#ossasepia | 2019-09-05

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diana_coman: no, it does not; re-read the question *as stated*.

diana_coman: shrysr: ^

diana_coman: welcome ericbot

diana_coman: !o uptime

ossabot: diana_coman: time since my last reconnect : 3d 16h 21m

diana_coman: !e uptime

ericbot: diana_coman: time since my last reconnect : 0d 7h 11m

shrysr: diana_coman: so all the explanations I've given so far put together do not answer the question?

shrysr: diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-03#1001117 << pls give me an example of 'actual things' other than 'job'? Do things refer to things like computer? Internet? Time? x$$ in bank account?

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-03 19:23:41 diana_coman: and go for actual things, not "a data analyst job"

diana_coman: shrysr: the question is http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-03#1001116 ; what do you *think you need* so that you can be fully present in tmsr; as such, it's up to you to define the *what* but the point was to go for the root causes not for some particular/prepackaged "solutions" to them

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-03 19:23:13 diana_coman: shrysr: ok, let's put it the other way around: *what* do you think you need first, before you can "(3) - is ALL i wanna do" ?

diana_coman: e.g. when you say as above that you need 100k/year, that's just one particular solution you chose to something most likely "I want to be self-sufficient first" or similar

diana_coman: the task you've got is exactly to figure out those deeper wants of yours and as close to root as possible; hence the time too, because you'll need it and you'd better make good use of it too.

diana_coman: it's not the sort of thing that works well when "done" at the last minute.

diana_coman: if it helps, work perhaps backwards from those concrete things perhaps, just don't stop at them

shrysr: yes the above helps. and no its not something that can be done last minute.

diana_coman: shrysr: note also that http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-04#1001252 was a particularly poor answer because it didn't even look at being fully in tmsr, just at moving tmsr to 2nd position rather than 3rd or similar mis-reading.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-04 18:28:19 shrysr: I believe i need to make $ in the ballpark of 100k/year to do (3) all the time >> I'm ok with starting at say 55-70k to account for I'm 'switching' fields - it will be Loads easier to switch mine in same analytics area for higher pay later (if necessary). But it wont be a field change anymore after iniital entry. After init entry irrespective of money i secure - i don't see an issue in pursuing (3). There

shrysr: well i see that. But i am confused abt one thing > why do ppl in chan have jobs for bread ?

shrysr: as i see what you mean about 2nd position - but the answer was aimed at 2 directions ... not 1st and 2nd !

diana_coman: shrysr: not all do; as to those who do, for specific answers you'd best ask each of them, no? for the obvious overall answer: because they haven't yet figured out a way to not to.

diana_coman: before asking, you'd better read their blogs/writings though as the smallest of courtesies

shrysr: well - i'd be happy to ask each of em and go through blogs first - this is a part of my 'education' here. But the point is that those who do not have separate jobs for bread - went through a process to reach there. The others are at different points of 'a journey' is it not?

diana_coman: shrysr: I was just looking that lots of the answers are in #trilema's log too, even; but to your question: not in the sense that you seem to imply, because there isn't "a journey" that one follows along.

diana_coman: it's more to do with what/where they are internally, if you must put it in terms of "journey"; ie where on *their own journey* they are; e.g. http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-04#1001252 or http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/on-relationships-or-how-pretense-kills/

diana_coman: uhm, wrong link

diana_coman: let's test lobbes's bot too; shrysr, log link above should be http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2018-12-12#1880348

ericbot: Logged on 2018-12-12 14:31:02 Mocky: when I look deeply enough into my pockets I see hunger about 6 weeks away, and my phone getting shut off and so I look for the closest solution at hand

diana_coman: nice

shrysr: well i dont mean a fixed path set by Lord Trilema / Diana - i mean that as each individual - they 'need' to figure out the shit in their heads/lives etc to reach that point. Let that be self-sufficiency / Time / whatever --- which is what you mean by internal journey.

shrysr: diana_coman: what exactly am i supposed to search for in the logs to get these 'answers'? "hunger" "bread" "job"?

diana_coman: shrysr: re "journey" do be aware of http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-09-05#1933879

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-05 12:43:59 diana_coman: mircea_popescu: do you remember by any chance *where* did you say explicitly that one's less by precisely their investment/time outside the republic?

diana_coman: re search, oh lord, if it were that easy, lol; what do you think the logs are, some simple tweets with easy-tagging? fwiw there's a good example of a hard "data analysis"

diana_coman: shrysr: anyway, you should NOT go reading now/spend your time until the 15th reading instead of doing your own inner work in figuring stuff out.

shrysr: LOL !!!!! which is why i'm typing here and did not search the logs, because i know i wont find what i need to in time.

diana_coman: there's time for reading afterwards, the words don't go anywhere and they will make more sense later anyway.

shrysr: okay - how is my answer terribly insufficient compared to Mocky's above? he says nearest solution. FWIW: you mentioned earlier abt gardening. you might have noticed - i spent 5 months actually doing the equivalent. its not an answer.

diana_coman: shrysr: Mocky did not say that in answer to the question you've got, lol.

diana_coman: your answer is terribly insufficient *for the question asked*

diana_coman: and at any rate, don't do this inane kids stuff "but X also did it"

shrysr: as an example - or inference. you convert 100k/year >> self sufficiency. I think 'self-sufficiency' is obvious - so what does self-sufficiency mean - 100k/year.. if i go somewhere 9-5 for 5 days a week and make 100k --- i wd not give a fuck abt anything else and i wd do tmsr. thats again presuming i dont have any 'family' and other weird 'requirements' for lack of a better word. The point is even if i get

shrysr: a job next week or in 6 months - it has to co-exist alongside tmsr, untill i figure out how I can make it go away. at 100k/year - i wd STOP looking for a fucking salt-mine upgrade... freeing up all the time i have other than salt-mine till i figure out how to make salt-mine go away! (thats still an extrapolation).

shrysr: brb

diana_coman: shrysr: you should do your own conversions really; and go deeper for once.

diana_coman: given what you said above re 100k/year and what you think it means, I suggest you also focus on the tradeoffs for every "gain" you see, because that part seems to be a total blindspot for you so far.

diana_coman: specifically for the 100k example above, perhaps it's peanuts in Canada for data analysts or something, but one (just ONE, there ARE others too!) likely tradeoff is that for that money you'll have traded so much of your time/energy that there isn't all that much left for doing tmsr.

shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-05#1001301 << that *was* where the 100k/year came from. and it *was* recognised as self-sufficiency and further refined to an approximate figure. I did not 'convert' after reading your commment.

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-05 12:47:54 diana_coman: shrysr: you should do your own conversions really; and go deeper for once.

diana_coman: shrysr: so where exactly was it converted by you before my comment? that aside: the approximate figure is not a refinement at all, it's going precisely in the opposite direction that you need to go with the "conversions"!

diana_coman: when you go that way (i.e. towards looking for what to do to address identified needs), you need to look wide aka find more than one approach really

diana_coman: btw, as you seem to have totally missed it by being too focused on defense/yourself, the point of http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-05#1001301 was that there are likely several causes at the root of that "100k/year" and it's only you who can get to them.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-05 13:03:27 diana_coman: shrysr: you should do your own conversions really; and go deeper for once.

shrysr: it was converted in my head, shaped by assessment of cost of living 1. in a village 2. in a city 3. from atleast 1 person i know whoz been here much longer in (among the) most expensive cities here - toronto. and not recently either. I see what you mean by opposite direction. However - the Minimal is not an option for me. What if it takes me 10 years to figure out how to eliminate any salt-mine? SHd my

shrysr: savings be *wiped out* each time I wanna go home or call my parents down for a visit, or buy a car? I still view those as luxuries. the 100k is the end goal - and btw - data 'scientists' do get paid in that ball park..incidentally. this is ALSO why i mentioned 55-75k - the Other end. Which was based on the fact that I *can* survive + save for *some small emergency* on this, though it would SUCK - i can

shrysr: live a simple life - but i will be rubbing my pennies wishing they breed. On the Flip side - if i look at 'multiple' options, i.e not a salaried 9-5, but multiple 'gigs' to reach whatever minimum:- i believe there is a LOT more work /stress/variability involved - taking away even more from tmsr ultimately. Nobody needs a stupid mech engg for remote work/gigs. There are PLENTY out of work d00d's with 10X my

shrysr: experience in the Oil and Gas + Mech engg field. THey don't need my 'analytics/optimisation/effiency'. FWIW: the work they - i don't like doing -as good as gardening for me. Typical 'fast moving' gigs on portals like 'fiver' or whatever - need web devs and all kindsa shit that i aint good at. there is FIERCE competition on the 'gig' space.

diana_coman: shrysr: multiple approaches! how do you even go from that to ... "multiple jobs/gigs"??

shrysr: I go there to say that i've explored it. I spent a year jobless.

diana_coman: shrysr: would ya' focus for once on what is said and not on your previous experience?

diana_coman: for all I know, a different approach would be to marry a rich old widow, ffs!! and don't say next thing that this is not your thing or something or I'll seriously doubt your reading comprehension skills.

shrysr: Of course! the ultimate solution... absolutely perfect. fwiw : this was a little bit my situation. not old widow - but rich chick. thats another story that had a sad ending.

BingoBoingo: Well, if you go widow usually there's less wait until other claims on the fortune expire

shrysr: :D

diana_coman: shrysr: re "conversion", that's the problem with "in my head" - nobody has any idea what's in there and I'm not going to ruin my crystal ball now either!

shrysr: heads not that ugly that your crystal ball wd be ruined :P but ok. point taken.

shrysr: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-05#1001316 << shd refine this to say - from september 2017 to aug 2018 - there was no tmsr in my world - but i was reduced to looking for any option for nothing more than covering rent and bread...maybe some weed. That was precisely the point i'd 'embraced' data science. I thought FUCK this mech engg - i will bust my ass and get good at data science to secure

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-05 14:08:59 diana_coman: shrysr: would ya' focus for once on what is said and not on your previous experience?

shrysr: a job and meanwhile - live like a rat. I don't say i took a terrible amt of effort. bagging groceries at supermarket or flipping greasy shit at McD was ..... unthinkable.. horrible. i cdnt really bring myself to do it. I guess also - i was privileged. my dad helped. if he refused - i still cd have made it for atleast another 10 months on my own savings... i thought i will spend 24-7 studying and wont waste

shrysr: 8+ hours in a shit hole, and get results faster. The correct solution wd have been to become an uber taxi driver... i just did not have a fucking drivers license then. Now THAT is not a terrible solution....mostly. it has some caveats - upfront investment, upgrading drivers license to 'commercial' and moving to nearest city, variability in fares at the minimum - but probably not insurmountable. Know a guy

shrysr: who did this a few months ago.

BingoBoingo: Tossing bags of mulch at Home Depot was at the very least excercise even if it wasn't well compensated exercise.

asciilifeform: shrysr: 'uber' is a scam, specifically a scheme to rope people into buying cars on credit. they ~require~ that you have one that is < 3y old .

shrysr: yea.... when i heard abt the <3 y thing... i was sure there wd be more that fucked that up as an option.

shrysr: BingoBoingo: true that. unfortunately/fortunately - i had plenty of that.... walked/jogged 10+ km each day. stoned and dejected trying to find inspiration for another call / application.

shrysr: LOL i was pulled over by cops in village when i came here --- for walking!! it was just 10:30PM.... was told - nobody ever seen walking here. shd be on youtube or whateva..... it was cold and i had my hands in my pockets... she reached for her fucking gun and demanded i show my hands. surreal.

diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-05#1001323 - wait, do you mean it's been now a whole year of embracing that old shifty hag of data-something??

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-05 14:51:48 shrysr: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-05#1001316 << shd refine this to say - from september 2017 to aug 2018 - there was no tmsr in my world - but i was reduced to looking for any option for nothing more than covering rent and bread...maybe some weed. That was precisely the point i'd 'embraced' data science. I thought FUCK this mech engg - i will bust my ass and get good at data science to secure

diana_coman: and you know: write down how you narrowed the field down to it anyway.

diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-05#1001326 - ugh, not correct at all; possibly worse than bagging groceries since very likely to leave you out of pocket too and by a significant amount; a car is a liability, not an asset!

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-05 14:51:52 shrysr: 8+ hours in a shit hole, and get results faster. The correct solution wd have been to become an uber taxi driver... i just did not have a fucking drivers license then. Now THAT is not a terrible solution....mostly. it has some caveats - upfront investment, upgrading drivers license to 'commercial' and moving to nearest city, variability in fares at the minimum - but probably not insurmountable. Know a guy

diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-05#1001330 - uhm, so 2 lines further down you go all of a sudden from "The correct solution" to "fucked that up as an option" ??

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-05 14:55:29 shrysr: yea.... when i heard abt the <3 y thing... i was sure there wd be more that fucked that up as an option.

diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-05#1001332 - now this you should defo filmed and put on your blog! and no, NOT on youtube ffs.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-05 14:59:59 shrysr: LOL i was pulled over by cops in village when i came here --- for walking!! it was just 10:30PM.... was told - nobody ever seen walking here. shd be on youtube or whateva..... it was cold and i had my hands in my pockets... she reached for her fucking gun and demanded i show my hands. surreal.

diana_coman: esp is she had a... fucking gun, lolz.

shrysr: it was the 'correct' solution in the sense that driving is more pleasurable than bagging groceries to me. I cd wait for a fare and have a laptop continuing my search possibly... as far as i cd see - it was less work for more money and i'd atleast get to see the city as well and perhaps meet ppl while improving so called mobility. also correct because i walked like a dog in the snow and rain for about 5

shrysr: months after shifting to village for this job because i learnt in the hard way that there are places in canada where u either walk or have a car. essentially - i carried my laundry + groceries abt 2km every week for that period not unlike a donkey. i needed a car to go LOOK at old cars!! which were ALL in the next town as a minimum. I was extremely fortunate to find a 3rd hand 2003 pontiac sunfire for

shrysr: 1000$. The guy was nice enough to bring the car to me when i told him i wd walk to his mega ranch about 5km away. ALSO correct because of ridiculous norms here. They have a driving test every 3 weeks here, with one 'registry' per town, but in the city - every day almost ... with multiple registries.

diana_coman: shrysr: see, there's for sure one of your troubles: you consider correct what is pleasurable; that (like "doing what I want and obtaining what I need") may work but only after you know enough to really find pleasurable what is actually correct (and to want what you actually need); a tall order.

diana_coman: that village life without money is likely even shittier than town life without money might not be all that surprising, yes; but what did you change as a result of all those "surprises" and unexpecteds? because I don't see it anywhere and it's the most important part really.

diana_coman: and by change I mean change in your decision process because that's the one that worked rather spectacularly poorly (and on repeat too, from what I gather)

shrysr: not sure what decision process you are talking abt. A car is a liability as I ack and also know - but having a license is important. thats 1 thing i learned. fwiw: i did not think i'd end up in a heathen place without public transit, or even a real taxi service. Even India aint like that (well.. to a surprisingly large extent). The numbers indicate signifcantly more jobs altogether in toronto /ontario...

shrysr: it seemed more likely i wd not have to leave esp 'under duress with a single option in hand', even if it took some more months to find a job.

diana_coman: shrysr: the decision process that yielded "data analyst is the solution"; it starts with root causes, it has some sort of methodology for considering /discarding potential options etc. Is there even such a thing really?

diana_coman: shrysr: it can happen you are wrong (ie. "i did not think X or Y"), sure; but *every* time that happens, it's a sign your thinking process was not good enough that time; now, if you *have* an actual process, you can examine it in light of the observed failure and decide on a change so that next time you do not repeat the same sort of fail; onth if there isn't a clear process, there isn't much to do and chances are you'll just repeat the sa

diana_coman: argh, cut line, it was: "you'll just repeat the same fail sooner or later."

diana_coman: or as great-grandma used to say *after* she had used already a big stick on one's back: making a mistake once is unfortunate, making it twice is asking for it but making it a third time is being an idiot alltogether.

shrysr: I spent 1 year walking through snow and mud for almost everything in toronto, to save bus money and because i needed to walk off frustration..lol. I thought walking wd be perfectly feasible in village. It shd have been per the distances involved (google maps) and partially is perfect (in summer). I didnt even want a damn car!! The difference Unfortunately as it turned out is that the Godforsaken village

shrysr: (actually town.. i've started calling it village nowadays) did not have fucking sidewalks. The sidewalks are ONLY at the center of town and some spots. The cheapest motel was right opposite work thankfully - which meant walking 80% in calf-deep+ snow on the side of a road and 20% on sidewalk for weekly runs to stores. Shifting to motel at center of town wd mean walking that 80% Everyday to work. another

shrysr: one of my troubles as you call it is that i refuse to ask help unless I'm gonnna die or something... ppl wd have picked me up but i always view it as an unreliable dependence which introduces complications one way or the other -- If theres anything i wd change - its that i shd ask for help and not always think i can become tough(er) by facing more shit + not fear the obligation that i need to return the

shrysr: favor even at an inconvenient cost in the future. Not everybody is a black orc to be feared and avoided... its not helpful to start like that in a new place atleast. I am called the 'friendliest anti-social person' ever by the few ppl at mine.. its true. i dont talk much... except in chan it seems of late. I would shift the balance towards social... but i cant shake the 'belief' that the majority of social

shrysr: interactions are corrosive..

shrysr: lol friendliest because i smile more than talk.

diana_coman: shrysr: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-05#1001356 - yep and I *knew* it before getting to that line; because north-america is not same as europe is not same as asia is not same as africa and so on.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-05 17:56:47 shrysr: (actually town.. i've started calling it village nowadays) did not have fucking sidewalks. The sidewalks are ONLY at the center of town and some spots. The cheapest motel was right opposite work thankfully - which meant walking 80% in calf-deep+ snow on the side of a road and 20% on sidewalk for weekly runs to stores. Shifting to motel at center of town wd mean walking that 80% Everyday to work. another

diana_coman: the bit to change there re decision process is to consider potential differences; pretty much what popped up in fact already iirc.

diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-05#1001360 - funnily enough this was precisely what I pictured the moment I read the description; at most non-committal talk.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-05 17:58:15 shrysr: lol friendliest because i smile more than talk.

diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-05#1001359 - only when you don't match the type of interaction correctly to what you have there ; note that the corrosiveness comes from your own mishandling, not really from their end; link also to http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-04#1001237

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-05 17:56:53 shrysr: interactions are corrosive..

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-04 17:42:21 diana_coman: people are rare, certainly.

diana_coman: and then anyway, are you made of iron or of diamond, what's all this!!

diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-05#1001357 - the trouble sounds more related to vanity by the sounds of it.

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-05 17:56:49 shrysr: one of my troubles as you call it is that i refuse to ask help unless I'm gonnna die or something... ppl wd have picked me up but i always view it as an unreliable dependence which introduces complications one way or the other -- If theres anything i wd change - its that i shd ask for help and not always think i can become tough(er) by facing more shit + not fear the obligation that i need to return the

diana_coman: ftr you grow (aka "become tough(er)") by facing *what scares you* not just whatever random shit that you fell into; in other words, it's not the toughness of the outside thing that makes one tough, this is not magical eat-the-enemy-s-brain sort of thing; toughness is your quality and specifically what *remains* after the excision of weaknesses.

diana_coman: shrysr: so.... what scares you most? :D

diana_coman will be back tomorrow.

shrysr: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-05#1001366 yea..i know what you mean, abt my own mishandling and agree. i guess it is a thin line for me. I've been uncomfortably right many times, though I do force myself to think i'm wrong and have no right to classify orcs/ppl like this or dont even know enough to do so accurately anyway... i guess I usually test the waters or learn enough simply by

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-05 18:08:34 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-05#1001359 - only when you don't match the type of interaction correctly to what you have there ; note that the corrosiveness comes from your own mishandling, not really from their end; link also to http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-04#1001237

shrysr: keeping quiet and observing after which i pick and choose the ppl i will 'deign' to interact with.. This is refined frequently based on situation and needs and strategy is improvised.. but they all get the same wide smile so everybody is available to fulfill any necessary strategy. i dont talk at all till i trust a little bit..to the point of appearing moronic... and even more - i avoid 'unintelligent'

shrysr: small-talk -- if i have cut across to somebody - i'd rather prepare something sensible. Even so - i've tried reading up 'shit to share'...now and then .. sort of remind myself - this can be used in small talk!! if i do rem - i let it rip... lolz. Often dont. Its not a technique attacking root cause change --- over the years its become better in general. It had to be done for example at 2nd salt mine - i

shrysr: was dealing with customers directly..lol. One 'less important reason' - i got out of R&D (1st salt mine) so that I wd also force myself to *interact* on a much bigger scale. The good thing is that i recognise the weakness... the bad thing is that the more i 'learn abt myself' or any subject - the more alienated i seem to get from most. like sort of improving - but still slipping.

shrysr: All this being said .... i take the effort to make sure - nothing i do shd harm anybody. That wd be unspeakably ugly to me if i caused that.

shrysr: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-05#1001372 i agree with the definition or distinction - but i guess I viewed it also as a penance of sorts. tougher in a holistic sense -- more disciplined, more self-reliant, physically more fit (eat enemies brains), to 'fully feel the pain' and thus the value of getting a car for eg....and i did have to stop and get a car - it was freakin cold lol - more

ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-05 18:19:34 diana_coman: ftr you grow (aka "become tough(er)") by facing *what scares you* not just whatever random shit that you fell into; in other words, it's not the toughness of the outside thing that makes one tough, this is not magical eat-the-enemy-s-brain sort of thing; toughness is your quality and specifically what *remains* after the excision of weaknesses.

shrysr: importantly - i cdnt walk on the ice.

BingoBoingo: Just as well, driving on ice threatens to depreciate any car at Argentine speed

shrysr: :D

shrysr: BingoBoingo: is the traffic there is similar to india i.e almost no rules? i've been told phillipines is pretty much same / worse..

shrysr: or rather - rules extant, but free not to follow mostly.

BingoBoingo: Here in Uruguay the traffic isn't awful. There simply aren't any expressways. This means going 15 km from one side of the city to the other can be a 45 minute to 60 minute affair.

BingoBoingo: Worse if choosing a route that includes Avenida Italia

shrysr: :)) same but With expressways in india .... dead of the night - reach the airport in 20-30 min.... during the day 2+ hours.

shrysr: mumbai to be precise.

BingoBoingo: Lots of buses, but anything under 5-6 km and walking tends to result in a faster time to destination once waiting for the bus is factored in.

shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-05#1001370 I've wondered abt that sometimes... while vanity has definitely reared its head several times explicitly when younger - to the extent of threatening to get ppl fired :- 'you don't know me... or my dad' :)) (for which dad ripped me several assholes and lifted not a finger) - it died down significantly as I went farther away from home on its own and

snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-05 17:58:40 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-05#1001357 - the trouble sounds more related to vanity by the sounds of it.

shrysr: started slavery. I've generally been able to detect it (atleast in recent years) and course correct. Some brusque statements/or silence itself is mistaken for vanity/arrogance by orcs - however i think i dont ask for help - not because i consider myself superior - the focus is more about 'becoming' capable to handle everything thrown at me without crying for help... there are situations when its absolutely

shrysr: clear help is needed. But in many other situations it goes - if I can do it maself taking some extra effort/stress whatever - then I shd. and there are small lateral benefits/learning usually in doing so. And then I also get to avoid social interaction in the process too.. lol. My thinking is that it is not vanity...

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