Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2022-05-05 | 2022-05-07 → ↓
crtdaydreams: signpost: that's rough man, my condolences and best wishes to you and your family
signpost: meanwhile unfortunately for now presented without much comment, but http://trinque.org/src/pentacle.tar.gz http://trinque.org/src/pentacle.tar.gz.asc
signpost: I think the bootstrap-debian.sh script oughta work on *any* system with a posix shell, but would be interested to hear otherwise.
signpost: I have a wip script for dulap (which isn't much more than hacking off the "debroot" steps at the top of ^
signpost: challenge with starting from dulap is you do already need a working gnat, and I've had one hell of a time each time I've tried to switch to another gnat version, or another system, for bootstrap.
signpost: if some of the recent n00bs want to help, it'd be interesting to write a bootstrap-slackware.sh which replaces debootstrap with untarring tgz from whichever slackware had gnat-2016 bins
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-01-16#1073481 << when this mission's complete, wouldn't it be interesting if one bootstrap environment produced bins with something different from another?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-01-16 19:56:04 signpost: dragged the thing closer also to binary-reproducible builds, removed a few sources of bit-churn. more yet to find and smash.
signpost: once you folks have bootstrapped, you'll have a statically linked userland in "target" which you can chroot into.
signpost: read /target/src/pbuild; it's very short, and will explain quite a lot.
signpost: the dependency system you find in there only cares about build-time dependencies since static linking is the default.
signpost: plenty of other things to explain; I'll be reworking my old OS series into a post on this when I can.
signpost: oh, and... give this a try when you're in there: /src/pbuild install bitcoind
signpost: proper release will have pentacle's own source living in the src tree with everything else, at /src/v/pentacle/{patches,seals}
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-04-21#1097721 << this ran into its own problems, so I stayed with gnat-2016/gcc-4.9.4
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-04-21 00:00:52 signpost: meanwhile upgraded to gnat-2017, because this didn't require any patching to target musl. removed a shitload of nasty patch cruft I'd accumulated tilting at the gnat-2016 windmill.
signpost: JOBS=16 ./bootstrap-debian.sh << can build in parallel during the second (self-build) phase with this. I'm not currently passing it to the first build because there's some bug which causes the gnat RTS to not install properly.
signpost: alrighty, thanks again for the kind words y'all. hitting the hay.
whaack: signpost: i am so sorry to read that, wishing the best for you and your family
shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-06#1100224 << decided to try on an Ubuntu 4.19 server I have, bitches about 'pushd' and 'shopt' missing unless I modify the shebang to use bash instead of sh.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-06 01:08:20 signpost: I think the bootstrap-debian.sh script oughta work on *any* system with a posix shell, but would be interested to hear otherwise.
shinohai: (Failing of Ubuntu though, nothing to do with Pentacle)
signpost: shinohai: ah, does ubuntu also map /bin/sh to dash?
shinohai: signpost: retardedly, yes
shinohai: The weird to me was `echo $SHELL` returns /bin/bash but still flat out ignores it.
signpost: I'll go ahead and swap the shebangs for bootstrap scripts to bash then, ty
shinohai: Aside from that appears to be running fine, mine is on the building gcc step atm. Will report back in when done (or hit any other errors).
signpost: yeah, first build takes quite a while since parallelism is only used in stage two, when it does rm /var/pentacle/world and rebuilds everything
signpost: I'm going to meanwhile try another parallel stage 1 build from debian and see whether that bug still happens.
signpost has hit every kind of autoconf or otherwise build-related bug imaginable during this project.
verisimilitude: Don't be so hopeful, signpost; that implies there be no more remaining.
signpost: lol, perhaps I should be more imaginative.
verisimilitude: Yes, I also considered mentioning a lack of imagination.
verisimilitude: I've purchased a new stool that arrived today.
signpost: other things that would be useful to double-check: are the debs I included identical to ones found in debian 9.0? are the keys I provided in target/src/wot identical to ones expected for the named individuals?
signpost: verisimilitude: the one I linked?
verisimilitude: I didn't get the motion stool, but a related product from that manufacturer.
verisimilitude: The motion stool didn't look suited to carpet.
verisimilitude: It's reasonably nice, but now I need a new desk.
signpost: does fine on my thick carpet actually.
verisimilitude: My current desk is now too cramped.
signpost: but in either case I've been happy with that manufacturer
verisimilitude: Oh. Well, I also figured I'd be able to get a view on a different product, for the others.
signpost: I have their desk also, damned sturdy
verisimilitude: I suppose I could've asked, now that I consider it.
signpost: I've gotten into the (hilarious) hammock that came with it, then had it lift me up and down.
verisimilitude: Life is too long to always do the reasonable action.
verisimilitude: My stool is the ``Starling Stool''.
verisimilitude: I'll look into their desks; tell me more, signpost.
signpost: shinohai: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=LYJz << yeah, I tried another parallel stage-1 build and the RTS didn't install, seems like.
signpost: verisimilitude: pretty unsurprising "standing desk", just built quite sturdy, and I was happy with the desktop material also.
signpost: no wobble in the chassis.
verisimilitude: Alright.
asciilifeform last yr installed 'airlift s3' mechanized legs under desk, but, lol, only lifts when motor 'helped' with both hands, has far too much mass bolted to it
asciilifeform: ... and these were the 'liftiest' legs was able to find, lol
verisimilitude: Say, asciilifeform, care for an Ada question?
verisimilitude: I've updated my library lately.
verisimilitude: I've an echo server there, and noticed something queer.
verisimilitude: I passed a false Truncate_Length argument in a modified version, and then sent a larger packet size.
verisimilitude: It should've ignored it, but died instead. The exception handling looks correct, however.
verisimilitude: So, the fourteenth line becomes ``I := Recvfrom(F, A, S, Truncate_Length => False);'' causing a potential exception from A(1 .. I) on the fifteenth line.
verisimilitude: The length is set correctly, but it just dies in the Sendto.
asciilifeform: hm what's sendto have to do with it ?
verisimilitude: Well, I was using strace to avoid using GDB.
verisimilitude: The Recvfrom returns is the point, I suppose.
asciilifeform: well you have in recvfrom if I = -1 then raise Recvfrom_Error; else return Size_T(I); end if; so returns with the actual size neh
asciilifeform: which is bigger than the buffer you allocated in the echo thing
asciilifeform: there dies
asciilifeform: where's the surprise?
verisimilitude: I thought ``when others => null;'' would handle this and allow the loop to continue.
asciilifeform: lemme guess, dies w/ Constraint_Error ?
verisimilitude: It dies with nothing.
verisimilitude: That's suspicious, isn't it?
asciilifeform: paste the strace ?
verisimilitude: I'll need to login to the machine; give me several minutes.
asciilifeform: ah hm yer eating the exception neh
asciilifeform: so exits
verisimilitude: Yes, but shouldn't the outer loop continue?
verisimilitude: I checked my book, and thought ``when others => null;'' is how to prevent exception propagation.
asciilifeform: there's only 1 loop there neh
verisimilitude: If that be the case, I'm going to feel stupid.
asciilifeform: you fughot the outer loop
verisimilitude: Yes, laugh at me; I deserve it.
asciilifeform: tsk btw re 'when others'. eat the expected exception, leave errything else alone
asciilifeform: ( wouldja want silent death if e.g. bind fails ? why ? )
verisimilitude: It's a toy.
verisimilitude: It doesn't even log.
verisimilitude: I'll invert the block and loop.
asciilifeform: in toy in particular you want useful eggogs
asciilifeform: so as to learn where breaks
verisimilitude: No, I was going to fuck this up regardless, apparently.
verisimilitude: I was excited to discuss programming here again, so I didn't check as well as I should've.
verisimilitude: I'll try to be less silly in the future.
verisimilitude: On the bright side, this means the library works, at least here.
shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-06#1100271 << mine still churning away, had stepped afk for a bit but hasn't had anymore issues yet
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-06 14:10:16 signpost: shinohai: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=LYJz << yeah, I tried another parallel stage-1 build and the RTS didn't install, seems like.
signpost: cool
signpost: hot damn
signpost: thanks for trying it out.
shinohai: Gonna try copying the root fs to my heathen gentoo and chrooting
shinohai also intends to try building it on said heathen Gentoo ...
shinohai: This is a++ work signpost ... all the "every day carry" tools, all statically built with hardly any fuss.
shinohai imagines signpost's beard increased 6-7 inches during this exercise .....
thimbronion: shinohai, signpost I've downloaded pentacle but I'm not entirely sure how to go about testing it out. Tried running bootstrap-debian.sh on an Ubuntu variant and got: Incomplete build found at: /home/awt/projects/pentacle/debroot
shinohai: thimbronion: run the clean script
shinohai: (At least I had to when `press-bootstrap-patches.sh` failed due to aforementioned shell issue)
whaack: !e uptime
trbexplorer: whaack: time since my last reconnect : 83d 2h 47m
whaack: !e view-height
trbexplorer: block_height: 735188
trbexplorer: mins_since_last_block: 168
thimbronion: shinohai: ah ok yeah replacing sh with bash worked for me too
whaack: !w probe
watchglass: Syntax: probe HOST [PORT]
whaack: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 15 nodes...
watchglass: 205.134.172.26:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 82.79.58.192:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.099s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735188 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.097s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735188
watchglass: 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735188
watchglass: 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=735188 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.143s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735188
watchglass: 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.287s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735188 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.261s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=735188
watchglass: 94.176.238.102:8333 : (2ppf.s.time4vps.cloud) Alive: (0.247s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=734613
watchglass: 75.106.222.93:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.627s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=734974
watchglass: 103.6.212.28:8333 : Alive: (0.867s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=575594 (Operator: whaack)
whaack: trb stuck at 735188, heathen blox reporting 735206
watchglass: 143.202.160.10:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
watchglass: 205.134.172.6:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-06#1100330 << born of rage the last time ave1's thing fell apart in my hands. glad it's working!
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-06 15:47:09 shinohai: This is a++ work signpost ... all the "every day carry" tools, all statically built with hardly any fuss.
signpost: also, say you want a dulap chroot. why the hell not have a pbuild that lays one down. I do not intend to tell people what to have on their machine.
signpost: would be best to gradually port things over, but there is no reason at all to tell people what to run in their own house.
signpost will continue working on getting pentacle onto bare iron without a host distro.
signpost: got lilo already in there, and the included kernel builds with the supplied 4.9.4 gcc
signpost: busybox ships with gettys, runit, etc
signpost: so the parts are there.
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-06#1100332 << yeah, I would swap the shebangs to /bin/bash as shinohai did, given the plurality of opinions on what /bin/sh shall be on a given distro
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-06 15:52:52 thimbronion: shinohai, signpost I've downloaded pentacle but I'm not entirely sure how to go about testing it out. Tried running bootstrap-debian.sh on an Ubuntu variant and got: Incomplete build found at: /home/awt/projects/pentacle/debroot
signpost: did I accidentally include a debroot in the tarball?
signpost: nah. but I will re-upload with bash shebangs.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-06 01:17:56 signpost: oh, and... give this a try when you're in there: /src/pbuild install bitcoind
signpost: awesome.
shinohai: Removing /tmp/build/bitcoind.OBEahB
shinohai: bitcoind 03e4d4970c2adbf239382c5233939c5217cd388a372e9e3962d670de16b68795 installed.
signpost: /src/pbuild work bitcoind << the work command dumps a pressed copy of the given vtree at e.g. /src/work/bitcoind
signpost: convenient way to modify and, say, produce a new vpatch for the item.
signpost: when there's a directory in /src/work, /src/pbuild install $item will use /src/work/$item instead of doing a press.
signpost: I use that during bootstrap to avoid needing an existing copy of vtools
shinohai: Might add `strip` to end of trb pbuild, resulting build still contains debug symbols (which some may want)
signpost: seems like a good use of a use-flag
signpost: uses strip && strip bitcoind
signpost: something lik ethat
signpost: *like
shinohai: Sounds proper.
thimbronion: and ... my cat killed the build
signpost: see, that was the build failure my imagination couldn't conjure earlier.
verisimilitude: Eventually, at this rate, we won't be able to tell the cat apart from thimbronion.
verisimilitude: It's not enough to prove a program correct; one must also prove the correct program be put in the machine properly.
verisimilitude: It's a more fun flavour of failure when I enter a machine code program subtly mistakenly; in a high-level language, it's just terrible.
whaack: !e view-height
trbexplorer: block_height: 735223
trbexplorer: mins_since_last_block: 3
billymg: whaack: i noticed on the crawler a day or so ago all the trb nodes stuck at like 133XXX (i wanna say 133411 or around there) when prb was well into the 134XXX range
billymg: re: your note above
bitbot: Logged on 2022-05-06 20:04:42 whaack: trb stuck at 735188, heathen blox reporting 735206
whaack: billymg: yes trb nodes consistently netsplit from heathen tip
billymg: ah, so i just haven't noticed much before
whaack: yeah it happens once every 1-2 weeks or so afaik, it may be worth keeping an actual log of this
billymg: might be something worth time series charting on the crawler www now that i think about it (trb distance behind prb)
billymg: lol btw was searching twitter the other day for bitdash.io mentions (out of vanity, purely) and saw this: https://twitter.com/raw_avocado/status/1489280497540902919
billymg: !. seen-anywhere raw_avocado
shinohai: That dude is such a tool.
billymg: yeah now seeing that seen-anywhere response i think i get it
billymg: he didn't get the updoots he was looking for here for his geiger rng so he switched to talking shit about trb instead
verisimilitude: I'd forgotten about him.
shinohai: I spent like a week almost in DMs explaining how to trb, was worse than the Eulora noobz I did ~same for because "already knows it all" but still needs your help.
shinohai: Of course twitter strictly for trolling and shitposting anyway, so no surprise.
verisimilitude: Oh man, we're going to be on Youtube guys.
verisimilitude: I hate idiots who do this.
verisimilitude: A bunch of people go out of their way to avoid the megacorporations, and some jackass decides they can be his topic of study for tithing to the megacorporations.
verisimilitude: I didn't like the book, but this is how ``Brave New World'' ends.
signpost: this was from last year. also stop reading twitter.
verisimilitude: I took a glance because it was linked.
shinohai: vargvikernes.jpg
signpost: addressing everyone, stahp.
signpost: sorry... (clears throat)
signpost: Thy vulgar regurgitations of social media effluence doth affront mine ears.
signpost: clearer?
thimbronion: bitcoind 53e8c3c3c64bab5794c22b17a04352d311840bc68e8ae1d74f637bd35968de83 installed.
signpost: thimbronion: neato!
signpost also has an emacs in there
signpost: thimbronion: interesting that you and shinohai got different hashes for your bitcoind builds. b00g.
signpost probably needs to sort the list of files that get hashed. bet that's depending on on-disk order.
thimbronion: was wondeirng about that
signpost: target/src/scripts/world.sh#36 find $FIND_STARTING_POINT -type f | sort
signpost: ^ adding that sort oughta make them uniform. I've done so locally
signpost: bitcoind 0775cb2ccc737e224806beeb4978bff59ca0db6f2be7b55c03d08efefb055859 installed. << got this after adding "| sort" and doing /src/pbuild install bitcoind --nodeps --rebuild
thimbronion: Doesn't seem to be an emacs inside the chroot env
signpost: gotta "/src/pbuild install emacs" to get it.
signpost: bootstrap only installs what's required to rebuild the compiler
verisimilitude: Yes, that was clearer, signpost.
thimbronion: wrt twatter I'm fine not poasting in here. I will say that so far I've met 3 interesting people IRL from there.
thimbronion: Actually 4
verisimilitude: I primarily use Twitter through Nitter RSS, because too many artists left to it from Tumblr.
phf: i've added custom support for twitter to my rss reader, and pull the rss via nitter.net interface. lets me read a handful of accounts without having to drink from the hose
thimbronion: I used nitter for a while but something broke and I wasn't able to get it working again
verisimilitude: I've noticed something mildly interesting: It's becoming more common for idiots in forums to link to Twitter for topics.
signpost: just giving y'all shit. read what you want.
verisimilitude: How long, I wonder, will it be until these people start taking photographs of their colons and telling others to discuss those?
signpost: just good to keep in mind what the incentives and "dark patterns" are on those things.
phf: i read twitter for gandalf the hwite :>
verisimilitude: I've had to switch instances multiple times, thimbronion.
signpost: emacs f447c055b2d912ef35b27f6d4214c428e715fe99c88e7ed292863603de91c2b3 installed. << emacs hash I get with the |sort fix
signpost has often found himself suddenly looking up from phone, "how the fuck did I just use twitter for an hour?"
verisimilitude: Oh, so the opium addict thought to give me advice on my poppy seed bagel, did he?
signpost: you're far too preoccupied with identity and perceived status.
signpost keeps the social turds off his phone so that "oh I'm just laughing at the idiots" doesn't sneakily become something else.
signpost: as it's designed to do.
verisimilitude: I don't disagree.
signpost afk for a bit
shinohai: signpost: Adding your sort fix to world.sh and rebuild of bitcoind gives matching hash
shinohai: bitcoind 0775cb2ccc737e224806beeb4978bff59ca0db6f2be7b55c03d08efefb055859 installed.
thimbronion: With the sort change: bitcoind 0775cb2ccc737e224806beeb4978bff59ca0db6f2be7b55c03d08efefb055859 installed.
signpost: cool!
asciilifeform could be the last remaining who never once saw anyffin memorable imho on twatter. well maybe with the exception of rainier joswig's bolix screenshots, back when couldn't run the thing on own desk
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-05-06#1100462 << oh hmm did signpost defuse the boobytrap in gcc where impossible to deterministically link ? neato
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-05-06 21:49:33 thimbronion: With the sort change: bitcoind 0775cb2ccc737e224806beeb4978bff59ca0db6f2be7b55c03d08efefb055859 installed.
verisimilitude: How could GCC be non-deterministic; does it call an RNG or use loosely-initialized values?
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: prng
asciilifeform: seeded with, among other crapola, file timestamps
verisimilitude: Oh, that's not an exaggeration; they do use an RNG of a sorts?
signpost: asciilifeform: defused a few sources of churn, like __DATE__ __TIME__ and -frandom-seed, and I've got a WIP patch to make the linker "spec" (iirc) not contain a timestamp.
verisimilitude: Well, how queer.
asciilifeform: signpost: very nifty
signpost: but that hash is of a concatenation of the build-file and other sources.
signpost: and then there will eventually be a mapping of that to expected binary output hash.
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