#trilema | 2013-10-14

← 2013-10-13 | 2013-10-15 → ↓

nubbins`: lel, "We're goin up! Is this due to the increase in volume in China? Natural steady growth?"

nubbins`: yep, natural steady growth

nubbins`: you got it

pankkake: so, anyone tried Kraken?

dub: yea, dude ran with my money

dub: or do you mean kraken 2.0

pankkake: kraken the exchange

pankkake: one of the few options to trade EUR

dub: yeah the one they named after the old scam one so they could ditch and blame it on harnett

dub: let me in on dat

pankkake: are they related in any way?

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 2674 @ 0.00116118 = 3.105 BTC [-] {4}

dub: presumably in the way that the new one is also a scam

pankkake: why?

nubbins`: because everything is a scam

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.7300022 = 1.46 BTC [-]

dub: otherwise you'd have expected them to change the name to one not already used by a scammer

nubbins`: i'm going to open an exchange called matthew n. wright

pankkake: meh

dub: my up coming exchange is called bitcoin savings and trust, catchy rite?

kakobrekla: im opening a buccaneer fund

nubbins`: is there any way i can buy shares in this exchange right now?

pankkake: anyway, I like their advanced market orders, I haven't seen that elsewhere

dub: theres two possibilities, they are so incredibly stupid that they dont recognize the brand damage or the ambiguity is intentional

kakobrekla: any normal trading platform has those pankkake

dub: either way, take my money

kakobrekla: dub i think you underestimate the forgetfulness of bitcointards

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 167 @ 0.0012 = 0.2004 BTC [+]

pankkake: I'm sure most people never heard of the first kraken

kakobrekla: the name always kraks me up

pankkake: ;)

dub: third option is they are on krak

nubbins`: i'm always tempted to buy gold with btc when the price jumps up like this

kakobrekla: if you got enough btc you can go long on gold with teh btc

pankkake: that's my plan, buy btc, then buy gold along the way

pankkake: And I certainly don't want gold buys to show on my bank records anyway

kakobrekla: what i mean is go long with btc on fx

nubbins`: pankkake: collectible coins, sure

kakobrekla: but you need to have a bank for that

nubbins`: bullion, no

pankkake: nubbins`: could you elaborate?

nubbins`: well, maybe i should back up a step

nubbins`: why don't you want gold buys to show up on your bank records?

pankkake: don't want the tax man to show up at my house one day to ""buy"" them

nubbins`: i'm not sure i follow

nubbins`: you're saying you don't want your possession of gold to be known to the govt in case they demand that you surrender it to them?

pankkake: yes

dub: just refuse

dub: worst case is 3 meals and a rape chaser

pankkake: in my country it's already impossible to buy anonymously from legit stores

nubbins`: what country

pankkake: France

nubbins`: ah

nubbins`: lovely, there's a small french colony near here

nubbins`: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Pierre_and_Miquelon

pankkake: ooh, yes

Namworld: How is it impossible to buy anonymously?

pankkake: anyway, there are signs everywhere in the world of governments tracking gold purchases. I think some US states require identity proofs now

pankkake: Namworld: can't pay cash, have to provide ID card

Namworld: What the fuck...

nubbins`: but i mean

nubbins`: all that gold you bought, you sold again for cash

nubbins`: right?

pankkake: no, I'm keeping it for now

nubbins`: no, i'm the government

nubbins`: and now i have your gold

pankkake: oh, or I lost it in a boat accident? ;)

nubbins`: fell in a blender! who knows!

pankkake: sure. but if I can avoid them looking into me, all the better

nubbins`: well, i suppose so

Namworld: Oh, my gold? It was all eaten. I grind gold flakes out of my gold to decorate fancy meals for my guests.

pankkake: as we say, « vivons cachés, vivons heureux » (live hidden, live happy)

nubbins`: i wonder does that sort of thing happen often? i'm only aware of when the usa did it back in the 30s or whenever

dub: I like my shit to sparkle

pankkake: I think it was illegal to own gold at some times during WW2 in europe

Namworld: I require some unobtainium and an antigravity device for some project. Anyone may procure those?

dub: im still confused why it would matter if the govt took your gold

dub: at that point its not worth anything anyway

nubbins`: because then they'd have your gold!

pankkake: long term storage of value

pankkake: as in, 10-20+ years

dub: if its not legal to own it has no value

nubbins`: tell that to the pill dealers across the street

dub: beyond trading for ammo and wild turkey with other inbreeds notwithstanding

Namworld: You'd be surprised how little people care

pankkake: but it might be legal again

pankkake: or legal elsewhere

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1000 @ 0.00201103 = 2.011 BTC [-] {5}

nubbins`: everyone still alive who gave the USG all their gold back in the 30s is probably pretty pissed off right now

dub: nubbins`: presumably pills are not a long term value store

nubbins`: dub: that was more in response to your not legal/no value assertion

nubbins`: illegality often drives up the value of items

dub: for a limited class of items

pankkake: indeed. when gold is made illegal, I'm sure people would have other concerns, like food

nubbins`: well, "illegal items that people desire" is itself a limited class

pankkake: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49417.msg3333618#msg3333618 more KnC fail!

ozbot: [540 TH] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees, Stratum, MergedMining, Private Servers

nubbins`: but i hear what you're saying

dub: drugs would probably hold quite well actually

dub: I'd rather starve to death high

nubbins`: if the grocery store isn't going to take your gold for payment, you can have as much of it as you want

pankkake: for how much time can you store cigarettes (or other drugs)?

nubbins`: cigarettes go stale

nubbins`: but that doesn't really matter, depending on how badly you want one

pankkake: "Depending on the weather condition, cigarettes can go stale within 2 or 3 weeks after opening. If unopened, they can take more than one year and still be used without any harm."

nubbins`: most common drugs could be stored for a year or two, if done so correctly

pankkake: however my place can be quite humid

nubbins`: yeah, that's not great

pankkake: so far, I'm mostly storing food

nubbins`: storing food is common sense, it's amazing how few people do it

assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!

dub: I've got a weeks worth, plenty to get to my DR sites

pankkake: yes, especially people of my generation it seems (<30yo)

nubbins`: well, y'know. soft lives

pankkake: it already helped me a few times, like less revenue for a while

nubbins`: yep, agreed

dub: knowing how to hunt and grow shit is useful

nubbins`: i started learning to grow food this year

nubbins`: potatoes, peas, tomatoes, spinach, broccoli, onion

pankkake: my mother does… and the stuff is delicious

kakobrekla: dub is saying hunt bitchez and grow ganja

nubbins`: also useful skills

dub: I have a vege garden and a bunch of seeds

dub: also land a few days walk away wit more extensive gardens

kakobrekla: no sensimilla?

dub: pigs, chickens, cows

pankkake: nice

pankkake: I live in a city, so not for me :/

nubbins`: i have a neighbour who had chickens, the city made him stop

pankkake: though we have a small garden… it doesn't get much light so not sure it would work

dub: being on an island helps, I could feed hundreds with a few hours on the sea every day

kakobrekla: i live in a country with most tractors per capita, i cant get away from farms basically

nubbins`: pros and cons to being on an island

nubbins`: supply chain is very vulnerable

dub: what do I need that I cant kill or grow?

pankkake: medicine

kakobrekla: internets

nubbins`: pizza rolls

dub: I can swap food for pr0n, no need for internets

nubbins`: well, a life that only includes needs is pretty grim

nubbins`: you're gonna want some wants

pankkake: I have a few TBs of porn, I can live without

dub: got somegood books on medicinal plants and shit

nubbins`: protip: marijuana cures cancer

dub: I'm very well qualified to grow weed

nubbins`: i suspect a LOT of people into btc are preppers

dub: not me

kakobrekla: yeah a lot of nuts.

pankkake: indeed

nubbins`: kinda like gold/silver stackers

pankkake: nuts are delicious

nubbins`: lotta nuts

kakobrekla: and they last long in a prepper scenario

nubbins`: cashews are best

nubbins`: very delicious

nubbins`: and only nuts in the culinary sense, so nobody's allergic

dub: I basically in a volcano on active seismic fields

dub: live in*

dub: a lot of people here have emergency supplies

kakobrekla: yeha keep your enemies close

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 500 @ 0.0012 = 0.6 BTC [+]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.79999997 = 4.8 BTC [+] {2}

nubbins`: bed time

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 16 @ 0.00736937 = 0.1179 BTC [+] {2}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 32 @ 0.0075753 = 0.2424 BTC [+] {2}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 30 @ 0.00768316 = 0.2305 BTC [+] {2}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.42011099 BTC [-]

Vexual: how do gents

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 35 @ 0.70368581 = 24.629 BTC [-] {9}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 25 @ 0.0069 = 0.1725 BTC [-]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 126 @ 0.00670638 = 0.845 BTC [-] {6}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 30 @ 0.05166666 = 1.55 BTC [+] {3}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 66 @ 0.05001515 = 3.301 BTC [-] {3}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 250 @ 0.0011516 = 0.2879 BTC [-] {2}

assbot: [MPEX] [O] [O.USD.C125T] 1 @ 0.3 BTC [+]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 100 @ 0.0011511 = 0.1151 BTC [-]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.42011099 BTC [-]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 2 @ 0.07299989 = 0.146 BTC [+]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [LABCO] 510 @ 0.00073998 = 0.3774 BTC [-] {3}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [LABCO] 2850 @ 0.0004 = 1.14 BTC [-]

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00084967 = 3.9934 BTC [+] {2}

dub: ;;nethash

gribble: 2172186.21189

dub: ;;estimate

gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 250661165.864 based on data since last change | 303446278.016 based on data for last three days

dub: ;;bc,stats

jurov: ;;bc,stats

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.7 = 2.1 BTC [-]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.7 BTC [-]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.69000001 BTC [-]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.69000001 = 1.38 BTC [-]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.69000001 BTC [-]

bitesak: ;;avg price

gribble: Error: "avg" is not a valid command.

bitesak: ;;ticker

gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 152.00576, Best ask: 152.49995, Bid-ask spread: 0.49419, Last trade: 152.00000, 24 hour volume: 31063.95478779, 24 hour low: 143.10000, 24 hour high: 153.69902, 24 hour vwap: 148.48608

bitesak: ;;next

gribble: See latest update from Onefixt here: https://twitter.com/BitcoinOracle/

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.69 = 1.38 BTC [-]

bitesak: based on current bids for s.Nsa, based on the 1% minimum, it's a go !

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.6825 = 2.73 BTC [-] {2}

dexX7: ;;seen ThickAsThieves

gribble: ThickAsThieves was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 day, 18 hours, 53 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <ThickAsThieves> dat PMB

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.670001 = 1.34 BTC [-]

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 945 @ 0.00084948 = 0.8028 BTC [-]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.66202 = 1.9861 BTC [-]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.662 BTC [-]

mircea_popescu: bitesak yeah

dexX7: what is s.nsa anyway? i have a vague impression, but that's solely based on the description of that gpg-token

bitesak: http://trilema.com/snsa-first-product-the-cardano did you read that already?

ozbot: S.NSA first product - The Cardano pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.

dexX7: > based on the description of that gpg-token

dexX7: yup, i did

dexX7: and i saw the contract on mpex

dexX7: i was just wondering, if there is a document somewhere with more details :)

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [XBOND] [PAID] 0.69348300 BTC to 1`386`966 shares, 50 satoshi per share

bitesak: I am all for more understanding, I guess you can list your questions if any?

dexX7: i have no specific question at the moment

bitesak: i see it as the first physical product made through and thanks to bitcoin, other than Bitcoin coins and Tshirt branded stuff I guess.

dexX7: are you an investor or "involved"?

bitesak: nope, I am considering it though and interested in purchasing a few for christmas :)

dexX7: ah i see.. yes, the gpg-token sounds like a really neat object

gecko_x2: this is interesting

gecko_x2: is it MP's own design?

bitesak: I'll probably start with one, test it and do my best to understand it and use it as a means to promote use of GPG among friends and girlfriends

mircea_popescu: bitesak well, miners are more ocmplex products

mircea_popescu: gecko_x2 not in any significant degree. asciilifeform is the tech there.

bitesak: mircea_popescu, I wanted to refer to Casascius Bitcoins for the coins

mircea_popescu: a

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.66200001 = 1.324 BTC [+]

gecko_x2: mp, ok thx

gecko_x2: yea GPG key management was always the issue

gecko_x2: i remember playing with centralized key servers back in the days

gecko_x2: there's just no way a normal joe sixpack can do that

gecko_x2: irl

gecko_x2: anyways

gecko_x2: i don't even think gpg keys are the future

gecko_x2: there is one thing that hasn't been mentioned at all after the snowden case

gecko_x2: one thing that the NSA is totally defenceless against

gecko_x2: currently only used in online banking

gecko_x2: and that's OTP

gecko_x2: that's the way messages was delivered during WW2

gecko_x2: and it fucking works

gecko_x2: i think that a single static key as a concept is pretty much dead

gecko_x2: except maybe for initially sharing the actual OTP

mircea_popescu: believe me, it's been mentioned.

gecko_x2: not enough

mircea_popescu: asymmetric keys are a much better solution for poor people, however

mircea_popescu: because poor people can not afford to move otp keys around safely.

gecko_x2: hmm

mircea_popescu: meanwhile, properly implemented pgp is still uncrackable.

gecko_x2: yes

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.663 = 1.989 BTC [+]

gecko_x2: there is one new concept that the blockchain would make theoretically possible too

gecko_x2: time-release encryption

mircea_popescu: there was a start-up last year to do this

mircea_popescu: nothing came of it.

gecko_x2: the blockchain could be used so that a key to a piece of data would be split into say 100000 pieces

gecko_x2: 51% of those pieces would be needed to decrypt

gecko_x2: anyways

gecko_x2: it's a very interesting concept, if you think about encrypting contracts, testimonies, wills etc

dexX7: hmm.. but isn't the collection of pointers to the parts more or less similar to passwords or a key?

gecko_x2: the incentive not to release the key early would be monetary

gecko_x2: let's say you encrypt 'hello world', for 1 month

gecko_x2: you have an altcur, called 'timecoin'

dexX7: okay

gecko_x2: you have say 1 second coins, 1 minute coins and 1 hour coins

gecko_x2: you combine them to make up a month

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.663 BTC [+]

gecko_x2: ppl have clients where they can trade all these coins

dexX7: yup

gecko_x2: say there is the amount of one second coins to make up 100 years

gecko_x2: same with minutes

gecko_x2: same with hours

gecko_x2: you encrypt the message, and the keys are freely traded globally

gecko_x2: ppl have clients which holds fractional pieces of all time encrypted data

gecko_x2: just fractions

gecko_x2: the value of the coins can only be released after a message is decrypted at the expected time, no sooner

gecko_x2: should 51% of the holders of these anonymous timecoins decide to all release them ahead of time, they would become worthless

gecko_x2: something like that

gecko_x2: i'm not smart enough to fully figure it out

gecko_x2: so you would have on your pc a client software

gecko_x2: with a portfolio of time encrypted data

gecko_x2: and as the 1 month encrypted data, when it's time to decrypt

gecko_x2: the client would automatically do it for you

gecko_x2: so you could trade unknown future secrets

gecko_x2: the speculation would be rampant

dexX7: lol

dexX7: i don't think i fully get it

gecko_x2: well

gecko_x2: it's hard to explain

gecko_x2: there is an old post about the concept

gecko_x2: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=248466.0

ozbot: Time-release encryption using Bitcoin?

gecko_x2: yeah

gecko_x2: er

dexX7: ah ty

gecko_x2: but this post doesn't mention coins as i'm thinking

gecko_x2: i'm thinking you make 3 altcoins

gecko_x2: seconds, minutes, hours

gecko_x2: to make up for let's say 500 years

gecko_x2: i dunno should there be 500 years combined, or 500 years of each

gecko_x2: i'm not smart enough :p

gecko_x2: but each holder would only have a fraction of the future secret

gecko_x2: say george soros want to encrypt something to be released 50 years after his death

dexX7: is it like.. "when 2030030 second coins are mined, it's xxx date, time"?

gecko_x2: fractions of keys to that data would be traded just like altcur's currently

gecko_x2: yeah

gecko_x2: combined with the fact that there is no incentive for all the hundreds of thousands of holders of the fractional keys to release them all ahead of time

gecko_x2: they might not even know what this or that fractional key is really hiding

gecko_x2: until the due date

gecko_x2: man the speculation would be awesome

gecko_x2: like 'i have 350 1 second keys holding soros's secret'

gecko_x2: and they are trading 2500% above initial value :p

dexX7: xD

gecko_x2: because ppl think the secret is gonna be worth millions

gecko_x2: and ofcourse, once the secret is released, the holders of the keys get to see it first

gecko_x2: before the global press etc

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 13 @ 0.66223078 = 8.609 BTC [-] {3}

bitesak: ;;ticker

gribble: MtGox BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 151.00000, Best ask: 151.41001, Bid-ask spread: 0.41001, Last trade: 151.00000, 24 hour volume: 33087.00526892, 24 hour low: 143.10000, 24 hour high: 153.69902, 24 hour vwap: 148.83173

bitesak: !ticker s.mpoe

assbot: How can I be of assistance, my poor man?

bitesak: ;;ticker s.mpoe

gribble: (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX] [--market <market>|all]) -- Return pretty-printed ticker. Default market is Mtgox. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure the code (1 more message)

mircea_popescu: $vwap s.mpoe

mpexbot: mircea_popescu: S.MPOE 1 day: average: 0.00085005 high: 0.0008576 low: 0.00084444 volume: 42500 btc: 36.12705707 7 day: average: 0.00084643 high: 0.00085779 low: 0.00083547 volume: 912159 btc: 772.07450746 30 day: average: 0.00089086 high: 0.00094307 low: 0.0007725 volume: 4521469 btc: 4027.99396016

bitesak: thanks mp, was reading on of your articles on MPOE evaluation and tried the !ticker command

bitesak: just discovered the The list of discontinued assets on MPEx page !

mircea_popescu: :p

mircea_popescu: !ticker m s.bbet

assbot: [MPEX:S.BBET] 1D: 0 / 0 / 0 (0 shares, 0 BTC), 7D: 0.00050025 / 0.0005293 / 0.00059999 (7055 shares, 3.73 BTC), 30D: 0.0005 / 0.00054634 / 0.00059999 (43300 shares, 23.66 BTC)

dexX7: ;;nethash

gribble: 2217153.74554

dexX7: ;;diffchange

gribble: Estimated percent change in difficulty this period | 33.36436 % based on data since last change | 63.63379 % based on data for last three days

arij_: that diff

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3888 @ 0.0002479 = 0.9638 BTC [-]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 30 @ 0.65974999 = 19.7925 BTC [-] {7}

ThickAsThieves: ;;bcstats

dexX7: hey tat, assuming havelock closes it's door to us issuers, too. what would you do then?

ThickAsThieves: we have contigency plans in place

ThickAsThieves: contingency*

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 39 @ 0.006287 = 0.2452 BTC [-]

dexX7: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=310282.msg3317569 another "signature based auth/login system"

ozbot: SQRL: revolutionizes web site login and authentication

frank3: hi guys

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 3 @ 0.10293331 = 0.3088 BTC [+] {3}