#pest | 2023-05-13

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awt[asciilifeform]: phf, asciilifeform: using a text widget, how did you solve "compartmentalizing" the wrapping text so it stays in its own column? https://imgur.com/7ExihOc

awt[asciilifeform]: Only thing I can think of atm is to have two text boxes horizontally aligned that somehow scroll together.

asciilifeform: awt: not solved at all. ( and the solution, just about inescapably, would have to look like this )

dulapbot: Logged on 2023-01-09 23:08:05 asciilifeform: the usual way to display 'civilized' word-wrapped/selectable/pastable text in wx ftr. dunwork with the 'fast' scrolled window thing tho, cuz creates objects, no longer 'fast'.

bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2023-05-11 20:06:24 asciilifeform[5]: the only thing that even theoretically threatens to work is to do it 'as if it were a port of quake', i.e. explicitly draw & double-buffer, and maintain map of regions for the mouse, etc

asciilifeform: afaik there are no built-in gui widgets on any platform that behave even vaguely correctly for this purpose.

asciilifeform: ( and certainly not such as exposed in wx . can't speak with 100% certainty re tk )

asciilifeform concluded that 'gui toolkit', in the sense traditionally contemplated ( 'text boxes' that work cross-platform, etc ) i.e. anyffin beyond 'get a drawable window on a screen and register kbd/mouse events' is 'a scam'

asciilifeform: ... often enuff can be beaten into 'working', but as sluggish/flickering mess

asciilifeform: ( and the very instance you want sumthing even vaguely nonstandard, yer back to 'pick a frame rate and start drawing things' )

dulapbot: (asciilifeform) 2022-01-04 asciilifeform: neither wx, nor qt, nor gtk, permit any such thing, and asciilifeform's many attempts to kludge it into existence led nowhere.

asciilifeform: it feels rather like trying to build a working diesel engine outta 'lego' blocks.

asciilifeform: in wx, you get a 'scroll window', which passes coordinates of imaginary mega-plane down to component widgets; but the latter, to get sane behaviour, have to 'manually' draw the letters, calculate (somehow) their footprint, draw images on repaint, and reimplement entirely such things as highlighting txt for cut&paste, conte

asciilifeform: xt menus, etc

asciilifeform: ... if one represents the log lines / name box / date box etc. as 'text boxes', on a large screen you can have coupla 100 of'em, and this ends up slooow

asciilifeform: ( aaand they gotta be resized ~sequentially~ , as the amt of txt in nth affects the vertical location of n+1st etc )

asciilifeform: which makes for sloooow and flickery ( and can't manually control the redraw if using os-provided text box widgets, as wxtextctrl does )

asciilifeform: quite possibly many folx historically not even ran into the full extent of the lulbreakage because their display was small.

asciilifeform: nao, ~outside~ of 'cross platform', e.g. crapple actually provides over9000 built-in knobs to actually solve these & other problems ( albeit ~entirely undocumented , yer stuck with ancient examples from shithub ) but asciilifeform not esp. interested in a crapple-only pestron

asciilifeform only sits on crapple when travelling, and not travels much

asciilifeform: ... while on e.g. mswin, life much more resembles x11 , you 'pick a frame rate and start shoveling pixels around' if you want anything other than familiar 1990s microshit gui elements

awt[asciilifeform]: I found a tkinter irc app that pulls it off with a text widget somehow: https://github.com/Akuli/mantaray https://imgur.com/a/9T9CUJG

awt[asciilifeform]: relevant code (possibly): https://github.com/Akuli/mantaray/blob/master/mantaray/views.py#L326

awt[asciilifeform]: Got it working by using the lmargin setting in a tag: https://imgur.com/a/hcek32F

awt[asciilifeform]: *lmargin2

asciilifeform: awt: loox neato. do embedded images work there ?

asciilifeform: ( fwiw asciilifeform did -- if not clear from upstack -- get sumthing quite similar working in wx; but turned out to have problems when have 'over9000 kilometres' of log & tried to scroll it )

awt[asciilifeform]: asciilifeform: iirc you used multiple text widgets rather than one?

phf: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-13#1026029 << i'm not a fan of that style, so i'm not too worried about not supporting it. this http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-01-20#1021420 is the look and feel i'm going for

dulapbot: Logged on 2023-01-20 19:47:46 phf: crtdaydreams, it was a joke at some point, and then it stuck. right before i switched to this ungodly combo it looked like this http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-as-she-sail.png

bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2023-05-13 14:04:11 awt: phf, asciilifeform: using a text widget, how did you solve "compartmentalizing" the wrapping text so it stays in its own column? https://imgur.com/7ExihOc

phf: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-13#1026054 << yes, tk supports embedded images, and, as i recall, with similar padding trick you can make it nicely sized and positioned and such

bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2023-05-13 17:35:59 asciilifeform[4]: awt: loox neato. do embedded images work there ?

asciilifeform: phf: nifty

asciilifeform tried to recall what ~didn't~ work in tk..

asciilifeform: *tries

asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-13#1026057 << can one get timestamps from mouse hover like in the www logotron ? (if so -- a++)

bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2023-05-13 19:18:08 phf[jonsykkel|deedbot|awt]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-13#1026029 << i'm not a fan of that style, so i'm not too worried about not supporting it. this http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2023-01-20#1021420 is the look and feel i'm going for

asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-13#1026056 << correct, multiple (was 1 per log line)

bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2023-05-13 19:05:52 awt: asciilifeform: iirc you used multiple text widgets rather than one?

asciilifeform: 1 problem was, in wx, standard 'wxtextctrl' not supports images (or even hyperlinks! unless they are 'naked html', and such go straight to external browser..) so need 'rich text' thing, which was mega-hog (given as not used native os text renderer)

asciilifeform: ( subj , for the curious entomologist )

asciilifeform: ^ aand then asciilifeform tried it with ~one~ of'em, rather than 'over9000', and was similarly sluggish when loaded with a sizeable faux 'log'

asciilifeform then! then tried 'fuck with the tail and head of it during scrolling to keep ram footprint slow' --> flicker hell

asciilifeform: err, footprint small

asciilifeform: lol

phf: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-13#1026065 << kind of, tooltips are not crossplatform (!!!), so instead you can emulate them using borderless window. it worked… ok. i still couldn't fix all the reliability problems. sometimes it appears, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it stays around too long

bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2023-05-13 22:23:01 asciilifeform[5]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2023-05-13#1026057 << can one get timestamps from mouse hover like in the www logotron ? (if so -- a++)

asciilifeform: unsurprise! given as 'can't do it with those legos'

bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2023-05-13 14:30:31 asciilifeform[4]: ( and the very instance you want sumthing even vaguely nonstandard, yer back to 'pick a frame rate and start drawing things' )

dulapbot: (asciilifeform) 2022-01-04 asciilifeform: neither wx, nor qt, nor gtk, permit any such thing, and asciilifeform's many attempts to kludge it into existence led nowhere.

asciilifeform: for so long as you stick 'religiously' to what the underlying platform (gtk, motif, etc) gives traditionally, yer golden. but step off the reservation, and get soup

phf: asciilifeform, i'm rebuilding, so my pest is pretty much unusable at the moment :> http://glyf.org/screenshots/pest-remake.png

asciilifeform: phf: lulzy, looks 100% like asciilifeform's c++ 'pestron'

asciilifeform: on crapple, exactly same window/tabs!!

asciilifeform: re wx etc, asciilifeform increasingly gets the feeling of 'being angle trisector' when trying to get anyffin approaching sane gui

dulapbot: (trilema) 2017-07-06 erlehmann: http://web.mst.edu/~lmhall/WhatToDoWhenTrisectorComes.pdf

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