Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2014-03-21 | 2014-03-23 → ↓
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49700 @ 0.00094091 = 46.7632 BTC [+]
Namworld: Oh, that text doesn't matter. If it's FUD it doesn't matter either.
Namworld: I'm just referring to US-Russia bitching each other once again, which is actually happening.
Namworld: How serious it gets, not going to speculate on that.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05899999 = 0.118 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06200001 = 0.124 BTC [+]
KRS-One: Word is that if serious sanctions are imposed the Russian economy could crash. Jeez we need to work toward global economic growth and this isnt going to help. Hope at least it will save lives.
chetty: Its a global economy, all these guys are tied together, one economy doesn't go down alone
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 303 @ 0.00313706 = 0.9505 BTC [-] {12}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 886 @ 0.00083169 = 0.7369 BTC [-] {10}
KRS-One: yeah that was more or less my point
dignork: KRS-One when did it happen that economic sanctions saved people lives?
dignork: US is dropping sanctions in hope that people will revolt, and overthrow Putin, surely it will save lives
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 39 @ 0.00315301 = 0.123 BTC [+]
KRS-One: dignork: not debating that..more or less a contrast to using military force..dont look too much into what i'm saying.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22800 @ 0.00094103 = 21.4555 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00094127 = 6.4006 BTC [+]
usaoscoin: where is mirc popesku
B007: sleeping
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 25 @ 0.00625 = 0.1563 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6621 @ 0.00094127 = 6.2321 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1000 @ 0.00315046 = 3.1505 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20750 @ 0.00094177 = 19.5417 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.00093932 = 15.4988 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 56 @ 0.0062889 = 0.3522 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19295 @ 0.00094231 = 18.1819 BTC [+]
dub: !ticker mp s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00082303 / 0.00090392 / 0.00096 (1146822 shares, 1,036.64 BTC), 7D: 0.00079506 / 0.00084304 / 0.00096 (6294202 shares, 5,306.29 BTC), 30D: 0.000745 / 0.00085078 / 0.00096 (29652343 shares, 25,227.87 BTC)
dub: !ticker havelock am1
assbot: [HAVELOCK:AM1] 1D: 0.59000000 / 0.59855272 / 0.62000000 (89 shares, 53.27119209 BTC), 7D: 0.59000000 / 0.61090914 / 0.63900000 (486 shares, 296.90184044 BTC), 30D: 0.45000000 / 0.57221105 / 0.68000000 (3538 shares, 2024.48269555 BTC)
Neil: .d
ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 523 blocks | Estimated Change: 13.0779% in 3d 3h 45m 8s
Neil: Hmm, higher than that I think. The 16% is looking a little close.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12150 @ 0.00094278 = 11.4548 BTC [+] {2}
cazalla: think you'll win Neil?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.59380001 = 1.7814 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25550 @ 0.00094324 = 24.0998 BTC [+] {2}
cazalla: mircea_popescu: is there an archive of logs prior to 26-04-2013?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14800 @ 0.0009417 = 13.9372 BTC [-]
cryptoflood: Hey guys, Never really have chat here before just lurked, but I've been learning the ropes for a while now. Lost my last identity due to learning ignorance. Trying to build my WOT rating back up.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23150 @ 0.0009437 = 21.8467 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7900 @ 0.0009393 = 7.4205 BTC [-]
chetty: hello cryptoflood this tends to be a quiet time of day here
chetty: cryptoflood, maybe spend some time reading the logs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23966 @ 0.00094567 = 22.6639 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.62111065 = 3.1056 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.6213 = 1.8639 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.62149004 = 1.243 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 13 @ 0.62164446 = 8.0814 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.075 = 0.15 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.62158008 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.62169999 BTC [+]
jurov: cazalla, kako said he has them but they need cleaning up
jurov: (i do have some such too)
KRS-One: .bait
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 74 @ 0.07206758 = 5.333 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12050 @ 0.00094098 = 11.3388 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 479 @ 0.00313008 = 1.4993 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 16 @ 0.07200269 = 1.152 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11900 @ 0.00094098 = 11.1977 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19850 @ 0.00094135 = 18.6858 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17100 @ 0.00094491 = 16.158 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: soo what's new.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` maybe just BE nubbins` without a nubbin ?
mircea_popescu: motherfucker twitter changed profile layout
cazalla: jurov: are they online anywhere?
cazalla: nice timing mircea_popescu, do you have logs prior to 26-04-2013?
mircea_popescu: logs of what ?
cazalla: sorry, #bitcoin-assets
cazalla: available online for public consumption?
mircea_popescu: well no inasmuch as they
mircea_popescu: 're my logs
cazalla: fair enough
mircea_popescu: you'll have to bug kako, and probably volunteer a lot of work
mircea_popescu: i don't recall why the chan log only starts from april 2013, but prolly cause lazy
cazalla: perhaps volunteer work is an opportunity to earn some wot
dnivi3: Anyone bought Cryptorush shares?
mircea_popescu: dnivi3 nobody sane.
mircea_popescu: cazalla this is a point.
dnivi3: Seems like I jumped on the train a bit too early thinking that the price would rise (which it did for a little while). I am dumping my shares, can't justify the investment with regards to their shitty dividen.
mircea_popescu: dividends aren't really the chief consideration in investments.
dnivi3: Sure, but their business does not seem to thrive anyways so I'd rather pull out. What do you consider the chief consideration?
VanCleef: i wish there was something decent to invest in
mircea_popescu: Untermyer: Is not commercial credit based primarily upon money or property?
mircea_popescu: Morgan: No, sir. The first thing is character.
mircea_popescu: Untermyer: Before money or property?
mircea_popescu: Morgan: Before money or anything else. Money cannot buy it … a man I do not trust could not get money from me on all the bonds in Christendom.
dnivi3: @micea_popescu: OK, what is that supposed to tell me? @VanCleef: there are some decent funds on Havelock, for example Peta Mine.
VanCleef: isn't petamine just a PMB tho?
VanCleef: therefore bad?
dnivi3: PMB? Not sure what that means, to be honest. Care to explain?
VanCleef: perpetual mining bond
ozbot: The problem with PMBs, ie “Perpetual Mining Bonds” pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
VanCleef: so like each share locks you into a hashrate not a percentage of the companies total hashing power
mircea_popescu: dnivi3 so give yourself time, lots to learn.
dnivi3: Ah, that's true. Hmm, interesting.
VanCleef: thus being worth less as the network difficulty goes up?
dnivi3: Yes, indeed. However, it is not the case though if the mining operation is intending to reinvest (something which PETA intends to do).
mircea_popescu: how is it not true ?
dnivi3: They have a reinvestment plan for the future, to increase their hashrate. 35% of all profit goes to reinvestment for hash power.
ozbot: SEC-Bitcoin, Shadow Banking, Levitt on N.Y. Probe: Compliance - Businessweek
B007: made it into my inbox via google alerts on bitcoin
mircea_popescu: dnivi3 so ?
mircea_popescu: i have a bottle of coca cola. 35% of what i drink goes into buying more coca cola
mircea_popescu: therefore my bottle of coca cola can never be empty.
mircea_popescu: what is this, logic 101 for people that haven't mastered the arrow in flight "paradox" ?
B007: anyway time for bed
dnivi3: I am not quite sure how the arrow in flight paradox relates to this.
mircea_popescu: the fact that they reinvest some portion of the dividends is completely irrelevant.
mircea_popescu: but completely.
mircea_popescu: if they paid out that 35% you could reinvest it yourself.
mircea_popescu: and it'd even be better, because you wouldn't be locked into whatever braindamage they come up with
mircea_popescu: so in this sense, you're just getting 100% dividend, except a 35% portion of it is actually worth less
mircea_popescu: through being restricted.
dnivi3: Interesting. Thanks for the insight. I gotta go!
ozbot: So here’s a problem for you… pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
chetty: A workbook handed out to seventh grade students in Springfield, Ill., states that all Americans must register their firearms in order to have a Second Amendment right.
mircea_popescu: you know what springfield is like ?
VanCleef: In an echo of the Cold War, MasterCard and Visa have stopped processing payments by some Russian banks after the United States issued sanctions over Russia's recent annexation of Crimea.
VanCleef: Putin the next C.E.O of bitcoin
wao-ender: yeah, I read it, would be nice.
HeySteve: Putin tried to get a regional processing centre for credit cards several years back
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 19 @ 0.0061 = 0.1159 BTC [-] {2}
samson_: WTF has Crimea got to do with the US ?
VanCleef: usa just being sooks
VanCleef: lol mircea
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
VanCleef: more i think aboutit my god that whatssapp deal was such a bad buy
mircea_popescu: at least you're not in facebook's shoes
VanCleef: i would rather buy wechat for alot cheaper
FabianB: i don't think tencent would ever sell
wao-ender: let's use telegram instead of whatsapp
VanCleef: heh iunintalled whatsapp already
mircea_popescu: someone actually had it installed ?!
chetty: no wonder people are so clueless about finance
MisterE: So I guess if you'e in a fund that invests in a Russian company you could get screwed f that the Russian holdings are sanctioned...
MisterE: where is the url bot?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34558 @ 0.00094047 = 32.5008 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 9324 @ 0.00310323 = 28.9345 BTC [-] {24}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8272 @ 0.00093849 = 7.7632 BTC [-]
Mats_cd03: Zerohedge is poorly disguised dog shiy
kakobrekla: <mircea_popescu> i don't recall why the chan log only starts from april 2013, but prolly cause lazy < like a year of bullshit isnt enough
mircea_popescu: also a point.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1230 @ 0.0031 = 3.813 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: for bingoboingo and whoever else may care : http://trilema.com/2014/awstats-and-stuff/
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 250 @ 0.0031 = 0.775 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 520 @ 0.0031 = 1.612 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18650 @ 0.00094091 = 17.548 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9500 @ 0.00094224 = 8.9513 BTC [+]
ozbot: Let's talk about BTC.SX and MT.GOX
kakobrekla: at times like these, ban hurts.
Namworld: My antivirus considers Google's DoubleClick cookie as an infected files and keeps deleting it.It classify snooping cookies as viruses.
ThickAsThieves: surely you are a man with IPs at your disposal
Namworld: It seems an apt classification.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00093849 = 0.9385 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00093913 = 0.9391 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: i dont think its even ip restricted
kakobrekla: but i would need to register a sock, thats the issue
ozbot: We have decided to donate 100btc to those who lost funds from mt gox
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.07100125 = 0.426 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: maybe make a sock that isnt a sock, like call yourself Bitcoin Assets
ThickAsThieves: or hell, kakobrekla2
kakobrekla: mebbe, ill see how bad the itch gets
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61999997 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.61999998 = 3.72 BTC [+]
jborkl: That is very generous of them
jborkl: :/
the20year: how thoughtful
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00093913 = 14.8383 BTC [+] {2}
Neil: .d
ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 469 blocks | Estimated Change: 13.4934% in 2d 19h 13m 57s
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1000 @ 0.00093984 = 0.9398 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92517 @ 0.000938 = 86.7809 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00093452 = 2.3363 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27433 @ 0.00093586 = 25.6734 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30350 @ 0.00094245 = 28.6034 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: In response to the argument that Title III provides no explicit provision for disclosures under the present facts, the court noted that "[Title III] does not prohibit all that it does not permit".
mircea_popescu: teh us pseudolegal system is such lol by now.
artifexd: I'm having trouble with http://trilema.com/2014/so-heres-a-problem-for-you/ If there was any bias in the coin, wouldn't that bias show up as a favoring towards heads in the end results?
artifexd: And if there was no bias in the coin, a straight forward flip would be good enough.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7700 @ 0.00094232 = 7.2559 BTC [-]
artifexd: ohstopityou.jpg
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6191 BTC [-]
artifexd: I recoded my test for that change and the results are an even distribution regardless of flip bias. Cool.
artifexd: Unless the bias is 100%, in which case there is no entropy to tap so you can't get any entropy out.
mircea_popescu: artifexd if the bias is 100% you'll discard all sets.
mircea_popescu: in computational terms, the algo doesn't crash, it just never finishes.
artifexd: True. But a generator that never generates can hardly be called a generator.
mircea_popescu: depends if you're discussing it as an engineer or as a computer scientist.
mircea_popescu: neumann was the later, and in that context yes it can.
mircea_popescu: after all, it is generatING.
artifexd: That strikes me as amusing
mircea_popescu: well it should, because it is :D
mircea_popescu: chetty bwahaha
chetty: they got this wrong, the bitcoin should be the bite
mircea_popescu: or the wall.
artifexd: If anyone wants it, here is the code for the Newman fair-izing test: http://dpaste.com/hold/1752001/
artifexd: Change line 9 to vary the bias to your hearts content.
mircea_popescu: but it is neumann you know
artifexd: That may explain why google failed me
mircea_popescu: whoa you don't know the greatest mathematician that ever lived ?
mircea_popescu: defo must read up on him.
mircea_popescu: ;;google John von Neumann
gribble: John von Neumann - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann>; Von Neumann architecture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_architecture>; John von Neumann - CS Dept. NSF-Supported Education ...: <http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/VonNeumann.html>
artifexd: I did discover him in my googling. I didn't expect you to misspell his name though so I though you were talking about someone else
artifexd: *thought
mircea_popescu: i misspelled ?!
artifexd: "Ok, so did you come up with Newman’s method or not ?"
mircea_popescu: well HOW EASY do you want me to makle it ;/
artifexd: I only expect you to be you.
mircea_popescu: on my better days.
nubbins`: so pascale's art school was "donated" a bunch of inks from a local screenprint shop
nubbins`: which they in turn donated to us
nubbins`: about a third of them were usable, the rest (10-15 gallons) aren't fit for use
nubbins`: brought em out to the dump today, and they wouldn't take them because it's commercial waste
mircea_popescu: what was the problem with them ?
nubbins`: so now we have 15 gallons of "donated" ink that's gonna cost us $2-300 to dispose of
nubbins`: really old, starting to separate
mircea_popescu: you can probably reemusify them if you have an old washing machine
nubbins`: they're plastisol inks, PVC particles in emulsion
nubbins`: so uh
nubbins`: nothing i guess
mircea_popescu: do you have an old washing machine /
nubbins`: either way, old inks break down
nubbins`: and no, we don't
mircea_popescu: wel lthen you're stuck.
nubbins`: you can take a quart of old ink and mix it with a power drill for an hour and it's still shit
nubbins`: stuck indeed
mircea_popescu: not that way, that doesn't work.
nubbins`: that's what we get for taking donations without inspecting em first
nubbins`: lesson learned
mircea_popescu: you put it in the tumbler, stuff the tumbler with rags or packing peanuts or w/e to keep the cans flush to the side, then hook it to dry for a while.
mircea_popescu: it'll sort them out.
nubbins`: you're a complicated man
mircea_popescu: what did i do now
nubbins`: impressed me with your knowledge of random things
nubbins`: either way, fuck these inks
mircea_popescu: well that also works.
nubbins`: unfortunately i can't even sneak em into the trash
nubbins`: well. not with a clear conscience
mircea_popescu: you can just pour them into the toilet, one ounce a day
mircea_popescu: take you a month or so
nubbins`: noooo
nubbins`: the seabirds
mircea_popescu: so you time it out
mircea_popescu: you know, like spacing it out but over time.
nubbins`: well, i've gotta get to printing
nubbins`: try to turn this shit day around
mircea_popescu: the seabirds!
nubbins`: fun fact, we dumped raw sewage into the atlantic until 2 years ago
ozbot: Science & Environmental Health Network - Ecological Medicine: Essays
mircea_popescu: probably some phtalate ester or other
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15246 @ 0.00094232 = 14.3666 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 36 @ 0.00305112 = 0.1098 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=525676.0 < check it out, jimothy's being upstaged.
ozbot: Popescu'd need not be a verb nor a discussion. All say aye.., say AYE, "AYE!"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 33 @ 0.003075 = 0.1015 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.0710566 = 1.0658 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.07100124 = 1.42 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28304 @ 0.00094257 = 26.6785 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: for some values of soon
ozbot: Least Authority
artifexd: relevant quote "the Bitcoin network is performing enough computation to generate SHA-1 collisions every 131 minutes!"
mircea_popescu: luckily the uk pound isn't worth the hassle.
only: 45m+ 1 pound coin fakes in circulation
mircea_popescu: that's almost enough to start a fake bitcoin mining farm
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.42564200 BTC to 4`100 shares, 59162 satoshi per share
mircea_popescu: this guy should be covering bitcoin corps.
ThickAsThieves: Popescu'd need not be a verb nor a discussion. So let's discuss!
only: lol
mircea_popescu: guy's worried that all his shady work promoting various scams may land him in hot water.
mircea_popescu: which... who knows, always a possibility.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] [PAID] 2.17250000 BTC to 86`900 shares, 2500 satoshi per share
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 118000 @ 0.0109775 = 1295.345 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: $depth x.idiff.jun
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: X.IDIFF.JUN Bids: []
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: Asks: ['127000 @ 0.0109775']
mircea_popescu: look at that, we're trading.
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 5000 @ 0.0109775 = 54.8875 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 100132 @ 0.0109775 = 1099.199 BTC [-] {2}
ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 454 blocks | Estimated Change: 13.2920% in 2d 17h 27m 5s
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 4.25 * 1.15**7
gribble: 11.305084492
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 4.25 * 1.125**7
gribble: 9.69296371937
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 26868 @ 0.0109775 = 294.9435 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 4.25 * 1.145**7
gribble: 10.9654721643
mircea_popescu: so 14.5% till june
mircea_popescu: $vwap x.idiff.jun
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: X.IDIFF.JUN 1 day: average: 0.0109775 high: 0.0109775 low: 0.0109775 volume: 275393 btc: 3023.1266575 7 day: average: 0.0109775 high: 0.0109775 low: 0.0109775 volume: 275393 btc: 3023.1266575 30 day: average: 0.0109775 high: 0.0109775 low: 0.0109775 volume: 275393 btc: 3023.1266575
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.IDIFF.JUN] 25393 @ 0.0109775 = 278.7517 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 150 @ 0.00326812 = 0.4902 BTC [+] {6}
mircea_popescu: suddenly that 16% bet appears a lot more interesting.
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 4.25 * 1.18**6
gribble: 11.4731051504
asciilifeform: re: hash algos: one could argue that any hash function whose defeat (preimage, etc.) wouldn't sink something major (e.g. btc) isn't worth using.
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 4.25 * 1.16**6
gribble: 10.354684372
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform these days, yes.
asciilifeform: naturally this only applies to cryptographic hashes, rather than checksums
mircea_popescu: ten-twenty years ago there was nothing really major that depended on them so.
asciilifeform: right. but we're in today.
mircea_popescu: most experts are over 50 and don't hang out in the right places, so
mircea_popescu: one can prolly make a living for years just out of that observation.
asciilifeform: i still think it possible that there are competent people, but 'dark matter' because why should they talk.
mircea_popescu: because it's fun, and human.
asciilifeform: no argument
artifexd: For some people, talking is not fun. Or maybe it is, but writing code is orders of magnitude more fun than writing english.
mircea_popescu: possibly because they never bothered to learn english properly.
artifexd: It isn't about the medium. It's about the audience.
mircea_popescu: i never heard of a programmer that judged the languages on the basis of the machines involved.
kakobrekla: alert('whats wrong with the audience here?');
mircea_popescu: "javascript is really cool, it works on every shitty laptop out there"
mircea_popescu: as opposed to "lisp is crap, they only run it on shit"
artifexd: The audience of english is other humans, generally. The audience of code is the machine.
mircea_popescu: the audience is abstracted in either case.
assbot: hey!
mircea_popescu: that's trhe very point of having a language : abstracting the audience.
mircea_popescu: otherwise you'd just carry a soldering iron everywhere.
Ghaleon: solid point
mircea_popescu: and i can't even say it in c++
mircea_popescu: because.... wait for it... c++ IS NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH :D
Ghaleon: as programmers we must rise up now and be better bridges between humans and machines, money is the lifeblood of human energy, thus we must improve as ambassardors
artifexd: Success in communicating via code is much easier to measure than in english. "Did it compile?" vs "Did he/she understand me?"
mircea_popescu: artifexd if you're limiting yourself to successes you can measure you're more likely to become obese than get laid.
Ghaleon: hence the typical irc, leet jerk attitude is bout to be extinct
asciilifeform: 'Did it compile?' << i should hope that you are joking re: this being a standard of success in your work
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 30 @ 0.07148303 = 2.1445 BTC [+] {8}
kakobrekla: but 'did it compile' check is equal to 'did i make any typos' not 'is the code fucking shit'
mircea_popescu: poor artifexd ended up in a shitspot
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla stop fuding and slandering bitcointalk CEOs.
asciilifeform: see also herr dijkstra's aphorism re: bugs
kakobrekla: what did i do nao
mircea_popescu: the time to be kakobrekla'd is never! say aye!
artifexd: Standard of success? No. Measurement? Sure. "Yes compile" is further along than "No compile"
mircea_popescu: Ghaleon as you approach mastery you'll notice the leet asshole is an epic bridge builder type.
Ghaleon: mp, yes, the challenge is finding that person who can build the epic bridges and present the right face... without going insane for long enough
Ghaleon: this community is doing an awesomejob
Ghaleon: your letter to sec was an example of that
Ghaleon: respectable, legally sound, defiant.. yet friendly
mircea_popescu: but im the elitist asshole to end all elitist assholes.
Ghaleon: people can look up to that
Ghaleon: join the club brah
mircea_popescu: i suppose "leet jerk" 8======D "elitist asshole"
mircea_popescu: and by that penis i have represented a proper equality.
Ghaleon: lolz
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 48 @ 0.62805964 = 30.1469 BTC [+] {11}
asciilifeform: |===D - sapper's shovel?
Ghaleon: we had a great article about bit coin archetypes before
Ghaleon: bit coins greatest value is that it is getting people to ask "what is money really" ?
Ghaleon: henry Ford's vision is coming to pass
Ghaleon: as things move forward we will be able to ask "how do people use money really?"
Ghaleon: and get an answer thanks to the blockchain
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 16 @ 0.63 = 10.08 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 64 @ 0.00598292 = 0.3829 BTC [-] {5}
Ghaleon: i have a feeling that carl jung's archetypal mode.. a consdesnded version will give the right person a keen edge going forward
mircea_popescu: "Gilliams received $4 million from Morfopoulous and $1 million from another investor for investment in the STRIPS program. As evidence that the funds were so invested, Gilliams created “a screenshot from Bloomberg Finance showing $1 million worth of U.S. Treasury STRIPS, which Gilliams represented was proof that he had purchased Treasury STRIPS.” A screenshot? He must have been in the virtual office that day. A
mircea_popescu: screen shot is not a confirmation. And nobody investing foundation funds should think it is."
mircea_popescu: " He also “generated a document, which he supplied to a representative of the investors, in which he purported to show a series of $5 million trades, as well as over $100,000 in purported profits on trades during September and October 2010, [but] this document was false.” Anyone can generate a professional looking document on their computer."
mircea_popescu: Gilliams lives an extravagant lifestyle, much of which is depicted in videos filmed by videographers he hired to follow him around. The videos appear on “TLG TV,” which purports to be some sort of reality TV show starring him. A host of such videos still remain on YouTube, although some were deleted from Vimeo. One such video apparently depicted Gillaims “posing with stacks of money on his lap.”
mircea_popescu: apparently they didn't have lambos in fiat yet.
mircea_popescu: (for the rap fans among us : this is some friend of p. diddy's)
asciilifeform: no shortage of trambos though.
asciilifeform: (trabambos?)
mircea_popescu: tra' bimbos!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.00594301 = 0.1189 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.63011 = 1.2602 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.07589959 = 0.3036 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.07589959 = 0.4554 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07589958 = 0.2277 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.00094254 = 2.8276 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00307001 = 0.1535 BTC [-] {4}
benkay: good morning!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 178 @ 0.00555884 = 0.9895 BTC [+] {2}
ozbot: How Deep Learning Analytics Mimic the Mind
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 30 @ 0.0726 = 2.178 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: Arden Elizabeth @ArdenEliz The Future of Self-Improvement, Part I: Grit Is More Important Than Talent (link)
mircea_popescu: Mircea Popescu @Mircea_Popescu RT @ArdenEliz The Future of Self-Satisfaction, Part I: Girth Is More Important Than ta Length (link)
mircea_popescu: i wonder if she takes it well.
benkay: re chetty's zerohedge sanction link "Carney...said. 'I wouldn't, if I were you, invest in Russian equities right now, unless you're going short.'". << is this the great mechanisms of war ratcheting one step further? is the US seriously biting off an economic war with Russia?
chetty: benkay, it sure looks like an economic war is a brewing. It will crash the whole world economy if they keep it up
asciilifeform: 'for many years, most artificial neural network research was focused on networks with a single layer of processing.' wat. !111?111!
asciilifeform: minksy & papert showed that single-layer NN cannot even learn 'XOR'. this touched off the first 'ai winter.'
asciilifeform: i thought everyone knew this.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5750 @ 0.00094278 = 5.421 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: (it's a freshman homework-level proof incidentally)
ozbot: Untitled 1
asciilifeform: incidentally, my first exposure to the problem of RNGs with inadequate entropy was by accident, at uni
asciilifeform: we had a homework of evolving (genetic algo) - rather than, as usually done, 'training' a small NN
asciilifeform: to solve very simple arithmetic problems
asciilifeform: when using '/dev/random' rng (of the time) the bugger took several hours to converge
asciilifeform: but when using a turd downloaded from ? (was it lavarand? or john walker's geiger? wish i remembered) it took minutes.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32984 @ 0.0009431 = 31.1072 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: if you don't adequately 'massage' the state space, you get miserable evolution.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 522 @ 0.00307122 = 1.6032 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1000 @ 0.00305318 = 3.0532 BTC [-] {9}
bounce: so god's grace is in the quality of your RNG?
asciilifeform: nothing mystical about it. poor rng, for the application described above, is like watered gasoline
asciilifeform: objectively poor performance.
asciilifeform: note that this anecdote had nothing to do with cryptography.
asciilifeform: (the usual place where people concern themselves with rng quality)
asciilifeform: (the other being - gambling)
asciilifeform: a shoddy rng ends up 'dwelling' in some portions of the state space
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0589876 = 0.118 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: re: NNs: their present-day niche obscurity is well-deserved. try using it for any application with regular novel inputs, and notice how it 'forgets.'
decimation: asciilifeform you mentioned in the past that you did not care for mechanical hard drives. Does this mean you put a flash drive in your Libretto?
asciilifeform: (recognition problems with fixed sets, like OCR, work great)
asciilifeform: decimation: as a matter of fact, i did.
decimation: how did you adapt to the ancient ide connectors?
asciilifeform: decimation: you can get PATA SSD drives.
decimation: for a premium, as I recall :)
decimation: I like your idea of underprovisioning the drive to leave room for bad flash cells
asciilifeform: decimation: i used a 'Transcend' TS64GPSD330. <$100 at the time.
bounce: or a pata<->cf converter
decimation: I guess capacity isn't an issue here really
asciilifeform: no room for converter
decimation: right
asciilifeform: if you have a libretto, the drive has to fit. exactly.
decimation: as is the case with most laptops
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24271 @ 0.00094235 = 22.8718 BTC [-] {4}
asciilifeform: libretto has the least slack space in the bay of any machine of that period that i've owned.
asciilifeform: back in the day, i found that not one of three different pata<->cf cards would fit.
decimation: that's surprising
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.63499998 BTC [+]
decimation: I wish there were an ssd available that let you examine its innards
asciilifeform: most of them have cheap through-hole solder jobs and protrude almost 1mm
asciilifeform: decimation: most of them disassemble just fine
decimation: no, I mean the firmware
asciilifeform: i dumped 'intel' and 'samsung's ssd fw. ida eats it up like a champ.
decimation: but now that you mention it, they would be a good place to find cheap flash chips
asciilifeform: a little tricky to make sense of what goes on inside, given undocumented regs a-plenty
decimation: what cpu does it use? 8051?
asciilifeform: one was an 'arm' variant, the other, a big-endian mips with a couple of custom cores, if i recall
BCB: mircea_popescu, did Gilliams list on mpex
asciilifeform: forget which was which
decimation: bunnie has a whole post on hacking SD cards
ozbot: On Hacking MicroSD Cards « bunnie's blog
asciilifeform: there was also a fellow who booted linux kernel on the controllers of dead hdds recently
asciilifeform: i experimented with this myself a few yrs ago, but life got in the way
decimation: the microcontroller on board is basically free
asciilifeform: ('the bad dancer is hindered by his arse.' kudos to the kid)
decimation: I was speaking to a greybeard EE last night. He lamented that most compE kids coming out of school want to put a high-end media CPU on embedded projects so they can run java or something stupid
decimation: thus making most of the cost of the development for these things go to firmware
asciilifeform: this wouldn't even be such a problem if it actually worked
mircea_popescu: BCB no ?
asciilifeform: but try getting a sharp 100kHz wave, for instance, out of a 'micro' running java
benkay: "Those concerned about e-waste may (or may not) be pleased to know that it’s also common for vendors to use recycled flash chips salvaged from discarded parts."
asciilifeform: (by toggling pins)
asciilifeform: 'eat recycled food. it's good for the environment, and ok for you!'
decimation: heh exactly
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the guys are retards of prime order, which is why i quoted it.
decimation: Or get weeks of battery life out of a lithium cell
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves is that dope ?
asciilifeform: re: the dope: simply owning the 'pill press' required to stamp the pictured items is quasi-illegal in usa
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.63499998 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: unless you're a 'registered' whatever
mircea_popescu: bounce the thing is, evolution algo looks for fine little hairs on things. bad rng adds hairs of its own. it's as if you'd be having two species fighting it out. often enough the one you're interested in gets overwhelmed
asciilifeform: (ianal, but if i recall, it's not actually illegal, but was ruled 'probable cause' for police search)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nn, "expert systems" and other prime snake oil has long been the substance used to maks government graft.
asciilifeform: this is a well-known fact. the 'ai winters' were merely the flip sides of 'ai summers', bacchanalia of graft of every variety
decimation: of course, NN do work as ascii pointed out
asciilifeform: see, for instance, this:
decimation: just not against problems of the "I don't know what I want" variety
ozbot: Thinking Machines - The Daily WTF
asciilifeform: 'Yes, our office was magnificent and yes, a gourmet chef and her entourage came in every day to cook our lunch. The meals were awesome.'
ozbot: The Rise and Fall of Thinking Machines, Bankruptcy Article | Inc.com
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform freer people would make home candy in the pattern and distribute it to neighbourhood kids.
asciilifeform: re: thinking machines, see mp's 'tin woman' essay.
mircea_popescu: decimation asciilifeform also point out that even a broom shoots once.
mircea_popescu: sure they work. not for everything all the time.
bounce: "hairs of its own"... well, that sort-of works. my understanding was more along the lines of bad RNGs have higher risk of getting stuck in local minima, but anyway. nothing like having and obscure joke get dissected to death.
asciilifeform: this particular broom actually fires small-caliber quite well. in every OCR app, for example.
mircea_popescu: bounce i suspect the statements are homologuous.
bounce: could be
decimation: " According to a press release from the Semiconductor Industry Association (SIA), until 2008, the CBP would snap pictures of the trademarks and other info on suspected counterfeit chips and send the images to semiconductor firms for verification. That stopped with when the Department of Homeland Security implemented a new security policy."
decimation: Because actually inspecting things would violate the rights of the grey-market importers
asciilifeform: decimation: did you see the recent incident with Fluke Corp. ?
decimation: or, to be more precise, hiring and paying competent inspectors is a bridge too far for USG
decimation: no I didn't, what happened?
ozbot: Fluke, we love you but you're killing us. - News - SparkFun Electronics
decimation: did you ever wonder how many TSA agents could identify diddled electronics with their xray machines?
asciilifeform: tldr - fluke corp. has a trademark on... yellow voltmeters. chinese shipment of yellow voltmeters held up at customs, burned.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24900 @ 0.00094421 = 23.5108 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: the next day, they 'apologized' by... supplying a crate of free fluke meters to the victim
asciilifeform: and saying 'we're not the least bit sorry and shall do it again always'
decimation: so, in the land of the free, the USG has granted a monopoly on yellow DMM's and then began enforcing the monopoly using taxpayer funds.
mircea_popescu: gotta support the team.
asciilifeform: there is really no qualitative difference between this and every other 'ip' enforcement action.
decimation: Except, that's exactly what happened with the boston tea party
ozbot: Puddy Paints His Face [Seinfeld] - YouTube
asciilifeform: now, for those who do not know, fluke is one of those remaining outfits that... builds things in usa
asciilifeform: traditionally, if you wanted an 'adult' measurement instrument (multimeter, oscilloscope, etc) you got a fluke or hp (now 'agilent')
asciilifeform: or suffered with chinese crap
asciilifeform: but now, the chinese instruments are quite usable
asciilifeform: and you can even get calibration certificates for them, for some extra cost
decimation: yeah I have noticed a trend here with a variety of electronic products
asciilifeform: fluke, naturally, 'will not go quietly into the good night'
decimation: yeah, but making lame patents isn't going to win in the end
asciilifeform: i doubt that anyone at fluke likes to think about 'the end'
asciilifeform: this incident showed all the symptoms of 'bite of the cornered beast.'
mircea_popescu: decimation why not ?
decimation: well, in this specific case, I think it will be impossible to create a ring of patents that will stop the mongol hordes
asciilifeform: note that this wasn't even a patent case
decimation: It's always going to be more expensive to pay lawyers than to develop a patent-evading version of a device
asciilifeform: trademark. on yellow plastic.
decimation: that makes it even more lame
mircea_popescu: you familiar with the concept of invincible ignorance ?
mircea_popescu: stuffing hands in ears and yelling works "indefinitely".
decimation: well, in the specific case of high-end test equipment, most buyers are not going to be easily swayed by bs
decimation: if they can halve their costs, anyway
mircea_popescu: but there's going to be a corner somehwere the retarded kids gather
decimation: indeed
mircea_popescu: and talk among each other about how "putin is living in a different world"
asciilifeform: the other notable thing was that this was an ultra-low-end product
decimation: they are going to get stem degrees
mircea_popescu: if you ask its citizenry, the us south still lives.
ozbot: The Myth of the Science and Engineering Shortage - Michael S. Teitelbaum - The Atlantic
bounce: loved $article about shenzen though. made me wish for actual EE skill.
decimation: Even in electrical and electronic engineering?an occupation that is right at the heart of high-tech innovation but that also has been heavily outsourced abroad?U.S. employment in 2013 declined to about 300,000, down 35,000 and over 10 percent, from 2012, and down from about 385,000 in 2002. Unemployment rates for electrical engineers rose to a surprisingly high 4.8 percent in 2013.
decimation: what do you say about a "superpower" that can barely employ 300,000 EE's
mircea_popescu: it can employ an infinity of them
mircea_popescu: but it can't turn 100mn ghetto kids into more than 300k passible ee's
mircea_popescu: and about 50mn paralegals of all types.
asciilifeform: there is a 'gresham's law' / 'lemon car effect' at work with the EEs
decimation: that's true
decimation: asian countries will subsidize them to the hilt
mircea_popescu: afaik actualy us-citizen ee's vs total ee's have a worse salary problem than women/men in non-government, actually productive jobs do.
decimation: the talent moves there
asciilifeform: some months ago, i spoke with an EE prof (consultation) at a major american uni
asciilifeform: his several dozen grad students - not one could write a simple program for an embedded cpu.
mircea_popescu: that's not even the worst part.
decimation: that's sad
mircea_popescu: he couldn'rt force them to work webcams naked for a month is the worst part.
asciilifeform: and these people get Ph.D and 'graduate'
asciilifeform: 9 out of 10 india/china
mircea_popescu: ;;google mit battery
gribble: Batteries - MIT News Office: <http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/topic/batteries.html>; Liquid Metal Batteries - Group Sadoway: <http://sadoway.mit.edu/research/liquid-metal-batteries>; Better batteries through biology? - MIT News Office: <http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2013/better-batteries-through-biology-1113.html>
asciilifeform: yes, and this.
mircea_popescu: obligatory link to that being, of course,
decimation: my experience as us undergrad EE about 10 years ago
asciilifeform: but it had the angle of pillorying american undergrads at posh unis
ozbot: MIT graduates cannot power a light bulb with a battery. - YouTube
decimation: 1/3 chinese, 1/3 indian, 1/3 white males
mircea_popescu: "we are the premier engineer and science institution in teh werld"
decimation: grad department (and profs) 80% chinese/indian
mircea_popescu: guy looks like a fucking shaving cream model.
asciilifeform: there's two separate diseases at work
mircea_popescu: at least, yeah/
asciilifeform: the american kids can't xxxx because, well, american schooling, 'diversity', etc. the eastern kids, they, in principle, could
asciilifeform: but won't. because 'i can lift it off the net'
mircea_popescu: im not sure that's a bad thing
asciilifeform: it is in practice almost always a bad thing
mircea_popescu: only absent superivision.
asciilifeform: not for 'religious' reasons, but practical ones
decimation: wrt embedded stuff "lifting off the net" never works well
benkay: all americans are lacking supervision, though.
asciilifeform: with the trend for centralization (everybody but a few weirdos runs 'arm' chips, compiles c/cpp) it 'works'
asciilifeform: for a while, at least.
mircea_popescu: see, if the context is, "be able to power bulb with battery on request or spend the next month poledancing in mumbai"
mircea_popescu: it no longer matters what the kid is lifting off net.
decimation: well, as long as the asians keep shipping those parts
decimation: to be an American today is to put your head deep in the lion's mouth, on the understanding that he won't bite
mircea_popescu: decimation indefinitely extensible. "be able to also design the battery"
mircea_popescu: wrong lion, wrong mouth tho
decimation: yeah you make a good point
decimation: at some point the bills will come due. It's hard to see how the US is going to add much value to anything with only 300k EEs
mircea_popescu: you know the refuge of dying empires
mircea_popescu: they're doing a lot of scholastics.
asciilifeform: i'm certainly not the first to describe this, but u.s. education system 'bit-shifted'. i.e. 'college is the new high school', and thereby it follows that 'phd is the new college'
mircea_popescu: "we are adding the TRUE value to everything through teh social media"
asciilifeform: so in that light, phd students who crib buggy code from stackoverflow and pass it off as a thesis are unsurprising.
benkay: i wish i'd had an education in the classic sense.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform vaugely reminiscent of all the chinese administrative reorganisations
benkay: old books, hard problems, canings, etc.
mircea_popescu: basically the chinese ran all the middle ages on a sort of govt-sponsored us university program
bounce: nothing for it but give yourself one, even if N years late.
mircea_popescu: i'm with the b's. both of em.
asciilifeform: more or less this.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.07270143 = 1.0905 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: if you never learned the skill of inflicting pain on yourself, it might be hard to start though
asciilifeform: perhaps there was a reason for the yoga bed of nails.
mircea_popescu: get a mistress.
decimation: even "biotech" is just a bunch of bs
decimation: from the article: Surprisingly, some of the largest and most heavily financed scientific fields, such as biomedical research, are among those with the least attractive career prospects, as a recent blue-ribbon advisory committee reported to the Director of the National Institutes of Health. "
mircea_popescu: i dun believe much in this masturbatory pain thing
asciilifeform: ;;google phillip greenspun women computing
gribble: Women in Computing - Philip Greenspun: <http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/acm-women-in-computing>; Women in Science - Philip Greenspun: <http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/women-in-science>; Philip Greenspun's Weblog » Women and computer programmers: <http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/philg/2011/03/18/women-and-computer-programmers/>
asciilifeform: 2nd link is it.
asciilifeform: (this is not really about women, but about american academia)
decimation: yeah that's a good article
mircea_popescu: i recall that articxle.
asciilifeform: 'Does this make sense as a career for anyone? Absolutely! Just get out your atlas.'
mircea_popescu: i hate greenspun for having deleted his original discussion of his adventures with "expert vcs"
mircea_popescu: greylock and co
benkay: bounce: that's what i'm working on. -assets has been an intellectual godsend.
benkay: in other news, my user group got kicked from our corporate sponsor's shop next month for a "women in tech event"
mircea_popescu: benkay https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=525676.0 there's one jus' for you then :D
benkay: "great!" i said to the desk operator responsible for scheduling things while I seethed internally.
asciilifeform: 'The first round of layoffs had started. Salaries were frozen. Requests for new laptop computers were being denied. Meanwhile, Handler had an enormous marble archway installed in the atrium of the Carter Ink Building. When a national supercomputer conference was held in Seattle, she decided to stay in San Francisco and commute to Seattle from the swank Stanford Court Hotel. She commissioned a $40,000 logo desig
asciilifeform: n for a CM-5 sweatshirt and then rejected it. While the company was sinking, she focused her attention on putting out a cookbook with recipes from the company's now-infamous cafeteria. Increasingly paranoid, she had a video camera aimed at her personal parking spot and, by some accounts, made people take meetings with her in her parked car. She hired a bodyguard, telling her colleagues that she had received dea
asciilifeform: th threats. Some members of Thinking Machines' board suddenly seemed to realize that the person who had been running the company all those years had no business skills. The board discussed dumping Handler, but she managed to get her biggest enemies there kicked off.'
asciilifeform: (from the 'thinking machines' obituary)
benkay: mircea_popescu: you're not paying me to spend any time at that domain i don't think
mircea_popescu: im sure i don't.
benkay: so let 'em rot.
asciilifeform: benkay: re: 'w. in comp.' - the maggots on the corpse, are not the murder weapon.
mircea_popescu: aptly put.
decimation: at least Mr. Cray had the good sense to die in a car accident
asciilifeform: for instance:
asciilifeform: the uni where i studied 'comp sci' has abolished many of the hardest items in the syllabus (or made them optional)
asciilifeform: i visited recently, to hear a talk, and noticed more girls in one classroom than there ever were in the whole bldg.
mircea_popescu: i had a friend. he was a touch paranoid, so he ended up carrying a bodyguard with him everywhere, in spite of living in a controlled town
asciilifeform: but i don't blame them for the decline
mircea_popescu: (1994-2004 a 300k pop town had exactly 0 murders)
mircea_popescu: eventually he got an electyed position, which gave him a driver.
asciilifeform: 'controlled' as in, say, Chelyabinsk-40 ?
mircea_popescu: he hated being driven around, so his car arrangement consisted of him driving two people about, who had nothing to do.
mircea_popescu: eventually he died, in a car crash, rushing home tired etc.
mircea_popescu: i wanted the obituary to read "at least he had his bodyguard with him" but people thought it's too soon.
asciilifeform: people love stories like this ('mighty hero dies of paper cut')
asciilifeform: e.g. alexander
decimation: yeah perhaps it is still too early for my dark Seymour Cray joke. He was a giant amoung elves
mircea_popescu: anyway, check out benkay ascetically depriving himself of internet lulz.
decimation: http://www.computer.org/portal/web/awards/seymourbio ?Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system.?
ozbot: Seymour Cray Biography
mircea_popescu: the path to pain starts with but a single step!
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Always interesting to see your stats
benkay: internet lulz are cheap, mircea_popescu.
benkay: and those aren't even terribly lulzy!
benkay: pantagruel and gargantua is more entertaining than btctalk.org
benkay: Wooster and Jeeves being far more entertaining on basically every metric.
benkay: written by professionals, acted by professionals...
bounce: I say. In the spirit of expensive lulz, wish I had the spare change to buy up cray and move their headquarters to 4 2nd inf loop
asciilifeform: cray was a titan
asciilifeform: invented (among a hundred other things) 'pipelining'
the20year1: without him we wouldn't have the last starfighter
asciilifeform: as someone who personally had occasion to deal with problems that are not amenable to '1024 chickens,' i miss cray
asciilifeform: who doesn't know the old, unofficial and very alliterative slogan of the (traditional) nsa - 'acres of crays'
asciilifeform: some of the (officially released, not leaked) papers of the latter reveal that crap corp. was 'bailed out' as a 'national seekoority' matter
asciilifeform: *cray corp
asciilifeform: sad thing is, they sell 'chickens' now.
asciilifeform: like everybody else.
asciilifeform: (x86-64)
asciilifeform: perhaps if cray were alive, you could buy 'fpga' the size of a billboard...
mircea_popescu: im bashing the crap corp
asciilifeform: fingers have will of their own.
ThickAsThieves: <mircea_popescu> ThickAsThieves is that dope ? /// is what what now?
mircea_popescu: some round small shits in a pic you linked
ThickAsThieves: oh, I assume so
ThickAsThieves: who knows, kids these days
ThickAsThieves: I;m writing my first blog
ThickAsThieves: having trouble keeping it short
ozbot: Markopolos Letter to the SEC about Madoff | Doug Cornelius - JDSupra
mircea_popescu: if anyones curious to read fiat mpoe-pr cca 2005
mircea_popescu: (of course, the guy was ignored. by the sec and everyone else on the fiat-forums)
ThickAsThieves: i started this writing thinking i wouldnt be a hipster and use footnotes
ThickAsThieves: i was wrong
mircea_popescu: there's a reason footnotes survived three empires.
mircea_popescu: "Yeah I am just messing with your minds and have no actual technical ability. But maybe someone does who is reading my points and maybe they will do something. I am hoping. You see I don't really care how we get the solution, as long as we get one. I am not the young productive programmer that I once was with two good eyes (not very productive since losing one eye and acquiring an apparently progressive, incurable peri
mircea_popescu: pheral neuropathy auto-immune condition caused by an incurable STD which is also morphing into neuropathy every where not just peripheral and causes me chronic fatigue syndrome which causes frequent deliriousness+pain which makes it easier for me to write in a forum than to do the more intellectually sharp+focused work of actual programming... I only get opportunities to program depending on my body maybe every few day
mircea_popescu: s I get a good day).
mircea_popescu: Neuropathy is unpredictable. One minute I am doing fine, the next my face aches, tinnitus (motor in my ear), then suddenly my abdomen, then feet, then can't swallow and have a "fear of imminent suffocation" anxiety attack, feeling that my stomach wants to exit my body, etc.."
mircea_popescu: why is it that bitcoin attracts all the weirdos and assorted cruft refused everywhere
mircea_popescu: what are we supposed to do, erect columbia's statue on riker's island over here ?!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6334999 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17166 @ 0.00094503 = 16.2224 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7034 @ 0.00094618 = 6.6554 BTC [+]
jurov: mircea_popescu: if they accepted me at ibm, maybe i won't be here, too
jurov: what i heard ibm job is much cozier than getting worried for several months if that coinbr contraption is actually gonna fed you someday
mircea_popescu: but in the sense of accident "i'd have been to busy to hear of bitcoin" or in the sense of stupidity ?
jurov: not stupidity, just choosing easier path
mircea_popescu: how shall i put this in better terms.
jurov: but ibm had no part-time position for me, so i said fuck you. i'll try freelancing
mircea_popescu: well but wait.
mircea_popescu: here's the difference : suppose a guy is a carpenter, and he goes to new york. there's no jobs there, so he goes to oregon and makes himself a cabin.
mircea_popescu: that's type one.
mircea_popescu: suppose there's a guy with no profession. he loiters a while in new york but eventually all the beat cops know him so he goes to oregon
mircea_popescu: and he loiters there for a while, not as disturbed.
mircea_popescu: that's type two.
mircea_popescu: now you telling me there's no difference you see here ?
jurov: i'm just telling you why i think non-cruft fails to be attracted to bitcoin
mircea_popescu: greenspun's 4th, linked earlier hehe
mircea_popescu: "This article explores this fourth possible explanation for the dearth of women in science: They found better jobs."
jurov: cannot say anything about the cruft group
jurov: i see surprisingly large part of intellingent people (in sense they can get easily over-average salary) trapped in conspirational mindset
jurov: to them bitcoin looks like another conspiration, i spose
mircea_popescu: gotta pierce that veil.
mircea_popescu: i've had it up to here with in-their-mind slick fucks trying to turn bitcoin into some sort of corporate sales management device.
mircea_popescu: not that they're hard to crush individually, but there's a fucking pipe of them.
mircea_popescu: Part of the answer may be that young people fail to appreciate the risk that they will become more like old people when they are old. The young person sees the old tenured academic, ignored by his younger colleagues in a culture that values hot new ideas, sign up to be on committees. The youngster never asks "This oldster has tenure. He draws the same salary regardless of whether he sits through those interminable bori
mircea_popescu: ng committee meetings. Why would he agree to do it? Why wouldn't he rather be playing squash, riding a horse, flying an aircraft, walking his dog, etc.?" The distressing possibility that the oldster agreed to be on the committee so that he would have a venue in which people would listen to him does not occur to the youngster.
benkay: mircea_popescu: regarding weirdos and cruft - is not everyone else busy running their businesses, tending to their mistresses etc?
Dimsler: lol
decimation: well, academia has been transformed into bureaucratic employment
Dimsler: bitcoin = pyramid scheme
Dimsler: at this point
mircea_popescu: you'd have to be an idiot to structure your business (and especially mistress!) so that you tend to them.
kakobrekla: no, its a triangle of opportunity
mircea_popescu: they should tend to you.
benkay: wait how does the business tend to you?
decimation: what's the difference between the gentleman sitting on a porch waiting for a welfare check and a professor sitting in a committee waiting for a tenure check?
mircea_popescu: for instance by producing ready resources (cash flow, but not just) in disproportion to your actual effort
benkay: mistresses i get, mircea_popescu but the business? does it not take ongoing tweaking and leadership?
mircea_popescu: if you want bread, and i want bread, and you spend an hour and make a loaf
mircea_popescu: and i spend an hour and make forty-nine and a half loaves
mircea_popescu: i'd say my business tended to me worth 48 loaves and change.
benkay: ah.
mircea_popescu: decimation but i suspect pg's point stands from a time before that.
decimation: certainly those who desire attention would be willing to pay to work as a teacher, actor, etc
mircea_popescu: now, obviously, training a new girl or starting a new business will be a net negative
mircea_popescu: but provided you're any good the end result is so far out of proportion to the original that your net negative becomes a rounding error.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24650 @ 0.00094618 = 23.3233 BTC [+]
benkay: ah sorry net negative? even after the time and energy pumped into the new girl or venture?
benkay: strikes me that at a certain point you come out ahead, dishes getting cleaned/loaves getting tendered.
mircea_popescu: reread eh.
decimation: ?SAP is the best thing that ever happened to
decimation: computer people. It appeals to businesses that are too stupid to
decimation: understand and model their own processes but too rich to simply
decimation: continue relying on secretaries and file cabinets,?
decimation: and why are they "too rich" to simply rely on secretaries and file cabinets? fiat loans, fiat bills, fiat life
mircea_popescu: you clearly haven't been in business in the old days.
mircea_popescu: the one affront an old lion could never forget, let alone forgive, would be hiring his secretary away.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 174 @ 0.00591526 = 1.0293 BTC [-] {13}
mircea_popescu: the reason is that do you have any idea what a spider monkey capable of navigating those filing cabinets is worth ?
mircea_popescu: to this day the most respected woman on a hospital floor is she who knows where the binder goes.
mircea_popescu: not she who can take out the pancreas, make a liver out of it and pluck it back in.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 21 @ 0.05897618 = 1.2385 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06200105 = 0.124 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: anyway, let's do the world a favor here
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.0639314 = 0.1918 BTC [+] {3}
peterl: .bait
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.631 = 1.262 BTC [-] {2}
ninjashogun: hi, mircea_popescu
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07589957 = 0.3795 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: yeah it's obvious to me that a good secretary is extremely valuable
decimation: the fact that she might spider through electronic rather than physical files changes nothing
mircea_popescu: you can write a good secretary for bash or perl if your records are digital.
mircea_popescu: analog dusted old binders are as of yet an unsolved problem
ninjashogun: the main reason is that when it takes a minute or to do something, you take more time with it. Same if thre's a physical good. It's why moleskine notebooks contain better diagrams and sketches than legal pads do.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 500 @ 0.00571404 = 2.857 BTC [-] {10}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1028 @ 0.00094618 = 0.9727 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 40 @ 0.06148784 = 2.4595 BTC [+] {12}
mircea_popescu: benkay incidentally, this approach also illustrates what exactly the current "privilege" discussion spearheaded by the socialists is, and why exactly it is braindamaged.
mircea_popescu: "underserved" and "unearned" income are exactly the cornerstone of productive economic activity.
mircea_popescu: they are as much a part of life as hot water and kitchen appliances, and moreover prerequisite to both.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.06449997 = 0.258 BTC [+] {4}
ThickAsThieves: mp, youve got pm
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 25 @ 0.00453907 = 0.1135 BTC [+] {3}
decimation: the question is: who is getting the unearned income and for what reasons?
asciilifeform: always neglected is the question of wtf means 'earned.' i.e. the fellow who faithfully sits through traffic and warms a chair for 8hr/day moving paper from one pile to another, in the popular imagination, 'earns' something.
ninjashogun: hi, asciilifeform
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10826 @ 0.00094747 = 10.2573 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: hi ninjashogun
ninjashogun: I thought about some of the architectural things you point out re cardano. As a practical question, how do we determine the limits of risk compensation arguments?
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asciilifeform: ninjashogun: care to explain?
ninjashogun: For example, it is doubtless true that people who use condoms will have sex in some situations (with unknown partners they're not really sure of) that they wouldn't otherwise.
ninjashogun: But I don't think the Risk Compensation argument is effective against condom use.
ninjashogun: (I mean, for example, in theory you can do a deep check on all of your partners and KNOW they have no STD's and also don't sleep with anyone else othre than you. Condom use lets you have some protection in cases where this isn't done.)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.60251201 BTC [-]
ninjashogun: by deep check I mean you can get to know them deeply, even run medical tests, as well as trust their behavior on a deep level, as you do with your brothers and sisters for example.
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: steve jobs was famously asked, some time in '07, why he won't sell a 'netbook'
CheckDavid: My fellow brothers and sisters praiser the lord
asciilifeform: and answered something like, 'if you mean a $300 small laptop, we don't know how to make one that isn't a piece of shit.'
ninjashogun: yes, I know this :)
decimation: ninjashogun are you saying that if the enemy possesses your cardano, then it is suspect?
ninjashogun: he said that the only thing is that it's a bad, cheap laptoop
ninjashogun: decimation, so this relates to an architectural discussion I had with asciilifeform on it. Specifically, a very GOOD reason not to include ANY second factor, not even the most trivial one (such as not writing your name and bitcoin address on the Cardano) is because any second factor will INCREASE the risky behavior in its users.
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assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.059 = 0.295 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: that is approximately what i said, yes.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.06200008 = 0.31 BTC [-] {2}
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, could you continue on your $300 netbook example?
asciilifeform: it is absolutely crucial that a cardano owner fully understand the gravity of his situation
asciilifeform: in the event of loss
decimation: there's no method to gaurantee the integrity of any device that could have been in the enemy's hands
asciilifeform: decimation: correct. i'm glad somebody gets this
ninjashogun: I also agree.
ninjashogun: Integrity is, obviously, right out the window.
decimation: well, then how does checking for std's map to this?
ninjashogun: decimation, the example is actually not about integrity. :)
ninjashogun: decimation, i.e. if it has been in adversary's hands, the result is obviously 0% integrity. What else is the result? I identified a couple of results to asciilifeform (including threat verctor back to PC should it be replaced without the Owner's knowledge)
asciilifeform: let's say that you own a pistol. it gets stolen and replaced without your knowledge for one that: shoots backwards.
mircea_popescu: std's are a very narrowly restricted set of problems
ninjashogun: Both map to STD's. Both reducing the threat vector back to the PC, and reducing the immediate loss without any effort on the part of the enemy, will increase risky behavior.
asciilifeform: before you laugh, the americans actually did this to the vietnamese on a few occasions
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, yes.
asciilifeform: ;;google project eldest son
gribble: Project Eldest Son - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Eldest_Son>; Project Eldest Son – The U.S. Scheme to Sabotage Charlie's Rifles |: <http://militaryhistorynow.com/2013/11/15/project-eldest-son-the-secret-u-s-scheme-to-sabotage-charlies-ammo/>; Project Eldest Son: Covert Ammo Sabotage in Vietnam | Field ...: (1 more message)
decimation: seems like a sound plan
ninjashogun: asciilifeform - let's change the approach slightly. Suppose that the "risk compensation effect" were 500x, and the SLIGHTEST reduction in risk will be compensated 500x by risky behavior.
decimation: nevertheless, I fail to see how this is the ammo manufacturer's problem
mircea_popescu: yet versace purse makers intimately understand why cheap chinese knockoffs are their problem
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, in this hypothesis, clearly it would make the Cardano MUCH safer to physically print the private key on it (ascii-padded) on a piece of paper that is folded a single time and taped to the Cardano. If users MUST do this or there is no way to do this, they will treat the Cardano much more safely.
ninjashogun: "or there is no way not to do this"*
asciilifeform: 'steering wheel spike' is a thought experiment, not a business plan.
ninjashogun: So that is true of a 500x risk compensation psychology. In this case, every Cardano should have a private key easily legibly printed on it for anyone tosee.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, yes :)
benkay: how does this printed key work with the "fry" switch?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, so, how do we determine the difference between Steering Wheel Spike - print the private key on the Cardano for anyone to see - and genuinely sound decisions added for gravity?
benkay: or are you proposing abandoning the fry operation, ninjashogun?
asciilifeform: benkay: it wouldn't, clearly. this is lunacy.
benkay: i'm trying to drag the lunacy out into the open, asciilifeform.
ninjashogun: benkay, yes it's just a thought experiment. Clearly to SOME extent people would treat their cardano's slightly more securely physically if the printed key were on it.
benkay: (kicking and screaming though it may)
ninjashogun: benkay, but you see it would be wrong to do so. That is too much added insecurity.
ninjashogun: even though it would cause people to treat their Cardano's in a slightly more coveted manner.
benkay: if the users of the cardano need the key printed on the outside to incentivize them to treat it carefully, those are the wrong customers for NSA.
benkay: again with this "mass market, make it stupid" SV bullshit.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20600 @ 0.00094635 = 19.4948 BTC [-]
ninjashogun: benkay, not so. This is asciilifeform's current argument for refusing to add any fallout mitigation for stolen Cardano's (including use of a passphrase that gets discarded after a while and memory cycled.).
asciilifeform: in my earlier conversation with ninjashogun, i tried to explain the concept of only solving technical problems that can be solved -well-.
benkay: don't you understand the importance of capturing markets with shoddy products asciilifeform?!
ninjashogun: So under the current Cardano architecture, there is 0 mitigation for even accidental loss, or theft. There is no pass phrase that is possible without rewriting the firmware yourself.
benkay: incorrect.
ninjashogun: Oh, this is what I understood from asciilifeform
benkay: sign the cardano key with your master key, and revoke it when you lose it.
benkay: *wave hands*
asciilifeform: benkay is correct.
decimation: tamper evident seals?
benkay: there's more to it than that, but that's the high-level approach.
ninjashogun: benkay, fair enough :). However if you are not aware that it has been out of your possession for a few minutes or hours this does not help.
asciilifeform: decimation: owner is free to apply his own seals.
ninjashogun: I personally don't like tamper evident seals at all.
ninjashogun: I don't think it's possible to make a true tamper evident device.
benkay: ninjashogun: that's the whole point of "you guarantee physical security, cardano guarantees electrical security."
benkay: if you can't guarantee physical security, the device is useless.
ninjashogun: benkay, I understand this.
asciilifeform: the only seal that is worth anything at all is a custom, preferably invisible one (e.g. perfume, specks of dust) applied by the owner.
asciilifeform: as discussed in mp's essay
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12350 @ 0.00094607 = 11.684 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: likewise, if i applied some magical seal (assume one exists) the buyer is unable to dissect his unit without losing it
asciilifeform: so the effort would be wasted.
asciilifeform: zeroize key is as old as time.
asciilifeform: 19th c. codebooks came with anchors.
asciilifeform: (drop overboard)
benkay: lol anchors
benkay: !t m s.nsa
assbot: [MPEX:S.NSA] 1D: 0.000145 / 0.00015512 / 0.000156 (1000 shares, 0.16 BTC), 7D: 0.0001 / 0.00010918 / 0.000156 (6000 shares, 0.66 BTC), 30D: 0.0001 / 0.0001236 / 0.00021 (79650 shares, 9.85 BTC)
mircea_popescu: they did
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, let me ask you this. Will any Cardano ever be lost or stolen?
asciilifeform: certainly
asciilifeform: just as diamonds, pistols, nukes, are lost and stolen
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, it is a good question because in the case of the Soviety Submarines, it is possible that none will ever melt down due to user error, ever.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, in which case any change to that (by making it "safer") would in fact result in worse effects.
ninjashogun: soviet*
ninjashogun: (asciilifeform had an example of how soviet submarines did not self-regulate their nuclear reactors but always had a person in the loop, who therefore understood the gravity of his situatoin.)
asciilifeform: obligatory:
ozbot: Shall be Delivered | The Whet
ninjashogun: So, if we know, for sure, that in some cases Cardanos will be lost or stolen - is it possible that an architectural change MAY make the Cardano more secure oerall by reducing the immediate fallout from these cases?
decimation: can you propose such a technology? a spike in the steering wheel is not such a precaution.
asciilifeform: ninjashogun: i am sad to say that you appear to have learned nothing from our conversation.
benkay: asciilifeform: do you think this is a case for Hanlon?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I did learn from it, yes. Clearly Risk Compensation is not a law :) :) It is possible to mitigate fallout in some ways without automatically getting an exact compensation.
decimation: it's also obvious that any precautions taken could be bypassed, and thus are worse than features
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, for example if you introduced an architectural change that, as a direct result, meant half of thefts did not result in key becoming accessible to thief - would there be instantly twice as many thefts as a result?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, if only one tenth of thefts actually resulted in the key becoming known to the thief - would there be exactly ten times as many thefts as a result?
Apocalyptic: dafuq am I reading
benkay: Apocalyptic: madness.
decimation: he's a high-functioning troll, as best as anyone can gather
ninjashogun: Apocalyptic, I am trying to understand the architectural trade-offs in the Cardano, and, specifically, why the private key MUST be stored in the plain with no mitigation against loss. (Except key revocation, if the user is aware of it). Why it has to be "fail-dangerous" and not "fail-90% dangeorus"
asciilifeform: decimation: that's the most charitable explanation.
mircea_popescu: tibby is back !?
mircea_popescu: o the shogun guy. ya well...
benkay: ninjashogun: how would you make the key less accesible to an attacker?
ninjashogun: For what it's worth, I'm not a troll and do have some experience with product design trade-offs.
benkay: mircea_popescu: tib's my thesis here.
benkay: ninjashogun: all trolls say "I'm not a troll".
Apocalyptic: ninjashogun, I hope i don't use any products resulting of your experience
ninjashogun: benkay, that's not true. Some trolls are happy to troll and tell you they're trolling.
ninjashogun: benkay - through the methods other people have alreayd suggested (or something similar) to asciilifeform.
ninjashogun: benkay, a variation on one of the known methods.
benkay: sorry - inaccessible.
benkay: less accessible is not acceptable.
benkay: (for reasons you fail apparently to grasp)
ninjashogun: benkay, I do grasp it.
ninjashogun: benkay, and I understand the Risk Compensation argument deeply and with nuance.
benkay: seems as though you're the only one.
benkay: i think there's a good reason society's locked you up in a 100/mo shithole, sir.
diametric: oh he's back
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benkay: you're incapable of even convincing the government to pay your welfare.
asciilifeform: in safety engineering, there is a concept where precautions that annoy people and get in the way of work tend to make construction workers, oil prospectors, etc. worse off
asciilifeform: than nothing at all
asciilifeform: household example would be a smoke alarm that goes off every time you overcook a potato
asciilifeform: it tends to end up unplugged and in a parts bin
ninjashogun: benkay - Yes, you have just written a good example of trolling.
Mats_cd03: oh snap
ozbot: Keyboard fight - YouTube
decimation: ninjashgun has your startup managed to acquire financing?
mircea_popescu: in other news
Mats_cd03: whenever i see tumblr my brain tells me "boobies"
Mats_cd03: ive been trained by mp to react to tumblr
asciilifeform: i, personally, have nothing against paupers who live in $100, or even $10 ditches, and cannot finance anything
mircea_popescu: titsbler
asciilifeform: but then come the 'ideas'
ninjashogun: decimation, as I mentioned before we are at the pre-financing stage - the startup is not raising money right now. I know a lot of stories of people who built great things with burn rates near $0. Airbnb is now closing a round at $10B. They sold cereal to launch.
Mats_cd03: your knowledge of how other startups work is impressive
Mats_cd03: oops forgot an /s
ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, I worked for a startup that was acquired, as one of just two employees. Yes, I know how typical funded startups operate.
Mats_cd03: thats cool, what was the service or good being sold
ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, it was called "don't feed the trolls" and we sold custom consulting services that consisted of "Don't feed the trolls". Hope this answers your question.
Mats_cd03: im actually not trolling
Mats_cd03: but consulting firms are cool, i guess...
ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, I humbly disagree, but you are entitled to your opinion.
benkay: kakobrekla save us
Mats_cd03: so much for innovation
ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, honestly I clearly have given this channel way too much access to what I'm doing already. There's a reason stealth mode startups operate in that way.
Mats_cd03: i think youve spent too much time drinking the silicon valley koolaid
Mats_cd03: if an idea was special nobody would be
ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, very humbly, perhaps people here may benefit from a bit more experience with them.
asciilifeform: ninjashogun walks into 'alcoholics anonymous' with a jug of moonshine. 'perhaps people here may benefit from a bit more experience with this!'
Mats_cd03: i can't speak for anyone else
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, have you had bad experiences with startups?
asciilifeform: everyone with a net connection, including Pashtuns using steam modems with ip-over-dead-goat have, at this point, 'had bad experience with startups.'
mircea_popescu: hahaha steam modems ?
benkay: ip-over-dead-goat!
mircea_popescu: your figures are good :D
asciilifeform: i had a dream as a kid where me modem (old at&t 'paragon' fished from a skip) was a gas modem, and i forgot to turn off the gas
mircea_popescu: clearly someone's mom was intent on stove discipline
asciilifeform: (i know of no real life 'gas modem' but folks have proposed using gas, water, even sewer pipes for 'last mile' ip so be careful what you wish for)
decimation: 'last mile' power line modems are particuarly idiotic
mircea_popescu: "send emails over your farts! it's great for the environment and ok for your wallpaper"
decimation: spam the shortwave spectrum for a few megabits
asciilifeform looks for and fails to find the old article on robotic rats used to run wire through sewer pipes
mircea_popescu: i wonder if real rats ever tried to mate with them
decimation: sending data through an accoustically coupled gas pipe would be amusing but slow
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.06200001 = 0.186 BTC [-] {2}
ninjashogun: Here is why silicon valley is different:
ozbot: PricewaterhouseCoopers: Global: Insights & Solutions: MoneyTree™
ozbot: super sewer robots
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 6 @ 0.11950724 = 0.717 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: decimation and if there's a gas explosion everyone gets unfriended ?
mircea_popescu: whole neighbourhood!
ninjashogun: It's the difference between "How can I help you get from a $500K nominal valuation - your last round - to $10M" and "Wait, you're not taking a salary? Why don't you just go on welfare?" -- this channel above :)
dub: I know someone that implemented IPoW(et)S(tring) at university
benkay: valuation ≠ value.
ozbot: INSPECTOR SYSTEMS - MAKRO Plus, Service robots for sewer inspection
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18076 @ 0.0009479 = 17.1342 BTC [+] {3}
ninjashogun: benkay - you are reinforcing my point. valuation might not be value, but it's clear that airbnb is worth more than $200K in cash.
asciilifeform: i saw a much simpler (cable-driven) version of this being used right here on my street.
ninjashogun: benkay - moreover valuation literally is value, in that it literally is someone paying literally that price.
benkay: you miss the point again.
asciilifeform: your heart, liver, corneas have a valuation. ask the chinese. anybody paid yet/
ninjashogun: benkay - I think you miss the point. Valuation literally, bydefinition, is value.
benkay: so all of GLBSE is worthwhile i guess.
dub: CSS == value
benkay: PMB's == value
asciilifeform: ok found it:
ozbot: Forbidden Hillcrest, The Sewer Robots of Pulaski County
ninjashogun: dub, what is css in this context?
asciilifeform: this is quite like the one i saw.
decimation: interesting. Such a robot could be quite useful for setting up covert data connections
ozbot: Insight Vision Jet Propelled Camera
Namworld: Protoss Observer, sewer model
ozbot: The risk compensation theory and bicycle helmets -- Adams and Hillman 7 (2): 89 -- Injury Prevention
mircea_popescu: obviously my client splits it up as pula ski
Mats_cd03: what is this "stove discipline" you speak of
Mats_cd03: is this something you can only experience in the dreaded lubyanka
mircea_popescu: well, natural gas is dangerous, in that it'll level a house.
mircea_popescu: pretty much the only way kids and senile old people have of causing serious trouble
asciilifeform: speaking of which,
ozbot: Merchants shut down after East Harlem gas explosion plead for help - NY Daily News
mircea_popescu: sahara boutique
mircea_popescu: sounds promising.
mircea_popescu: 116th street wow. and yet it has buildings and everything ?!
asciilifeform: given how it was an almost surgical demolition job of most of a block, probably a basement leak
asciilifeform: but ianafi (i am not a fire inspector)...
nubbins`: who is?!
mircea_popescu: so the city is responsible huh ?
ozbot: Crews focus on gas lines in New York building explosion
mircea_popescu: data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAArwAAAGbBAMAAADU1V5jAAAAJFBMVEX////g4OAgICBgYGBAQEAAAACgoKDAwMCAgIDl5f/U1O3d3d00vM7SAAAURUlEQVR4nO2du3MbNx7HoQcszbjR5DF3paLHJaXOGWVSchwzcQnThG0NG41z7jWZ81zryUWX9hoWTH9FOjWs/M/d4rUvYHcB7EKiud/vaChyd38L8MMfQQD7w28JgSAIatZnR37HeR4Wpb2LhCd/UH3B50ePnp5dE35D5pTzud6+d/JNtvPsiHB+KsgeMvLPs5uDpz9lz80x08qZ9l6T8yN6rF9lx9CJeipPn72eyw2fn/yYPe48Obs2+4sjt0+X73+ZXJ4+eUn4JHv/p99+Z7Y/n16Qk9sJ
mircea_popescu: mX2bPSGHU3Yw/+31++fTmya8j97s8Ov3xg9LeOXpDd6d8x/OP2TfmfmTNwXU6Wm6N/iwmtJH/8ne+vR69ka7l9IJ2Z+Qky8vMi67x5lrPmF7L3ZeXh5lW7JN81+/Jm+/mWYOff3u4vaDMpk/Ort4d51tOnj6Y3bM93RyebM7IY/k6Q3evVdkl2XIr8k5fX5ys3dyejR/ez63K7Ydup0e7b0g5MuL+eXNnJ49+0lvn/6ePfxyKlh+dpw93Wf7jMyn0iXnhH87P5j9xg9e/vx6/9WZNnl6+Pz4Umx6/112rv2v6OT9h/fXRJ2eZ+2OsBWf1ZH49MgOnV8eX353ezE7297G4fB8/gUTX+T57kS0va+yTc8yD/3r+fxo5+mbvQ8Zlw+kjndGzjNq54ezZy93zl9rk3df/M7OxKbbs+
mircea_popescu: nF7OkRneweXx5lluL0s2fPJF5NUrgrPd5l/9p5P5ltcdtL6O0PynsP3ujGYY8fi39vj/e/un1yPXv2XLyq4p2TafZyuid+Ci8n2uTLt9ev3ohNl5xP+CzDe/g682z95dCNQ+a9OzfSe/9CJ/vs85PLyXyL8f6b7v5NN46X5bb3LAOxe7w3M79j+9W2N0MrvPcFOdo5ea1Nds+Pnr4Qm26Pdsjs7YROdubZl8Fue49l23si8E6zD2Gb8V6+0z2H7CdM9By+N9uznsPe/Fd+k+M9mP36+v035zcar2h7d85+frX/+kSbHM7I7bHY9NmPl9fzw1cZtOkxKfccTr/9e6XnkOH9fprh3f363t/3PWk/+xbrjumBaHtnevuh6Pc+Of3sOMdL/nF280j3ezO85O3pue456M7YwUvy7oLk
mircea_popescu: PYfMO8Xrcr9XNO3lfu8+++Ls7VdzcnhmV2xL9GXK4djtdcKTfxLaS3ju3Vn3MVC09n7qPgaCoAcV5YRzlj0Swpn4g4YUI4zJR0IJzf4euj5bpka8HOotphoHF96rVaD+DDUo648+xj2tk9X8v0yCFQ4MvMOXDbxSafGyBrzLrPW4WmX/ruTBS75aXcnHVbZlKbdl/5dyT/b3pzyWr9ThysZplJ0wNzJ7dBnDv0UfJcSbtb36r9Yxy/EWKK+WV+Ixe71ccb1tqfZkf//LjhXY1OFXqzajpTHSe5Z/LBO9RR8lxNuoMt7lUpMwpFZl75V7VlfSe8t4eaPRKjfSn9DI8epvsyG1NB6dHaH3mMbhKm8cJGeX0dXK7MmeZo/i9H/wRG/RRw+Od7VcrUqOeLWstL2F9670sTlet5HZow
mircea_popescu: iLPXzU3lsjtYrBu7Lwlg5E49CK98q0vV54cyOzZ8Rtr+hHiZ+2vI+11H2sK/PTlnfMlrqPdSVaZfnEZSQ7ZmJPdnqzZ1s7Zi14C7ld66r68s/GPS1GHpX00CeIt7zLOY9W33jXfnj7rsfNJh7qZ12qec+y6++OWRNjrNgVqMEqed/WQ9WcAa9TQ+FlNl6mx8IZWTk0Bt7osrkDL+VU/XHGmfgrdgVq9Hhd3ivAqj/GOfAGiz7OSTU0DoKtuJ7JKOMEeIPEOvBSxVZ4r6QLvEFinBpmrAEv4wqvbB6AN0iMduKVLS9+2qIk8PIWvFnbS0R3LKOLjlm4mPj2K1TchRfDiqSNA/D2w0sUXknZgb
asciilifeform: puzzle for us all?
benkay: pastebin?
benkay: plus context?
mircea_popescu: its the ^OEX chart, 5 years, weekly
mircea_popescu: it looks beyond fucking ridiculous
mircea_popescu: here, i'll summarize it for you :
Mats_cd03: it all makes sense now
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6139998 BTC [+]
benkay: nice steady rate of inflation in the usd?
mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 the ^OEX, ie standard and poor 100, is the index of us stocks. which supposedly have been moving like it's animated by the gosplan
Mats_cd03: i see
mircea_popescu: benkay from 500 to 800 in 2 years ?
mircea_popescu: it was 500ish in 2002.
mircea_popescu: it was 500ish in 2007
mircea_popescu: it was 500ish in 2012
mircea_popescu: but since...
mircea_popescu: 25+% a year, twice madoff's presumed return.
benkay: talking about this?
ozbot: S&P 100 INDEX Index Chart - Yahoo Finance
Namworld: Damn, I decoded what was pasted and i got a large image with just a few pixel high line of actual picture.
mircea_popescu: sorry for shortner
mircea_popescu: the image comes straighyt from there, who knew these guys use mpex tech o.O
mircea_popescu: i thought i was the only cool one.
mircea_popescu: anyway, simply put anything past 1994 is bs.
mircea_popescu: (the 25 year graph makes it quite plain)
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, madoff chose a return that was set not to be "too good to be true" while working more on giving the appearance of very low baked-in risk. He did not give out returns that made anyone wealthy - he was just very consistent about it.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1700 @ 0.00012401 = 0.2108 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 34 @ 0.0730414 = 2.4834 BTC [-] {4}
benkay: 2001-2003
benkay: good times
benkay: i start to understand the furor over QE ca 2007
mircea_popescu: should have let the bullshit deflate then
benkay: "but we're already printing money every week! what else are we to do?"
benkay: "i have a pwan! pwint MOAR!"
mircea_popescu: anywya, if anyone wants to sell me ^OEX puts...
benkay: what timeframe? just out of curiousity.
mircea_popescu: five years, say.
benkay: i've been looking for fb puts on the same scale.
mircea_popescu: i'd take two years there
mircea_popescu wistfully recalls his rimm puts. o glory.
mircea_popescu: i can't sell enough us, as far as i'm concerned.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7600 @ 0.00094859 = 7.2093 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, the berkshire bitbet is something else
ozbot: Facebook, Inc. (FB) Option Chain - Stock Puts & Calls - NASDAQ.com
mircea_popescu: 98 no bets for a 34.98 btc pool. 14 yes bets for a 1007.6 pool
mircea_popescu: that's 0.35 avg vs 71.95 avg
mircea_popescu: only 200x
benkay: but buffet, mannnnnn
mircea_popescu: even if we exclude my bet, it's still .54
benkay: smart money is big money.
mircea_popescu: and vice versa.
mircea_popescu: i'll end up making 3% over a year and people will be o noes, such low return
benkay: srs? in btc?
benkay: i was under the impression that 2% was an outrageous return in btc.
mircea_popescu: you don't read the forum much i take it.
benkay: i should fix that.
mircea_popescu: maybe not
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13750 @ 0.00094949 = 13.0555 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15358 @ 0.00094855 = 14.5678 BTC [-]
taub: what exchange is lake
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 36 @ 0.0055591 = 0.2001 BTC [+]
hdbuck: shit im being prosecuted. any lawyers? ^^ https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494617.100
mircea_popescu: you're being prosecuted for karpeles being jewish ?
hdbuck: i really cant tell so far
hdbuck: maybee
hdbuck: ?!
mircea_popescu: this crap is in service discussion ?!
hdbuck: lol yeah, i just digged up MK essays and got caught between fires
mircea_popescu: what or who is mk
hdbuck: Mark Karpeles
hdbuck: the scammer
kakobrekla: yeah, i better stop using initials for my email signature
mircea_popescu: sucks huh.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11522 @ 0.00094589 = 10.8985 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: yeah well you are not too far from it
kakobrekla: mp, mk, the keys are right next to each other
mircea_popescu: im not too worried about it
kakobrekla: i know.
mircea_popescu: "The sooner this community gets rid of these stains/schemes currently tainting the innovative and revolutionary world of bitcoin which they are piggybacking, the sooner we will make progress."
mircea_popescu: this preceded by "Your detachment from reality..."
cazalla: clearly karpeles is JIDF
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6230002 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: are these the idiots who whine at facebook about whether x y z is a country ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 58 @ 0.00608565 = 0.353 BTC [+] {5}
jborkl: What is JIDF?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 42 @ 0.00619576 = 0.2602 BTC [+] {3}
cazalla: Jewish Internet Defense Force
ozbot: Check Fund Manager Wall of Shame
cazalla: I would probably get along great with radan lol
hdbuck: what?! they havent had add Karpeles to that list yet? ^^
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2400 @ 0.00094323 = 2.2638 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> wait what ?
mircea_popescu: <mpoe-pr> you're aware that there's this bitcoin forum that i work on every day. and on this forum, there are sub-forums. and one of these is off-topic.
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> ya
mircea_popescu: <mpoe-pr> there's a thread there for movie recommendations. forum people. recommending movies to each other. can you imagine the horror? cause it's worse than you imagine.
mircea_popescu: poor girl.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61519 BTC [-]
hdbuck: mircea_popescu, could you please enlighten me regarding what is actually going to happen in bitcoinland? i mean, all that junk going on with the BTCFoundation, the heists, the banks, the whole damn world? what to expect if not some shitstorm lies and persecutions?
mircea_popescu: well who knows the future eh ?
hdbuck: i figured you had a pretty good idea tho cuz i'm clueless :)
mircea_popescu: who knows, maybe the sec finally decides to stop dicking around and we get some scams actually blown open properly,
mircea_popescu: rather than this current "pick bugs off the floor put them, in the bucket whence they run back out" thing we've been doing for the past three years
mircea_popescu: it's starting to drive the girl nuts, for one.
mircea_popescu: my cock really doesn't taste as bad as people tell themselves.
hdbuck: i saw your first post on the btcforum was: "I'm pretty convinced we will see 1mn$ / BTC at some future point" havent changed your mind so far? ^^
mircea_popescu: what post is this ?
ozbot: Latest posts of: Mircea Popescu
hdbuck: first one
hdbuck: nice introduction ^^
mircea_popescu: i dunno, must be some meanwhile forgotten joke ?
mircea_popescu: that aside, bitcoin will outlive the dollar, in which sense any arbitrary price point will be reached eventually.
hdbuck: a joke taht had kept you busy for the last couple of years
hdbuck: anyho, still reading logs. im not going to bother any longer. keeping up the faith :)
mircea_popescu: have a tit.
diametric: lots of new people stopping by lately i see
cazalla: I'm fairly new and my being here, I would expect more soon diametric
mircea_popescu: curious which is the first hip hop artist to make it here.
mircea_popescu: they all pretend like they're businessmen, it's the hip thing to claim
cazalla: given it takes a year to go through the /r/bitcoin and bitcointalk wringer, i am thinking most end up here after some time and not straight off thet bat
mircea_popescu: i sure hope so.
diametric: cazalla: why is that?
cazalla: diametric: learning curve i would think
diametric: there is a surprisingly amount of people that really dislike mircea_popescu. I've encountered a few that proclaim he's a scammer, but when questioned on what scam specifically they fail to give details.
diametric: and by association they've linked this channel to scammers
cazalla: I'm your average person, can't keep up with some of the conversation here, need to go and google words for definitions and so forth but I'm here (got started in Bitcoin nov 2012) so I would expect others who are average to start turning up as I have
mircea_popescu: the convenient explanation being that they're exposed scammers/shills with a bone for pr.
CheckDavid: cazalla: normal people have to Google
mircea_popescu: the more likely explanation is probably that they're not actually as smart as they see themsekves.
CheckDavid: But it you actually Google
CheckDavid: You are away being them :)
CheckDavid: *way beyond
cazalla: diametric: I think the dislike might come from feeling inferior due to the conversations here
cazalla: If you put ones ego aside for a moment, there is a lot you can learn, at least that has been my experience to date
diametric: possibly, it also reminds me of when someone wins at something, people immediately assume they cheated somehow because they themselves didn't win.
mircea_popescu: crab pot phenomena
CheckDavid: mircea_popescu sucks
CheckDavid: But I love him
CheckDavid: He is wise
mircea_popescu: omg i don't suck how can you say that!1
hdbuck: im really trying to grasp what happened with the massive PUT orders in early feb. MP's feb report mentioned his ability to stand for the sake of bitcoin, and being well connected, etc... But who was on the other side? Why such orders in bulk at this given period? :/
diametric: asciilifeform: found a device with a ridiculous ppi
asciilifeform: diametric: ?
asciilifeform: (gonna guess: a head-mounted lcd)
diametric: asciilifeform: 5.5in screen at 1440x2560.
mircea_popescu: hdbuck well don't forget to publish if you figure out anything.
asciilifeform: now we need 24 in of that.
mircea_popescu: diametric that has got to be a scam.
mircea_popescu: 500dpi srsly ?
diametric: mircea_popescu: oppo's made several phones already
asciilifeform: this is only 2x the density of the 'nexus 10' widget i read djvus with.
mircea_popescu: what tech is that ?
diametric: mircea_popescu: oppo has the only phone on the market currently running cyanogen that's been certified by google as well
mircea_popescu: heh and the chinese take the lead.
mircea_popescu: so how are they made, just packed tighter ?
mircea_popescu: all i see is a n1 at 2k/1k
asciilifeform: transistors have packed to far greater densities, far earlier
asciilifeform: the 'hard part' of this kind of display is - driving it
mircea_popescu: and that's a ~7inch tablety thing
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform many problems, really.
asciilifeform: kopin corp. had microdisplays with ~1600x1200 in fingernail sized element, for ages
asciilifeform: just not at 'human' prices.
mircea_popescu: well sure
asciilifeform: there were, if i recall, others.
asciilifeform: (i once took a great interest in the subject of head-mounted displays)
diametric: asciilifeform: do you still actively play go?
asciilifeform: as a matter of fact i do.
diametric: they just started accepting bitcoin
asciilifeform: haha neat
diametric: with a 15% discount this weekend apparently.
kakobrekla: i havent played in years :\
mircea_popescu: great game to play with teh girlz.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1168 @ 0.00083535 = 0.9757 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 200 @ 0.00546 = 1.092 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 919 @ 0.00047516 = 0.4367 BTC [-] {4}
diametric: asciilifeform: so if you post on reddit with +/u/CompileBot language \n\n [ code ], it will run that code and post it as a reply.
decimation: everyone knows that such blocks of wood are trival to obtain - simply punch a tree ala minecraft
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00319977 = 0.16 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: i actually know someone who owns a board like that.
asciilifeform: my brother. he didn't pay 100k though
asciilifeform: more like 1k. i think it was old (100+ yrs.) and refinished at least once, after ww2 if i recall.
decimation: well, presumably one could make it out of oak or pine for much less $$
asciilifeform: yes. there's some of those in the linked shop
decimation: the trick is drying and finishing
asciilifeform: it's surprisingly hard to find a breed of wood that comes in the requisite monolithic piece and never - ever - warps.
decimation: there is much art to drying wood without warping
asciilifeform: (the stones, traditionally, are glass and very slippery. so surface gotta be level.)
asciilifeform: (nitpick - traditional stones aren't glass - seashell and slate.)
asciilifeform: all i personally have is a very thoroughly weathered (from abuse as a student) magnetic board.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14300 @ 0.00094552 = 13.5209 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: actually all the good boards i've seen are stone
mircea_popescu: black/white marble on rosy granite works especially well
asciilifeform: i imagine it would. in japan they like the 'click' of the wood though.
mircea_popescu: yeah well, what do they know.
asciilifeform: 1 of these days i too will purchase an enormous stone plinth. always wanted one, holography table
decimation: for an optics bench?
decimation: one probably need not be that hardcore for an optics bench
decimation: but it would be helpful
asciilifeform: holography specifically
asciilifeform: needs a heavy table
asciilifeform: long exposure times, little tolerance for vibration.
decimation: dump a concrete block in the ground, build a building around it, isolated with air gap
asciilifeform: that's actually pretty close to the traditional recipe:
asciilifeform: stack of old tires, pour 'quickcrete'.
asciilifeform: takes up a good bit of space though.
asciilifeform: (and i'd probably fall through my floor...)
decimation: yeah you probably want to build it in a basement
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 34 @ 0.0031 = 0.1054 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: yeah that's where it ought to go. at any rate, probably not happening in a 30m^2 flat.
asciilifeform: my mind always boggles when i visit somebody's gigantic house and there's no heavy, oily strange in the basement
asciilifeform: all that space, wasted
decimation: even worse; finished with mold-gathering carpet
ninjashogun: pretty interesting link - http://blogmaverick.com/2009/02/09/the-mark-cuban-stimulus-plan-open-source-funding/ --- but the interesting part is the comments! scroll down.
mircea_popescu: my mind boggles when i visit someone and they have shit like a pool table in the basement
mircea_popescu: "o ya, you're really living it large dude. the whole point of a pool table is to keep it in a cellar."
dub: its to get away from the woman
Diablo-D3: but I thought the point of a pool table was to throw a woman on it and fuck her
dub: no, tried getting jizz out of felt before?
mircea_popescu: you two are speaking of different women.
mircea_popescu: dub forget that part, that's easy. ever tried to talk to the beast after she's been rubbed raw on marble for half hour ?
dub: can only imagine, I find carpet bad enough
decimation: <<mircea_popescu: "underserved" and "unearned" income are exactly the cornerstone of productive economic activity. >> moldbug's solution: formalism http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.ca/2007/04/formalist-manifesto-originally-posted.html
decimation: The goal of formalism is to avoid this unpleasant little detour. Formalism says: let's figure out exactly who has what, now, and give them a little fancy certificate. Let's not get into who should have what. Because, like it or not, this is simply a recipe for more violence. It is very hard to come up with a rule that explains why the Palestinians should get Haifa back, and doesn't explain why the Welsh should get London back
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12100 @ 0.00094323 = 11.4131 BTC [-] {2}
dub: asciilifeform: noob question im having trouble getting a straight answer, have 20a dc supply that I want to drive (carefully) off 10a of AC mains, bad idea?
asciilifeform: 20a of what?
decimation: what voltage is your DC supply?
dub: 12v (13.something)
decimation: should be fine, don't put too much other stuff on the AC circuit
dub: ac is 230 if it matters
decimation: that should be like 1 amp of ac
decimation: why do you need 10?
dub: I only have 10 of AC, a small generator
decimation: if it's putting out 10 amps at 230 volts you are fine
kakobrekla: 2300w vs 240w
decimation: is it a linear supply or switching supply?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20500 @ 0.00094821 = 19.4383 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: diametric "here's how i try to inject myself in stuff that has nothing to do with me over 5k words. call me michael moore"
decimation: if it is a switching supply and your generator puts out crap AC, you might ruin the dc supply
mircea_popescu: in any event, violence is not a "problem". it's required, like breathing.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was it you who had a piece about 'temperature' ?
asciilifeform: (as in simulated annealing)
mircea_popescu: perhaps not ?
asciilifeform: but re: society and 'hormesis' of theft
asciilifeform: ;;ud hormesis
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hormesis | trending. white dragon breath · surfboard · thot · tittybong · neknominate · lumpatious · poopsterbate · fap · bae · thought blocked. categories. gaming · sports ...
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: hormesis
decimation: as in a little radiation is good for you?
mircea_popescu: well this is all too vague to pinpoint.
mircea_popescu: decimation no, as in a little fucking and public speaking is required for adults.
mircea_popescu: even if you don't make either your life calling.
asciilifeform: yeah in this particular case, this.
asciilifeform: a common criticism of mr moldy (whose every published word, to my shame, i read) is that his entire philosophy seems to reduce to 'the crown exists to guard my suburban house against evil ape men'
asciilifeform: to be fair, 'truth in advertising' - 'mencius'
decimation: which would be awesome for him, but it's not going to happen
mircea_popescu: i dunno why this fear of other people seriously.
mircea_popescu: there's this generation of nuts that fears its own shadow. cops ? hoprrible. the sec ? omaigawd. black kids ? HALP HALP
mircea_popescu: i wonder how they manage to brush teeth.
asciilifeform: in their guarded enclaves?
mircea_popescu: what if the tootbrush gives them an evil look one day ?
mircea_popescu: i mean, even in the middle of an armed rebellion/invasion your chances to be plugged are what, 1% ?
decimation: it does seem that paranoia is the mood of our age
mircea_popescu: syria casualties are 100k over 22mn.
mircea_popescu: that fails to be a 1%
mircea_popescu: meanwhile they play dice for a 2% house edge. that's okay.
asciilifeform: this is a psychiatric, not political, phenomenon.
mircea_popescu: planes are dangerous, see ? cars are fine.
mircea_popescu: they should put wheels on the fucking airplane seats.
mircea_popescu: kids would love them
decimation: somehow the risk aversion circuit has gone haywire?
mircea_popescu: decimation guess why ?
mircea_popescu: kid regularly beaten is not affraid of the world.
mircea_popescu: kid that's never been beaten ? nuts.
asciilifeform: ;;google axenic mouse
mircea_popescu: the romans had the following problem to sexual fixations in pubers : exposure.
mircea_popescu: apparently you can't get a fetish going if you get to see the actual object, in all its nude glory.
mircea_popescu: experience, direct experience, remains the best cure for mental dysfunction.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform pretty much
decimation: the parents I know who pratice physical punishment have the most well-adjusted children
mircea_popescu: it doesn't even have to be all that present, but human beings need experiences, and a balanced diet thereof.
mircea_popescu: if you've never been punched in the face your reptillian brain builds this thing into an endless colossus. if you have, whatever. maybe you lose a tooth, your lip gets swollen. so what of it ?
mircea_popescu: this works across the board, currently the biggest deterrent to nuclear detonation isn't a bunch of fucktarded chicks that drink tea and blather like sheep. it's simply the desire on all parties that invested billions in these things to avoid proving to the general public that... big fucking deal.
mircea_popescu: as long as nobody uses them it's "those incredibly, exceedingly, unrepresentably powerful weapons". after a dozen or so pop it's like... those very expensive, inaccurate things.
decimation: indeed, nuclear bombs aren't nearly as dangerous as people like to believe
mircea_popescu: and as the countries spending billions on them like the people to continue to believe.
ozbot: Nuclear Bomb Effects Computer
joecool: decimation: but napalm is cheap
mircea_popescu: joecool napalm is mostly oil. thats cheap now ?
decimation: carpet bombing with napalm would probably be far worse for the average citizen than a nuke going off
joecool: mircea_popescu: compared to nuclear weapons? sure
mircea_popescu: joecool that can't be right, mostly because nuclear power is economical as compared to burning oil.
mircea_popescu: the problem is surface, for both of you.
asciilifeform: the fuel in a 'fire job' (as curtis lemay called it) is the kindling you blast the buildings into during the prelude
asciilifeform: not the napalm per se
mircea_popescu: it's all described in this ancient trilema article http://trilema.com/2011/radiatia-si-corpul-omenesc/
mircea_popescu: but fundamentally : every mile you walk adds more than a square mile to the area you've covered.
mircea_popescu: like the problem of finding that plane : it only flew what, 500 miles ?
mircea_popescu: well that's 250`000 square miles to look over.
decimation: yeah, you can't carpet-nuke that kind of area
mircea_popescu: and this if you roughly know the direction. if you don't....
asciilifeform: incidentally, inverse-square effect is why icbms switched to 'mirv' (multiple warhead) systems instead of one fat bomb.
mircea_popescu: and even that, it's what... a hack.
mircea_popescu: does little really
asciilifeform: well, you can mostly level a megapolis, if you have reasonably-accurate targeting
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let's play with math. latent heat for water is what, 12k, +4k per degree.
mircea_popescu: so if you want to boil up afghanistan, you're looking at
asciilifeform: why boil the sea. so wasteful. let's do 'great lakes.'
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 500000 * 10**6 * 50 * (80 *4000 + 12000)
gribble: 8300000000000000000
mircea_popescu: that's a quantity of joules.
asciilifeform: (incidentally, vladimir chelomei suggested exactly this.)
asciilifeform: decimation: that's a famous picture. but - it's a long exposure.
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 8300000000000000000 / (6.1178632 * 10 ** 9)
gribble: 1356682836.58
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 1356682836.58 * 100 / 500
gribble: 271336567.316
decimation: (8 300 000 000 000 000 000 joules) / (1 ton of tnt) =1.98374761 × 109
mircea_popescu: cost 271mn btc to burn up afghanistan.
mircea_popescu: totally worth it right ?
asciilifeform: i also recall that there was a rather serious problem with 'warhead fratricide'
decimation: that's 200 10 megaton nukes
asciilifeform: neutrons from neighbouring blasts would prematurely pop the fissile initiator of a given piece
mircea_popescu: yeah that's a problem.
asciilifeform: if i recall, this was solved with some clever finesse (entirely absent in english language literature, afaik) with neutron tubes:
mircea_popescu: and the thing with megalopolis-oi. cairo yes, cause it's shit. but most modern people live spaced out.
mircea_popescu: europe is pretty much one single urban area by now
asciilifeform: primary was shaped in such a way that it needed 1) the explosive compression and, 2) a certain blast from neutron generator tube - to pop - and (2) would vary in strength based on background
decimation: well, the other point is that if the goal of your war is to capture the enemy's resources, destroying those brains in the cities is the way to defeat your own purpose
mircea_popescu: seems more practical to just start a facebook campaign
decimation: indeed.
mircea_popescu: which brings us exactly to why bitcoin is so important.
asciilifeform: the folks who originally built these things weren't hoping to conquer anything. they were satisfied with the idea of: glass parking lots, free of untermenschen.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
decimation: in retrospect, that seems like a big joke
mircea_popescu: that's the chief value of retrospect
mircea_popescu: extracts the jokes
decimation: like in what respect would the us free of cities be valuable?
decimation: are you going to mine some coal and grow corn?
decimation: what's the point? they will do that today in exchange for little green peices of fabric
asciilifeform: decimation: in what sense is the corpse of the fellow you plug in a duel valuable?
asciilifeform: you - him, so he couldn't you.
decimation: a trophy I guess
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a duel eh ?
nubbins`: phew
nubbins`: long day
mircea_popescu: the ukrainians called a general mobilisation, nobody showed.
mircea_popescu: what duel ?
decimation: in a duel, you can be certain about the death of the enemy; not so much against the nuclear triad
mircea_popescu: if the russians invade alaska the us citizenry would flock there mostly to tweet about it
decimation: that logic more than anything explains the lack of nuclear exchange, in my opinion
decimation: there would be concern about the rights of the eskimos
asciilifeform: somebody should print cloth crib sheets, like the maps given to british officers during the war, but for americans. contents: 'don't shoot - i know secrets!' in 30 languages.
mircea_popescu: "don't shoot or i'll unfollow you"
nubbins`: heh.
mircea_popescu: "i like your nonshooting of myself truly"
mircea_popescu: "dead men wash no dishes" / "dead women suck no cock"
mircea_popescu: there's plenty.
asciilifeform: oldie but goodie. orlov on twittards / silicon valley / etc. -
ozbot: ClubOrlov: Dead Souls
mircea_popescu: and with that i'll bid you all a very good nuclear summer!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00319999 = 0.32 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 123 @ 0.0032 = 0.3936 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5123 @ 0.00095016 = 4.8677 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25637 @ 0.00095214 = 24.41 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 9 @ 0.11950724 = 1.0756 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.06053355 = 0.5448 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 9 @ 0.06200108 = 0.558 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 42 @ 0.00330984 = 0.139 BTC [-] {5}
Neil: .d
ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 359 blocks | Estimated Change: 14.2350% in 2d 3h 17m 54s
Neil: Shit the last 70-ish blocks have been insanely fast.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 121 @ 0.00324619 = 0.3928 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34719 @ 0.00095313 = 33.0917 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 178 @ 0.003288 = 0.5853 BTC [+] {3}
MisterE: where is this letter to SEC?
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