Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2013-05-23 | 2013-05-25 → ↓
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3950 @ 0.00071038 = 2.806 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00071117 = 3.073 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7729 @ 0.00071118 = 5.4967 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 3 @ 0.0257 = 0.0771 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 5 @ 0.01019 = 0.051 BTC [+]
_aknap3: thestringpuller: I wouldn't know, to compare
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 4 @ 0.025489 = 0.102 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 3 @ 0.0257 = 0.0771 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 36 @ 0.02549 = 0.9176 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22642 @ 0.00071118 = 16.1025 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1170 @ 0.00071174 = 0.8327 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.61 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 122 @ 0.0255 = 3.111 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 20 @ 0.0255 = 0.51 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 15 @ 0.0258 = 0.387 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 25 @ 0.0258 = 0.645 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 100 @ 0.0256 = 2.56 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 98 @ 0.0255 = 2.499 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 97 @ 0.0255 = 2.4735 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.6 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 35 @ 0.0255 = 0.8925 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BITVPS] 247 @ 0.00085 = 0.21 BTC [+]
Chaaang-Noi: yeah over 2.5 wh0000
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 40 @ 0.0255 = 1.02 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 24 @ 0.0255 = 0.612 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 5 @ 0.002875 = 0.0144 BTC [-]
Chaaang-Noi: s.dice is still haning in there
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 20 @ 0.0255 = 0.51 BTC [-]
foglight: good value at 0.002x ,imo
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.270001 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 11 @ 0.27 = 2.97 BTC [-]
Chaaang-Noi: looking for .001 here
foglight: arent we all
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 38 @ 0.02589 = 0.9838 BTC [+]
foglight: maybe exciting things are around the corner. maybe they'll change the background to blue
Chaaang-Noi: some risks like eric knowning the secret daily password so he or a hacker could take that number and win all the money, us govt, people lose interest, .001 id buy a few but not many
truffles: the sky is blue
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 140 @ 0.0255 = 3.57 BTC [+]
ll: secret password?
foglight: def some risks
truffles: tin foil moment?
foglight: always in btcland
Chaaang-Noi: at anytime eric or a hacker could steall all the funds, it is a risk
Chaaang-Noi: not sayig it will happen
Chaaang-Noi: saying it could happen and it is likely enough to think about when buying the stock
Chaaang-Noi: 50% or more of these sort of thing go tits up cuz of "hacker"
foglight: truth
foglight: but i've made a lot off s.dice :D
foglight: in the past
assbot: [BTCTC] [BITVPS] 5 @ 0.000858 = 0.0043 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [MININGCO.ETF] 2 @ 0.74 = 1.48 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 11 @ 0.0248 = 0.2728 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.27 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BITVPS] 7 @ 0.000858 = 0.006 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.27 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 39 @ 0.0255 = 0.9945 BTC [+]
bdk_kluge: I made a lot off Pirate in the past.
bdk_kluge: He just didn't give the hack excuse.
truffles: "Lindstrand has been urging companies to more aggressively pursue balloon-based wireless networks but says that no one has stepped up yet. "[Google X's Plan to Wire the World]
truffles: haha excuse
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.588501 BTC [-]
bdk_kluge: How much would one of these balloons cost? What's involved in maintenance? I'm lacking towers in my area, and sure can't justify the cost of erecting one just for my own thing...
bdk_kluge: May actually be very viable in rural, forested areas.
truffles: theyre for non western countries im guessing
bdk_kluge: I was thinking about just mounting big metal arms on hill-top trees, but that's kind of a sucky solution.
truffles: let me just link u the article..
KRS-1: wouldnt bad weather move the balloons all around
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 200 @ 0.002873 = 0.5746 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 85 @ 0.002875 = 0.2444 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 83 @ 0.00288 = 0.239 BTC [+]
Chaaang-Noi: bdk_kluge> He just didn't give the hack excuse. he did not say anything much, we still dont know :/
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 122 @ 0.002885 = 0.352 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 81 @ 0.00289 = 0.2341 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 279 @ 0.00289 = 0.8063 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 120 @ 0.0255 = 3.06 BTC [+]
bdk_kluge: Thanks.
truffles: yea confirms my theory wanting to take over the world
bdk_kluge: Haven't they pretty much, already?
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 31 @ 0.0255 = 0.7905 BTC [+]
truffles: no i still mainly use ymail
bdk_kluge: "But solar-powered balloons packed with a fuel cell and an onboard motor can remain stationary for up to five years and are “perfectly feasible.”" Idea died right there for me.
bdk_kluge: "it needs to be created by a small elite team with past airship experience" lol
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 20 @ 0.0255 = 0.51 BTC [+]
truffles: elite teams ftw
bdk_kluge: Disappointment.
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 4 @ 0.19 = 0.76 BTC [-]
bdk_kluge: Wonder if you could just chain the balloons to something physical. I never measured wattage draw of Ubiquiti radio.... wonder how reasonable this is.
bdk_kluge: If the chain were tight, it might not move around too much to be unreasonable?
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 11 @ 0.0255 = 0.2805 BTC [+]
truffles: u r srs eh
assbot: [BTCTC] [BITVPS] 25 @ 0.000857 = 0.0214 BTC [-]
truffles: dont assist in world domination!
bdk_kluge: Well, it can be tested out with trash bags and tape, so Hell yeah!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4230 @ 0.00071174 = 3.0107 BTC [+]
ericmuyser: i really dont see what sdice can do to recover. stale mate
truffles: i can
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.608999 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 2 @ 0.609 = 1.218 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 6 @ 0.19 = 1.14 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 11 @ 0.0255 = 0.2805 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6270 @ 0.0007118 = 4.463 BTC [+]
Chaaang-Noi: massive buy and sell walls ??? at gox?
Chaaang-Noi: 25k coins to $10 either way, in fucking sane
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 2 @ 0.10989 = 0.2198 BTC [-]
bdk_kluge: Pfff - only $3m?
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.0255 BTC [+]
truffles: cyptomoney isnt real ldo
bdk_kluge: Doesn't the double-wall generally indicate someone wants to manipulate us upward with fake stability? :p
dub: np
dub: no*
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00070814 = 3.0599 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7779 @ 0.00070813 = 5.5085 BTC [-]
Chaaang-Noi: i will also go with no
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 67 @ 0.0255 = 1.7085 BTC [+]
Chaaang-Noi: looks like they are trying to force stability, and im okay with that
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 6 @ 0.109988 = 0.6599 BTC [+]
bdk_kluge: Force stability for what?
Chaaang-Noi: stable price
Chaaang-Noi: so media quits bitching about the unstability
bdk_kluge: They don't believe stability will aid in adoption and mid-term increase price?
bdk_kluge: (adoption, and more importantly, confidence)
Chaaang-Noi: stability and increase in price are oppisets
Chaaang-Noi: but yes, mid term to long term you are right
ericmuyser: oppisets..
Chaaang-Noi: that is the thinking
Chaaang-Noi: <ericmuyser> oppisets.. yes sir
bdk_kluge: Or maybe it's a trap and I'm supposed to think the wall will enforce stability, when it's actually just readying for a massive dump!
ericmuyser: or it's a wall and that's it
bdk_kluge: But there are TWO walls! You can't explain that!
bdk_kluge: Like fuckin' magnets...
Chaaang-Noi: im honestly shocked we are even over $100
ericmuyser: ya we survived a bubble without much dispair
ericmuyser: should be really happy about that
Chaaang-Noi: but man, i have a shit load of powder to buy back in
Chaaang-Noi: i wanted 70$ btc
ericmuyser: ya so the wall is a bit closer on the up side this time by $5 and doubled, and highest it usually gets.. pretty cool
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.0007133 = 3.0822 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10479 @ 0.00071361 = 7.4779 BTC [+]
ericmuyser: market cap is almost 1.5 bil, sick
ericmuyser: and AM is 130 mil kinda stable..
ericmuyser: shock and awe
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 4 @ 0.0255 = 0.102 BTC [+]
Chaaang-Noi: i heart crypto
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 11 @ 0.02558 = 0.2814 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 51 @ 0.02559 = 1.3051 BTC [+]
qxzn: ericmuyser: what does AM stand for?
ericmuyser: asicminer
qxzn: ah ok
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 12 @ 0.02565 = 0.3078 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 2 @ 0.0007 = 0.0014 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.02565 = 0.1283 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00071078 = 3.0713 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14829 @ 0.00071066 = 10.5384 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 4 @ 0.0254111 = 0.1016 BTC [-]
Chaaang-Noi: i see some btc auction
Chaaang-Noi: action* 127 wh000
Chaaang-Noi: wow wnt awat to walk dogs for 2 hours, almost nothing has pahhpened with asse3ts
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 2 @ 0.175 = 0.35 BTC [-]
bdk_kluge: It's 11p-3a in ImportantVille. What could possibly happen?
Chaaang-Noi: im used to see much more action
bdk_kluge: Well, go visit your gf, then
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 6 @ 0.27 = 1.62 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 3 @ 0.02575 = 0.0773 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 9 @ 2.4499 = 22.0491 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 32 @ 0.02565 = 0.8208 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.0257 = 0.0514 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 10 @ 2.45 = 24.5 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 15 @ 0.0257 = 0.3855 BTC [+]
saulimus: you know what would be cool? a S&P500 type of chart for all stocks on an exchange. would give a nice overview of stocks' performance.. it's annoying to just look at numbers
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 8 @ 0.02575 = 0.206 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 6 @ 0.02575 = 0.1545 BTC [+]
saulimus: also, I'm lazy
bdk_kluge: Email CNBC.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 6 @ 0.02589 = 0.1553 BTC [+]
Chaaang-Noi: bitcoin is listed at cnbc already
Chaaang-Noi: but not btc stocks :)
bdk_kluge: (yet!)
Chaaang-Noi: we would need a real exchange first
Chaaang-Noi: the best stock AM is not even listed on an exchange
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 2 @ 1.1326 = 2.2652 BTC [+]
Chaaang-Noi: self managed
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [KCIM] 2 @ 1.1327 = 2.2654 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.58 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 2.55 = 10.2 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 7 @ 0.0257 = 0.1799 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 2.55 = 15.3 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 68 @ 0.02589 = 1.7605 BTC [+]
davout: hello fine assets crowd
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 10 @ 0.02589 = 0.2589 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.57 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.579 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BITVPS] 125 @ 0.000857 = 0.1071 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BITVPS] 375 @ 0.000857 = 0.3214 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.579 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.579 = 5.158 BTC [+]
Namworld: Hello
bdk_kluge: Hello, world
Namworld: <?php echo 'Hello, world!'; ?>
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 94 @ 0.02589 = 2.4337 BTC [+]
parseval: inhies: Are you there?
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 20 @ 0.0257 = 0.514 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.4298 = 0.8596 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.43 = 0.86 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.43 = 0.86 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 5 @ 0.4439 = 2.2195 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 28 @ 0.444 = 12.432 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 15 @ 0.0007 = 0.0105 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.0257 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 142 @ 0.0257 = 3.6494 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 13 @ 0.0257 = 0.3341 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 40 @ 0.02589 = 1.0356 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 2 @ 0.444 = 0.888 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 9 @ 0.02589 = 0.233 BTC [+]
inhies: parseval: i am now
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.6089 BTC [-]
inhies: still around? i just got home
inhies: ah yea
inhies: just saw your post in the thread
inhies: thank you, i'll have to dig through it
inhies: i think i know enough python to make sense of it :)
parseval: If you're doing an app for yourself then you only need to run it once to get the credentials, then you can just save them
parseval: No more of that copy/paste stuff.
parseval: Now I'm having a problem in the same area.. it's like the only thing that works are the oob credentials. No callbacks are being made..
parseval: I know they must be, somehow, because they work on btcjam, but it's not visiting my callback_url at all
inhies: ah yea
inhies: its not the verification that gets saved though is it?
inhies: i thoguht it was the credentials that ge made AFTER that
inhies: but i havent made it passed that yet with btctc and its been awhile since ive done oauth with anything else
parseval: Right, after you paste the verifier you will get another secret
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.609 BTC [+]
inhies: yea, tahts what i saved before
inhies: but im getting invalid verifier
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 2 @ 0.61 = 1.22 BTC [+]
inhies: ill look over this code tomorrow, its bedtime
inhies: thank you for this
inhies: if i cant get this to work i'll show you my code (its Go though)
inhies: and maybe we can figure it out
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.02589 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10500 @ 0.00071128 = 7.4684 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4900 @ 0.00071066 = 3.4822 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 1 @ 0.0114 BTC [-]
parseval: Alright
parseval: Night
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1487 @ 0.00071264 = 1.0597 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: (scientists identify cell of limb regeneration)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3371 @ 0.00071361 = 2.4056 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4321 @ 0.00071364 = 3.0836 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11721 @ 0.00071365 = 8.3647 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.289999 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 2 @ 0.29 = 0.58 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.0258 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.0257 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 38 @ 0.0258 = 0.9804 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 100 @ 0.02579 = 2.579 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 26 @ 0.02575 = 0.6695 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 86 @ 0.02575 = 2.2145 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 2 @ 0.618 = 1.236 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 35 @ 0.0257 = 0.8995 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10583 @ 0.00071343 = 7.5502 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 60 @ 0.0255 = 1.53 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 3 @ 0.0254 = 0.0762 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 14 @ 0.02575 = 0.3605 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 76 @ 0.0254111 = 1.9312 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 272 @ 0.02540001 = 6.9088 BTC [-]
fiat500: hm, did AM stop solomining?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 228 @ 0.02540001 = 5.7912 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 750 @ 0.0254 = 19.05 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 22 @ 0.0254 = 0.5588 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 22 @ 0.0258 = 0.5676 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: they have about 5th offline atm http://www.asicminercharts.com/live/
mircea_popescu: why is that ?
ThickAsThieves: ;;nethash
gribble: 91261.2224951
ThickAsThieves: they usually have some go offline when thet are adding or tweaking
ThickAsThieves: temporary
ThickAsThieves: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 237674 | Current Difficulty: 1.1187257461360792E7 | Next Difficulty At Block: 237887 | Next Difficulty In: 213 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 5 hours, 12 minutes, and 41 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 12062213.1227 | Estimated Percent Change: 7.821
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 4 @ 0.02588 = 0.1035 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 1.6 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "I am willing to pay top dollar for someone to help me cosign a mortgage. I have no family I can ask. I have good credit and equity. I need someone in California with good credit and high income."
mircea_popescu: bwagagaga ok this is the best yet.
fiat500: sign me up!
bdk_kluge: I'd imagine there'd be quite a few drug dealers interested in creating such an offer.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.535 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: as opposed to you know... simply bankrupt people.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.579 = 5.158 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.58 = 5.16 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 4 @ 0.0258 = 0.1032 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.525 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.589 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 2.589 = 10.356 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.525001 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 61 @ 0.02588 = 1.5787 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 8 @ 0.02589 = 0.2071 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.02589 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.0258 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 7 @ 0.00287 = 0.0201 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.5101 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.576 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 2.51 = 7.53 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.51 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.02589 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.565 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.57 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.51 = 5.02 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.505 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.512 BTC [+]
dub: !ticker bc asicminer-pt
assbot: Aren't those tins of tobacco right there behind you?
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.5001 BTC [-]
dub: !ticker bt asicminer-pt
assbot: [BTCT:ASICMINER-PT] 1D: 2.314 / 2.44787 / 2.589 (1144 shares, 2800.4 BTC), 7D: 1.81 / 2.3486 / 2.743 (5660 shares, 13293.1 BTC), 30D: 1.0711 / 1.82434 / 2.743 (13397 shares, 24440.7 BTC)
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.50011 = 5.0002 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 4 @ 0.02589 = 0.1036 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.0256 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.538 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.538 = 5.076 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.538 = 5.076 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 2.539 = 10.156 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.538 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 12 @ 0.02589 = 0.3107 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.51 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.02589 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.543999 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 2.51 = 7.53 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.507 = 5.014 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.506 = 5.012 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.505 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.501 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.500002 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 203 @ 2.500001 = 507.5002 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 8 @ 2.5 = 20 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 10 @ 0.0258 = 0.258 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.501001 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.501 = 5.002 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.0256 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 38 @ 0.0256 = 0.9728 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.02551 = 0.051 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.02551 = 0.2551 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 8 @ 0.0255 = 0.204 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 41 @ 0.025314 = 1.0379 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.538999 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.470001 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.47 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.47 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4511 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.451001 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.450003 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.450002 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.450001 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.025315 = 0.1266 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 40 @ 0.02589 = 1.0356 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.02589 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.5 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 6 @ 0.0258 = 0.1548 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 4 @ 0.025889 = 0.1036 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 1 @ 0.00866 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 2 @ 0.00865 = 0.0173 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 2 @ 0.109988 = 0.22 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 2.504 = 25.04 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.505 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.0258 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 13 @ 0.0258 = 0.3354 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 10 @ 0.22 = 2.2 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 2.506 = 12.53 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 5 @ 0.0258 = 0.129 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 6 @ 0.0258 = 0.1548 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.528 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.529 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 25 @ 0.0258 = 0.645 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.505 = 5.01 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 46 @ 0.0258 = 1.1868 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 14 @ 0.0258 = 0.3612 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 98 @ 0.0258 = 2.5284 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.0258 = 0.0774 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.529 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 26 @ 0.025889 = 0.6731 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 9 @ 0.0254 = 0.2286 BTC [-]
cole_albon: ;;bc,24hprc
gribble: 125.08
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.225 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: "Could TAT shares just be pegged to 1/100 the price of PT shares? I think theres alot of arbitrage going on between the prices of the two causing extra market volatility ... It just seems illogical that at times 100 TAT shares can cost more than 1 PT share when they only pay 95% of the PT dividend."
ThickAsThieves: oh, the humanity
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 9 @ 0.02579 = 0.2321 BTC [-]
parseval: That would be hell to implement
ThickAsThieves: and totally retarded
parseval: "Sorry, you can only offer your shares up for this price"
ThickAsThieves: why would i peg my price? So i can lose?
Diablo-D3: pegging makes no sense
ThickAsThieves: since when did arb cause volatility?
Diablo-D3: let arb bots do it
Diablo-D3: ThickAsThieves: they dont
Diablo-D3: they reduce it
ThickAsThieves: dude just saw the best price somewhere else but couldnt afford a whole share
Diablo-D3: are you charging a fee for TAT?
ThickAsThieves: 5% of divs
Diablo-D3: you know what you should do?
ThickAsThieves: which is a pittance
Diablo-D3: buy DMC shares and trade for the AM
ThickAsThieves: they are too spensive
Diablo-D3: yeah but you can sell them as TAT shares at whatever price you want
Diablo-D3: eventually the market will meet it
parseval: I saw that, it didn't even come up to a whole BTC for this div, at 9 btc paid out
Diablo-D3: which reminds me, I have another 14 BTC to pay out as div for DMC
parseval: It was like.. .45btc if my math is right
parseval: It's not a bad management fee at all
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 38 @ 2.505 = 95.19 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: unfortunately, many perceive the stock as being worth 5% less overall
ThickAsThieves: when it isn't as simple as that
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.02535 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 49 @ 0.025314 = 1.2404 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 31 @ 0.025314 = 0.7847 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.02531 = 0.0506 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 19 @ 0.02531 = 0.4809 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 70 @ 0.0253 = 1.771 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 18 @ 0.0253 = 0.4554 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.0252 = 0.252 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.02579 BTC [+]
Diablo-D3: lolwhat.
ThickAsThieves: i was referring to TAT.AM, not DMC
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1714 @ 0.00287 = 4.9192 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 2877 @ 0.00288 = 8.2858 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 100 @ 0.02513 = 2.513 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.02513 = 0.2513 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 11 @ 0.02579 = 0.2837 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 27 @ 0.02579 = 0.6963 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 2.525 = 25.25 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 9 @ 0.02579 = 0.2321 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 8 @ 0.02575 = 0.206 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.02579 BTC [-]
cole_albon: ;;bc,24hprc
gribble: 125.12
KRS1: t'sup
fiat500: lol 129
davout: yo
davout: does anyone here have a link to the coinlab/mtgox contract
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 6 @ 0.02579 = 0.1547 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: ;google original contract between Coinlab and MtGox
ThickAsThieves: ;;google original contract between Coinlab and MtGox
gribble: CoinLab Sues MtGox | Bitcoin MagazineBitcoin Magazine: <http://bitcoinmagazine.com/coinlab-sues-mtgox/>; CoinLab sues MtGox : Bitcoin - Reddit: <http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1dl6uz/coinlab_sues_mtgox/>; CoinLab suing MtGox for $75 milliion? - Bitcoin Forum: <https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=193888.60>
ThickAsThieves: it's in the first link
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 3 @ 0.109988 = 0.33 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 1433 @ 0.0007 = 1.0031 BTC [+]
topace: jborkl: you there? send me a pm when you can
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 40 @ 0.0007 = 0.028 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 2427 @ 0.0007 = 1.6989 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 9 @ 0.02565 = 0.2309 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.003 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 9 @ 0.003 = 0.027 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 600 @ 0.003 = 1.8 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 100 @ 0.003 = 0.3 BTC [+]
davout: ThickAsThieves: thank you, googled, but didn't think about a simple CTRL+F on the reddit thread
ThickAsThieves: i havent had my coffee yet, acting like a web-jerk
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 2.3201 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: TAT.AM has reached 2000 issued shares today :)
fiat500: only 3000 to go!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 90 @ 0.02579 = 2.3211 BTC [-]
davout: ThickAsThieves: i'd rather deal with jerks than with morons
ThickAsThieves: technically less than 3000, as I still hold unissued shares
davout: and god knows we have enough idiots
davout: I myself stand on the divinding line, one foot on each side
fiat500: hold on its gonna be a rough ride
fiat500: nobody knows where this whole bitcoin thing is going
Chaaang-Noi: to the moon?
fiat500: that may me both good and bad
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.025649 BTC [-]
Chaaang-Noi: no doubt
Chaaang-Noi: so fiat500 since you killed my jeep dream, what about this one?
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.505001 BTC [-]
Chaaang-Noi: oh are we at 130 already?
ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 6 @ 0.0252 = 0.1512 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: ;;goxlag
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 129.80358, Best ask: 129.86464, Bid-ask spread: 0.06106, Last trade: 129.86464, 24 hour volume: 26104.88100134, 24 hour low: 125.11000, 24 hour high: 129.80358, 24 hour vwap: 127.10958
gribble: MtGox lag is 0.465429 seconds. During this time, light travels 0.000932714504797 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin to the other side of the Earth, along the surface (0.0001339 AU).
ThickAsThieves: ;;nethash
gribble: 92536.5657163
Chaaang-Noi: ;;gribblelag
gribble: Error: "gribblelag" is not a valid command.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.524 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: ;;amhash
gribble: Error: "amhash" is not a valid command.
Chaaang-Noi: 22TH online or so i think
Chaaang-Noi: 129.99 but we haz a wall at 130
Chaaang-Noi: 4000 btc
fiat500: ;;asks 129.99
gribble: There are currently 576.38985 bitcoins offered at or under 129.99 USD, worth 74924.3917777 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0110 seconds
fiat500: oh lawd
Chaaang-Noi: ;;asks 130
gribble: There are currently 4075.2949 bitcoins offered at or under 130.0 USD, worth 529781.88109 USD in total. | Data vintage: 37.7323 seconds
kakobrekla: crazy chart
ThickAsThieves: why cant these speculators be reasonable
ThickAsThieves: like .50 a day
ThickAsThieves: that's plenty :)
fiat500: lmao
fiat500: there are a lot of unhappy buyers with a weighted average buy-in >160
fiat500: i think if we ever get close to that we're gonna see a massive crash again as they dump
ThickAsThieves: bubbles will be the way until we get more people in this game
Scrat: fiat500: nop, these people don't hold any significant amounts
Scrat: a small drop maybe
topace: i still dont get the people that bought from me at 250+
topace: i even told them it was a bad idea
topace: but they insisted i take their money
davout: topace: lol
topace: so i did
Scrat: little jimmy that bought at 230 because he saw it on msnbc didn't really buy a whole lot
fiat500: Scrat: u have numbers on that?
Scrat: fiat500: source: my ass
fiat500: i know people who bought 100+ btc at 160
davout: ouch
ThickAsThieves: i stopped paying new cash at $68
ThickAsThieves: seems i called it about right
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.00305 BTC [+]
davout: i stopped buying at 12EUR
davout: :-)
Scrat: you must be filthy rich davout
JohnGalt: bitcoin will go higher
davout: Scrat: believe me i'm not
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 9 @ 0.02565 = 0.2309 BTC [+]
davout: at current rates i can live comfortably a couple of years on my savings, but in my definition being filthy rich is like "i'll never work ever again, hmmm, which maserati should i get"
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 3 @ 0.00305 = 0.0092 BTC [+]
Scrat: that's like 10 million
Scrat: or 5
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.025749 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BITVPS] 1 @ 0.000857 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 93 @ 0.01019 = 0.9477 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BITVPS] 1 @ 0.000857 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 52 @ 0.025749 = 1.3389 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 10 @ 0.109988 = 1.0999 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.02575 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 20 @ 0.109988 = 2.1998 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 2.3201 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: count them eggs!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 6 @ 0.0257 = 0.1542 BTC [+]
furuknap: I prefer chickens.
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 93 @ 0.025749 = 2.3947 BTC [-]
Chaaang-Noi: in my definition being filthy rich is like "i'll never work ever again, hmmm, which maserati should i get" :)
ThickAsThieves: i prefer cats
furuknap: In my definition, I've never worked a day in my life.
fiat500: cats is goods
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 4 @ 0.02579 = 0.1032 BTC [+]
fiat500: im bored
ThickAsThieves: make something
fiat500: ive done literally everythign i can do aside from day trade
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 4 @ 0.444 = 1.776 BTC [+]
fiat500: already up 50% from last week
ThickAsThieves: make a chan bot that shows nethash, 3-day estimate and fukll stats in one
ThickAsThieves: so i dont have to do this
ThickAsThieves: ;;nethash
gribble: 92536.5657163
ThickAsThieves: ;;estimate
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 12047938.3143 based on data since last change | 12927011.6408 based on data for last three days
ThickAsThieves: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 237698 | Current Difficulty: 1.1187257461360792E7 | Next Difficulty At Block: 237887 | Next Difficulty In: 189 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 1 hour, 46 minutes, and 21 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 12047938.3143 | Estimated Percent Change: 7.6934
fiat500: is there a bot for btct?
fiat500: i mean a pull bot
ThickAsThieves: BF needs a bot
ThickAsThieves: but kako and ukto are still arm wrestling
fiat500: lol
truffles: ] <ThickAsThieves> i prefer cats >>> me2
Chaaang-Noi: bf has a bot it is in #bitfunder
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 11 @ 0.02579 = 0.2837 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: i want it in here
ThickAsThieves: more channel spam!
Chaaang-Noi: spam spam soam!
ThickAsThieves: i also want a BTCTC chan
truffles: who actually joins chat rooms just to chat anyways
ThickAsThieves: cyberers
truffles: a/s/l?
Scrat: 16/f/fl
truffles: haha
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 6 @ 0.00305 = 0.0183 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.00305 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.02579 BTC [+]
parseval: I'd join a btctc channel
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 19 @ 0.02579 = 0.49 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 116 @ 0.02579 = 2.9916 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 79 @ 0.0257 = 2.0303 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.0256 = 0.128 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 30 @ 0.0255 = 0.765 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.02575 = 0.1288 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 1 @ 0.00255 BTC [-]
truffles: sooo many predators out there
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 25 @ 0.02579 = 0.6448 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 23 @ 0.02579 = 0.5932 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.02575 BTC [+]
deadweasel: I'm a bitcoin predator
deadweasel: but I've never seen a bitcoin in the wild soo, i'm not long for this world.
deadweasel: my only regret, is that I have bonitis.
truffles: some of these guys are good looking, i dont get it
deadweasel: it's a confidence matter, low confidence means they go for low-hanging 'fruit'
deadweasel: i go for mediocre hanging fruit.
deadweasel: working my way up to top of the tree fruit.
truffles: me2 : D
deadweasel: although I'm discovering the more confidence I have the less I want a relationship.
truffles: i guess ppl would call it submissive
truffles: oh u wanna be a player?
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.00305 BTC [+]
Chaaang-Noi: ;;asks 130
gribble: There are currently 5263.6063 bitcoins offered at or under 130.0 USD, worth 684109.733092 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0108 seconds
deadweasel: truffles, no way.
Chaaang-Noi: wall go bigger?
deadweasel: ;;bids 128.5
gribble: There are currently 40.736639 bitcoins demanded at or over 128.5 USD, worth 5234.65814677 USD in total. | Data vintage: 35.0680 seconds
truffles: what is it then deadweasel
deadweasel: what is what?
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 3 @ 0.00305 = 0.0092 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.517 BTC [-]
truffles: or did u want to be asexual
deadweasel: no no, just don't want to be with dramatic low-confidence people, it sucks the energy out of me. it's a waste of time. I can't help them and they will only drag me down.
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 38 @ 0.02575 = 0.9785 BTC [+]
truffles: wow lol
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 2 @ 0.02579 = 0.0516 BTC [+]
truffles: well d ont go for the insecure gals ldo
deadweasel: well, it's true.
truffles: imo some guys go for the dumb or insecure girls cuz it makes em feel superior..
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.00305 BTC [+]
Diablo-D3: I go for the smart ones
Chaaang-Noi: just east to get what tehy want quickly
Diablo-D3: I love a smart chick
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 116 @ 0.02579 = 2.9916 BTC [+]
Chaaang-Noi: Great Panther Silver Stock price: $0.78 Market Cap:$108M
Chaaang-Noi: ASICMiner Stock Price: BTC2.5($320) Market Cap:$128M
deadweasel: truffles, they go for dumb/insecure yes, but only because it's easy. The only feeling they get out of it is a blow job.
deadweasel: I don't think superior is the correct word for it.
Chaaang-Noi: sometime a bj is all we want
truffles: simple creatures
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 68 @ 0.02579 = 1.7537 BTC [+]
deadweasel: most of the time, actually. hell, I'll settle for a handy.
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.600031 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.60003 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.6 BTC [-]
deadweasel: i don't always have the energy for sexathons
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 73 @ 0.0007 = 0.0511 BTC [+]
truffles: go workout then
deadweasel: women are simple creatures too. they just want a good rogering.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.516 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 50 @ 0.000725 = 0.0363 BTC [+]
deadweasel: truffles, that is why I don't have the energy. I did 4 hours of intense training last night, my knees barely support me today.
truffles: ure not a young guy eh, rogering lol
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 30 @ 0.00074 = 0.0222 BTC [+]
deadweasel: or I like colorful terms.
truffles: workout less ldo
deadweasel: would you prefer I said "they jsut want their hairy axe wound pounded"?
deadweasel: would that make me young again?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 125 @ 0.025795 = 3.2244 BTC [+]
truffles: lol no
deadweasel: because I'm all for returning to my youth
truffles: who says that lol
deadweasel: I didn't get enough sex in my teens
deadweasel: fucking catholics
truffles: i was lucky to avoid it in my teens also
truffles: sex is overrated
deadweasel: lucky?!?!?!/
deadweasel: yes, overrated.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.025795 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 16 @ 0.02574 = 0.4118 BTC [-]
deadweasel: but it was not in my teens
truffles: stds are out there dude
deadweasel: what's an STD?
truffles: theyre mutating as we speak
deadweasel: i know, I'm more worried about resistant pathogens and genetic disorder being activated my modern chemicals/molecules
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 99 @ 0.00254 = 0.2515 BTC [-]
deadweasel: that and my bitcoins.
truffles: bitcoins are a fad though so no worries there : p
deadweasel: lol, no doubt. as long as I can keep taking my cut, I don't care. it may not be BTC that is the future currecny, but one of it's cousins.
deadweasel: i realize that. nobody can know for sure.
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.02574 = 0.2574 BTC [-]
deadweasel: frankly, I wonder where the development will come from. What if the 'devs' all go to a conference and their bus collapses through the I-5 bridge?
truffles: theyre all on same bus??
deadweasel: sure, the dev bus. they totally have those.
truffles: reminds me of Russian hockey team that all died on plane crash
deadweasel: oh ya, that's was horrible.
deadweasel: Sea of Ostohk had an 8.2 magnitude earthquake, possiblity for tsunami in pacific rim.
truffles: dunno where that is
assbot: [BTCTC] [BITVPS] 2 @ 0.000857 = 0.0017 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 55 @ 0.0254 = 1.397 BTC [-]
deadweasel: well I don't know where you are and I still talk to you. ;P
joecool: deadweasel: it's a deep one though
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 9 @ 0.02531 = 0.2278 BTC [-]
joecool: deadweasel: would not be too concerned
deadweasel: ah, I didn't know joecool
joecool: yeah it's ~610KM under the ground
joecool: the 5.7 in cali was probably more noticable at only 11KM of depth
truffles: deadweasel :)
truffles: no quakes here so it doesnt matter rly
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.517 BTC [+]
joecool: the only one i felt was the one in VA a couple years ago
joecool: it traveled pretty far on the east coast
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.516 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 22 @ 0.025121 = 0.5527 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 83 @ 0.02511 = 2.0841 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 9 @ 0.025105 = 0.2259 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 9 @ 0.025103 = 0.2259 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 11 @ 0.0251 = 0.2761 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.0251 = 0.251 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 68 @ 0.0251 = 1.7068 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 19 @ 0.02555 = 0.4855 BTC [+]
deadweasel: I've only ever been in a 4.2 here in maine last year. I thought tanks were surrounding the building.
deadweasel: they were not
error4733: hello btcworld
error4733: ;;bids 0
error4733: ;asks 11111111111111111
gribble: There are currently 13913764 bitcoins demanded at or over 0.0 USD, worth 19244166.833 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0625 seconds
error4733: ;;asks 111111111111111
gribble: There are currently 103683.56 bitcoins offered at or under 1.11111111111e+14 USD, worth 2.74759003559e+13 USD in total. | Data vintage: 2.6013 seconds
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17600 @ 0.00071354 = 12.5583 BTC [+]
truffles: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 129.05240, Best ask: 129.22000, Bid-ask spread: 0.16760, Last trade: 129.05240, 24 hour volume: 27992.05300410, 24 hour low: 125.11000, 24 hour high: 129.99990, 24 hour vwap: 127.64484
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 20 @ 0.02549 = 0.5098 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 1 @ 0.01139 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 2 @ 0.0114 = 0.0228 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 90 @ 0.0119 = 1.071 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: whats your interpretation?
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 62 @ 0.012 = 0.744 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.02549 = 0.051 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 100 @ 0.01239 = 1.239 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 100 @ 0.01249 = 1.249 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 100 @ 0.01269 = 1.269 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 5 @ 0.0127 = 0.0635 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 100 @ 0.01279 = 1.279 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [RSM] 500 @ 0.0128 = 6.4 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 5 @ 0.0256 = 0.128 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2439 @ 0.00071354 = 1.7403 BTC [+]
truffles: u find 1/4 can of alcohol, do u a) chug or b) throw out
joecool: could have a cigarette hiding in there
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.5123 = 5.0246 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: 20somethings problems
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.5 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.5 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 4 @ 0.29 = 1.16 BTC [+]
error4733: TAT i have no clue :D
error4733: first time i see the 2 line dropping in the same way, i'm confused so i sold half of my btc and bought btc with the money ! make sens no ?
ThickAsThieves: selling half might make sense
ThickAsThieves: but buying btc right after is confusing me
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.02572 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 2 @ 0.017 = 0.034 BTC [+]
error4733: just kidding sorry
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 18 @ 0.01744 = 0.3139 BTC [+]
error4733: ;;asks 1111111111111111111111
gribble: There are currently 103988.02 bitcoins offered at or under 1.11111111111e+21 USD, worth 2.74759004097e+13 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0408 seconds
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 7 @ 0.109988 = 0.7699 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 129.02000, Best ask: 129.49990, Bid-ask spread: 0.47990, Last trade: 129.49990, 24 hour volume: 28129.22128504, 24 hour low: 125.11000, 24 hour high: 129.99990, 24 hour vwap: 127.70212
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 100 @ 0.02572 = 2.572 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 10 @ 0.299994 = 2.9999 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 10 @ 0.322 = 3.22 BTC [+]
Chaaang-Noi: go cog!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2463 @ 0.00071365 = 1.7577 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 2.5 = 7.5 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.4 = 4.8 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.5 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.49 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 4 @ 0.00305 = 0.0122 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 10 @ 0.0031 = 0.031 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 10 @ 0.00315 = 0.0315 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.02572 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.02555 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.02555 BTC [+]
Chaaang-Noi: ;;asks 130
gribble: There are currently 3311.0913 bitcoins offered at or under 130.0 USD, worth 430413.87183 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0120 seconds
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.510999 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 8 @ 0.02555 = 0.2044 BTC [+]
furuknap: Chaang, help me understand Cognitive a bit, if you please...
furuknap: I understand they have stuff on order and favorably so.
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.02549 BTC [-]
furuknap: I know what you've aid about the guy running the operation, and let's assume I trust your judgement on that.
Chaaang-Noi: i like this double wall
WILLdude: Hello
furuknap: What is it about the company in terms of revenue that could cause it to rise in value? It has not yielded any significant dividends so far and even with new equipment, it still would only compete with any other mining operation that gets the same equipment.
Chaaang-Noi: furuknap he is a long time mining op that has fpga and gpus, but is also now doing asics both bfl and avalon, its a good hedge if you hold asic miner
furuknap: I'm not saying it's good or bad, just trying to understand.
Chaaang-Noi: its only good if his bfl and or avalon stuff works out
Chaaang-Noi: if avalon and bfl fail forever then well AM is it...
Chaaang-Noi: but if you hold AM and worry about other asics then its a good option to hold some
furuknap: But let's assume it works out, both of them to be optimistic. What makes this asset different from other assets that also buys BFL and Avalons?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.02572 BTC [+]
Chaaang-Noi: i dont know of, or trust any of the other assets
Chaaang-Noi: but cognitive does have very early orders at bfl
Chaaang-Noi: ;;asks 130
gribble: There are currently 3042.5977 bitcoins offered at or under 130.0 USD, worth 395536.480549 USD in total. | Data vintage: 8.2836 seconds
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.509 BTC [-]
furuknap: Sure, which is an advantage short-term until BFL/Avalon/KnC/Whoever ships en masse.
furuknap: So it's a trust thing, not a fundamental valuation. That's fine, I understand. Thanks for your input :-)
Chaaang-Noi: and by that time we will ahve piles of coin and be able to buy more
Chaaang-Noi: his electric is low and he knows what he is doing
Chaaang-Noi: im not attacking the others
Chaaang-Noi: i just dont want to get fucked over any more...
furuknap: Neither am I, I'm just trying to learn about the assets and what brings people to go in any direction.
Chaaang-Noi: i worked with the guy for over 2 eyars
Chaaang-Noi: thats why i got into asic miner, i knew him from befoerw
Chaaang-Noi: 130 gone????
Chaaang-Noi: fuck me
Chaaang-Noi: ;;asks 130
gribble: There are currently 2329.5675 bitcoins offered at or under 130.0 USD, worth 302843.726974 USD in total. | Data vintage: 5.2856 seconds
Chaaang-Noi: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 130.00001, Best ask: 130.01570, Bid-ask spread: 0.01569, Last trade: 130.00001, 24 hour volume: 32267.69883300, 24 hour low: 125.11000, 24 hour high: 130.01570, 24 hour vwap: 128.04359
Chaaang-Noi: gribble is full of fail
Chaaang-Noi: ticker is over 130 but 2000 share at 130?
furuknap: Clark moody shows trades >130...
Chaaang-Noi: gribble just trollin
furuknap: There should be a ;;slap command.
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.02554 = 0.0511 BTC [+]
WILLdude: I thought there was
WILLdude: ;;slap furuknap
Chaaang-Noi: well fuck me, here we are at 130.. and i thought we would be at 70
WILLdude: ;;slap furuknap
WILLdude: ;;slap furuknap
Chaaang-Noi: ;;slap gribble
WILLdude: ;;slap his genitals
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 100 @ 0.02572 = 2.572 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: fuckin kinds
kakobrekla: !r WILLdude
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.480001 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 8 @ 2.48 = 19.84 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: see that.
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 20 @ 0.02528 = 0.5056 BTC [-]
Chaaang-Noi: 132.15 or so is the next resistance
furuknap: All EMAs still pointing upwards. 132 isn't going to be much of an issue.
fiat500: EMAs by definition cannot predict the future
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 7 @ 0.2439 = 1.7073 BTC [+]
truffles: historical prices dont predict future prices..
Chaaang-Noi: im not sure anything can
Chaaang-Noi: we all kow at any time satoshi could sell 1,000,000 btc at market price
Chaaang-Noi: are that buffet could market buy 100,000,000 $
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 2 @ 2.4749 = 4.9498 BTC [+]
Chaaang-Noi: we hit 132 already
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 9 @ 0.02572 = 0.2315 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 131.74448, Best ask: 131.99999, Bid-ask spread: 0.25551, Last trade: 131.74448, 24 hour volume: 35059.91485832, 24 hour low: 125.11000, 24 hour high: 132.00000, 24 hour vwap: 128.33951
furuknap: A lot of people still trade on EMAs, as do bots. It's no clear prediction, but an indication. The world could end tomorrow, you don't stay away from trading just because of that.
ThickAsThieves: this will fizzle before day's end
ThickAsThieves: we'll be back at 128-129
assbot: [BTCTC] [CRYPTO-TRADE] 3 @ 0.17 = 0.51 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 100 @ 0.0257945 = 2.5795 BTC [+]
Chaaang-Noi: fridays for some reason have been the big days the last few weeks
ThickAsThieves: sure buyt we were at 123 two days ago
ThickAsThieves: speculators gon gpeculate
ThickAsThieves: either way, i'm happy to see an uptrend
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 241 @ 0.02572 = 6.1985 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 14 @ 0.244 = 3.416 BTC [+]
Chaaang-Noi: up is better than down :)
ThickAsThieves: assuming youre holding coins, not cash
Chaaang-Noi: well, i gave up on my rebuy
Chaaang-Noi: im holding some cash as you know
Chaaang-Noi: even though the price is up, there is no depth, selling 1 million usd still gets less than 127 like it was 2 hours ago
Chaaang-Noi: bids are not getting set, its odd
Chaaang-Noi: we broke 132, but hit that resistance
bitesak: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 131.70000, Best ask: 131.75315, Bid-ask spread: 0.05315, Last trade: 131.70000, 24 hour volume: 36093.45621082, 24 hour low: 125.11000, 24 hour high: 132.02274, 24 hour vwap: 128.46488
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 31 @ 0.025401 = 0.7874 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 345 @ 0.02540001 = 8.763 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 14 @ 0.0254 = 0.3556 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 110 @ 0.0254 = 2.794 BTC [-]
bitesak: ;;next
gribble: bullish channel targets/resistances: 128-129 | breakout targets: 132, 140-145, 172 | support: 123-125 | #bitcoin [Fri, 24 May 2013 07:06:51 +0000] | tips: http://bit.ly/YnxUM4 | disclaimer: http://bit.ly/139er6E | this is not investment or trading advice | #bitcoin-analysis | https://twitter.com/BitcoinOracle | updated by OneFixt | 10 hours and 36 seconds ago
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.02545 = 0.0509 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.00315 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.02545 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 3 @ 0.0256 = 0.0768 BTC [+]
bitesak: nice having the log.bitcoin-assets.com
Chaaang-Noi: bids are going down...
bitesak: it is mesmerizing
bitesak: ;;lag
gribble: Error: "lag" is not a valid command.
Chaaang-Noi: jap stock market had a 12% one day fall?
bitesak: ;;goxlag
gribble: MtGox lag is 1.715716 seconds. During this time, light travels 0.00343827565389 AU. You could have sent a bitcoin from Jupiter to its third largest moon, Io (0.002819 AU).
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 9 @ 0.0254 = 0.2286 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 29 @ 0.00315 = 0.0914 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1344 @ 0.00071465 = 0.9605 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.0253 BTC [-]
benkay: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 131.10001, Best ask: 131.38500, Bid-ask spread: 0.28499, Last trade: 131.10001, 24 hour volume: 36769.14352521, 24 hour low: 125.11000, 24 hour high: 132.02274, 24 hour vwap: 128.59918
benkay: goodness.
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 9 @ 0.0253 = 0.2277 BTC [-]
Chaaang-Noi: you guys know rg is alive and well in the #litecoin chan?
Chaaang-Noi: i thought he was long gone
truffles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhiMrEvfvo4 jokes on her, only pays for 1 year
kakobrekla: he is too good for btc Chaaang-Noi
truffles: theres a guy with alias rg that talks a lot in -otc?
deadweasel: i can't fucking do any work today...
truffles: whys that
deadweasel: motivatoni is at a 0
truffles: haha
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 13 @ 0.025649 = 0.3334 BTC [+]
truffles: maybe Esha can recharge ur batteries
Chaaang-Noi: i thought rg scammed or failed with bitvps or whaever
Chaaang-Noi: i dont know the story i guess'
truffles: link above deadweasel
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 2.475 BTC [+]
deadweasel: while i'm not working at the office, I'm also not watching youtube. much easier to pretend work in terminal window
deadweasel: supercaps
deadweasel: can't wait til that goes mainstream
truffles: like 10 years?
deadweasel: dunno.
deadweasel: it means my railgun is not far off.
truffles: still waiting on this invention that protects babies in cars
deadweasel: www.youtube.com/watch?v=y54aLcC3G74
truffles: some rotating pouch ...¨
deadweasel: you know what protects babies in cars? the structural cage and the driver.
deadweasel: car seat just prevents broken babies from seatbelts/bouncing baby brains.
aknap3: deadweasel: you referring to this? http://blog.ted.com/2008/06/24/are_childrens_c/
deadweasel: nope, but I'll watch later, thanks aknap3
truffles: pretty genius invention by liberkowski
truffles: why do u want a rail gun?
deadweasel: i don't know
deadweasel: quake 2
deadweasel: is a big part of it
deadweasel: old desires with no real practicality.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 2.475 BTC [+]
truffles: if it helps with a zombi apocalypse sure
deadweasel: nope, not unless I had 50MW of solar power generation and shit ton of supercaps
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 18 @ 0.025649 = 0.4617 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 10 @ 0.443 = 4.43 BTC [-]
truffles: ive lacked mojo past 5 days also
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 40 @ 0.025649 = 1.026 BTC [+]
truffles: i think im going to have to watch some shark tank to help heh
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.025 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 299 @ 0.025649 = 7.6691 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 17 @ 0.02565 = 0.4361 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.48 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: this is going well...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 9 @ 0.025649 = 0.2308 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 38 @ 0.109988 = 4.1795 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: I'm surprised that bet was allowed
ThickAsThieves: because it's way less cool than my bet
mircea_popescu: lol which ?
ThickAsThieves: Schrödinger's BitBet
ThickAsThieves: This bet will have more total BTC bet on Yes than on No before it closes.
qxzn: lol
qxzn: it's like satoshidice, basically
ThickAsThieves: now that's a bet
mircea_popescu: qxzn something like that
ThickAsThieves: bet like that could have some great earnings potential too
mircea_popescu: sounds more like a dollar auction.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 97 @ 0.02565 = 2.4881 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 2 @ 0.02565 = 0.0513 BTC [+]
deadweasel: it does
deadweasel: you'd make a lot in bets that were sent just past closing too
deadweasel: trying to get in at the last second with a big bet
ThickAsThieves: could end in some tears
mircea_popescu: yeah, too bfl-ish i think
mircea_popescu: this is just a clean cut cointoss
ThickAsThieves: yeah it was rejected a while back, but a man can dream
mircea_popescu: did you zeroconf it ?
ThickAsThieves: what's a zeroconf?
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.46 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: you can send btc in as you make the bet
ThickAsThieves: probly not
ThickAsThieves: but i could
Chaaang-Noi: ;;asks 135
ThickAsThieves: if that's all it takes
deadweasel: sorta seals the deal, makes it more likely to get posted
gribble: There are currently 5841.4468 bitcoins offered at or under 135.0 USD, worth 783226.881293 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0117 seconds
mircea_popescu: why would you.
Scrat: i am in that bitbet
Scrat: ;;bids 0
gribble: There are currently 13833282 bitcoins demanded at or over 0.0 USD, worth 18996948.4385 USD in total. | Data vintage: 21.5454 seconds
mircea_popescu: Scrat which one ?
deadweasel: Scrat, odd or even?
Scrat: small one ofc
Scrat: I won't say!
ThickAsThieves: scrat is a math genie
ThickAsThieves: i bet he sorted that one has higher odds
ThickAsThieves: ;;nethash
gribble: 92508.0370922
ThickAsThieves: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 237723 | Current Difficulty: 1.1187257461360792E7 | Next Difficulty At Block: 237887 | Next Difficulty In: 164 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 23 hours, 42 minutes, and 39 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 12041077.3016 | Estimated Percent Change: 7.63207
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.490997 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2666 @ 0.00071465 = 1.9053 BTC [+]
qxzn: the only thing that interests me about the difficulty bet is arbing it when it strays from 505
qxzn: 50-50
qxzn: does bitbet have any decent kind of api?
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.490997 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: qxzn what specifically ?
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 26 @ 0.025051 = 0.6513 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 70 @ 0.02505 = 1.7535 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: not like you could ensure your bet doesnt set it off balance
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.025016 = 0.075 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.025 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14500 @ 0.00071473 = 10.3636 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3434 @ 0.00071608 = 2.459 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.490998 BTC [+]
qxzn: mircea_popescu I haven't looked closely at bitbet yet, but like getting the current odds and the sizes behind the odds, I suppose.
qxzn: ThickAsThieves really that's not calculatable with published information?
mircea_popescu: i think you'll have to talk to kakobrekla about that.
mircea_popescu: shouldn't be too hard.
mircea_popescu: the depositing part works by design in the sense that once you get an addy you can use it for as long as the bet exists
qxzn: mircea_popescu It's funny, I actually tend not to encourage sites to make apis as I know I can screen-scrape and have less competition :P
kakobrekla: uh i hope you use some html dom instead
kakobrekla: of screen scrape
mircea_popescu: yeah i was gonna say, it's pretty much in the html dom
qxzn: kokbrekla yeah that's what I mean
qxzn: indeed
ThickAsThieves: if i had a site like that I'd fuck with the html daily to mess with botters
ThickAsThieves: i think bitting is bad for relatively small markets
mircea_popescu: i don't see the problem. people setting their own bots to marketmake provides liquidity.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 2.491 = 7.473 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: potentially zerosum liquidity, adn deters humans
ThickAsThieves: everything that is bitcoin, needs more humans
mircea_popescu: why'd deter humans ? recall, this is parimutuel. humans knowing their bets will be covered is encouraging
ThickAsThieves: that is what benefits it most
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.02506 = 0.0501 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 15 @ 0.025 = 0.375 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 8 @ 0.025 = 0.2 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.025 = 0.05 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 7 @ 0.025 = 0.175 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 6 @ 0.025399 = 0.1524 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: because a human will give up fighting a penny bot
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.025 = 0.05 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: and get frustrated
ThickAsThieves: and trade less
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 21 @ 0.109988 = 2.3097 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.0249 = 0.0498 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.02485 = 0.2485 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 42 @ 0.024702 = 1.0375 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: how would a human fight a penny bettor exactly ?
mircea_popescu: the human either has a side or doesn't. if he doesn't he;s not betting anyway.
ThickAsThieves: i'm a heavy trader
qxzn: parimutuel betting is over my head. no wonder mircea_popescu likes it, it's complicated like options.
ThickAsThieves: and it deters me
mircea_popescu: if he does he's glad to hear somebody will cover the odds.
qxzn: mircea_popescu this is a losing argument
ThickAsThieves: it would be hard, but I wish there was a way to study it
ThickAsThieves: on something like BTCTC
qxzn: people "just don't like" bots
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 4 @ 0.0032 = 0.0128 BTC [+]
qxzn: it's not rational
qxzn: except when they are capable of creating their own, of course
mircea_popescu: ok let's go into a little detail.
qxzn: then they like them
mircea_popescu: suppose this bet, with a clear 50-50 odds
mircea_popescu: suppose somebody wants to bet 5 btc
mircea_popescu: if he does and it goes to 18-13 and stays there
mircea_popescu: our guy gets worse than 50-50 odds
mircea_popescu: if he knows a bot will cover to 18-18 then he knows he gets fair odds
mircea_popescu: bots = good news.
ThickAsThieves: i was referring to stock exchanges
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.025 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: not a one-off bet
mircea_popescu: well that's a diff story.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 15 @ 0.02565 = 0.3848 BTC [+]
qxzn: if you are trying to provide liquidity on a stock exchange without a computer, you're going to be frustrated
ThickAsThieves: i mixed it in, apologies
qxzn: but if you are trying to take liquidity, you might be glad there are bots
qxzn: tighter spreads
qxzn: (by "without a computer" i mean "without a bot")
ThickAsThieves: i manage,
ThickAsThieves: but yes it frustrates me
ThickAsThieves: and i imagine it frustrates the newly initiated
ThickAsThieves: which are very valuable to these exchanges
qxzn: eh, I'm skeptical of the valuable of having a bunch of novice traders bouncing around these exchanges
qxzn: the value*
ThickAsThieves: an exchange doesn tcare what kind of experience you have
ThickAsThieves: just your volume
mircea_popescu: <qxzn> eh, I'm skeptical of the valuable of having a bunch of novice traders bouncing around these exchanges <<
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves the exchange does care.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 20 @ 0.0254 = 0.508 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 19 @ 0.02532101 = 0.4811 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: the thing that doesn't care is a bucket shop.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 13 @ 0.025321 = 0.3292 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 30 @ 0.02532 = 0.7596 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 6 @ 0.0251 = 0.1506 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 50 @ 0.025 = 1.25 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 80 @ 0.025 = 2 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 10 @ 0.024751 = 0.2475 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 176 @ 0.02475 = 4.356 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 400 @ 0.0246 = 9.84 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 250 @ 0.02450001 = 6.125 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 200 @ 0.0245 = 4.9 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 150 @ 0.02420002 = 3.63 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 155 @ 0.0242 = 3.751 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 300 @ 0.0242 = 7.26 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 50 @ 0.02410001 = 1.205 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 50 @ 0.0241 = 1.205 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.02404 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 45 @ 0.024 = 1.08 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: can you not picture an envorinment where people say "I dont trade on X, too many f'n bots"
jborkl: I anyone is interested, O.USD.P125N < I will sell these puts starting tomorrow = bot current price * .75 = my price
jborkl: If
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.024703 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.024702 = 0.0494 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.024 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 15 @ 0.024701 = 0.3705 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 51 @ 0.025 = 1.275 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 466 @ 0.024 = 11.184 BTC [-]
topace: !ticker h asicm
assbot: [HAVELOCK:ASICM] 1D: 0.02400000 / 0.02499466 / 0.02600000 (13565 shares, 339.05256733 BTC), 7D: 0.01855000 / 0.02373765 / 0.03000000 (126086 shares, 2992.98474507 BTC), 30D: 0.01290000 / 0.02046073 / 0.03000000 (224770 shares, 4598.95817803 BTC)
qxzn: There are a couple reasons to trade. 1: you are investing. In that case, you don't care about bots. 2: you are arbing/providing liquidity. in that case, you should have bots because it's more efficient in terms of human labor. 3: you are speculating / doing "thinky" fundamentals trading. see case 1.
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 17 @ 0.01744 = 0.2965 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: is there not added risk to using a bot?
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 15 @ 0.01744 = 0.2616 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 1 @ 0.0175 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: couldnt it be left holding the bag on a big move?
ThickAsThieves: it's not my area
mircea_popescu: sure you could
qxzn: well yes, there are some particular cases where you can beat the bot
mircea_popescu: just like the bot that went deeply into the bitbet bet thinking it's 50-50
qxzn: :)
mircea_popescu: but then it's discovered the code is bad and odd is twice as common as even
qxzn: exactly
qxzn: I sorta throw all that into my case #3
qxzn: thinky trading
mircea_popescu: person knowing it's really 2/3 rather than 50-50 could basically take all the bot's liquidity
qxzn: bot writers have to be careful about not having their house completely cleaned out
ThickAsThieves: i imagine stock exchange bots could also be gamed then
qxzn: there are ways to game bots if you are clever, and the bot isn't defensively enough written
ThickAsThieves: like if i wanna find it's lowest ask
ThickAsThieves: i could keep pushing an ask of my own
qxzn: yes, but you won't beat my bots that way :)
ThickAsThieves: maybe i should start a bot-hunting team
ThickAsThieves: lynch all you nerds!
qxzn: please do!
qxzn: make markets more efficient :)
inhies: bot vs bots
inhies: read an article that touched on that
ThickAsThieves: i know Deprived has some experience in that area
inhies: knowing the trading patterns of other bots, when the mean bot saw that the nice bot was gonna start buying, mean bot buys first and then sells to nice bot at a markup
jborkl: I will also be selling O.USD.C170N = Same terms as above. bot price * 0.75 = my price
furuknap: Bot market trading is really just the first step of the battle of man versus machine. Soon, they'll start developing weapons and our bodies will be props in the next Terminator movie.
taub: thehehe
inhies: furuknap: i can only hope :D
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 6 @ 0.024801 = 0.1488 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 510 @ 0.0248 = 12.648 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.0247 = 0.247 BTC [-]
john_connor: Bah...
ThickAsThieves: meant to change to Adama, lol
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 12 @ 0.025 = 0.3 BTC [+]
jborkl: whats up queen Amadala
jborkl: How is your planet
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 13 @ 2.491 = 32.383 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.509999 = 5.02 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 17 @ 0.024602 = 0.4182 BTC [-]
furuknap: Seems Tyfus is taking to his senses on the 100TH thing too. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140366.msg2258584#msg2258584
furuknap: Bah, tytus... That _was_ an honest mistake...
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.0247 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: you seen that ?
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.024602 = 0.0738 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 14 @ 0.024601 = 0.3444 BTC [-]
jborkl: the bitbet on diff. what digit determines the even number?
jborkl: 11 million is 1 and 1, but 21 million is 2 and 1
mircea_popescu: jborkl huh ?
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.50997 BTC [-]
furuknap: The mining asset market is completely bonkers. Absolutely insane. Its investors are equally utterly and undeniably mad. Most likley, that includes me. There, now I said it. Carry on.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5375 @ 0.00071465 = 3.8412 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7730 @ 0.00071354 = 5.5157 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 617 @ 0.00071343 = 0.4402 BTC [-]
deadweasel: truth
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 20 @ 0.025295 = 0.5059 BTC [+]
deadweasel: i've spent more time and money setting up my miners than I'll EVAR get back.
deadweasel: so miners are batshit too.
furuknap: Miners themselves are even more crazy.
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 6 @ 0.025295 = 0.1518 BTC [+]
furuknap: Yeah, and that includes me too :-)
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 18 @ 0.025295 = 0.4553 BTC [+]
deadweasel: i think the whole of BTC are borderline personalities
deadweasel: i love it
deadweasel: i'm home
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 10 @ 0.025295 = 0.253 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 6 @ 0.025295 = 0.1518 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.50997 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: not particularly mad. just very foolish.
furuknap: I would argue mad, and by mad I mean that there is no correlation between numbers and decisions and people seem to not notice in the least.
furuknap: Let me take one example, not very taken out of thin air, and not meant to talk anyone or thing down...
Diablo-D3: one AM share is worth 2.5 BTC?
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 14 @ 0.025298 = 0.3542 BTC [+]
furuknap: PAJKA bonds are nice little animals run by a seemingly honest person that has been chugging along nicely and yielding a reasonable profit.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14078 @ 0.00071086 = 10.0075 BTC [-]
furuknap: However, they are capped now at 3MH/s per share and will forever be capped at 15 MH/s when their new ASICs arrive. Which is fine. It's a fixed rate, people should know what they're buying.
furuknap: Then there's 100TH, which granted isn't delivering yet, but let's just forego that and chalk it up to risk and look at expected revenue. 100TH is fixed at 200MH/s, and if things go according to plan, that will be operational sometime this summer, let's sau August to pick a date.
jurov: ...and while everyone is expertly smelling and analyzing mining turds, never before seen pattern emerges unnoticed: *both* s.mpoe and btcusd go up... causes me goosebumps.
furuknap: You would somehow expect that if PAJKA (or any other bond, really, I'm not picking on them) would be dropping in price to match the value of the share once more powerful bonds like 100TH (or anyone, really and I'm not praising them either) come online.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.49 = 4.98 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.48101 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: personally i dont understand why anyone would buy a fixed-hash mining asset, unless they were trying to short-term speculate to sell
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 2.481 = 7.443 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: at least with AM, you know they will hold a % of the network
furuknap: This is the halving effect I've been touting for the past few weeks in practice. We know that once a more powerful bond comes online, the less powerful bonds will drop in dividends. It's simple math, plus and minus. So why aren't anyone even noticing this?
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.025298 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: furuknap you seem so unaware of the fundamental problems of mining for some reason
ThickAsThieves: AM has commited to a minimum of 10% of the network
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.4801 = 4.9602 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: here's a hint : it is not, overall, a profitable venture on a cash basis approach
furuknap: mp, what would that be.
ThickAsThieves: and more likely will hold 25%
furuknap: Oh, I know that. Mining is an investment in dropping prices. I hate it every time I see BTC go up because I hold some mining
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4711 BTC [-]
furuknap: *...I hold some mining assets
mircea_popescu: there's much more to it than that
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.46 BTC [-]
jborkl: The quality of the mining operator, makes a huge difference. A technically challenged person will have a very hard time- even with good equipment
furuknap: I also know that, I'm a big fan of numbersd, remember? :-) I've run the scenarios so many times I see Excel sheets in the back of my eyelids when I blink.
ThickAsThieves: you must be overcomplicating it
jborkl: A very technically proficient operator with poorer equipment, can still do well. You have to be good though
mircea_popescu: not even!
furuknap: not even what?
mircea_popescu: read that quote.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.46 BTC [-]
furuknap: I've read it previously. I was attending that thread a bit later on.
mircea_popescu: okay. the point remains : buffett's dilemma
mircea_popescu: worse than fx issues, worse than the abundance of scammers,
ThickAsThieves: the quote is great insight, but we don't know WHEN that will happen
mircea_popescu: mining is a commodified market with large excess capacity
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves it happens all the time.
ThickAsThieves: but it could take 2 years for AM to lose dominance
ThickAsThieves: likely less
furuknap: The commoditizaion is why I want to look at profitability in mining companies over the long term, and thus why I sold out of AM earlier.
ThickAsThieves: but can they not stay a leg up for the foreeable future?
mircea_popescu: i am personally convinced that satoshi deliberately created the mining trap
mircea_popescu: as a way to even the playing field (figuring moneyed interest will fall in, independent geeky types will avoid it)
mircea_popescu: it's fascinating to me to see that it's mostly the idnependents falling in it.
mircea_popescu: but this off teh records.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves the problem is not that. the problem is the maintenance cost of that dominance
mircea_popescu: which is not offset by any dominance benefit.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5528 @ 0.00071608 = 3.9585 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: the benefit is that AM both sells textiles AND sewing machines
ThickAsThieves: they can tilt to hardware sales
ThickAsThieves: as appropriate
ThickAsThieves: they already do
ThickAsThieves: no one is shipping, so they will ship
furuknap: mp, I think I also spoke to that no later than today somewhere :-) Look, I think I understand what you mean, and if I do, my analysis follows that suit, albeit with likely different evaluations of risk and hope.
ThickAsThieves: the life of the mining hardware sales market is surely longer than the mining farm efforts
ThickAsThieves: so maybe AM becomes the HP of mining computers
ThickAsThieves: or whichever PC maker example you prefer
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves that's not a benefit
mircea_popescu: the value of the sweing machines is strictly in cutting its textile market
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves that's pretty much the only actual alpha scenario here.
ThickAsThieves: the machines are sold at a premium now
ThickAsThieves: priced right on the line of reasonable ROI
ThickAsThieves: this is better than hashing
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves inasmuch as the machines are sold for more than they're worth, the people buying are making a loss
mircea_popescu: there's a finite loss to be thus funneled into investor pockets.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, it'd have been better to not sell them at all.
mircea_popescu: so not really.
ThickAsThieves: but it protects the operation from other mining farms
ThickAsThieves: they are mining those blade's lifespand in one sale
mircea_popescu: furuknap nothing wriong with that
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 12 @ 0.025298 = 0.3036 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.46 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves taking the burlington example, the only +ev move is if the war comes and they're converting to making ammo and selling it to the brits on us guaranteed credit.
mircea_popescu: so ya, maybe we end up with alien messages and am gets a 1.5bn govt grant to crack it
mircea_popescu: then there's added value to the pool and everyone's happy
mircea_popescu: but on the game as it is, the problem looms.
ThickAsThieves: well, i'll get on the board and warn them
ThickAsThieves: NEVER FORGET BURLINGTON !
furuknap: Meanwhile...
furuknap: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 132.60001, Best ask: 132.70182, Bid-ask spread: 0.10181, Last trade: 132.60001, 24 hour volume: 40837.89188148, 24 hour low: 125.12102, 24 hour high: 133.98000, 24 hour vwap: 129.30293
furuknap: "And to sweeten the deal and get those shares moving I've decided to chuck in my bitcoin advertising earnings from my NSFW monetized Porn blogs as a monthly bonus dividend" <- I mean, c'mon, how can one _not_ take the mining asset market seriously?
furuknap: "Yeah, we'll develop and sell iPads and iPhones and iMacs and stuff, but we'll also throw in the tips we get from stripping at the local joint"
ThickAsThieves: I was considering waiving my mgmt fee for a while
mircea_popescu: wait what ?!
mircea_popescu: link pls
furuknap: The later one was my parody in an Apple shareholder agreement, if that's what surprised you.
mircea_popescu: this shit's pretty good.
furuknap: Yeah, for some definition of 'good'.
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.025398 = 0.127 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.00071899 = 4.242 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13350 @ 0.00071919 = 9.6012 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 44 @ 0.025399 = 1.1176 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.025398 = 0.127 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 6 @ 0.02543 = 0.1526 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6550 @ 0.00071919 = 4.7107 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6056 @ 0.00072037 = 4.3626 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.0255 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 72 @ 0.0255 = 1.836 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 8 @ 0.0255 = 0.204 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 2 @ 2.489 = 4.978 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 2 @ 0.245 = 0.49 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 2 @ 0.10701 = 0.214 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.107 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.107 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.443 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 28 @ 0.025419 = 0.7117 BTC [-]
deadweasel: not a glowing report
deadweasel: but looks fancy
deadweasel: novelty
ThickAsThieves: he resolved his install issue
ThickAsThieves: if thats what you mean
ThickAsThieves: they mine at +10% advertised
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4557 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4556 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4555 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 2.432001 = 24.32 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.432 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.431003 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.431002 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.431001 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 12 @ 2.431 = 29.172 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 2.43 = 7.29 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.61 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.390201 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 7 @ 2.3902 = 16.7314 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 20 @ 0.025419 = 0.5084 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: this arklan dude is some reseller?
kakobrekla: ah i see in topic
fiat500: next stop: BTCUSD $1337
furuknap: ;;ticker
gribble: BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 132.02437, Best ask: 132.37998, Bid-ask spread: 0.35561, Last trade: 132.37999, 24 hour volume: 42001.81799218, 24 hour low: 125.12102, 24 hour high: 133.98000, 24 hour vwap: 129.44076
furuknap: Just remove 2. from best ask and you're virtually there.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu sending you a pm real quick
fiat500: naked pics?
mircea_popescu: ;;google internet story
gribble: Internet Story - Official Video - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-SL4ejpP94>; Internet Story on Vimeo: <http://vimeo.com/13780892>; Internet Story (2010) - IMDb: <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1679215/>
fiat500: lmfao
fiat500: i saw it
fiat500: "<3 mircea"
fiat500: and some eastern european titties
fiat500: fine ones at that
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5944 @ 0.00072037 = 4.2819 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5456 @ 0.00072103 = 3.9339 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.024905 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.024905 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: they're american titties.
fiat500: well, perhaps shot in america, but they are probably from the ukraine
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 2.395 = 14.37 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.390201 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 8 @ 2.3902 = 19.1216 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.352 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.351 = 4.702 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 7 @ 2.35 = 16.45 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.322 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 2.35 = 14.1 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.464999 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 49 @ 0.024905 = 1.2203 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 7 @ 0.024904 = 0.1743 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 11 @ 0.024903 = 0.2739 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 33 @ 0.024901 = 0.8217 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.464999 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.3301 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 11 @ 0.024901 = 0.2739 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.33 = 4.66 BTC [-]
fiat500: interesting, that was 1 purchase of 1PT offset by sale of 100 100PT shares
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.465 BTC [+]
BitHub: AM TANKING
aknap3: woohoo
topace: DUMP DUMP DUMP!
fiat500: really stupid actually
fiat500: if that was the same person
fiat500: his 100PT shares were cheaper, even considering the 5% tribute to TAT
aknap3: If I were to dump, I'd do it on a Tuesday
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.024801 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.0248 = 0.124 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 22 @ 0.024752 = 0.5445 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 80 @ 0.02475 = 1.98 BTC [-]
aknap3: but I don't have any shares right now :)
fiat500: aknap3: why tuesday
ThickAsThieves: prices seem to be generally lower on Fri/Sat
ThickAsThieves: and Higher Mon/Tue
fiat500: interesting
aknap3: fiat500: full of hope for divs
aknap3: hope fetches higher prices than reality
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 12 @ 0.00315 = 0.0378 BTC [-]
aknap3: also why I like calls so much
fiat500: divs are just silly
ThickAsThieves: also, BTC/USD is up
ThickAsThieves: and some want to capitalize
fiat500: i mean, its going to take 6 months worth of divs to make an amount equivalent to what ive made simply due to appreciation
aknap3: that'll cause a temporery dip
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 6 @ 0.024601 = 0.1476 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 31 @ 0.024601 = 0.7626 BTC [-]
aknap3: then when BTC/USD drops, bunch of cheaply gained BTC enters the market and buys wrecklessly
fiat500: so selling before divs is a great idea assuming theres panic buying before
ThickAsThieves: it kind of gets real quite immediately before divs
fiat500: aknap3: thats actually more likely once the ASICS reach mainstream
fiat500: looking forward to it
ThickAsThieves: so you have to time it right
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.463 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: this can all be thrown out the window,
ThickAsThieves: dpending on when friedcat processes xfers to exchanges
fiat500: heh
ThickAsThieves: which are not predictable
aknap3: that's the black swan
furuknap: mp, I hadn't seen that internet story video. Very, very cool, thanks for sharing.
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.0246 BTC [-]
fiat500: lmfao
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 7 @ 0.0245 = 0.1715 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.464999 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 34 @ 0.02442 = 0.8303 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.483999 BTC [+]
fiat500: interesting that all this movement is on BTCT but HI is quiet
fiat500: anyone here trade on havelock?
aknap3: I have an account there. tried it once.
aknap3: TAT seems to like the issuer interface
aknap3: I think the setup for transfering between there and mpex has great potential, actually a model that should be copied
topace: :)
topace: thanks
topace: <-- i run havelock
aknap3: topace: didn't think you were paying attention :)
aknap3: for my own trading, I don't use it because I prefer to play options
topace: i glance here from time to time
topace: :)
aknap3: but I'd be there all the time otherwise -- plus, I'm Canadian
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24016 @ 0.00072103 = 17.3163 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18600 @ 0.0007215 = 13.4199 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13200 @ 0.00072276 = 9.5404 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9950 @ 0.0007231 = 7.1948 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7661 @ 0.00072464 = 5.5515 BTC [+]
topace: hehe well, options might be coming soon (tm) to a havelock investments near you!
aknap3: cool
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 50 @ 0.02515 = 1.2575 BTC [+]
jurov: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 237741 | Current Difficulty: 1.1187257461360792E7 | Next Difficulty At Block: 237887 | Next Difficulty In: 146 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 21 hours, 6 minutes, and 30 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 12044374.8897 | Estimated Percent Change: 7.66155
fiat500: topace: cool, thinking of moving some coins to trade there
furuknap: That's a petty change...
fiat500: good thing i didnt bother with difficulty futures :P
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 100 @ 0.025 = 2.5 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.45 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.02515 = 0.0503 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: ;;estimate
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 12046750.2718 based on data since last change | 12915013.3734 based on data for last three days
furuknap: Fascinating. This has been an announcement about an observation of no relatable quality.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.45 BTC [-]
jurov: ;;next
gribble: targets: 140-145, 160-166, 178-188 | support: 128-130 | #bitcoin [Fri, 24 May 2013 18:24:11 +0000] | tips: http://bit.ly/YnxUM4 | disclaimer: http://bit.ly/139er6E | this is not investment or trading advice | #bitcoin-analysis | https://twitter.com/BitcoinOracle | updated by OneFixt | 2 hours, 32 minutes, and 45 seconds ago
jurov: hohohoooo
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.420002 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.605001 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 2 @ 0.605 = 1.21 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.6 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 2.43 = 7.29 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4779 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.475 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.477994 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 2.477995 = 7.434 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BITVPS] 71 @ 0.000857 = 0.0608 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 28 @ 0.025149 = 0.7042 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: 2000 new shares on BTCTC, lol
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 4 @ 0.025 = 0.1 BTC [-]
aknap3: ouch
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 6 @ 0.025149 = 0.1509 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: that explains the selloff earlier
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 4 @ 0.0247 = 0.0988 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.025 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 35 @ 0.024999 = 0.875 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4745 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.4311 = 4.8622 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.431 BTC [-]
fiat500: ThickAsThieves: aha, and explains the lack of movement elsewhere
fiat500: thanks for pointing it out
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.441 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.431101 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 1 @ 0.5885 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.430001 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.024999 = 0.075 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 50 @ 0.02451 = 1.2255 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 4 @ 0.0245 = 0.098 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 26 @ 0.02442 = 0.6349 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.431 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.43 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.43 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4745 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 2.44 = 7.32 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 106 @ 0.0247 = 2.6182 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 190 @ 0.0244 = 4.636 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 4 @ 0.0243 = 0.0972 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4748 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4749 BTC [+]
parseval: I'm glad that worked for you inhies
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 3 @ 2.5 = 7.5 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 29 @ 0.443 = 12.847 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 2.5001 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.47198 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.471988 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.472 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4749 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 2.599 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.471979 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 1 @ 0.00075 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 2.4749 = 9.8996 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 120 @ 0.0245 = 2.94 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 5 @ 2.475 = 12.375 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.024998 BTC [+]
pgp: question: is there anything preventing the creation of a transaction for 0 BTC, but with a miner fee so that it would pickup up?
pgp: the reason i ask is that all the passthru nonsense seems so cumbersome - seems to me like you could use the block chain to move shares around, no?
furuknap: Colored coins?
fiat500: the passthrough makes it easier to trade on an exchange
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 3 @ 0.335 = 1.005 BTC [+]
pgp: but they're not fungible
pgp: why not imbed them in the blockchain in the comments field - seems to me that it could be done pretty easily so your shares could exist in your wallet and could be moved to where you want
pgp: provided, of course, that every agrees on a format for such a comments
kakobrekla: 23:50.17 ( pgp ) question: is there anything preventing the creation of a transaction for 0 BTC, < yes, with 0.8xx theres a min set... cant have txes smaller than i dont remember howmany satoshi
fiat500: pgp: some of them are fungible
pgp: yes, but you have to push the shares, requires someone to do it for you, etc
fiat500: blockchain is not the most efficient data structure for this kind of stuff
fiat500: when you are distributing dividends etc
jurov: pgp i actually stumbled upon similar txs
jurov: some outputs were 0
pgp: seems to me that you could use the blockchain for lots of stuff besides BTC
pgp: but if there is a min quantity, that's a problem
mircea_popescu: pgp 0tx are nonstandard
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.024799 = 0.0744 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: (meaning they won't get picked up)
fiat500: yeah you could use it to communicate video data if you want but its not an efficient way to do it
pgp: even with a miner fee?
mircea_popescu: as to the blockchain shares, it's called colored coins. it has it's own problems
mircea_popescu: ;;google why i nixed jazz
gribble: Why I nixed p2p, colored coins and all that jazz pe Trilema - Un blog ...: <http://polimedia.us/trilema/2013/why-i-nixed-p2p-colored-coins-and-all-that-jazz/>; Why King County nixed woman's marriage to a corporation in ...: <http://www.kplu.org/post/why-king-county-nixed-woman-s-marriage-corporation-seattle>; The five spot: Where can I see real jazz played in town? | Las Vegas (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: it's not a matter of miner fees. nonstandard tx are not relayed.
jurov: pgp, for sharing big data in blockchain-esqe way, there's freenetproject
pgp: but to decentralize the ledgering of othe assets seems like an intersting application
jurov: ut as it has limited capacity, it forgets unused files
jurov: you did read trilema treatise on the decentralized exchanges?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 2 @ 0.02430001 = 0.0486 BTC [-]
jurov: so i think yes the ownership can and will be tracked by some blockchain mechanism
jurov: but markets will stay centralized
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 56 @ 0.0243 = 1.3608 BTC [-]
pgp: I did not read the trilema article about decentralized exchanges - link?
jurov: [00:05] just below <mircea_popescu> ;;google why i nixed jazz
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 25 @ 0.0243 = 0.6075 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.024272 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 16 @ 0.02400001 = 0.384 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.0026 BTC [-]
pgp: yeah, so what about it?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 107 @ 0.02400001 = 2.568 BTC [-]
pgp: I'm refering to a idea about moving asset custody. For example, why not have a mechnism "like" the blockchain to move ASICM to whatever exchange you want.
pgp: or keep it in you own wallet
fiat500: exchanges have no incentive to implement that
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.47 BTC [-]
pgp: but an issuer would
pgp: public ledger would make divs a breeze
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 25 @ 0.0241 = 0.6025 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 50 @ 0.0242 = 1.21 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 46 @ 0.024799 = 1.1408 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 23 @ 0.0245 = 0.5635 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: it's a bad idea.
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 16 @ 0.0248 = 0.3968 BTC [+]
pgp: are you a bit biased?
furuknap: Problem 0
mircea_popescu: you know this is diosxcussed in the article you apparently don't want to read.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.450001 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 202 @ 0.0245 = 4.949 BTC [+]
pgp: I read it - what are you specifically referring to?
pgp: problem 0?
furuknap: [00:17] <furuknap> Problem 0
mircea_popescu: that i am not biased, but in a perfect position to implement it
mircea_popescu: if it actually were a good idea.
mircea_popescu: it's not.
furuknap: I'll still argue that you're stuck, though, mp. Colored coins in the BTC blockchain may not work, but nothing prevents an alternate chain, tailored to the needs of an asset market, to evolve. Thinking in terms of what is possible or conceivable now is limiting.
furuknap: *from evolving.
mircea_popescu: that's not the objection.
mircea_popescu: the objection is that this thing wouldn't actually add any benefit.
pgp: what is meant by colored coins?
mircea_popescu: creating some special coins which denote ownership of shares.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 6 @ 0.024 = 0.144 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 4 @ 0.0243 = 0.0972 BTC [+]
furuknap: It would add benefit if it could solve problems that an asset market has or will get.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 60 @ 0.0242 = 1.452 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 10 @ 0.0241 = 0.241 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 16 @ 0.02400002 = 0.384 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: furuknap such as ?
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.476999 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.477 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 8 @ 2.477795 = 19.8224 BTC [+]
furuknap: We may not see that right now, but none of us saw in 2008 what problems Bitcoin would solve either. Otherwise, we'd be called Satoshi Nakamoto.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.451 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: no, actually i saw the problems
mircea_popescu: what i didn't see was the solution
mircea_popescu: not even by a long shot.
furuknap: That's one of the things that fascinate me with cryptocurrencies; it allows us to explore (and in altcoin land, test) new ideas for working with values.
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 10 @ 0.35 = 3.5 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: but sure, in general speaking the world is not complete so you never know.
furuknap: OK, so here's one problem that current asset market doesn't solve. Insider trading or what we consider unethical price manipulation, legal or otherwise. I don't have a solution, but a BTC-based or derived system may bring forth ideas that could control or somehow reverse illegal actions, as defined by whatever jurisdiction.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4511 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.451001 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.451 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: reverse ?
mircea_popescu: you want a reversible altchain ?
furuknap: I don't know, that's the point. If I had the solution, I would tell you, honestly :-)
mircea_popescu: well supposedly colored coins are the solution
mircea_popescu: what we're looking for is a conceivable problem they might solve.
furuknap: For instance, again not particularly thought out, bans on shares held by denoted key insiders before or during important events. A deadlock on trades with those shares could reverse the trade (to be declared to the buyer) if breach of whatever happened.
mircea_popescu: you'd never know the insider handles. kinda the point of crypto currency
TomServo: Would it somehow allow a failed exchange to transfer shares to another? Or is that not even an issue?
furuknap: Again, now you're thinking in BTC mode.
assbot: [BTCTC] [BITVPS] 4 @ 0.000857 = 0.0034 BTC [-]
TomServo: Or an owner of assets on a failed exchange, I should say.
mircea_popescu: TomServo well i don't see how it'd do better than what's currently in place atm
mircea_popescu: (see bitvps transfer)
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 7 @ 2.45 = 17.15 BTC [-]
FabianB: not much difference between failed (dead) altcoin and failed exchange
TomServo: I will take a look. Honestly, I don't know much other than it sounds like the glbse closure was a fuckshow.
assbot: [BTCTC] [PAJKA.BOND] 1 @ 0.1071 BTC [+]
qxzn: Has anyone else noticed that BTCTC could easily stand for BTC Trash Can?
mircea_popescu: how charitable
mircea_popescu: TomServo bitvps was transferred off mpex
TomServo: mircea_popescu: I didn't realize bitvps was listed on mpex originally. Why the transfer?
mircea_popescu: list of holder gpg keys encrypted with owner's key publioshed on btctalk
mircea_popescu: unlike the horrorshow of glbse etc emails, this is the actual standard i'd say.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @ 0.00072373 = 2.2436 BTC [-]
BitHub: hey mp do you have mpex upgrade/revampl plans for the next few months posted on your blog i could read about?
mircea_popescu: that's about it.
BitHub: thank you :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6518 @ 0.00072453 = 4.7225 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6301 @ 0.00072464 = 4.566 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6317 @ 0.00072539 = 4.5823 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7914 @ 0.00072567 = 5.743 BTC [+]
BitHub: ahh back from feb, not much changing from that?
jurov: !ticker m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00070412 / 0.00071388 / 0.00072567 (472070 shares, 337.00 BTC), 7D: 0.00065751 / 0.00069026 / 0.00072567 (3441360 shares, 2,375.45 BTC), 30D: 0.00064 / 0.0006983 / 0.00076528 (10796515 shares, 7,539.21 BTC)
qxzn: pgp: "I'm refering to a idea about moving asset custody. For example, why not have a mechnism "like" the blockchain to move ASICM to whatever exchange you want." this sounds a lot like ripple
mircea_popescu: BitHub only been a few months. plans for years.
pgp: ok - so - why are "colored coins" such a bad idea? I am not suggesting any sort of p2p exchange, just ledgering and the ability to trade you shares on differenet exchanges.
BitHub: any new ipo's coming up?
pgp: ripple is flawed
pgp: but their consensus engine does seem interesting
BitHub: just analysing what i should do with the mpoe stock
qxzn: the problem is that shares on one exchange have different value than shares on another exchange
qxzn: mostly because of variance in counterparty risk
BitHub: i would actually like to sign up and use it, something different from BF and btct
mircea_popescu: BitHub yes, actually.
BitHub: but don't think its really suited for me atm
mircea_popescu: pgp for one, you will have the normal confirmation delay. for the other, how do you pay the miners ?
BitHub: cool
mircea_popescu: for the yet another, how do you pay the devs
BitHub: i really miss glbse
pgp: yes, but let's look at how it work for financial markets. I can hold a stock certificate in my name (personal wallet), or I can deposit with my broker and put it in "street" name (broker's wallet and trade it on an exchange - ANY exchange - in the US that would mean 7 major exchanges, but 20 or so dark pools. Every share is identical and fungible.
mircea_popescu: BitHub why ?
pgp: I don't care about delay, just the ability to move it
TomServo: pgp: I think opentransactions might be the thing you're looking for.
mircea_popescu: is that thing still actively tinkered on ?
BitHub: idont know it just exciting when it first was around
mircea_popescu: pgp afaik these days stock certs are mostly digital
mircea_popescu: you can "own" it but in the terms of, some clearance corp saying so and that's all there is.
mircea_popescu: nobody wants to administer the physical stuff anymore, too expensive, forgeries etc
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4749 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.477794 BTC [+]
TomServo: mircea_popescu: you asking if open-transactions is being tinkered on/
mircea_popescu: i recall looking at it early 2012 or so
TomServo: that was pretty recent
TomServo: and compelling
mircea_popescu: even sponsoring it a little.
BitHub: what if exchanges agreed to allow users from one exchange to exchange the same shares with another user on another asset exchange
mircea_popescu: but, it never seemed to go very far for some reason.
mircea_popescu: BitHub htye already do, for pretty much all mpex shares
mircea_popescu: you can trade the pt to the share and back
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.0248 = 0.0744 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 6 @ 0.024997 = 0.15 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 2.55000001 BTC [-]
BitHub: nice
pgp: i see
BitHub: some mpex BF intergration would be sweet
pgp: btw, you most certainly can request a stock certificate at any time - hassle and not common - but people do it for many reasons
BitHub: digital stock cert could be linked to a qr code or something <--n00b at this stuff
pgp: but having some sort of non exchange controlled mechanism to prove, for example, that there are no conterfiet share out there, seems like a worthy goal
mircea_popescu: the mpex dividend actually tests for this
pgp: a public ledger
mircea_popescu: as it won't push out div if the share count is > the declared count
pgp: or anonymous addresses
pgp: blockchain
pgp: or really, an altchain
mircea_popescu: listen, an altchain is not trustworthy in pricniple.
pgp: *of* anonymous addresses
mircea_popescu: it only becomes trustworthy if very much used.
mircea_popescu: tons of mining
mircea_popescu: this fetish people have for blockchains is being exploited atm by all the altchain scams.
mircea_popescu: fact is an altchain is trustworthy just for being an altchain to the same degree that written text can be trusted just for being written on paper.
mircea_popescu: paper will take anything, the blockchain idea will take anything.
BitHub: BF mpex intergration example, i could have an account at bf and mpex and buy shares from bf and transfer it to mpex for a fee, both exchanges share the fee. Now i can trade my sdice shares on mpex, vice versa
BitHub: ahhbitraage
mircea_popescu: BitHub people; actually do this already
mircea_popescu: i dont recall whio's running the hf pt.
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.024997 = 0.05 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 10 @ 0.0244 = 0.244 BTC [+]
BitHub: true? i would love to understand it
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 1 @ 0.36 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [COGNITIVE] 7 @ 0.36 = 2.52 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.024997 = 0.125 BTC [+]
BitHub: ore just see more seamless intergration between btct, mpex, havelock, BF
pgp: ok - so the sort of thing that is possible today is much like ADR and ordinary shares. They are convertible for a fee, they trade on different exchange, and it's a hassle to convert.
pgp: but it the only solution for dealing with DIFFERENT base currencies...
pgp: BTC assets are the same currency, but same hassle? why?
mircea_popescu: because mpex uses strong ownership
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 41 @ 0.0243 = 0.9963 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: (gpg contracts, gpg orders)
mircea_popescu: and everyone else uses weak ownership (no contracts ; fiat ownership)
jurov: i think mp is the wrong person to ask things from... you want to have corporations that issue something like gpg-signed share certificates
jurov: then it will be only a question to get exchanges to recognize them
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.477 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: and so at the interface between hard and soft you will have a gap
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.477795 = 4.9556 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 15 @ 0.02400001 = 0.36 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 7 @ 0.02400001 = 0.168 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: jurov well basically listing on mpex does that exactly.
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 6 @ 0.0032 = 0.0192 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 28 @ 0.0032 = 0.0896 BTC [+]
TomServo: I think open transactions is meant to solve these issues.
jurov: TomServo: is meant to or it actually solves? why friedcat isn't using it, for example?
jurov: if he hates "classic" exchanges
TomServo: jurov: I guess 'is meant to' at this point - it appears incomplete
TomServo: But it sounds promising with evidently having solved the cross server discover issue
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.024997 = 0.05 BTC [+]
jurov: mircea_popescu: there is no possibility for a corporation to have multiple counterparties on the same level as mpex
jurov: it's only possible to have everything on mpex and then passthroughs
mircea_popescu: well, leaving aside that there isn't a 2nd mpex to begin with, having no hierarchy means you'll have to face the byzantine problem
mircea_popescu: which means either blockchain or more genius
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.477795 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 31 @ 0.024997 = 0.7749 BTC [+]
jurov: yes i know, but i'm optimistic it will be solved long term
mircea_popescu: maybe. i'm still not sure why exactly it is a problem.
ThickAsThieves: typing from mobile, but it seems to me you guys are requesting a feature of inter exchange xfer,
ThickAsThieves: but not stating the problem u wanna solve
ThickAsThieves: my guess,
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i been asking that for ~2 hours
mircea_popescu: i guess people are just keen to do stuff
ThickAsThieves: is u wanna arb without the risk of taking a position on all xchanhes
ThickAsThieves: and rhis is just masked bitching
ThickAsThieves: what u dont realize
ThickAsThieves: is if u could do inter xchanfe arb
ThickAsThieves: sobeasily
ThickAsThieves: it wouldn't exist
TomServo: I thought the problem was not having to trust a third party?
mircea_popescu: haha that's a point
jurov: it's also trust. mp seems to think about it as nonissue that mpex is to be the apex trusted with all shares
mircea_popescu: trustless finance is nonsense.
ThickAsThieves: if u dont want risk buy direct
ThickAsThieves: closest u can get
mircea_popescu: im not sure why this is difficult to digest, but finance is fundamentally fiduciary.
ThickAsThieves: but then, no arb 4 u
BitHub: ghey
ThickAsThieves: so the moral is
ThickAsThieves: if u wanna make fukn money on arb, take positions and risk
ThickAsThieves: and make datmoney
mircea_popescu: i don't think at any point in the > 5000 years history of arbing
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.477795 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: anyone involved didn't try to minimize risk
jurov: yes. and then passthrough op vanishes
jurov: like brendio for example
mircea_popescu: thats a good example cause he seemed real trustworthy all through and never had a good reason to disappear
mircea_popescu: unrelatedly, if you've never tried having a girl sit in your lap while you're sitting on one of those large yoga inflatable rubber balls you must do so forthwith
qxzn: < mircea_popescu> trustless finance is nonsense.
qxzn: ^
furuknap: Interesting. There's actually a Devcoin AM PT. https://cryptostocks.com/securities/39
furuknap: Wonder when someone will come up with an LTC AM PT.
mircea_popescu: didn;'t cryptostocks turn scammy or am i confused
Namworld: Brendio didn't really disappear. He eventually showed up after harassing him.
Namworld: He just kind of carried on when GLBSE closed and couldn't bother when GLBSE disclosed the lists.
furuknap: I haven't looked into that exchange at all, but the AM PT just recently launched so either someone is very stupid or very brave if this is a scam site.
mircea_popescu: furuknap it;s old, but there was some issue
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.469999 = 4.94 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: recently i mean
furuknap: The site is trading with a massive 4 full AM shares, though (it's a 1/1000 PT) so I'm not expecting any huge market moves elsewhere.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 7 @ 0.02400009 = 0.168 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: a there it is, not scam, hack-y
furuknap: Ah. The AM PT thread launched May 5 this year, though: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=196217.msg2039800#msg2039800
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 10 @ 0.02400009 = 0.24 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.469999 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: so 6 days before the hack
furuknap: Yup.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 10 @ 2.47 = 24.7 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 12 @ 0.435 = 5.22 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 20 @ 0.02400009 = 0.48 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 173 @ 0.02400009 = 4.152 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.02499 = 0.05 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: hacked twice if i recall
furuknap: I'm... not... entirely sure this is the best promotional video Devcoins could get... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_Axa9_yXF4
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 2 @ 0.02400009 = 0.048 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12135 @ 0.00072567 = 8.806 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 32 @ 0.02400009 = 0.768 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 3 @ 0.02400009 = 0.072 BTC [+]
furuknap: Cool. Of course, if Bitcoins goes to $1M each, then you'd also be famous for being the person that bought a Bentley GT for $375M.
ThickAsThieves: you could say that abiut all the dollars never spent on bitcoin
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 13 @ 0.02400009 = 0.312 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: if i had bought bitcoins instead of lunch a few years ago id be rich!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 20 @ 0.02449999 = 0.49 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 15 @ 0.0249 = 0.3735 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 2.6401 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: lol what
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.4399 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: im gonna advertise there too fukit
furuknap: I'm not joking, but despite having tried, I still don't understand Ripple.
furuknap: As in, I have no idea how the fuck it works.
ThickAsThieves: by design
mircea_popescu: "the same accusations"
mircea_popescu: well... no. not at all.
mircea_popescu: what a fuckwit that guy. "not open" "centralised" vs "ponzi" how are these "the same" ?
ThickAsThieves: thats why tradefortress scammed everyone
ThickAsThieves: using ripple
mircea_popescu: Ripple is led by Jed McCaleb (founder of MtGox, eDonkey) and Chris Larsen (e-loan, Prosper.com), both successful businessmen who do not have an interest in sullying their good name
mircea_popescu: herp. jed is still buthurt over the mtgox thing
mircea_popescu: (and he was the "auditor" in the 1st mtgox heist, incidentally)
ThickAsThieves: yeah and prosper really took off
ThickAsThieves: i wonder who gets more paybacks prosper or btcjam
mircea_popescu: i'd blog about that retard but the problem is the 1% idiots that read trilema and don't understand wtf would probably triple his trafic
ThickAsThieves: i dabbled in prosper years ago
ThickAsThieves: i think i made $20 profit
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.02449999 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [MININGCO.ETF] 1 @ 0.73999 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [MININGCO.ETF] 1 @ 0.74 BTC [+]
Namworld: The thing is, XRP isn't really a currency. It's tokens to make transactions...
Namworld: and they're not really being sold
Namworld: The issue is, Ripple is just plain stupid...
furuknap: Wow. Crypto-trade may actually launch in less than 24 hours. I'd buy shares, but I can't seem to get my jaw back up from the floor.
Namworld: The heck is Crypto-trade?
furuknap: Ever heard trhe term vaporware?
furuknap: They'll shortly be upgrading the wikipedia article to list Crypto-Trade as a typical example.
sikbwoy: vaporware+BFL?
sikbwoy: *vaporware=BFL?
Namworld: All money on Ripple is just IOUs... you have to trust certain issuers... which tends to be exchanges... which trade virtual currencies and fiats...
sikbwoy: lol
furuknap: I still don't get it. I get an IUO from whom and why could that be worth squat to me?
Namworld: So Ripple is kinda superfluous...
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.47 BTC [+]
Namworld: It's worth something if the IOU issuer is an exchange, like BitStamp for example
Namworld: since you can deposit this IOU at that exchange for BTC or USD or whatever
furuknap: So... You run exchange X and I buy an IOU from you to sell it back to you? In other words, a plain, regular loan?
Namworld: You could, for example, trade a Gox 1 BTC IOU on ripple for 130 USD IOUs from BitStamp with another Ripple user.
Namworld: But that's just plain stupid
Namworld: Since all virtual currencies can be just sent directly to that other exchange
Namworld: You could trade one exchange's fiat IOU for another exchange's other fiat IOUs
Namworld: That's not easy...
furuknap: Yeah, because why would I want to do that? I could just trade it for USD or any other currency.
Namworld: What exchange would do that?
furuknap: Nobody, but my friends would buy a BTC from me an pay me in Norwegian kroner.
Namworld: They can't track who traded the fiat and just add it back to an account? AML clusterfuck
ericmuyser: banks work on IOU's. people give loans to eachother. ripple is real life, without the cash in hand
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [VTX] 1 @ 0.4399 BTC [+]
furuknap: I must be utterly stupid...
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.469 BTC [-]
Namworld: Ripple can render fiat transfer easiers, by allowing fiat from Bank/Exchange X to be traded with someone else for fiat from Bank/Exchange Y. Then each can instantly deposit the IOU at that bank.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 2.47 = 9.88 BTC [+]
furuknap: So... I start with 1 BTC. What benefit will Ripple give me that I can't get form just having and using my BTC?
Namworld: But that's a complete money laundering headache
Namworld: Ripple is not a currency. It's not a type of money. It's a platform.
Namworld: To trade various currencies
Namworld: But Ripple itself doesn't hold any money
ericmuyser: furuknap: it's an exchange and it works well to get people OUT of fiat. otherwise nothing?
Namworld: Issuers issue IOUs on Ripple
Namworld: People can trade IOUs from Issuer X for IOUs from other issuers
Namworld: and then cash in those IOUs at the issuing bank/exchange/whatever
furuknap: And you have to trust that issuer. I understand so far. I just don't understand what it gives me as a normal person, having X of currency Y, beyond the ability to change X of Y to Z of W.
Namworld: Because transfering money from one exchange to another can be hard if you want to avoid fees for example.
furuknap: And that's where it all falls apart for me...
Namworld: Suppose you want for example to withdraw USD from Gox to get USD on BTC-e where BTC is cheaper.
furuknap: Why would I want to transfer my money through an exchange? I just want to buy a cup of coffee or tip the stripper...
Namworld: If both were issuing fiat IOUs on Ripple, people could theorically trade those on Ripple
Namworld: Ripple is not made to make purchases
Namworld: It's a platform to move money around
furuknap: Hang on... Is this just an elaborate currency exchange? That's it?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 5 @ 0.02449999 = 0.1225 BTC [+]
Namworld: A currency exchange which skips banks and other things
furuknap: Holy fuck. And we're blowing ourselves over that? Why not just use BTC or LTC or whatever? Geez.
Namworld: Cause people are retarded and use XRPs like a currency
Namworld: When they're meant to be tokens to make the transactions
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 1 @ 0.0032 BTC [+]
ericmuyser: they're tokens yes
ericmuyser: but I think it's in the grand design to use them as payment
ericmuyser: and there's no reason you can't, it just hasn't been built yet
Namworld: What I'm saying
furuknap: So... One more question... If they are tokens, why does it matter that the founders premined and kept XX% themselves? It's like having a gazillion postage stamps that can be used only to send mail but with no other value?
Namworld: wait what? It's in the grand design? Why would people make payments in XRPs?
ericmuyser: it is built to make transactions, but it's currently only an exchange because no one has adopted it, in the same way no one has adopted litecoin - is litecoin a currency?
furuknap: Litecoin has been adopted! I'm a Litecoin fanboi so don't speak badly of my second mistress.
Namworld: XRPs are already being used as a currency, just like litecoins
ericmuyser: Namworld: because at some point they expect people to have a wallet of xrp of course, the same as btc. but they could make payments from their ripple wallet using btc. either way, you're in ripple world
Namworld: I guess XRP could be used as a default currency
ericmuyser: currency for what? it's being converted as a currency on an exchange but not used in transactions
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 2.47 = 7.41 BTC [+]
Namworld: Trade your USD IOUs from Bank of America for XRP, use XRP to buy fiat from some other bank. Redeem fiat at 2nd bank.
ericmuyser: that doesn't make it a currency? it's an asset
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00072783 = 8.2973 BTC [+]
furuknap: Yeah, which is exactly what I'm trying to avoid by using BTC.
ericmuyser: whatever you call it, it's not used in transactions directly but that is the plan
Namworld: Could be used as a cement between various IOUs, since it might be hard to find a trader to trade your IOUs for another specific IOU
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 25 @ 2.47 = 61.75 BTC [+]
furuknap: Well, I'm officially, completely, and utterly underwhelmed. Thanks for the explanations, guys.
Namworld: But again, it's kind of absurd... because it skip every darn anti-money laundering stuff. What kind of institution would start issuing IOUs on Ripple they can't track, and let anyone cash them in?
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 9 @ 0.02499 = 0.2249 BTC [+]
furuknap: I think anyone who issues bearer bonds?
ericmuyser: I heard they intend on allowing more strict IOU configuration but I have no source for that
ericmuyser: but if they dont ya it's pretty crazy
furuknap: But these IOUs are fungible, right?
ericmuyser: furuknap: if an exchange or another person trusts you
ericmuyser: i can go on there and say i have a million dollars or 100 baseball collectors cards, and you can say you trust i have them and what you value them at
mircea_popescu: <Namworld> The issue is, Ripple is just plain stupid... << the more i learn about it the righter this seems
ericmuyser: i would trust my friend has 100 bucks at any point to lend me, so i add him to my trust network
furuknap: Sure, but if I get a $1000 IOU from BofA, I can sell $124 of that without having to get BofA to issue a $124 and a $876 IOU.
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.024997 = 0.05 BTC [+]
ericmuyser: i trust he has the fiat and when i make the exchange he will give it to me IRL
kakobrekla: yeah like banks trusted that ppl will repay their house loans or smth
Namworld: That's not really because it wouldn't be great to easily move fiat around. It's because fiat holders are AML regulated.
Namworld: Plus replacing fiat for Bitcoin or any alternative seems better.
Namworld: Then we can just send that around
Namworld: Painlessly
mircea_popescu: ericmuyser the unsurmontable problem is that ripple trust is blind
furuknap: Exactly. So, for anyone other than currency traders and speculators, I can't really see any benefit to Ripple. It doesn't have value beyond the value of a stamp, it doesn't solve any problems that haven't already been solved, and it's just another headache for users when they want to just pay the damn bill at the restaurant.
mircea_popescu: you trust me.
mircea_popescu: you trust me to THE FUCK WHAT ?
ericmuyser: mircea_popescu: i do not trust you at all.
mircea_popescu: as far as ripple is concerned, you trust me, end of story.
mircea_popescu: whether i make 100 or 100 bn dollars, you've trusted me already
mircea_popescu: irl trust is always to something. i trust you to suck my cock, but not to bake me a pie.
mircea_popescu: so no, ripple is not like real life in any sense.
chad6: any theories for the recent run-up in the price of N
chad6: Btc?
ericmuyser: I would like to see approval requests/convos and whatever else. i trust a friend with 100 but i want to review what i'm trusting him with and for what, if it's a good reason etc.
mircea_popescu: chad6 130ish isn't a runup rly
Namworld: Actually you can trust each issuer for a different amount...
ericmuyser: and i dont want my friend giving away my money to a friend in need
ericmuyser: unless i justify it
mircea_popescu: Namworld but can you enforce that much is how much they make ?
ericmuyser: just like real life
mod6: chad6?
mircea_popescu: the way it works now, he can make 100bn and just give you 10k of that
mircea_popescu: you don't trusty him with 10k out ofg 100 bn. you trust him wioth 10k total.
ericmuyser: mircea_popescu: you're talking about loans and interest?
Namworld: No, the trust level is just how much money they owe you you can tolerate... not the total they issue... sadly
ericmuyser: who cares what he makes
ericmuyser: you give him 10k, you get 10k back
mircea_popescu: Namworld well it sinks the entire thing dunnit.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.47 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: i mean, remember that guy issued like 10k btc of debt to dozens of people didn't know about weach other ?
mircea_popescu: imsaguy was handling the (failed) wind-up a year ago
ericmuyser: that does happen in real life
ericmuyser: it's kind of irrelevant to the system
mircea_popescu: ericmuyser i kind of suspect you're not quite qualified to discuss systems.
Namworld: It depends... basically if you trust someone for let's say 1000 USD, you're saying you trust the person not to abuse the issuing IOU feature AND you're willing to risk up to 1000 USD on your belief, as such if the issuer is abusive, you can lose no more than 1000 USD.
ericmuyser: Namworld: exactly
Namworld: The problem is no one else recognize these IOUs unless they also trust the same guy.
Namworld: Effectively, only large entity will work at all as issuers
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 3 @ 0.55 = 1.65 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: but! you are in effect saying you will take X of this person's issuance with no backing.
ericmuyser: or they trust someone who trusts that guy
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 11 @ 0.024997 = 0.275 BTC [+]
ericmuyser: then that person they trust is the one taking the loan with the other guy
ericmuyser: it sucks
Namworld: You're saying you trust the issuer to not issue more than what they can back, and that you'd be willing to bet up to X on that.
mircea_popescu: right. and you get nothing for this
Namworld: Not that there's no backing... obviously if you're willing to accept X IOUs, it assumes you're also trusting that the issue has backings
mircea_popescu: you're basically providing liquidity, the only sane way this works is if you get a % fee for each guy you trust
ericmuyser: lol you really need to bake fees into it eh
mircea_popescu: if i accept your stuff for 10k btc i expect you to pay me whatever, 2k.
mircea_popescu: ericmuyser yes.
Namworld: Who gets nothing for this?
dub: the credit issuer gets a cut right?
Namworld: credit issuer gets nothing. Unless they charge a fee for creating these IOUs
Namworld: and giving them to you to go trade around
dub: I thought ripple just replaces physical credit cards
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 6 @ 2.47 = 14.82 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: basically there's a reason retards were trusting each other randomly
mircea_popescu: that reason is that you need to get paid. nobody this stupid has any money
mircea_popescu: and so they pay each other wioth their own acceptance
dub: you still rely on at least two 'centralised' parties to transact with anotehr person
mircea_popescu: you trust me for 10k i trust you for 10k nonsense
Namworld: I tried Ripple with the 40k XRP I received for free in one of those giveaways.
Namworld: What I basically did is, trust BitStamp as an issuer for BTC
Namworld: Sell XRP for BitStamp BTC IOUs
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 2.4778 = 9.9112 BTC [+]
Namworld: Send BitStamp their IOUs
dub: thats not trusting ripple
dub: thats speculating with xrps
Namworld: and BitStamp gave me my BTC which I withdrawn
dub: you didnt transact over ripple
Namworld: I said trusting BitStamp for IOUs
Namworld: Not Ripples
Namworld: Normally, I could have traded these IOUs for another issuer's IOUs
dub: no you traded some 'IOUs' for btc
dub: you didnt use ripple at all
ericmuyser: dub: Ripple *is* IOUs
dub: yeah I know
Namworld: I used ripple at the XRP for BTC step
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 4 @ 0.02449999 = 0.098 BTC [+]
ericmuyser: and BitStamp is a single node many people trust to exchange on their behalf, and not die
Namworld: WHich is a trade between two users
ericmuyser: I am a node that no one trusts
Namworld: Just as much as exchange an IOU for another IOU
dub: well not really
ericmuyser: except for BitStamp IOUs and XRP (baked in)
dub: you got btcs because people are stupid and dont understand ripple
dub: you didnt participate in ripple beyond that
Namworld: yeah... but XRP for BTC IOUs trade works the same way as IOU X for IOU Y trade.
Namworld: I effectievly tried the trading system
Namworld: That XRPs are overvalued is not my problem, and if users want to buy them...
mircea_popescu: the worse part is that not only have they no way to specify da fuck exactly you trust,
dub: you tried the trading system in the same way that selling credit cards is using the credit system
dub: which is, not really at all
mircea_popescu: they tokenize this trust. so basically... instead of having properly identified units you just have one "ripple"
mircea_popescu: which is thus useless
Namworld: The "credit cards" appear in the system and are traded the same way as IOUs...
mircea_popescu: same disaster of commons spiral of death as the price for used cars.
mircea_popescu: Arthur Britto, Stefan Thomas, and David Schwartz are major contributors to Ripple's development, and all played an active role in Bitcoin's early successes.
dub: Namworld: so sure, you can buy and sell stolen credit cards right now, its not really using credit cards though
mircea_popescu: who the fuck are these people anyway ?
mircea_popescu: minus thomas, who i recall as a cheeky asshole.
Namworld: I'm saying I effectively used the trading system.
dub: moneypaks is probably better than CC's for this example
Namworld: Not that I sent money in a transaction
Namworld: I used the intercurrency/IOUs trading orderbooks
Namworld: Of course I could also have sent IOUs or XRPs as a payment transaction
dub: I don't think thats what the system is intended for
mircea_popescu: "Even Roger Ver, a.k.a. "Bitcoin Jesus" has to pay his supply chain to keep the Bitcoin Store running, so he can't use Bitcoins either. Roger Ver doesn't accept Bitcoin, he accepts US dollars from BitPay. If even Bitcoin Jesus isn't interested in Bitcoins themselves, then why not let customers use their local currencies from the get-go and take out the Bitcoin middleman?"
mircea_popescu: that's what the system is intended for lmao
dub: well, not publicly :)
Namworld: Which is technically what I did when I sent BitStamp's their IOUs back. It's sending a payment through the send money feature.
mircea_popescu: complete "i fucking don't understand what bitcoin is so here's a cat with a pancake on its head. just as good"
Namworld: Instead of a good being purchased tho, I got funds redeemed, actual BTCs
Namworld: Ripple is a multicurrency trading platform.
dub: its 'sold' as a way to transfer value between two parties, not transfer value to holders of XRPs
Namworld: I know that... doesn't change the fact I used all the damn system and it works the same way...
Namworld: Not my fault if people give so much value to XRPs
dub: its just convenient that its turned into a system to transfer a lot of BTC to its creators
dub: Namworld: agreed, you didnt use ripple though
mircea_popescu: dub ideally people stupid enough to put btc in get releived of the btc
mircea_popescu: it's a burden
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 3 @ 0.02449999 = 0.0735 BTC [+]
Namworld: Why do you insist on the fact I didn't use Ripple, I fuckin damn well used it, trading on the orderbook and sending money.
mircea_popescu: Namworld you're uysing a literal definition, he's using a more metaphorical one
mircea_popescu: so you can continue this debate forever. it's cute.
dub: Namworld: you didnt send money, you traded your ability to send money for some btcs
Namworld: If people valuate XRPs it becomes a currency traded on the system just as much. Technically, XRPs are designed to trade exactly the same as any other issued currency on the system.
Namworld: Also, I sent money when I sent the BTC IOUs in a send money transaction
Namworld: Except instead of paying someone, I send the payment to the issuer which gave me BTC for the IOUs
dub: anyway I think we can agree ripple is retarded
Namworld: The dumbest thing I've seen in a while.
dub: it might have some merit but its been misused and broken
Namworld: I posted on the thread for my free XRP, didn't understand the system, left my XRP there
Namworld: suddenly, people started buying XRPs for a fuckton of BTC
Namworld: I took the time to figure out the system and use it.
Namworld: Not my fault if XRPs is designed to be a currency like any other IOUs, on top of serving as tokens for transactions.
mircea_popescu: dub i don't see the merit. what is it ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2050 @ 0.00072687 = 1.4901 BTC [-]
Namworld: They should just not have allowed trading them and charge like 1 cent per XRP, and use 1 per transaction.
mircea_popescu: i mean, other than getting retards priced out of BTC some playground where they can pretend like they'll matter later.
Namworld: Low cost transactions, they get financed.
Namworld: Well anyway... I got 5 BTC for 40k XRPs... 600 bucks for nothing...
Namworld: except ~1 hour to use the Ripple orderbook to trade XRPs for IOUs and sign up and cashout on BitStamp
mircea_popescu: Namworld not a bad price to push a scam
mircea_popescu: pirate was giving out steaks to suckers.
Namworld: oh, plus making a post when I saw the Ripple thread
Namworld: I'd do it again anytime. 600 USD/hour is decent.
dub: mircea_popescu: I don't really see it in the current system but I'm not ruling out the utility of a !btc transaction system of some form
mircea_popescu: a ok in that sense. yes.
mircea_popescu: very theoretical and not particularly related to ripple.
dub: yes
mircea_popescu: anyway. unless i'm missing something fudnamental (which gets less and less likely as time goes by), ripple is the down syndrome suffering child of some people who really really wanted to matter
mircea_popescu: but didn't know how.
dub: at some point you realise that prolific masturbation doesnt pay the bills
mircea_popescu: i have my doubts this will pay much in the way of bills
mircea_popescu: my bet is that Namworld's 5 btc is coming from the naive investors trying to push it
mircea_popescu: rather than the peanut gallery they're trying to get.
mircea_popescu: and i guess this all calls for a write-up
kakobrekla: could be just one of those scams that doesnt fail.
mircea_popescu: doesn't fail to amuse ?
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.024996 = 0.125 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: paypal is a scam and half of the world uses it
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.024997 = 0.075 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: its a side-scam
dub: meta-scam
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 11 @ 2.4778 = 27.2558 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: theres plenty of those that work
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 17 @ 0.02449999 = 0.4165 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIM] 1 @ 2.650001 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 4 @ 0.0032 = 0.0128 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.024597 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.024596 = 0.0492 BTC [-]
[\]: mircea_popescu: what was I handling a year ago?
mircea_popescu: who was the guy with the debt ?
mircea_popescu: s something
[\]: what debt?
[\]: oh, right
mircea_popescu: something
[\]: I was just keeping track of who was owed what
mircea_popescu: well yes.
[\]: and paying out as funds were made available
[\]: I wasn't a partner or anything
mircea_popescu: the wind-up
mircea_popescu: like a community appointed liquidator or w/e
[\]: all maybe 40 btc of it
[\]: owed like 1k or something
mircea_popescu: i thought it was way over that
mircea_popescu: but most never bothered claiming
[\]: I forget now
[\]: shakaru was the name, you had that right
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.024997 = 0.075 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.4839 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 4 @ 2.483997 = 9.936 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 7 @ 0.024997 = 0.175 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: there, if anyone cares
mircea_popescu: [\\\] finally came to me when i saw your dasehs. magic.
aknap3: thought there was something about ripple trust being transitive, so if you trust someone, you are also trusting their judgment of others, but maybe I misunderstood it
assbot: [BTCTC] [BTC-BOND] 20 @ 0.0101 = 0.202 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 1 @ 0.2449 BTC [-]
aknap3: guess that's pretty much your defect #3
mircea_popescu: it's worse tho, in as you can probably traverse up the tree
mircea_popescu: (start with 100 scam bux, trade for 100 cvasi-scam bux, trade these for 100 not reallt scam bux, cash out 100 bux)
mircea_popescu: tradefortress pretty much proved this is damned easy
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.024997 = 0.125 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: pigeons you want to give that a read say if i've fucked up anything ?
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 5 @ 0.024998 = 0.125 BTC [+]
[\]: you trust pigeons?
[\]: sounds like you should give him some ripples
mircea_popescu: [\\\] he's the only person afaik who seriously looked at the thing
mircea_popescu: besides, he doesn't like me, so.
Namworld: To be fair on point #2, the issuer doesn't get anything either out of the issued IOUs. It's not like it requires you to lend them money. It's more like "pay to the bearer X silver/gold coins" IOUs, like early banks did, before state money.
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 3 @ 0.024997 = 0.075 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.02456 = 0.0491 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.02455 = 0.0491 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 9 @ 0.02455 = 0.221 BTC [-]
Namworld: Where those paper IOUs are practical to go trade around without the need to burden yourself with carrying money all around
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 28 @ 0.0245 = 0.686 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.0245 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 46 @ 0.0245 = 1.127 BTC [-]
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.024145 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.0252 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: what do you mean doesn't get anything ?
mircea_popescu: the fact that his debt is accepted is exactly giving him money.
Namworld: Those IOUs are no different than the balance at the exchange, which if it is showing 200 BTC, it means they owe you 200 BTC. They don't pay interest either on that balance. Same for Ripple IOUs.
mircea_popescu: as far as i know, if your bank is showing 200 dollars in your account
mircea_popescu: that bank is paying interest on the 200
Namworld: The same apply for both thing, and often the trusted issuers are an exchange (at least for now)
Namworld: The difference is you expect the bank to invest your money round and make money on that.
mircea_popescu: i don't care lol.
mircea_popescu: as long as i take debt, ANY debt, i expect a %
mircea_popescu: otherwise no deal.
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 4 @ 0.024998 = 0.1 BTC [+]
dub: presumably the entry/exit points to the network charge for the service?
Namworld: So you wouldn't deposit money in MtGox because they don't pay interest on your balance?
mircea_popescu: Namworld i wouldn't deposit money in mtgox because the mtgox risk requires a premium
mircea_popescu: if they credited my acct with ~300 bux for every 100 deposited i'd consider it.
mircea_popescu: but as it is... never have, never will.
Namworld: Well it's pretty much the same. Bitstamp is an issuer on Ripple. You either have a number on BitStamp or on Ripple of have X of currency Y owed to you by them.
Namworld: So typically people wouldn't expect interest.
mircea_popescu: but! when i accept this, i undertake someone's CP risk
mircea_popescu: this has to be paid for.
mircea_popescu: you can't pass along cp risk w/o fees ?!
mircea_popescu: to rephrase : do you have an inkling of an idea what the 2008 meltdown would have looked like if indeed repo was free ?
assbot: [BTCTC] [BASIC-MINING] 3 @ 0.5505 = 1.6515 BTC [+]
Namworld: Well history shows people are trusting 3rd parties with their funds all the time, expecting nothing in return.
Namworld: Other than being able to request their funds back
mircea_popescu: "people".
[\]: "idiots"
mircea_popescu: the developers stupidly assume this happens because never before have there been on the face of the earth genius developers to make a ripple.
bdk_kluge: They expect gains in terms of service. In the US, interest-bearing demand accounts are practically dead. They pay out in service, usually ~1.5-3% of deposits on overhead.
mircea_popescu: the real reason however is that the system doesn't work
dub: Namworld: example?
mircea_popescu: and will be raped in the mouth just as soon as someone cares to.
Namworld: dub, pretty much every exchange. They won't give you anything for entrusting them your funds
dub: they give you access to a market for one
Namworld: Plus they'll even charge you when you do stuff with your funds on their system
mircea_popescu: anyway, moral of the story here being, "don't start revolutionary financial shit without an actual financial mind available to suckle on the cock of"
Namworld: Well yeah... access to market is the only thing that is given in exchange
dub: its kinda of an important service
dub: its not like you would be handing them money without the intent to use the market
cole_albon: mirce_popescu what do you mean by " system doesn't work"
Namworld: As for #3, I think you got your facts wrong...
bdk_kluge: Though... they charge for that.
mircea_popescu: depends dub, mtgox ?
mircea_popescu: cole_albon i think you hafta read the scrollback.
mircea_popescu: Namworld aha ?
Namworld: I might be mistaken... but I didn't notice any such chain trust effect
[\]: there's a reason why its called ripple
[\]: it implies a chain
cole_albon: the scam bux switcharoo thing?
mircea_popescu: Namworld what do you mean ?!
mircea_popescu: you can't trade your ripples ?
Namworld: One BTC issued by Weexchange.co is different from 1 BTC issued by BitStamp. If you have 1 BTC issued by BitStamp, you can't trade it for someone wanting a Weexchange.co BTC
mircea_popescu: cole_albon no, i meant the naive stone age "free rate repo" system
mircea_popescu: Namworld so then what's a ripple ?
Namworld: Well I didn't notice any kind of mixing...
Namworld: Maybe if I had a more complex trust network...
mircea_popescu: how did the tradefortress guy manage to cause all that havoc
Namworld: He shows that he can have a 1 billion BTC balance by issuing it.
mircea_popescu: but he also traded it
dub: my eyes
Namworld: But no one will accept it if they don't trust tradefortress as an issuer
Namworld: So people must be careful about the issuers they trust? If you decide to trust some random guy for 10000 BTC and take his BTC... of course Ripple will show you have 10000 BTC, but try to trade those with anyone and no one takes them.
dub: right
mircea_popescu: listen, the way i find out what the president of the republic ate
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1620 @ 0.00072783 = 1.1791 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19500 @ 0.00072784 = 14.1929 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: is that his cook knows, and the cook fucks this girl on the side who's owned by this guy who owes me a carrot.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11580 @ 0.00072845 = 8.4355 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: this is how things work. social graphs degrade towards the edge
assbot: [BTCTC] [BITVPS] 15 @ 0.000857 = 0.0129 BTC [-]
dub: this is another one of those Namworld conversations where we wax on for hours about how when one looks up they find the sky and shockingly upon looking down observe the ground
Namworld: That's not how I understand and witnessed Ripple to work.
mircea_popescu: so listen. you got what, 40k ripples. where from ?
Namworld: It works exactly as in this graph, as far as I witnessed: https://ripple.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/how32.png
assbot: [BTCTC] [GSDPT] 4 @ 0.00256 = 0.0102 BTC [+]
Namworld: From the giveaway thread, as I said.
mircea_popescu: from whom ?
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.MPOE-PT] 4 @ 0.000658 = 0.0026 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: a ripple user X shall we say ?
dub: from the ripple teat
Namworld: From Ripple I guess
assbot: [BTCTC] [B.YABMC] 3 @ 0.0151 = 0.0453 BTC [-]
Namworld: Or any sub party assigned with the task of distributing the ripples around
mircea_popescu: and then you took out 5 btc
mircea_popescu: were these 5 btc put in by the user you got your ripples from /
Namworld: I trusted Bitstamp as an issuer. Then traded these XRPs for BitStamp issued BTC IOUs
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.024146 = 0.0483 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: foprget that.
mircea_popescu: user X gave you 40k ripple.
mircea_popescu: user Y deposited 5 btc
mircea_popescu: you got Y's 5 btc in exchange for X's 40k ripple
Namworld: yeah
mircea_popescu: thus there fore wtf you on about. it's exactly how you witnessed it to work
Namworld: But it doesn't work like you said in #3
Namworld: You can't randomly end up with USD issued by your boss's little girl
mircea_popescu: you took Y's lunch in exchange for X's scribbled paper.
mircea_popescu: Y doesn't know who the fuck you are.
mircea_popescu: all he knows is he had 5 btc
mircea_popescu: and where are they.
Namworld: XRP is exclusively issued by Ripple
Namworld: So X's scribbled paper is Ripple
mircea_popescu: dude. where are y's 5 btc
Namworld: In my wallet
mircea_popescu: you don't even know who the fuck y is you have his btc
mircea_popescu: so then how exactly is this diff from the guy in the cab.
Namworld: Yeah
mircea_popescu: "somebody" has his 5 btyc
Namworld: In #3 the guy in the cab realizes suddenly he's holding valueless USD issued by a little girl
Namworld: Which is impossible if he never directly trusted said person as an issuer
mircea_popescu: but he trusted his boss
Namworld: He didn't trust the little girl
mircea_popescu: tghe boss did.
Namworld: There's no chain
Namworld: Issuer's X BTC is not mixable with Issuer's Y BTC
mircea_popescu: if you were able to take out y's 5 btc in exchange for x's 40k ripples
mircea_popescu: it stands to reason so could the little girl.
mircea_popescu: so, little girl takes out 5 btc for her dad's 40k ripples.
mircea_popescu: dad takes 5 btc out of you for 40k ripples
mircea_popescu: you end up with 40k ripples. no 5 btc.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 2 @ 2.483996 = 4.968 BTC [-]
Namworld: That's not how it work... the only way the little girl can take the 5 BTC is if she traded something for it.
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 2.483997 = 7.452 BTC [+]
dub: I think you're talking about different things, Namworld is still talking about some idiot paying 5btc for his ripples while mircea_popescu is talking about how ripple works
Namworld: Either she's holding IOUs accepted by someone else (like Bank of America USD or whatever) and someone wants those IOUs in exchange of the BTC, or someone must trust her directly to issue IOUs
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 2 @ 0.024994 = 0.05 BTC [+]
dub: Namworld didnt extract 5btc from ripple, he extracted 5btc from the idiot via bitstamp
Namworld: Exactly...
Namworld: User uses BitStamp as a gateway. He gives bitstamp 5 BTC, which then gives that person a 5 BTC IOU issued by BitStamp.
dub: no
dub: idiot gives 5btc to YOU, you give him 40k xrp
dub: ripple had nothing to do with it
dub: bitstamp matched the trades
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 1 @ 0.024995 BTC [+]
Namworld: That's what I'm saying, for fuck sake, when did I included ripple in all this?
dub: you were just talking about gateways and IOUs in the last sentance
assbot: [BTCTC] [TAT.ASICMINER] 25 @ 0.024996 = 0.6249 BTC [+]
dub: that is ripplespeak
Namworld: Mr. Idiot gives BitStamp 5 BTC. BitStamp gives the user a 5 BTC on Ripple, issued by BitStamp.
Namworld: I decide to trust BitStamp's IOUs
dub: no you didnt
jborkl: ripple did not create any value, or take any effort to create.therefore in a proof of work/effort concept of monetary supply is worthless
dub: you withdrew in BTC
Namworld: Then I proceed to check the XRP to BitStamp BTC orderbook
Namworld: I see someone is offering 5 BTC BitStamp IOU for 40k XRP
Namworld: I decide to fill the order
Namworld: Ripple executes the trade, I get the guy's IOUs, he gets my XRP
mircea_popescu: Namworld well ok, so then you are copiously unqualified to discuss how ripple works lol
mircea_popescu: your experience is limited to how bitstamp works
Namworld: I then send BitStamp IOUs to BitStamp, including my BitStamp account # in some field
Namworld: Wheres BitStamp redeems their own IOUs
jborkl: why i dont want your IOU for a cheeseburger, thanks anyway
Namworld: How is it limited to how BitStamp works?
jborkl: and ripples are destroyed in each transaction
jborkl: going into a void
jborkl: that defies the laws of physics
kakobrekla: afaik they go to the authors
Namworld: [22:53] <Namworld> I decide to trust BitStamp's IOUs
Namworld: [22:53] <dub> no you didnt
Namworld: [22:53] <dub> you withdrew in BTC
Namworld: What is this nonsense?
Namworld: I can't get BitStamp's IOUs or withdraw anything without trusting BitStamp IOUs
jborkl: I read on their website they just go poof
jborkl: annd do not go anywher
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 129 @ 0.0252 = 3.2508 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: thats strange
cole_albon: my favorite description of ripple as a system of tubes: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=176077.msg1869022#msg1869022
jborkl: conservation of matter mass ftw
jborkl: mass i mean
dub: I think that scene from Dumb and Dumber explains ripple best
cole_albon: … and bitcoin, and usd.
jborkl: the one where he is pissing on his cause it is on fire?
jborkl: leg
dub: jborkl: well, yeah the whole movie is pretty much it
jborkl: lol, or selling the dead parrot to the blind kid?
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 3 @ 2.46 = 7.38 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 317 @ 0.025212 = 7.9922 BTC [+]
Namworld: Guess I'll have to go back to Ripple and mess around, testing
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 50 @ 0.02501 = 1.2505 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 1 @ 0.02450003 BTC [-]
Namworld: Ok, so I have purchased 0.01 BTC from Weexchange BTC orderbook and 0.01 BTC from Bitstamp BTC orderbook. I had 0.02 BTC in my account in balance summary. I then proceeded to place a 1 BTC sale order on the Weexchange BTC orderbook.
Namworld: Only 0.01 BTC shows up on the orderbook, regardless of the account holding 0.02 BTC and the order being for 1 BTC
Namworld: Because I only have 0.01 fucking Weexchange BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 26 @ 0.0242 = 0.6292 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [ASICM] 25 @ 0.0241 = 0.6025 BTC [-]
Namworld: and 0.01 Bitstamp BTC
Namworld: The various issuers' fund are not mixable...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SDICE] 5 @ 0.2439 = 1.2195 BTC [-]
Namworld: and although my balance shows 0.02 BTC, if I go on trust tab...
Namworld: I have an indication of how much I hold of which issuers
Namworld: Each issuer's IOUs are currencies of their own...
Namworld: As far as Ripple is concerned...
Namworld: AAANNNDD mircea is gone
ThickAsThieves: weex ripple is borked atm
ThickAsThieves: im pretty sure
Namworld: How so?
ThickAsThieves: weex is getting overhauled soon
ThickAsThieves: i dunno what aspect is borked but ive seen him discussing
Namworld: Well that's somewhat irrelevant
Namworld: It was just to show an issuer's currency is not mixable with someone's else
ThickAsThieves: just like ripple!
Namworld: Yeah, I guess
cole_albon: I think the speed of ripple transactions makes it superior to bitcoin as a payment system.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8220 @ 0.00072845 = 5.9879 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22650 @ 0.00073088 = 16.5544 BTC [+]
assbot: [BTCTC] [ASICMINER-PT] 1 @ 2.483997 BTC [+]
Namworld: But it's centralized as of now...
assbot: [BTCTC] [S.DICE-PT] 5 @ 0.0032 = 0.016 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: omg I spy an MPEX logo!
dub: Namworld: where was that refuted?
dub: Namworld: its obviously not acutally transfering btc, its just a distributed credit ledger
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