Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2022-03-13 | 2022-03-15 → ↓
asciilifeform: $ticker btc usd
busybot: Current BTC price in USD: $38902.92
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 15 nodes...
watchglass: 205.134.172.26:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.081s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=727311
watchglass: 71.191.220.241:8333 : (pool-71-191-220-241.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.097s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=727311 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.084s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=727311 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.172s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=727311
watchglass: 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.083s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=727311
watchglass: 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.150s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=727311
watchglass: 94.176.238.102:8333 : Could not connect!
watchglass: 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.083s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=727311 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 54.38.94.63:8333 : (ns3140226.ip-54-38-94.eu) Alive: (0.262s) V=88888 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.8.88.88/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=727311
watchglass: 82.79.58.192:8333 : (static-82-79-58-192.rdsnet.ro) Alive: (0.382s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=727311
watchglass: 103.6.212.28:8333 : Alive: (0.550s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=260011 (Operator: whaack)
watchglass: 103.36.92.112:8333 : (terebe.ns01.net) Alive: (0.299s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=727312
watchglass: 75.106.222.93:8333 : Alive: (0.412s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=727311
watchglass: 143.202.160.10:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 100 sec.)
PeterL: I'm thinking I am going to stop scoopbot here and just have it reporting in #pest
asciilifeform: PeterL: ideally in both, but if impractical, better in #p
PeterL: I guess I can leave it running here too for now
verisimilitude: I found this, but still barely understand what it's trying to be: http://csr.bu.edu/rina/index.html
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: loox like a rather snoarworthy academitardism in '90s style
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: for a working/industrial example of subj, see e.g. erlang.
dulapbot: Logged on 2020-08-12 18:28:11 asciilifeform: edef: outta curiosity, are you familiar with 'erlang' and its 'mnesia' db ?
verisimilitude: I'd not made that connection. I know an Erlang programmer who likes it.
asciilifeform: afaik the only extant item which actually delivered on the 'transparent ipc' thing
asciilifeform: and almost 3decade ago, at that
verisimilitude: I found this RINA while reading someone involved with the Internet bemoan its broken nature.
verisimilitude: Well, bemoaning.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: observe how 'bemoaners' ~never point to working examples from '70s-'90s, of ~anything
verisimilitude: That's a very good point. I wasn't thinking of Chaosnet at all while reading about this.
verisimilitude: I tried to download the source code for this RINA, but the page is a form for me to give them an e-mail address so they can send it manually.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: the 'why' is simple -- over8999 outta over9000 times the 'bemoaners' are pushing a bluehairism of some kind
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: academitards ~never share working src. because typically there aint one (if there's anyffin resembling a proggy -- it's a pile of rigged demo bullshit which shits out the charts that go into the paper liquishit, rarely anyffin moar)
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: one could easily spend whole life digging in papers and failing to find ~any actually working examples of ~any of the claimed 'progresses'.
asciilifeform almost did.
asciilifeform: once you realize that academitards aint actually trying to 'move field forward', but rather carrying out a grotesque religious ritual -- very easy to stop.
asciilifeform: consider how e.g. a catholic church aint a pub, even tho on sundays hands out a token qty of food and wine. similarly modern university aint a research org in any useful (to outsider) sense.
asciilifeform: simply anuther kind of church , with over9000x moar funding
PeterL: your field is messed up
asciilifeform: PeterL: which 1 healthy ?
verisimilitude: Finance is certainly healthy.
signpost: depends on what one considers the function of finance.
asciilifeform: from the pov of the perps -- for whom 'function' is 'keep the yachts afloat' -- never been healthier
signpost: dunno, I think we're approaching parasite-kills-host
signpost: though perhaps best times for the parasite are just before this.
asciilifeform: patient may have week to live, but if one asks the basketball-sized tumour -- 'a++ healthy'
verisimilitude: It sure would be nice to receive funding for research, though.
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: it aint a 'fountain of dough' tho, but typically a rather abject kind of whoring
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-03-10 12:24:59 asciilifeform: whaack: seems like crt was looking for 'magick fountain of dough' tho, rather than a salt mine job. much taller order.
verisimilitude: Sure, but I mean the fountain of dough.
asciilifeform: ( e.g. wage of tenured prof at asciilifeform's old uni, is approx same as of entry level grunt in typical salt mine)
verisimilitude: I just remember being told ``Maybe you'll find a place to talk with other smart people like you.'' and responding ``That's what college was supposed to be.''.
billymg: !c net-summary
crawlerbot: Bitcoin Network (IPv4 Nodes Active Within the Last 48 hours) Global: 8576; TRB-Compatible: 61; TRB: 14
crawlerbot: TRB-Compatible by Country: United States: 23; Canada: 5; Singapore: 4; Romania: 4; South Africa: 3; Italy: 2; France: 2; Germany: 2; Russia: 2; Lithuania: 1; Norway: 1; Saudi Arabia: 1; Australia: 1; Chile: 1; Belgium: 1; Spain: 1; Ukraine: 1; Netherlands: 1; Bulgaria: 1; Mexico: 1; United Arab Emirates: 1; United Kingdom: 1; South Korea: 1;
crawlerbot: TRB by Country: United States: 8; Canada: 1; Romania: 1; Singapore: 1; Lithuania: 1; France: 1; Norway: 1;
billymg: i figured out the problem with the global count, and it pissed me off when i found out why the count was slowly increasing
asciilifeform: billymg: noades w/ dynamic ip ?
billymg: i set up a test script to run the query every 60 seconds, and it indeed would slowly drift higher from the true count
billymg: asciilifeform: nope, i suspect something weird under the hood in psycopg2: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Lp4b
billymg: that's my test script, i tried to mimic the relavent bits of the bot code as much as possible, that's why there's more there than needs to be
billymg: but note the commented out version of the query vs the active one
asciilifeform: hm if bug, not obv from the paste
billymg: the commented out version is what i was doing previously, using postgres's 'now()'
billymg: i was looking for nodes where difference between now and 'last_alive' was less than 48hrs (172800 seconds)
billymg: i suspect that in psycopg2, or somewhere else, the 'now()' was getting cached
billymg: that's the only conclusion i can draw from this test. because that query by itself in psql works fine every time
thimbronion: I wonder if erlang would be a good lang in which to implement a pestron.
thimbronion: totally forgot about it
signpost: cool idea there might be IPC over pest between erlang instances
verisimilitude: The Erlang programmer whom I know wasn't interested, but I can ask again.
signpost: fuck buterin's world computer, you know?
asciilifeform: thimbronion: traditionally erlang 'wins' for distributed processes / db; so not particularly, afaik. tho no reason wai not, if someone concretely an enthusiast of subj
asciilifeform would rather see a clean commonlisp pestron, fwiw
verisimilitude: Would a single-threaded Pest implementation work well?
asciilifeform: verisimilitude: depends what means 'work well', if you can in fact handle your particular max line rate on 1 cpu, then sure
billymg: !c net-summary
crawlerbot: Bitcoin Network (IPv4 Nodes Active Within the Last 48 hours) Global: 8179; TRB-Compatible: 61; TRB: 14
crawlerbot: TRB-Compatible by Country: United States: 23; Canada: 5; Singapore: 4; Romania: 4; South Africa: 3; Italy: 2; France: 2; Germany: 2; Russia: 2; Lithuania: 1; Norway: 1; Saudi Arabia: 1; Australia: 1; Chile: 1; Belgium: 1; Spain: 1; Ukraine: 1; Netherlands: 1; Bulgaria: 1; Mexico: 1; United Arab Emirates: 1; United Kingdom: 1; South Korea: 1;
crawlerbot: TRB by Country: United States: 8; Canada: 1; Romania: 1; Singapore: 1; Lithuania: 1; France: 1; Norway: 1;
billymg: anyway, fixed by working around what i suspect is a bug, or at least a malimplementation, in psycopg2
signpost: billymg: multiple calls of now() in the same db transaction?
signpost: those will indeed return the same value
billymg: signpost: are they in the same transaction though?
verisimilitude: s/will/should/
signpost: billymg: don't recall what the default transaction behavior is with psycopg2
signpost: the `with` statement starts one for you, commits at end of block
signpost: iirc default is otherwise autocommit, so it'd be unexpected to get the same now() for different queries.
billymg: signpost: you could be right about the open transaction thing, i'm looking at this now: https://www.psycopg.org/docs/faq.html#problems-with-transactions-handling
billymg: i figured doing a cursor.close() in between queries would be enough, but maybe not
billymg: also when i looked up the docs for 'commit' and 'rollback' it looked like those were for write operations (and i'm only doing a select)
signpost: right, but if something's opening a transaction for you at the beginning in your actual bot code, could possibly cause this.
signpost: you only really need to use explicit transactions when you need atomicity over multiple queries; otherwise you're just incurring additional overhead
billymg: signpost: "explicit" meaning "discrete" or "manually opened/closed"?
signpost: manual, as opposed to autocommit
billymg: in this usecase it seems to me like i don't (shouldn't) need to manually manage transactions. i want a simple COUNT(*) of a table where entries meet a certain criteria
billymg: i.e. when '!c net-summary' is run the results should be for that moment in time, having nothing to do with the last time it was run
billymg: so i think you're saying i should be using 'autocommit'
billymg: so that each time the query is run, it's in a new transaction
signpost: yeah something to try
signpost: (if I was wrong and the default isn't already autocommit)
billymg: but that adds overhead, or no?
signpost: nah, being in manual transactions when you don't need them does
billymg: ah ok
signpost: forces the database to keep forked worlds alive until the connected client does commit/rollback/disconnect
billymg: yeah, possibly autocommit was not the default for me, given the behavior i was seeing with 'now()'
signpost: "By default, Psycopg opens a transaction before executing the first command: if commit() is not called, the effect of any data manipulation will be lost."
signpost: when I used this, it was as part of django for a big webturd. https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/4.0/topics/db/transactions/
signpost: which was apparently changing the default behavior to autocommit
signpost: so cool, that explains.
billymg: sweet, re-running my test script with autocommit to confirm
billymg: ty for the explanation
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