRCloud: or legal ones
asciilifeform: this is roughly the situation with organic chemistry in usa, and has been for many years
asciilifeform: owns beaker? terrorist. all that remains is for inquisitor to establish what naughty substance you were making (or intended to make - separate article in penal code)
asciilifeform: you: 'i wanted a belousov–zhabotinsky reaction.' judge: 'you want chemisty - go to a store.' you: 'can't buy in a store' judge:
asciilifeform: 'then illegal'
nubbins`: !up PeterL
nubbins`: use it wisely
PeterL: asciilifeform: presumably the gun manufactureres keep records of what they produce
asciilifeform: PeterL: you don't get it, do you
PeterL: signed by the techs certifiying they meet specs
PeterL: then they can use those docs in court
asciilifeform: PeterL: inspector walks in with the 17-inch barrel, and says 'you are also guilty of falsifying records, since your records do not show that you made this'
PeterL: then they would have to prove records were falsified
asciilifeform: really.
asciilifeform: this is the basic 'kilo of cocaine in your toilet tank' theorem
asciilifeform: any 'strict liability offence' carries with it - this theorem
asciilifeform: in that burden of proof is, de facto, on the accused in all cases.
asciilifeform: because in as far as prosecutor goes - he has easy life. i.e. an illegal $item with your name on it
asciilifeform: 'loyal servant of the crown says he found this under your bed.'
PeterL: I wonder if this has been tried in court yet?
asciilifeform: depends on what you mean by 'this'
PeterL: your example, modified gun used to prosecute manufacturer of record?
asciilifeform: PeterL: normally they use 'child porn' to create a 'lettre de cachet' rather than gun.
asciilifeform: gun is just one example.
PeterL: could agent walk into my lab and say "You have benzyl chloride, acetonitrile and methylamine, therfore intent to manufacture methamphetamine"?
mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> use it wisely << actually he can selfvoice nao.
asciilifeform: (ask lawyer, see if agrees. as i understand - yes.)
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> in that burden of proof is, de facto, on the accused in all cases. << goes neatly with the
PeterL: but any organic lab will have those ingredients
mircea_popescu: 'why can't miracles be accepted in science"
mircea_popescu: and for that matter, an excellent example of why so called "strict liability" and the rule of law can not coexist.
mircea_popescu: any state purporting to enforce strict liability is pure stalinism and nothing but.
Duffer1: i believe it would be enough for an arrest, prosecution would be more difficult
asciilifeform: exactly what i was trying to explain here.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu then whytf is he PMing me asking for voice?!
nubbins`: !down PeterL
Duffer1: arrest if an officer wanted to fuck with you
mircea_popescu: nubbins` perhaps he doesn't know it yet ?
nubbins`: i guess he does now
mircea_popescu: PeterL ident with gribble and voice yerself.
nubbins`: ;;gettrust assbot PeterL
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user PeterL: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 3 via 3 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=PeterL | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=PeterL | Rated since: Wed Apr 16 17:10:12 2014
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6700 @ 0.00075288 = 5.0443 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: another ghost graces us with her presence :P
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23584 @ 0.00075288 = 17.7559 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Max Keiser to Join Russell Brand on The Trews for One Week | The Anti-Media
xanthyos: ^ two men both of whom i have trusted and have let me down. "but i love him and maybe this time he won't beat me."
xanthyos remembers 2010's "buy silver crash jp morgan" keiser scam
Duffer1: how's maxcoin doing these days btw? :P
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28800 @ 0.00075286 = 21.6824 BTC [-]
xanthyos: i don't even track the prices of any alts
xanthyos: russell brand used to have a radio show 10 years ago full of revolutionary antistatist ideas. then he started getting work for cbs and disney and got quiet
mircea_popescu: * xanthyos remembers 2010's "buy silver crash jp morgan" keiser scam << should prolly blog about it
xanthyos: i was one of the idiots who bought silver at 29 and held it even when it spiked to 48
asciilifeform remembers
asciilifeform also remembers thinking 'doesn't kodak corp. have most of the supply, not jpm'
punkman: how many times did Kodak go bankrupt?
mircea_popescu: ahhh it's so great to see blogger.com die
xanthyos: i got all my information from keiser's call-ins to the alex jones show, so i guess i deserved to lose
Dimsler: the two biggest idiots
xanthyos: when idiots speak confidently, it's hard to resist their charm. that's why jehovah's witnesses visit in pairs
Dimsler: pretty sure the only people taking jones seirously are low brow hicks
Dimsler: that are easy to convince into a wearing a tin foil hat
xanthyos: his gravelly voice puts me to sleep
thestringpuller: lets all buy caves property
mircea_popescu: shit guise, drop everything.
mircea_popescu: the future of payments is here.
Dimsler: lol
thestringpuller: ah the 90's
Dimsler: lol are you still here
assbot: WebMoney — Universal Payment System
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32900 @ 0.00075301 = 24.774 BTC [+] {4}
punkman: mircea_popescu: probably older than paypal
The20YearIRCloud: I'm the only guy i know that bought into silver that hasn't lost a good deal of money into it
nubbins`: i know a hippie that put every cent he had into silver in 2008
The20YearIRCloud: at what price?
nubbins`: around 10-12 iirc
The20YearIRCloud: He sell when it was $20-$48?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22983 @ 0.00075309 = 17.3083 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15917 @ 0.00075345 = 11.9927 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19400 @ 0.00075354 = 14.6187 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Biologists find an early sign of cancer | MIT News Office
assbot: Cory Maye - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Interesting write up. I do wonder though why they picked OS 9 and not... 7
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19084 @ 0.00075286 = 14.3676 BTC [-]
assbot: Meth charge dropped after only spaghetti sauce found on spoon
assbot: jborkl_ +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
Azelphur: BingoBoingo: I feel this is relevant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88Y9ja9s5f0
assbot: How To Make Pancakes Like A Druggie - YouTube
BingoBoingo: !up jborkl_
jborkl_: wtf is up with assbot, shithead
jborkl_: thank you for the up BingoBoingo
assbot: jborkl_ +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
jborkl_: is there a new assbot rule I am not aware of?
BingoBoingo: Azelphur: Nice
jurov: ;;gettrust assbot jborkl_
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask jborkl_!~jborkl@unaffiliated/jborkl. Trust relationship from user assbot to user jborkl_: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=jborkl_ | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=jborkl_ | Rated since: Tue Nov 6 13:11:21 2012
jurov: assbot doesn't know you
assbot: US Judge Griesa holds Argentina in contempt in debt case| Reuters
mircea_popescu: how does that work.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: why they picked OS 9 and not... 7 << 9 is the end of that line, wtf would you want with 7
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: afaik, no serious bloat or otherwise objectionable item was introduced between 7 and 9 (unless you really hate colour display)
asciilifeform not mac expert
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well their previous archeology experiment was DOS... Also 7.X series supports color.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: so unearthing 7 would be akin to using, say, dos 2 instead of 6.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: no reason whatsoever to do this, unless ancient proggy demands it
BingoBoingo: Well 9 doesn't run on 68k hardware...
asciilifeform: afaik - 8 did
BingoBoingo: 8 does, but requires... greasing
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: incidentally, do you own an 'amiga' ?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 68k, and very highly developed asm/demo culture
BingoBoingo: No, but I've looked at some
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what, if anything, do you use for a www browser on your 68k ?
cazalla: mircea_popescu, what's the reason that payment this week is considerably less than previous ones?
cazalla: cyber lashing for being lazy previous week?
assbot: Search For Eric Frein Shifts | WNEP.com
xanthyos: heh, oliver twist asking mr bumble for some more
cazalla: asciilifeform, reads like First Blood
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: what, if anything, do you use for a www browser on your 68k ? << Telling people their websites are broken
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: 68k, and very highly developed asm/demo culture << I may eventually pick one up.
asciilifeform: cazalla: or like eric frank russell's 'wasp'.
asciilifeform: cazalla: imagine if instead of one desperado, 100. each in different city.
asciilifeform: but, as in 'wasp', one suffices.
asciilifeform: or, suppose herr frein studied, e.g., robotics, and/or aeronautics, or, ..., ..., instead (or in addition to) small arms.
asciilifeform: !s clever poor
mats_cd03: 17:42:24 <+jborkl_> is there a new assbot rule I am not aware of? << 26-09-2014 21:31:23 <mircea_popescu> ;;unrate jborkl_
mats_cd03: oh wait, he quit.
mircea_popescu: this minimum effort bs, meh.
mircea_popescu: cazalla apparently i can't zero.
mircea_popescu: fixing sorry.
mircea_popescu: los_pantalones: then tried to sell them OTC using bitpay as broker << mostly because everyone else had more sense than to be involved.
cazalla: midnightmagic, np ty
mircea_popescu: but bitpay gotta stick with the old ring of scammers because why not.
mircea_popescu: TomServo: Is this bizarro world? <<< well lenovo isn't a us state corp.
mircea_popescu: getting ACTUAL dollars, ie, reducing your external debt, ios a whole different story from shuffling bezzlars among the branches of state / various state owned entreprises in a ridiculous but doomed attempt to simulate a working economy
[]bot: Bet placed: 3 BTC for No on "BTC Difficulty over 41Bn before November" http://bitbet.us/bet/1050/ Odds: 54(Y):46(N) by coin, 59(Y):41(N) by weight. Total bet: 10.64957118 BTC. Current weight: 55,810.
peterl_: why doesn't Lenovo capitalize their name? for the longest time I thoght it was Ienovo
BingoBoingo: ;;google Ienovo
gribble: ‪#‎ienovo‬ - Facebook: <https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/ienovo>; Ienovo A680 - Phone & Gadget Accessories for sale in Cheras ...: <http://www.mudah.my/Ienovo+A680-28977948.htm>; Ienovo - Lenovo: <http://www.lenovo.com/social_responsibility/us/en/EC-DoC_Lenovo_G480.pdf>
BingoBoingo: ;;google 1enovo
gribble: .minecraft com mods Basicos/Optifine & Rei's Minimap 1.5.1 e novo ...: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbmHQ0JGlWM>; High Res - Lenovo Partner Network: <http://www.partnerinfo.lenovo.com/partners/weref/resources/downloads/brand/think-range/Poster_Channel_Think_Range_HighRes_UK.pdf>; details - Lenovo: (1 more message)
dub: yeah! or just spell phonetically: renovo
assbot: Drug case that won Darren Wilson an award at risk : News
thickasthieves: cheap coins will be over soon methinks
thickasthieves: maybe last hoorah tonight
dub: solid TA there
thickasthieves: well if you want charts go to my site, but i havent published any lately
TheNewDeal: Please explain
thickasthieves: but ive charted this thing inside and out and it's just a probable thing according to my tea leaves
thickasthieves: doesnt mean it's gonna happen
dub: whats your traderview again
dub should think about storing bookmarks outside his browser history
assbot: BTCUSD BFX - Repeating Waves? - TradingView
assbot: The Devil's Advocate | Telling it like it might be.
cazalla: cheap coins, no cash, have car rego and insurance to pay this friday, that burns more than having bought previously at higher price
thickasthieves: my outlook hasnt really changed for a while
dub: 3rd world problems
thickasthieves: just took longer than i initially figured
assbot: White House intruder ran past door, over Secret Service agent, into East Room.
assbot: Hitlers unge ddsgud - VG+
dub: is this becoming a sport? how far can you make it into the wh
mircea_popescu: dub im rooting for the "we fucked in the white house" blog
TheNewDeal: ;;Bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 323110 | Current Difficulty: 3.466142592397694E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 324575 | Next Difficulty In: 1465 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 4 days, 0 hours, 21 minutes, and 39 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 32445954336.7 | Estimated Percent Change: -6.39175
xanthyos: what about a "what illegal things can we get to grow on the whitehouse lawn" sport
mircea_popescu: well that takes time
peterl_: white house weed?
xanthyos: mushrooms pop up overnite
thickasthieves: i always wanted to get an asston of pot seeds and go johnny appleseed across the nation
dub: parts of china are like that apparently
thickasthieves: just make the thing a weed
dub: grows everywhere, locals mostly dont know what it is
peterl_: are seeds expensive?
xanthyos: only if feminized
mircea_popescu: dude this "solutions" bullshit. everyone and their "solution". you can't buy a fucking corkscrew, it's gotta be a bottle opening solution
peterl_: the other question, would growing wild still produce useable product?
dub: eys
dub: yes
xanthyos: it wouldn't be as nice but it would do the trick
thickasthieves: well people would just grow their own if they wanted after that
peterl_: quantity makes up for low quality?
thickasthieves: cant realli be illegal if it's everywhere
thickasthieves: same for bitcoin really
dub: isnt it already heading that way?
dub: weed not btc
thickasthieves: well its changing quickly
xanthyos: dmt is illegal and it exists in the pineal gland of every brain
thickasthieves: i remember 5 yrs ago i told my wife itd be legal in US in our lifetime and she said no way
thickasthieves: i doubt she'd disagree today
dub: yeah sentiment be changing from the 50s where anything the govt said was true
peterl_: but will other drugs still be illegal, or will there always be a "off-limits" list?
mircea_popescu: !up AMDCeleron
AMDCeleron: whats up everyone
AMDCeleron: i love the name assbot
mircea_popescu: dub mostly because the govt's been changing. back in the 50s, most of what it said actually was close enough
AMDCeleron: who made assbot?
mircea_popescu: AMDCeleron who're you ?
AMDCeleron: a celeron processor made by amd
peterl_: are you a bot?
AMDCeleron: i am a loser
AMDCeleron: what are you
AMDCeleron: what are you?
peterl_: I'm a chemist
mircea_popescu: mkay this is not going so well.
AMDCeleron: intel inside celeron n2830
mircea_popescu: !down AMDCeleron
mircea_popescu: gimme my voice back.
peterl_: lol
xanthyos: ;;gettrust AMDCeleron
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user xanthyos to user AMDCeleron: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=xanthyos&dest=AMDCeleron | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=AMDCeleron | Rated since: never
peterl_: that was quick, usually you let them play longer
mircea_popescu: i guess im growing old.
BingoBoingo: !up meowmix
mircea_popescu: fucking noobs, check this guy out.
meowmix: hey everyone
mircea_popescu: meowmix at least get a cloak, derp.
meowmix: whats a cloak?
mircea_popescu: * AMDCeleron (~Sapphire@c-50-163-48-232.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has left #bitcoin-assets
mircea_popescu: * meowmix (~Sapphire@c-50-163-48-232.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #bitcoin-assets
meowmix: whatever
assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1VYZ4EP.txt )
meowmix: who likes hurricane?
assbot: Last 5000 lines bashed and pending review. ( error )
meowmix: !b 5000
jurov: thickasthieves: my area TAs are saying it will keep getting down to last year's $100-150
assbot: Last 50 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3DAV6Y0.txt )
meowmix: !b 50
BingoBoingo: wait for it...
jurov: and then rbounce
BingoBoingo: !down meowmix
kakobrekla: yeah buttcoins are getting expensive
mircea_popescu: jesus fuck omfg
mircea_popescu: dragonfly flew right throug window into my head
mircea_popescu: i thought i was getting shit in slow motion ;/
BingoBoingo: Has the dragonfly been captured to check for tampering?
Peter_Lambert: one of those micro drones?
mircea_popescu: its an actual dragonfly.
mircea_popescu: that was trippy.
BingoBoingo: Next you know Obama's going to be having a good laught about the two dragonflies that fucked on your head while you were sleeping tomorrow night
assbot: 10 Surprisingly Brutal Facts About Dragonflies - Listverse
BingoBoingo: We have an insect gap.
mircea_popescu: "hey miss, could i inspect your insect gap ?"
thickasthieves: <+jurov> thickasthieves: my area TAs are saying it will keep getting down to last year's $100-150 // tis possible
assbot: The complexity of life, a triad pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
assbot: Frog Fail! (Dragonfly escapes frog attack) - YouTube
mircea_popescu: pretty cool article
Namworld: Regarding dragonflies... When doing canoe/kayak on a river and being pestered by large black flies. It's fun to watch dragonflies sweep in and catch the flies in flight.
assbot: Dragonfly Slow Motion - YouTube
Namworld: Eheh
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10750 @ 0.00075125 = 8.0759 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Vexual: You're up early today
Vexual: yes yes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17383 @ 0.00075125 = 13.059 BTC [-]
dub: mircea_popescu: related http://tabletopwhale.com/
assbot: Tabletop Whale
cazalla: damn, leo treasure got ganked for 750btc
kakobrekla: hows that?
assbot: Early Bitcoin Adopter Calls for Multi-Sig Solutions After 750 BTC Theft
cazalla: every time i've seen him on tv it's because he's been scammed
dub: yeah, 750 should be nothing in teh grander scheme of his losses
kakobrekla: former computer science student and bitcoin entrepreneur from Perth, Australia, told CoinDesk he was traveling in Bali and didn’t think connecting to public Wi-Fi could be a security issue as his bitcoins were stored locally.
kakobrekla: cmon.
JuliaTourianski: this happened in washington at the meetup...
JuliaTourianski: conference*
JuliaTourianski: circle jerk*
dub: wait his handle is Treasure?
dub: oh
cazalla: Treasureless now
ben_vulpes: good afternoooooon
Vexual: i don't think multisig is the sultion to his error
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18975 @ 0.00075068 = 14.2442 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: <fluffypony> please don't link to Die Antwoord, nubbins` << oh ho why is that?
Vexual: first time bali?
ben_vulpes: wow what the fuck is wrong with you Vexual
ben_vulpes: is there a lunar eclipse wherever you live and you can get out of the coffin out of schedule?
ben_vulpes: solar
Vexual: oh i was talking about leo treasures misfortune
ben_vulpes: dammit
Vexual: and how having another key on that fat wallet migth have brought more misfortune
Vexual: "first time in bali?" is always like the first or second question
nubbins`: "Treasure’s remaining coins are in multi-sig wallets and Casascius physical coins. "
nubbins`: thickasthieves was saying something about this the other day
nubbins`: well, similar, anyway
assbot: Logged on 11-09-2014 17:12:58; ThickAsThieves: well, i think of the added force the impose to not sell your coins
nubbins`: s/sell/be relieved of
dub: Vexual: no shit, always a good idea to carry $.25m on your person where the locals would gut you for a bowl of rice
mircea_popescu: dub not bad
mircea_popescu: ;;seen leotreasure
gribble: leotreasure was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 0 weeks, 6 days, 12 hours, 56 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <leotreasure> they're in the final process
mircea_popescu: Multi-sig addresses, he wrote are “the only viable solution for securing bitcoins”. <<< pushing this shit incredibly hard are we.
mircea_popescu: "The standard model is to require two out of three keys to spend from a balance – of those keys, one goes to the user, one to the service (exchange or wallet) provider and another to a trusted third party." << how the fuck is this going to help anything for crying out loud
mircea_popescu: such nonsense.
Vexual: balinese dice?
mircea_popescu: cazalla listen, we need someone to make a proper bitcoin news venue.
mircea_popescu: instead of linking to a coindesk piece, just rewrite it so it's no longer FUCKTARDED, publish it and link that.
Vexual: aren't we here
Vexual: hmm
mircea_popescu: win-win.
cazalla: mircea_popescu, i looked elsewhere but it seems he spoke to them about it
mircea_popescu: only reason anyone's speaking to them is because of this false perception of "leadership"
mircea_popescu: exactly same reason derps flock to tardstalk
assbot: Coindesk is deleting comments that question the validity of their articles. : Bitcoin
mircea_popescu: it's a shithole of the first degree, and it only continues to exist because everyone's like... meh, whatever, ragazines.
cazalla: is that an endoresment to start one?
mircea_popescu: it wasn't so bad back when the bitpay & co set of scammers that had stolen bitcoin magazine were still hoping that brand's not now dead,
mircea_popescu: but meanwhile...
mircea_popescu: cazalla definitely.
mircea_popescu: im sick of reading fucktarded goop because that's where people link for a story like that because apparently nobody else wrote it.
mircea_popescu: it's like having all fruit glacee'd in shit. how about someone start a greengrocer already, we don't need any of this glacee business.
kakobrekla: mostly only people who already know the real story are interested in it, not your avg reader
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla the average reader'd be interested in where his butthole is, if he could strain his brain enough to learn he even has one.
Vexual: im thinkin paywall
kakobrekla: i think the question 'who are you writing for' is in place
kakobrekla: for us - redundant.
mircea_popescu: problem is if you let this shit continue indefinitely you'll have an endless stream of idiots with firmly entrenched idiocies.
mircea_popescu: "99% don't give a shit about gavin's latest stupidity, but this is not a signal to stfu and go home"
mircea_popescu: "before than, 99% didn't give a shit about bitcoind 0.7 or .8 or .9, but CORE DEVS!!!"
BingoBoingo wonders where a managing editor might be found. Experience with this seems to be the scarce piece.
mircea_popescu: well done, core devs for a project that massively ignores you.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the problem is the sort of drive.
mircea_popescu: what's needed is someone willing and able to put 16 hour days into this for years.
mircea_popescu: an arrington is what's needed in this space. and by god this is the chance for someone like that to become something like that.
Vexual: i know little enough to edit
dub: what we really need is btc onion
kakobrekla: if you let this shit continue < way too much stuff continues to continue and noone can do shit.
cazalla: i'll have a think about it, i don't want to say yes unless i'll actually commit to it and have a plan of attack
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: This is true.
mircea_popescu: dub nah, sa got that covered.
mircea_popescu: cazalla ideally a team.
kakobrekla: and lots of css
TheNewDeal: where is the btc onion? I would like a link
Vexual: rss?
dub: bootstrap?
kakobrekla: html3 and css5
mircea_popescu: and none of the fucktarded retardation of that guy what's his name, the wanna-be competition for coindesk and co,
mircea_popescu: the guy that was here for five minutes but then concluded he has better things to do
mircea_popescu: with the same stupid head that then generated that entire "taking full responsibility" fiasco.
cazalla: coinfire?
assbot: Let's Get Meta with Site Ownership via Token - Coin Fire
mircea_popescu: it's been going to shit ever since the guy ran out of his 6 months of time and "had to make revenue"
mircea_popescu: his attempts are so naive and idiotic it pains. definitely sunk the modicum of credibility he had amassed within two weeks.
mircea_popescu: which is what i mean. no movements like that. you run into management problems, come here and ask.
Vexual: ive got a good title
mircea_popescu: and it's unfortunate, too, because all that was easily avoidable.
mircea_popescu: but tim gotta tim all over the tim.
assbot: The Coinion - Bitcoin's Finest News Source
kakobrekla: you defo need a few persons for this and compensated for
mircea_popescu: you can just exploit the current idiots. read and rewrite coindesk and co.
cazalla: that would be enough to get it off the ground until it has traction
Vexual: that huffington lady got richer with her news aggregator than she did maring into shipping
BingoBoingo: I dunno that Coindesk puts out enough material... Too many non-stories http://feeds.feedburner.com/CoinDesk
assbot: CoinDesk
mircea_popescu: cazalla exactly. and you'll know you got the traction cause they start bitcoing.
mircea_popescu: bitching*
mircea_popescu: and it'll be a fine thing too. hurting stuff like coindesk is worth it just on that basis alone.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo to add salt to the cuts you can do a weekly roundup and mock their unpublishable shit.
kakobrekla: go ahead and try then
mircea_popescu: cazalla see inf danielpbarron feels like it.
mircea_popescu: JuliaTourianski what are you doing these days ?
cazalla: i would want to run something like that by myself at first and bring people in later, too many chefs and all that
Duffer1: what would be written about that isn't already covered by bit-ass?
BingoBoingo: cazalla: I'd be up for some story authoring, contributing to the cause. The too many chefs problem isn't about having too many people so much as a shitty heirarchy.
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 it's mostly a format war.
mircea_popescu: cazalla BingoBoingo has it i think. just don't try and run "teams" you'll be fine.
BingoBoingo: It's the editors/writers problem that among other shit killed Coinfire.
BingoBoingo: Like the Chefs/Cooks problems that makes most people's restaurant dreams fail
decimation: so I was listened to this podcast: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2014/01/laurence_kotlik.html << this guy is an "economist" who says that if you total all the present liabilities of usg, they total to $205 trillion
assbot: " + soundfiledesc + "
assbot: LibreSSL: More Than 30 Days Later
mircea_popescu: decimation something like that.
thestringpuller: what is coinfire?
Vexual: i spent 2 hours of my life wathcing huffingtons interview on abc, it was interesting
decimation: I've looked into the numbers and it is pretty much impossible to verify that total
decimation: but it's also impossible to account for the dollar at all
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Coinfire is this site that was promising for a week and a half then turned full derp
decimation: it's safe to say that usg has a present liability of at least all assets in the entire world, possibly more
mircea_popescu: decimation all that really matters is that the us has underwritten liabilities that exceed its ability to pay.
mircea_popescu: by how much is an academic point.
decimation: yes, the evidence for that statement is quite strong
assbot: Logged on 30-09-2014 02:12:18; mircea_popescu: cazalla see inf danielpbarron feels like it.
mircea_popescu: and there's no court in the world that can absolve it through a bankruptcy. whether they try to run one or not. kinda the fundamental reason it ended.
decimation: its choice is to either renig or go broke, it's that simple
mircea_popescu: can't renege.
mircea_popescu: and can't go broke.
mircea_popescu: it's choice is to start sucking cock or try a totalitarian state play.
mircea_popescu: it'll try both, fail both, and that's that.
Vexual: funnily space missions aren't insured generally
assbot: Brooklyn Existentialism - YouTube
Dimsler: such a gem of video
TheNewDeal: truthfully?
Dimsler: yes
Dimsler: disprove all the theories of idiotic englightenment thinkers
TheNewDeal: for example
Dimsler: those are provided for you in the actual discussion
Dimsler: if you bother to listen to it
decimation: "Other concerns he and others have raised relate to the lack of whistleblower protections in the new laws, which jail those who "recklessly" disclose intelligence information. That would include journalists, bloggers or officials, who could be jailed for 10 years"
Dimsler: lol australia
Vexual: yep united states sandbox
cazalla: no more waltzing matilda for me
decimation: I like the "recklessly" in quotes, because they really wanted to say вредительство
Vexual: trasnlation?
Dimsler: its a form of crime
Dimsler: to cause harm
Dimsler: commie lingo
Vexual: more info?
Vexual: |more
decimation: "wrecker", but hearkening back to RSFSR penal codes that allow anyone to be jailed because they were found to be thwarting the great leader's plans
Dimsler: the term means to sabotage a political insititue
cazalla: interestingly, google image search for вредительство shows wrecking balls
mircea_popescu: the term means to pose a threat to the delusions of sovereignity of one less powerful.
Vexual: hmm
Vexual: ahh
Dimsler: yes
mircea_popescu: in the original case, the "workers" and their "party"
decimation: in pratice, anyone who was 'volunteered' to go to the gulag by someone who wanted to 'prove' how powerful they were
decimation: mircea made some good points on this subject but I think the logs were lost
TheNewDeal: dimsler, are marx and freud considered enlightenment thinkers to you?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5585 @ 0.00075059 = 4.192 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7015 @ 0.00074936 = 5.2568 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: decimation im sure i still have them, somewhere. i dun recall this discussion tho.
decimation: you wrote about how those who went to the gulag were volunteers (or volunteered) by people who wanted to be somebodies
mircea_popescu: !s from:mircea_popescu volunteer gulag
assbot: 0 results for 'from:mircea_popescu volunteer gulag' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from%3Amircea_popescu+volunteer+gulag
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2014 10:46:38; mircea_popescu: well... the gulag wasn't avoidable, not practically.
mircea_popescu: o there we go. ty asciilifeform
thickasthieves: <+mircea_popescu> cazalla listen, we need someone to make a proper bitcoin news venue. /// seems like these things never last though, the talent scatters so quickly these days. i'm into the idea though
mircea_popescu: amusingly, gulag references are very sparse in the year before stan showed up
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves which is why drive's what's needed yeah
thickasthieves: just make the b-a blogroll into a magazine ans we can appoint an editor for choosing which stories are big on th ehomepage :)
decimation: as I recall assbot was down when the conversation I recall happened - or I could be wrong
asciilifeform: incidentally, interesting to examine etymology of gulag
Vexual: sounds like hungarian stew to my ear
asciilifeform: гулаг == главное управление лагерей и мест заключения ~= 'main management of camps and places of confinement.'
asciilifeform: so it's really a proxy word, like 'mikado' (door to throne room) in japan, or 'the crown' in english world
thickasthieves: gulash + lag
thickasthieves: goulash*
thickasthieves: they called it "american chop suey" in my elementary school
TheNewDeal: dimsler, despite the disagreement on who are Enlightment thinkers, this video has been six sigmas above the average quality of youtube content
cazalla: most importantly, do i name the site prefixcoin.com, coinsuffix.com or perhaps even bitsuffix.com
thickasthieves: call it The Biz
Vexual: period0
cazalla: blockchaim.com seeing it's all jews
thickasthieves: shaveandahaircut.bit
punkman: cazalla: or you could have neither bit or coin, you know something different
hanbot: heathen!
decimation: someone should apply for the .coin tld
cazalla: punkman, i was being facetious, from memory trilema recommends domain with first 2 letters unique to other sites one visits
thickasthieves: i joked about IPOing a fund to buy crypto-TLDs
thickasthieves: news.club is only $20
thickasthieves: there's a news.wtf
Vexual: club is goode
thickasthieves: so many domains now
punkman: too many
kakobrekla: it turns out you can just print them
kakobrekla: like money!
thickasthieves: but .com is so much more valuable
punkman: I grabbed a .company, to be revealed
cazalla: bit.press
thickasthieves: disassociated.press
punkman: I vote for chumpatron.whatever
Vexual: meh
TheNewDeal: derponomics
cazalla: chumpatron.com avail heh
thickasthieves: disassociated.press must exist already
Vexual: if it doesnt, it shoudn't
thickasthieves: call it rooters then
assbot: Dissociated press - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
thickasthieves: different word tho
punkman: I like that one better
thickasthieves: i can tget over these stupid Frank & Oak ads
thickasthieves: what did i buy to deserve this
Vexual: rooters lol
thickasthieves: could rip off the Hooters logo
thickasthieves: hire saffron to do the summary thing
kakobrekla: that woman is annoying to watch.
Vexual: hes all business this cunt
thickasthieves: well thats why she gets naked
punkman: heh
kakobrekla: only makes it worse
thickasthieves: fine dont hire her!
kakobrekla: lol i dun care
assbot: Millennial Men's Fashion Retailer Frank And Oak Raises $15 Million - Forbes
punkman: "We love commerce, especially new forms of e-commerce which are mobile first,"
thickasthieves: let's make Ernest Hemingway a metrosexual! great idea, here's $15m!
Vexual: thats like 7/10ths of asicminer
dub: derpington post?
TheNewDeal: nothing must be a better bubble predicter than the success of usian fashion businesses
assbot: Nordstrom Will Pay $350 Million for Trunk Club | Re/code
thickasthieves: we're trailblazers in trailblazing
punkman: mobile first trailblazing
thickasthieves: i'm a fan of selling things where i can sell things
Vexual: nice first exit; i like the style
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves> just make the b-a blogroll into a magazine ans we can appoint an editor for choosing which stories are big on th ehomepage :) <<< nah the problem is that ba blogs are author driven, and authors can't generally be arsed to discuss events like leotreasure getting stolen from.
mircea_popescu: this is why a newspaper is not just editors. gotta have someone out there on the beat, too
mircea_popescu: <thickasthieves> call it The Biz <<< this is a great idea.
asciilifeform: leotreasure getting stolen from << lol, so that's an 'event' ? squirrel run over on my street, also 'event' ?
mircea_popescu: <punkman> I grabbed a .company, to be revealed << o ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. people wanna talk about these, and so coindesk ends up linked.
mircea_popescu: this is a problem/
punkman: mircea_popescu: planning for that coin I mentioned
JuliaTourianski: mircea_popescu you know coindesk does not pay their writers in btc? also, they change 90% of their writers' articles without conscent.
punkman: JuliaTourianski: do you know what they pay per article?
punkman: $10-$20?
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