#trilema | 2013-10-10

gribble: MtGox lag is 1121.656154 seconds. During this time, light travels 2.24778637393 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin from the Sun to Ceres (in the main asteroid belt) (2.77 AU).

dub: goxxed

pankkake: ;;premium mtgox bitstamp

gribble: mtgox premium over bitstamp is currently 12.0922752586 %.

Namworld: 30 rolls in a row will happen

Namworld: ~ 1 in a billion odds

Namworld: If you started with 10 BTC martingaling with 1 satoshi initial bet, good chance to lose 30 in a row and lose 10 BTC before doubling that 10 BTC.

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 0.1005 BTC [-]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 2 @ 0.1002 = 0.2004 BTC [-]

Vexual: yes that why i dont do it too oft

Vexual: youll also only ear 1 centibit per day average on a 1 satoshi start

Vexual: bit a 3 second roll you can do a lot of days b4 maybe losing

Vexual: nakowra was insane, you cant tak e that much every day

b0n1: Vexual, check the expected value of your strategy and you will recognize its negative...

Vexual: i know

Vexual: theta why im only up 0.05

Vexual: but the same goes for investors

Vexual: while the minimum bet is so far from th maxmum bet so unlike all traditional casinos that are a business, i don't see any success for jsust diice in any kind of time fram relevant to bitcoin

Vexual: people gonnna see the money worth twice as muc and they gonna divest before a profit

Vexual: maybe you canleavr it for years but the risk is too high

Vexual: its not a thing just gambling

Vexual: theres a reason all them casino put all them bet minimum so close to the maxi

Vexual: coz you have to get a money evry day to eat

Vexual: they dont look on a year or a week

b0n1: good point, but a clever investor invests in a way to exploit the law of large numbers and will keep the investment long enough

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 154 @ 0.00217001 = 0.3342 BTC [-]

Vexual: yeah if it lasts 5 years you win, but the model of a real casino wins more often

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 564 @ 0.00215582 = 1.2159 BTC [-] {3}

Vexual: satoshidice was protected by the blockchain

Vexual: no casino with any lifespan accepts one chip bets with 20 billlion on the table

b0n1: Vexual, why 5 years? There are so much bets going on atm, i dont think the frame will be that huge

Vexual: cool, i like maths too

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.954 BTC [-]

Vexual: nakowra dint even do that, he did a thing that couyld be done in vegas

b0n1: Vexual, you are right, traditional casinos make much more money with their limited max and maximized min bets

b0n1: what did nakowra do and why isn't he doing it further?

Vexual: he did something called oceans 88

Vexual: a high rolling chinese comes to a casino, plays, and wins

Vexual: with no recourse of whisky and whores, the casino kicked him out and took a loss

b0n1: without knowing the strategy, why isn't he still doing it?

Vexual: coz they taught him hed won

Vexual: statoshi dice would have kept rollling on the chain

b0n1: what did they do?

Vexual: satoshidice?

b0n1: no, just-dice i mean

Vexual: they ate a dick basically

b0n1: but why don't they do it again

Vexual: i dont think they liked the taste

b0n1: lal... so they found a way to forbid the strat?

Vexual: he was lukcy

Vexual: and he kept pumping like a pimp

b0n1: so he actually should have lost?

Vexual: no he won

b0n1: you said he was lucky so i suppose that he should have lost, but won instead

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 950 @ 0.00084843 = 0.806 BTC [-]

b0n1: well... i think im gonna read that up

Vexual: well the casino is still up

Vexual: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iwC2QljLn4

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 4 @ 0.43 = 1.72 BTC [+]

pankkake: http://trilema.com/2013/snsa-first-product-the-cardano/#comment-95493 +1 especially the revocation certificate, which I forgot existed (though I have mine somewhere…)

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 86 @ 0.00217233 = 0.1868 BTC [+] {2}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 8 @ 0.1001375 = 0.8011 BTC [-] {2}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [XBOND] [PAID] 0.69348300 BTC to 1`386`966 shares, 50 satoshi per share

mircea_popescu: http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2013/09/the-many-flaws-of-dualecdrbg.html

mircea_popescu: shit one learns from one's blog.

davout: yo

mircea_popescu: ello.

davout: so i was reading your reply

davout: i concur when you say the fact the private key is never exported is a feature

mircea_popescu: "and i hate you now"

mircea_popescu: a ok

davout: nah, i never hate :-)

davout: but regarding the revocation cert it's still useful to have

davout: push it to keyservers, everybody gets notified

mircea_popescu: maybe. the one constraint in there, you have to appreciate, is that since we're not doing asics for this,

mircea_popescu: there's just so much space available for code

mircea_popescu: so iot's a game of well what can we fit of what we need to have

davout: ofc

mircea_popescu: if we ever end up selling these by the 10's of ks then an asic run becomes more reasonable and it probably will present a muchly different picture

davout: i'm just saying you're forgetting the main point of the revocation cert (in this specific context) in your answer

mircea_popescu: well, see, the cardano is principally to be used with people you are in contact with.

mircea_popescu: it's ideal usecase is not this, post pubkey on your blog, 20 years later still get encrypted email to that key (you've long lost)

davout: hmm

mircea_popescu: lermme quote here

mircea_popescu: well i can't find it. somewhere phil zimmermann was saying that people still send him pgp encrypted email but he long since doesn't have the key so he usually responds to ask ppl to send it plainly

mircea_popescu: which he figures they might think it's a little strange.

mircea_popescu: anyway. that sort of thing isn't the usecase here, not really. a classic pc implementation works much better.

davout: yeah so it isn't really supposed to be "The safe vault for your precious keys"(TM)

davout: i see

mircea_popescu: nah, it's supposed to be the unbreakable instagpg item.

mircea_popescu: the mothership probably needs a different solution. this is what the xwingers use while in flight

davout: i'm off, gonna build my mini GPG keychain with a raspberry pi and a betamax casing

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3200 @ 0.00085224 = 2.7272 BTC [+]

bitesak: Matthew Green seems a good candidate to review the entropy of Cardano?

mircea_popescu: bitesak sure, if he wants to

mircea_popescu: davout lol

Rulother_: well that script didn't work

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 1 = 3 BTC [+]

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1550 @ 0.00085105 = 1.3191 BTC [-]

mircea_popescu: lol

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 140 @ 0.00998569 = 1.398 BTC [+] {5}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 37 @ 0.00998799 = 0.3696 BTC [+]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 1.05624924 = 4.225 BTC [+] {3}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1.06499999 BTC [+]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 20 @ 0.00900001 = 0.18 BTC [-] {2}

davout: clear

davout: whoops

davout: http://usgovdownforeveryoneorjustme.com/

mircea_popescu: lol

Rulother: nice

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3219 @ 0.00085602 = 2.7555 BTC [+] {3}

jurov: hi davout, how long should the b-c verfication take?

jurov: i'm waiting almost a week

davout: our financial partner is really slow

mircea_popescu: who you working with ? i forget

davout: they're called lemon way

davout: i'm not sure they know about the lemon party

mircea_popescu: youi mean the start-up ?!

mircea_popescu: the "your phone # is your acct #" folks ?

davout: lol yeah

mircea_popescu: yes you do

mircea_popescu: jeez. well this won't last long.

davout: why is that ?

mircea_popescu: cause clueless imo.

davout: let's say that they understand fast, but you gotta speak slowly

mircea_popescu: heh. anyone ELSE work there outside of that burlet fellow ?

davout: yup, witnessed it first hand

davout: you know him?

mircea_popescu: not personally

davout: well, don't go out of your way

mircea_popescu: lol. im sorry, but i have to rely on reams of intel. i can't personalyl know everyone.

mircea_popescu: anyway. mebbe it works out for you, but i'd keep on toes.

ThickAsThieves: http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanmac/2013/10/09/living-with-ross-ulbricht-housemates-say-they-saw-no-clues-of-silk-road-or-the-dread-pirate-roberts/

Diablo-D3: of course they'd say that

Diablo-D3: its a combination of a) opsec, and b) THEIR opsec

mircea_popescu: "kept to himself and spent full days buried in his laptop."

mircea_popescu: dude... kids today. long time on a laptop is fucking egonomics suicide.

mircea_popescu: why. why do they do it.

jurov: is there anything else to do?

mircea_popescu: use a desktop!

jurov: touche

ThickAsThieves: egonomics, invented by mpex

mircea_popescu: i suspect it's quite possible none of the recent kids ever got to use desktops and simply don't know the glory of comfort.

mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves lol

ThickAsThieves: might be a good name for the blog

mircea_popescu: i meant ergonomics! i swear!

ThickAsThieves: popescuian slip

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5543 @ 0.00085746 = 4.7529 BTC [+]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 41 @ 0.009001 = 0.369 BTC [+] {2}

mircea_popescu: i suppose i'll have to write the book now.

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 21 @ 0.00900001 = 0.189 BTC [-]

ThickAsThieves: lol: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=308861.msg1521109;topicseen#new

ThickAsThieves: "You are already rich god damn it."

ThickAsThieves: what the world needs now, BTCT code open-sourced...

jurov: burnside's not sure if he can reliably wipe all passwords

ThickAsThieves: ?

jurov: remember bitcoinica?

ThickAsThieves: before my time

pankkake: "i suspect it's quite possible none of the recent kids ever got to use desktops and simply don't know the glory of comfort." yup

pankkake: they do learn, though. in pain

jurov: ftfy: in vain

ThickAsThieves: maybe that;s why they are such jerks

ThickAsThieves: all this decntralized exchange talk is driving me batty

ThickAsThieves: i started actually responding and making points, but it doesn't help of course

ThickAsThieves: "Direct shares is the only way forward, at this point. The fact that you have not put together a direct share system shows the short-sightedness of management."

jurov: ThickAsThieves: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=93074

pankkake: the other response could be "shut up and code"

pankkake: instead of circlejerking on how colored coins are the future

ThickAsThieves: or, Fuck you.

ThickAsThieves: lastpass, lol

pankkake: "I'm posting my idea here since it hasn't gotten much attention in the Project Development forum (0 replies)"

ThickAsThieves: mp, please write a Here's Why Everyone That Wants Decentralized Exchanges is Moron post

ThickAsThieves: assuming you havent already

jurov: there was kinda such discussion with asciilifeform's proposal on this topic

davout: clear

jurov: davout ?

ThickAsThieves: prepping the defibrillator?

jcpham: flatline

mircea_popescu: skinnkavaj hasa a very interesting take on the world :D

skinnkavaj: mircea_popescu: What?

mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves the relevant bit there is, after the third time bitcoinica was raped, the "bitcoin consultancy" group of dorks self proclaimed into importance & relevance decided to shut it down.

mircea_popescu: after which one of them, the fabled amir taaki, stole the code and published it

LorenzoMoney: yes, a decentralized stock exchange would be wonderful, wouldn't it

mircea_popescu: in what his foggy brain represented as "open sourcing",

mircea_popescu: supposedly if you torrent some movie you're also open sourcing it, cause you don't need a license in the first place to cede rights.

skinnkavaj: mircea_popescu: Did you respond to my comment i just made in neobee thread?

LorenzoMoney: and why are they morons? oh becauseyou area fascist

LorenzoMoney: yes, bet you love Heinlein also

mircea_popescu: anyway. the code contained a lot of good bits including enough info to reconstruct a pw.

mircea_popescu: which resulted in some [more] lost btc.

mircea_popescu: skinnkavaj no it was about the btctc "you're already rich" thing

skinnkavaj: mircea_popescu: Isn't it true?

skinnkavaj: Does burnside need the money?

mircea_popescu: no, it's not true.

mircea_popescu: burnside is poor now, for one. his btct never made anything for the mention, for the other.

skinnkavaj: mircea_popescu: Didn't both litecoinglobal and btct have very huge fees?

mircea_popescu: moreover, poor idiots should not have access to code that SEEMS like it's doing something of that nature.

mircea_popescu: because they'll just fuck their lives up.

skinnkavaj: Ofc burnside is rich.

mircea_popescu: skinnkavaj they had very huge fees. he is not rich. go figure.

mod6: ThickAsThieves: http://trilema.com/2013/why-i-nixed-p2p-colored-coins-and-all-that-jazz/

jurov: and this is not abut burnside. now there's at least some technical barrier to keep your average noob/scammer to start his own exchange

mircea_popescu: ^

skinnkavaj: jurov: Yeah like a free market hurts

skinnkavaj: LOL

mircea_popescu: to start his own WEBSITE which he misrepresents as an exchange.

skinnkavaj: and you are into bitcoin

skinnkavaj: because its sold to a company?

mircea_popescu: a collectiojn of idiots being confused about what they do != a free market.

skinnkavaj: So your argument is like, with open source everything that comes out is just crap?

pankkake: "LorenzoMoney> yes, bet you love Heinlein also" wat

skinnkavaj: And you are using bitcoin

mircea_popescu: no.

skinnkavaj: Lmao

skinnkavaj: Maybe we should sell bitcoin to a company

mircea_popescu: my argument is that you are ill equipped to consider things, as displayed by the very dubious generalisation you just tripped yourself with.

skinnkavaj: Genius

jurov: skinnkavaj: i have seen myself some offers on freelancer "build me a bitcoin exchange", they were obviously clueless on first read

jurov: it's just better for everyone if they don't

ThickAsThieves: mp your colored coins article doesnt address many other problems

skinnkavaj: So what? With a free markey, people will choose where to go. Which one sets up the best BTCT clone will win in the end.

mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves so point them out.

mircea_popescu: anyway, "<jurov> burnside's not sure if he can reliably wipe all passwords" << no, just not sure how to cleanly remove the "give scammers fake btc to fake their volume" code.

ThickAsThieves: the argument of course shifts depending on what problem it is people are trying to solve with decentralization

jurov: skinnkavaj: nope. the one who will manage to keep the bitcoins safe will win

mircea_popescu: of course.

skinnkavaj: jurov: Exactly what i said but in other words

ThickAsThieves: your points are mostly technical, involving the blockchain as being impractical

ThickAsThieves: i'd argue the concept itself is a unicorn

mircea_popescu: skinnkavaj no, not exacvtly what you said at all.

mircea_popescu: forum retards move to what SEEMS TO THEM a better alternative.

mircea_popescu: then they lose their btc.

mircea_popescu: which is ok because new retards come in.

ThickAsThieves: powers will always become ordered, dismantled, ordered, etc

mircea_popescu: if this process is allowed to become "what Bitcoin is" then Bitcoin will never be anything.

skinnkavaj: No, people use the service because its good. Thats the free market. Do you realize why everyone is abonding mtgox?

mircea_popescu: and a bunch of rich powerful people are here to fuck you in the mouth until you bleed

mircea_popescu: rather than let that happen.

mircea_popescu: i dunno how it can be made clearer. "free market" indeed.

ThickAsThieves: i see another conversation is happening sorry

mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves no, im done with the "free market of retards" concept. anyway, re the colored coins :

mircea_popescu: the blockchain is fundamentally a solution to the bizantine problem

mircea_popescu: that problem exists like gravity exists. if you have it you gotta solve it. which is why the article focuses on the blockchain : if you're doing distributed anything, you have the bizantine poblem.

ThickAsThieves: admittedly, it doesnt seem to be the colored coin style developers making wild claims, but the people flocking to these ideas

ThickAsThieves: what i mean is

ThickAsThieves: people see exchanges closing

ThickAsThieves: and that decentralized things are now a solution

ThickAsThieves: colored coin type developers are merely trying to make an accountable ledger

ThickAsThieves: these are not the same things

mircea_popescu: explain the difference ?

ThickAsThieves: well the devs are just trying to make a thing

mircea_popescu: i mean other than "Well different implementations of the same concept"

ThickAsThieves: while the cheerleaders are searching for a replacement for exchanges

pankkake: colored coins do not provide a solution for decentralized *trades*

mircea_popescu: so you envisage a distributed replacement that's NOT at the same time an accountable ledger ?

ThickAsThieves: no

ThickAsThieves: i despise the whole idea

mircea_popescu: not what i meant

mircea_popescu: i meant as a pure concept. could such a thing be conceived

ThickAsThieves: i simply believe any such pursuit is a waste of time

mircea_popescu: pankkake that's you know, like "cancer will get you" for the gunshot wound patient

ThickAsThieves: i see the securities market as an ideal system involving 4 major parties

mircea_popescu: anyway. something like ripple (and tf's abuse thereof) clearly showed what the problems are with trying to get a distributed trust model going.

ThickAsThieves: the Exhange/Platform, Investment Bank/Issuer, Investor, and the issued Business/Financial Instrument

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 81 @ 0.00997734 = 0.8082 BTC [+] {3}

ThickAsThieves: having all 4 allows the alignment of interests

ThickAsThieves: and balance of power/trust

mircea_popescu: this is at least the proven=to=work italian model the modern system is copying.

mircea_popescu: and now i shall be off scarfing smoked salmon and fresh apple pie seasoned with free market tears. bbs.

ThickAsThieves: these powers are made useful/profitable/covenient in their vert centralization

ThickAsThieves: very*

ThickAsThieves: to attempt to "decentralize" merely amounts to breaking things into less useful pieces

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 19 @ 0.00997981 = 0.1896 BTC [+]

ThickAsThieves: thus all my problems with the decentralization of securities movement are conceptual

pankkake: I hereby decentralize ThickAsThieves

pankkake: you are now thick, and a thief

ThickAsThieves: lol

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.00997981 = 0.499 BTC [+] {2}

ThickAsThieves: if you pile on mp's technical arguments about the blockchain's limits in providing a decentralized solution it only makes decentralization that much worse of a pursuit

ThickAsThieves: circling back to, i'd love to see blog article from mp that supported what ive just described

ThickAsThieves: although i guess no one would care much

ThickAsThieves: certainly not the forums

ThickAsThieves: "Such terms is rather ridicules and im sure they wont hold up in court in many country's"

pankkake: I'm not well versed in trade engines, but I don't see how you could execute them in a decentralized way

pankkake: even with only trusted nodes

pankkake: execute trades*

ThickAsThieves: i'm not inclined to find out :)

ThickAsThieves: another area people think decentralization addresses is circumventing SEC and other regulation

ThickAsThieves: this might be possible for nondescript financial instruments

ThickAsThieves: but not actual shares in companies

pankkake: unless the company is a scam, then it can work :)

ThickAsThieves: true

jurov: i dont undersstand, how it can work? i mean, how it protects said comapny from SEC?

ThickAsThieves: it doesnt

ThickAsThieves: thats the point

mircea_popescu: pankkake it's a hell of a problem.

jurov: so to what you said "true" then? i'm confused

ThickAsThieves: scammers would be safe

ThickAsThieves: since they would never say who they really are

ThickAsThieves: thus a decntralized service would make their lives easier

mircea_popescu: ;;google "a company for carrying out an undertaking of great advantage, but nobody to know what it is"

gribble: South Sea Company - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Sea_Company>; Mackay, Charles, Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and ...: <http://www.econlib.org/library/Mackay/macEx2.html>; The Extraordinary Popular Delusion of Believing What You Read ...: <http://blogs.wsj.com/totalreturn/2011/11/11/the-extraordinary-popular-delusion-of- (1 more message)

ThickAsThieves: it's not a normal word?

jurov: no its not, especially if used like: unless the company is a scam, then it can work

jurov: i understood it the opposite way

jurov: like "if the company is a scam, then it can work"

ThickAsThieves: thats correct intepretation

ThickAsThieves: r

jurov: er... i mean.. fuck it

ThickAsThieves: hehe

jurov: maybe it's just perl-induced braindamage

ThickAsThieves: "I think decentralized is the only way to go as this will happen to any other centralized exchange. Looking into the Namecoin code to create a decentralized exchanged. As was said above it can be merged mined with Bitcoin. We could uses our own miners to get it going." Ken Slaughter

mircea_popescu: rather than getting some pmbs that don't melt.

mircea_popescu: because everyone gains when nobody does his job well because he's too busy trying to do poorly the jobs of others.

mircea_popescu: fucking garzik syndrome.

mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2013/and-now-i-shall-be-off-scarfing-smoked-salmon-and-fresh-apple-pie-seasoned-with-free-market-tears-or-why-a-collection-of-confused-retards-does-not-amount-to-a-free-market/

samson_: If shares were issued on their own blockchain and could be freely moved between the various available trading sites / 'share wallets' there would be no real difference in trading a share to trading an altcoin. Something like this would provide no decentralised exchange but it provides a way to hold and move shares independently of any trading platform. Just like Bitcoin.

jborkl: Who would approve- dissaprove securities - The only person I have seen competent in theis matter already has an exchange

jborkl: and do not sat the commnity, because a group of retards approving something is still a group of retards making a decision

samson_: If anyone can create a security then I don't see the big deal. The approval process would happen automatically if people started trading them for Bitcoin. Take these new alt currencies which appear to be created daily - they're not all traded on exchanges hence they're not 'approved'. They still exist but that is irrelevant.

samson_: I guess my take on it is the shares could do with decentralisation, not so much the exchanges.

ThickAsThieves: you'd prefer the stock market to more resemble the altcoin markert?

ThickAsThieves: wasnt it close enough already with labcoins and activeminingcoins

Jere_Jones: lol

Jere_Jones: Were those really things?

ThickAsThieves: they behaved much the same...

ThickAsThieves: lots of people focusing attention on them like a bitcoingem

ThickAsThieves: then bagholders left to be determined

Jere_Jones: I admit that I, at one time or another, owned shares of both.

ThickAsThieves: hordes of ingoramuses asking what is a labcoin and how do i get them?

ThickAsThieves: anxious to hold their thread of the bag

ThickAsThieves: then poof the network disowns it

ThickAsThieves: threads unravel

ThickAsThieves: the bag is empty

ThickAsThieves: at least no one had to waste any GPU power

samson_: It would be nice if we could withdraw shares from an exchange just like a coin.

ThickAsThieves: why

samson_: It would end reliance on 'the exchange' so when it closes down they could be traded elsewhere.

ThickAsThieves: you rely on the issuer

ThickAsThieves: not the exchange

ThickAsThieves: the exchange is a platform

ThickAsThieves: just because you can "withdraw" your share, doesnt mean it will have usefulness in the same ways

ThickAsThieves: realize that in such a system you'd end up with more friction

ThickAsThieves: in time, in cost, etc

ThickAsThieves: me for example, you think i would manage a ledger system for free?

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 64 @ 0.00935 = 0.5984 BTC [-]

ThickAsThieves: even a decentralized system needs a point of issuance

samson_: This is true, I'm not saying it's simple

ThickAsThieves: but you are saying you want it

ThickAsThieves: i'm saying you shouldnt

ThickAsThieves: professional service providers are useful

ThickAsThieves: anarchy is not

samson_: I think it would be an evolution on current uses of blockchains without going down the whole coloured coins route

ThickAsThieves: there are still plenty other issues to address

ThickAsThieves: time is better spent pursuing running legitimate services

ThickAsThieves: imo at least

mircea_popescu: basically the very primitive understanding of freedom has serious trouble coming to terms with the ancient procedure of labour division

mircea_popescu: on the basis of this we could say "the community" is sometime between 12k and 7k BC

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 750 @ 0.00085423 = 0.6407 BTC [-]

jborkl: With respect to the capacitors, an investigation has been undertaken with Anotherhost.se, as they have suffered the issue with all their boards.

jborkl: KNC says all the caps blowing is due to the corsair ps

mircea_popescu: all ?!

mircea_popescu: wait a second. ALL ?!

jborkl: that is what it says

jborkl: It appears that a reasonable solution has been reached in that all the boards this has occurred to seem to have been used alongside the exact same PSU; The Corsair HX850.+

mircea_popescu: dude it's not the power get out.

jborkl: Basically there is an issue with excessive current being applied, after the PU cuts out and the device is turned back on, causing the cap to pop.

mircea_popescu: if all the boards burn its not the capacitors, it's not the power, it's the board.

jborkl: I know, that is a bad diagnosis- it is just wrong

kakobrekla: hum

kakobrekla: but caps exploded / went on fire

jborkl: A better guess- they are drawing too much off the ps- it cuts off to protect itself and the caps pop

kakobrekla: not just poped

kakobrekla: one can overload cap for a short while

kakobrekla: that seems to me like something that happens while under load for some time

jborkl: it has been reported minutes after plugin

mircea_popescu: kakobrekla the current theory i'm crediting is that the boards have bad metal masks in a spot, and it slowly melts the insulation

mircea_popescu: after which it shorts.

kakobrekla: well minutes in an eternity for electricity

jborkl: that is a good theory mp

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 164 @ 0.00259998 = 0.4264 BTC [-]

jborkl: it makes sense- the KNC theory is just flat out wrong

mircea_popescu: jborkl originally it looked like caps just popped but the history since then does nto bear it out

jborkl: The heavy scorch marks some of the boards are showing indicates more than a cap also

mircea_popescu: and moreover it seems the majority of people i showed the pics to say those aren't electrolytic but ceramic

mircea_popescu: which don

mircea_popescu: t pop that way

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1.04987999 BTC [-]

asciilifeform: alternative: solder bridge (short) under the smt ceramic cap.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah because burned boards w/o such bridge were seen

jborkl: EDIT: I should add that KnC are using Corsair V850s themselves, and haven't had an issue with any of them. That said apparently they almost supplied their entire hosting with the HX, but due to the HX being out of stock for the volume required, they bought the V850. Which in hindsight is a wonderful thing.

jborkl: I just saw that

asciilifeform: bridge (accidental short, glob of solder where it doesn't belong) would vaporize in this case

jborkl: so, the entire hosting is being blamed on Corsair

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform vaporize is perhaps an overtstatement.

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 217 @ 0.0026 = 0.5642 BTC [+]

jborkl: capacitors can't be damaged by having current applied "before they've discharged their load"

jborkl: heh, but I can

mircea_popescu: lol the erotic capacitor theory.

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 15 @ 0.00935334 = 0.1403 BTC [-] {2}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 1.022 BTC [-]

kakobrekla: http://www.memecreator.org/static/images/memes/1833214.jpg

kleeck: Beautiful.

mircea_popescu: kakobrekla http://bitbet.us/bet/548/ross-william-ulbricht-will-be-convicted-of-three/#c1587

kakobrekla: dunno if serial but mkay

mircea_popescu: super cereal!

kakobrekla: i need to find a way to avoid this happening for b4x, cause i know it is

kakobrekla: im more skeptical for bb sine theres all these odds in the air that you wont get your money back

mircea_popescu: why's it a bad thing anyway ?

kakobrekla: why is it a good thing?

kakobrekla: more liability for nothing

mircea_popescu: hm

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.9601 = 1.9202 BTC [-]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.96 BTC [-]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 66 @ 0.00899757 = 0.5938 BTC [-] {4}

Namworld: Hmm, did something change with MPEx? pyMPEx doesn't work it seems.

mircea_popescu: Namworld more specifically ?

kakobrekla: did ya load the new key?

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.96 BTC [-]

Namworld: ugh, new key eh...

Namworld: I use the .exe port of pympex

Namworld: I have to use an hex editor to change key I believe

mircea_popescu: ouch.

mircea_popescu: who compiled it ?

Namworld: No idea, can't remember who it was who made the port.

Namworld: But an hex editor usually works fine for changing the url or key to use

mircea_popescu: http://mostodd.wordpress.com/2011/03/10/pando/

ozbot: 50. Pando the Trembling Giant | Most Odd - Facts of Interest

mircea_popescu: alright, that may work then

Namworld: What server is the key on?

mircea_popescu: Namworld http://trilema.com/2013/mpex-status-report/ read that thing

Namworld: That works too, thank you

jurov: http://tofspot.blogspot.sk/2013/10/9-great-ptolemaic-smackdown-from.html i just lost there myself for cople hours

ozbot: The TOF Spot: 9. The Great Ptolemaic Smackdown: From Plausible to Proven

jurov: oh this is the begining: http://tofspot.blogspot.sk/2013/08/the-great-ptolemaic-smackdown.html

jurov: muchly recommend

asciilifeform: i second the rec

asciilifeform: Mike Flynn is an odd fellow. very much 'anti-Enlightenment (TM)'.

qxzn: is there a decent writeup somewhere of that Ripple "demonstration" TradeFortress made?

mircea_popescu: the first article is largely factual

mircea_popescu: qxzn probably not past a number of scammer threads on the forum.

qxzn: aw, that's a shame, it was such a good story

mircea_popescu: yeah i guess so. maybe one of the bloggers recounts it sometime.

Namworld: bah, doesn't work

Namworld: To hell with this

mircea_popescu: Namworld in honestly hexediting seems a little hardcore

Namworld: It worked before when MPEx moved to MPEx.co

Namworld: Those things are plaintext

Namworld: In any hex editor

mircea_popescu: you did also resubmit your pubkey right ?

Namworld: Nope. Would explain it.

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 12 @ 0.008961 = 0.1075 BTC [-]

Namworld: Pubkey has been emailed.

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 75 @ 0.00259998 = 0.195 BTC [-]

mircea_popescu: http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2013/09/rsa-warns-developers-against-its-own.html

ozbot: A Few Thoughts on Cryptographic Engineering: RSA warns developers not to use RSA products

mircea_popescu: for a little lol

mircea_popescu: best part is the "Sam is the boldface" bit lol

Namworld: I see you re-added my key. Thank you.

mircea_popescu: so your evil plan to hexedit an exe compile actually worked ?

KRS1: Effective October 28, 2013 at 4pm CT, Dwolla will be withdrawing its service offerings to virtual currency exchanges and virtual currency related services.

mircea_popescu: KRS1 didn't they do this like... 3 times already ?

Namworld: Yes, it worked

KRS1: I think so, but they're still working with exchanges like campbx.

KRS1: this is probably it

Namworld: Key to use and url to submit appears as plaintext in the compile.

KRS1: Virtual currency is slowly becoming a bad word.

Namworld: Because virtual = Does not exist in people's mind.

Namworld: People just need to learn their bank account statements are just as virtual.

Namworld: If they want something not virtual, they can just hold physical gold and silver or such thing.

KRS1: someone needs to show them that lesson

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 1.03639999 = 5.182 BTC [+] {4}

KRS1: Dwolla says Virtual Currency customers/merchants are 0.1 percent of their customer base..Hmm.

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.00945598 = 0.4728 BTC [+] {3}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 5 @ 0.098002 = 0.49 BTC [-] {2}

mircea_popescu: dwolla has a customer base now ?!

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 1st time i heard of dwolla, the consonant cluster made me think it was a nigerian spam bank.

mircea_popescu: it's a venture circuit scam thing, which is homologuous.

KRS1: one of the only tools people have to move cash in/out of the system

mircea_popescu: for some values of "people".

mircea_popescu: anyway, i guess few are aware, but as per genius satoshi design the main way to move cash into bitcoin is mining

mircea_popescu: (via electricity consumption).

mircea_popescu: this was always the case to date.

mircea_popescu: the 2nd way is... also mining. through miner production.

KRS1: so take fiat out of the equation..are bitcoins actually worth anything then? I dont know of anything you can do with them besides get some goods and services, best case.

mircea_popescu: yes, they are.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if only this worked in reverse gear.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the reason it can't work in reverse gear is that fiat is worthless.

asciilifeform: i was thinking more along the lines of btc to watts, rather than dollars

KRS1: I apparently stepped into a chat room on another planet.

asciilifeform: KRS1: nah, that's at #urbit

KRS1: lol for real

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i expect we will have brtc to watts.

KRS1: but what about the Nigerian Sperm bank?

mircea_popescu: recently i had a wire fail to a supplier, and they were "well, send me bitcoin ?"

Namworld: Supplier of what?

Namworld: Wish everyone did that

mircea_popescu: electronic parts.

mircea_popescu: course, electricity is a monopoly in most places for good physical reasons, so i guess the btc to watt thing will be one of the later parts.

mircea_popescu: but this changes little really.

jurov: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1o5enf/just_got_this_insane_email_from_bitstamp/

mircea_popescu: "Bitcoins will be transferred only after conversion into a currency."

mircea_popescu: herp

mircea_popescu: We kindly ask you to withdraw your Bitcoins to a wallet outside of Bitstamp.net. If you do not withdraw your Bitcoins in 24 hours as instructed in the previous paragraph, please provide us with a valid bank account held in your name in a reply to this Account Termination Notice so Bitstamp can proceed with your Account termination and send you the currencies credited to your Account within 14 business days after your

mircea_popescu: Account has been terminated.

mircea_popescu: pretty illogical.

kakobrekla: does the css look good?

mircea_popescu: "You must have mentioned Fiat Banking."

jurov: OP says below it's not a scam cuz they did close the acct

mircea_popescu: that made it worth it lol

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B] [XBOND] 397 @ 0.001229 = 0.4879 BTC [-]

jurov: ;;bc,stats

jurov: heh right on track

jurov: maybe it will produce 1278th block on oct 17, 00:00:01 and CB.IDIFF-E holders will eat me alive :D

jborkl: "KNC support just emailed me back saying that 440 ghash (what 50btc reports), 900 watts from the wall, and chip temps of 65-72c in a 58F room are 'within spec'...Not awesome."

jurov: dip it in lube

jurov: er.. oil

kakobrekla: ;;calc 440/900

gribble: 0.488888888889

mircea_popescu: i forget what the spec was supposed to be

kakobrekla: dunno

jurov: >350GH/s, <1KW for Jupiter

jborkl: Mineral oil is so expensive, I have thought about it many times-

jurov: and it can't be changed for water cooler, can be?

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 100 @ 0.00968748 = 0.9687 BTC [+] {6}

jborkl: I would have to look at it and see what would fit it, otherwise that could get really expensive - it also might too big of a system to cool it

jborkl: ight be too

jborkl: m

kakobrekla: watercooling is prolly not worth it

jborkl: I thinnk I am going to dnk a blade in mineral oil and see how it does on temps - just for the hell of it

mircea_popescu: so then 900 watt 440 gh is indeed in spec neh ?

mircea_popescu: jurov nah, you need special oil pumps.

kakobrekla: for water cooling a pc? not rly

jurov: i'm no expert.. supposedly it works with normal pc (except hdd), but 1kW is prolly too much

mircea_popescu: jborkl nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1437.pdf‎

jurov: i mean, submerging it into oil

mircea_popescu: make sure you know what you're doing with that.

mircea_popescu: it has a slight but present fire hazard and is toxic if it burns.

mircea_popescu: also a bitch to extinguish

jborkl: hmm, well maybe not then

kakobrekla: you can test if the blown cap can set it on fire

mircea_popescu: lol

ozbot: And now I shall be off scarfing smoked salmon and fresh apple pie seasoned with free market tears, o

mircea_popescu: this is turning into quite the argument

jborkl: I wonder how the KNC hosting center is holding up to 900 w per unit? Reptilla should take trip to the sauna in there

jborkl: considering they bought 850 w power supplies, as per the photos

mircea_popescu: good AC should be able to pump out something in the .1 to 1 MW per floor

mircea_popescu: o

jurov: good PSU's can supply more than rated but still something's fishy

mircea_popescu: it is possible the unit just works with whatever power it's being fed.

mircea_popescu: the knc ppl are slightly underfeeding it,w hich is why it doesn't pop as much ?

jurov: which is why it doesn't pop as much ? lol

mircea_popescu: well they said theirs don't explode right ?

jborkl: http://imgur.com/a/s44NM

ozbot: KNC Jupiter - Imgur

jborkl: nice shipping

nanotube: mircea_popescu: http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/09/fatal-crypto-flaw-in-some-government-certified-smartcards-makes-forgery-a-snap/ <- make sure your s.nsa product isn't stupid like this. :)

mircea_popescu: im just here to collect the praise. admonitions go to asciilifeform :D

mircea_popescu: anyway, someone should make a web key checker already

jurov: As many of 10,000 of these smartcards may provide little or no cryptographic protection despite receiving two internationally recognized certifications.

jurov: ^ the web checker would be no better than these certifications

jurov: and i don't see how would devote hours to try cracking all submitted keys like the researchers did

mircea_popescu: jurov it couldn't identify a good key, but it could identify a bad one

jurov: nosuchagency can provide it.. as a marketing tool

mircea_popescu: perhaps.

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @ 0.00085104 = 2.6382 BTC [-]

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 246 @ 0.0024189 = 0.595 BTC [-] {2}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 400 @ 0.00223127 = 0.8925 BTC [-] {6}

ThickAsThieves: ;;nethash

gribble: 1768924.77853

ThickAsThieves: ;;bcstats

KRS-: Hey vexual you might like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwGdzkJD5N8

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 450 @ 0.00084959 = 0.3823 BTC [-]

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7500 @ 0.00084917 = 6.3688 BTC [-] {2}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2960 @ 0.00019003 = 0.5625 BTC [-] {4}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 4897 @ 0.00019002 = 0.9305 BTC [-] {3}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 6058 @ 0.00019 = 1.151 BTC [-] {3}

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1900 @ 0.00084776 = 1.6107 BTC [-]

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 607 @ 0.00084806 = 0.5148 BTC [+]

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4350 @ 0.00085276 = 3.7095 BTC [+]

BingoBoingo: So... I think math is broke. Apparently the public key for one of my addresses can hash into a different addresss.

mircea_popescu: that's odd. you mean with a different hash ?

nanotube: mircea_popescu> im just here to collect the praise. admonitions go to asciilifeform :D <- in that case... good idea, that cardano thing! :)

mircea_popescu: ty ty

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Yeah. I'm working on a report. The report will probably be in the form of a post titled "Fuckity Fuck Fuck" as I GPG sign a revocation of a certain address's message signing privileges.

pankkake: BingoBoingo: it's actually very common for gpg (the short pub key)

mircea_popescu: try and reproduce the behaviour first.

pankkake: it happened to me too

pankkake: that's why people should give the full fingerprint

Jere_Jones: BingoBoingo: Bitcoin addresses are hashed public keys, right? The private key that corresponds to that public key actually has two public keys. A compressed version and a noncompressed version.

BingoBoingo: pankkake: This isn't GPG. It is RIPEMD 160 being able to assign a public key two (maybe more) bitcoin addresses.

Jere_Jones: Well, yeah.

Jere_Jones: 256 bits doesn't fit into 160 bits.

BingoBoingo: Fucking NSA bullshit undermining the Integrity of Mathematics.

Jere_Jones: I imagined it to be exceedingly rare though.

pankkake: oh

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo that's not possible.

mircea_popescu: multiple privates might hash to the same one address, but that's insanely rare.

mircea_popescu: the same private having ambiguous results however is impossible.

mircea_popescu: the first would be a collision. the second would be a case of 4+5 being sometimes 8, sometimes 9

Jere_Jones: BingoBoingo, are you saying the same 256 bit public key ran through RIPEMD160 gave you two different answers?

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Jere_Jones It is just a standard Bitcoin address's underlying public key. mircea_popescu I'm not sure what to think anymoar. I will say fuck vanitygen.

mircea_popescu: you using a web based service to make the keys ?

mircea_popescu: they're shit. i could never get them to make usable addresses.

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: The key wasn't generated on a web based service, but a web based service turned the public key into an unexpected address.

mircea_popescu: because they're broken lol

mircea_popescu: retry with the original method.

Jere_Jones: If you have the private key, turn that into the other public key and see if that gives you the address you're looking for.

BingoBoingo: 1LC9GzYK1zjrG9zAvMPExcwHTP8aPYPMyY apparently is an imposter for my beloved 1LvCuntsJyFFQsLuJhBXBPokbQa7SAyMr4 address in the message signed on my contacts and credentials page. I'm trying more messages at the moment, but it looks like GPG is going to have to save the day.

Jere_Jones: I can help you but you need the private key.

mircea_popescu: i think you're jumping to conclusions.

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Maybe.

BingoBoingo: Maybe I should go to #bitcoin-dev or wherever the muppets live and troll them up a bit with this.

mircea_popescu: use a proper process to turn privkey into pubkey then hash that and see what you get.

mircea_popescu: wherwe website != proper process

dexX7: mind to give out some samples like messages + signatures for both addresses?

BingoBoingo: dexX7: plug the message and signature here http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/contact-and-credentials/ into http://brainwallet.org/#verify

Jere_Jones: 1LC9GzYK1zjrG9zAvMPExcwHTP8aPYPMyY

dexX7: i see, sec

BingoBoingo: The problem is that 1LC9GzYK1zjrG9zAvMPExcwHTP8aPYPMyY could have signed the same message. Maybe it could have signed a more malicious message. Fuck. Just because elliptic curves are sexy doesn't mean they should be used everywhere.

mircea_popescu: i bet you 1LC9GzYK1zjrG9zAvMPExcwHTP8aPYPMyY could not have signed the same message.

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Maybe. Maybe it is just some odd intersection and I need to go back to adding giberish at the end of everything I sign.

Jere_Jones: I'm not showing that message verigying with 1LvCunts

mircea_popescu: i tell uyou, the brainwallet implementation is borkt.

mircea_popescu: might be because of how javascript runs on some systems

BingoBoingo: Jere_Jones: At the most charitable where there isn't a collision it ought probably assumed at a minimum Bitcoin address signing merely sucks and is poorly implemented. If you are the sort who goes for minimums.

Jere_Jones: It doesn't verify in bitcoin-qt

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Maybe. You'd think they could at least verify things right.

dexX7: hehe odd

dexX7: 1HF8us88HGVh7gYEJpjxXS79AW2vDyZiAp

dexX7: is the address that is resolved for this msg/signature

mircea_popescu: ha!

mircea_popescu: so that's a third.

BingoBoingo: Maybe the problem isn't the signature or the message. Maybe Bitcoin Address signing is just fucked.

dexX7: the other two are invalid

mircea_popescu: listen, use a witness signature implementation and check.

mircea_popescu: the site is whack.

dexX7: verified with stock btc client + some php lib that i'm using to resolve (msg, sig) -> addr

dexX7: but it actually should work with "1LvCuntsJyFFQsLuJhBXBPokbQa7SAyMr4"?

Jere_Jones: Yep. bitcoin-qt verified it with that address.

dexX7: not for me

Jere_Jones: I meant 1HF8us

BingoBoingo: Jeff Gazarizadickbag can suck mine.

dexX7: http://i.imgur.com/GLnJGZ9.png

dexX7: ah k

mircea_popescu: hm

mircea_popescu: they have some bug in the sig implementation ?

mircea_popescu: anyone willing to make 1k keys, sign 1k messages and see if the signed messages actually resolve to the proper keys ?

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Probably they have a bug, in the least bad imagining of things.

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo are you sure you didn't sign with that other address tghrough some process involving for instance vodka ?

[\]: lol

[\]: Are you sure you even signed it and didn't copy the sig from someone else?

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Rather sure. I don't have a key for that other address in any of my wallets. The pages on the blog were some of the few things I remember making sober.

mircea_popescu: apparently sober is bad luck for you. anyway, this warrants some testing.

[\]: not really

[\]: address signing isn't a replacement for gpg signing

mircea_popescu: no, but if address signing works so you sign with one address and it verifyes with another i'd like to know

[\]: Why?

mircea_popescu: because there's enough lols in there to keep us going through a day or two even

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1600 @ 0.0008514 = 1.3622 BTC [-]

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Yeah, in the meantime: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/contact-and-credentials/ I'll be watching BitBet rather closely to sweep any winnings to safer addresses.

[\]: has AM listed on MPEX yet?

mircea_popescu: mnop

[\]: q

mircea_popescu: ;;ident BingoBoingo

gribble: Nick 'BingoBoingo', with hostmask 'BingoBoingo!~BingoBoin@unaffiliated/bingoboingo', is not identified.

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Let me gribble real quick

mircea_popescu: just wanted to see if you made an accct

mircea_popescu: whoa!

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I finally made a nickserve account

mircea_popescu: i just got pointed out to me that 1LC9GzYK1zjrG9zAv >>MPEx<< cwHTP8aPYPMyY

mircea_popescu: all your itams are belong to me ?

Jere_Jones: I wonder if Havelock is being DDOS'd or if they just can't handle the load of being the stock exchange that receives the most traffic.

BingoBoingo: ;;ident BingoBoingo

gribble: Nick 'BingoBoingo', with hostmask 'BingoBoingo!~BingoBoin@unaffiliated/bingoboingo', is identified as user BingoBoingo, with GPG key id 309BB8D7F3251143, key fingerprint ADD7A9A28F85E5EF1F51904F309BB8D7F3251143, and bitcoin address None

BingoBoingo: I have updated http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/contact-and-credentials/

mircea_popescu: Jere_Jones not that much trading for all that traffic.

Jere_Jones: I *know*!

BingoBoingo: It's kind of funny I registered with gribble months ago, yet on I only registered with nickserv last week.

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu asciilifeform: Is there a rough estimate on how the Cardano will be priced?

mircea_popescu: well surely there is, but it's not public.

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'm a bit curious because the Cardono seems like something a person would purchase a few of.

mircea_popescu: one for each gf!

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: One for each girl. One for each dude providing muscle. The possibilities are endless. General Patraeus would have had a career if only he could have given his side bitch a Cardano.

mircea_popescu: aptly put

BingoBoingo: I imagine a Cardano gift set with lacey panties and a digital camera and a second gift set with a Cardano and a blackjack.

mircea_popescu: anyway, to quote the main man, <asciilifeform> here

mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> shaving pennies off the draft design

Jere_Jones: BingoBoingo: It appears that the people with the expertise you need aren't paying attention in #bitcoin-dev. I'd try back in 12 hours.

BingoBoingo: Jere_Jones: Honestly it doesn't seem like a matter where I need their expertise so much as they need my accident. I mean if they know how this IRC thing works they will know to scroll up.

BingoBoingo: Jere_Jones: If they don't know to scroll up or check logs why are they on the internet and not Facebook.

Jere_Jones: They will, honestly, need more details. A bug report without replication steps is fairly useless.

mircea_popescu: that's a point.

BingoBoingo: Jere_Jones: Well I'm not offering the private key until at least the last BitBet associated with that address resolves. Maybe some elliptic surves intersected at the point of that message. Maybe it is something worse. It is honestly more their problem than mine though I will be happy to offer them information short of the private key. The replication steps are surprisingly short and I imagine unhelpful.

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you wouldn't offer the private key tho

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Of course not, unless someone was paying out more for it than the outstanding BitBet Bets paying to the derived address.

mircea_popescu: can you sign another message with that address btw ?

mircea_popescu: you could do this as a succession of screenshots. here i sign X with address Y

mircea_popescu: here i try to check it and it checks to address Z

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Sure, just for shits and giggles I will hope it isn't some PRNG problem.

dexX7: 1. ’ is the source 2. ’ != ´ 3. strlen("’") = 3 x_X 4. it creates a not matching signature every time, if you use ’ + more than 250 other chars

mircea_popescu: wait what ?

dexX7: yup

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: http://bitbin.it/kChBkUKd dexX7 Are you implying Bitcoin address signatures are more worthless than I though?

mircea_popescu: dexX7 let me say this myself to see.

mircea_popescu: if using particular characters such as ´, the signing goes bonkers creating signatures that go with random addresses instead of the correct address ?

dexX7: only if you add >= 250 other chars

mircea_popescu: wow.

mircea_popescu: how do you know this ?

BingoBoingo: Fuck this is why Bitcoin needs a mother fucking Spec.

dexX7: i tested it by shortening the message and replacing the chars with others

BingoBoingo: dexX7: Still, there is no reason why Bitcoin address signed messages can't have a container like GPG signatures do. It would be so much easier to demonstrate this is broken or solid if only there were a standard container for signed messages.

dexX7: like ----BEGIN ...?

BingoBoingo: dexX7: I don't know if that is sarcasm, but yes. That is actually incredibly useful to have.

dexX7: i see. yes, it is.

BingoBoingo: dexX7: For better or worse the GPG armored format lets idiots import keys and signatures. I contrast the bitcoin address format has not container and simply solicits information. Apparently that information can often be wrong.

mircea_popescu: dexX7 well wd.

mircea_popescu: this is so much derp i have trouble believing it.

dexX7: did you test it?

mircea_popescu: i don't even dare imagine what'd have happened should anyone have taken garzik's alternative exchange seriously and puit money/effort into that

mircea_popescu: only to discover 6 months later that well...

BingoBoingo: I'm probably just going to watch this for a few times, cum, and then take a relaxing walk. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdJRafNcfkw

mircea_popescu: dexX7 nope, i don't have software that does the signature stuff.

dexX7: no standard btc client?

mircea_popescu: nothing recent.

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I've also started and aborted a tor study.

BingoBoingo: Box got owned. Nothing subtle at all.

mircea_popescu: lol

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: care to elaborate ?

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'm authed on gribble /msg me and I will offer some things on a more disposable venue

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: If you want a lot of details use http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/pgp/ directed at bingoboingo357@gmail.com

KRS-: nice video

[\]: ;;ident

gribble: You are not identified.

[\]: lies!

[\]: ;;ident

gribble: You are identified as user imsaguy, with GPG key id 7D7EA76776E6CE48, key fingerprint A1398F4C58AC3D387F012AFA7D7EA76776E6CE48, and bitcoin address 1Hf5qWZzd2WsrDwLhkykNc4uXPAkykg9PM

[\]: now someone send some dust to that address ^

[\]: I gotta try something out

assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2842 @ 0.00084966 = 2.4147 BTC [-] {2}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 153 @ 0.00970521 = 1.4849 BTC [-] {6}

assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.965454 = 5.7927 BTC [-] {5}

← 2013-10-09 | 2013-10-11 → ↑