Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2022-05-13 | 2022-05-15 → ↓
verisimilitude: I've noticed the latest commentator on loper-os has an interesting website.
crtdaydreams: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-14#1102450 << oh hi, it's hayley from #common-lisp on libera
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-14 02:03:25 verisimilitude: I've noticed the latest commentator on loper-os has an interesting website.
crtdaydreams: would also like to say fuck gentoo.
shinohai: crtdaydreams: lol are you stuck on your install again?
crtdaydreams: shinohai: yeah nah yeah
crtdaydreams: I have spent 3 whole days this week sun up to sundown trying to get it working, I'm just gonna continue using void
shinohai recalls much swearing in his forays into it, then one day "just clicked".
crtdaydreams: I have literally not felt this primal anger for a long time
crtdaydreams: The frustration of compiling, recompiling and it just. doesn't. work.
crtdaydreams: So yesterday, I got nvidia drivers going, turns out with a hardened kernel module signing is enabled by default.
crtdaydreams: But some weird shit with xorg perms and and not having permission to access /dev/tty7 with 0 answers availiable as to why on the 'net, I decided today I was going to bulldoze, go from the top with a fresh frame of mind.
crtdaydreams: ...and what good that did for me, now signing the nvidia driver doesn't work.
crtdaydreams: Even disabling module signing in the kernel and recompiling fails to make a difference.
shinohai: You don't by chance have `pam` module disabled system wide do you?
crtdaydreams: if -pam in useflags counts then fml.
crtdaydreams: nope, it's not diabled.
crtdaydreams: I'm wondering if my approach is all wrong. I'm currently starting off trying to run a mimnimal build with complex useflags and package masks. I should probably just take a step back and get use it as is before moving onto dangerous optimisations.
shinohai: That might be a better move, plenty of time to rice it up and optimize further once you have a build that works. Then you can step through different config changes as time (and your understanding) permits.
crtdaydreams: Eh. It depends how well things like to play. I'm inclined to believe that having a sane system + nvidia drivers just isn't possible.
shinohai: I think it was mentioned the other day, but might be best to use that particular machine as a toilet and try hand at Gentoo on a box that doesn't have that limitation.
crtdaydreams: yeha. If I had a mobo w/ more than 1 pcie slot I'd be inclined to take the kvm route. i.e. a toilet virtualized on dulap
crtdaydreams: pcie passthrough one gpu directly to the VM, you wouldn't know the difference.
crtdaydreams: could run as many toilets on one box as ya want
crtdaydreams: I'm not sleeping til i get this box going
shinohai: $ticker btc usd
busybot: Current BTC price in USD: $28891.64
asciilifeform: wb punkman
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-14#1102450 << indeed interesting. author's 'anti-minimalist' arguments are reminiscent of naggum's imho
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-14 02:03:25 verisimilitude: I've noticed the latest commentator on loper-os has an interesting website.
dulapbot: (trilema) 2015-08-07 asciilifeform: hence naggum pissing on scheme as a 'pedo' language that is only loved by folks who like the embryonic stage of things when they have no wrinkles (by his lights)
asciilifeform however sees symptoms that subj had close contact with type III opensores and this left permanent scars
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-14 06:51:58 crtdaydreams: Eh. It depends how well things like to play. I'm inclined to believe that having a sane system + nvidia drivers just isn't possible.
dulapbot: Logged on 2021-11-07 20:24:04 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2021-11-07#1063729 << i got 1 of those amd cad card things that doesn't 3d ~at all. but worx with 100% blobless driver, and pushes 3 x '4k', which was all i needed.
punkman: hey asciilifeform
punkman: how's it going?
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-14#1102467 << yep, this is why billymg questioned you about it.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-14 06:48:39 crtdaydreams: I'm wondering if my approach is all wrong. I'm currently starting off trying to run a mimnimal build with complex useflags and package masks. I should probably just take a step back and get use it as is before moving onto dangerous optimisations.
signpost: you can't change what the nvidia binwad wants on your system.
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-14#1102458 << this is silly and immature. you're flailing at a tool without taking the time to understand the tool.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-14 06:12:48 crtdaydreams: I have literally not felt this primal anger for a long time
signpost: use gentoo if you want to know of what a Linux system is comprised. if not, straight to one of the preassembled systems.
signpost: and you're going to have to give yourself the time to say, understand what dynamic linking is, what the dev filesystem is, what controls permissions in it, etc
signpost: consider that in everything you wrote, I don't see where there's a xorg.log barf for anyone to look at.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-14#1102487 << a little like this, lol. what've you been up to, punkman ?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-14 11:26:33 punkman: how's it going?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-14#1102495 << this. is interesting how almost erry n00b has to be taught that telepathy dun exist, nor telekinesis, gotta actually post barf & read feedback...
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-14 12:05:22 signpost: consider that in everything you wrote, I don't see where there's a xorg.log barf for anyone to look at.
punkman: all good, bit tired. been browsing some logs and blog posts today
punkman: listening to whaack's podcast now
asciilifeform must bbl
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-14#1102474 << I did this often in my 20s, grand demonstrations of my veryveryserious intent to get something done.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-14 07:10:50 crtdaydreams: I'm not sleeping til i get this box going
signpost: I invariably produced shittier work that I had to fix later.
signpost: probably wouldn't be able to build pentacle if I was letting myself get galled at every step.
signpost: current lulz there involve sifting through builds of gcc with diffoscope investigating causes of bit-churn.
signpost: excellent tool btw. imagine if I were instead hashing the build output, comparing hash, getting upset, going to flail at the build process, building again...
signpost: if you can't see where a problem's coming from, try solving your blindness first rather than the problem.
shinohai: diffoscope looks pretty nifty signpost, never heard of it until now.
signpost: debian did a lot of work on reproducible builds.
signpost: I'm using it via git's "difftool" command. example output: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=EVAO
signpost: debug sections churning between builds
signpost: the way I'm handling those is doing uses debug || strip -d ... in the pbuild.
punkman: browsing random software docs and seeing Ukraine banners everywhere, how did this become a thing
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-16 19:07:48 phf: i mean, why is nobody even questioning this aspect? the millions of compounding effects that pervasive internet has on humanity as a whole?
punkman: been knee-deep in some "modern" php/javascript code last few weeks, the perverts are doing unspeakable things
punkman: npm build some stupid javascript thing -> downloads 250mb of libraries
signpost: ah welcome to hell punkman.
signpost has transpiled some webpacked javashits in his day.
signpost gonna enjoy sunshine at the pool for a bit.
billymg: punkman: it's a nightmare
punkman: I did find a nice javascript thing, alpinejs, got the UI I needed done in a couple days
punkman: but looking PHP stuff, seems like they have gone full enterprise-java-mode
billymg: i'll have to check out alpinejs. i've heard vue.js is supposed to be the new, lighter-weight, react, but haven't tried it myself yet
punkman: billymg: vue seemed as horrible as any of the "reactive" frameworks. I rewrote multi-megabyte vue thing to 400-500 lines of vanilla-js/jquery a couple years back.
billymg: punkman: that was my intuition just going by the people who were pushing it
punkman: alpinejs, you just drop a <script> tag and it works. no build,compile,transpile crap.
punkman: although trying to figure out how to write "current" vanilla js is a challenge
punkman: how many fucking ways do you need to define a function
billymg: lol i thought there were still only two ways
punkman: no no, we really needed this way to write functions: () => a + b
punkman: makes total sense
punkman: I think they copied it in PHP 8
billymg: i like arrow functions, makes it more "functional" and lisp-like
billymg: (a,b) => a + b vs. (lambda (a b) (+ a b)) vs. old school js: function myFunc(a, b) { return a +b; }
billymg: can't remember if you can even do anonymous functions with the function keyword in js
billymg: hm, i guess you can
verisimilitude: The word ``scribbler'' is obviously related to ``scribe'' related to the Latin SCRĪBERE.
mats: its going to be amazing when the fed stops buying mortgage bonds in june
mats: consider going a little into cash
signpost: mmmmhm
verisimilitude: What's that article explaining how Bitcoin helps an apple seller against cartels?
verisimilitude: I wish to criticize it.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-14#1102507 << loox interesting. asciilifeform traditionally used an older tool, 'meld', but the latter only eats text
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-14 12:42:41 signpost: current lulz there involve sifting through builds of gcc with diffoscope investigating causes of bit-churn.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-14 13:25:21 punkman: but looking PHP stuff, seems like they have gone full enterprise-java-mode
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-17 14:44:23 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: difficult to object to this, asciilifeform a++ in favour of over9000x moar of this behaviour, what else could possibly stand a chance of curing ru, cn, et al from reich shitware
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-17 14:46:24 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: well yes. using shitware per se needs to become over9000x moar painful. so from asciilifeform's pov a liquishit lib that suddenly 'rm -rf /' is a win.
asciilifeform: signpost: does 'diffoscope' show character-wise diffs? ('meld' does)
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-14#1102515 << replaced 'blm'. next yr expect it'll be sumthing yet else
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-14 13:16:30 punkman: browsing random software docs and seeing Ukraine banners everywhere, how did this become a thing
asciilifeform: pretty good 'leper's bell' heuristic btw. ctrl-w.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-14#1102528 << fwiw asciilifeform sees 'jsquery' etc in exactly same light as the 400MB thing
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-14 13:42:39 punkman: billymg: vue seemed as horrible as any of the "reactive" frameworks. I rewrote multi-megabyte vue thing to 400-500 lines of vanilla-js/jquery a couple years back.
verisimilitude: The ``solution'' chosen, asciilifeform, is always to merely avoid JavaScript or whatnot, and to use the trustworthy software, as this still avoids needing to verify anything.
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