assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 50 @ 0.00511804 = 0.2559 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4496 @ 0.00088989 = 4.0009 BTC [-] {2}
ozbot: Bitcoin Barron Challenges Berkshire - Slashdot
artifexd: "All email received unencrypted is automatically deleted unread." <- Should there be a comma between "deleted" and "unread"?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.05259833 = 0.4734 BTC [+] {2}
Duffer1: i would, dunno if it's grammatically necessary though
BingoBoingo: Also, slipping typos past /. editors is a thrill
joecool: <Diablo-D3> people read /.? < the english language is tricky on this point, it is true that people have read /. however I do not think people still read /.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52805 @ 0.00089261 = 47.1343 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00079506 / 0.00083849 / 0.0008949 (798560 shares, 669.59 BTC), 7D: 0.00079084 / 0.00083345 / 0.0008949 (8266767 shares, 6,889.96 BTC), 30D: 0.000745 / 0.00085513 / 0.0008982 (30247797 shares, 25,866.00 BTC)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06899866 = 0.207 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 63 @ 0.006 = 0.378 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06899865 = 0.345 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 80 @ 0.005965 = 0.4772 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00089405 = 4.7385 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 39 @ 0.00344999 = 0.1345 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38200 @ 0.00089443 = 34.1672 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18150 @ 0.00089119 = 16.1751 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17359 @ 0.00089485 = 15.5337 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10896 @ 0.000895 = 9.7519 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.0680001 = 0.136 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52484 @ 0.00088812 = 46.6121 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29819 @ 0.00088652 = 26.4351 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13300 @ 0.00089246 = 11.8697 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13179 @ 0.00089382 = 11.7797 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13650 @ 0.00089225 = 12.1792 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8107 @ 0.00089012 = 7.2162 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18294 @ 0.00089004 = 16.2824 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 136 @ 0.00348023 = 0.4733 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00349999 = 0.175 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5841 @ 0.00089507 = 5.2281 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17360 @ 0.0008957 = 15.5494 BTC [+]
ozbot: 4.250 billion | Next Diff in 1319 blocks | Estimated Change: 12.0150% in 8d 1h 25m 20s
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 624.17, vol: 5229.17631623 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 619.0, vol: 3520.16353 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 622.9, vol: 3034.80102891 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 644.03, vol: 27.03976344 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 634.7904, vol: 7.60273383 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 641.971901103, vol: 37.82252322 | Volume-weighted last average: 622.418876926
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06899943 = 0.138 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06899942 = 0.138 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13600 @ 0.00088761 = 12.0715 BTC [-] {3}
bounce: oh, nice to wake up to a spurious paste. another reason to hate trackpads.
bounce: because if it wasn't, it gets bailouts
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4900 @ 0.00088908 = 4.3565 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: o look, mpoe is trading 88 now ? i guess short sellers got bored or what
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 9 @ 0.11950724 = 1.0756 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05259698 = 0.1578 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05259698 = 0.1578 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05259698 = 0.1052 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00088908 = 10.4022 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: Tychoon, Barron... Things were bound to go wrong when I tried to submit to Slashot completely sober/
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.615 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.06909855 = 0.4837 BTC [+] {7}
BingoBoingo: Still the name of the game is challenging the editors to catch these things
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3200 @ 0.0008882 = 2.8422 BTC [-]
isthisreallyreal: Anyone care to explain what's going on here ? :p Im totally new to this. Haha
kakobrekla: this box is internet relay chat aka irc
kakobrekla: you type stuff in and other people can see
kakobrekla: then they can reply back if they wish to do so
isthisreallyreal: haha, not that basic! I'm just wondering exactly what you're talking about here:)
isthisreallyreal: A user from bitcointalk refered me here to gain some more experince about bitcoin in generel.
kakobrekla: or you can chop them up and make a nice wooden table
isthisreallyreal: And also, do you guys know any good marketplace where i can buy and sell with bitcoin?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57337 @ 0.00089642 = 51.398 BTC [+] {5}
isthisreallyreal: overstock.com? I can only see that you can buy with regular currencys on that site!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.60646667 = 1.8194 BTC [-] {2}
kakobrekla: but theres a "buy now with bitcoin" button on the bottom of product page
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 67 @ 0.00595003 = 0.3987 BTC [-] {3}
isthisreallyreal: Do you guys use "bitcoins" regularly? :p Or what you find interesting about it?
mircea_popescu: isthisreallyreal you need to stfu and read now, before you go on everyone's ignore.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.00089713 = 15.6998 BTC [+]
hdbuck: im new too, delighted to finally make it to the high sphere, have read the logs about what happened on the 4th of feb.. still trying to figure it all out. cheers. :)
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00079506 / 0.00087709 / 0.00089713 (838186 shares, 735.17 BTC), 7D: 0.00079084 / 0.00083456 / 0.00089713 (8310811 shares, 6,935.92 BTC), 30D: 0.000745 / 0.00085545 / 0.0008982 (30408720 shares, 26,013.21 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13800 @ 0.0008974 = 12.3841 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05259507 = 0.1052 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 863 @ 0.00089705 = 0.7742 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.06999999 = 0.21 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.11950724 = 0.3585 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.06999999 = 0.14 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.05087319 = 0.2544 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.606 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.06999999 = 0.35 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.11950724 = 0.478 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.11950724 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7951 @ 0.00089528 = 7.1184 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 27 @ 0.11950724 = 3.2267 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9395 @ 0.00088963 = 8.3581 BTC [-] {2}
cazalla: patting a rabbit with an open palm (as in the video) blocks it's vision which can make it become defensive
cazalla: i breed NZ whites for meat, some of them would do the exact same thing or even bite if i harassed them as in that video
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5350 @ 0.0008895 = 4.7588 BTC [-]
ozbot: Turkish PM to hold consultations with Azerbaijan on Crimea - Trend.Az | Mobile version
ozbot: Twitter / JamesKerLindsay: Turkey occupying Cyprus discusses ...
Mats_cd03: dinosaurs behaving like the world still belongs to them
chetty: news flash: pot calls kettle black
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 77 @ 0.00331241 = 0.2551 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: in fact, it's unsafe for them to be even within one kilometer of each other.
wao-ender: yeah, comply with safety rules while hijacking plane.
wao-ender: I think for upthrust is one km still safe
Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, he could stay at a reasonable safe distance while still being close enough to show as 1 spot on the radars imo
mircea_popescu: in racing however the road is there to keep the cars up, and turbulence only causes a problem at high speeds, because the cars are designed so that the air pushes them on the ground.
mircea_popescu: there are occasionally accidents where a car follows a leader too close and ends up losing contact with the ground because of the disrupton in airflow
wao-ender: also, I'm reading, there was 50 seats blocked for some special cargo on the plane?
mircea_popescu: so how do you figure two 80 meter long objects a mile apart could appear the same one object
mircea_popescu: if they actally thought that they'd have reported the aliens invading o.O
Apocalyptic: anyway satellite pictures should determine that
mircea_popescu: anyway, getting back to the airflow problem : in racing the road keeps the cars up, but in flight planes are kept up by their drag
mircea_popescu: in order for it to generate enough force to keep all those tons in the air it has to have a certain density and flow pattern
mircea_popescu: basically if you try to fly a boeing behind another you'll just fall
mircea_popescu: and you'll probably fall for 100s of feet at a time because of inertia etc.
mircea_popescu: leaving aside how incredibly dangerous it is (engines also need air, may likely stop etc), it's just not possible to smoothy fly that way
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1861 @ 0.00089206 = 1.6601 BTC [+]
wao-ender: I think mh370 flying at different altitude
mircea_popescu: good military radar works in micrometre by now you know
wao-ender: dunno how they made it, but this conspiracy with sia68 is really interesting
Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, I have no knowledge of a radar indentifying how long an object is or whatever
Apocalyptic: either it reflects the waves or it doesn't
Apocalyptic: I suppose you could achieve that with a special setup with multiple coordinated radars
mircea_popescu: radar is basically video in lower wavelengths, it's not that different.
mircea_popescu: it can see shape and "color" and everything you can see.
chetty: I wonder have radar setups gotten lazy? that is only bothering to look for transponders?
mircea_popescu: including military ? it crossed what, > 100 different sites.
chetty: well then we get to how may military vs civiliand radars along the way
Apocalyptic: pretty sure military radars don't give a fuck about transponders or not
mircea_popescu: yeah, wouldn't make much sense to limit themselves to that.
wao-ender: 'military' hm, how can you know that military doesn't hiding something from public?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12156 @ 0.00089206 = 10.8439 BTC [+]
Mats_cd03: we'll find out six years from now that they've been dead all along and were never actually on the island
wao-ender: > i don't see how they can make that up from shipping 3-4 tons of mangosteens
wao-ender: > which, to me, suggests there was something either hidden in the mangosteens or the manifest is fraudulent
ozbot: No hazardous cargo, just tonnes of mangosteens on flight MH370, says airline CEO - The Malaysian In
Mats_cd03: i wonder what a crashed airplane with mangosteens in hold would look like
mircea_popescu: plane went down because, "SO DONT FUCKING BUY IT, DONT FUCKING DRINK IT, DONT FUCKING CLICK MY LINKS."
wao-ender: Studies suggest that higher doses of xanthones may depress the central nervous system in animals and cause sedation.
mircea_popescu: this is what the us army has come to be, btw : those blondish dudes in a buzz cut with glasses.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19500 @ 0.00089457 = 17.4441 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6615 @ 0.00089689 = 5.9329 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13450 @ 0.00089142 = 11.9896 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.05085001 = 0.2543 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06899959 = 0.138 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.11950724 = 0.478 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 35 @ 0.0060241 = 0.2108 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1000 @ 0.0001499 = 0.1499 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06899937 = 0.138 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14450 @ 0.00088806 = 12.8325 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6053 BTC [-]
bitcoinpete: "In manufacturing, technology eliminates and relocates jobs, but welding robots will never design their own cars. It ain’t gonna happen. In finance, jobs on Wall Street and in The City will be eaten up by Bitcoin, but the invention of the distributed blockchain can’t replace creativity and trust. Kurzweil’s singularity be damned."
ozbot: It’s The People, Not The Protocol, Stupid | When Bitcoin Met Pete
blackwhite: welding robots do not have to design their own cars for cars to be designed automatically
blackwhite: Even circuit boards are designed by "other circuit boards"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 56 @ 0.00345674 = 0.1936 BTC [+] {5}
ozbot: Major Discovery: 'Smoking Gun' for Universe's Incredible Big Bang Expansion Found | Space.com
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1000 @ 0.0001499 = 0.1499 BTC [+]
hdbuck: analysts at Citi Group told me he got offered to have his sort of pension fund in BTC?! such pokerface those banks. ^^
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00332744 = 0.6655 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 4000 @ 0.0001499 = 0.5996 BTC [+]
hdbuck: asciilifeform: nothing, just that he confirmed to me that banks have already started to deal with btc behind the curtain
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.0033091 = 0.6618 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 4800 @ 0.00014998 = 0.7199 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3750 @ 0.00088745 = 3.3279 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4652 @ 0.00088801 = 4.131 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.33749062 BTC to 3`951 shares, 59162 satoshi per share
Apocalyptic: "The recent collapse of bitcoin exchange Mr. Gox has caused alarm in the industry about the stability and security of the virtual currency" // they must include that everywhere...
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 623.71, Best ask: 625.58, Bid-ask spread: 1.87000, Last trade: 623.7, 24 hour volume: 6843.50990414, 24 hour low: 619.46, 24 hour high: 635.0, 24 hour vwap: 626.355003951
gribble: (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX] [--market <market>|all]) -- Return pretty-printed ticker. Default market is Bitstamp. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make (1 more message)
chetty: show me the money / err alarm
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 623.7, vol: 6842.45497403 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 617.0, vol: 3741.72887 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 621.61, vol: 4251.82494996 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 635.01, vol: 62.51398694 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 611.454206, vol: 2820.20400000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 630.0, vol: 7.87890985 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 636.312876, vol: 52.31340017 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
benkay: "stability and security"
benkay: look, there are no exchanges. there's no exchange rate.
benkay: look, end-users are responsible for their own security. it's not fucking secure.
benkay: davout why does bitcoin-central never get press mentions?
davout: benkay: define 'press mentions'
benkay: what do you take me for?!
mircea_popescu: bitcoinpete that's EXACTLY where the bad news starts for them.
davout: we do get some press, but usually it's paymium that's mentioned
mircea_popescu: they rationalize away "oh but bitcoin will never be smarter than us". sure it won't. then mp comes, and you're beyond fucked.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.065 = 0.39 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> a master machinist eats very well even today. << yes, but he's not in a union is he.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2514 @ 0.00015 = 0.3771 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: "The controversial owner of MPEx is" o look, i r controversial nao.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21098 @ 0.00088801 = 18.7352 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: JEFFREY SCOTT OWNBY. Ex BFL VP ?! you gotta be kidding me.
ThickAsThieves: bitcoinx is pretty old, i doubt anyone here runs it too
ThickAsThieves: it lives only cuz it comes up high on google searches for bitcoin mining calc
mircea_popescu: seems to have started jan 2013, then taken a 11 month break to december
ThickAsThieves: ironically i probly used it to determine i should ask for a refund on my BFL
ozbot: bitcoinx.com (bitcoinXnews) on Twitter
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 6 @ 0.05085001 = 0.3051 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 98 @ 0.00348885 = 0.3419 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05085 = 0.1526 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3800 @ 0.00088741 = 3.3722 BTC [-] {2}
ozbot: Ukrainian government refuses to remove troops from Crimea, prepares for war
mircea_popescu: didn't they call a general mobilisation nobody showed ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24800 @ 0.00088648 = 21.9847 BTC [-] {3}
LordPutin: but we won crimea fair and square, they even voted to join us
mircea_popescu: someone should make an ipo of a totally insane thing and just keep posting wall of text after wall of text of completely rambling, nonsensically, perhaps machine-generated text whenever someone says something
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 300 @ 0.00088801 = 0.2664 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1590 @ 0.00349675 = 5.5598 BTC [+] {8}
artifexd: mircea_popescu Your 1 million atc wall on x-bt.com is gone. Eaten up.
BingoBoingo: Oh, half an hour ago there were still a 300k or so left.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.00088748 = 5.2361 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05085 = 0.1017 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.04997799 = 0.4998 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0491 = 0.1473 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 33 @ 0.00349999 = 0.1155 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.069166 = 0.2075 BTC [+] {3}
ThickAsThieves: wow, i didnt know that the owners of about 130,000 properties are without their title deeds in Cyprus
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06898999 = 0.138 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: is there any argument to say they unit of account of Bitcoin is a bitcoin?
ThickAsThieves: and if so, is satoshi a documented name, or just what people say?
jurov: sometimes mili, micro, nano
Dimsler: microtransactions of that nature aren't possible
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00088636 = 8.6863 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: merely if someone asks What is the unit of account in Bitcoin?
ThickAsThieves: i prefer a response from someone i think knows what;s up
ozbot: Gym Bro Successfully Gets Fake Feminist Thought Catalog Essay Published
Apocalyptic: artifexd, how do you know it was mircea's ?
jurov: ThickAsThieves: you want like "official" answer or what?
artifexd: There is reference to "satoshi" as the base element in the reference client code. All the code uses satoshi as the amount of accounting.
BingoBoingo: Apocalyptic: It's establishment and purpose were announced
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves the satoshi is quite clearly the only unit of account, a "bitcoin" is just a courtesy style.
Dimsler: satoshi is a denomincation
Dimsler: unit of account is bitcoin
mircea_popescu: the satoshi name is not documented, other than through ancient convention
Dimsler: ThickAsThieves, nobody in here knows whats up
Dimsler: actually yes that is backwards
Dimsler: denomiations of bitcoin are just that
Dimsler: satoshi as th elowest denomination
mircea_popescu: inasmuch as bitcoin protocol happily handles half a bitcoin
mircea_popescu: it should be pretty obvious what the unit of account is.
artifexd: If you're asking about the code, then the code keeps track of amounts in satoshi. API's accept amounts in satoshi.
Dimsler: i dont' think its actually named
Dimsler: its not called anything at all
artifexd: It is named in a comment. Variables don't contain the name.
artifexd: At least in the reference client.
mircea_popescu: "Some other questions: 1) how naked would you like the models to be?"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 4000 @ 0.00349999 = 14 BTC [+] {2}
ThickAsThieves: to me it seems that hacking an addy would be even less probable than how this writer has approached it
ThickAsThieves: just lookin for some insight on bitcoin, i'll leave the wars to the media
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.00349997 = 0.7 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: can be reasonably considered "absolutely secure" << depends by whom where for what purpose etc.
mircea_popescu: services to describe at least superficially describe their security policy
mircea_popescu: too much describe, and also who are you to make recommendations to people running services ?
ThickAsThieves: whwn i share who wrote it, you'll understand why i'm questioning it
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 4500 @ 0.00014999 = 0.675 BTC [+] {3}
ThickAsThieves: who is constantly trying to look smart while displaying stupidity?
mircea_popescu: no because that is actually intended as a chump party.
Apocalyptic: "The 19-Year-Old Behind Ethereum, a New Digital Currency, Is Insanely Smart"
mircea_popescu: wasn't ethereum more like a new ripple than a new bitcoin ?
mircea_popescu: heh i guess they covered it by calling it "digital currency"
mircea_popescu: but mastercoin was a new ripple once ripple got its guts ripped out
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7200 @ 0.00088636 = 6.3818 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: but ripple never asked you to relinquish your bitcoins to use it
gribble: Nick 'bitcoinpete', with hostmask 'bitcoinpete!~bitcoinpe@S01060016cbc6cced.ed.shawcable.net', is not identified.
bitcoinpete: ;;verify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:da8bab51c90fb8c7142143eaa83df8ade8e8e0aa699576b2863f7245
gribble: Error: 'freenode:#bitcoin-otc:da8bab51c90fb8c7142143eaa83df8ade8e8e0aa699576b2863f7245' is not a valid http url.
benkay: if you want to avoid flailing around in public, you can get down with gribble via pm, bitcoinpete
bitcoinpete: ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:da8bab51c90fb8c7142143eaa83df8ade8e8e0aa699576b2863f7245
gribble: You are now authenticated for user bitcoinpete with key 165749929F9A6BDD
benkay: sheesh bitcoinpete stop burning my electrons
bitcoinpete: benkay: I coulda sworn I went through that rigamarole once before… hopefully this is the last public flailing
benkay: ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:a38d09183a201e377da24b96a6e0747f0e7fc58b5b0a0f8f24ab10bd
gribble: You are now authenticated for user benkay with key 39F274AFBC7ACAC7
benkay: worth doing once a day.
benkay: sometimes in public, sometimes in private.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 12 @ 0.05108899 = 0.6131 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16800 @ 0.00089112 = 14.9708 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17400 @ 0.00088636 = 15.4227 BTC [-]
hdbuck: what's with MP's statement on twitter saying there is no such thing as Bitcoin core devs?! *mind blown 2*
benkay: nobody uses anything post 0.6
benkay: everyone calling themselves a core dev has hacked on the cpp hairball that turned into 0.7 and then 0.8
mircea_popescu: well for further mind blown, consider there's no bitcoin jesus, either o.O
hdbuck: mircea_popescu: gosh was convinced it was you ^^
lopp: only the really nerdy / early bitcoiners from my experience bother running full nodes
bitcoinyeezus: well then who can know what the whelmingness of that thinger implies abouty reality anyways?
midnightmagic twitches uncontrollably at mention of "bitcoin jesus" down in the Caribbean complaining about how slow it is to open a bank account as a recent import from the US
midnightmagic: apparently two days to wait to renounce US citizenship was too much for him, cause "they're after me." wtf.
artifexd: loop: At the bottom of that page " Bitnodes uses Bitcoin protocol version 70001 (i.e. >= /Satoshi:0.7.x/), so nodes with older protocol version will be skipped."
bitcoinyeezus: (just 'cause it has Satoshi in the client string doesn't mean shit about the authors)
lopp: right, it's relatively underwhelming because it used to report > 100,000 nodes
lopp: as yeezus noted, we don't really know enough to say whether or not these numbers should be underwhelming. I'm of the opinion that we don't have enough insight into the load that the nodes are bearing.
bitcoinyeezus: mircea_popescu only knows that by volume owned statistic because he's actually the owner of the 'satoshi hoard'.
lopp: that is, how much more volume of requests could the average node be handling before it is straining its computational / bandwidth resources
midnightmagic: there is virtually no load. i run an experimental node that deals with a few dozen transactions a day on an eeepc 701 just for fun.
mircea_popescu: it's more in terms of security, due to various graph splitting attacks that coudl conceivably be deployed
lopp: gotcha - I keep hearing that it's trivial but I guess I'd prefer to see actual numbers regarding, say, how many SPV client requests the average node is handling / how many historical block and tx lookups it's handling, how many invalid txs it's deciding not to relay, etc
bitcoinyeezus: lopp: sit down and figure it out. write it up, post it somewhere. contribute to bitcoin nollij.
lopp: that's the direction I seem to be headed :-)
midnightmagic: a bunch of us are trying to connect via non-internet connections to at least measure any attempt at chosen-cut/isolation attacks.
bitcoinyeezus: have you heard of such attacks happening, midnightmagic?
midnightmagic: bitcoinyeezus: I have heard of them. I have never personally witnessed one happening.
midnightmagic: ^^ probably running more-connected nodes than I am.
mircea_popescu: the theoretical possibility still exists, in a variety of very difficult to model variants
mircea_popescu: this'd eminently be one of those asciilifeform "parachute first pls" cases
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 7 @ 0.06898999 = 0.4829 BTC [+] {2}
midnightmagic: There is a really neat paper that asserts that if you know "enough" about the edges of a connected graph network and measure the messages, you can map most messages sources.
midnightmagic: where "enough" is smaller than I ever expected it to be
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: No I'm trying to find the link now, it's a really weird little paper that nobody I mention it to has heard of.
midnightmagic: asciilifeform: local meshnet, POTS, satellite, moon, and ham frequencies.
ozbot: As Female GitHub Coder Claims Harassment, Silicon Valley Stands At Crossroads | Wired Business | Wir
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1921 @ 0.00015 = 0.2882 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: silicon valley stands at a crossroad indeed. one way, despair and utter hopelessness
benkay: what happened to manners?
mircea_popescu: "A software engineer named Julie Ann Horvath sent shock waves across Silicon Valley over the weekend" = "nobody gave a shit, so we'll just keep yakking about it"
ozbot: Hey, stupid women ? We need to talk. Smart women don’t want to be with you anymore. pe Trilema - U
mircea_popescu: and to be told that she's important, and valuable, and remarkable and all the rest of the shit women her age want
mircea_popescu: except since she's incapable of fidning a boyfriend, she would like obamacare to pay for it.
mircea_popescu: and obamacare does pay for it, because what else is govbernment for
mircea_popescu: notice how nowhere is it mentioned what the fuck the woman actually did at any point.
mircea_popescu: an entire generation of these, ballas spent some time discussing the zuckerberg woman
mircea_popescu: they're not as much professionally sad as professionally useless
mircea_popescu: i wish some of those "business leaders" or w/e they are actually came forward to plainly state that they don't care, they'll never care, and the peons can get back to the mine.
mircea_popescu: obviously this isn't liable to happen in any venue that's doomed.
mircea_popescu: which is how i conclude silicon valley ain't got much more life left in it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hoiw's she loaded ? she just has rich friends.
mircea_popescu: her constant welfare is dependant strictly on those folks continuing to like her.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2200 @ 0.00088898 = 1.9558 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8450 @ 0.00089119 = 7.5306 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 800 @ 0.00015997 = 0.128 BTC [+] {3}
ozbot: Neighbourhood Pool Watch: 18.1 Who owns 1HTM4TYSXF5yZKLpco6MTUUNfSBCiiwGsU ?
mircea_popescu: "Every post from MPOE-PR I read gives me physical pain"
mircea_popescu: i was thinking more along the lines of, hey dear pentagon, if you're looking to start a research project into how to give people physical pain over the wire... i got the only documented case of this happening working for me.
mircea_popescu: probably they're mostly incensed because she knows too many words.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.06898999 = 0.207 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "women in tech", but only for just as long as a) they're stupid and b) they don't ever do anything let alone make calls.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 142 @ 0.06898999 = 9.7966 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.06800005 = 0.272 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0506 = 0.2024 BTC [-]
midnightmagic: "Identifying Infection Sources and Regions in Large Networks"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.06962498 = 0.2785 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7200 @ 0.00088743 = 6.3895 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2571 @ 0.000149 = 0.3831 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00088972 = 4.0927 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5400 @ 0.00088972 = 4.8045 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1000 @ 0.00349999 = 3.5 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.0035 = 0.7 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 45 @ 0.0035 = 0.1575 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: Please note that an updated link to a PDF version will be posted at lmb-holdings.com soon.
ThickAsThieves: Also, additional updated information will be provided later this week.
benkay: i think you mean in two weeks
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 15 @ 0.08012265 = 1.2018 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 181 @ 0.0035 = 0.6335 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2000 @ 0.00014896 = 0.2979 BTC [-] {5}
benkay: okay i have found a use for the alts
benkay: from the local bitcoin room: "omg i broke my doge-wallet"
benkay: "good thing it's just doge, and not bit."
benkay: "ya i guess you're right el oh el oh el"
benkay: one would, would one not?
benkay: alert readers these are not, tho.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21721 @ 0.00088632 = 19.2518 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06620002 = 0.331 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.0662 = 0.5958 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.0662 = 0.3972 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.0662 = 0.2648 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 32 @ 0.05108899 = 1.6348 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 314 @ 0.00085529 = 0.2686 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 600 @ 0.00084356 = 0.5061 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 220 @ 0.0035 = 0.77 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.06440003 = 0.322 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 174 @ 0.00083764 = 0.1457 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 7 @ 0.0510727 = 0.3575 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 53 @ 0.0035 = 0.1855 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.0644 = 1.288 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.0035 = 0.35 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.064388 = 0.6439 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 200 @ 0.00596155 = 1.1923 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5650 @ 0.00088721 = 5.0127 BTC [+]
ozbot: FiveThirtyEight | FiveThirtyEight’s NCAA Tournament Predictions
mircea_popescu: if nate silver, whoever he is, gets some sctatch together
ThickAsThieves: "We may have gone from conceiving of government as an entity that builds roads, dams and airports, provides shared services like schooling, policing and national parks, and wages wars, into the world’s largest insurance broker."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16119 @ 0.00088732 = 14.3027 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 35 @ 0.0035 = 0.1225 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06898998 = 0.138 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 223 @ 0.0035 = 0.7805 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 15000 @ 0.00015998 = 2.3997 BTC [+] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 5 @ 0.03988054 = 0.1994 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 25 @ 0.60512519 = 15.1281 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10700 @ 0.00088773 = 9.4987 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.0035 = 0.7 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: soo, BingoBoingo bitcoinpete jborkl and generally ppl doing blogs : ima be doing a little bit of sec wikileaking in a few hours.
mircea_popescu: it;s going to consist of raw material, you can comment whichever way so get your pencils ready.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13617 @ 0.00088857 = 12.0997 BTC [+] {2}
Mats_cd03: nate silver is well known as a statistician
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47235 @ 0.00089226 = 42.1459 BTC [+] {4}
steven-__: he used to post on 2+2 and had a blog raitng the best burritos in his city
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 200 @ 0.00088997 = 0.178 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.0035 = 0.175 BTC [+]
ozbot: The Burrito Bracket
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 354 @ 0.0035 = 1.239 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1000 @ 0.0035 = 3.5 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.0035 = 0.35 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 428 @ 0.0035 = 1.498 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 120 @ 0.0035 = 0.42 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4133 @ 0.00088971 = 3.6772 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.06898992 = 0.276 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 78 @ 0.00349999 = 0.273 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 761 @ 0.00349999 = 2.6635 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 102 @ 0.0035 = 0.357 BTC [+]
benkay: mircea_popescu: released on trilema?
mircea_popescu: steven-__ that's like rather old #suckstobeleah posturing neh ?
steven-__: I think she said this recently in an effort to stay relevant
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9659 @ 0.00088736 = 8.571 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: may be just "what is done" according to the chinese corp in question
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 48 @ 0.00354687 = 0.1702 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: so what'd ion migration do ? show whether the user likes vi or emacs ?
bitcoinpete: also, was this sarcastic or serious? 01:47:56mircea_popescu:"Being quiet and studious is broadly unknown in a western culture that prizes views, likes and the inane extraversion required to generate them." no see, that's attacking people's self esteem.
dexX7: he's never sarcastic and i'm serious
dexX7: tricky now, eh? ;)
ozbot: Reposessing web hosting accounts with Photoshop
dignork: mircea_popescu, so the only problem he found is that you;re not supposed to smile on photo-id, lol
mircea_popescu: i wonder how many of the internet haxxors ever had a passport made in the first place.
mircea_popescu: i mean for one thing you can't even get one till you're 18 in many places
dignork: mircea_popescu, but googling for "us passport sample" gives plenty of much more beleivable exmaples
artifexd: My daughter had a passport before she as a month old.
mircea_popescu: what are you trying to do over here, give people sprains ?
artifexd: She won't, but mom and I will.
artifexd: Anyway, the point was that in the US, pre-18yo passports are common.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15650 @ 0.00088558 = 13.8593 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: i thought that was a major issue in the us because of kidnapping concerns
mircea_popescu: (ie, married couple has falling out, either one of them takes kids to mexico)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform when i crossed there it was like... lolk.
artifexd: I can state with certainty that Ecuador has rules requiring notrized documentation from the not-present parent for taking a child out of the country. The US doesn't.
artifexd: My wife has taken our daughter to Ecuador a couple times and no one asked me a damned thing.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 97 @ 0.00354687 = 0.344 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 28 @ 0.00357998 = 0.1002 BTC [+]
ughlol: mircea_popescu: found out you're a billionaire.. sorry to have spoken rudely the other day
ughlol: i mean, i dont want you hiring a hitman with btc to take me out right? :P
ughlol: mircea_popescu: now, getting straight to the point, do you invest? =P
ughlol: mircea_popescu: mind a pm?
mircea_popescu: yeah, you're prolly better off talking in public anyway.
Dimsler: it doesn't count if they are you minions
ninjashogun: guys, I'm watching htis channel as actually in talking with ughlol I'm the one who mentioned mirceau as being high-net-worth. he's from India and has access to a much poorer network of investors than some western countries
ninjashogun: I was talking about how many billionaires/millionaires I know as an American (just 1-2 of the former even if we include mirceau) :)
jurov: ughlol have you read recent trilema stuff?
ninjashogun: I'd like to introduce ughlol based on my conversations with him.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 145 @ 0.00613706 = 0.8899 BTC [+] {8}
jurov: iirc there were some pieces about you both
ughlol: jurov: not really, no..
ninjashogun: ughlol is working on an extremely interesting social network for real spaces, based on shared interests - for exmaple, at a bar if someone is into the exact same bands as you, then you could both be notified.
ninjashogun: so it would work (my words) as an "introduction service" that - if two people both opt in - introduce each other.
jurov: wasn't that the rape stuff?
ninjashogun: That is a feature he is interested in adding, has nothing to do with the social network.
ughlol: jurov: The rape intervention is a part of a much bigger app.
ninjashogun: Another example I can think of is let's say two people are both open source developres. If they put that, then they'd be notified if they're at the same bar - very cool.
jurov: oh okay. just go read trilema then.
ninjashogun: Due to its double-opt-in nature, it is especially good as a dating solution.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00358 = 0.358 BTC [+]
ninjashogun: He is also an engineering student in India, and as such he has access to a very good source of labor.
ninjashogun: On the downside, he has no access to a venture capital ecosystem.
ninjashogun: In addition I've seen some of his skills in pentesting and security, and think he is the real deal in terms of what he can program. Here is his site, where you can see his photo and full name as well:
jurov: i don'thave a vulture capital access, too and i'm fine
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 500 @ 0.00358 = 1.79 BTC [+]
ughlol: jurov: I think you can understand that it is difficult (not impossible, but difficult) to create something from nothing.
jurov: ughlol, such as... bitcoins?
ughlol: mircea_popescu: Interesting indeed, but ofc, I am looking for investment.. You can call yourself a venture capitalist, investor, angel investor or whatever you like :)
ughlol: jurov: not bitcoins, but a mobile app
ughlol: a social networking app that is meant only for mobile devices
BingoBoingo: Wait, isn't this just what Tinder and Grindr do?
ughlol: since the social networking scene is shifting off computers and onto mobile devices.
ninjashogun: and you can see his face, name, and profile there
jurov: grindr doesn't do rape afaik
ughlol: BingoBoingo: Tinder was active since 2012, and they dont have much..
ninjashogun: BingoBoingo, I would forget about that portion. It's very germane in India where it is a big problem. If he were from Detroit he would put in bullet tracking information based on echolocation - how far away is that shooting? :)
ughlol: I want to create a social network that completely revolves around location services
ughlol: ThickAsThieves: can I at least discuss the idea?
jurov: you don't discuss, you just pew out nonsense
ughlol: There might be people interested in investing in such an idea.
BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: What ever happened to your Dogecoin investor?
gribble: ┌━ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ ┄ *pew!* *pew!* *pew!*
jurov: ughlol the people considered it, wrote blog about it and rejected it
jurov: and you dn't even want to read it
ughlol: jurov: I would love to read, can you give me a link?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00358 = 0.358 BTC [+]
jurov: yes, on rilema.com some of the top right
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 44 @ 0.00358 = 0.1575 BTC [+]
ozbot: âYou cannot fix a machine by just power-cycling it with no understanding of what is going wrong.â
ninjashogun: I'd like you to read through it and apologize. no way would I fabricate this, with timestamps, just for some 'scam'. I also don't know him personally.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 555 @ 0.0036 = 1.998 BTC [+]
ninjashogun: Well given that you have just taken it upon yourself to accuse me of being a scammer with ughlol it's up to you to take about 35 seconds to scroll through that and determine that, in fact, I have just met him, and you're a fucking troll who should either stop trolling and apologize or (obviously) eat shit or die
ninjashogun: So it's really all the same to me, but I would prefer if you'd do the noble, proper thing and take a few seconds to do that.
Dimsler: the trolls that this channel attracts
ninjashogun: No, of course you can sit around trying to slander and destroy people's reputations. Thanks for doing the right thing and taking 15 seconds to admit you're wrong though.
Dimsler: man nobody is giving you a penny in here
nubbins`: ninjashogun are you in here with your ideas again?
ughlol: Im sorry you feel that way.
jurov tries to think of suitable slanderous soul memepic
ThickAsThieves: now i'm putting you both on ignore for when you come back in a few weeks with your hands out for some other bullshit
benkay: ninjashogun: you ain't introducing shit we already ran him out of here.
ninjashogun: There's just one part of the scrollback that is funny - and that shows he's still a student :)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05108999 = 0.1022 BTC [+]
jurov: Dimsler use teh log.. and there was moar yest
ughlol: nothing wrong in wanting to be a billionaire! :P
ninjashogun: i wanna be a billionaire - and a programming job can't even make me a millionaire - id have to struggle hard just to make ends meet
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 15 @ 0.0655 = 0.9825 BTC [-] {6}
ninjashogun: But he could have the same attitude if he were in San Francisco.
ughlol: Why is everybody trolling?
ughlol: mircea_popescu: Now you understand why I wanted to pm?
ninjashogun: ughlol - it's the nature of htis channel, I told you
ninjashogun: ughlol, mirceau is not going to invest in you, unless oyu had a ton of traction
ninjashogun: you would need to have a lot of different users already.
benkay: dude ninjashogun if you say traction around mp he'll probably just kill you and feed you to the harpies
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 16 @ 0.065 = 1.04 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.0516 = 0.1032 BTC [+]
benkay: social media does not fly here.
jurov: rape whistle billionaires either
dub: we're forgetting how important young people are
Dimsler: scammers trying to scam the scammer
ughlol: Dimsler: :) You're so full of yourself. Give me your name, and I'll destroy your rep. Only if you have the courage.
ughlol: And now Im done sugar-coating shit
ughlol: just to appease you, the filthy rich
Dimsler: should i write out for you?
ughlol: Dimsler: just your real name bro.
ughlol: I bet you dont have the guts either way.
nubbins`: why you puffin' up your chest bro?
ughlol: nubbins`: because I think I have an idea that works.
dub: ;;google greater internet fuckwad
ughlol: And just because you're trolls doesn't mean you can talk shit about it! :)
Dimsler: if you did why would you be in here
ughlol: Dimsler: that is your opinion.
nubbins`: ughlol: that's lovely, an idea! congrats :D
ughlol: Dimsler: to try to gather investment ofc.
nubbins`: most people don't get that far
BingoBoingo: ughlol: Have you tried #dogecoin ninjashogun Seemed to find interest there before
ughlol: no BingoBoingo.. I haven't..
Dimsler: lol why are you people entertaining him?
BingoBoingo: ughlol: In #dogecoin you may even find people who want to try your social thing
Dimsler: ughlol, where from nigeria are you from?
dub: why didnt you say so? where to I sign
ughlol: Dimsler: Its funny you ask. Because there were repeated statements saying Im Indian. You must be illitereate.
dub: india and nigera are basically the same place
ughlol: to try and find investment for a business.
ughlol: dub: and you failed in geography.
ozbot: Interacting with fiat institution, a guide pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
steven-__: are you saying in this log you have never used source control only heard about it?
ughlol: Dimsler: You are not interested.
steven-__: Mar 17 22:52:09 <ninjashogun> how do you do source control?
steven-__: Mar 17 22:52:22 <ughlol> though i've never used it for any of my projects
ughlol: I wanted to speak to mircea_popescu .
ughlol: If he says he's not interested, I'll leave immediately.
benkay: holy shit mircea_popescu!
Dimsler: mircea_popescu, tell the troll to leave
jurov: ughlol, you want to talk to him even after what he write on his blog?
ughlol: I feel theres nothing wrong in that.
ughlol: If he asks me to leave, I'll gtfo.
ughlol: Im not even asking for money.
ughlol: Im asking you to listen.
ughlol: and think without bias.
mircea_popescu: so now that everyone else can be busy, ughlol what was it you wanted to discuss ?
ughlol: mircea_popescu: let me know if you have 10minutes to spare.. after that, I'll not bother you.
ughlol: But on pm, if you dont mind.
jurov: what if he rapes you?
ughlol: I know im practically nothing, and probably don't even deserve talking to someone like you.
ughlol: But I admire billionaires.
Dimsler: ughlol, why? hes just a scammer like you are
ughlol: Thats my dream, which I might never reach.
Dimsler: you might even learn somethin from him
mircea_popescu: it's not practical to discuss things with me privately. we have no basis for that, and whatever you say is perhaps useful for others, later.
ughlol: Dimsler: Yes, I am sure I can learn something from him. Hence I want to talk.
BingoBoingo: "Asking them to pick up your daughter and throw her over a cliff however is an illegal request."
jurov: Dimsler she learned nothing so far
jurov: 10 mins wont change that
ughlol: mircea_popescu: I wont ask you about investment. Just want to learn and understand your opinion. I read your blog article, and what you say makes a lot of sense. Thats why.
ughlol: Otherwise all your friends - Dimsler, jurov, etc will keep interrupting with their comments.
mircea_popescu: i'm currently donating my time discussing things with people who otherwise would never get to talk to me, because i believe in some things.
mircea_popescu: you can't try to leverage that into something that otherwise costs a whole lot of money.
ughlol: Im only asking 10mins on a private chat.
ThickAsThieves: very interested to see how they proceed, assuming you'll share
ThickAsThieves: also interested to see how they proceed, knowing you are sharing
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i dun imagine there's any proceeding to be had.
ughlol: mircea_popescu: Can you spare 10mins on pm, or you want me to gtfo like everybody else wants?
mircea_popescu: very cheeky attitude, "here's the extrusion process we expect everything to go through, we'll just keep repeating it"
Dimsler: mircea_popescu, which post are they talking about
ughlol: mircea_popescu: yes, a little bit.
ninjashogun: ughlol - you should not try so hard for a PM now
mircea_popescu: aha. so, take your time, ask whatever it is you need to ask.
ninjashogun: ughlol - access to mirceau (I just read the most recent few lines, haven't been reading scrollback) is, as he correctly states, a VERY good opportunity
ninjashogun: you should use it for when you have shipped, have a good idea, paying users, and good traction.
ughlol: mircea_popescu: simple question, if i create a prototype for the app that i want to build, would you even consider investing in it?
mircea_popescu: you don't have the position to promote that particular thing. you need a different idea.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Is the timestamp on that last email correct?
ughlol: mircea_popescu: a different idea how?
ughlol: You want me to completely change the idea?
ughlol: Or modify it a little bit?
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mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo no it is not. fixed now and ima check the whole stack.,
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Thanks. WOnder how long it will take for the SEC position to align with the reality of MPEx as SRO
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, I saw your article on ughlol and think it completely misrepresents ughlol's idea and is extremely unfair. As long as it includes no identifying information, it's a simple troll and abuse of your power - which is fine. It will disappear off the Internet and nobody will read it again. However it is in no way accurate based on my conversation with him.
ninjashogun: Based on my impression, the same thing could have been said about Twitter or Facebook.
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ninjashogun: Facebook could be called: "A myspace based on a radical idea. You can ONLY register if you have a .edu account! They have literally just blown myspace out of the water by getting AT MOST 0.5% as many users, because at most 0.5% - one in one two hundred - people in the world uses an active .edu account."
ninjashogun: "Why limit yourself to 6 billion people when you can limit yourself to FIFTY MILLION?"
BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: Based on reading the public conversation in this channel it seems the Rape WHistle app came first and today's social network idea is new.
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun i think you perhaps misjudge the quantity of luck involved in facebook becoming facebook.
ninjashogun: It was what was on his mind at the time. What you're missing is that it was on his mind due to a pain point (read news about India).
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, yes, this is the big defense of trolls. That if it does succeed it's luck, if it fails then obviously it's because it was a dumb idea just as shown by the trolls.
ninjashogun: Dimsler, did you catch the fact that I posted my whole convo (where I first met him) with ughlol?
BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: The fact of the matter is that you can not recharacterize old text as a misrepresentation of a bunch of new text, yet to be released
Dimsler: ninjashogun, can you and ughlol panhandle elsewhere?
ninjashogun: I also consider it a terrible suggestion to ask for funding here, so on that I'm agreed.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves didn't even ask and ended up with "his" altcoin financed lol
ughlol: I was very impressed with mircea_popescu's suggestions last time.. thought I would give it a shot.
ninjashogun: However, we do need to keep a few things in mind. Did you know that VC's (private VC's, managing Limited Partners' cash) get a little bit short of the NASDAQ in returns over the 10-year period of their funds?
ninjashogun: The net result (the 2 and 20 basis) of VC's working 60-100 hours a week on investment opportunities, proprietary dealflow, networking, term sheets, introductions, everything.... is a return just shy of passive over the counter index investment.
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benkay: ninjashogun: so why would anyone play a retarded game like that?
ninjashogun: benkay because (I heard this from a guy named rmah, active on #startups) because VC's are WAY better salesmen than you or I will ever be.
ninjashogun: they sell their funds to their LP's (limited partners)
ninjashogun: that's why those people play those "retarded games".
benkay: so you want to run the same scam here?
ninjashogun: But when Mark Zuckerberg was at Harvard and scamming some guy with a map site out of $2000 that he used to partly build Facebook....
ninjashogun: and I also think that ughlol is wrong to do so.
ninjashogun: benkay - the lottery argument is that it's a net loss. But the whole of the PE (private equity) market is a net gain (for all participants). It's an inflating pie.
ughlol: I wanted to interact with mircea_popescu ..
ninjashogun: When you buy a lottery ticket you get less than a dollar on each dollar you spend. (on average). But investments aren't the same.
ninjashogun: ughlol, you can interact with him here. But I woudn't solicit funding at this stage.
benkay: kakobrekla: i think tiberius is back
ughlol: mircea_popescu: you didn't tell me, you said I need to change the idea. Completely? In what way?
mircea_popescu: ughlol do you understand the concept of "rent seeking" ?
ughlol: mircea_popescu: quite honestly, no..
mircea_popescu: yes, well, basically economic activity can be divided in entrepreneurial (which expands the pie) and rent seeking (which redistributes the pie)
ninjashogun: benkay- here's a way to think about the 'lottery argument'. Do you think it would be a net gain or a net loss for the economy if we took IBM's market cap -- $192.19B -- converted it to cash, and then funded about $200k into a graduate student's new "company" (about the money Google was funded with).
mircea_popescu: your idea is principally of the second type, and as such it requires the usual trappings of rent seeking (ie, power).
ninjashogun: And we did that with not just one graduate student (or pair), but we did it with 10,000 of them - all over the world. Per year. For 100 years.
ughlol: mircea_popescu: I agree.. yes.
ninjashogun: After you do that for 100 years, do you think you produce MORE or LESS net value for the economy than IBM's current value?
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun you have your answer ready : vcs do exactly that, and they lag the indexes.
benkay: probably less. most grad students are brainwashed rule-followers.
ninjashogun: every year 10,000 founders per year seed funded with $200K... for 100 years.
ughlol: mircea_popescu: So I would need to create an economic activity that expands the pie
ninjashogun: mirceau_popescu- not really. VC's make VERY few seed-stage investments. mostly series A.
ughlol: Is that what you're trying to tell me?
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun giving money to people for the reason that they're people never ends well.
ninjashogun: but my point is that out of those 10,000 companies per year, most years would have SEVERAL that become billion-dollar companies.
BingoBoingo: benkay: Don't forget the part where generally grad students are physically, emotionally, and morally broken... Or Aspies
mircea_popescu: africa is chiefly a shithole today because the west has been dilligently observing a progreamme of giving them "free" shit.
ninjashogun: Hell, YCombinator funds just 43 startups per year, also has seed funding of only $150K, and has already produced two billion-dollar companies (dropbox and airbnb)
ughlol: mircea_popescu: do you have any suggestions on how I may modify the idea to expand the pie instead of redistribute it?
ninjashogun: and that's with just 43 startups per year.
mircea_popescu: ughlol notrly. you're not known well enough for me to do anything like that.
Dimsler: you can blame terrorist mandela
ninjashogun: BingoBoingo, but they're often aspies who develop importnat proprietary technology.
Dimsler: for the ongoings in africa
benkay: ninjashogun: the notion that ughlol is founder material falls on its face when he dances like a monkey in here asking "how ams i even make money guys?"
mircea_popescu: stick around, learn, make sense, over time you may become useful.
benkay: but yeah, learning, working, delivering.
ughlol: mircea_popescu: done. Will do :)
ughlol: and benkay :P that was funny. lol.
benkay: glad you have a sense of humor
benkay: if only ninjashogun were educable
ninjashogun: benkay - as I probably mentioned, ughlol is not "founder material", today, in several senses. He is in India, with a very poor VC network, he is currently a university student who has never run a business, and he does not have a personal network that makes him investable. I don't necessarily suggest investing in him today.
benkay: he might learn a thing or two from you
ughlol: he was just standing up for me benkay.. :)
benkay: hey guys i'm going to copy whatsapp
ughlol slaps benkay with a stinky trout
benkay: it's going to be worth 20B 'cause facebook bought the other one for a lot of money
ughlol: do i really sound like that?
BingoBoingo: benkay: WhatSnatch, the all vag chat network
benkay: ur all gonna miss out on this one
ninjashogun: ughlol, however notice how many of those questoins are addressed if you juts create a business (with no funding) and start getitng users? Then you are already in some sense an experienced (if first-time)founder, as well as having a real track record of shipping code (sometihng benkay was asking about.)
ughlol: ninjashogun: I agree. I will get to that immediately. :)
ughlol: at least then, Dimsler might think im not just some random scammer
ughlol: they insult, bit at least I can learn something
ninjashogun: ughlol it doesn't matter what Dimsler thinks or (more likely) says
ughlol: I love you too Dimsler
ninjashogun: you can mostly learn to keep things confidential
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ninjashogun: For example, notice if instead of your actual idea you had said, you have an idea for a local app based on a new way of connecting people. Then they can't object. They would sound like idiots, because there is no way that EVERY possible local app is a bad idea.
ninjashogun: they don't really have enough information - never give them enough information to act like an idiot.
ughlol: you just have to argue huh?
ninjashogun: now you sound like you're kididng, mirceau :)
ughlol: thats what I like about rich people
ughlol: they just dont give a fuck! :D
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mircea_popescu: anyway : there isn't a magical word manipulation thing that makes businesses.
ughlol: mircea_popescu: maybe youre a mix of both?
only_: mircea not even alcohol?
ninjashogun: ughlol, above where you agreed that you should just build it (by yourself, no funding). with a web app it should be possible. thousands of people have done that.
ninjashogun: for example (this is laugh-worthy) I have just used vagrant to get a PHP server up. I've never used PHP (used Python a bit, as well as C++ and Perl).
ughlol: Yes, I'll work hard towards developing a prototype and getting users.
ninjashogun: to get from where I am today to an MVP will probably take me a month.
ughlol: maybe then mircea_popescu would be interested! :)
ninjashogun: however as I mentioned to you there are a TON of sources of interest to you once you have users.
ughlol: maybe other investors?
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun a dubious proposition. look at the recent business insider refinance,
ninjashogun: just a few include: angellist, kickstarter and indiegogo, sell gold or points, b2b deals or referral fees, there is even crypto stock if you want to raise online funds.
ughlol: and mircea_popescu, thanks for pointing out that rent-seeking thing.. I think I understand what you mean. :) I'll work on changing the idea and creating a prototype! <3
ughlol: ah well, need to go now guys
ninjashogun: what do you mean on - business insider refinance?
ughlol: will visit here more often! :D You guys are stuck up, but real fun! :D
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ughlol: I look real old dont I :/
only: much love ughlol, don't give up the good fight
ughlol: mircea_popescu: <3 ^_^
ninjashogun: just remember not to say enough to make your startup more specific than a category, then you can never receive a "no" and will interest people who can work on it or help you with it.
ninjashogun: if they're not interested you can get a firm no right away without also hearing that you're an idiot.
Dimsler: teach him how to be abetter scammer
ughlol: Will definitely keep that in mind ninjashogun! Thanks for the introduction here, and sorry that your rep went down.
ughlol: Dimsler: yeah yeah, blah. I love you too. Happy?
ughlol: Dont get butthurt because I forgot to say I love you.
ninjashogun: Dimsler, I think some aspects of recruiting cofounders, investors, and even customers, have something in common with 'scamming'. So is putting an MVP up.
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ughlol: cya later everybody! :)
ninjashogun: There was a story about an MVP with fake buttons that didn't do anything - they just said "Download as Excel File" for example and see who clikced on it to guage interest.
ughlol: bye ninjashogun, mircea_popescu, Dimsler <3, only!! :)
ninjashogun: that's a "scam" because it exposed functionality that was a lie.
ninjashogun: but it helped the startup hone in on what the market wanted.
ninjashogun: Likewise, I've talked with MANY people associated with YCombinator-backed startups (the most famous incubator) and worked for one.
ninjashogun: Many early employees report that founders are full of "half-lies".
ninjashogun: I agree. The job of a founder is to create a half-lie, and the job of the cofounders and early employees is to add the other half.
ninjashogun: + of the investers, and in some cases the customers who are early adopters and willing to put up with buggy-ass #$#@$
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun what's the problem with being called an idiot iyo ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, this vapid "half lie" model, and all the cruddy webapps/mobile apps stuff has very little life left in it, even in the fiat world.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, well the main problem is that you need to reserve your hardest edge for when you need it the most. I've spend very long hours discussing very deep technical points without calling something "idiotic". It can be broken, wrong, unexpected, totally incompatible, etc. Those words are more specific.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, and more importantly those words allow the problem to be fixed.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, my 'half-lie' model applies to everything that is new and being built.
ThickAsThieves: i did end up with some with some ATC, but haven't had the chance to keep up with it. it seems without tender loving care it cannot thrive.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what they use that as a sort of cardano ?
ninjashogun: There are a TON of errors that are always hidden and swept under the rug.
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun no , it does not. it has nothing to do with anything other than the particular way the usg implements welfare for a certain subset of the youth population.
ninjashogun: The image of a startup is like a duck -calm above the water but paddling like hell underneath.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, sorry what are you talking about not working?
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves so you're basically like thickoshi... abandoned it ?
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun none of the examples you cut out of the real world and pasted onto your model as "eventual upper bound results" have anything to do with the model itself.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, could you be more specific please!
mircea_popescu: the vc circus as you represent it has not produced facebook, has not produced google, will never produce anything.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, I'm sorry you are factually mistaken.
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ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, let's walk through it. If Facebook had been the same in every way, except Mark Zuckerberg was transplanted to be an Oxford student instead (same skills, same drive, same ideas) - what would have happened?
ThickAsThieves: if i had access to reliable and worthy crypto developers i'd have probably spat out several companies and things by now
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun counterfactuals are good for reddit masturbation. this isn't a good venue for it.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, the ansewr is very simple. he would not have gotten an investment or interest from peter thiel. Or any VC. And nobody outside of 10,000 people would know the word "facebook".
ThickAsThieves: problem is i'm not ready to commit to being a "CEO" of anything
ninjashogun: It shows you very clearly the role that VC money plays.
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ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, I've lived in Boston, New York, San Francisco, Paris, Berlin (a bit) as well as some Eastern European cities. I've been interested in startups in all of them, have worked for one in the first dot-com bubble in the 90's. I can tell the difference between different climates and how people behave in them.
mircea_popescu: you don't understand dood, i read in the guardian that the us caught a bunch of russian spies by displaying a dazzling array of technical superiority.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform remember the hot ukrainian chick ? anna whatever ?
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, let me put it to you like this. If ughlol were farther along, and actually already convinced 10 engineers at his university to be 'cofounders' for equity totalling 5%, 95% to him (which would show GREAT founder skill) and got some traction. HIs company would still probably die, and those 10 people would leave. Because he is in India.
ninjashogun: Now you repeat hte same thing in Cal Tech and he has a term sheet for $1M at $3M valuation within 3 weeks of launch.
ninjashogun: and his company may OR MAY NOT die. But if it takes off, it's (in part) due to investor sentiment.
ninjashogun: To use another example. Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak built what turned out to be $500B company in very large part on the investment climate in the area.
ninjashogun: if they were two kids doing hte same thing in just about any part of the world, they would have nothing 30 years later.
ninjashogun: I know it from trying to build a hardware business, and suddenly seeing that none of that sliver is interested.
mircea_popescu: here's a little known anecodte, kinda instructive as to the sort of guy jobs was :
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, in a lot of ways it's enshrined into the way MANY people think. Some of it is legal (only accredited investors can be targeted; accredited investors display groupthink). Other parts of it are cultural - a lot of people just feel the same way.
ozbot: Breakout (video game) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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ninjashogun: is this about the money jobs didn't share?
mircea_popescu: no, it's about wozniak working his ass straight for 700 bucks, over 4 days.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, the way I interpret that is that Steve Jobs used the $5000 to start Apple and make his friend a billionaire.
ninjashogun: More to the point - for our purposes - you would not have lent the young Steve Jobs $5000 yourself, even if he had to repay 10x the amount, 50x the amount, 100x the amount, ore ven 500x the amount (at any point in the future) All of which would have been in his power.
ninjashogun: instead, he had to scam his friend for it. Just like Zuckerberg had to scam some map guy out of $2000.
ninjashogun: steve jobs could have borrowed $5000 from you and relent 500x as much. But you wouldn't have been interested. That is $2.5M.
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ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, fine. Lend me $17,000 now and at some point in my career I will repay you 500x (8.5M). I am 30 now and it has to be in the next 30 years.
ninjashogun: I don't have to be zuck to repay $8.5M. Tens of thousands of people can do it, not just a few hundred billionaires.
BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: is roughly a pound of flesh, with reasonable blood loss acceptable security?
mircea_popescu: i wish us schools went back to teaching logic and shit instead of all this self esteem and marketing bs they do
ninjashogun: I don't htink $8.5M is a fortune. if I had that in cash today I wouldn't sit on it, I would do further startups.
ninjashogun: That doesn't mean I consider it a lot of money.
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mircea_popescu: "We survive on donations averaging about 50 lei. Now is the time we ask. If everyone reading this right now gave 25 lei, our fundraiser would be done within an hour."
mircea_popescu: they can harp about obscure currency nobody heard about, they still won't bow to bitcoin
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I don't know how to turn it into $8.5M. If I did I wouldn't be talking about the next 40 years, would I?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, likewise steve jobs did not know how to make a $500B company when he was 25.
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mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "Access to a special education classroom, often called a "self-contained classroom or resource room", is valuable to the student with a disability."
mircea_popescu: how great is this, they've invented the free lunch (again)
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I am not interested in being involved with the local mob. You seem to consider this a short-term thing, but that's not at all what I stated, is it?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, "then borrow it from whoever". Funny how that goes, isn't it? That loan is how I came into this channel. It doesn't work like that.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Cause self esteem. Seriously this shit started in the 1980's
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think you have to have a residence and income
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I'm from the USA but at the moment I'm not living there, I've been working on my proprietary hardware startup in a much lower-income country.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, yes, you are quite mistaken in your understanding that I don't like the paying back part.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, because I don't have assets?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, because I've been working on my startup for no salary?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, because banks don't consider incorporated companies with assigned intellectual property to be meaningful collateral?
ninjashogun: I don't have the time to take employment, even temporarily. Two months ago I was invited to give a demo with the working prototype as part of closing a $150K investment. I need to finish it.
ninjashogun: More to the point, at this point taking the employment you talk of would entail abandoning my team here, all of my work and living arrangements (about $150/month burn rate), as well as somehow moving to an expensive city and working full time there. My startup would cease to exist.
dub: its funny I dont get unsolicetd cards from my primary bank anymore
dub: after my house was burgled and an unopened one was used to defraud them :)
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, given my high-risk profile what APR would you (personally) extend me on between $7K-$22.5K (amount I take depends on APR) with no collateral except a registered Delaware C-Corp I'm currently full owner of (100%) going to 90% after an investment clears that I've committed to - the company has intellectual property including a patent that is pending and trademark that has been assigned, as well the equipment I
ninjashogun: would spend most of the money on can also become collateral.
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ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, yes, rent in a very small room in a very large shared apartment, is $111 (after some clever negotiation from me based on how infrequently the room could be rented out due to its size). This includes all eelectricity bills, the Internet (that I'm using now) hot water, gas, utilities.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I have no proof of income due to the fact that I have been working without pay for my startups (startup at the moment)
ninjashogun: sorry, I meant to write: without pay for my startup (and now startups) - as I started working on the jobs site one after spending more than a month trying to collect the loan I closed
mircea_popescu: well once your hardwar estart-up succeeds this will be pretty epic material.
ninjashogun: I was extended this loan (basically) we did up paperwork for it and then I've been trying to collect it for over 5 weeks without luck. I can't get back in contact wiht the person (after exchanging many forms of contact). so so much after how easy it is to get a loan.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, sorry - I don't get your analogy?
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ninjashogun: asciilifeform, oh, you liken my arrangement here to a mexican factory? Well the problem with that is that this is where the development was being done, not production. We ahve a manufacturing partner lined up actually, production will be in China.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I had to make an unbelievable amount of progress to get offered a seed round on a hardware project that has not yet been completed and has no traction.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, at this point I need the loan in order to get to the stage of prototype that the investors need to test (as part of their due dilligence also) and see in close to the final form factor.
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ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I know how one "traditionally" secures capital, but it is usually against assets such as a house, etc.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, in startups, on the other hand, it's usual to build an MVP using processes that don't scale, and without spending much money, until financing is secured.
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ozbot: S.NSA pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, did you already discuss a $7M investment, implying a valuaiton of $15M, with a VC who has recently made a $400M exit in another consumer hardware company?
ninjashogun: I don't mean to say anything about hte level of ambition you have in your hardware startup but usually a certified lab for developing ours costs $60K, which I am going to do on about $8K in used eBay equipment.
ninjashogun: (this is certified 2.4 ghz wireless equipment, this portion)
ninjashogun: Note that the wireless portion doesn't exist at all. I don't even have a specan (spectrum analyzer). The only eqiupment I developed is with large arduinos, as well as mockups of what it could look like.
ninjashogun: But you can't show an investor a mockup, and a bundle of wires, and say, imagine if the latter looked like the former!
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, again, this is why I mention that Steve Jobs (a kid who stole $5000 from his best and only friend to start Apple), Mark Zuckerberg (a guy who scammed a map website guy out of $2000 to start facebook), and Larry Page (a poor grad student who had to give $50B away in equity to get an immigrant to code up his Larry Page Rank), also did not have the means to play.They couldn't play. They did anyway.
mircea_popescu: maybe we should have a bet : katecraig wood delivers before yarvin's submarine plane stops leaking.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, fine. AirBNB had to sell Cereal. Yes Cereal. To fund their idea of a C2C ebay of Rentals.
mircea_popescu: you only know the names of these dudes because you know the names of these dudes.
ozbot: Obama O's: Hope in every bowl
mircea_popescu: you don't know the names of all the dudes that you don't know the names of.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, so how would I learn from them? What use are they to me?
mircea_popescu: well, they'd be the use to you that they'd give you a useful picture of the world.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, also, if my investors don't know of them, i can't leverage their background to get an investment, either.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 94 @ 0.00374 = 0.3516 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: generally, the prisons are full of people who perceived they can't afford to play their chosen game and decided to try and play anyway.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, I think your model is a very, very fair one under normal circumstances. (Such as the Efficient Market Hypothesis.) However, I have very deep theoretical proof that your model is mistaken, and that these founders were in fact leveraging the same opportunity inefficiency that I am.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, I don't know about the criminals, generally they're not very smart. But I do know about founders and creating something.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I was actually responding to the earlier statement (day 1: ...lottery) with my statement about his model being wrong.
ninjashogun: The lottery model of startups is simply mistaken and wrong.
ninjashogun: I don't know if it's evil or not but it's factually mistaken.
BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: That doesn't mean you can't grab a tire iron and supply a pawn shop with tvs until your enterprize is "funded"
mircea_popescu: technically speaking the cards in the deck are a deterministic machine
ninjashogun: You can convince yourself of this fact by being nearly 100% sure that more than $190B in wealth would be created if 10,000 qualified engineering and bioscience etc grad student founders were funded at $200K each for 100 years. It's not a lottery - it's just some unusual percentages.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i wonder why not more people starting businesses from inside a us prison
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, the answer is that they do not have the right socioeconomic perspective.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Net access not so much, but... mail and telephones were good enough for IBM
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, it's the same reason (to be honest) that very few Romanians found startups and that you would have had far more trouble finidng cofounders if you didnt' want to do it alone, than you would have in (for example), Berlin, Rome, Brussels, London, Paris, Tokyo, etc.....
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Maybe in limited cases, but The US isn't quite Norway or Denmark
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, that is part of what I mean
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, can you imagine doing due dilligence on a company that isn't even registered? That means only best friends can invest. Your pool of potential investors is literally limited to 7-20 people, no matter who you are in Romania. (Because that's how many people you trust through highschool.)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 106 @ 0.00374 = 0.3964 BTC [+]
ninjashogun: It's what was different about Palo Alto, for example.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, I don't mean to pick on Romania. For many of my examples I'm really thinking of Hungary, and using it as an analogy.
ninjashogun: The question isn't whether it was built - but how many Romanian cofounders or investors were on board?
ninjashogun: romania has 21M people in it, Ungary has 10M
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, well I could just ask you. Not really that interested.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29820 @ 0.00088581 = 26.4149 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: every country ends up doing something. while hungary owned porn romania owned computers.
mircea_popescu: but i know plenty of hungarian folk that really killed it in the 90s
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5282 @ 0.00088895 = 4.6954 BTC [+] {2}
ninjashogun: The ones I know that made a killing did so by immigrating to the United States :)
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, what does your hardware startup do?
ninjashogun: that first paragraph isa joke right? ("what's the idea")? like it's pseudo-lofty, right?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: That's a very good question
mircea_popescu: ninjashogun people who don't have to supervise their own humours to please a third party behave differently than the us norm.
ninjashogun: It's an intersting introduction. In the end I like it :)
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i recall he was prepping for some surgery i hope they didn't end up cutting the wrong part.
ninjashogun: I just wasn't sure if the tone is somewhat pseudo- or ironic, or it's meant to be read "straight"
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: That would be a terrible shame
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 7136 @ 0.00015003 = 1.0706 BTC [-] {7}
mircea_popescu: half why i even keep that blog, if i didn't write the shit up i'd end up forgetting it all.
ozbot: Everything you know about Ukraine is wrong | PandoDaily
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I have a suggestion for your next version. My suggestion is that the air gap with the computer be maintained, by running (a different brick) that is a wireless access point. You can connect to its wifi and use Firefox on localhost to upload and sign or upload and encrypt/decrypt files, which it would then serve back. This requires a computer with access to WIFI. However, I think in general a network stack
ninjashogun: is more resilient than a USB stack against, for example, man in the middle attacks (if someone knows that you will use that usb drive they could put a fake USB controller in that MITM attacks it.
ninjashogun: this suggestion isn't for the current version, which as a piece of hardware is great.
ninjashogun: it would also save a connect and disconnect. And can be done unobtrusively at a computer, without having to insert a USB stick.
ninjashogun: it could also come iwth storage, so that it could be used as a "wireless storage device" (thru the browser). rather than have to plug and unplug a usb stick.
mircea_popescu: to further save costs, the entire thing could be done over the web, as an app
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, Why not? assume that the other end is in the person's home. Then the wireless key is truly unusable.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, in fact it could be set to ONLY sign/encrypt/decrypt the next 1 message or 2 messages. So that it can't be stolen off someone's body, as it's in theri home and will only sign the next 2 things.
ninjashogun: I think this would be an interesting application for using one's private key without having it in one's possession.
ninjashogun: :) I undrestand what you're doing with the USB thing. However, I, personally, do not consider USB stacks to be very secure.
ninjashogun: I think there are a lot of unknowns over USB and it is a frequently underestimated attack vector, with very little security research being done.
diametric: ninjashogun: but you do configure wifi secure? lol..
ninjashogun: I think wifi security has more attention paid to it, yes. Even when it's broken. Many eyes make security deeper.
ninjashogun: But this is not to detract from what you've done, asciilifeform (and mircea_popescu ?) Overall the device is a VERY good step.
ninjashogun: and I like the basic idea of not having your key on another PC.
BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: Doesn't Wifi violate the intent of an airgap even if there is "air" involved
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so what was so bad about independence ? (trying to educate myself)
ninjashogun: BingoBoingo - you are right and for this reason I probably shouldn't ahve called it an "air" gap.
ninjashogun: BingoBoingo, however, it is absolutely doubtless that wifi protocols get roughly 100x as much security research as the usb protocol does.
BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: I mean why not some sort of cable that might only incidentally happen to function as an antenna, for which shielding is possibly. WHy demand an active antenna throwing your bits around?
ninjashogun: BingoBoingo, also, in my personal opinion as a security observer, a man in the middle attack with a PC (or laptop) being opened, and a second usb host being inserted between the real USB and the device, whose purpose is to subtlely alter what is being signed, is a very real risk.
ninjashogun: BingoBoingo, since this device as described does NOT retain the signed document in memory, it is therefore signing something without knowing what it is, if it has been transferred between the PC and storage medium.
ninjashogun: I mean it retains no knowledge of what it signed. The person can't go home and check everything they've signed.
ninjashogun: What changes with Wifi? Well, you can still have a man in the middle, but it would be much more prohibitive. It would need a complete access point that connects to the device masquarading as the computer, while exposing itself to the computer and hiding the true signal from the computer. It's possible, but more difficult. And in the end the computer can do a complete secure session (in javascript with the browser) compl
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BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: My concern with WiFi is packet capture.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, packet capture is not a concern because you can establish a higher secure channel from Firefox on the computer all the way to the final device. This is possible because hte device can have a known fingerprint.
ninjashogun: and it doesn't matter if there are devices in the way.
diametric: mircea_popescu: your email exchange with the "SEC" is fantastic.
ninjashogun: However, the current version transfers files in the plain over the USB protocol. it is 100% vulnerable to a USB mitm - which could probably be made so small that it almost fits in a usb drive.
dignork: ninjashogun, your Firefox will trust almost any certificate, unless you'd verify it manually
diametric: mircea_popescu: I enjoy your style of writing, and I wonder if she was prepared for that kind of response. I'm highly interested to see if anything else comes of it
mircea_popescu: apparently somehow they still don't see me coming, it's fascinating.
ninjashogun: dignork, it doesn't matter who firefox trusts. You can run a complete tunnel using javascript all the way to the final end-point. The whole point of PKI is that it doesn't matter who sniffs packets.
BingoBoingo: I wonder how Many interns have been charged with reading trilema nao.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo bout a dozen in the bucharest residentura.
ninjashogun: it makes sense to me. You can always assume any computer will have javascript, and a wifi.
ninjashogun: the wifi connects either a) to your device or b) to a MITM that connects to your device
dignork: ninjashogun, your javascript is downloaded by firefox, from forgeable location ... p0wned
ninjashogun: dignork - hmmm.. Well, on Mac and Linux you could do an md5sum or sha1sum on the javascript before you run it. On Windows you can only use a custom certificate, signed by yourself, and know the issuer.
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ninjashogun: asciilifeform, this is not to take anything away from cardano - I like it.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I was just suggesting some directions for version 2 or 3.
ninjashogun: (my hardware has future versions as well, that we haven't done any work toward)
ninjashogun: Overall I would suggest you consider it due to the amount of security attention that 1) the WIFI stack 2) browser communications, have received. You can leverage that.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: ninjashogun: remember to ground the faraday cage
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BingoBoingo: Like leveraged gambling... Until they come for your kneecaps
mircea_popescu: i despise the entire thinking process that got you there.
ninjashogun: Fine, you can take advantage of that; you can make us of it; you can profit from it; you can be an indirect beneficiary of it; you can depend on it; you can rely on it; you can take it for granted
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, if I can have up to a 3 year grace period I would accept that with the full $22.5K.
BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: Have you considered that rather than leveraging a complex behemoth of other people's work which was produced with the potential of malice towards your intended cause, you could just make something simpler.
ninjashogun: BingoBoingo - I always consider the simplest hting that could possibly work.
BingoBoingo: Wifi and browsers are never the simplest things
ninjashogun: I disagree, I think firefox running javascript is one of the simplest things to develop and target 100% of PC's with. Also it would work on some tablets, which have no USB subcomponent at all, but do have copy and paste and wifi connections.
BingoBoingo: For all of the "work" on Wifi and browser security neither is particularly secure
ozbot: Mozilla Firefox is exploited four times at HP's Pwn2own hacking contest- The Inquirer
ninjashogun: on an iPad and iPhone, you can copy the text, connect to the brick's wifi, paste it, copy the result, and then reconnect to your normal wifi. These things don't have a USB stack at all.
BingoBoingo: Sure, but your wifi broadcast traves how far from its point of origin?
ninjashogun: Again, it doesn't matter if you reimplement PKI over javascript.
BingoBoingo: Then your browser can scarcely sandbox javascript?
ninjashogun: I don't think packet sniffing is a problem if you tunnel over it.
ninjashogun: Again, none of this is to take away from the design as I've already read about it here. I like it a lot.
dignork: ninjashogun, alternatively, you could tunnel over usb
ninjashogun: dignork - yes, it would also be a good idea.
ninjashogun: dignork - but then they could no longer treat it as a mass-storage device.
BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: I'm not defending his design. I'm am suggesting your "improvements" are abominable
BingoBoingo: Honestly the improvement from USB would probably be RS-232
ninjashogun: BingoBoingo - I learned of this literally 20 minutes ago. My improvements already have something that can at least theoretically work with an iPad and iPhone, which loads of people do their surfing on in the evening, and certainly don't want to keep keys on.
ninjashogun: you're on the couch on your iPad, want to sign something an email it. Are you going to keep your key on your iPad?
BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: Are you familiar with the actual concept of an airgap.
ninjashogun: BingoBoingo, Yes, I am. I realize this is not an airgap.
ozbot: How to airgap. A practical guide. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
BingoBoingo: It isn't just about the definition of an airgap, but of the motivations behind it as well that make radio the wrong medium for connecting to such boxes
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ninjashogun: on
http://trilema.com/2013/how-to-airgap-a-practical-guide/ - I would also suggest running several copies of hte same hardware next to each other. If they're all doing something, how is someone going to know which is the one that is of interest. This can even subvert someone physically ocming in and using it in your absence.
ninjashogun: also the EM radiation might be similar when coming off of several similar computers.
BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: Or just blast the area with cheap crt tv's playing reality shows, sound off.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, by the way don't let the haters take anyting away. All of my suggestoin are at a single layer - and do not in ANY way impact the basic idea you've come up with with mircea_popescu --- which is a VERY good one. I don't really add anything in my suggestoins - it is the same design. You should patent it.
ninjashogun: the basic thing that you came up with is an escrowed key service embodied in a physical device that does not disclose the key, but uses it and discloses the result. This is a very good invention.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform - how could it be kept from the public? Wouldn't every electrical engineer with a scope see it?
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ninjashogun: asciilifeform, the fact is, if you want to get this into millions of people's hands you will have to invest half a million in research and manufacturing. it could be the only secure device in their whole household (if they run windows.)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually dr semmelweis is a major moment in the cultural history of medicine
mircea_popescu: when otherwise nice, smart guys realised that they had literally killed hundreds of women
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, if you have to compete with Kingston copying your idea then you are dead in the water. You can't even make it to market.
ninjashogun: maybe 20 years is too long for a patent to be valid - then consider donating it after 3 years or 7 years. You can assign it to a protective Open Source patent fund.
BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: I think the point of the Cardano is it serves people who can not even entirely trust the security of *nix systems
ninjashogun: BingoBoingo, I like it. It's also something you can unobtrusively carry around.
BingoBoingo: Generally that distrust is the sort that comes from an abundance rather than a dearth of knowledge
mircea_popescu: "it made me so miserable that life seemed worthless" and so on
ninjashogun: BingoBoingo - in the eventual wifi version, no one would have to know that you even use it. if being surveilled by site, it wouldn't be obvious that it's on your person. (or whether it is).
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, that's not true. They don't like to innovate.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, but they do love to use other people's innovations.
dignork: ninjashogun, take RasPI, hook up wifi dongle and build one, maybe someone will buy, why arguing?
ninjashogun: dignork - you misinterpret my tone if you think I'm arguing. I like the idea of the Cardano very much, I think it's a genuine, useful, good, and non-obvious innovation, and I encourage asciilifeform in building it and getting it to market.
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ozbot: Mircea Popescu: “The SEC Won’t Let Me Be.” Or, “I’ve Been Expecting You.” | When Bitcoin
ozbot: Loper OS » Don’t Blame the Mice.
ninjashogun: dignork - further I don't have any problem with it in the current form. I think asciilifeform should patent it. I also suggest he work on just one layer of the solution, which is the physical transport layer, and consider bluetooth or wifi.
mircea_popescu: bitcoinpete now the work of submitting to hn and the smokinggun and so on begins :D
ninjashogun: dignork, after selling thousands of this one :)
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I told you? You can consider the link totally insecure and still use it....?
dignork: ninjashogun, you missed the point, transmission creates side-channel leak
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, the way a tunnelled layer works, is it's OK to give a copy of every bit to an Evesdropper, they still can't make out the plain text.
ninjashogun: dignork - are you saying that hte presence of WIFI will leak the CPU state?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, are you saying that the presence of WIFI will leak the CPU?
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, the paper that proved that also suggested mitigation strategies...
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, OK. If you think it is impossible to prevent WIFI from broadcasting the full contents of the CPU and RAM then you would have to design around it to make my suggestion possible, which may be too difficult.
bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu cool. just submitted it to smokinggun. what's hn?
ninjashogun: BingoBoingo: I hate to be the one to break it to you. I thought you heard. /. had a stroke and is in a nurinsg home :(
diametric: mircea_popescu: that picture is fantastic, i was literally just having a conversation about redheads with someone moments ago.
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diametric: Login to see how many imaginary coins you had
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I get your point but obviously if you can learn a single bit of a key, you can learn them all. Not one bit should be leaked, ever.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, anything that leaked one bit, could be repeated until you have them all. It only works if you can't learn any of them, except by brute-forcing all of them together.
ozbot: The Techtopus: How Silicon Valley’s most celebrated CEOs conspired to drive down 100,000 tech engi
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, further, as a practical matter you are not being asked to transmit a real key. You are just transmitting a stupid session key that is used to sign a single document. And if that session key is used in javascript, which is VERY far from the metal (it's a VM, running in interpreter, JS running in a C++ program, firefox, running on Windows) you would have to have insnae precision on learning exact CPU state.
mircea_popescu: lmao this reminds me of the original tucker max wage fixing story.
ninjashogun: asciilifeform, I don't even mena to "sign" a single document. Just to transmit it. And receive back hte signed version.
ninjashogun: personally anyone who could bruteforce all that, while breaking wireless encyrption and your whole network stack, can see the damn document as far as I'm concerned. and they still wouldn't have my private key.
BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: Maybe you are the wrong audience as you aren't concerned very far
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dignork: ninjashogun, as simple as possible, wifi transmitter on key-storage device will leak cpu state of key-handling process, game over.
ninjashogun: dignork - but above and beyond what the computer leaks anyway by itself?
ninjashogun: dignork - because all computers obviously already leak some information through faint EM
dignork: ninjashogun, so you keep your key off your computer, to avoid exactly that
ninjashogun: dignork - if what you are saying is true than there should be a huge market for a USB wifi stick that is just 8 feet of shielded USB cable with a power conditioner on either end, so that your wifi transmission happens the fuck away from your CPU.
dignork: ninjashogun, that's because a) people store useless trash on their systems and don't care/ b) they calculate the risks and live with it
dignork: ninjashogun, c) they're idiots
mircea_popescu: you're in a very poor position to evaluate any of these contingencies.
ninjashogun: I guess I could radically underestimate how much CPU state a wifi transmission can carry away.
ninjashogun: it's just that a CPU does so much, you know? it's 2 or 4 cores at 4 ghz with megabytes of just CPU cache and then hundreds of megabytes of active ram and programs
mircea_popescu: no, you could radically overestimate how much you understand of what's being discussed.
ninjashogun: I'm trying to invest in some 2.4 ghz wireless equipment (spectrum analyzer among other things) and would be the first time I use one.
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ninjashogun: I'm currently developing a wireless version of my prototype, and it is true that I am still learning it.
bitcoinpete: Haven't used HN before, but here's my shot at it.
dignork: ninjashogun, let's say it's a complicated attack, and it costs 1M$, which you don't have, then you can safely assume you shouldn't care :)
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ninjashogun: anyway I'd think there's a market for in-between, people (like me) who don't care that much, but would rather not keep a key on a PC
dignork: ninjashogun, but 1M$ is overestimation, if it costs 10K$, should you care?
Duffer1: ninja but why would i buy yours over the cardano?
ninjashogun: Duffer1 - it' snot 'mine'. It's a feature suggestion for the cardano v2 or v3. it's still the cardano. 95% would be the same, including the basic invention that they described.
ThickAsThieves: ninjashogun ir probly furuknap or some other past annoyance
mircea_popescu: old people buy spamvertised dietary supplements and so on
ninjashogun: I'm Robert, as I mentioned. I hadn't talked to you guys before.
ninjashogun: I stopped coming here and returned due to ughlol mentioning it. I think you guys are mostly trolling in here (which is fine).
ninjashogun: When I had been coming in here it was following an experience over a similar channel (related to doge) on a loan. As someone here (asciilifeform?) explained, I should have 'no problem' getting a loan of $20K. In fact I did have "no problem" on it, but in the end I couldn't collect it, and had come in here over a few days to see if anyone were interested in the same.
Duffer1: ah, i have indeed heard of people drowning fighting their rescuers
ThickAsThieves: ughlol and shogun made it easy to be dismissed, they started every conversation with their hands out
mircea_popescu: so now stfu for a few months and spend hours reading the logs.
ninjashogun: ThickAsThieves, I read your links. I didn't start any more conversations though.
mircea_popescu: mebbe by autumn i feel like clearing my ignore list again or something.
gribble: nubbins` was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 hours, 10 minutes, and 25 seconds ago: <nubbins`> most people don't get that far
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.052 = 0.26 BTC [+]
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cazalla: BingoBongo: looks like heisenberg
mircea_popescu: "Two U.S. Air Force commanders in the 422nd Air Base Group at RAF Croughton have been relieved over a loss of confidence in their abilities."
mircea_popescu: may have something to do with all the drones the us lost in the ukraine.
ThickAsThieves: do you think a scientist stating evolution is a fact is arrogant?
mircea_popescu: turns out they are kinda useless in actual military operations.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.0038 = 0.38 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: The problem with drones is it is way to tempting to stick them in places where they don't belong.
mircea_popescu: i guess people in the us are so starstruck with "technology" they forget they're just little radio planes.
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assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 28 @ 0.05265349 = 1.4743 BTC [+] {4}
dignork: asciilifeform, do you mean the story with fake gps transmitters, which diverted drone?
mircea_popescu: the word around the backchannels is that the usaf gets back about 2/3 of the drones it sends out
mircea_popescu: and if this keeps up for another 3-4 years the rest of the world will own more drones than the usg.
dignork: asciilifeform, i loled about this story with my friend who builds them for non-US army, and she said that it won't work with their drones, cz they'll fallback into gps-less mode, once there will be delta between compass/altimeter and gps readings
mircea_popescu: but on large icmb type of things. tehy've not really fittedf it to the 10lb shits yet
dignork: asciilifeform, US considers shutting off gps in some cases, so pbbly their drones can work gps-less too.
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mircea_popescu: many countless ways to throw camnav for a loop, including lulzy things like silly strings
mircea_popescu: i'/d suggest you try this theory out, but instead just lie down D:
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dignork: asciilifeform, i tried 3-axis chip, it had a huge margin of error on a toy q-copter :(
ozbot: Warren Buffett says he wants to pay more tax (then structures a deal to ensure he does the exact opp
BingoBoingo: WHat's that thing you say "If you can, you must"
mircea_popescu: this pando stuff is like a breath of fresh air, it almost reads like press from before digital ruined it all.
mircea_popescu: "OP, I know cryptostocks makes it seem as though starting your very own security is a sort of past time accessible to anyone who'd like to try, sort of like adopting a pet fish. This has nothing to do with bitcoin securities in fact and everything to do with play-pretend exchanges exploiting those who'd like to try but aren't ready for one reason or another."
Duffer1: is she not already on payroll?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06894978 = 0.1379 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.00382 = 0.382 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46814 @ 0.00089084 = 41.7038 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.06894986 = 0.1379 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.0059705 = 0.2985 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30497 @ 0.00089043 = 27.1554 BTC [-]
benderp: so i dunno what happened but i pooped out a 3kword monster
benderp: it's kinda rough as these airplane pieces can be
ozbot: The SEC doth breach itself upon the rocks of MPEx, and Popescu himself
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 87 @ 0.003849 = 0.3349 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 173 @ 0.00385 = 0.6661 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: meanwhile back at the ranch, bitbet invented a whole new kind of hell.
ozbot: BitBet - Bitcoin to surpass Berkshire as an investment
bitcoinpete: benderp: fantastic article. quite enjoyed "engaging in nefarious activity to palp the testicular fortitude of the people who matter and actually set policy in Bitcoin"