auctionbot: S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (69h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/
auctionbot: S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (69h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/
auctionbot: --- end of auction list, 18mn total bids ---
lobbes: diana_coman: just to update before I head to sleep: I'm definitely behind a bit with the logger work, but still progressing. I toiled a bit today because the server wasn't accepting connections via port 6667 (for IRC). Turns out it had a firewall already installed (firewalld), yet even after adding the port I still can't establish an IRC connection from the server
lobbes: So tomorrow morning I need to either dig deeper into understanding firewalls and iptable rules (the latter because from what I gather firewalld is just a interface for iptables), or else I just say 'fuck it' and connect the bot to a znc instance instead (since I can set that up to take connections from whatever port).
lobbes me will look at the above 'either/or' again tomorrow with a fresher mind
whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: Working on the fleetbot pseudo code article ate up the whole day. I finished a reviewed draft but I don't have time for the 1hr+ wait then review, so i will review tomorrow morning and then pbulish.
auctionbot: S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (64h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/
auctionbot: S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (64h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/
auctionbot: --- end of auction list, 18mn total bids ---
diana_coman: lobbes: what's that firewalld? it's first time I hear of it, is that a centos7 thing? ftr on centos6 I always had at most iptables (and at times not even that is really needed, depending on what you want with the machine exactly).
diana_coman: whaack: pbulish ahead!
auctionbot: S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (59h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/
auctionbot: S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (59h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/
auctionbot: --- end of auction list, 18mn total bids ---
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: meant to say: do speak up if there's any way I can help; journalism is not something I know all that much about but if you think it helps to bounce off some ideas or anything, just speak
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Thank you.
auctionbot: S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (54h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/
auctionbot: S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (54h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/
auctionbot: --- end of auction list, 18mn total bids ---
dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-25#1016182 - alive indeed. yesterday paid off some sleep debt incured friday from svg article, but enjoying the mtn climb today.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-25 15:51:21 diana_coman: dorion: you alive under that mountain of writing you set for yourself for this weekend? lolz
dorion indulges impulse to play "country roads" then "rocky mountain high"
diana_coman: ahaha, that's back to 15, lolz
diana_coman: lobbes: you around?
diana_coman: dorion: is that tmsr-os going to cause some more sleep debt today?
dorion: diana_coman I think I have a good handle on it, plus it's not yet 15:00 here.
diana_coman: dorion: while I'm sure that's true, the best answer to that sort of question goes along the lines of "there's still x, y, z to do/at s stage and those should not take more than h hours so that leaves me a buffer of p hours counting from 3pm here to end of day/whatever hour"
lobbes: diana_coman: I am around now. Sorry about that
diana_coman: lobbes: well, you have first to answer MP in #t for quite a few things so maybe do that first anyway
lobbes: diana_coman: will do
lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-26#1016212 << centos7 yeah, and firewalld is apparently a daemon managing firewalls. Though even turning it off doesn't solve the port-being-blocked issue, so I suspect something else is afoot
ericbot: Logged on 2020-01-26 08:42:38 diana_coman: lobbes: what's that firewalld? it's first time I hear of it, is that a centos7 thing? ftr on centos6 I always had at most iptables (and at times not even that is really needed, depending on what you want with the machine exactly).
lobbes: ^^ I had that queued so figured I'd respond now
diana_coman: lobbes: centos 7 already brings in systemd so yeah, expect all sorts; that being said, if it's a virtual machine you have there, iirc on centos there is at times some additional mess with "containers-wtf" so that's another possible addition to your tower of problems.
lobbes: diana_coman: hm okay, yeah that sounds like it could take me some time to figure out
diana_coman: lobbes: you can at least check relatively easily aka simply turn off iptables and firewalld and whatever other firewall you have already and see if that sorts it out at least
diana_coman: but dunno, I'd have thought you were trying to keep things *simple* since even then they are enough of a headache
lobbes: diana_coman: turning off firewalld didn't help things, though I didn't try also turning off iptables. I will try that
diana_coman: lobbes: lolz; listen, this is basic: when you want to figure out the culprit, you *walk the whole chain* until you find the exact place; ie sure, start from whichever end but don't do just one thing and then walk away; so: either you turn off one by one *everything if need be* or you start with everything off and then add them back one by one until you find it.
lobbes: diana_coman: yeah this makes sense. I was doing the haphazard jumping around thing instead of sane reasoning
diana_coman: dunno people, did those jumping arounds *ever* worked for any of you?
diana_coman: lozl
lobbes: sometimes my issue is I don't know the whole chain even, but instead of trying to understand the chain I start doing the 'shamanism'
lobbes: *shamanism thing
lobbes: indeed, never works out
diana_coman: lobbes: it's a huge waste of time really, even if it may feel different
whaack: I would say that jumping around is a skill I've mistakenly been honing my whole life.
diana_coman: whaack: at least it's a ...methodical jumping!
diana_coman: lolz
whaack: It's an art in and of itself, even if completely misguided. How fast can you bang your head and then find another place to bang your head until you've determined where things are in the room?
whaack: exactly lol
diana_coman: gives a whole new meaning to using one's head!
diana_coman: lobbes: was it that they didn't have centos 6 anymore or why 7 anyway?
lobbes: diana_coman: honestly I wasn't sure the difference between 6 and 7; I'd never used either
dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-26#1016223 - thanks. I have the outline done and intro drafted. filling in the remainder of the outline primarily involves gathering the relevant links. I'm aiming to get it done by 18:30 here. then I will take a break for other things from 18:30-20:00 and have 20:00-21:30 as a buffer. aiming to be offline by 21:30 and asleep by 22:00.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-26 15:58:41 diana_coman: dorion: while I'm sure that's true, the best answer to that sort of question goes along the lines of "there's still x, y, z to do/at s stage and those should not take more than h hours so that leaves me a buffer of p hours counting from 3pm here to end of day/whatever hour"
dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-26#1016246 - my favorite hs math teacher had a bullseye on one of his walls with, "bang head here." written on it. lol.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-26 16:35:37 whaack: It's an art in and of itself, even if completely misguided. How fast can you bang your head and then find another place to bang your head until you've determined where things are in the room?
diana_coman: dorion: wait, is that the review & plan you are talking about, right?
diana_coman: outline + intro fine; how is the filling mainly links though?
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-26#1016239 - btw, this is not a problem in itself; if you don't know the whole chain, then you'll discover it by brute force even, if need be, what; sure, ideally you figure out the chain first but if that's a too high step to even start with, then just turn the damn things off ONE BY ONE - you'll still find out more about them that way.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-01-26 16:33:23 lobbes: sometimes my issue is I don't know the whole chain even, but instead of trying to understand the chain I start doing the 'shamanism'
diana_coman: there is the fact that on some things nobody really wants to find out all that much, granted; but that's a consideration for an earlier point in this story.
lobbes: diana_coman: this makes sense
dorion: diana_coman yes, I'm working on the tmsr os review and plan. the outline is fairly comprehensive, full grammatical sentences, so even that there is more to write, I have a good idea of what's to be said. thus, I anticipate most of the time to be consumed digging out the links to reference what's being said.
diana_coman: dorion: hm, all right.
diana_coman: whaack: if you provide a table of contents then do it properly and make those items links to the right place in the text.
diana_coman: don't do things by half, it's ~always a losing strategy.
whaack: diana_coman: Noted, I will fix that right now.
diana_coman: whaack: aaargh, do not do the "we send" "we receive" "we ..."
diana_coman: either own it that you do it or name the code/bot that does it.
whaack: i see the ugliness of that wording. the latter solution makes the most sense to me, the article is supposed to describe what the code does
diana_coman: whaack: how many more lines do you reckon I get to read before I barf again? lolz
jfw: hm, believe I did some of those "we"s in the gbw-node series too
whaack: diana_coman: probably not many, i can see some lines that will likely cause barfing on their own, and since you're already nauseous..
lobbes: diana_coman: oy, so I went to go disable iptables and it turns out it wasn't even running. Apparently firewalld is a replacement for iptables, not an interface for it like I originally thought. Now I really wish I looked into cent os 7 vs 6 before pulling the trigger on this server
lobbes: In any case now I know that with iptables/firewalld off I still cannot connect via port 6667.
diana_coman: whaack: ha! you mean to say that since your previous lines already made it hard for poor subsequent lines to be read...
diana_coman: jfw: iirc your gbw-node series was written more like a walking the reader through the whole thing so possibly the "we" there stood for you-and-reader; it can work in that way if that's indeed how the text is built.
diana_coman: that being said, if you just used it instead to hide behind it then yes, they'll stick out just as annoyingly as whaack's
diana_coman: lobbes: can't they install something else or what's the thing with centos 7?
diana_coman: iirc centos 6 is set to vanish this March so myeah, possibly already gone from standard menu.
lobbes: diana_coman: yeah, I suppose I could get them to install something else, but I'm not even sure that *is* the problem (though probably is if 7 is systemd).
lobbes: Plus, I'd need to wait for them to provision it, etc.
lobbes: I tend to spin on these 'do I trade time already invested for a chance for saved time in the future' dilemmas
diana_coman: lobbes: what are your criteria to decide?
diana_coman: because yes, lacking clear criteria, you'll spin, of course, what *else* could you do.
diana_coman: lobbes: is it a physical machine or a vm?
lobbes: diana_coman: physical (rented dedicated server)
diana_coman: lobbes: at any rate, note that this is not about "can't open port so I'll change OS", lolz
lobbes: sure, I took it as "cent os 6 at least has less chance of towers of strange, plus more republican documentation"
lobbes: but indeed, I lack proper criteria here
lobbes: or at least, it isn't loaded in my head right now which I can see is a problem
diana_coman: whaack: do a proper review and update of that article as really, I can't read it.
whaack: diana_coman: alright
diana_coman: and by review I mean the content too; remember that part with writing something to convey the meaning, not to prove that you actually read it in detail, yes?
diana_coman: lobbes: where /on what did you run this before?
lobbes: diana_coman: all the development was on my other server running classic Gentoo
diana_coman: lobbes: what is classic gentoo anyway?
diana_coman: I have trouble being able to imagine "one" gentoo as such, it's more like shifting sands
jfw: diana_coman: thx for pointing out that distinction on the 'we'; not presently sure where my usage falls but will keep in mind
lobbes: diana_coman: eh just Gentoo (I was trying to distinguish from Cuntoo but.. unneeded)
whaack: diana_coman: yes. as you were commenting on my article I was thinking to myself "well, this is my first time writing an article like this." but it's not, I did a similar article with similar mistakes when I annotated v.py
diana_coman: whaack: so what if it were first time even?
whaack: diana_coman: so nothing. my mind was just racing to find a justification for having err'd
diana_coman: whaack: what's a justification going to do?
diana_coman: (I mean: what *good* is it going to do?)
whaack: diana_coman: nothing, unless the justification reveals a problem that can be fixed
diana_coman: lobbes: well, for all I know, you'll likely run into troubles (different set, sure) with centos 6 as well, mainly because of old versions of everything
diana_coman: so basically you have 3 (or more) sets of problems to choose from
lobbes: diana_coman: ah yeah, I do recall your version troubles with cent os 6 while standing up the logbot (which is the base for this bot anyway)
diana_coman: your criteria should focus on ~which set of problems is the best choice currently given the whole context
lobbes: thank you, I was about to ask how I should go about the criteria making
lobbes: this makes sense
diana_coman: lobbes: does it?
diana_coman: whaack: the search for justification reveals a problem, certainly, lol
lobbes: I think so. So in other words I need to look at each set and figure out which one I'd rather invest my time in
whaack: lmao
lobbes: I suppose I'd do that by finding the set that has the most 'capped' problems (ones that I can see the solution too at least)
diana_coman: lobbes: eh, you're talking pure theory there
lobbes: diana_coman: absolutely :P
lobbes: well, then perhaps I do not understand. How do I evaluate which set of problems is the best choice ?
diana_coman: lobbes: why talk pure theory, how is that going to help you really?
lobbes: diana_coman: I don't have much experience, so most of what I have is theory
diana_coman: I mean sure, I can let you nod at theory and get on with it
diana_coman: lobbes: that above was the theory of a theory though, lolz; you don't have experience, fine, but ask how to do stuff, don't just nod that it's fine so you can then stare at it all some more (except now with a new theory behind the stare, sure)
diana_coman: lobbes: what *are* the existing options anyway, that's where it starts from, practically
lobbes: diana_coman: this is something I do a bit now that you mention it. This nodding along thing. I see what you mean
diana_coman: list the options; list your constraints, priorities, burning fires and coming impalements (or similar); since you don't know much about either of them, you'll probably need then to ask people about the corresponding sets of problems, so you'll do that
diana_coman: and if you don't want to burn, you'll probably at the very least keep people (the relevant people!) informed too
lobbes: diana_coman: okay. I may make this into a mini-article while I'm at it
diana_coman: can't hurt anything for sure
lobbes: that'll also help to keep informed. okay
lobbes: diana_coman: thank you as always
diana_coman: lobbes: you're welcome; and if you keep quiet the whole coming week too, you'll have some additional fire coming after you.
diana_coman: whaack: can the justification-problem be fixed?
lobbes: diana_coman: I can definitely hear the impalements being sharpened in the distance. I'll make sure to speak up
lobbes: I'm going to step away from the terminal for a bit, but will return to get that options list (and review/plan) out tonight
diana_coman: sounds very sensible indeed.
diana_coman: whaack: do search for causes; do not search for justifications.
diana_coman will be back tomorrow.
auctionbot: S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (49h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/
auctionbot: S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (49h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/
auctionbot: --- end of auction list, 18mn total bids ---