asciilifeform: graham ? mega-surprise, fella who made $bil in spy biz (and not the stodgy old one, what with manufacturing hidden microphones etc, but the wet dream of the '50s mengeles, get folx to inform on ~themselves~ while smiling...) defends spying.
asciilifeform: from 'technology of ruling' pov, whole post-war 20th c was one continuous thrust in that direction. i.e. the rulers on some level realized that 'resting on bayonets' is dead end, not because doesn't work (can work for many yrs at a stretch) but because the threat ever hangs , that the fucked-with will find a way to strike back, and give you a 1917.
asciilifeform: whereas if you can steal their 'having been stolen from', i.e. convert the victims into 'bonsai kittens' who lack the very concept of the thing you stole, then, then, you have again the 'divine right of king' (the original, from their pov -- sadly lost -- brain hack)
asciilifeform: this is the common thread of all the wankeries, from usa's cia excursions into psychotropic dope, to arsebook et al, to mp's fantasies of 'ride into the peasant village, choose from the ripe daughters of the grateful churls' etc
asciilifeform: these folx are born with hardcoded conviction that you are nonperson. but have permanent itch in their arse , for so long as you haven't ~agreed~
snsabot: Logged on 2020-05-13 09:48:38 asciilifeform: jurov: be sure to let yer customers know they weren't stolen from, but rather 'condemned to confiscation by the sovereign'.
asciilifeform: so they set up arsebooks, or more refined variants. this 'work', it is imho even wrong to dignify with the phrase 'spy biz', spying is entirely honorable weapon of war. this aint 'spying' so much as project to convert man into cattle.
asciilifeform: that in recent history folx who formerly specialized in spying, have been at the forefront of this effort, is happenstance.
asciilifeform: (the gateses, buffets, mps, will cheerfully tell you that 'there's nothing to convert, people already cattle' but this is entirely analogous to 'i ain't killed him, officer, he was already dead'. i.e. 'already cattle' because of 70+y of well-organized lobotomization. )
trinque: hear hear.
trinque: and no amount of pompous bellowing about untermenschen is going to repair it.
trinque: "oh, you hate me too? join the club."
trinque: this is actually what I respect about diana_coman's approach; she's put together a school.
asciilifeform: trinque: i gotta admit, thus far not very impressed. but it aint my biz.
asciilifeform: there's an islamic madras in my town. i don't go there either to say 'god dun exist , haha'
asciilifeform: but i also 'i gotta respect, after all they organized a school'..
asciilifeform: *also don't
asciilifeform: ( and if i were -- would much sooner find the madras impressive, it's 100x bigger than diana's , and the curriculum makes a little more sense.. )
trinque: would rather take a step back and point out that all revolutions need to figure out what to do with the new generation, or they're not a revolution at all
asciilifeform: trinque: i have a rather pessimistic view, i admit, of revolutions
asciilifeform: not familiar with even 1 example where it wasn't saddled by a napoleon/lenin/etc in the end.
asciilifeform: (e.g. in sovok school, there's -- unsurprisingly -- 9000x moar said re lenin et al, than about the 1e5 soldiers who realized in '17 that bullets work just as well on the officers who sent'em to die for brit & french empires as on the 'enemy'. these, made 'revolution', but promptly ridden. )
asciilifeform: incidentally there's a very similar, if abortive, episode in usa's vietnam, 'fragging'
asciilifeform: quite possibly is the real reason they wrapped up 'nam
asciilifeform: trinque, upstack -- you might be surprised, but asciilifeform in fact reads the diana et al communiques , their chan, etc. in just about real time. would ~like~ to say 'impressed, mega-productive factory of nietzchean supermen with iron will' , but cannot say this, because it aint there. all i see thus far is cargo cult.
asciilifeform: 'you missed report deadline, now penance, 17 hail marys'
adlai: at least they don't have to put 50 btc in the collection box just to enter the church
asciilifeform: it inescapably reminds me of the vaguely buddhist-flavoured 'personal training' services that were popular in 1990s ru
asciilifeform: adlai: the folx who only blew 50btc, i'd argue, are better off. coin, you can potentially make again. time, cannot. (and the deformation of personality that goes on in a serious cult, is sometimes irreversible.)
trinque: you know, I ran a software shop for about ten years.
asciilifeform: hm i thought trinque even now ran one
trinque: it's a lot easier to shape people's heads when you're there in person, and you all eat together
trinque: I sold it.
asciilifeform: had nfi that sold
asciilifeform: and defo can picture that worx 9000x better in meat. there's a reason monasteries aint 'tele-work'.
asciilifeform: trinque: if it aint mega-seekrit: why'dja sell it ?
trinque: was just in a business I don't want to spend the rest of my life in, and an exit presented itself
trinque: will almost certainly fart up another at some point
asciilifeform worked for many yrs for a fella who opened, sold, opened, sold... never could sell for enuff $ to be able to 100% stop, but erry time 'here's how we'll all finally getrich' etc
trinque: imho it's only worth doing if it's something you want to do every day, and not because of future skypie
asciilifeform: some folx end up making a religion outta the 'pie'.
asciilifeform 'prayed' in that 'church' for long time. but lost 'faith'. was no longer able to see a palpable diff b/w it, and the worker bees who show up to the local liquor shop to buy 5 lottery tickets erry morning..
asciilifeform: thinkin' about it in depth -- the weakness of cults aint that they're not an effective form of organization, from pov of command vertical. rather effective. the weakness is that even nominally clever fuhrer is stuck ordering disciples to do stupid shit, to 'show devotion'. whether it's self-flagellation, 'mortification of flesh', or using mysql, php, etc. the pathology is ultimately same.
asciilifeform: the aztec warriors, i'm certain, felt quite '133337' putting thorns through their cocks. didn't seem to help against spain tho.
asciilifeform meanwhile, finally unraveled that perl atrocity. turns out, it gets fucked if you have .ali barfs shat by emacs ada-mode into source dir . if these are removed, worx...
snsabot: Logged on 2020-05-16 19:24:22 asciilifeform: and, being in perl, ~undebuggable
asciilifeform still would like to patch 'gnathtml' to make ~all~, rather than some, lines linkable
asciilifeform: wtf was the orig author thinking.
asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 11 nodes...
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.082s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=630752
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : Alive: (0.063s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=630752 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Alive: (0.114s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=630752
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.138s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=630752 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : Alive: (0.167s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=630752
watchglass: 220.127.116.11:8333 : Alive: (0.236s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=630752
watchglass: 18.104.22.168:8333 : Alive: (0.360s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=630752
watchglass: 22.214.171.124:8333 : (rev-188-121-168-69.radiolan.sk) Alive: (0.444s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=630752
watchglass: 126.96.36.199:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.)
watchglass: 188.8.131.52:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.)
watchglass: 184.108.40.206:8333 : Busy? (No answer in 20 sec.)
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