diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-03#1001124 - sweet youth and innocence: it can always get worse! but it doesn't matter, as it's not something you can predict either way, anyway.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-03 20:20:07 shrysr: re: mofos @ new job. I've gathered enough wisdom as well as knowledge to understand that mofos are everywhere. My (2) is not being thought of as a switch to paradise. It seems to be the typical 'nature' of doing business and obsessions with ROI at any cost - which is what it is. But i've also learnt - there is something like 'lesser evil'. The assessment is that - it cannot get worse!! fwiw - i hated
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-03#1001128 - you know, those they own are (through that very situation) even worse, so...
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-03 20:20:15 shrysr: humanity - who nevertheless own half+ of said village.
diana_coman: what's your definition for "being insulted" anyway?
diana_coman: note that I'm not at all saying that they are any better than you say and/or that you should stay there, not at all.
diana_coman: as far as *that* part goes, you should have possibly left earlier, if anything, precisely *because* you don't actually have any cause to stay there.
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-03#1001130 - yes; and conversely, there are also people who are worth *any* "dance"; plus every degree in between; all you need to do is pretty much exactly evaluating this correctly and acting accordingly.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-03 20:33:59 shrysr: any dance... (this I've learnt recently).
diana_coman: !o uptime
ossabot: diana_coman: time since my last reconnect : 2d 15h 48m
shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-03#1001112 : I understand this since I've underestimated it's effect in the past and know better. new mine new place - there will be a period of 'settling' etc etc, in addition to the possibility of insane mine requirements, proving you are 'worthy' etc. My reasoning on this yesterday went that if that is gonna happen - then why cant I do (1) (2) (3) now
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-03 19:05:25 diana_coman: let me cite for you from someone else's direct experience, here: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-05-30#1916225
ossabot: Logged on 2019-05-30 09:30:27 ave1: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-01#1910413, not dead, to get up to speed I let my new job take over my life
shrysr: and plan my life and live almost like a machine right now if thats what it takes? (fwiw: i've tried that.. conceded I am not a cyborg) Why consider a step back from (3) to make (2) happen... i've wasted most of my life - why take a step back from something that feels like an antidote to the poison, while simultaneously pursuing (at worst) slightly less potent ....poison? I can say today "I'll be back" and
shrysr: something new will pop up again.. and again... both external and internal demons will do their besto wreak havoc... if i can't find the will and energy to do my best at (1) (2) (3) AND achieve results now - then how wd I realistically ever come back to (3)? The only answer I have is that if I did not come back to (3) - i wd view it as a great loss to myself. I believe I wd miss this chan/world if i take a
shrysr: step back.. from what I've seen of myself - if there's something I can fix - will typically take steps, but thats in the 'past' and not a guarantee. I was dissatisfied with the outcome - hence the 'gave up' (more like gave up at midnight to be tackled immediately later.. still tackling).
shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-04#1001138 yes. the issue with my change in this particular instance is that I think mech engg/ my field / industry - is not what I wanna do anymore. If it was a upward shift to a better similar mine - (2) would be perfectly manageable with (1) and (3). i've tried to reconcile with that as well - its come to the point that I get angry when I see a mech engg
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-04 09:40:21 diana_coman: as far as *that* part goes, you should have possibly left earlier, if anything, precisely *because* you don't actually have any cause to stay there.
shrysr: job description.
shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-04#1001139 > i completely agree. I believe this has been my mistake. For eg: my last salt mine shd have been 'the final choice'. If i'd been there... and I found ossasepia ... i wd have stayed - i believe my life wd have actually been very close to paradise..on an objective basis... i had my own freaking chauffeur at 29! Well i was lucky to get support from
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-04 09:42:53 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-03#1001130 - yes; and conversely, there are also people who are worth *any* "dance"; plus every degree in between; all you need to do is pretty much exactly evaluating this correctly and acting accordingly.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-03 20:33:59 shrysr: any dance... (this I've learnt recently).
shrysr: home as well - still got paid much more than I needed - reasonable prospects of growth..etc etc. There were enough ppl who had brains - and i had made a strong impression. they were willing to 'slowly work out' starting a 'department' for the 'specific technical shit' i wanted to do (for which I was leaving, and which I got here only in a very diluted manner after a lot more suffering). This validates your
shrysr: previous point - it can get worse. I thought even an asshole in the west is gonna run a company with more 'professional' standards..... the chances of getting fucked is minimal + other benefits will make up.
shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-04#1001136 << believe that is very relevant to consider. Its like being treated / spoken to unfairly. as in I make all the effort to see your viewpoint - and present an argument/statement/idea that is respectful to your viewpoint, but also conveys my message - and you fail to control your 'hurt ego' of being told something you did not consider and proceed to
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-04 09:37:44 diana_coman: what's your definition for "being insulted" anyway?
shrysr: say evrything under the sun as a response... i may be an ugly dwarf or dumb giant - but thats not what we're talking abt. Being irrational to the point of stupidity and open lack of control is insulting to me. Especially when you control yourself talking to X,Y (in front of me) and lose it talking to me.
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-04#1001152 - sounds like a concrete example of "there's nothing worse than too much money too soon."
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-04 11:50:19 shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-04#1001139 > i completely agree. I believe this has been my mistake. For eg: my last salt mine shd have been 'the final choice'. If i'd been there... and I found ossasepia ... i wd have stayed - i believe my life wd have actually been very close to paradise..on an objective basis... i had my own freaking chauffeur at 29! Well i was lucky to get support from
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-04 09:42:53 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-03#1001130 - yes; and conversely, there are also people who are worth *any* "dance"; plus every degree in between; all you need to do is pretty much exactly evaluating this correctly and acting accordingly.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-03 20:33:59 shrysr: any dance... (this I've learnt recently).
shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-04#1001160 -- no its not! I dint make THAT much. and I don't waste money fucking around (probably a little too extreme there) so i cd afford to do that, and I got an extra 2.5 hours to tinker everyday.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-04 12:12:29 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-04#1001152 - sounds like a concrete example of "there's nothing worse than too much money too soon."
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-04 11:50:19 shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-04#1001139 > i completely agree. I believe this has been my mistake. For eg: my last salt mine shd have been 'the final choice'. If i'd been there... and I found ossasepia ... i wd have stayed - i believe my life wd have actually been very close to paradise..on an objective basis... i had my own freaking chauffeur at 29! Well i was lucky to get support from
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-04 09:42:53 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-03#1001130 - yes; and conversely, there are also people who are worth *any* "dance"; plus every degree in between; all you need to do is pretty much exactly evaluating this correctly and acting accordingly.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-03 20:33:59 shrysr: any dance... (this I've learnt recently).
shrysr: well.. tinker or even sleep for that matter.
shrysr: a chauffeur is probably a 'ridiculously rich' concept in the west - its not so in india. well it is not 'cheap cheap' but its affordable if you need it.
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-04#1001159 -i.e. you are "insulted" when confronted with concrete evidence that your status is not what you thought it was / "should be".
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-04 12:15:10 shrysr: say evrything under the sun as a response... i may be an ugly dwarf or dumb giant - but thats not what we're talking abt. Being irrational to the point of stupidity and open lack of control is insulting to me. Especially when you control yourself talking to X,Y (in front of me) and lose it talking to me.
diana_coman: shrysr: it's not about "ridiculously rich", nor even about an objective amount of money really; "too much too soon" has to do with whether you were at that point able or not to correctly evaluate the actual value of what you had; and from what you say, you weren't.
shrysr: i wasnt .... based on current mine (somewhat similar business/products) - but it can be viewed as misfortune as well. There ARE better companies and human beings out there.
shrysr: well - it wasnt entirely that either. I didnt need a chauffeur if there was a decent bus i cd sit in and something useful for that 1-2 hours. I was willing to give up a few things to find the 'cool people'.
diana_coman: shrysr: the "misfortune" view may be comforting but... how is it helpful? Sure, ~everything has some luck component in it as well, absolutely.
shrysr: its not helpful at all... but beyond a point - what mistake did i make ? how wd I know before hand whether mine is better or worse ... i can formulate some guidelines from my and your and XYZ's experience .... but its never enough.
diana_coman: shrysr: onth it might well be that had you found #ossasepia at that time (though ahem, I hadn't...started it at that time, lol), you wouldn't have considered it the same as you do now, precisely because you lacked the experience you got meanwhile.
shrysr: possibly. I did know I was desperately in search by then. Emacs , code... tinkering... etc started then.
shrysr: in earnest.
shrysr: i didnt find anything... so i looked for better mine ppl etc. i identified exactly as you said before - the nature of the 'country' / business or whatever is X... i need Y... pursued Y... got 0.25 * Y
diana_coman: well, tmsr *was* around at that time for sure; anyway, discussion of the past is useful only to the extent that you can discuss the decision process that resulted in that, not like this "what mistake" .
diana_coman: well, unclear if pursued Y as it were; perhaps it is the case that you were cheated/fooled by the mirage of Y, very possibly indeed; but the past is what it is and it's done and dusted, nothing to fret over really.
shrysr: yes... i only meant to say that i have spent stoned/non-stoned days trying to 'analyst'... and writing down this shit and talking abt it with my dad.. who is fortunately somewhat as patient.. and its less of 'comfort' and much more of wtf is left.
diana_coman: shrysr: did you ever "analyst" your decision process rather than "what happened"?
shrysr: i believe yes. brb 10 min.
diana_coman: in that case you should have some concrete conclusions though.
shrysr: analyse*.. i think yes, because the two are quite connected are they not? a lot of small and large events happen because of a decision or approach or attitude or ignorance or laziness? Some decisions are 'forced'. like taking a job when you don't have one. i was fortunate in the past because each time i got into a mine - i had exactly 2 offers in hand.. both on 2 ocassions were sufficiently different to
shrysr: dictate a 'deeper' evaluation to reach clarity. I had to balance 'emotional barfing' versus why I felt something and whether there was a solution.
shrysr: dont say i did it well or perfectly .. but i don't think a good decision can be reached without being aware of the process and invisible 'factors' driving a decision or desire.
diana_coman: hmmm, it doesn't sound like much analysis at all really; some reflection perhaps but at least in what you said so far there isn't any solid structure to it so you can't claim "analysis".
shrysr: well you dont see a solid structure because 1. you don't/can't know my life intimately. You know what I tell you in the disconnected bits spewing from my head which I try to organise into some coherence, but still don't represent all the threads nor the process it took to reach there, which happens to conver days, months, years. i'm not building a structured thesis here by presenting every single thread -
shrysr: a lot of threads were considered/ digested /discarded / pulled / forgotten/deemed unimportant in the process of reaching major decisions! What - does it appear each thing i say was a whim? Every mine was entered with the idea of staying there, then deciding to find a new mine - was a serious decision because it IS a pain in the ass and I had to evaluate WHY and whther I cd get what I wanted right here..or
shrysr: not! 2. while a lot of this is gathered from my recollection - and some notes - in general - i spend a lot of time before taking even relatively minor decisions - while i admit a bunch are also taken on 'instinct' - they are usually not major. 3. (Y) above in case I havent clearly conveyed was not a mirage. A lot of the analysis actually holds well - i HAVE got some exp at current mine which i targeted,
shrysr: which I wd not have at previous mine, which I considered Critical. However, it happened in a way that robbed the happiness. It has also been so that the absolute worst considered was not absolute. - because New learning takes place displacing or refining older 'approaches'. I have an 'offer letter' drafted covering what I wanted to do and also covering an 'exit' and actually got to do almost NONE of it.
shrysr: It's usually not THAT disparate anywhere. 4. For each 'complaint' i make abt my life/job i make to my dad - he usually has 10 real life examples to 'prove' my view is incorrect/short sighted / idealistic / emotion driven. forcing me to analyse further than the point I'd think i have it 'really' covered. Doesnt have to be complete, but it does help that he is more or less from the same industry and i've
shrysr: seen too many examples of him being right to the point of things being frightening. I don't spare his theories or examples even then. The difference is he made 1 major pivot and I've actually made 2 in just 5 years, and trying to make 3rd. 6. Probably most important - i did Not want to 'quit mech engg' when I came out here. Now i Do.
diana_coman: shrysr: you got on the defensive without really considering what was being said and it's not helping.
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-04#1001197 - ftr note that you are never in a position to "spare" what someone who says when they have proven before to such degree that they know what they are talking about; that is just plain silly.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-04 14:14:30 shrysr: seen too many examples of him being right to the point of things being frightening. I don't spare his theories or examples even then. The difference is he made 1 major pivot and I've actually made 2 in just 5 years, and trying to make 3rd. 6. Probably most important - i did Not want to 'quit mech engg' when I came out here. Now i Do.
shrysr: yea. i realised just now you meant what are the threads considered... i'm 'loosely' summarising and it doesnt help you see what i mean and whether theres a mistake in the chain.
diana_coman: and you know, he's your father so you get more credit there than possibly anywhere else but if you apply the same "approach" in general, you'll just lose out.
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-04#1001199 - spurious "who" in there, it should have read "what someone says, when they have proven..."
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-04 15:44:19 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-04#1001197 - ftr note that you are never in a position to "spare" what someone who says when they have proven before to such degree that they know what they are talking about; that is just plain silly.
shrysr: ok.. by spare - i meant - i cross-examined, with what I considered valid/related questions if I did not connect the dots in what he said. i don't mean being a rebel discarding his advice and falling and learning via experiments. As in what if that situation was modified to X - would your advice or my strategy change.
diana_coman: the easiest thing to do for anyone who knows something is to back off and let you be.
diana_coman: asking questions is a different thing, nothing to do with "spare"
shrysr: did not spare analysing that.
diana_coman: not that anyone *has* to answer any of your questions either, there is that too.
shrysr: Few actually have for that matter!
diana_coman: well, what incentive did you offer them? and for that matter, what payback did you give then to those few who did?
shrysr: more questions? lol. Well, I did not have too much to offer. Undying loyalty..praise... respect whatever.. a significantly longer rope. The rest wd get a brief smile and these wd get a salute? I'd use the advice to get something done and 'advertise' that X deserves credit. With those who did - if they ever needed anything - i'd drop everything else and do that. In essence - i wd dance to any degree and
shrysr: show them my world revolved around them. Those who did generally had the interest to develop younger ppl...and share experience...me knowing more enables me to do my job better with a cascading effect reaching these ppl. Take the path from sales to engineering - if you sell something you don't kow shit abt and did a piss poor job handing it over to manufacturing - the problem is dealt with by general
shrysr: manager X .... i needed X to show me the problems so I cd improve and he faces fewer problems. something like that.
diana_coman: covers well one half of it.
shrysr: probably worth noting i need X to show me the problems in the first place beacuse I report to Y and Y happens to be inept and creating more problems. Since I report to Y - i cannot pretend Y doesnt exist. The rest don't exist to me.... in any meaningful way i guess.
shrysr: which half is not covered? incentive and payback is covered isnt it ?
diana_coman: shrysr: the payback has 2 halfs: you are missing in there the half about making most of their time+effort whenever they invest it in you; in simplest terms, being fertile soil.
shrysr: okay. hey when i say that my world revolves around them - doesnt it imply there *is* fertile soil? how else did i take in their advice and change something?
diana_coman: shrysr: it's hard to say what "world revolves around them" means for one or another, you know? that aside, better explicit than implicit (esp. when it's *that* important*) and "change something" is not exactly what it was about.
shrysr: hmm so how do you show fertile soil ?
shrysr: explicitly ?
diana_coman: 1. opening up without reserves (being unflinchingly vulnerable in interaction with them, in other words)
diana_coman: 2. exploring the implications and/or roots of what is new/surprising/unexpected
diana_coman: 3. aiming to do what they asked done, for real.
diana_coman: 3 points is quite enough for what is anyway otherwise 1 single word: submitting. Can't learn a lot without it.
shrysr: ok. Only Re 1 : In your case - you wdnt for example contact my salt-mine share my rants etc... or fuck me over. I did not start with that distinction in mind and still cannot guarantee you wont do something like that - or somebody else in chan - but i trust you have better things to do and trust you (more every day), and realised it was pointless to not submit and express my thoughts as well so they cd be
shrysr: corrected... All the barriers are not down - but fwiw never have so many been down. Except with 1-2 profs in the past (briefly). However, in a mine setting - GM X, significantly better than the rest --- has vices... he likes me - but he doesnt all the time because he has his games to play, at anybodys cost really. ppl are funny that way, i.e submitting 100% is like leaving a hole in the castle wall for the
shrysr: orcs to enter in that case. No?
diana_coman: shrysr: you need to choose who to submit to, of course.
diana_coman: ie if you open the door for orcs then they'll set your house on fire, sure; don't open the door to orcs, no; open it however to people.
diana_coman: re guarantee: there can't ever be any guarantee for anything that is still in the future.
diana_coman: note though that you can't know *what you don't know* and therefore you can't choose your learning steps - all you can choose (in the best case already) is the person(s) to learn from.
diana_coman: shrysr: anyways, meanwhile there's still neither answer to http://younghands.club/2019/09/02/week-7-review/#comment-18 nor the task list ; I gather the mine-work is at least out of crisis but that's about it.
shrysr: hmm... the problem in the mines is there is not much choice. 1 out of 100's have brain to have studied the product/process... fewer (even young) still interested in finding answers... few old interested in cultivating young / improving shit to do more meaningful work and less drama. essentially GM X was half orcish in a land of orcs, not ppl. count in 1 hand the ppl i been absolutely vulnerable with or
shrysr: admitting any more than required.
diana_coman: people are rare, certainly.
shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-04#1001234 << yea. the crisis is averted. However, as we've been discussing, or i've been ranting since yesterday ...focus split (1) (2) (3) is the problem. one sec, i will share a litttle diag to show you example.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-04 17:18:20 diana_coman: shrysr: anyways, meanwhile there's still neither answer to http://younghands.club/2019/09/02/week-7-review/#comment-18 nor the task list ; I gather the mine-work is at least out of crisis but that's about it.
shrysr: diana_coman: ^
shrysr: the lines in blue are essentially things that are active.
diana_coman: shrysr: ok, so you are saying that you are in fact focusing for the next ?? months on finding a "data analyst" job; yes?
shrysr: i'm saying i need to....
shrysr: i havent exactly 'decided'.
shrysr: rather the urgent need is to get out. i dont wanna step back from tmsr... but i donno if i can do it all.
shrysr: brb 10 min.
diana_coman: eh, listen here, this sort of not-decided but doing that and none of the rest but-still-dont-wanna is not going to get anywhere; you have until the 15th of September to answer http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-03#1001116
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-03 19:23:13 diana_coman: shrysr: ok, let's put it the other way around: *what* do you think you need first, before you can "(3) - is ALL i wanna do" ?
diana_coman: that's all.
shrysr: i donno if in 1 week : i split into sections of focus. during salt-mine hours - i can still do erp and still spend say 30-40% on other directions and do fine if I keep up discipline and balance. the question is how to balance the remaining directions, and whether I can balance 2 directions in remaining time and still deliver because theres so much to do in both.
shrysr: I believe i need to make $ in the ballpark of 100k/year to do (3) all the time >> I'm ok with starting at say 55-70k to account for I'm 'switching' fields - it will be Loads easier to switch mine in same analytics area for higher pay later (if necessary). But it wont be a field change anymore after iniital entry. After init entry irrespective of money i secure - i don't see an issue in pursuing (3). There
shrysr: will be only 2 directions then... salt-mine and tmsr.
shrysr: diana_coman: does this answer the Q?