Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2013-12-14 | 2013-12-16 → ↓
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 766 @ 0.00222492 = 1.7043 BTC [-] {17}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1010 @ 0.001 = 1.01 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34800 @ 0.00090477 = 31.486 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25750 @ 0.00090477 = 23.2978 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19945 @ 0.00090493 = 18.0488 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12554 @ 0.00090562 = 11.3692 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88900 @ 0.00090571 = 80.5176 BTC [+] {2}
copumpkin: someone's bullish on MPOE :)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.24428999 = 2.4429 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 20 @ 0.24158949 = 4.8318 BTC [-] {8}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47900 @ 0.00090306 = 43.2566 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.24 = 0.48 BTC [-] {2}
thestringpuller: hashtag mod6
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17090 @ 0.00090359 = 15.4424 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5540 @ 0.00090324 = 5.0039 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13850 @ 0.00090309 = 12.5078 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 26 @ 0.25220829 = 6.5574 BTC [+] {7}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15541 @ 0.0009023 = 14.0226 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.26762999 = 2.6763 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.2677 BTC [+]
Vexual: will these kids know if i buy finely hopped beer instead of vet treatment for my cancerous canine with my doge profits?
assbot: [MPEX] [O] [O.USD.P140T] 8 @ 0.11570692 = 0.9257 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [O] [O.USD.P125T] 11 @ 0.08898885 = 0.9789 BTC [+]
Vexual: a new wave of crypto kids
Vexual: perhaps a new block viewer instance
Vexual: hahhaha
Vexual: what a week its been
Vexual: honestly im scared to sell any bitcoin incae the foundation says i dont have enough to send
Vexual: foundation is getting everyone ready for 9..
Vexual: dogecoin happened
Vexual: 12000 reserve banks made statements about bitcoin, where the sum total of the info was no
Vexual: ne
Vexual: and i got arrested
Vexual: just drunk and disorderly tho, so its hardly news
Vexual: so despite my interlude with toothless father stabbers and seemingly comatose quiet lovers, i still didnt make it to an airport to buy fortune for future signature
Duffer1: assbot is a good listener bro
Vexual: silly duffer
Vexual: <3
Vexual: i guess cuba is still a dream
Duffer1: what's in cuba?
Duffer1: so you were on your way to cuba but got too drunk instead then got picked up by the cops?
Vexual: no i was fairly in my own house believe it or not
Duffer1: ouch
Vexual: i goty lippy and was assisted on to public property where i duly remained lippy knowing the extent of the facism
Duffer1: man that shit should be illegal
Vexual: u new?
Duffer1: ha no just lucky, and quiet
Vexual: me too, now
Duffer1: anyone underage on your property?
Duffer1: when i happened i mean
Vexual: fuck no
Duffer1: good man
Vexual: lol
Vexual: just me no bail
Vexual: just the drunk tank
Duffer1: you were alone? i just assumed you threw a party
Vexual: noone came
Duffer1: how do you get drunk n disorderly from you own home, alone?
Vexual: did you say how often?
BingoBoingo: "Disorderly" is merely legal speak for "We don't much like you"
Vexual: finished work? yeah, i do computer stuff
Vexual: i had you pegged as a musician
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7961 @ 0.00090294 = 7.1883 BTC [+]
Vexual: bella, pour the drinks
Vexual: got a dollar for the junkbox?
Vexual: my eyes are up here
Vexual: you're cybering yourself
Vexual: shhhhh
Vexual: no handel?
Duffer1: assbot doesn't give very good text though :(
Vexual: i dunno, i like to see those coins moving
Duffer1: she's just so robotic about it, hard to get into it you know
Vexual: i always felt assbot was masculine
Duffer1: we may never know for sure
b0n1: hey there! I try to export trading data from bitstamp with sierracharts but strangely i get inhomogenous time steps
Vexual: i think if a bot is female, one knows
b0n1: that means i have a measurement point at t and the next is at t+x and the other next is at t+y with x=!y
b0n1: really strange
b0n1: someone made similar experience?
Vexual: i felt the milk out for a time step that left in inhomogenous
Duffer1: try searching bitcointalk forums, there's good spreadsheet tips around there
Vexual: u might want to hit up the work forums about taking spreadsheet skills off your resume too
Vexual: *word
jurov: SPREADSHEET KILLS
Vexual: dont they
Vexual: when you atart to need macros, geesh
BingoBoingo: Csv, Ftw!
Vexual: so no handel?
ozbot: Bingo Bango - Basement Jaxx - YouTube
Vexual: can i get some $2 coins and the snooker balls?
Vexual: just 8 ball
Vexual: bottom shelf, there, thats it, way down low, mick said it was okay
Vexual: u never played snooker?
Vexual: well u bend it like beckham, thanks for the coins
BingoBoingo: Usually I just play 8 ball
Vexual: 8 ball is goode
ozbot: The Toadies - Possum Kingdom - YouTube
ozbot: Bob Dylan - Duquesne Whistle - YouTube
Duffer1: bob dylan - brownsville girl
Vexual: still one song left on $2
Vexual: kako should make a junkox bot
Vexual: pay to play
ozbot: Flight Facilities - Crave you Feat. Giselle [Official Video] - YouTube
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57900 @ 0.00090447 = 52.3688 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30650 @ 0.00090164 = 27.6353 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 250 @ 0.001 = 0.25 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 25 @ 0.03474022 = 0.8685 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 54 @ 0.00220371 = 0.119 BTC [-] {2}
azoo: is this havelock company legit?
BingoBoingo: azoo: Looking less like it every day
azoo: BingoBoingo: why
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 277 @ 0.00221 = 0.6122 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 150 @ 0.0022 = 0.33 BTC [-] {3}
Duffer1: none of the assets they offer have come close to matching btc itself
Duffer1: most of their offers haven't even started paying divs
Duffer1: it's like a bitcoin blackhole
mircea_popescu: azoo no havelock company is legit,
mircea_popescu: havelock itself is run as a scam by scammers.
Duffer1: like a bitcoin cocain straw, your money is their blow
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 74 @ 0.00220955 = 0.1635 BTC [+] {2}
azoo: to matching btc istself.. what do you mean by that?
azoo: mircea_popescu: can you back this by some facts?
Duffer1: the appreciation of bitcoin in fiat outpaced value appreciation of all of havelocks offerings
Duffer1: by a mile, it's not even close
mircea_popescu: azoo sure. they reorganised as a entity run by "no one", recently. after which they allowed their largest company (virtex) to simply walk away from the investors
mircea_popescu: collected >4k btc this year, paid no dividends, is now gone.
Apocalyptic: mircea, but you can have real shares now !
mircea_popescu: otherwise, the statistical argument Duffer1 presents is sound. they never had a company that made investors a profit, and statisticallty they're batting the usual global scam exchange, -50% in 1/2 year.
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic for any value of real that equals worthless.
Apocalyptic: i'm just trolling
mircea_popescu: oiknow :)
azoo: mircea_popescu: i am also considering (your?) mpoex site but its less obvious what is what:-)
azoo: mircea_popescu: is mpoex a scam as well
azoo: ?
mircea_popescu: so read the contracts or w/e.
mircea_popescu: also it's MPEx.
Apocalyptic: azoo, you're mixing 2 things up, there's no mpoex but mpex and mpoe
mircea_popescu: but to give you a proper sense of proportion : when s.dice delisted from mpex, it was actually announced it got sold off, rather than lie about it a la havelock. and then mpex investors got paid on the delisting.
mircea_popescu: this was someting a degree of magnitude larger, too.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 4 @ 0.03099999 = 0.124 BTC [-]
azi_: can someone paste the recent chat I got DC'ed
mircea_popescu: because as far as bitcoin finance is concerned, mpex is now and always was a hefty 90% of it.
azi_: last thing I got was someone saying I am confusing somethig
azi_: good
azi_: mircea_popescu: thanks. can you explain what this S.NSA thing is?
mircea_popescu: it's a company trying to make various gizmos. currently working on a gpg secure usb stick
ozbot: S.NSA pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
KRS|Gotyawallet: i like S.NSA
mircea_popescu: "It is possible to do scrypt with a fpga, so that implies asic is possible too."
mircea_popescu: kinda funny
ozbot: BitBet - LiteCoin (LTC) to over $1B market cap before Jan 15
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 2 @ 0.1 = 0.2 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: altcoins worth more than most us businesses now ?
Apocalyptic: coblee must be in heaven
mircea_popescu: defo. he premined a lot ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15083 @ 0.00090484 = 13.6477 BTC [+] {2}
Duffer1: 696m that's impressive
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I believe the reading from this spring was he an Artforz were GPU mining on launch, so not pre-mining but something similar.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i know, i know. just pushing teh button a little :)
KRS|Gotyawallet: yes i think asic is possible too
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12517 @ 0.00090574 = 11.3371 BTC [+]
KRS|Gotyawallet: not sure if they would have to use a jit translation before prossessing or not though
BingoBoingo: I'm just impressed how quickly people for got it. Like people forgot SolidCoin was a thing RealSolid did. Or that Vircurex was "hacked" twice and now wants to pay interest on deposits...
mircea_popescu: asic is not efficient, not really, cause you'll need to add memory bus and a bunch of clocking and so on
mircea_popescu: fpga + ram much better solution
mircea_popescu: unless you own a foundry, anyway.
Apocalyptic: BingoBoingo, that amazes me as well
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it's not that anyone forgot. it's that nobody of the idiots going for such things makes it long enough
mircea_popescu: so it's always new people falling for the scams.
Duffer1: and foreigners
BingoBoingo: I'm actually amazed by how often I'll run into people on lesser channels who have been trying to make milk come out of faucets for months then emerge after having done no reading for a year to ask "Why do faucets pay less?"
KRS|Gotyawallet: Here's the part that gets me: The proof-of-work would be switched to the signature of our private key and we would set up a server to produce one block every 2 minutes.
mircea_popescu: KRS|Gotyawallet where's that ?
KRS|Gotyawallet: i pasted the linke ^^
mircea_popescu: lol bitsharestalk ? srsly ?
KRS|Gotyawallet: reading the rags
mircea_popescu: lmao. fucktard.
mircea_popescu: "1) Mining based upon resource consumption results in centralization."
mircea_popescu: noob puts on pope hat, makes blood-curdingly stupid general statement with all the authority of stupidity.
mircea_popescu: anyway, to get back to the prev point, the way it usually works is like this : muppet (usually young, ambitious, socially marginal character) finds out about bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: within a day he's bouight some, and spends the next few days not sleeping enough and reading bullshit sources a la reddit.
mircea_popescu: within a week he's put most of his available cash into it, and is getting to a manic phase
mircea_popescu: so by now he's ripe for the plunder. makes some "investments" on the power of social proof, gets raped, gets depressed and gets to hear from all the (few) people in his life about how he failed again
mircea_popescu: after all, he ain't socially marginal for nothing, he's socially marginal because he has mental habits that don't promote success.
mircea_popescu: and that's all, it took three weeks. next month, new guy hears about bitcoin.
BingoBoingo: Lol, Maybe someone ought to sell Lithium Soda for BTC
mircea_popescu: except he wouldn't take it.
mircea_popescu: mpoe-pr sells lithium soda. our noob is more likely to ignore her.
Duffer1: and they don't even know you're actually trying to help them by paying her to do it
mircea_popescu: well some figure it out eventually.
mircea_popescu: upon rereading, KRS|Gotyawallet you realise "lmao fucktard" didn't mean you but the quoted kid.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 56 @ 0.00250035 = 0.14 BTC [-] {5}
mircea_popescu: internets be misinterpretable i tell ya.
mircea_popescu: so, pre-announcement :
mircea_popescu: mpoe-pr just completed a 3 month long project of going through the forum and picking out the places where she called out a scam, people called her fud and then it turned out she was right.
mircea_popescu: it's like a mile long, and i;ll be publishing it soon.
KRS|Gotyawallet: People are going to continue to get hurt here.
Apocalyptic: heh, nice
mircea_popescu: so prepare a large mug of coffee, set your poppers to poppin' corn etc.
Duffer1: i hope you inlude that xxxprofit guy lol man.. what balls
KRS|Gotyawallet: This is just the beginning it seems..and i thought the offerings were maturing, we're turning the dial back to flat out retarded.
azoo: who are you guys talking about
azoo: looks like a nice success story :)
Duffer1: pretty much everyone azoo hehe
KRS|Gotyawallet: Yep. Duffer1- a Zoo
Duffer1: are there any instances where she was wrong?
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 not really.
mircea_popescu: she never called mpex stuff a scam, and that's everyone.
Duffer1: that's actually really depressing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25800 @ 0.00090574 = 23.3681 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.05 = 1 BTC
azoo: mircea_popescu: how does one actually buy shares on your site?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3950 @ 0.00090574 = 3.5777 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: dja read the faq ?
truffles: its a tarp
azoo: yeah i've already went to read the FAQ once
azoo: but it looked weird
mircea_popescu: well see, the idea is that people to whom it looks weird don't get to buy.
azoo: looked weird = as watching fear and loathing in las vegas :)
Duffer1: azoo try coinbr
pigeons: yeah mermaids aren't weird
mircea_popescu: well... they float, they got tits...
mircea_popescu: seems oddly apt as a symbol for finance.
pigeons: should make an exact mpex clone with no new functionality just charge 5% to view it in a bootstrap template
azoo: forget about shares.. i'll just become a MPEx affiliate http://mpex.co/faq.html#13
azoo: earning 5BC in a simple as pie fashion :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20561 @ 0.00090661 = 18.6408 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: people have been known to do that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20400 @ 0.00090681 = 18.4989 BTC [+]
azoo: i think i fall into your category of idiots as i am still wondering if the 30BTC fee is a joke, troll, serious requirement or all of the tree
azoo: three*
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.24155555 = 2.174 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10188 @ 0.00090814 = 9.2521 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00090821 = 4.2686 BTC [+]
azoo: zivijo kakobrekla
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1477 @ 0.001 = 1.477 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.24 = 1.2 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30673 @ 0.00090425 = 27.7361 BTC [-] {3}
kakobrekla: zivjo azoo
kakobrekla: kaj bo dobrega :)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.05 = 0.5 BTC
azoo: hm.. kakobreku...
mircea_popescu: azoo you familiar with the concept of "qualiified investor" ?
azoo: mircea_popescu: yes i've read about that sutff just now and it makes more sense
azoo: tho its quite pricy now that BC rised so much
mircea_popescu: it's still 30 btc.
azoo: yes
azoo: this is what i like about the site
azoo: but its a pain in the as as well as you also can understand I suppose
mircea_popescu: qualified investor. technologically and financially.
azoo: or qualified by luck
azoo: which is life I suppose :-)
mircea_popescu: luck always plays a part, in everythi8ng worth doing
mircea_popescu: but you're right, if you were here march-april 2012 you could have had one for free
mircea_popescu: some people did.
mircea_popescu: strangely enough, they all also knew one of python/perl/bash, had gpg sigs and are now rich.
mircea_popescu: so what i mean is... they still meet the quals, in spite of so much changing in the interim
mircea_popescu: funny how that works.
azoo: yeah I mean the site itself would drive off anyone not fammiliar with this stuff
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1000 @ 0.001 = 1 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 100 @ 0.05 = 5 BTC
mircea_popescu: well... they're all rich except kako. he just drives very expensive cars.
kakobrekla: lmao FU :D
azoo: btw when u talk about richeness you're again relating it to $$
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22385 @ 0.00090199 = 20.191 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2150 @ 0.00090105 = 1.9373 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16085 @ 0.00090186 = 14.5064 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26600 @ 0.00090186 = 23.9895 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 200 @ 0.002825 = 0.565 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 1000 @ 0.00049998 = 0.5 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 300 @ 0.00282957 = 0.8489 BTC [+] {3}
ozbot: Perfect money corrupts absolutely pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: check out this schmuck.
mircea_popescu: since summer with this.
kakobrekla: im thinking, XVII + nineteen would prolly stop him
mircea_popescu: but my point is... so some kid gets out of school in june and wants to become a man over the summer.
mircea_popescu: some try to get laid, others try to get rich
mircea_popescu: shouldn't he be back to writing homework by now ?
kakobrekla: its just spam
mircea_popescu: nah, it's hand written
kakobrekla: hand written spam.
mircea_popescu: almost like the hand-run compiler.
kakobrekla: well, you can hand power a dynamo and use that to power the compiler.
kakobrekla: just fyi.
mircea_popescu: ooooor, you could cock-power a dynamo
mircea_popescu: and use the ooze for coolant too.
kakobrekla: i dont have that sort of cock.
mircea_popescu: internet epeen competition. "save the whales, power your compiler".
kakobrekla: anyway as the workforce gets cheaper i dont see why you wouldnt see hand written spam for a non outofthebox codebase sites
kakobrekla: even assets suffers spam
kakobrekla: assbot excluded
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20399 @ 0.00090205 = 18.4009 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: except trilema is quite out of the box.
kakobrekla: one more reason you need humans to do it
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 9 @ 0.02281001 = 0.2053 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: everytime I install litecoin related software it's all Kapersky is all "MALWARE DETECTED, WARNING SOMEONE TRYNNA STEAL YO BITCOINS"
thestringpuller: Litecoins grestest long-run scam ever to deploy worms to steal btc?
thestringpuller: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 275066 | Current Difficulty: 9.08350862437022E8 | Next Difficulty At Block: 276191 | Next Difficulty In: 1125 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 5 days, 19 hours, 10 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1104677340.74 | Estimated Percent Change: 21.61351
thestringpuller: ;;estimate
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 1104677340.74 based on data since last change | 1186210790.64 based on data for last three days
pankkake: new litecoin version failed to replace a "Bitcoin" string
pankkake: so that diff bet is pretty much done? :(
dexX7: yup, you are screwed
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.05 = 1 BTC
dexX7: ;)
pankkake: I feel like I have read that article ten times already
mircea_popescu: pankkake more like 10`000 times.
mircea_popescu: i see that, what i read is "i am a noob, hear my uninformed convictions and care enough about my worthless persona to set me straight"
mircea_popescu: as if it makes a difference, srsly.
KRS|Gotyawallet: pankkake date on that article makes it almost exactly 12 hours old
KRS|Gotyawallet: there have been others?
pankkake: that's not what I meant KRS. I specifically saw it was new, but it has nothing new, and the same broken arguments were exposed before
pankkake: the "prices fell during the depression so prices falling is bad" is soโ€ฆ how do you even logic
thestringpuller: What Bitcoin really needs is a central bank to stabilize its value. When the demand for Bitcoin goes up, they need to print more to keep it from skyrocketing. That is, they need to decide whether they want Bitcoin to be a Ponzi scheme for techno-libertarians or an actual medium of exchange.
thestringpuller: Not even my puppy is that uninformed.
thestringpuller: Middle schoolers are more informed....
pankkake: of course, because they haven't been actively misinformed yet :)
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: this is less of "i'm a n00b" and more of "i have no idea how economics really work and believe we should just print more money so we can fix our bad debts. Make it rain Ben Bernanke while I suck your dick."
mircea_popescu: imo that's a noob.
thestringpuller: lol ignorance == n00b?
pankkake: there's the humble noob and the entitled noob
mircea_popescu: isn;'t that the definition ?
thestringpuller: there's hope for n00bs cause MAY be able to teach them
mircea_popescu: there's nothing new in this world except for the history you don't know.
mircea_popescu: pankkake yeah, noobs handle their ignorance differently. but still, how else do you know a noob's a noob ? by their ignorance.
KRS|Gotyawallet: ignorance != noob..matters are that said noob did not get the memo
pankkake: so noobs are ignorants that didn't lurk moar
KRS|Gotyawallet: noobs get the memo then noob on in light of that
KRS|Gotyawallet: lol pankkake
mircea_popescu: i guess there's newbs and then there's noobs.
pankkake: it's not a joke
pankkake: right
KRS|Gotyawallet: entertaining conversation..kind of relaxing watching the lemmings isnt it
pankkake: lurking moar should be taught in school
mircea_popescu: and im halfway through this fucking thing.
mircea_popescu: it's 100kb ;/
sbp: "bitcoin entered the world on Jan. 3, 2009, when a shadowy hacker โ€” or team of hackers โ€” working under the name Satoshi Nakamoto released an ingenious string of computer code" โ€” http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/sunday-review/the-bitcoin-ideology.html
sbp: 2013, the media still hasn't caught up with programming, let alone bitcoin
mircea_popescu: it won't ever happen.
mircea_popescu: if they had the mental power to catch up they'd be doing better money than whatever foodstamps "the press" pays.
asciilifeform: 'the camel has two humps.'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60863 @ 0.00090095 = 54.8345 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: short version: factory-OEM human brain doesn't deal in abstraction.
asciilifeform: electronic or otherwise.
asciilifeform: see also 'the cold equations.' (tom godwin, 1954.)
mircea_popescu: bitcoin actually happens to be a two hump sifter.
mircea_popescu: i wasn't kidding when i said they're turning into niggers.
mircea_popescu: what bitcoin does is it meaningfully sepparates the population, and i see nobody credibly arguing for extending human status past the 2nd bump
asciilifeform: it's at least as much of a sifter as abstract algebra.
pankkake: "most people can't learn to program" is really true. but it goes against the egalitarian ideology "you can do anything"
asciilifeform: and these sample people think that training circus animals is cruel.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no. because abstract algebra does not allocate resources
kakobrekla: > โ€ข8% of students didn't give a damn and left the answers blank.
asciilifeform: with bitcoin we have sorter and sifter in one.
mircea_popescu: it went from "indicator light" (algebra) to "execution squad" (bitcoin)
mircea_popescu: quite different.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: the real shocker was that the 'back hump' did not cough up a model of the problem. even a wrong one.
mircea_popescu: why is this a shiocker ? or in what perspective ?
asciilifeform: their answers did not sum up to a consistent picture of anything. even a mistaken picture.
asciilifeform: a shocker for the teacher, not for me in particular
mircea_popescu: you seen the pictures of spider;s webs made by high spiders ?
asciilifeform: people who can't (or won't) do arithmetic and turn into the Financially Sad are nothing new
mircea_popescu: if the box ain't functioning, there's no guarantee you end up with a web. even a not working one.
asciilifeform: but the study of the underlying pathology is useful.
asciilifeform: correct.
mircea_popescu: pankkake you were saying a few days ago about being disgusted with ppl lauding scams just because they hope they get a little back ? where is it, i want to quote it.
ozbot: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings
pankkake: you've got to see the custom mining hardware forum too, where shareholders shill for their companies that are not shipping
nubbins`: custom mining sub is brutal
ozbot: [VMC] Poll: Have you Received Shipping Notification?
mircea_popescu: yes it was on irc
mircea_popescu: i don't rly read the forum
mircea_popescu: lmao, so anything to avoid an actual delivery bet huh ? we make a fake bitbet out of forum paste & spit, pretend and pray.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.05 = 1 BTC
nubbins`: the bitcoin "community" in general is a cesspool of stupidity and frottage
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.25 = 1.25 BTC [+]
ozbot: MPOE-PR, almost two years in the swamp. An anthology. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://www.cs.mdx.ac.uk/research/PhDArea/saeed/ << the paper chorror references has mysteriously disappeared in tjhe meanwhile.
nubbins`: this will be equal parts comedy and tragedy
mircea_popescu: instead ? some gargle about inclusiveness.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` hollywood got nothin' on this.
nubbins`: aha, the one guy referred to mp+-pr as "shim"
nubbins`: great
nubbins`: ;;ud shim
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shim | 2. shim. (n)-A person of anonymous or unconfirmed gender. Usually only applicable to people met online. Are you still going out with that shim? mark as favoriteย ...
thestringpuller: ;;seen jurov
gribble: jurov was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 6 hours, 18 minutes, and 57 seconds ago: <jurov> SPREADSHEET KILLS
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: shim
nubbins`: wow, guy wrote bearshare?
nubbins`: i remember that
pankkake: mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-12-2013#411741 that might be it, if you're willing to read the whole day I guess
pankkake: of emo pankkake
mircea_popescu: nah it was a coupla days before that i think
mircea_popescu: when it first dawned on you that
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
pankkake: yeah that's the one
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.25 BTC [+]
pankkake: but then you have to ask yourself why would anyone sane still use bitcoin
thestringpuller: people still use bearshare?
mircea_popescu: doesn't seem likely.
pankkake: what is it, a program for hairy gay swingers?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5131 @ 0.00090006 = 4.6182 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: what is the recipe in romania?
thestringpuller: in LA it is women weed and weather
mircea_popescu: i think it varies.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 149 @ 0.00220102 = 0.328 BTC [-] {3}
asciilifeform: and, afaik, bearshare is dead, but the (DHT-based) 'edonkey' is still up and running, and stuffed full of high-quality rarities
asciilifeform: (scanned russian maths books, etc)
pankkake: edonkey network still has some active communities and good stuff. actually it was the only one of those with actual communities
asciilifeform: if 'bittorrent' is your neighbourhood dope pusher, 'edonkey' is alex shulgin's basement lab.
pankkake: that's not really true anymore. public bittorrent yes, but private communities are thriving
pankkake: and then there's the odd soulseek, still up while having some heavy centralization
asciilifeform: pankkake: are you a member of any that have 1970s soviet trinary mainframe manuals, rather than peculiar and rare fetish porn?
asciilifeform: (nothing against the latter, but the former is more what i had in mind)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42637 @ 0.00090097 = 38.4147 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: ed is still, afaik, the only place where you will find some of the more interesting and factual (older) 'paladin press' works.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ah yea. meant the earlier link
pankkake: there was a community named "horseporn junction" that I was not part of, but it might be a hoax
mircea_popescu: would horses lie ?
pankkake: but you can find some good stuff elsewhere
mircea_popescu: "The interpretation of the results of the above assignment test make me feel angry. I am not a teacher but I am confident that I can teach (in less than 15 minutes) any person smart enough to be admitted to a computer science class how to pass the above test. The results speak volumes about the utter ignorance of educators regarding the nature of human knowledge and how to acquire it. It is a tremendous act of injustic
mircea_popescu: e to blame the students and not the teachers. Now if a student is *unwilling* to learn the material then that is another question.
mircea_popescu: But to blame the poor education methods on students willing to acquire the knowledge is just ridiculous.
mircea_popescu: check out this guy. he's a teacher who feels able to help people fake the test,
mircea_popescu: and he imagines this means the conclusions of the test only show how desperately the world needs more teachers.
mircea_popescu: i suppose this is the original font of bureaucracy.
asciilifeform: alan kay (smalltalk), the original 'i'll teach even monkeys to program' fellow, persists in this delusion.
mircea_popescu: it's not so different from the conviction one can patent medicine,
mircea_popescu: which in the end boils right back into the old trunk of crafting the perpetuum mobile.
asciilifeform: maybe these folks will relent once they understand that even literacy cannot be taught to everyone.
mircea_popescu: these folks will never relent.
mircea_popescu: inasmuch their problem is a relation to the self rather than to the world, the only way to have them relent is to change them
mircea_popescu: either back into anorganic matter, or else chinese re-education or w/e.
asciilifeform: or just let them go broke, and they can join the crackpots who spend their lives teaching dolphins sign language.
mircea_popescu: same thing.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, there is a good objection there : the example given seems very tilted toward people with experience in a C-like language.
mircea_popescu: "otherwise you need to use the 'code-cracking' part of your brain to try and infer a meaning from an unknown syntax."
mircea_popescu: as all cognitive tests, the one proposed measures more the bias of the tester than the subject.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.00090414 = 3.2549 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, do you know the story of the kid who wouldn't pass physics exam ?
asciilifeform: let somebody give the same test with (kindergarten level) electric circuits.
mircea_popescu: lemme see if i find this
asciilifeform: pankkake: 1 or 2 of these are interesting, in the sense of 'what not to do'
asciilifeform: the barometer example is just one of a poorly-specified problem
asciilifeform: that is, one ought to ask 'you are alone in the desert, even the shirt on your back has worn to tatters, you encounter the obelisk of ozymandias, quite tall, and wish to measure its height before you die of thirst, with nothing but your remaining barometer.'
mircea_popescu: you are wrong to imagine this problem can be solved by specification.
mircea_popescu: this is the exact equivalent of the "poorly specified bitbet bet" fallacy.
asciilifeform: any kid who can still wiggle out from under the conditions with finesse should be marked passing.
mircea_popescu: natural language does not allow specification, and most fields of interest for humans do not allow formal language.
mircea_popescu: so you've just moved the goalposts.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 97 @ 0.00279 = 0.2706 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: programmer's wife: 'do you want pizza or chinese for dinner?' programmer: 'yes.'
KRS|Gotyawallet: This hw offering is from China, land of the asics. It must not be a scam. I heard the chips grow in the wild there. It must be wonderful. http://www.cybtc.com/thread-3396-1-1.html
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28400 @ 0.00090414 = 25.6776 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: re: asics: anyone crazy enough to build a discrete-TTL logic miner yet?
asciilifeform: does anyone even remember how to design with ECL circuits nowadays...
mircea_popescu: possibly. many people involved in mining are from the "old world"
mircea_popescu: ie, russia, china etc.
asciilifeform: (you can buy ~50GHz+ ECL gates from mouser, or whoever)
KRS|Gotyawallet: here is the english translation of the site
KRS|Gotyawallet: dig that first comment, reserved for a certain team-
mircea_popescu: googlish is hardly english
KRS|Gotyawallet: Its cattle.
mircea_popescu: Hot Search: pumpkin baked cat butterfly KNC Bitfury Bitmine Avalon TMR
mircea_popescu: diginforce is Gridseed total online sales agents, sales are now sold out yesterday, there is no development board conference
KRS|Gotyawallet: Bigtime Protoshares/Invictus drama brewing.
pankkake: what stupid thing did they do this time?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37200 @ 0.00090414 = 33.634 BTC [+]
ozbot: The Pirate Bay changes domain to stay ahead of the law | T3
mircea_popescu: y no namecoin
Kleeck: I like PirateBay.
asciilifeform: would anyone care to explain why namecoin, when you can encode name-ipv4 pairs in the conventional blockchain trivially
pankkake: there is a thepiratebay.bitโ€ฆ but it's domain squatted
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00279 = 0.1395 BTC [+]
pankkake: anyway to access TPB: http://proxybay.info/
KRS|Gotyawallet: asciilifeform thats cool man
asciilifeform: KRS|Gotyawallet: not like it was my idea. has been obvious for ages.
asciilifeform: store a few bytes as small tx.
asciilifeform: (or gigantic tx. doesn't matter, since the coin is going in a closed loop.)
asciilifeform: that is, between your own addrs.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48050 @ 0.00090854 = 43.6553 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is the first time a dns server has to handle 10gb of cruft to resolve a query.
pankkake: namecoin features could be added to bitcoin, but the idea was that miners would be against itโ€ฆ well the result is now no one cares
pankkake: people buy namecoins but have no idea what they are for :|
mircea_popescu: well inasmuch as they don't really work for that which they are for, arguably it doesn't matter.
pankkake: it works, but the tools suck or do not exist
mircea_popescu: re-read what you just said o.o
pankkake: it works in the sense that you can register a name, update it, etc.
pankkake: http://explorer.bit/n/42707 pretty cool right? if only there was an application exploiting it!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.24525001 = 0.4905 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 7 @ 0.1 = 0.7 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: im curious what the pirate bay browser will be like.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: dns server already chugs 10+GB of turd: unix.
pankkake: ugh I guess I should give the non-.bit URL: http://explorer.dot-bit.org/n/42707
mircea_popescu: also just made them an offer to sponsor them, curious if they manage to find their way out of the paper bag.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's not 10gb tho
pankkake: I thought their browser already existed, and that it was a tor bundle fork
pankkake: projects of alternative roots never went far, too. there was .42 which gave pretty much nothing
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 92 @ 0.00229808 = 0.2114 BTC [+] {8}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.24050001 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21121 @ 0.00090414 = 19.0963 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31956 @ 0.00090444 = 28.9023 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39600 @ 0.00090174 = 35.7089 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13040 @ 0.0009044 = 11.7934 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 99 @ 0.002845 = 0.2817 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "I want to introduce myself. My name is Michael from Cloudhashing.com, and I have taken over the public relations work there after being one of their customers since August. I will be the only one writing from this account now. "
Namworld: What?
mircea_popescu: i have no idea dood, it's like complete chaos.
mircea_popescu: "hello i am your new waiter after eating here for three weeks i am now qualified to make food. the brainwashing is real good, please try it."
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 48 @ 0.05 = 2.4 BTC
pankkake: can something with "cloud" in its name not be a scam?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4942 @ 0.00090028 = 4.4492 BTC [-]
pankkake: ;;estimate
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 1099731120.92 based on data since last change | 1191737820.33 based on data for last three days
dub: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 275103 | Current Difficulty: 9.08350862437022E8 | Next Difficulty At Block: 276191 | Next Difficulty In: 1088 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 2 hours, 41 minutes, and 47 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1100272777.8 | Estimated Percent Change: 21.12861
dub: ;;nethash
gribble: 8524940.56545
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.05 = 0.15 BTC
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26700 @ 0.00089943 = 24.0148 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.00089943 = 5.3066 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1100 @ 0.00089949 = 0.9894 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13900 @ 0.00089949 = 12.5029 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 283 @ 0.0028479 = 0.806 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: ;;eauth mircea_popescu
gribble: Request successful for user mircea_popescu, hostmask mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/8A736F0E2FB7B452
mircea_popescu: ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:ab62ac49dc6fe5b52726b421d41eb2c753a4056ad1457349660e8819
gribble: You are now authenticated for user mircea_popescu with key 8A736F0E2FB7B452
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 3 @ 0.09666666 = 0.29 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 4 @ 0.09037504 = 0.3615 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 13 @ 0.05 = 0.65 BTC
mircea_popescu: ok, so, major announcement :
fiat500: o no
mircea_popescu: bitcoin-central & mpex are proud to announce X.EUR, http://mpex.co/?mpsic=X.EUR
fiat500: oh, sweet
mircea_popescu: teh physically settled monthly euro future
mircea_popescu: it will start trading tomorrow.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37550 @ 0.00089942 = 33.7732 BTC [-] {3}
jurov: w00t
pizzaman1337: wait, physically settled?
jurov: but dunno when b-c finally verifies my company acct
mircea_popescu: ie, actual future, not bucket shop bs.
pizzaman1337: MP comes with a briefcase full of cash to my door?
mircea_popescu: pizzaman1337 no, but you get euros in your bc acct.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28974 @ 0.00090032 = 26.0859 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: heh looks *I* will have to do with briefcases of cash, if someone exercises them via coinbr
jurov: this gonna get interesting
mircea_popescu: jurov you can probably just subsign.
sundun_: hey
sundun_: anyone here?
mircea_popescu: ie, ask YOUR customer to gpg sign THEIR bc acct.
mircea_popescu: and oversign that and ship it to davout
sundun_: o i guess that's a yes >_<
mircea_popescu: sup sundun_ ?
jurov: mhm, good then
sundun_: just saying hi
sundun_: had a couple of questions
sundun_: but i dunno how active this chat is
mircea_popescu: jurov i don't imagine they'd look too kindly on you fronting for ppl on your own acct anyway
mircea_popescu: sundun_ this chat is the heart and especially brains of btc finance. what do you need ?
jurov: i was going to ask anyway
sundun_: haha mircea
sundun_: soooo
pizzaman1337: you laugh...
sundun_: i'm not sure what that means XD
sundun_: anyway i was thinking of investing in neo&bee
sundun_: but not sure if i should do it via havelock
sundun_: or via the lmbholdings site
jurov: so you aren't thinking about that anymore
jurov: that's good ;)
sundun_: haha you're saying it's good that ive already decided to invest
mircea_popescu: at this point you'd have to be off your rocker to do anything involving havelock.
sundun_: why micrea?
sundun_: what's wrong with havelock
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
sundun_: what
sundun_: you want me to read that long chat?
jurov: virtex, havelocks biggest asset, went into trouble
sundun_: can i get a tldr version
fiat500: is the situation in cyprus really this dire?
sundun_: what does that mean
mircea_popescu: sundun_ it autohighlights where you need to start.
mircea_popescu: fiat500 sounds pretty bad
fiat500: interesting
jurov: sundun_: if you're srs with the inestment, prefer full infor over tldr
sundun_: bleh i dont understand
sundun_: azoo sure. they reorganised as a entity run by "no one", recently. after which they allowed their largest company (virtex) to simply walk away from the investors 12:57:29mircea_popescu:collected >4k btc this year, paid no dividends, is now gone.
sundun_: this?
sundun_: virtex is stealing money?
sundun_: crap
jurov: they frame it as "exchange for real shares registered in alberta"
Duffer1: dundun_ if you're unsure of the offering or the exchange then just hold onto your btc for dear life, do not let go
jurov: but since it's CAD-denominated, it's as good as scam
sundun_: but i want to invest in btc buesinesss
sundun_: just not sure how
sundun_: but alot of people have funds in havelock
sundun_: it's a scam for them too?
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 has a point, and so does jurov. don't rush it.
sundun_: sigh i just sent half a bitcoin to havelock
fiat500: 4:04 PM <sundun_> but i want to invest in btc buesinesss
fiat500: 4:05 PM <sundun_> just not sure how
mircea_popescu: ll be very sorry after you lose your btc, better hold on to it.
fiat500: this is not the right way to look at it
sundun_: how should i look at it
Duffer1: sec
fiat500: unless you are an amazing philanthropist :P
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
sundun_: sorry i'm super nooby i want to learn more >_<
jurov: read more then ;)
sundun_: sigh
sundun_: okay
sundun_: i'm willing
Duffer1: sundun_ i wrote this just for you https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=353439
sundun_: this chat's ai is kind of confusing
mircea_popescu: yeah, read the logs.
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. (http://dpaste.com/1506852/plain/)
sundun_: or aesthetically unappearling
mircea_popescu: bwahaha kakobrekla you hear that ? teh ai is borkt!
Duffer1: assbot has tourettes (amazing)
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
mircea_popescu: "i got no time and i gotta invest". H. Ellison's sequel.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.24077142 = 1.6854 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.2405 = 1.6835 BTC [-] {2}
sundun_: so duffer1 you invested in losing bitcoin stocks?
sundun_: and that's why you don't advise it?
Duffer1: there were several points
sundun_: and the guys that you ivnested in
sundun_: ran off with 182 BTC
sundun_: damn
Duffer1: btc is almost certainly a better investment then X
sundun_: so everyone here does not want to invest in bitcoin securities?
Duffer1: i'm not saying that
mircea_popescu: <Duffer1> btc is almost certainly a better investment then X << ESPECIALLY if you don't really read/know what X does.
Duffer1: there are always going to be projects worth supporting
sundun_: so what are you saying
pankkake: if you don't really know or understand what the thing is about, if ANYTHING is unclear, don't invest
Duffer1: yes
Duffer1: and
Duffer1: even if you do know what it's about, it's very unlikely to outperform btc itself as an investment
fiat500: dont just invest in btc "business" for the sake of doing it
sundun_: so are you guys not invested in btc securities :/
sundun_: you're saying that i shouldn't invest cuz i'm not completely knowledgable
mircea_popescu: they are, they just try to conspire to keep you away from the really good stuff see ?
fiat500: lol
twizt: lol
sundun_: :/
sundun_: i'm confused
Duffer1: he's joking man
sundun_: okay
fiat500: sundun_: why do companies list themselves on the stock market in general?
sundun_: for supporters
fiat500: lolz
twizt: no
sundun_: wat
twizt: for initial capital
sundun_: yeah
sundun_: support
sundun_: financial support that they need to run business
twizt: thats not support
pankkake: mircea_popescu: I've been accused to do that. same as mining
sundun_: how is it not support
twizt: having facebook followers is support ;)
pankkake: there's no use :(
sundun_: oh i c
sundun_: i meant in different way
sundun_: anyway
sundun_: you guys have scared me
Duffer1: pankkake there is hope still, he did find his way here
fiat500: (also lets not consider cases where they are forced to because they've reached a threshold of stakeholders)
sundun_: i didn't think it would be a big deal to invest in neo&bee
twizt: everything is a risk sundun_
sundun_: i understand its' a risk
sundun_: don't invest anything you're unable to lose
sundun_: blah blah
twizt: just gotta make sure u if you should take certain ones or not
sundun_: okay
sundun_: thanks i mean it
pankkake: the "can't afford to lose" is certainly tired, and highly incomplete. you have to judge what is the risk and the potential reward
pankkake: if you can get 10% if it works, but it has a 50% chance to work, it's way too risky
sundun_: i see
sundun_: so back to havelock
sundun_: mircea thinks havelock is a scam
sundun_: bc of all the failed securities
Duffer1: even if they aren't a scam just look at the track record of their offerings
Duffer1: they might as well be a scam
sundun_: yeah failed securities
pankkake: I believe they don't have the best interests of shareholders anymore
fiat500: mircea_popescu: curious, say btcusd is at $40k, just to pluck a number out of thin air
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00090081 = 9.3684 BTC [+]
sundun_: i see
sundun_: so even asicmining?
sundun_: i know it's been seriously failing
fiat500: do you still see mpex registration staying at 30BTC?
sundun_: lmao
mircea_popescu: fiat500 yes.
pankkake: +in mind
mircea_popescu: 30 btc will still be 0.00000003% of btc in circulation. it's not a high barrier by any means.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 115 @ 0.00289 = 0.3324 BTC [+]
pizzaman1337: I wonder if someday I'd ever consider selling my MPEX registration...
fiat500: thats a nice way to look at it
mircea_popescu: and if 40k is too high, then people should pay less per btc
fiat500: the accepted theory on deflation is it causes prices to drop, looks like you're having none of that (or dont care about USD exchange rate)
mircea_popescu: this isn't a price, it's a barrier.
mircea_popescu: you're not buying something from me, you're proving something to me.
fiat500: the 30btc is your version of accreditation then
mircea_popescu: half of it.
mircea_popescu: the financial half. you also gotta be able to talk to the exchange.
pizzaman1337: will you ever stop allowing new registrations?
mircea_popescu: altoghether ? probably not.
pankkake: I already thought registrations were discretionary
jurov: pizzaman1337: only if you can find a provable way to forget your gpg key
fiat500: has the average investor done well on mpex?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8850 @ 0.00089936 = 7.9593 BTC [-] {2}
pizzaman1337: jurov: mpex allows updating keys, right?
jurov: no it does not
jurov: last i heard
asciilifeform: wait, srsly?
pizzaman1337: even if I think my key has been compromised?
jurov: there were some amends for unlucky people who had expiration date set, but afaik not anymore
jurov: then it's 30b for new acct.
fiat500: "on average the MPEx investor buying discontinued assets exclusively made a net loss of about two percent over the course of a little more than a year and a half"
fiat500: neat
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 2000 @ 0.001 = 2 BTC
mircea_popescu: overall s.dice broke even on price and made bank on dividends, s.mpoe paid a little dividends and went up about 30x or so since listing
mircea_popescu: and the smaller things are well... small.
mircea_popescu: the options tho, people made bank there
ozbot: MPOE bonds historical data, Dec 2012 - Nov 2013 pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
pizzaman1337: I'm curious to see what/if any affect X.EUR might have on things outside mpex/b-c
pizzaman1337: looks like someone placed a buy order?
Vexual: the mention of suitcases in this channel will propagate to a web article on bitcoin>bin ladens
mircea_popescu: pizzaman1337 ya lol
mircea_popescu: meanwhile : 84 cases of the plague w/ 40% mortality in Madagascar -- it has morphed from the original bubonic plague to pneumonic plague, easily transmissable...
Vexual: i told them not to open the vial
benkay: oh joy pneumonic.
fiat500: i laughed my ass off at the thought of jurov having to shuttle briefcases of cash for coinbr uses
fiat500: *users
jurov: hell yes
kakobrekla: its not suppose to be aesthetically appearling
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22962 @ 0.00090319 = 20.739 BTC [+] {3}
jurov: pizzaman1337: if you used a cardano for mpex trade, then it would be feasible to sell the acct
mircea_popescu: now this is true. course is risky, if your key falls in the fucking pit and dies, you're sol
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, you can actually deliver an acct.
jurov: but no it would not. you could have PUSH prepared for later execution
jurov: *signed
mircea_popescu: if you know what your shit will be like atg the time of demise.
mircea_popescu: say yiou have a push for X and you meanwhile sold Y
mircea_popescu: you'd have to keep it updated.
pizzaman1337: every time you did anything
mircea_popescu: (trivial to code into your pympex or w/e you use, obviously)
pizzaman1337: but then you need to keep that safe too
jurov: i can just sign PUSH|addr|9999999 for all assets?
kakobrekla: i use punch cards.
mircea_popescu: jurov ya but it'll fail
asciilifeform: ok friendly reminder
asciilifeform: cardano key extraction is not physically impossible (that'd be a lie) - just non-trivial.
jurov: hmmmmmmm.... so a bunch of smaller then
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how'd one do it ?
asciilifeform: resistance to physical attack is not on the menu. (if you want this, encase yours in concrete.)
Vexual: epoxy
jurov: no need to extract the keys, prepared in advance PUSH will do
asciilifeform: see, there are two contradictory design objectives
asciilifeform: auditability and physical security
asciilifeform: they cannot be reconciled
asciilifeform: so the latter isn't in the mix
jurov: Vexual: asciilifeform posted a paper exactly about that yest
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so suppose i want to extract the key so i can make a mpex acct and sell it ands then later steal the guy's shit. how do i do it ?
asciilifeform: the only definite promise is that the key cannot be exfiltrated silently by the attached pc.
asciilifeform: 1) read the (to be published) design docs
asciilifeform: 2) remove appropriate chips
asciilifeform: 3) read back bits
asciilifeform: 4) process into gpg-compatible key.
Vexual: nintendo has that exopy that will cunt up a chip if you try to get it off
dub: so, we need a new wot btw
asciilifeform: Vexual: if you keep keys in SRAM it gets much easier
dub: S.WOT?
pizzaman1337: mircea_popescu: you could pre-sign push commands for 1 satoshi a few billion times (or withdraw commands, or whatever)
mircea_popescu: dub why ?!
benkay: why new wot?
dub: current is broken
mircea_popescu: pizzaman1337 you could, but think of the effort.
asciilifeform: but then you risk loss on dead battery, airport xray, etc.
benkay: dub: broken hao?
ozbot: Rating Details for User 'stamit'
mircea_popescu: dub can you be like explicit and everything ?
dub: story is this guy has some kind of personality issue where he can
mircea_popescu: i seem to recall stamit being sanwe.
dub: 't get over one person (gmaxwell) being a fuckwit
dub: so he rants a little bit, makes a nuisance of himself in a couple of channels
dub: gmax and shilltown negrate him
mircea_popescu: who the fuck is "thelordoftime"
dub: rules say if your trust web with nanotube is <0 you can't use the system
truffles: gmaxwell that douche
asciilifeform: since this is important, i'll repeat it: you can have a cryptowidget that nukes itself when disassembled, circuits potted in unobtainium, etc. or you can have one whose function you can personally verify. can't have both. 'fried ice.'
dub: mircea_popescu: gmax shil, 12 year old operator in 0otc
dub: -otc*
mircea_popescu: dub is this -otc drama ?
dub: its spilled out of -otc but basically
mircea_popescu: so the argument that wot is broken says that you can't rate unless you're above 0 and idiots can get you below 0 ?
dub: correct
dub: key is that nanotube has a Trust Cabal effect
asciilifeform: wait, everyone's rating counts towards this purpose equally?
asciilifeform: that's bizarre
mircea_popescu: the counter to this is that if you don't do this, anyone can end up -infinity by the effect of endless socks
Vexual: needs proof of stake
mircea_popescu: "I haven't traded with this guy, but I've heard from people I trust that he has used legal intimidation to force censorship of people's ratings of him. "
dub: exactly
mircea_popescu: since when is retardtown preoccupied with censorship lol
dub: 'derp derp derp doing this will make gmaxwell like me'
mircea_popescu: or is it one of those, "we can't stand censorship that's not directed at the enemy"
asciilifeform: proof of stake? then who'd need wot. just have people sign 'i like mr. xyz' with an addr. key
asciilifeform: the other way to avoid 'imperium in imperio' in a wot is: a tyrant.
Vexual: 50000bc hates you
dub: stamit is weird and has entitlement issues in that he thinks being a bag of air breathing meat entitles him to some basic rights
mircea_popescu: dub the funny thing is, gmaxwell himself is like 3 angry people away from oblivion
nubbins`: thing about the wot is that most of the ratings are less than useless
dub: but hes no scammer
nubbins`: seriously
nubbins`: "his ppusd for my btc"
nubbins`: who gives a fuck
mircea_popescu: nubbins` thing about this world is that most of everything in it is less than useless.
nubbins`: Web of Children
asciilifeform: easy fix for wot (was gonna write this myself before i ever heard of btc) is: no global totals.
mircea_popescu: same is true of houses, women, puppies, clouds, wjhat have you
asciilifeform: any user must be viewed through the lens of a selected other.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nobody reallty uses the global totals that's sane
benkay: ^^
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: even the puppies? D;
mircea_popescu: this is like, mpoe-pr 2012 bitcoin 101
asciilifeform: except, if we are told correctly, for the 0-cutoff
mircea_popescu: well it used to be a 0 total, apparently nanotube improved it so it's 0 to him
mircea_popescu: since he runs gribble there's some sense to this (as grible could reasonably use his rating to see the world)
asciilifeform: fixed then. got our tyrant plugged in.
mircea_popescu: i suppose a decent solution for this is for an interested 3rd party to make dubble, which looks from dub's perspective
mircea_popescu: i think nano'd be amenable to the arrangement.
nanotube: all the code is foss. wanna spin up your own bot, nobody's stopping you.
nanotube: it was just an expedient method to stop rating spam/shilling in its tracks.
nubbins`: nubble
mircea_popescu: i don't really see a better way tbh.
mircea_popescu: no matter what you do you'll end up with this tradeoff.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00090275 = 1.1736 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: you know exopy is much cuter than epoxy. i wonder why they didn't call it exopy.
Vexual: stupid chemists
nubbins`: !ticker m s.mg
assbot: [MPEX:S.MG] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.000115 / 0.00011508 / 0.000155 (3000 shares, 0.35 BTC), 30D: 0.0001 / 0.00014023 / 0.00016 (98322 shares, 13.79 BTC)
nubbins`: !ticker h smg
assbot: [HAVELOCK:SMG] 1D: / 0 / (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.00010025 / 0.00013905 / 0.00020000 (19055 shares, 2.64967247 BTC), 30D: 0.00005778 / 0.00011754 / 0.00020000 (74621 shares, 8.77068209 BTC)
nubbins`: exopy describes how complicated it is to find the exits
nubbins`: fire marshals use it when inspecting buildings
mircea_popescu: that kid's now fucked for instance.
nubbins`: "i'm rating this guy -10 because he scammed wrinklemonster"
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: speaking of ratings, how about giving me some love one of these days?
mircea_popescu: ;;rated nubbins`
gribble: You have not yet rated user nubbins`
dub: lel
ozbot: Rating Details for User 'tim-tams'
pankkake: blame the `
dub: not sure if sockies
mircea_popescu: ;;rate nubbins` 2 One of the first Stock Warrant holders.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user nubbins` has been recorded.
nubbins`: hey! thanks
nubbins`: pankkake: everyone does ;)
truffles: look at mp spaming ratings
truffles: inside job
nubbins`: "ident with gribble or you're getting banned in 60 seconds"
mircea_popescu: fucking historical too, like some guy goiing "o yeah, and then i bought the 3rd share printed in the us"
nubbins`: you have any idea how fucking hard it is to auth in 60 seconds? D;
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: i still have plans to make a nice print of it some day
nubbins`: cutting my teeth on a related project right now
mircea_popescu: depending how your offline stuff is set up you might not even be able to log in 60 seconds.
mircea_popescu: dub definitely sockies, 2 days after he negged a scammer.
nubbins`: tim-tams sells xau
mircea_popescu: like a lot ?
nubbins`: sorry, ah!
nubbins`: not a ton
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 701 @ 0.00049999 = 0.3505 BTC [+]
nubbins`: just kind of odd to see people selling metals for btc these days
benkay: almost as odd as physical bitcoins, eh?
mircea_popescu: what;s so odd about it ?
nubbins`: ah, i guess i'm just making the assumption that he initially bought these metals with btc
nubbins`: that may not be the case
mircea_popescu: seems improbable.
nubbins`: well, the alternative (that he's buying btc with fiat via PMs) makes a lot more sense
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 9 @ 0.02316222 = 0.2085 BTC [+] {4}
nubbins`: i guess never really occurred to me, as i've only done the opposite
mircea_popescu: the uppitty tortilla character supposedly got into btc by trading his silver stash
kakobrekla: better tortilla than usagi
kakobrekla: both sound like dishes
mircea_popescu: i thought usagi sold his guitar.
nubbins`: heh!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.00090275 = 5.3262 BTC [-]
nubbins`: i had bought about $2000 worth of btc before i realized that it made far more sense to sell goods and services for btc
nubbins`: i think the first thing i sold was a btc logo t-shirt
kakobrekla: "get me some sushi and some raw usagi! And bring a spoon, cant put my eyes out with these sticks even if i wanted"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1615 @ 0.00090364 = 1.4594 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: diametric ello.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12100 @ 0.00090366 = 10.9343 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: apparently google imaging "site:trilema.com tits" and other dirty words yields a bevy of cool stuff.
mircea_popescu: i guess now i know what i'll be doing when i'll be a dried up geezer.
diametric: mircea_popescu: yeah i don't know if you realized, but you left directory indexes on
mircea_popescu: tis deliberate
BingoBoingo: Since I seem to get most of my traffic from addressing n00b traps http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2013/12/15/dogecoin-the-impeding-danger-of-old-meme/ So Doge
diametric: mircea_popescu: so i take it you've been informed of my digital fabrication abilities?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "Well this is somewhat embarrassing, isnย’t it?"
pankkake: I wget -r trilema but besides a few old blog headers nothing much interesting
asciilifeform: diametric makes very nifty flying machines. and scanned head busts. and other goodies.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: No doubt, but embarassement is a force of education
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo turns out i had copied ther whole line
mircea_popescu: anyway, you might wish to do your htaccess tolerantly, so http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2013/12/15/dogecoin-the-impeding-danger-of-old-meme/%20So%20Doge still resolves
BingoBoingo: Really?
BingoBoingo: I usually just left click links. I forget that there's 800 different ways to move them from the IRC client to the browser.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00090444 = 3.1655 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: i don't trust auto-anything.
mircea_popescu: holy shit, dogecoin is an actual thing ?
mircea_popescu: i thought we were kidding around
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: No, It's a scrypt altcoin, roughly 100 billion coins if I counted the zeros right glancing at it.
nubbins`: such faucet, for real
benkay: it gets better
benkay: random block rewards
diametric: its a hilarious satirical coin
jurov: and someone is actually pumping it
benkay: to the doge
jurov: wow
benkay: so pump
nubbins`: "what is with the digger built into the QT. I never got it running, always said no dig such fail."
nubbins`: heheh
mircea_popescu: actually block rewards equal to say the 5th digit of the nonce are an interesting idea
pankkake: stupider coins have been created
pankkake: coins made to be bad got traded
mircea_popescu: basically, the longer a block interval, the lower the reward
mircea_popescu: gives the coin an incentive to spontaneously die
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11350 @ 0.00090444 = 10.2654 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 500 @ 0.00295017 = 1.4751 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9847 @ 0.00090366 = 8.8983 BTC [-]
fiat500: l.o.l
pankkake: haha nice. even the username is funny
diametric: they changed all the buttons too
benkay: doge forever
ozbot: Coined Up - The FREE Crypto-Only Currency Exchange
benkay: 2 satoshi spread
frb: a coin whose only redeeming feature is that it is named after an internet meme
frb: what could go wrong?
benkay: many noob
ozbot: Dogecoin
fiat500: they went all out
benkay: i think it's a stunt to drive business for http://www.designinghypermediaapis.com/ butttttt i may be wrong
the20year1: Is it possible to tie a new altcoin to btc addresses?
the20year1: It'd be pretty cool to spawn off an altcoin backed by real estate through our bitcoin realestate business, but i don't know of any viable way to do it
BingoBoingo: benkay: That has to be the saddest site on the internet
benkay: not as bad as ur moms
benkay: or mpex
fiat500: im digging for doge now
BingoBoingo: benkay: There is a distinct difference between badness and sadness as a question of being different kinds of properties.
fiat500: very moon
benkay: BingoBoingo: i don't know that i buy asciilifeform's ball-o-mud argument on urbit yet. given enough traction wouldn't it make sense to rewrite the important bits for fpgas or what have we?
benkay: granted i don't know anything about anything, and there's the whole keyboard and display thing to deal with
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3050 @ 0.00090366 = 2.7562 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: benkay: Well You can spec a Turing complete language on a napkin in the bar. What takes time is building an implementation that runs on something. For most applications now, the various *nix's are going to be the best things available. If you want to write a new future of computing though instead of inventing Urbit someone could have just as well made a *nix that only offered as a Userland GNU Guile. It seems to me the Closest thi
BingoBoingo: ng to Urbit and the thing that highlights its futility is Clojure.
the20year1: Anyone have an answer to my question?
benkay: the20year1: what on earth do you mean by 'tie a new altcoin to btc addresses'?
mircea_popescu: this is a sadder site
mircea_popescu: than anything
nubbins`: BingoBoingo: game?
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Why not, give me some time to set up the board
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Bootstrap could make it sadder.
nubbins`: great, we'll get gribble to flip
BingoBoingo: I'll take tails since you know the flippage
nubbins`: ;;flip
gribble: Error: "flip" is not a valid command.
nubbins`: i mean, uh!
nubbins`: ;;coin
gribble: tails
gribble: heads
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9100 @ 0.00090444 = 8.2304 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: gribs gives me such heads.
nubbins`: many flip, so dispute resolution
benkay: BingoBoingo: babes have arrived, i'll grill ya later
pankkake: what year was the worst thing that happened to the U.S. dollar?
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Which flip are we using?
BingoBoingo: pankkake: 1934
nubbins`: BingoBoingo: you can go ahead
pankkake: thanks
mircea_popescu: nah, the war.
nubbins`: we'll use mine
mircea_popescu: dollar split, the north was like, 1:2
mircea_popescu: the south like 1:5
nubbins`: i can recall trading cad:usd at like 1.4:1 before going on vacation as a kid
asciilifeform: benkay: happy to answe that one.
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: I'll start with 1. d4 then
asciilifeform: urbit (or any other graph-reduction machine with 'immutable data') is exquisitely unsuited to hardware. at least in this universe.
benkay: asciilifeform: why is that? do forgive my complete ignorance of the domain...
asciilifeform: the whole 'immutability' thing is an outcome of a decades-long acid trip by 'mathematical cs' wankers
asciilifeform: they have this notion that if you constrain the system in various odd and quite unpleasant ways, you will then be able to mathematically prove useful facts about it.
asciilifeform: but 'you can't transition from the informal to the formal by formal means'
asciilifeform: the proof doesn't tell you anything about your priors being valid
asciilifeform: and reality has a nasty habit of violating your priors. because a physical machine is not a mathematical object.
asciilifeform: 'spherical horse.'
randomcloud: Something-something you can play chess here?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20850 @ 0.0009032 = 18.8317 BTC [-] {4}
nubbins`: randomcloud: after a fashion
nubbins`: Bf4+
nubbins`: sorry
nubbins`: Bb4+
asciilifeform: author of urbit wrote some pretty good screeds on why he quit academic cs: (http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/07/my-navrozov-moments.html and http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/08/whats-wrong-with-cs-research.html) and then proceeded to... well, do what he did.
nubbins`: Nxb4
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: You have a Knight facing b4?
nubbins`: should be one on c6
nubbins`: just after "Spherical horse"
nubbins`: we can rewind if you like
benkay: asciilifeform: doesn't immutability also help averagely-talented software teams operate in highly threaded environments?
nubbins`: asciilifeform: quitting something and giving it up are two different things, i guess ;D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2800 @ 0.00090275 = 2.5277 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: not only that, but it helps to feed memory and disk manufacturers' children!
asciilifeform: job creation!
asciilifeform: and so on.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.00090196 = 6.2235 BTC [-]
benkay: asciilifeform: doesn't shitty code that gets hardware deployed against its performance problems carry more responsibility for that?
nubbins`: Nxg4
asciilifeform: benkay: if 'nothing ever actually gets deleted' isn't shitty, i don't know what it.
asciilifeform: decreeing that buildings shall have water pipes but no drains would make the lives of construction crews easier, but for some odd reason isn't a popular idea.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7250 @ 0.00090444 = 6.5572 BTC [+]
benkay: ah so you object to urbit's low-level immutability
asciilifeform: that was simply an answer to the question 'if it catches on, won't someone slip appropriate silicon under it.'
BingoBoingo: Qxg7++
nubbins`: ah hahaha. gg.
BingoBoingo: I have to say e5 was ballsy
nubbins`: thought i'd try stirring up the pot early
nubbins`: really it was that whole bishop/knight/queen trade that did me in, i think
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6900 @ 0.00090444 = 6.2406 BTC [+]
nubbins`: i'd play again if you're up for it
BingoBoingo: Sure Do you want me to flip this time?
nubbins`: yeah, go ahead. i'll call heads
BingoBoingo: ;;coin
gribble: heads
nubbins`: 1. e4
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 120 @ 0.001 = 0.12 BTC
ozbot: JPMorgan's "Bitcoin-Alternative" Patent Rejected (175 Times) | Zero Hedge
benkay: is this the layer on top of the credit card processing system thing?
nubbins`: sorry, d4
nubbins`: Nxd4
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00090196 = 4.2392 BTC [-]
nubbins`: i think you already have N on f6
nubbins`: yeah, just after 2nd last assbot
BingoBoingo: AH, Nc6
BingoBoingo: Sorry, I'm running low on VOdka
truffles: chatroom chess?
nubbins`: they have this vodka that comes in a glass skull here
nubbins`: truffles: bingo is 1-0
nubbins`: well i guess 3-0 all total at this point
truffles: so ure not so good
nubbins`: maybe more
BingoBoingo: For the night. Career I believe it is 4-0, someone else played a game at a point
truffles: no Qf7 ?
BingoBoingo: I lose a bunch IRL though. And back when CoinChat was a thing I lost quite a few games there
nubbins`: Qxd4
BingoBoingo: Nc6xd4
nubbins`: Bxd4
nubbins`: 0-0-0
BingoBoingo: I don't know that Castling through check is legal...
nubbins`: hm, that's a good point
asciilifeform: afaik nope.
Apocalyptic: it's indeed not
nubbins`: aha, you're right
mircea_popescu: scam castle!
BingoBoingo: I believe that would be actively castling into check...
nubbins`: HAHA. thinking > drinking
nubbins`: third time's a charm?
BingoBoingo: About to pour another one soon.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00090196 = 4.5098 BTC [-]
nubbins`: Kxd1
nubbins`: Nh6+
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00090444 = 4.7031 BTC [+]
nubbins`: sorry
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.00090469 = 18.4104 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: wait, no
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Pretty sure moving that Bishop opens you to check...
asciilifeform: re: urbit: anyone curious about my answer to the quandary 'so, how the hell /should/ we build a computer' is invited to read:
ozbot: Loper OS ยป The Alert Reader.
nubbins`: Rh2.
nubbins`: Rxe2
nubbins`: Kxe2
nubbins`: ha ha, now it's a game
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16250 @ 0.00090551 = 14.7145 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: Bishop...
nubbins`: sloppy
BingoBoingo: It happens
nubbins`: nope
nubbins`: Kxb2
kakobrekla: nubbins` sank my boat :(
nubbins`: beep bloop!
nubbins`: you got me, gg
BingoBoingo: I completely forgot the King could take pieces when I went Qd1
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41900 @ 0.00090113 = 37.7573 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 16 @ 0.24075319 = 3.8521 BTC [+] {5}
nubbins`: yeah, i'm officially done with chess for the night
nubbins`: can't even keep it straight
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.05 = 1 BTC
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