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diana_coman: BingoBoingo_: what's going on with your connection that it's so flimsy lately?
whaack: diana_coman: I have a few questions about V. (1) Has the idea of a minimal piece of software for a computer been entertained, where it has just enough to use V to install the rest of its operating system? (2) Ostensibly one could use V to put together the source for an OS and then build out an image and install it on another machine. But should a computer have V installed on ~itself~ when someone uses it to build the source? I buil
whaack: t mpwp by using the V on my local machine and scp'ing the result to my external box. But I'm not sure whether I should have had V on the external machine and built out the source remotely. (3) Afaik right now trb leaves libraries such as openssl to be defined by the machine running trb, in the same way V does with gpg. A future goal is to have the definitions of all the symbols inside of trb be defined within a vpatch in its vtree,
whaack: correct?
diana_coman: whaack: are you at all familiar with cuntoo and its genesis.vpatch?
whaack: diana_coman: I thought there was a vpatch for cuntoo and checked btcbase.org/patches and couldn't find it and then didn't explore further
diana_coman: whaack: trinque took a very elegant approach there, namely he produced a cuntoo bootstrapper that can effectively run entirely offline (if one gets all tarballs in place too) and produces as a result the genesis.vpatch *that matches trinque's sig*; ie he provides only the sig as a way for you to verify that what the script produced on your machine is *the same thing* as he produced.
diana_coman: jfw btw are you familiar with Cuntoo at all and esp ^ ?
whaack: diana_coman: Another slightly related item I was looking for that I couldn't find was an article on trilema about how minigame has to maintain an OS
diana_coman: whaack: re vpatches in general yes, ideally *all* software that runs on my machine would be V-pressed entirely and I could then perhaps sleep better.
diana_coman: but there's still quite a way to go to get there for sure.
diana_coman: whaack: ah, the minigame & OS was triggered by the fact that eulora's client compilation process was in the end still broken by the march of shitgnomes "updating/obsoleting" whatevers; as a response to this, the first attempt was to make a full mirror of some linux distros; I've burnt some time on this but the end result was that's it's effectively insane (huge size that just can't be justified in any possible way, let alone digested ...
diana_coman: ... even in principle)
whaack: haha okay
diana_coman: so that was dropped, not sure that there is a trilema article specifically on it; it might be mentioned (I'd expect) in one of the s.mg reports but not in full gory detail (and sadly at the time I didn't dissect it on my blog either)
whaack: right it is most likely in the s.mg reports because i skimmed through the s.mg category and did not find any obvious title for it
diana_coman: whaack: do you still find "only cryptography" interesting?
whaack: well as you stated, having control of your computer is a necessary step to doing cryptography, and i find that necessary step very interesting as well
diana_coman: whaack: also, trilema titles are quite a bit like... sirens, lol.
whaack: unrelated, the firefox on the tolietbox i'm using has this new feature where they list articles 'you may be interested in' from a company called
whaack: pocket
whaack: some titles: "How To Talk To Kids About Climate Change", "How steak became manly and salads became feminine", "Online, no one knows your poor"
shinohai: whaack: You can turn off that nonsense in `about:config` (or just user startup page, but pretty simple to disable)
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-26 11:11:49 whaack: diana_coman: Another slightly related item I was looking for that I couldn't find was an article on trilema about how minigame has to maintain an OS
diana_coman: whaack: lolz! but you shouldn't tolerate that shit being thrown at you *in your own browser* toilet or not; public toilet means you ban specifically stuff (rather than ban all + admit only selected on human box), certainly not that you tolerate any- and every-thing
whaack: dorion: that was it, ty!
diana_coman: ah, ha; well done dorion !
dorion: de nada; ftr I searched site:trilema.com frozen OS
diana_coman: sometimes it's all about getting the right terms to search for, indeed.
whaack: shinohai: ty btw
diana_coman: funnily enough the very same search was done only recently in #t yielding same result and... still didn't directly pop into memory, such a shame.
ossabot: (trilema) 2019-09-03 mircea_popescu: incidentally re http://trilema.com/2019/so-i-was-thinking/#comment-131257 diana_coman , where's the article detailing the time we attempted to amber linux over it breaking eulora compile process ? is there one even ?
dorion: "It's easy to play any musical instrument: all you have to do is touch the right key at the right time and the instrument will play itself." - J.S. Bach.
diana_coman: dorion: eh, and carving davids out of surrounding marble and so on, sure
diana_coman: wb trinque
trinque: ty! need to fix my autojoin list.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I don't have a bouncer set up yet, and The national telecom administration forces consumer connection to change ip at least once a day. Sometimes twice. I'll try to get a bouncer assembled soon
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: that ip-flickering does rather force one to get a bouncer, huh; weird stuff.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Well they take their rituals seriously here. No fixed IP on consumer service means no fixed IP and they'll make it clear with the daily cycling.
BingoBoingo: When the hot basement closet appeared to work as a data center, this could be easily mitigated.
diana_coman: certainly; no worries.
BingoBoingo: The actual change takes less than a second. A whole bunch of shit protocols are completely without visible interuption. Just the good stuff gets a bit inconvenient
trinque: heh, do they also turn off city power when it's sleepytime?
BingoBoingo: trinque: Nah, I've seen power maybe blink three times aside from the time Argentina fucked up the regional grid. The power company however offers a number of plans which incentivize certain consumption patterns
BingoBoingo: Far better stability in the local power grid than I have ever seen in a period of similar length living in the middle west
BingoBoingo: The quality of the power grid outside of the outer poverty barrios where folks just tap into lines as they want to, this is an asset to Uruguay.
BingoBoingo: In the US maybe Texas's grid alone can rival Uruguay's.
BingoBoingo unfamiliar with the Texas grid beyond knowing its its own thing
trinque: summer sometimes causes problems when it's e.g. ~100-110F
trinque: by and large works fine; we've got a few nuclear reactors too
BingoBoingo: This country could use one. They've even had plans but... stalled indefinitely
BingoBoingo: South America though is hydro country
jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-26#1007505 - sadly I have not studied cuntoo as such. I'm familiar with the reproducibility concept; was seen earlier in the 'rotor' TRB build, which is a mini-Linux-distro of its own right, 'buildroot'
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-26 11:11:15 diana_coman: jfw btw are you familiar with Cuntoo at all and esp ^ ?
jfw: Seeing the cuntoo bootstrap tarball is back from the pizmess, I'll download for future study.
jfw: diana_coman: otherwise, I have some sins to confess... I didn't get to where I wanted with the writing yesterday; asking myself why, I found I hadn't spent much dedicated time on it, but was unsure where the rest of the time had gone. Reflecting further, I had spent time on a bunch of things which indeed had to be done, but at least some of which didn't have to be done *right then*, and I hadn't
jfw: planned any sort of limit on these as you illustrated with your blog theming discussion. I'm sure I'm not alone in having an ~inexhaustible list of these, and suppose there was an aspect of avoidance in it. Also I could have reported this last night, but didn't, which seems to contradict my commitment to more communication and left me with however much more to dig out of this morning.
jfw: Another thing that happened while 'thinking about the writing', yesterday as well as Wednesday, was various subtrees of my larger problem coming into focus. And I've been writing them down, so I guess I shouldn't think of that as a waste; not sure where the line is on mulling vs. spinning really
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-16 00:31:29 jfw: But the principle failure, I think, beyond any particular bad decision, was in not reaching out to people who could have helped make better decisions.
jfw: For example, I'd been undervaluing my own time when it came to otherwise interesting things (also known as the "ooh, shiny!" problem); also, by not having been writing all along, there's a lot of missing context in the blog setup story - I did X because I had Y, because I'd earlier chosen to Z and so on until the article no longer fits in head
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-26#1007554 - emphasis on *future*, all right? don't "oh, shiny" on it now.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-26 16:27:04 jfw: Seeing the cuntoo bootstrap tarball is back from the pizmess, I'll download for future study.
diana_coman: jfw: did you *plan* any time specifically for the writing ?
jfw: What would that mean exactly - number of hours, specific start/end times? I guess I didn't really
diana_coman: jfw: at least some time in your schedule set aside for this task
diana_coman: it is true that *some* thinking can and will go on in the background so it doesn't need nor benefit from separate time but the writing - esp. when you lack experience and positively avoid it - still takes time of its own.
diana_coman: jfw: what did you go about it anyway?
jfw: ack re above, I think i'll need to schedule it in more detail. "what did you go about it anyway" - not parsing there?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-26 16:34:49 jfw: planned any sort of limit on these as you illustrated with your blog theming discussion. I'm sure I'm not alone in having an ~inexhaustible list of these, and suppose there was an aspect of avoidance in it. Also I could have reported this last night, but didn't, which seems to contradict my commitment to more communication and left me with however much more to dig out of this morning.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-25 15:43:59 diana_coman: jfw: how's your writing going?
diana_coman: jfw: so you found out on Tuesday evening you have to write this post by Sunday evening; ok, what happened next (relevant to this, obviously)?
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-26#1007568 - my typo there: what did you do about it (alternatively: how did you go about it); but see ^ , it's the same question.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-26 17:20:09 jfw: ack re above, I think i'll need to schedule it in more detail. "what did you go about it anyway" - not parsing there?
jfw: Wednesday I did varous smaller tasks, but neglected to track time or come up with a schedule. Wrote the thoughts that came up about the writing. Next free time was Thursday night, where I worked on outlining
jfw: So, I guess I didn't really have anything solid to go on when I told you I thought the writing was going alright :(
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-26#1007558 - at least the thinking + focus + writing down is certainly not bad, no; re mulling vs spinning ahem, it depends on what exactly you do there, we'll revisit.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-26 16:55:56 jfw: Another thing that happened while 'thinking about the writing', yesterday as well as Wednesday, was various subtrees of my larger problem coming into focus. And I've been writing them down, so I guess I shouldn't think of that as a waste; not sure where the line is on mulling vs. spinning really
diana_coman: jfw: before that, it would also seem you didn't have anything solid to go on when you said you will do it by Sunday.
diana_coman: jfw: what do you have now, an outline or what?
diana_coman: jfw: say something.
jfw: A partial outline, and extracts of earlier notes/chats documenting what I did
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-26#1007554 << btw, new mirror for the pre-cuntoo item : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/dulap-r2.tar.gz . ( i have a new bootable version also, that abolishes need for the ancient plain gentoo usb stick, but needs moar test )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-26 19:22:45 jfw: Seeing the cuntoo bootstrap tarball is back from the pizmess, I'll download for future study.
diana_coman: jfw: why so slow in answering anyway, it's not like I asked you complicated questions, is it?
jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-26#1007579 - I can't deny; I did not have an estimate of how many hours the different parts would take, or much to go on to come up with one
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-26 17:28:39 diana_coman: jfw: before that, it would also seem you didn't have anything solid to go on when you said you will do it by Sunday.
jfw: diana_coman: I was checking on what I had, which... perhaps I didn't need to
diana_coman: jfw: you know, start valuing your time more, there's not even a single second of it that you'll ever get back
diana_coman: jfw: heh, really? you didn't know all of a sudden what you had?
jfw: I... guess I didn't like it, had to see directly
diana_coman: jfw: mk; you finish that outline and publish it (or whatever sad-unfinished-outline you have by Sunday evening) + the relevant notes or whatever else you got sidetracked into; if you get sidetracked even more, you publish still tomorrow that too, whatever it is, all in one post.
jfw: Yes Master.
jfw: My blog or younghands for that?
diana_coman: jfw: that goes on your blog
diana_coman: jfw: on younghands you'll still have to do the plan for next week but really do set aside in your own schedule time for each of the things (and even for your own otherwise, wtf, time is not some infinite resource); so far I'll still consider it's not absolutely necessary for you to publish that too but if you insist, it will become.
jfw: Yes but not recently.
diana_coman: apparently you're due a re-read of it.
jfw: I expect so.
diana_coman: jfw: have you always worked like this time-irrespective or is this just for writing/not-sexy work?
jfw: Not sure if 'always' - e.g. in school, a rigorous planned schedule was essential - but I would say lately the discipline has been lacking.
jfw: Last couple months dorion and I have been trying to improve on that, writing weekly plans, which has been helpful but I at least am not where I need to be yet, clearly.
jfw: (Have I missed something in the question? Got a feeling I might be.)
diana_coman: jfw: basically school was last time when you really had too little time to indulge in wasting it.
diana_coman: jfw: you clearly answered the time-irrespective part, kind of side-stepped on the writing/not-sexy work.
jfw: On the IT job time was also scarce for sure - there was an issue tracker, regular check-in with team members and management that provided structure.
diana_coman: were you always on time (and without last minute mad rush) there?
diana_coman: now I hope you don't go to... check, lol.
jfw: I recall the work being pretty independent - as long as things kept getting done, they'd stay happy; there weren't many specific deadlines.
jfw: Mad rushes would happen in response to crises like provider outages.
diana_coman: jfw: you do understand though that it's your time first and foremost at stake here, yes?
diana_coman: crises are a different thing, not relevant here.
diana_coman: because you know, I can let you slide and take a whole month on one post; at that rate possibly we'll get to have a look at your software sometime before I die of old age or something.
jfw: My understanding was that failing deadlines makes one hard for other people to work with; perhaps I haven't fully connected how it affects my own time
jfw: certainly that image helps.
diana_coman: jfw: that is one side of it for sure and yes, it's the one mainly covered in http://ossasepia.com/2018/02/06/its-only-words-and-assumptions-and-priorities-and-ouch/
diana_coman: but there is also the waste of your own time for sure.
diana_coman: and now I realise you might all think I'm anyway 90 or something, lolz.
diana_coman: jfw: all right; clear and fine for this Sunday?
jfw: yes, I will publish review/plan and however far I get on the article.
diana_coman: jfw: review != plan so hm, what are you publishing there?
jfw: the review of week and plan of next week on young hands is what I meant there
jfw: did I hallucinate the 'review' part of that? lol
diana_coman: jfw: all right; and don't spin/mull internally only, better come and speak up in here, yes?
jfw: Will do.
diana_coman: jfw: no, it exists, just that it's usually a separate post and so more like review & plan; your / there raised an eyebrow.
diana_coman: good then.
lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-21#1007023 << Just realized I missed this question. Well, in our PM convo at the end of September I decided to pause my current study in diana_coman's school so as to gain an understanding of what, specifically, I would wish to gain from it. In my head I had lumped the penance posts under this set of study, though perhaps this was a misclassification
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-21 13:57:58 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-14#1002548 - lobbes, what ever happened to/with this?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-14 15:05:59 lobbes: diana_coman: interesting. I will do this, ty
lobbes: In any case, I do think I will make those posts once I finish and deploy mp's bot. I think this also has the benefit of allowing more time to pass for reflection
whaack: diana_coman: I was just invited to go to Nicaragua next week from Thursday-Monday for a friend's birthday. (The same friend I was considering living with before) It looks like a++ fun, but it is quite a few days to give up. I am asking both for permission to go and guidance as to whether or not I should go.
BingoBoingo: whaack: Have you been to Nicaragua before?
whaack: BingoBoingo: Yes I have, in the southern part. This was a few months after they had a little shoot out in the capital that made tourists scared to go there
whaack: have you been there / other parts of latam?
BingoBoingo: I haven't. I went straight from the Middle West to living in Uruguay
BingoBoingo: When the search for a datacenter began my initial suspicions were the search would land me somewhere in asia
BingoBoingo: Maybe the Balkans
whaack: BingoBoingo: sry, power died. I was surprised when you wound up in Uruguay as well. I have only been in San Juan del Sur in Nicaragua, it is nothing to write home about. Some of the beaches are filled with trash, it's disgusting. But the surf is excellent since there is a constant offshore wind from the lake.
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