Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-09-10 | 2014-09-12 → ↓
upme_boolcrap: yeah houses in the city
upme_boolcrap: are too expensive
decimation: !s bezzle wolf
chalbersma: So what's next on this P2Pool server?
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2013 21:26:27; asciilifeform: at some point 'the bezzle' becomes real, the cartoon wolf looks down and finally obeys gravity, goes splat off the cliff.
asciilifeform: decimation, BingoBoingo, others - http://imgur.com/mA3Jknc << possibly only good thing about lcd, you can do this.
assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
upme_boolcrap: !nakedchicks
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I wish one could buy a poster-sized display
Duffer1: !bait
decimation: I see you keep a few 4:3 displays too
asciilifeform: decimation: they stack well.
Duffer1: what no bait?
BingoBoingo: do /msg ozbot .d
decimation: lol you dedicate one screen to emacs :)
asciilifeform: no emacs in this picture.
decimation: what's the quartile in the upper right? just terminals?
asciilifeform: 'ratpoison'
asciilifeform: !s ratpoison
asciilifeform: favourite wm
asciilifeform: (not only mine, many folks)
decimation: are all of those displays driven from one machine?
asciilifeform: nothing terribly peculiar
decimation: I bet it was a pain in the ass to setup xconf
asciilifeform: set up once, then live. like building house.
decimation: except if you use gentoo, occasion decisions by crazies wipe out your house, then rebuild...
asciilifeform: or forget about the crazies and run alone.
decimation: so you 'emerge' once and then do everything else by hand?
asciilifeform: mostly.
BingoBoingo: !up devthedev
decimation: sounds legit. I second diametric in that discussion the other day, I like arch as a former gentoo user
asciilifeform not particularly enamoured of gentoo, but there is no real alternative.
chalbersma: It's been a fun gents. I'm going to call it a night. You guys have a good one.
BingoBoingo: devthedev: You ever ru a p2pool?
decimation: agreed, there is an unfilled space for an 'adult' source distro
BingoBoingo: Well ideas of adult and distro tend to run contrary to each other
decimation: ideally the distro should come from ascii's software-priests
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00076747 = 9.8236 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: Or you know... magazines and glue sticks
asciilifeform: !up upme_boolcrap
assbot: HOTEL HELL S02E08 - Murphys Hotel - Watch Online For Free on TubePlus
BingoBoingo: Minute 25 is best minute
decimation: http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/ << there was a strong solare flare from an earth-facing sunspot at 1745 utc, could produce a nasty geomagnetic storm in a few days
assbot: NOAA / NWS Space Weather Prediction Center
upme_boolcrap: i want a solar flare that will destroy every electric instrument on earth
asciilifeform: upme_boolcrap: tough one.
asciilifeform: ;;google faraday cage
gribble: Faraday cage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage>; HowStuffWorks "How Faraday Cages Work": <http://science.howstuffworks.com/faraday-cage.htm>; Build Your Own Faraday Cage. Here's How. - The Survivalist Blog: <http://www.thesurvivalistblog.net/build-your-own-faraday-cage-heres-how/>
decimation: it's not the initial flare, it's the geomagnetic storm, which is mainly a threat to equipment attached to long conductors
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25360 @ 0.00076189 = 19.3215 BTC [-]
decimation: EMP from ionospheric H-bomb is a bigger threat to small electronics, but can be defended as ascii points out
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/36XB71V.txt )
BingoBoingo: Who needs TEMPEST wen you window leaks screen contents
asciilifeform: http://chemistry.stackexchange.com/users/4296/uncle-al << apparently al schwartz is on 'stack exchange'...
assbot: User Uncle Al - Chemistry Stack Exchange
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: re schedule: what aspect of your professional work demands irregular hours?
ben_vulpes: <BingoBoingo> ben_vulpes: The video wiggles only because the world does << yeah, but have you seen the de-wiggler in action?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: multiple jobs, none of which have fixed hours as such
ben_vulpes: ah, i was only privy to the botnet inspector gig and NSA.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: "easy", but do you?
dub: what the fuck is this net slowdown shit
asciilifeform: which 'easy'
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: exercise and regularity of schedule << exercise, easy; regularity of schedule is a dream to me, on account of my profession.
decimation: lol http://washingtonexaminer.com/lights-out-house-plan-would-protect-nations-electricity-from-solar-flare-nuclear-bomb/article/2532038 << " Officials said that the legislation, provided in advance to Secrets, will include information from a recent EMP commission report that "contemporary U.S. society is not structured, nor does it have the means, to provide for the needs of nearly 300 million Americans without electricity.'':
assbot: Lights out: House plan would protect nation's electricity from solar flare, nuclear bomb | WashingtonExaminer.com
dub: my work week looks like ass for the rest of the year
dub: 22:00-03:00 4 nights a week
asciilifeform is not entirely innocent of exercise, is fond of walking around endlessly.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Week I graduated college the world wiggled every other day. Maybe my life stalled out because it stopped???
decimation: I suspect that the fantasy-plans for "contingency usg" would be a hilarious read
BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform is not entirely innocent of exercise, is fond of walking around endlessly. << Walking is my escape plan
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: see robert sheckley's short story 'petrified world.'
assbot: Can You Feel Anything When I Do This?, by Robert Sheckley
decimation: asciilifeform: also recommended by taleb. seems reasonable to do what humans have been doing for millennia
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo, asciilifeform: walking does not take one to the edge of the performance envelope.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Today an old colleague commented that i lost weight. Did not know the proper response to that.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: It can
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: "isn't it great?"
ben_vulpes: "can" is not "does"
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Edge is not always VO2MAX!!!
ben_vulpes: scusi?
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Consecutive days walking is a metric too, right?
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> bell is used by other people to ruin your sleep. in exchange for food & housing. << f/h can be had without signing that contract. contract that includes "bells" should carry a markup adequate to compensate for the interruption of critical bio processes
BingoBoingo: loll Torstein
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: many things 'can be had' in principle - e.g., mircea_popescu's kit.
asciilifeform: reduction to practice - another matter.
ben_vulpes: contract negotiation is where everything starts.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: don't misunderstand the original gripe. the bell is annoying precisely because it rings - rarely.
BingoBoingo: No, sometimes contract happens before negotiation.
asciilifeform: the difference between 'rarely' and 'never' is often more palpable than between 'daily' and 'rarely.'
ben_vulpes: i had misunderstood
asciilifeform merely dreams of living his built-in 26-hour circadian rhythm.
asciilifeform: !up upme_boolcrap
BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform merely dreams of living his built-in 26-hour circadian rhythm. << If I normalize I live on roughly 29 hour dyas
asciilifeform: 29 -> not so bad. resynches with non-mutants weekly or so.
BingoBoingo: Indeed
ben_vulpes: this natural schedule bs is bs
BingoBoingo: Winter though I have week long days. Summer I have day long weeks
ben_vulpes: sun comes up, mammals wake
ben_vulpes: sun goes down, mammals nap
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Oh, my schedule is anything but natural
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: nope.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: ever meet a cat?
ben_vulpes: noctunrnes exluded
BingoBoingo: ;;google Five days with Freddie
gribble: Five Nights at Freddy's Windows game | Desura: <http://www.desura.com/games/five-nights-at-freddys>; Five Nights at Freddy's on Steam: <http://store.steampowered.com/app/319510/>; Five Days At Freddy's| SCARIEST GAME EVER!| Night 1 - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYSVYBdcVL0>
BingoBoingo: I dunno that any advanced primate has a set schedule
asciilifeform: some folks have approximately 24h clock, think we're malingerers. what can i say.
ben_vulpes: hey i'm shoehorning my own cycle into the american business routine too asciilifeform
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Half the year I can make them feel lazy. Unfortunatley for me the half they aren't looking
ben_vulpes: although i never had the oportunity to discover what a "true" or "honest" cycle might look like, i just beat it until it submitted to what i wanted from my life
BingoBoingo: Back in JUly this year I had a week with 90 minutes of sleep
assbot: Watch The Blacklist Online - Milton Bobbit | Hulu
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17541 @ 0.00076586 = 13.434 BTC [+] {3}
ben_vulpes: ;;ud jewgolf
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Westchester | mostly suburban county bordering the bronx to the south and fairfield county, ct to the north. largely perceived as a haven for wealthy investment bankers, ...
ben_vulpes: <BingoBoingo> What, like JewGolf? << dear sir please assplain yourself
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: What, you think the dark run the game of baskets?
BingoBoingo: Stern, Silver???
BingoBoingo: Jews run basketball.
BingoBoingo: Also the chance Wisconsin does not win out the rest of its schedule is so remote that people who want to bet on it need to bitc to the Big 1G
ben_vulpes: teh jooz run everything
ben_vulpes: cept bitcoin
ben_vulpes: ;;gettrust Azelphur
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Azelphur!~Azelphur@azelphur.com. Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user Azelphur: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 6 via 3 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ben_vulpes&dest=Azelphur | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Azelphur | Rated since: Mon Apr 9 00:11:58 2012
BingoBoingo: !up devthedev
Knot_Yeti: someone's paying attention...
Knot_Yeti: <KRS-1> Anyone care to share your thoughts on this article? I know many of you aren't America, but perhaps you can relate afterall. http://boldanddetermined.com/2011/11/10/the-continued-pussification-of-the-american-male/ << holy KRS-1
assbot: The Continued Pussification of the American Male
Knot_Yeti: <BingoBoingo> Fuck KC, I was hoping you'd have an StL solution. Or maybe CoMo << flat, no earthquakes, reliable oil for the gennies, it's in every american seven-niner's uptime plan
Knot_Yeti: lordy im having trouble putting this beer and grinder down
BingoBoingo: Knot_Yeti: Also moar Niggers in the county PD
Knot_Yeti: dun matter for the dc
BingoBoingo: Ferguson could never liberate in KC
Knot_Yeti: !up upme_boolcrap
BingoBoingo: You have to remember I find Ladue Nigger central.
BingoBoingo: RUF is for the people
Knot_Yeti: you're making less sense than vexual
BingoBoingo: Knot_Yeti: No, I'm just saying STLCPD is a bunch of Niggers and the blacks in Ferguson deserve the right to lynch them\
Knot_Yeti: i certainly wouldn't know
BingoBoingo: Knot_Yeti: Well of course you can't in Vanilla city
Knot_Yeti: but i'm not about to stand up for the assholes running bikers over while tapping on their wheelbox-mounted tablest
Knot_Yeti: Homogeneity City
mircea_popescu: Knot_Yeti who're you ?
Knot_Yeti: ;;ident
gribble: CAUTION: irc nick differs from otc registered nick. Nick 'Knot_Yeti', with hostmask 'Knot_Yeti!~user@unaffiliated/benkay', is identified as user 'ben_vulpes', with GPG key id 2AFA1A9FD2D031DA, key fingerprint 4F7907942CA8B89B01E25A762AFA1A9FD2D031DA, and bitcoin address None
BingoBoingo: I miss Bob Ross
mircea_popescu: i think im too young to know bob ross
Knot_Yeti: so who is this recruiter character?
Knot_Yeti: pahaha mircea_popescu old the notion
BingoBoingo: I saw bob ross and you've got a decade on me MP
Knot_Yeti: *young the notion
mircea_popescu: Knot_Yeti he's some guy working really hard at being halpful. im curious if it ends in tears, despair or great success.
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/38F6DB0.txt )
mircea_popescu: o shoit, bob ross is the guy that "would you like a fresh towel" dude was trying to immitate.
assbot: Road Trip - ALL Rubin scenes - part 2 - YouTube
Knot_Yeti: <mircea_popescu> trustable btc hosting is probably in more demand atm << lotsa this
Knot_Yeti: but uninterruptible power, people on call 24/7, audited security procedures, remote hands...
asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRhmNROtH44 << interesting to students of chemistry as well as noob machinists who would, had they not seen it, mounted Al shaft in PTFE bearing...
assbot: Teflon with aluminum reaction (flash explosion) - YouTube
mircea_popescu: !up frankenmint
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's the worst that can happen
frankenmint: thanks
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the reaction pictured.
mircea_popescu: it's just a flesh wound
Knot_Yeti: flash wound
asciilifeform: flesh is cheap, fine machinery - costly.
asciilifeform: (there is always - more flesh.)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Today I had to explain my secret sauce for preserving great editions
mircea_popescu: decimation: 'peripheral' laser scanner << you mean the handheld shits ?
mircea_popescu: frankenmint sure. how goes ?
frankenmint: chillin whatchin chocolat
assbot: So you think you're going to start a Bitcoin business, right?
decimation: mircea_popescu: yeah the little 'pen' devices
frankenmint: found that felt like a loser for not doing a otc trade yet
mircea_popescu: decimation: it's true, I miss the contrast ratio for one thing << what i miss most about crts, believe it or not, is the shade.
mircea_popescu: a crt you can adjust to be as unluminous as you'd like. a lcd, no. has a minimum.
decimation: asciilifeform: would not want to breathe that smoke...
asciilifeform: shade >> yes!
mircea_popescu: frankenmint :p
decimation: mircea_popescu: yeah a well-known defect of lcds. supposedly the new led-based displays will overcome this
mircea_popescu: i still have perfect vision, after decades with computors. i credit : a) low monitors and b) large fonts.
asciilifeform: decimation: OLED aging makes crt phosphours look indestructible.
mircea_popescu: well they hope they're fixing that
asciilifeform: lol why would 'they'.
mircea_popescu: prolly with some more rare earths nobody ever heard of and thatdon't really exist
asciilifeform: homo chumpiens isn't meant to keep his iPnohe for longer than a year, or the like.
mircea_popescu: lol homo chumpiens
mircea_popescu: that has staying powers.
assbot: So you think you're going to start a Bitcoin business, right?
asciilifeform: pronounce as 'champions' for extra bite.
mircea_popescu: keep upo the good work, he says.
mircea_popescu: decimation: a good sweet watermelon is one of the pleasures of the end of summer << better if it comes with a pair of black girls.
mircea_popescu: or was it the girl with a pair of melons
mircea_popescu: hum. getting old, bad memory.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that fellow grew a 15kg watermelon.
decimation: I miss the little wire shadows on my old trinitron
asciilifeform: i was there, we weighed it...
decimation: asciilifeform: that's amazing
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
mircea_popescu: alaska ?
asciilifeform: nah, here
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: that fellow grew a 15kg watermelon. << Grandpa wasted soil this year on 215 lb-is pumpkin
mircea_popescu: chalbersma: So what's next on this P2Pool server? << oblivion, quite likely.
decimation: specs on trinitron vs. lcd & plasma & dlp http://www.displaymate.com/ShootOut_Part_1.htm
assbot: Display Technology Shoot-Out Part I
BingoBoingo: A great number of groundhogs died for it though.
decimation: lcds have gotten better, just about 3 times worse than a trinitron crt (in its prime) in contrast
RagnarDanneskjol: mircea_popescu - he went to bed - was asking me how to proceed, but I was unavail. I'll invite him again tomorrow
decimation: I suspect that trinitrons are still in use for medical applications where resolution and contrast are critical
Knot_Yeti: decimation: pixel density tho
asciilifeform: decimation: probably all faded now.
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol honestly, may be overkill for this task. it's more of a small potatoes sort of thing to allow some eager kid to get his feet wet and get some ratings
asciilifeform: decimation: 'eizo' and 'barco' make almost usable lcds, for those applications
mircea_popescu: than for someone to try and senior developer all over it
RagnarDanneskjol: thats exactly what he is
RagnarDanneskjol: he's not senior - sent you his resume
asciilifeform owns a few 'eizo'
decimation: ben_vulpes: yeah you are right the resolution on modern lcds is 'better'
asciilifeform: the last trinitron knockoff, afaik, rolled off the conveyor in early '09.
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol i guess that may explain the vague approach. alrighty, we talk more tomorro or w/e, see what he wants to do.
asciilifeform: (somewhere in china, ntsc/pal picture tubes are still made. you don't want these.)
decimation: heh probably no shielding
asciilifeform: 600 lines.
frankenmint: ok irl calls laterz
decimation: I suppose for the paupers who just need a screen cheap crt is cheaper than lcd
mircea_popescu: no it's not ?
mircea_popescu: an extra sq ft of floor space = cost.
asciilifeform can't find a usable crt for $maxint
mircea_popescu: dub: what the fuck is this net slowdown shit << you broke it, you buy it.
asciilifeform: (21+ in., trinitron, virginal)
mircea_popescu: how the fuck are you going to find virginal trinitrons, haven't been made for two decades
decimation: one that was 'new in box' forgotten in some attic?
asciilifeform: don't be so quick to say 'never.' i went recently to a junk peddler, he has a sealed in box 'vic-20.'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00076902 = 8.9975 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: same as the proverbial century-old wine bottles.
asciilifeform: 'how can it exist, someone'd have drunk it up'
dub: mircea_popescu: I saw an ad on bitcoinity and wtfd
dub: appears to be some goog propaganda
mircea_popescu: you don't understand asciilifeform. europe sits on a lake of wine the size of michigan
BingoBoingo: And nao you're going to tell me Agent Broachwala loves the Jewish state in the Levant....
KODE_YETI: <upme_boolcrap> auxiliary wives << redundancy
BingoBoingo: Today canned commenters called Ferguson protesters terrorists
KODE_YETI: asciilifeform: obtain and install << lolya and maintain
assbot: RadiForce GX540 | EIZO
asciilifeform: lol i have that one!
mircea_popescu: nom nom nom
decimation: contrast ratio only 1.2k
asciilifeform: the gov. approval thing is for use in surgeries
decimation: 10x worse than trinitron
BingoBoingo: ;;google hanley blockade terrorists
asciilifeform: that's a bit unfair. trinitron ~= theoretically infinite contrast ratio (save the odd stray electron)
decimation: well, I don't deny that resolution is important too
asciilifeform: (actually never mind, i have an earlier 'radiforce' in other room, 1600x1200)
decimation: but it seems that our 'upgraded' lcd displays lack what we had in the past
KODE_YETI: all i know is pressed shitboard
asciilifeform: the 14-bit monochrome 'eizos' are quite unlike ordinary lcd
asciilifeform: you can use them in a sunlit room, for instance.
KODE_YETI: hey who is upme_boolcrap ?
KODE_YETI: ;;gettrust upme_boolcrap
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user upme_boolcrap: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ben_vulpes&dest=upme_boolcrap | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=upme_boolcrap | Rated since: never
asciilifeform: KODE_YETI: he's b00lcrap
asciilifeform: a fellow i know in meatspace.
KODE_YETI: ah yeah
KODE_YETI: hence keys comments
BingoBoingo: WHY HAS NO ONE ELSE TOLD STORIED ABOUT FBI???
KODE_YETI: you're the only one so cursed
asciilifeform: (or drunken impostor. don't lose keys, people will wonder.)
BingoBoingo: KODE_YETI: I have a masters degree in Library Science. This is not cursed. This is totally fucked by American Standards.
KODE_YETI: oh shit ozbot is totally still online
BingoBoingo: ozbot is.
KODE_YETI: DUDE
assbot: Logged on 22-08-2014 02:36:18; asciilifeform: 'The smell of diborane is known to a few experimenters, but they cannot tell us what it is.'
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> (or drunken impostor. don't lose keys, people will wonder.) << This
KODE_YETI: <decimation> lol you dedicate one screen to emacs :) << i dedicate my largest screen to emacs
KODE_YETI: <decimation> so you 'emerge' once and then do everything else by hand? << asciilifeform u fukn metal
decimation: KODE_YETI: yeah my pinky is starting to ache
KODE_YETI: decimation: capslock remap on os x
BingoBoingo: KODE_YETI: OSX is blaspemy
KODE_YETI: the "command" key on this altop has a hole in its black coating due to meta use
BingoBoingo: OSX is as much blasphemy as the devil
KODE_YETI: BingoBoingo: i just run emacs on whatever, man
BingoBoingo: And by devil I mean systemd
KODE_YETI: "os" be damned, emacs is my os
decimation: KODE_YETI: yeah but my pinky wants to hit shift instead of caps-lock, need to deactivate ctrl key
BingoBoingo: Well, work on emacs chip
KODE_YETI: greenarrays
KODE_YETI: forth -> lisp -> life
BingoBoingo: Work hard.
BingoBoingo: In my field.
BingoBoingo: Bring the cotton out to be sole.
KODE_YETI: i only work when there are $CURRENCY_UNITS on the table
BingoBoingo: KODE_YETI: Then explain VAN
KODE_YETI: lessons learned.
BingoBoingo: KODE_YETI: Can be leanrt maor
KODE_YETI: learn maori
BingoBoingo: KODE_YETI: Sorry I'm working on being trans ethic for useful ethicities
decimation: maori will help you negotiate with the british
KODE_YETI: and i'm working on stumbling home. nite all!
asciilifeform: 'North, north-by-east, nor'-nor'-east, nor'-east-by-north, north-east, colony—Attention! / Come to tea, all the men, round the niu—Attention!'
assbot: Pai Mrire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BingoBoingo: ;;Knicker
gribble: Error: "Knicker" is not a valid command.
decimation: asciilifeform: lol
BingoBoingo: <decimation> maori will help you negotiate with the british << Didn't you hear??? Moiety Starved. Scottish is NOT profitab le..
BingoBoingo: And I just passed 4 liters of fart gas right nao.
BingoBoingo: ;;rate RagnarDanneskjol -3 confusion, correctable. In the interim What the Fuck's Sake
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user RagnarDanneskjol has changed from 2 to -3.
mircea_popescu: later gang.
RagnarDanneskjol: care to elaborate
BingoBoingo: RagnarDanneskjol: Just confusion between parties you've sold pool too and people you've offered to sell pool
BingoBoingo: Margin for clearing this is very low
RagnarDanneskjol: I am not selling anyhting
RagnarDanneskjol: I just identify talent
RagnarDanneskjol: perhaps you misunderstand mu role
BingoBoingo: No, You don't sell things. You sell people.
RagnarDanneskjol: I am doing all this pro bono btw
BingoBoingo: I think I understand, but I may misunderstand
RagnarDanneskjol: yes, I'm sure you do
BingoBoingo: That is incredibly likely. The world is fucked. California is falling off of the world.
RagnarDanneskjol: please explain how I created confusion
RagnarDanneskjol: if you'll read the emails I copied you on I have been quite clear - and ask if any clarification is required...crickets
BingoBoingo: RagnarDanneskjol: I dunno that you aren't trustworthy, I apparently was lead though (prolly by bad actors) to believe though that you are much older than you are.
RagnarDanneskjol: I am 33. Have been a recruiter since I was 18. what the hell does that have to do with it
dub: A similar belief in the mystical power to avert bullets had earlier been reported among Islamic groups in Africa and Asia[7] and America, such as the Ghost Shirt Movement.
RagnarDanneskjol: BingoBoingo - You know for a fact I made efforts to gain better clarity between parties from our pm earlier. All the recruitment I have done for b-a has been out of the kindness of my heart (which is a lot btw in terms of time spent - well over 60 hrs)
dub: where these perchance, other primitave cultures faced with certain defeat in the face of a technilogically advanced imperial invasion
BingoBoingo: RagnarDanneskjol: Much of the present irrelevant doubt, as opposed to relevant doubt connects to harvest of this irrelevant shit\
RagnarDanneskjol: are you drinking?
BingoBoingo: Yes, are you not?
dub: what do we do sahib? idk boss pray shiney sky rocks don't kil us
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1Y3RRJX.txt )
RagnarDanneskjol: ;;rate BingoBoingo -1 erroneous negrating under the influence
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of -1 for user BingoBoingo has been recorded.
dub: RUI?
fluffypony: hah hah
fluffypony: took me a few minutes to get that
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24550 @ 0.00076417 = 18.7604 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17800 @ 0.0007665 = 13.6437 BTC [+] {2}
KODE_YETI: ratings cannot be erroneous
KODE_YETI: and RagnarDanneskjol can't in2 dat variety
RagnarDanneskjol: erroneous in that the reasons cited have no basis in reality. but good point
Apocalyptic: such rating drama
fluffypony: ;:rate Apocalyptic -2832837297193912 just because drama
Apocalyptic: dat fluffypony
Apocalyptic: how's monero these days ?
fluffypony: got it working on FreeBSD
fluffypony: all compiles except gtest that explodes
punkman: I made a bitcent trading XMR, I r tradar nao!
fluffypony: such trade
punkman: fluffypony: there was some pool site that had XMR, but it linked to some bitmonero thing
punkman: what's with all these clones
fluffypony: pool site?
fluffypony: bitmonero == monero, the guy that launched it wanted merged mining and other bullshit, the community voted against it, he tried to put it in anyway, so we forked it away from him into Monero
fluffypony: also because Monero = coin in Esperanto, so Bitmonero literally means Bitcoin
fluffypony: which is kinda stupid
punkman: oic
punkman: mining side looks like botnet heaven
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38300 @ 0.0007668 = 29.3684 BTC [+] {2}
fluffypony: punkman: indeed - although the GPU miners are starting to ramp up a bit
punkman: is it even 50% faster with GPU?
fluffypony: faster yes, but performance-per-watt is really how you want to measure it
punkman: right, aren't the CPUs better in that regard?
fluffypony: and in that respect CryptoNight achieves its stated goal of reducing the performance gap between CPUs, GPUs, and ASICs
fluffypony: for the moment yes
fluffypony: we're not at the upper bound of GPU performance, although we're reasonably close
xmj: fluffypony: how are you getting along with the FreeBSD port? :)
fluffypony: xmj: it's done, it compiles and works, the only thing I'm fighting with are some stupid oddities in the testing code
punkman: are you the guy that funded that kid with the miner optimizations?
xmj: fluffypony: nice!
xmj: fluffypony: did you put it in net-p2p/bitmonero?
fluffypony: punkman: no?
fluffypony: xmj: once I'm done fixing tests and I've committed the changes to master I will
xmj: neat
fluffypony: oh punkman - are you talking about dga?
fluffypony: he's not a kid :)
fluffypony: xmj: cool got it
xmj goes back to fiddling with Subversion
xmj: ...and django, and uwsgi, and $crap
assbot: rpietila Altcoin Observer
fluffypony: "Note that GPUs *do* outperform CPUs, of course -- it's just that it's only a factor of two or three. Which is pretty remarkable. And an ASIC will likely outperform a GPU, but I'm guessing it will be in the ~5x better range, not huge."
xmj: wait.. what?
fluffypony: xmj: Monero's PoW
xmj: ah
xmj goes back to fiddling with stuff... f'realz
punkman: fluffypony: oooh, he was all like "back to school" and I assumed <20
fluffypony: lol I know
fluffypony: oh well, even associate professors at CMU have to make money somehow :-P
punkman: fluffypony: was reading that blogpost again, got an idea. Someone should come up with quirky PoW, and manufacture a hardware miner before launching the coin. Then they slowly ramp up the hashrate, start selling the hardware when profits level off.
fluffypony: 90% of the time when there's a quirky PoW it's inevitably a scam
fluffypony: not all the time
fluffypony: but often
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23200 @ 0.0007622 = 17.683 BTC [-] {2}
fluffypony: xmj: help plx
xmj: with?
fluffypony: ok so I'm trying to create the Makefile
fluffypony: and looking at Bitcoin's one it seems overly complex
fluffypony: I mean, the USE_GITHUB stuff means that I really only need 5 lines, and it builds out the box
xmj: do yourself a favor, use ports-mgmt/porttools
xmj: it has port(1), which can do `port create`, and `port test`
xmj: it used to have port submit, but that died with GNATS and send-pr(1)
xmj: also, i maintain it, so if you find any bugs i can fix them on the fly...:p
fluffypony: lol ok cool
fluffypony: so once it's created how will I submit it?
fluffypony: manually?
xmj: you create a shar like so:
xmj: cd /usr/ports/net-p2p
xmj: shar `find bitmonero` > bitmonero__$version.shar
assbot: Log in to Bugzilla
xmj: and give it some description like [NEW PORT] net-p2p/bitmonero: [include COMMENT= from Makefile here]
xmj: once you're done with that you can assign it to me and i'll take it from there
fluffypony: ok cool
xmj: yup
xmj: before you submit, try `make check-plist` to see if there's anything missing in pkg-plist, and `make package` to see if there's anything that is in pkg-plist that's not actually built into the package
xmj: that's, like, the crashcourse in FreeBSD port maintainership. :)
fluffypony: got it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15972 @ 0.00076522 = 12.2221 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8828 @ 0.00076524 = 6.7555 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: I would very much enjoy reading Mircea Popescu's reply to the letter in this post: http://t.co/MndDYtNb9w < you can imagine the SPANK!
xmj: fluffypony: how good will 30GHash/s butterfly labs ASICs work with bitmonero?
fluffypony: xmj: it won't at all, it's a different PoW
xmj: i see
xmj: friend of mine's got a spare, doesn't know what to do with it
xmj: hm
assbot: Zuger Internet-Unternehmer: Libertre Visionre aus Crypto Valley - Digital Nachrichten - NZZ.ch
xmj: that one points out johann gevers, south african digital crypto stuff entrepreneur
xmj: is he a name one should recognize?
fluffypony: never heard of him
assbot: Monetas – Team
fluffypony: if it's that guy then he's in Switzerland
fluffypony: maybe born in ZA
fluffypony: the only guys in ZA that have done anything notable are the BitX guys, but meh
xmj: but meh
[]bot: Bet placed: 3.00640086 BTC for Yes on "Under 15% difficulty increase before 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1032/ Odds: 97(Y):3(N) by coin, 97(Y):3(N) by weight. Total bet: 10.25130486 BTC. Current weight: 86,761.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00076749 = 7.5214 BTC [+]
assbot: Video: JTAGulator introduction and demonstration | Dangerous Prototypes
assbot: Apple Just Uploaded A U2 Album To Your iPhone And iPad — And Seriously, WTF | TechCrunch
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9100 @ 0.00076749 = 6.9842 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo didja just drunkrate RagnarDanneskjol or what was that
mircea_popescu: dub: where these perchance, other primitave cultures faced with certain defeat in the face of a technilogically advanced imperial invasion << quite. just like the forum retards, the general response of the primitive mind to "o boy, this guy's so much better than you, better learn how to suck cock" is "lalala i can't hear anything"
mircea_popescu: punkman: I made a bitcent trading XMR, I r tradar nao! << dare i ask what xmr is or would that spoil the whole trader thing.
mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 471.6, Best ask: 472.42, Bid-ask spread: 0.82000, Last trade: 472.45, 24 hour volume: 9612.17705410, 24 hour low: 470.1, 24 hour high: 491.0, 24 hour vwap: 481.983602007
punkman: mircea_popescu: that monero thing
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: ASIC will likely outperform a GPU, but I'm guessing it will be in the ~5x better range, not huge. << if this is per watt, wouldn't it be quite huge ?
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: not for CryptoNight, no
fluffypony: CPUs perform well if they have AES-NI
fluffypony: which is most of the modern ones
dub: mircea_popescu: there's also the problem of motivating a guy holding a stick to charge at muskets
mircea_popescu: what i mean is, i'm a kid with a computer, i have to pay $200 for a new video card, and each watt gives me 1 thing. this other kid pays $500 for a consumer asic, each watt gives him... 5 things. the price of a thing will reflect this, going to ~1/4 the price of a watt, making me able to buy a lot more things for my $200 directly than i'd get mining ?
mircea_popescu: dub that's a solved problem, as you describe
mircea_popescu: which explains exactly the adaptive value of idiocy in large groups.
mircea_popescu: that's the problem with the human species : that because we're monkeys, which means we use young men as basically building material
mircea_popescu: idiocy is socially valuable.
mircea_popescu: as individually poisonous as it may be.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: yes - but that's a capex cost, we're discussing the opex cost. At some point in the future when there actually are ASICs I suppose a ratio could be shown that includes the amortised cost of the hardware over time or something
punkman: aren't there plenty off-the-shelf hardware AES implementations?
mircea_popescu: fluffypony but my point here is as to market price, which really rarely reflects opex over capex
fluffypony: punkman: it's not the only thing it uses
mircea_popescu: i mean don't get me wrong, active experimental research in "o yeah, those asics are that cool ?" is quite valuable and a good use of one's time.
mircea_popescu: and i guess if 5x is the best so far then it's the best so far, and that's what it is
mircea_popescu: but i would have suspected 1.5x ish is more the range where it could be borne economically
assbot: Dropbox - cryptonight_tmp.pdf
fluffypony: if you're really interested in the inner workings
mircea_popescu: (this based on history of human tech, the speed of difussion of tech inovations as a function of their added efficiency. for instance the iron plow was about 7-8x more efficient than the shit it replaced, and it took over practically in the same generation. meanwhile longbows were not 2x more effectual over cataphracts, and they took about a century to take over)
punkman: these cryptonote guys seem dedicated to crapcoins: https://cryptonote.org/coins/
assbot: CryptoNote Currencies
punkman: heh step-by-step instructions for forking https://cryptonotestarter.org/inner.html
assbot: CryptoNote currency forking guide
jurov: xmj try altcoin?
mircea_popescu: "It is designed to have zero commercial value since its genesis block is replaced every 2 months." this is a pretty good way to do it, actually.
jurov: with the friend's miner i mean
mircea_popescu: "This coin's enthusiasts contribute to the applied aspects of the CryptoNote technology. It has been launched as a fork of Bytecoin in April 2014. Bitmonero/Monero was subject to a quarrel among the community members on the choice of name. Nevertheless, its contribution is valuable to CryptoNote’s popularization. Moreover, it has the fastest block generation speed of 1 minute."
mircea_popescu: lmao that's relevant i'm sure.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you feel like reading up on all this crap and produce a summary ? but i mean a good one, like a disertation level thing.
mircea_popescu: " but assuming you accept its technical tradeoffs (slow block verification leading to increased susceptibility to block-flooding DoS attacks, in favor of a balance between CPU, GPU, and ASICs)" << stuff like that sounds like a total ouch.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony is your 5x estimate arrived at through some process or just taken from dga ?
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: just taken from dga
fluffypony: the block flooding DoS attack doesn't work with Monero, at least not that we've been able to simulate
mircea_popescu: why is that ?
fluffypony: it's too aggressive in its consensus code
mircea_popescu: can you model this for me ?
fluffypony: it graylists peers that try submit a bad block
mircea_popescu: can i use this to graylist everyone ?
fluffypony: yes, but graylists expire
fluffypony: eventually
mircea_popescu: seems like moving the goalpost, it's still a dos
fluffypony: the point of the DoS is to burn CPU cycles and tie up the CPU of a peer
mircea_popescu: dos is dos, as long as you can't use a service because of a 3rd party it's a denial of service.
fluffypony: if you just want to DDoS them from a bandwidth perspective there are easier ways like LOIC
fluffypony: well that's what I'm saying - the block flooding DoS doesn't work
fluffypony: a LOIC attack woudl work
mircea_popescu: but it does work i nthe sense of, graylist dos.
fluffypony: or a SYN flood even
fluffypony shakes head
mircea_popescu: which way lol
mircea_popescu: i can't see you :D
fluffypony: you can't reconnect as a new IP fast enough
fluffypony: in other words
fluffypony: I have 12 peers connected to me
mircea_popescu: you can't ? (i dunno, i'm asking)
fluffypony: when I graylist you then you have to reconnect to me from a new peer and submit a bad block
fluffypony: rinse-repeat
mircea_popescu: this isn't what i meant earlier.
mircea_popescu: can i craft blocks and announce them so that the entire fucking network ends up graylisting each other
fluffypony: you'll get graylisted
fluffypony: nobody will rebroadcast it
fluffypony: so you get isolated
mircea_popescu: but in the interval where people stil don
mircea_popescu: t know yet if the block is any good ?
jurov: mircea_popescu: so you send bad block to everyone at once, yes?
fluffypony: in the 0.03 seconds it takes the peer to verify the block you won't even have completed the handshake to send another block
mircea_popescu: " technical tradeoffs (slow block verification leading to increased susceptibility to block-flooding DoS attacks"
jurov: everyone is DoSed for 0.03 seconds and you're graylisted
mircea_popescu: fluffypony so are you basically saying he's just talking nonsense ?
fluffypony: no, we theorised that the attack was possible
mircea_popescu: jurov i dunno, i'm trying to clarify this claim.
jurov: fluffypony: what about ipv6? practically unlimited number of addresses
mircea_popescu: fluffypony ok, so if we accept this avenue exists, then a blacklisting scheme would not logically be expected to resolve it, just move the problem.
mircea_popescu: this is a purely logical approach, i have nfi of how it practically works
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: well Bitcoin's solution to the problem is to use SHA2
fluffypony: so that less CPU is burnt
fluffypony: for the same attack
fluffypony: both are equally "susceptible"
fluffypony: so the mitigation is the same
mircea_popescu: so basically you're saying the technical tradeoff in question isn' treally trading anything worth the menton.
mircea_popescu: aha okay.
mircea_popescu: i can arrive at a formulation of what the op thinks that i can integrate, it just takes an op that can answer questions for long enough :D
fluffypony: welcome to b-a :-P
mircea_popescu: thanks i plan to spend a lot of time here
fluffypony: you really should
fluffypony: sometimes there is even pronz in the channel
fluffypony: and indian girls looking for free flight tickets
mircea_popescu: ;;google wolves and bears of my
gribble: Natural Trap Cave: prehistoric lions, dire wolves, and bears, oh my ...: <http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2014/0724/Natural-Trap-Cave-prehistoric-lions-dire-wolves-and-bears-oh-my>; Lions and gray wolves and bears? Oh, my! | News-Gazette.com: <http://www.news-gazette.com/news/local/2014-08-26/lions-and-gray-wolves-and-bears-oh-my.html>; Cougars and wolves and bears...oh my - (1 more message)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19500 @ 0.00076799 = 14.9758 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Judy Garland: Lions and tigers and bears! Oh my! (The Wizard Of Oz, 1939) - YouTube
mircea_popescu: here we go, useless bumgle.
mircea_popescu: lions in the fucking forest. huzzah for all teh lernin'.
thestringpuller: today mircea_popescu exhibits symptoms of amnesia
mircea_popescu: anyway this dga fellow should be here. someone invite him
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.19301957 = 0.9651 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-09-2014#825979 << this is like the first intelligent thing i've seen xmj say, but it is impressive.
assbot: Logged on 11-09-2014 10:10:37; xmj: do yourself a favor, use ports-mgmt/porttools
mircea_popescu: (i mean the whole monologue, not just the one line)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.194815 = 1.1689 BTC [+] {5}
nubbins`: my sides
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.19703837 = 0.9852 BTC [+] {5}
fluffypony: nubbins`: at least they're being useful and helping with cleaning
nubbins`: Swiffer PetJet
nubbins`: another one here somewhere
assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
nubbins`: what's the word for when something is made to look like a human?
nubbins`: tip of my tongue
nubbins`: anthropomorphism
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12650 @ 0.00076749 = 9.7087 BTC [-]
fluffypony: I was going to go for greenpeace
nubbins`: orcapomorphism
nubbins`: wait
nubbins`: orcamorphism?
punkman: aye
mircea_popescu: o hay beautyon_ ! Le never fails to unintentionally entertain, but really, that's one you should prolly blog.
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: http://i.imgur.com/qEfxrXP.gif <<< bwahhah cat magnet
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11593 @ 0.00076749 = 8.8975 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.199 = 0.796 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.22 = 0.88 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.2010101 = 0.603 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 47 @ 0.19315992 = 9.0785 BTC [-] {5}
thestringpuller: when will assbot have !bait
assbot: kolinko +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
mircea_popescu: !up kolinko
mircea_popescu: kolinko np. what brings you here ?
mircea_popescu: (you the appcodes kolinko ?)
kolinko: yes
kolinko: I founded Orisi two months ago (orisi.org) - it's a framework for building smart contracts
mircea_popescu: if you prove that i'll rate you, then you can self voice
kolinko: cool, will do that in a few minutes
kolinko: and I'm thinking of building a bitcoin smart contract for put/call options
mircea_popescu: the contract ain';t the problem there.
kolinko: what's the problem then?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.2319997 = 0.696 BTC [-]
kolinko: (the idea is that a smart contract would be protected by a set of trustworthy individuals - no reliance on a single point of failure)
assbot: MPOE, February 2014 Statement pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: and when you're done with that, to put things in perspective for you, mpex carried about 1mn total btc worth of options over a coupla years.
RagnarDanneskjol: also, 'trustworthy' is rather subjective
mircea_popescu: a "single point of failure" is a trustworthy individual by definition anyway.
kolinko: mircea_popescu - confirmation that I'm the appcodes kolinko: twitter.com/kolinko
mircea_popescu: ;;rate kolinko appcodes guy
gribble: Error: 'appcodes' is not a valid integer.
mircea_popescu: ;;rate kolinko 1 appcodes guy
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user kolinko has been recorded.
mircea_popescu: kolinko id with gribble, pm assbot !up you get voice.
RagnarDanneskjol: oh i see nao
kolinko: mircea: I'll read the misc in a sec. as for your volume - I know it well - I'm your user since 2012 iirc
kolinko: the idea for the distributed contract was that if I want to build a business that relies on options, such a business shouldn't rely on a single individual/company
mircea_popescu: the problem with this approach is that if they're to be trusted they're sops by definition, and vice-versa.
kolinko: well, but if we had a panel of 15 trustworthy individuals, with a consensus of more than 50% of them required to release the fund
mircea_popescu: sybil attacks, and why would they be arsed to care about your needs.
mircea_popescu: these aren't simple problems, and they're unsimple for fundamental reasons, it's not a matter of implementation.
mircea_popescu: circle cvadrature is not a question of "get better draing tools"
mircea_popescu: drawing*
kolinko: well, sybil attack is really only a problem in systems that rely on anonymous parties
kolinko: as for why would be they arsed - for provision/payment of course
jurov: lol how would panel of 15 trustworthy individuals come up with bitcoin vwap to be used for option exercises?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6683 @ 0.00076749 = 5.1291 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: you are wrong in the first. sybil attacks are a problem on all systems that rely on identity to any degree.
kolinko: the same way it happens now with centralised systems?
mircea_popescu: in any form and in any way.
mircea_popescu: and the arsed problem is not something to brush aside. the better your sybil protection, the more expensive their pointless expense.
mircea_popescu: so they won't be arsed.
jurov: kolinko it currently does not happen, that's the problem
mircea_popescu: jurov well... it happened with libor :D
mircea_popescu: lotta trusted parties involved there. lulz.
kolinko: jurov: the idea is that you agree on an algorithm beforehand, and everyone uses the same one
mircea_popescu: anyway, sybil attacks are specifically not a problem in anon systems. if you go for a romp in a gay cinema, to be fucked by a random man, it makes no difference to you who fucks you, so you can't be sybil'd by definition.
kolinko: lol
mircea_popescu: lol all you will, tis true :)
ThickAsThieves: trust is a commodity
mircea_popescu: now, if you want to go back and get diddled by THE SAME GUY AS LAST TIME, you're in for it.
ThickAsThieves: it can be sold out anytime
ThickAsThieves: just sometimes the price aint what it seems
kolinko: what I meant is - if you have a system of 15 parties, each one of them signing messages with their own gpg keys, that can be quite secure against the sybil attack. the attacker would have to steal keys of 8 independent parties.
mircea_popescu: people tend to easily forget what identity means. here it is : =. every time you're using an equality sign, numerical, logical or otherwise you're relying on identity. cuz that's what it is.
kolinko: collution between parties is another matter of course
mircea_popescu: kolinko no, because how do you get the 15 parties ?
mircea_popescu: what if one wants to join ? were they 8 at some point ? 6 ?
ThickAsThieves: collusion + pollution = collution?
mircea_popescu: if god gave us 15 pilars then that'd be that
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves lmao
mircea_popescu: kolinko if you have a process to go from 1 party to two, then you have a sybil problem. and to have 15 you necessarily must have had that process.
kolinko: not necessarily
mircea_popescu: unless you've revolutionized counting, yes.
mircea_popescu: this is fundamental mathematics we're discussing here.
kolinko: you can create the list of 15 all at once. people wouldn't trust the list because they saw it being created. they trust the list, because they can review it one by one, and see that all the individuals are indeed trustworthy
kolinko: in other words - you don't trust the list of 15 people because the list of 14 people said that you should trust it. you trust the list because you can see who's on it, and they look trustworthy.
ThickAsThieves: why are we making lists and giving things to 15 people? i guess i better read the logs, is this OT or something?
mircea_popescu: "all at once" ? what is this.
mircea_popescu: simultaneity in reality ? through what magic ?
mircea_popescu: and anyway, if "you" create it then you're just counting from 1 to 15.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves nah, he's just trying to solve a fundamental problem through implementation and got blindsided by a theoretical exposition of it.
kolinko: you're nitpicking. what I meant is that it doesn't matter who created the list and how. what matters is whether the list really contains gpg keys of the people, and whether the people on the list want to participate
ThickAsThieves: decentralization as an ideal doesnt really exist, it's just a degree of centralization
mircea_popescu: but this also happens to be the definition of a sybil vulnerability.
ThickAsThieves: which in turn is just order against chaos
kolinko: well, every system is breakable. it's just a question of probability
mircea_popescu: hence my comment about them being arsed to put up with the cost of the defense.
mircea_popescu: and for that matter : the spf system is not breakable.
mircea_popescu: this is the main advantage of an overlord that the decentralize fanboys tend to ignore. if you have a good overlord, the system is unbreakable period.
mircea_popescu: not a question of any probabilities.
ThickAsThieves: til a nuke lands on your head at least
kolinko: the problem is that the overlord can disappear at any time
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves but see, if you delete the program, you can't say you've broken the code.
ThickAsThieves: fair enough
mircea_popescu: a system that either works as intended or not at all is the holy grail of unbreakability.
mircea_popescu: kolinko yes.
ThickAsThieves: but arent we discussing sustainability of a system?
mircea_popescu: well it's reasonably unclear what we're actually discussing.
kolinko: as for people being bothered into doing this - it's a valid question, but one that can only be answered by trying it in practice
ThickAsThieves: for me, arguing against centralization as a broad value is silly
mircea_popescu: nah, it can actually be answered in theory too. just, it gets esoteric quickly.
ThickAsThieves: these are just system design factors
ThickAsThieves: not ideals or such
kolinko: what I'm really trying to figure out is whether people would be willing to try such a system
ThickAsThieves: people will try anything if youre wearing the right clothes
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't.
mircea_popescu: but some people might, sure.
mircea_popescu: imo the avenue to this standardisation is, once moloko delivers the registrar of deeds, and if indeed we want to do a lot of option trade,
mircea_popescu: it'll just work from there relying on the wot and that.
mircea_popescu: but really, there doesn't seem to be that much demand for options once the darkpool and bitbet respectively take the slack.
ThickAsThieves: so at first i was frustrated at this 1bTCXE trading challenge because basically what it is is they gave everyone a fake account with half BTC / half USD credits and people are set wild to trade the assets. However, there is no tie to the real market so it's mostly a psychological/economical experiment. In this case, is there theory on how such a market would play out?
mircea_popescu: read up on schelling ?
ThickAsThieves: only light exposure
ThickAsThieves: i know the concept, but how do i see the point?
The20YearIRCloud: mircea_popescu: re : keynesians - they still seem to be popular in the US. Alot worship at the temple
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: tango piece: did you take the creature home as a pet ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform did not. too old.
kolinko: let's say that I wanted to build a business that relies on options... a web wallet that maintains the users' bitcoin balance stable in relation to usd (e.g. I put $100 worth of btc into the wallet, and after a year I'm almost guaranteed to be able to withdraw $100, regardless of bitcoin price)
mircea_popescu: experience shows girl under 30 or so has a lot of trouble reeducating.
kolinko: such a business would require option trading on the backend. but how could it trade options securely, as of today?
mircea_popescu: kolinko either on otc or maybe make bitbet bets.
The20YearIRCloud: kol - it wouldn't be hard as long as you had a option to withdraw the USD
The20YearIRCloud: We've kind of looked at something like that, but offering USD denominated bonds sold via bitcoin
mircea_popescu: or i guess by trading the x.eur delivered future, if you can actually take delivery.
kolinko: bitbet is centralised, and the business would have to rely on bitbet not failing, right?
los_pantalones: the price of the vol on the puts is too high
mircea_popescu: all trade relies on your conterparty not running off. but yes.
los_pantalones: doesn't matter where you source it
kolinko: otc is hard to do automatically/hard to scale, or am I wrong?
los_pantalones: i'll sell to you on whatever platform you want
los_pantalones: but you'll drown in vol premium
mircea_popescu: los_pantalones bitbet is seriously not that expensive. 1% + time value.
los_pantalones: that's a good point, bitbet is your cheapest option
mircea_popescu: it is, yes.
los_pantalones: standard vanilla options much more expensive
kolinko: some good ideas here, thanks :)
jurov: kolinko we did not solve the exercise price yet (which was mpoe's undoing)
mircea_popescu: los_pantalones the eur future is actually even cheaper, arguably.
RagnarDanneskjol: if you must oracle, aristocracy is your best bet kolinko: http://trilema.com/2014/bitcoin-assets-m/#footnote_2_53902
assbot: #bitcoin-assets +m pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: course doing a synth option on a future is fucking tricky.
jurov: how are these 15 people work on untrustworthy data from exchanges?
mircea_popescu: jurov honestly, if you actually had 15 people that were there assembled for merit, not just random derpage
jurov: regardless of you using bitbet or otc
mircea_popescu: i'd rather trust their fixing than exchanges.
mircea_popescu: you know how fixing works right ?
kolinko: well, the most expensive variant would be to rely on humans
mircea_popescu: yes, like with sex and food.
mircea_popescu: the most expensive variant is to get actual sex and actual food.
kolinko: i.e. each of the 15 operators provides the btc price, and the average is chosen after throwing away the extremes
jurov: yes, if these people can back the fixed price then it would go well
mircea_popescu: kolinko read up on fixing. srsly.
jurov: but then that's different thing than some deciding oracle
mircea_popescu: the thing that annoys me most about contemporaneity is that somehow it got convinced nothing pre ww2 ever happened. nfi why. so many excellent implementations of good solutions seem to just vanish in the general knowledge.
mircea_popescu: jurov quite different yes.
kolinko: it's still more secure than trusting a single party to provide the price, isn't it?
mircea_popescu: only if you have a good selection of 15.
jurov: !up mats_cd03
mircea_popescu: like you knolw, two girls are a better fuck than just one. provided they're not insane.
mats_cd03: kolinko: funny enough, thats how LIBOR was pegged. didya catch how LIBOR ended up rigged?
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 i maintain it's free money that did it.
kolinko: :) well, to really break the system you'd need 8 of 15 conspire without the other 7 discovering that
mircea_popescu: kolinko no. the system can break itself, too. it doesn't need a mustachioed antropomorphised enemy.
mats_cd03: what is with you and this magic 15 number. i don't get it
kolinko: mats_cd03 didn't know about that. any link to the story? (or I can google)
mircea_popescu: three times the five talmudic pillars ?
mircea_popescu: one for each form of the trinity ?
kolinko: if you have 100 nobody will be bother to independently verify the list. 5 is too few. also, 15 is a technical limit - the max number of sigs for bitcoin multisig wallet is 15
mircea_popescu: ahahahaaha WHAT
mircea_popescu: holy shit what is wrong with these derps.
mats_cd03: why not 11. come on, it works for the judicial system in the US!
mircea_popescu: "o i know, instead of specifying this "hairball" we keep blaming on satoshi... how about we add... MORE MAGIC NUMBERS!!11"
mircea_popescu: fucktards.
jurov: kolinko again..these 15 say "the price at time T is P becuase.. some bullshit"
jurov: 1000s worth of option exercise based on that
mats_cd03: oops... not 11... anyway.
mircea_popescu: srsly, the "multisig" thing has an arbitrary 15 limit ?
jurov: now you think the price was not fair
jurov: what now?
kolinko: mircea: 15 or 16. would have to check it again. but yeah, seriously
mats_cd03 has forgotten all his American Constitutional Law, even basics
mircea_popescu: kolinko shame on you for seriously thinking of pushing this crap downstream, seriously now.
mircea_popescu: "the limit some idiots put in is 15 so now i'm going to make it part of my brain" ? what is wrong with you!
kolinko: I'm not saying this is the best possible solution, only that it might be the most practical one
mircea_popescu: code in such a way you won't be ashamed to show what you've written to your kids or the woman that may potentially carry them.
mats_cd03: tell me why i would trust even 8 of 15 folks in this system
mats_cd03: and don't fucking say its because there are 15 of them.
kolinko: mats: you'd check the list one by one, and you'd determine that each one of them seems reasonable
RagnarDanneskjol: seems legit
kolinko: and that all of them are quite unlikely to collude
punkman: if only we had 14 spare MPs sitting around
mircea_popescu: punkman you're starting to sound like the girls :D
mats_cd03: unless i have a handler that knows where they live, who their friends are, where their assets are kept, trusting that many individuals seems a tricky proposition. trusting just one is hard enough
kolinko: no trust in the central authority / list creator. you'd see some folks with a high WoT rating, some bitcointalk hero members, some known businesspeople, and of course 8 of them would be us senators.
mircea_popescu: holy shit
mats_cd03: heh hero members
kolinko: :) oh come on, you know what I mean
punkman: 8 US senators?
mircea_popescu: well i guess mpoe-pr was a hero... member.
punkman: stepping up the troll game?
mircea_popescu: punkman barney frank, of "i fuck little boys" fame, comes to mind
mircea_popescu: after all, he recently wrote a mega-piece of us trollery didn't he.
mircea_popescu: well, co-author.
mats_cd03: i can't tell if you're trolling anymore
mats_cd03: 10/10 masterful execution m8
thestringpuller: i need about tree fiddy
kolinko: you wouldn't really need to trust them to handle funds, just for them to be unable to conspire with eachother
RagnarDanneskjol: better to go with british monarchy - at least you can find their parents if all goes to hell
asciilifeform: for them to be unable to conspire with eachother << what'll you do? search their rectums for radios, then build each into own oubliette ?
mircea_popescu: yeah, a system with charles and barney frank.
mircea_popescu: no this is starting to sound better and better. i hope they make a mars lander.
mircea_popescu: could that nut with virgin be part of it too ? he is a businessman, after a fashion.
mircea_popescu: he knows how to make a small fortune out of things, provided he has a large one to start with.
kolinko: it's not about creating a system that's impossible to cheat, it's about creating a system that's too hard to cheat
jurov: i'd vouch for assbot to be included
jurov: the most trusted bot in the WoT
mircea_popescu: kolinko you're so far making a system that's too hard not to laugh at.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 8 @ 0.24218749 = 1.9375 BTC [+] {2}
mats_cd03: https://www.iacr.org/archive/crypto2001/21390001.pdf an oldie but still good. 'on the impossibility of obfuscating programs.'
mircea_popescu: los_pantalones let me guess, the situation is that calls you don't really know how to price and so don't really want to sell and puts you can price perfectly well and nobody can afford ?
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 nu-uh, there's ioncube!
kolinko: did you read a piece by Gavin on bit-thereum? http://gavintech.blogspot.com/2014/06/bit-thereum.html - he's arguing for a similar thing
assbot: GavinTech: Bit-thereum
kolinko: (a proof by authority: yay! )
mircea_popescu: well gavin doesn't enjoy much of a reputation for a thinker around here, but let's see.
mats_cd03: b-b-but, my brain work g-g-good...
mod6: t-t-t-today Junior!
mircea_popescu: meh. guy's just jotting down random thoughts. they are pretty broken, but can't judge one on that. anyway.
assbot: SNAP! - World in my Hands - YouTube
mircea_popescu: anyway, ThickAsThieves The Strategy of Conflict, old book.
mircea_popescu: doubt you read it, prolly exactly what you're looking for re the btcxe thing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7200 @ 0.00076808 = 5.5302 BTC [+]
mats_cd03: not to be a douchebag, or anything, kolinko, but i am reminded of this American serial Boardwalk Empire
mats_cd03: main character, an old fuck named Nucky, says to a useless subordinate
mats_cd03: 'Shut the fuck up Donny, you're out of your element.'
kolinko: I totally am, that's why I came to you guys to talk and learn
kolinko: "Sucking at something is the first step to becoming sorta good at something" -- Jake The Dog
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol o hey nice, i had no idea it's floating around
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Drunk rating, he tripped the paranoia alarms
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 he has a point, look at all the great discussion he caused.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo well don't drunk rate eh.
mats_cd03: oh wait... i think i'm referencing the wrong thing actually. seppeku.
mircea_popescu: thing is when you rate, you force everyone to evaluate things. some people precache, and do it on the spot, some others will do it over time.
mircea_popescu: consider the discussion with rithm re guruvan earlier.
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 sepukku.
mircea_popescu: can't even speal.
mod6: discussion is good, reading ~900 days of logs is probably a pre-requisite
mircea_popescu: i wonder how long that takes lol.
mod6: lol. can't finish until you start :)
mircea_popescu: actually it's not even 900, only about 500 or so. logs start last year in spring.
mod6: ah, ok.
mircea_popescu: the chan is old enough to have had nefario derping et all, but im not sure that's avail on website
thestringpuller: nefario: "I have this great idea guys. It's called GLBSE"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27894 @ 0.00076811 = 21.4257 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: "If you have any assets you want to list email me!"
mircea_popescu: ;;seen nefario
gribble: nefario was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 50 weeks, 1 day, 19 hours, 25 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: <nefario> Those assets are not listed or traded anymore
assbot: Last 5 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3EJ7Z8Y.txt )
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller brilliantly played, sir.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 11 @ 0.24645726 = 2.711 BTC [+] {3}
mats_cd03: !s muppetlabs
assbot: A Whirlwind Tutorial on Creating Really Teensy ELF Executables for Linux
assbot: Prime Number Hide-and-Seek: How the RSA Cipher Works
mircea_popescu: not bad,
mircea_popescu: dude i had forgotten what a nice ass penny ford has
mircea_popescu: well... had.
RagnarDanneskjol: !up mats_cd03
kolinko: (what's the etiquette if I'm going afk? !down to assbot ? )
mircea_popescu: there's no etuiqueety, we're assholes.
mats_cd03: penny ford, the negress?
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 snap girl, jurov linked it earlier
mats_cd03: good timing, now i feel like an asshole.
mats_cd03: for anyone interested in .mil films or trashcanistan, restrepo + korengal are excellent and worth watching
xmj: moin
xmj: fluffypony: progress is going well, i suppose?
mircea_popescu: !up dooglus
mircea_popescu: o look who's there.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25282 @ 0.00076769 = 19.4087 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 976 @ 0.00076719 = 0.7488 BTC [-] {2}
fluffypony: xmj: had to pause it to do other stuff, will pick it up again tomorrow
fluffypony: but at least it compiles and runs from github
xmj: that's good news!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27700 @ 0.00076812 = 21.2769 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: <+mircea_popescu> kolinko no. the system can break itself, too. it doesn't need a mustachioed antropomorphised enemy. /// glad to see you say so, it's a point often missed in many circumstances. for example, some want to paint USG as a hyper conspiracy and assume all its evil/scammy actions are fully intentional. More likely, it just evolved to be a broken shit in all corners of its
ThickAsThieves: house, nurturing powers like overgrown weeds that now appear to make up the whole lawn.
mircea_popescu: i thought that was my stated perspective all through.
ThickAsThieves: <+punkman> if only we had 14 spare MPs sitting around /// oh lord!
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves imagine if they also had tits.
assbot: X-Class Solar Flare Coming Friday - Slashdot
jurov puts on his tinfoil hat
ThickAsThieves: <+mircea_popescu> anyway, ThickAsThieves The Strategy of Conflict, old book. /// will check it out
mircea_popescu: fun fact : living in argentina confers a lot of immunity to flares :D
mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 320167 | Current Difficulty: 2.7428630902257874E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 320543 | Next Difficulty In: 376 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 11 hours, 45 minutes, and 41 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 29233824168.3 | Estimated Percent Change: 6.58142
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.232 = 2.32 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: does AM even pay divs anymore?
asciilifeform: obligatory:
assbot: Bastard Operator From Hell Official Archive
asciilifeform: 'I turn the page on the excuse sheet. "SOLAR FLARES" stares out at me. I'd better read up on that.'
ThickAsThieves: last div was in March, heh
xmj: asciilifeform: BOFH excuse calendar fortune on terminal opening.
xmj: great fun.
asciilifeform: '"MAGNETS! Wrap your disks up in a pillow case with lots of magnets - Solar Flares hate that." "Wow! Thanks."'
xmj: asciilifeform: fortune /usr/local/share/games/fortune/bofh
xmj: I dare you.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.40997627 BTC to 15`381 shares, 9167 satoshi per share
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 7.33692344 BTC to 1`149`988 shares, 638 satoshi per share
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sovpr0n ?
asciilifeform: (not the 'genuine article,' clearly, but in the spirit of 'ilsa, she-wolf of auschwitz' for germans)
assbot: Movie Ramble: Ilsa She Wolf of the SS.
ThickAsThieves: looks like some gnarly stuff
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 52 @ 0.25111536 = 13.058 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.269 = 0.538 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform lol i guess.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves buncha sexploitations of the 70s, they're all pretty much the same thing.
mircea_popescu: ;;google Blutjunge Verfuhrerinnen trilema
gribble: Februarie 2012 pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/2012/02>; Trilematograf pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/category/trilematograf/>; Martie 2012 pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/2012/03>
ThickAsThieves: get this: "CM was described as a "virtual company” by LTC-Global (and accordingly referred to as such in the CM Business Plan). However, as a matter of English law, CM may be considered a general partnership. If that is the case, then the 'shareholders' of CM - which includes yourself - would all be considered partners. As partners, they would all be jointly and severally liable for
ThickAsThieves: CM's debts, including the 'Bond'. It is therefore possible that 'bondholders' may seek to take legal action against CM's 'shareholders', including yourself, to seek to recover that debt. However, if 'bondholders' accept the restructure plan proposed below, that risk might be mitigated."
ThickAsThieves: it continues to say shareholders get to vote on this move, (not bondholders)
assbot: [BTC-TC] CIPHERMINE.B1 - a virtual corporate bond with a 22% fixed-fiat APR
mircea_popescu: that torturous pseudolegal interpretation has exactly no grounds to stand on.
mircea_popescu: isn't this the "uk busineswoman" of great repute that i "viciously attacked" for "no good reason" last year ?
mircea_popescu: kate/craig wood ?
ThickAsThieves: owes me 150btc
ThickAsThieves: not that i expect to see it
ThickAsThieves: unsure whether legal pursuit would be worth it
mircea_popescu: maybe you could get his "woman of the year in buziness" trophy ?
fluffypony: probably more trouble than its worth
ThickAsThieves: she does seem to have assets
mircea_popescu: or maybe the uk could be forced to pay for having swindled the general public with pointless "women too" bullshit ?
ThickAsThieves: i never intended to hold the bonds long term, it was just a risky trade. btct closed while in the process of selling em off...
mircea_popescu: that's the way these "profits" go.
mircea_popescu: herpy derp, make 1% ten times then lose it all on the 11th pass.
ThickAsThieves: something like that
mircea_popescu: but people generally don't want to believe asshole "single points of failure", because decentralized wisdom tells them "it works just fine"
ThickAsThieves: i wonder if more loss was caused by gov influence to shut down btc exchsnges, than if they remainded open
mircea_popescu: define loss.
ThickAsThieves: customers getting more bitcoins out
ThickAsThieves: as in if bf and btct werent shut down by USG, the lie may have played out to less loss
ThickAsThieves: i suppose itd just be redistribution of whatever actuall btc were in the systems
ThickAsThieves: with no real gain
ThickAsThieves: all i'm saying is if BTCT didnt close i woulda sold them shits!
ThickAsThieves: and then the Bitfunder thing is still a total mystery
punkman: passing the bad doesn't make it disappear
punkman: *bag
kolinko: quick question re: trusted data feeds. is the problem generally in the api/site potentially getting hacked, or the algorithm for a computation of one being suspectible to manipulation? what's the problem with deciding that the btc/usd price is an average of btc-e, bitstamp & kraken, each adjusted for volume?
punkman: kolinko: the problem is all three might misplace their decimal points
ThickAsThieves: it happens
punkman: btw
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.2301 = 0.6903 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: you see glitched trade feeds in an exchange every few mos
punkman: !search orisi
asciilifeform: your isp also may succumb to temptation to nudge a decimal.
punkman: !search oracle
kolinko: punkman:wow, cool, thx
kolinko: thick: but isn't that a matter of a better averaging algorithm construction? e.g. if one of the exchanges is far away, we're suspending the feed until situation resolves (would obviously need to be more elaborate)
mike_c: and what do you do when the biggest exchange goes apeshit and has a price that is 50% different than the others for weeks?
mike_c: oh, wait, this is what happenned
punkman: and the bot is still suspended
ThickAsThieves: it's worse now actually,
ThickAsThieves: any notable movement on any of the 4 or so top exchanges will cause movement on the rest
ThickAsThieves: so one glitch would indeed have implications
kolinko: a failsafe rule for removal that one exchange from the computation?
ThickAsThieves: what if its real?
ThickAsThieves: you gonna dictate the mkt now?
kolinko: or letting trusted humans solve the issue? or a requierement for both parties to figure out the agreement?
ThickAsThieves: people wanna do things like circuit-breakers, and curating the data somehow, it's all shit imo
punkman: kolinko, full circle back to OTC GPG contracts?
kolinko: arbitrage/human interventions work in the real world
mircea_popescu: <ThickAsThieves> i suppose itd just be redistribution of whatever actuall btc were in the systems << bingo.
mircea_popescu: idiots losing their btc ohldings is a net plus for society.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27800 @ 0.00076768 = 21.3415 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: depends who they lose em to
ThickAsThieves: well, youre welcome society, for my earlier transgressions!
mircea_popescu: kolinko> quick question re: trusted data feeds what's the problem with deciding that << you know what wash trading is ?
xmj: KODE_YETI: you around yet?
kolinko: mircea_popescu: will go and read about it
mircea_popescu: the problem of trust is a very long and sensitive chain. creating a 99% functional chain still doesn't create a functional chain.
ThickAsThieves: <+mircea_popescu> you know what wash trading is ? /// still happens quite obviously in btc exchanges
mircea_popescu: as to trusted humans, read up on fixing, as a pricing procedure. it's been explained in the logs a year ago, too
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves and even without the major incentive of gaming a large options operation
ThickAsThieves: the margin and futures scene is heating up tho
mircea_popescu: in all the bad ways.
ThickAsThieves: i watched these new chinese futures a lil and its basically being traded like btc, no real future sentiment at all
kolinko: ThickAsThieves: how is it heating up? where can I track news? (thx for answering all the basic questions)
ThickAsThieves: all the chinese exchanges are no-fee
ThickAsThieves: and now offering bonds
ThickAsThieves: cmon now
mircea_popescu: but hey, why should i worry about that :D
mircea_popescu: we have hard currency, let them fail, what's the problem.
nubbins`: BUT IF THEY'RE NO-FEE....
ThickAsThieves: i wish you offered BTCUSD trading in some capacity
kolinko: arent those exchanges for kids with pocket change and fools?
nubbins`: kolinko remove the word "those"
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i won't without a submissive government, and then it'd be btc/that fiat.
asciilifeform: ThickAsThieves: usd is a 'tar baby'
ThickAsThieves: kolinko its hard to tell real exchange volume
ThickAsThieves: china def fakes/washes
kolinko: makes sense
ThickAsThieves: bfx has some kinda sneaky something going on
ThickAsThieves: often limit orders not filling
mircea_popescu: they imported the icbit software lol
ThickAsThieves: i do like bfx otherwise tho
mircea_popescu: well otherwise what's not to like.
ThickAsThieves: miles better than any other exchange
mircea_popescu: i like mcdonalds otherwise too :D
ThickAsThieves: i think part of the bfx shenanigans lie in how they display one decimal place for USD in orderbook, but allow orders to specify 2 places
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves anyway, if you manage to get through the hoops on davout's exchange you can practically trade the eur
ThickAsThieves: does it haz leverage?
ThickAsThieves: and liquidity
nubbins`: probably the wrong crowd around for this, but any interest in a 2012-funded 25btc casascius coin w/ pgp docs?
ThickAsThieves: interested, sure, just not interested in insane premiums it probably comes with
ThickAsThieves: whats that go for these days?
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves afaik there's a liquidity bot, and im sure you can get better leverage elsewhere.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` it's not really over 100 btc is it ?!
nubbins`: ? nooo
nubbins`: ThickAsThieves: a 25btc coin selling for 10btc? :0
punkman: 10btc premium
nubbins`: oh, heh.
nubbins`: nah, around 28-30 would be more realistic
mircea_popescu: the 14k coin ?
mircea_popescu: not bad.
nubbins`: i think it's just plated
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2014 20:49:27; asciilifeform: turns out that the instrument i proposed for raping casascius coins is available commercially:
ThickAsThieves: those bars and coins are like the best btc investment ever
mircea_popescu: notrly, but anyway
ThickAsThieves: well, i think of the added force the impose to not sell your coins
ThickAsThieves: 100btc gold bars cost what originally?
mircea_popescu: s.mpoe was 2k satoshi originally.,
ThickAsThieves: i guess AM maybe was best rise
ThickAsThieves: .1 to 5.6
mircea_popescu: ;;google trilema history best investments btc
gribble: The best investments in the history of Bitcoin pe Trilema - Un blog de ...: <http://trilema.com/the-best-investments-in-the-history-of-bitcoin>; MPEx : one year of dividends pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/mpex-one-year-of-dividends>; Why you can't invest with Cryptostocks pe Trilema - Un blog de ...: <http://trilema.com/2013/why-you-cant-invest- (1 more message)
ThickAsThieves: mah cookie is borked again
nubbins`: AM and casascius coins were both pretty yeasty investments
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.23013333 = 0.6904 BTC [+] {3}
nubbins`: cas coins, still going up
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 35 @ 0.20150114 = 7.0525 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: i suppose in the end one can count the poroductive btc investments on a hand
mircea_popescu: jd is in there too
mircea_popescu: i suppose satoshi dice too, in a marginal sorta sense "either you sold at a profit or held for no loss" sorta thing
asciilifeform: how are sd and jd more than simple chumpatronic pumps ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the investment side.
mircea_popescu: ie, you could bankroll them
asciilifeform never understood why these needed investment
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26578 @ 0.0007671 = 20.388 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: same as the ancient question 'why does god need a starship'
mircea_popescu: to cover for the risk of ruin.
ThickAsThieves: xbond and nam's bond did ok in the end
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform suppose you run a casino, and i come and play with a dollar.
mircea_popescu: i keep betting all on black and winning
asciilifeform: chance of this, vs. asteroid ?
mircea_popescu: fifty two wins into my streak... what do you do ?
mircea_popescu: matters not. still gotta cover for the bets you make
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4272 @ 0.00076639 = 3.274 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: mp is saying sell dat mpoe!
asciilifeform: what you do << 'what do you do when a shell lands in your trench? jump up twenty metres and scatter yourself around.'
assbot: Bank of England sees Bitcoin fraud risk, deflation danger| Reuters
nubbins`: ThickAsThieves: the edge you have to walk with casascius coins is btc value vs fiat value
ThickAsThieves: Around 60 percent of Bitcoin trading is against the Chinese yuan, 32 percent is against the dollar and 3 percent against the euro, the BoE said. /// see what wahsing does
nubbins`: so far the market has been completely ignoring fluctuations in exchange rates
ThickAsThieves: says reuters
ThickAsThieves: "A significant risk to digital currencies' sustained use (is) that they will not be able to compete on cost without degenerating ... to a monopoly miner, thereby ... exposing them to risk of system-wide fraud," the BoE said.
ThickAsThieves: i wonder if they considered mapping thay logic to themselves
nubbins`: actually, i can't think of any other examples where the value of something in btc steadily increases over time
nubbins`: admittedly, no coffee yet
TomServo: I've wondered about this too - what are the arguments against guns, jewelry, land?
TomServo: art ;)
BingoBoingo: !t m s.wol
assbot: Some are born to endless night.
TomServo: Doh, I missed the 'in btc' part - for shame.
ThickAsThieves: any collectible is at the mercy of its popularity
ThickAsThieves: and scarcity
ThickAsThieves: when i was a kid, the elder generation thought baseball cards were good investments
ThickAsThieves: look at them now
nubbins`: beanie babies
nubbins`: magic cards
ThickAsThieves: they probly dont even keep up with inflation
nubbins`: lots of old coinage, too
ThickAsThieves: after a while, no one gives a shit about Bo jackson
nubbins`: bo knows!
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Fuck you, Bo Jackson is an exemplar.
ThickAsThieves: hey i was a big fan
ThickAsThieves: but yknow
ThickAsThieves: i still have all his cards somewhere i think
ThickAsThieves: one day!
nubbins`: found a box of old hockey cards a couple weeks ago
ThickAsThieves: i think i have a brett hull rookie
nubbins`: i've got bobby hull's autograph on a vuarnet t-shirt!!
nubbins`: ahaha, the 90s
ThickAsThieves: lol $9 card
ThickAsThieves: seems overpriced
TomServo: brett hull rookie is $9?!
ThickAsThieves: the one i have at least, i think, i forget all the opeechee topps variant stuff
ThickAsThieves: i just checked my mtgox account balance, 0.12504189! Score!
nubbins`: sweet, let's spend it on pizza!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28947 @ 0.0007649 = 22.1416 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: The problem with Baseball cards was them emulated the utility of stamps too much, but without understanding why stamps got so expensive for the rarities
BingoBoingo: Stamps, mostly being a tool for money transmission
ThickAsThieves: blowstamps!
BingoBoingo: Seriously
ThickAsThieves: i started with stamps actually
ThickAsThieves: was in the stamp club
ThickAsThieves: and chess club
BingoBoingo: Stamps were basically pre-internet Bitcoin
ThickAsThieves: i was a real cool kid obv
ThickAsThieves: all i really remember about the scene was the famous inverted jenny
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61450 @ 0.00076401 = 46.9484 BTC [-] {3}
nubbins`: heh, speaking of collectibles
nubbins`: ;;view 21426
gribble: #21426 Thu Sep 11 13:50:24 2014 nubbins` SELL 1.0 Radiohead autographed band photo @ 0 BTC (Signed by all members. PM offers. Includes original packaging & letter from W.A.S.T.E.)
nubbins`: see if there's any interest
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 900 @ 0.00060608 = 0.5455 BTC [-] {11}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.19710999 = 1.9711 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: Spain Cracks Down on Bitcoin Gambling Loopholes
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.197 = 1.379 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.19702 = 0.9851 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Exchange algorithm Coinffeine/coinffeine Wiki GitHub
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70800 @ 0.00076836 = 54.3999 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: punkman: cribbed.
assbot: Logged on 30-06-2014 05:21:05; asciilifeform: idea was, you send, e.g. some btc to addr A, in n parcels. low bits of the parcels encode, e.g. an ltc address. to which the corresponding amount of ltc is then sent.
punkman: this is for fiat/btc
punkman: I don't see the purpose of their algorithm
asciilifeform: then uninteresting
asciilifeform: where in what blockchain can you stuff fiat.
assbot: Judge wont release surveillance video of courthouse cop killing defendant | Ars Technica
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1500 @ 0.00059611 = 0.8942 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.197 = 0.985 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 11 @ 0.197 = 2.167 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 93 @ 0.19413978 = 18.055 BTC [-] {2}
The20YearIRCloud: wonder why that is
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1000 @ 0.00058156 = 0.5816 BTC [-] {29}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1000 @ 0.00056001 = 0.56 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves:
mircea_popescu: Around 60 percent of Bitcoin trading is against the Chinese yuan, 32 percent is against the dollar and 3 percent against the euro, the BoE said. /// see what wahsing does << "we read something on a tripod homepage and now believe this is the world"
mircea_popescu: direct result of "i read it on wikipedia"
mircea_popescu: "Citing security concerns, a Utah federal judge is refusing to release courthouse surveillance footage that captured a US marshal killing a defendant during a gang-related trial.
mircea_popescu: The tape's existence, first reported by The Salt Lake Tribune Wednesday, came to public light five months after federal authorities who watched the tape cleared the marshal of wronging. "
mircea_popescu: lmao security concerns indeed. "if anyone not working for the usg found out what we do in thhis here so called "courthouse" they'd prolly set us all on fire"
mircea_popescu: i suppose serbia should bomb the us now.
asciilifeform: serbia's mouth is a little too full of nato cock
mircea_popescu: what, i thought this is socialism.
mircea_popescu: aren't they all equal over there ?
mircea_popescu: have i been lied to omg
asciilifeform: 'some more equal than others' (tm)
mircea_popescu: so serbia more equal than us right ?
asciilifeform: equality coming out of her ears.
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol there's really no need for all these emails.
mircea_popescu: say here if anything, if not not worth saying.
RagnarDanneskjol: sorry - it helps me keep track of things
mircea_popescu: yes, the log does. it helps me too, so.
RagnarDanneskjol: can't attach candidate resumes to logs
mircea_popescu: i do it all the time. "he's x y z looking to k". not really that big a deal.
mircea_popescu: coupla lines should be enough, it's what anyone ever reads anyway.
RagnarDanneskjol: mircea_popescu - to be clear, do you want me to dump all that unit testing data to the logs? or just leave it alone and hope it comes out right?
mircea_popescu: if it;s worth discussing it goes here. if it is not, it is not.
mircea_popescu: email is not a dump.
mircea_popescu: and if you use it like a dump in your general course of business, you're prolly fucking yourself over and not even realise it.
RagnarDanneskjol: i only communicate that which is critical as concisely as possible. sorry, dont know any other hiring managers using irc, so
mircea_popescu: revolutionary huh ?
RagnarDanneskjol: it just seems the unit tests for the bot would be considered flooding the channel
mircea_popescu: it's not nearly as bad as scary it seems.
RagnarDanneskjol: i'm all for it
assbot: Emanuel Cleaver Molotov cocktail: Black Missouri congressman's office targeted.
mircea_popescu: !up tryphe_
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00076697 = 7.8231 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4805 @ 0.00076697 = 3.6853 BTC [-]
FabianB: aha, mpex fixed
FabianB: $mpexstatus
empyex: FabianB: Proxies: mpex.ws mpex.bz mpex.co mpex.biz mpex.coinbr.com Current MPEx GPG-Key-ID: 02DD2D91
empyex: FabianB: MPEx-Status: mpex.ws (1079 milliseconds), mpex.bz (7600 milliseconds), mpex.co (976 milliseconds), mpex.biz (1001 milliseconds), mpex.coinbr.com (982 milliseconds)
empyex: FabianB: Health-Indicators: Homepage: √ MK Depth JSON: √ VWAP JSON: √
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10850 @ 0.00076452 = 8.295 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.17717499 = 0.7087 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5100 @ 0.00076697 = 3.9115 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=5686297&cid=47884135 << "Welcome to America, Canada's version of Mexico."
assbot: CBC Warns Canadians of "US Law Enforcement Money Extortion Program" - Slashdot
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=42&cpage=2#comment-16766 << loltron! flamefest from '09 still going strong. they never, ever get tired.
assbot: Loper OS » Thumbs Down for Clojure
mircea_popescu: FabianB nice tickmarks
mircea_popescu: !up chalbersma
assbot: American shakedown: Police won't charge you, but they'll grab your money - World - CBC News
mircea_popescu: The CBC is warning Canadians about a U.S. program where America law enforcement officers — from federal agents to state troopers right down to sheriffs in one-street backwaters — are operating a vast, co-ordinated scheme to grab as much of the public's cash as they can through seizure laws.
mircea_popescu: rogue state is going to rogue state.
asciilifeform: 'It involves a nationwide network of enforcement agencies (except in the few states that have banned it) that operates with the help of a vast private intelligence service called “Black Asphalt”'
asciilifeform: https://blackasphalt.org << they have a site, yes.
assbot: Black Asphalt - Logan County Sheriff's Department:
chalbersma: I wish that that description was overstating it.
asciilifeform: you can apparently buy... shirts and screw-drivers there.
assbot: goreSSL
mircea_popescu: "When I go on a road trip I always carry enough cash to buy gas to get to my destination should my credit card stop working.
mircea_popescu: I got pulled over in Nebraska and when I was getting my license out of my wallet the officer saw a $100 bill in there and ended up confiscating the $400 I had on me as suspected drug money without ever arresting me or even charging me with a crime.
mircea_popescu: I got a receipt and an affidavit indicating the amount seized and why. I petitioned the court for the return of my money and the court denied me saying that possession of that much cash constituted probable cause of drug activity and that I should be happy not to be in jail for drugs."
mircea_popescu: 400 dollars. herp.
mircea_popescu: are us folk really that poor ?
asciilifeform: http://www.engadget.com/2014/09/09/police-seizure-black-asphalt-network << apparently, 'asphalt' sells subscription to a db of who is best to plunder and where to find them.
assbot: Cops using controversial database to identify search and seizure targets
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> are us folk really that poor ? << Cash averse. Love their plastic
mircea_popescu: so they're really that poor.
assbot: Police training firms teaching helps fuel rise in cash seizures on U.S. highways | The Washington Post
mircea_popescu: well, being a 3rd world shithole is pretty bad, but not knowing it is arguably worse.
atcbot: No data returned from CoinMiner.net
atcbot: [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 1.09 TH/s
atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 285796.47 in 1239 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -84.78
assbot: ESPN.com: Page 2 : Fear & Loathing in America
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5950 @ 0.00076425 = 4.5473 BTC [-]
mike_c: ThickAsThieves: by the way, i did some rounds of correlation analysis. s.mpoe continues to defy explanation. there is certainly no correlation to the exchange rate.
mircea_popescu: mike_c there's always ~some~ correlation. since you did the math anyway, what is it ?
mike_c: i don't know about stand alone, but it is when combined with the exchange rate in any fashion.
mike_c: lower
mike_c: below .1
mircea_popescu: lower than .2 ?!
mircea_popescu: that's rich.
mike_c: looking at any reasonable timeframe it is nothing. I tried to force it. took just the last few months, removed some of the recent dip/spikes, and got it up to 0.5
mike_c: but it was stupid
mircea_popescu: congrats, you basically did ta :D
mike_c: tea leaves came up empty
mike_c: the only surprise to me was just how low the correlation was.
mircea_popescu: i hear you.
mircea_popescu: !up hyhycaptain
hyhycaptain: ns identify 1DmtGhb*^&!
Apocalyptic: probably
mircea_popescu: hyhycaptain change it now, chan is logged.
Apocalyptic: you may want to change that asap
assbot: Logged on 11-09-2014 22:54:38; hyhycaptain: ns identify 1DmtGhb*^&!
mircea_popescu: also separated pws are shitty. no <numbers><letters><symbols> crap.
hyhycaptain: ns release
BingoBoingo: DMT and GHB... tripping balls?
assbot: Russia and the Menace of Unreality - The Atlantic
Apocalyptic: hyhycaptain, is your "/" key broken ?
hyhycaptain: gee yes, and i can't find anything
xmj: jurov: i've seen it before
xmj: jurov: Goebbels would be SO fucking proud.
xmj: or maybe not; they're slavs.
jurov: that's how asciilifeform's conquest works
asciilifeform: proud >> of 'the atlantic.'
jurov: asciilifeform but it's true
jurov: i see here that horrible disinfo leaking from the east
jurov: such as, EU supposedly enforcing a "juvenile justice"
asciilifeform: jurov: how is that disinfo ?
mircea_popescu: assbot> Russia and the Menace of Unreality - The Atlantic << gotta love the english agitprop, this entire "the gauls don't really exist so clearly they couldn't be at the gates" thing.
jurov: that will take kids away from heteros and give them to queers
mircea_popescu: "putin doesn;t understand how the world works"
asciilifeform: jurov: nope. in russia, people have successfully resisted, for the most part, the 'civilized' western notion that the crown has business taking children.
jurov: but whole juvenile justice story is fabricated
asciilifeform: the 'queers' angle is sprayed on by western journarasts.
mircea_popescu: jurov it's only nonsense in the form presented. otherwise, the eu does believe it has jurisdiction over children above and beyond that of the family.
asciilifeform: as does usa.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform usa is just a colony.
mircea_popescu: of course it'd fly along with whatever the french, the english and so forth figure out.
jurov: of course that is how RT works
jurov: takes a grain of EU social care taking children
mircea_popescu: that grain is a grain in my eye.
jurov: mixes it with fear from queers adpting children
asciilifeform: 'prior to Americans' gay rights agitation, Russian gays used to be called “faggots”; now they are being called “American faggots,” and gay rights in Russia have taken a giant leap back.' - orlov
jurov: and now the nocsense is suddenly presented as fact and i have to convince half of my facebook friends
jurov: that such "juvenile justice" does not exist
mircea_popescu: jurov you'll have a hard time wiht it.
mircea_popescu: but yes it does exist : the eu state will, under a multitude of pretexts, steal children.
asciilifeform: so perhaps enemy does not bayonet babies and eat them under white sauce. he merely strangles them humanely and reprocesses into Garboil.
asciilifeform: go convince.
jurov: i indeed have a hard time with your insistence that everything out there is an overactive imagination of western journos
jurov: while putin never lied and never will
mircea_popescu: you mean his or mine ?
jurov: both
mircea_popescu: putin is lying every chance he gets, what.
mircea_popescu: how did i end up giving ~that~ impression for crying out loud.
jurov: you dismissed is as mere agitprop
xmj: jurov: I'm ruthless about russian supporters
mircea_popescu: but it's not what i said. i merely remarked on a particular mental complex, wherein the western agitprop calls things they don't like and can't derride "inexistent" a certain way
mircea_popescu: lemme model this. suppose we go out for a picnic, and suppose we're there with some girls, and suppose a cow comes and shits in our cornmeal pot. and suppose one of the girls goes "oh my!"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it mostly works for the target audience. to most folks in usa, who are literate in no foreign languages, never travel except on official orders, etc. - if not thrown in their face, fact does not exist.
mircea_popescu: me mocking her for the "oh my" lulz doesn't mean i am in favour of cattle shitting in cookpots.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform which is why this is funny.
jurov: anyhow. you both be glad you're living in countries divided by distance and language (more or less) from this shit
xmj: :|
jurov: slovakia is mentioned there for a reason
mircea_popescu: jurov you will note in my case this is not happenstance.
xmj: I'm glad I'm living in a country who has a couple of german tornados stationed in it
mircea_popescu: xmj they're allies you know.
asciilifeform: living where 'this shit' is grown, packaged, and flown out for export is not particularly thrilling either.
mircea_popescu: katyn or auschwitz, what's the big difference.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dude imagine for the sake of science fiction, a putin that didn't lie. like, ever. he'd be spotless like warm milk foam.
asciilifeform likes to show americans 'the venerable ancient Ukrs' - is almost never believed, even when rubbing their nose in primary source
mircea_popescu: they'd prolly flay him alive just for the cognitive dissonance
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what next, a pope that doesn't lie?
mircea_popescu: popes don't lie, they're just infallible and impeccable.
mircea_popescu: next best thing.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1014 @ 0.00054999 = 0.5577 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: i was just venting my worries that this piece of world might not be safe again... obv mircea's lofty assessment "nah, agitprop" or ascii's urks hair splitting is not interesting to me,sorry
asciilifeform: from what?
asciilifeform: waffen ss? red army ?
mircea_popescu: jurov hey, i don't mind, by all means, go ahead.
mircea_popescu: you're probably right, it's not looking all that good.
jurov: when public space is increasingly and inessantly inundated by conspirations
jurov: that won't end well
asciilifeform: ask the conspirators to quit conspiring. that'd have a chance of fixing.
mircea_popescu: time to split, unless you somehow discover some passion for one side or the other and a desire to go to shooting practice.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's like asking girls aged 16ish to stop giggling. yeah, that's gonna happen
mircea_popescu: it's not their cunt asking for a tending that's driving the giggling behaviour.
ThickAsThieves: <+mike_c> tea leaves came up empty /// i guess i was probly only paying attention to price at the time, maybe that was the .5 zone, shortly after my comments it totally decoupled
mircea_popescu: it's just, you know... they'r ebored
asciilifeform: as the anglo empires get swept from the stage, the bantustans they created with heroic strokes of pencil will go away. arabian, soviet, wherever.
thestringpuller: ;;ud bantustans
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bantustan | Literally: The Ghetto, the Worst of Urban Decay, the hardest of the hard hood. A bantustan (also known as black African homeland or simply homeland...
asciilifeform: if you're czech, slovak, pole - and don't relish idea of learning russian - better learn german.
asciilifeform: or chinese.
mike_c: da fuck with that atlantic article. i tried it in 3 browsers and it crashed them all.
thestringpuller: german is not bad
thestringpuller: chinese looks hard
jurov: there's difference between indigenous conspirations like www.universe-people.com and stuff did by state media
jurov: *done
jurov: and i'm done for today
jurov: later!
mircea_popescu: mike_c that's online media v3.0
asciilifeform: one of the more 'high tech' and interesting 'state media' tricks is to spray on a coating of 'conspiratorial Teflon' to an otherwise genuine piece of dirt
asciilifeform: so it doesn't stick to 'right thinking' heads.
mike_c: the atlantic is trying to steal my bitcoin
asciilifeform: !s crank bait
ThickAsThieves: i like that the putin drawing is a scanned bar napkin or sumth
asciilifeform: today is, incidentally, favourite american holiday celebrating this gambit.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's more to this than just that. i've had an intern puit a bunch of trilema articles in reddit, across dozens of different subreddits. NONE stick. they're all "wrong", then the complainants get laughed out, then the matter dies.
mircea_popescu: this teflon phenomenon is a lot deeper.
asciilifeform 's favourite subject in this class.
mircea_popescu: there's a long and growing list of things you can do to a text to make it completely inaccessibl for the "right thinking" person.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there are many applicable 'teflons.'
mircea_popescu: i mean, just a certain tone is enough, subtle subjective positioning is enough
mircea_popescu: "this thing is written as if the soviet party isn't legitimate" < o noes and enough.
mircea_popescu: by now right thinkingness has become an extremely intricate, delicately balanced piece of work
mircea_popescu: western confucianism.
asciilifeform: the example jurov (inadvertently) gave us - is instructive. someone succeeded in 'tefloning' the 'juvenile justice' thing before it entered his brain.
mircea_popescu: i'm still reeling over the realisation that someone, somewhere, thinks im pro russian.
asciilifeform: i doubt anyone could persuade him that phenomenon in question is not a barbaric libel by russian queer-haters.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'logic' presumably being, you must 'go with' the humans or the orcs, tertium non datur.
mircea_popescu: sucks for merlin, he who was here when each was born, and will be here to see them buried.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7195 @ 0.00076108 = 5.476 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, for what it's worth, in my mind the correct approach to this problem is radical, corrosive antiteflon.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what document worth the mention could get any traction on 'reddit' (today's, not circa '07, say) ?
mircea_popescu: the more people saying nigger and proposing rape as a solution to minute problems, the less effectual this teflon process is.
mircea_popescu: it only works in the first place because of a very narrow overton window achieved over decades of lazy prosperity.
mircea_popescu: that needs to be broken, for general welfare.
mircea_popescu: giving in and being polite even to the slightest degree just feeds the nonsense.
mircea_popescu: in contemporary english, it is the duty of any thinking person to be as offensive as the context will carry.
ThickAsThieves: to what end?
mircea_popescu: freedom, of course.
asciilifeform: in the peanut gallery - they say whatever. 'new york times' - won't say 'rapigger'.
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's why i carry a lot of sympathy for BingoBoingo's legal troubles.
mircea_popescu: seems to me he instinctively applied the correct solution from perhaps an untenable position
asciilifeform: if correct solution could be applied from correct position - problem would be lying dead in a ditch, right along with a few thousand fellow problems, similarly perforated.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves when you confront an organised enemy, your options are two. either beat him but preserve his tools, which locks you into ruling in his stead, or else beat him and destroy his tools, which locks you into rebuilding.
mircea_popescu: there's little worse fate than having to take over and continue using with the present tools.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: limonov had a beautiful discussion of this.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> if correct solution could be applied from correct position << true.
ThickAsThieves: i'm not sure if i believe your ideal is more than fleetingly achieved
mircea_popescu: nor orgasm.
ThickAsThieves: i think of it like your movie idea and my ending
BingoBoingo: "Why do you think you can think?"
ThickAsThieves: fleeting is a lifetime for some, i guess that's good enough
asciilifeform: 'Take a look in History, flip through her pages. The first action in revolutions of recent history -- the erection of barricades. They'll smash the cobble stones of the street, dig them out, and block off the road with them. They'll stop cars, buses, fill the street with bricks. And also they'll attack, plunder, raze, and put to the torch the city hall, administrative buildings, presidential palace, parliamen
asciilifeform: t, shops, warehouses. The crowd has - a correct instinct. It would like to destroy the city - the citadel of power of the political and economic kind - the root cause of its travails. The crowd is stopped in its tracks by those who have plans for the city hall, for the presidential palace. We will not stop the crowd.' (Limonov, 'The Other Russia.') - translation mine.
mircea_popescu: the interesting thing here is that no longer is the city hall the seat of power. the irc channel is the seat of power.
mircea_popescu: which means long supressed passion will finally prevail, in a razing of city halls the world has never seen
mircea_popescu: perhaps not since the razing of ur
mircea_popescu: the bloodiest massacre in human history, a million or so killed over a few weeks.
mircea_popescu: a million before the fiat inflation of human population, back when they still had hard people, and a limited supply worldwide
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'Rinduieli' ~= (arabic) 'adat' ?
mircea_popescu: that's datina datini, belive it or not.
asciilifeform: понятия.
mircea_popescu: the difference'd be rinduieli can be rationally defended, datini are not.
mircea_popescu: yeah pony is closer
mircea_popescu: actually it's just about exactly it.
asciilifeform: therewego, cooking with gas.
asciilifeform: is that a 'B' battery ?
asciilifeform: and nice lathework. respekt.
mircea_popescu: obviously a lot of blood, sweat and tears went into that.
asciilifeform: own work ?
asciilifeform: on 2nd look, the blue cylindrical object is a dc motor.
asciilifeform: rotor on bottom, to the right of the lead-screw
asciilifeform: presumably strikes it mid-way through rotation
asciilifeform: or rather, motor only engages when the little rotor touches the screw
asciilifeform: a la old-fashioned school bell.
asciilifeform: to start apparatus, it is presumably given a small clockwise twist while current applied.
asciilifeform: wing nut on lead screw - obviously - sets depth.
asciilifeform: oubliette!
asciilifeform is quite confident in the reverse-engineered scheme above.
asciilifeform: except - object on upper side of motor is a commutator.
asciilifeform: so, no twist start needed.
asciilifeform: goes merrily buzzing on power-up.
mircea_popescu: a well designed little apparatus.
asciilifeform: the fellow who built it may or may not have been a tattooist in russian prison.
asciilifeform: typical scheme of apparatus used there.
mircea_popescu: just about.
mircea_popescu: http://38.media.tumblr.com/f26ac8f8aaa82ec58ed70e3976dfe457/tumblr_mvqutdrHlR1sq388oo1_400.gif << and here's stoya, doing what she does (ie, setting the mark for performance)
asciilifeform wonders - anyone else awake? and had alternate interpretation of gadget pictured earlier?
mircea_popescu: if previously awake - now busy.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which... brb
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26200 @ 0.00075973 = 19.9049 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: do you think there is a way to have an externally chargeable battery as "save" battery on video game cartridges
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: as described earlier
assbot: Logged on 07-09-2014 18:52:57; asciilifeform: it doesn't have to be a coin cell, either. can attach one of, say, these - http://www.ictradenet.com/models_pic/BH2AA-W.jpg - to outside of cartridge. drill a hole, attach terminals to correct spots. won't win any beauty contests, but will work.
thestringpuller: so external ports long with the leads? I'm not well versed in electrical engineering unfortunately.
asciilifeform: snip off original battery holder, note where '+' and '-' were.
thestringpuller: as long as same voltage etc.?
asciilifeform: solder red lead from battery box to '+', black to '-'. first thread wires through hole in chassic (electric drill)
asciilifeform: origial was 'cr2032' ?
asciilifeform: *original
thestringpuller: yes. most probably unless this specific cartridge was an outlier.
asciilifeform: use two lithium (specifically) aa batteries in a common series holder (as pictured.)
thestringpuller: i'm terrified of modifying because this is a cartridge that appreciates in value due to rarity or something
asciilifeform: if kept as collectible - seal it in a bag under nitrogen, why would you play it.
thestringpuller: you speak truth
thestringpuller: i should just buy a Wii-U and get the downloadable version to play for 15 bucks
thestringpuller: seal the original cart in a bag
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29400 @ 0.00075917 = 22.3196 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'muiere' ~= engl. 'give head' ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.17417502 = 0.6967 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.17154857 = 0.8577 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it just means woman. most speakers wouldn't notice the relation and im probably going to get inundated with hatemail in the morn
mircea_popescu: it's an older term, mostly disused, ever so slightly derrogatory.
mircea_popescu: it's vulgar latin, from mulieris.
mircea_popescu: suppoisedly sucking cock (a da [la] muie, contracted to muie) comes from gypsy language, where muie means mouth.
mircea_popescu: but this distinction is you know, what you make of it.
mircea_popescu: the notion that romanian borrowed anything whatsoever from romales is beyond ridiculous anyway. maybe took back whatever the gypos stole at some point, and that at the very most.
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1490&cpage=1#comment-16768 << great masters of not-getting-the-point, at work
assbot: Loper OS » Practical Blockchain Telegraphy.
kakobrekla: !s SHOUTOUT TO #BITCOIN-ASSETS
assbot: 1 results for 'SHOUTOUT TO #BITCOIN-ASSETS' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=SHOUTOUT+TO+%23BITCOIN-ASSETS
kakobrekla: now 3.
punkman: I was playing a bit at moneypot.com (dice thingy), then I saw this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=709185.msg8776834#msg8776834
assbot: MoneyPot.com -- The Social Gambling Game
punkman: is this a scam? "Look there's a fucking system!"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HASH] 1083 @ 0.00141329 = 1.5306 BTC [-] {4}
cazalla: damn, moneypot hooks you instantly
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.17999999 = 0.54 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform using addresses to encode satisfies your criteria, it doesn't have to be amounts
mircea_popescu: which is why the b-a deeds system will use addresses rather than amounts.
asciilifeform: need certain amounts to avoid getting dust-collected.
asciilifeform: can't send nil
mircea_popescu: sure, gotta send some btc.
asciilifeform: or less than $dust lower bound
asciilifeform: plus programmatic generation of addrs with reasonably-secure private keys is gnarly.
asciilifeform: (you want the privates if you want the recycling-loop.)
asciilifeform: *usefully encoded addrs with reasonably secure privates
mircea_popescu: sure, its not free.
asciilifeform: my understanding is that for your application, the payload is very small, and 'shooting coin into the sun' in an open loop system - suffices.
asciilifeform: (garbage dest. address)
mircea_popescu: it's not clear that wasting the tx fees for a very narrow space (ie, the amt) is actually cheaper than wasting the min tx for wider space (the address
mircea_popescu: but anyway, a discussion for other times!
asciilifeform: when blasting into garbage addr, still have to include fee
asciilifeform: so necessarily - costlier.
asciilifeform: but yes, wider space...
asciilifeform doesn't give enough of a damn to crunch the numbers
mircea_popescu: makes 2 of us :)
asciilifeform: one caveat with using addresses - 'decoder' must not rely on the garbage addr's balance never moving on own volition. one might, at any time, end up producing an addr to which someone has a key.
mircea_popescu: kinda the idea, yea.
mircea_popescu: anyway, tomorrow!
TheNewDeal: ;;nethash
gribble: 217919029.299
TheNewDeal: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 320252 | Current Difficulty: 2.7428630902257874E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 320543 | Next Difficulty In: 291 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 16 hours, 36 minutes, and 16 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 29479555603.0 | Estimated Percent Change: 7.47731
ben_vulpes: evening gang
ben_vulpes: just woke up from the post bang nap
ben_vulpes: awwww missed le popescu@
TheNewDeal: how was the bang nap?
ben_vulpes: restorative
TheNewDeal: and the post bang nap?
ben_vulpes: ho ho ho
TheNewDeal: !up decimation
ben_vulpes: clever boy u
decimation: heh thanks
TheNewDeal: everybody gets one
ben_vulpes: condoms
ben_vulpes: now i reek of latex
ben_vulpes: <xmj> ...and django, and uwsgi, and $crap << hey have you ever done anything with uwsgi or gunicorn as a dev server?
assbot: Neo 7N Flight Controller GPS Module with 3 Axis Compass Pixhawk apm 2 6 E | eBay
ben_vulpes: i want to close the gap between traditional django dev with the mangy pie runderper
ben_vulpes: and production with nginx/apache | gunicorn/uwsgi | piecrap
decimation: ben_vulpes: is apache dead to the cool web 2.0 kids these days?
ben_vulpes: uh apche's fine
ben_vulpes: ape cheese
decimation: seems to me that the list of alternatives is growing
ben_vulpes: what else is one to do when the application layer server authors say retarded shit like
ben_vulpes: "THIS IS NOT A WEB SERVER PLEAZE FOAR TO HIDE BEHIND APACHE OAR NGINX PROXY PASS"
ben_vulpes: http ain't so hard
ben_vulpes: you want complicated stupid broken and fucked up beyond all reason? come hang with the asseteers
ben_vulpes: the go situation doesn't even have a production ready wallet
decimation: why is it "popular" then?
ben_vulpes: apache or nginx?
decimation: well, 'go'
ben_vulpes: static types, adequately lispy
ben_vulpes: not "which" python
ben_vulpes: ("which")
mike_c: http is kinda hard. you're exposing yourself to untrusted input from the wild
decimation: not if you serve static pages
mike_c: sure you are
mike_c: still gotta process the http request.
decimation: true, but the universe of possible responses is greatly restricted
assbot: Ragel State Machine Compiler
mike_c: more like shit that can go wrong while making sense of the request itself. grep nginx changelogs for the last four years for plentiful examples
ben_vulpes: first, you must state machine.
decimation: neat ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: ragel is bees knees
decimation: in general protocols are the devil
mike_c: i like hiding behind nginx. igor is smart.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13885 @ 0.00075866 = 10.534 BTC [-]
decimation: even TCP is devilish
ben_vulpes: those russians
ben_vulpes: i heard a rumor that nginx has 0% test coverage
ben_vulpes: and builds are shipped around as tarballs
decimation: I like the idea of sending a single udp packet as a request and receiving a stream of udp packets in reply
mike_c: i printed out the source code 3 years ago and i retype it into each server i want to run nginx on to ensure no problems.
ben_vulpes: when i was 14 i talked my cs teacher into letting me use the first chapter of text from cryptonomicon as my wpm benchmark
ben_vulpes: i think ithat i broke 140
ben_vulpes: which, as others have said, "i don't care about how many characters per minute my programmers can type, but whether they type the *right* characters"
asciilifeform: gps box << curious, why ?
decimation: asciilifeform: for poor man's lab reference, for some rf experiments
asciilifeform: decimation: lab reference of what?
asciilifeform: decimation: you don't get any magical enhancement of short-term clock stability that way.
decimation: the device can be commanded to output pulses at arbitrary frequencies
decimation: which is why I got the tcxo option. the real solution would be to use it to long-term discipline an oxco
decimation: it would be nice to have a 1pps output for time-tagging too
decimation: as for the short-term stability, I want to measure the phase noise with a proper lab instrument
asciilifeform: decimation: get an Rb oscillator on 'ebay' or the like.
asciilifeform: !up decimation
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah that would be an even better solution. One could use my gps module to correct the long-term frequency variation of Rb oscillator
assbot: Giancarlo Stanton Removed On Stretcher After Fastball To The Face
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