Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
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asciilifeform: in dc ; plugged in box for $redacted; plox to test.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Aite, will test in a bit
BingoBoingo: Welcome mike_c
mike_c: hello!
BingoBoingo: mike_c: So while you were gone MP went from valuing the silent reserves as something like people to instead valuing the folks silent for families and such reasons instead as somewhere between honeycomb tripe and the other three stomach's lesser flavors of tripe.
mike_c: yeah, it's not an unreasonable position.
mike_c: The more interesting question is what to do with someone you had a business relationship with that you now have negrated
mike_c: Of course, "relationship" with silent investors is a strong term, but still.
BingoBoingo: mike_c: In practice with Pizarro it ended up with regarding the negrated as the second to worst stomach's tripe. At the moment it is ambiguous.
BingoBoingo: Maybe the WoL thing and letting MP know which key attaches to your name may have been suboptimal in retrospect.
mike_c: I'm not hiding anything.
mike_c: You can't do business without knowing each other.
BingoBoingo: But the alternative to what I sent you is you take Qntra school and commit three publishable pieces a week for two years. Having been active te time I have, I don't see anything other than that or the proposal I dropped in the gpg past having better than coin flip odds.
mike_c: I am happy to have a conversation with those not negrated, or anyone about the situation. I'm not going to hire you to represent me (but do honestly appreciate the offer), and I'm not yet willing to work my way back into the good graces of the realm.
mike_c: The question that stands now is what mp asked, what to do with the assets "owed" to what was a person in good standing, and now not for reasons of uninvolvement.
BingoBoingo: The thing is a lot of things happened in your period of uninvolvement like the entire history of an attempted ISP.
mike_c: I saw!
BingoBoingo: But for the lack of action after the seeing.... you've been written off as less than a person. It's a bit sad but that is how history unfolded.
mike_c: Seems to be. As mentioned awhile ago, it seemed unfitting to stay half-in.
mike_c: I may still come back, and did and still do believe I could work my way back in, but until then half measures are pretty worthless.
BingoBoingo: MP has also made it clear in the interim that the money doesn't particularly matter at all. The only argument that gets your coin can be made by someone he has rated 9, and the only argument that he will take seriously is submission to Republican power structures.
BingoBoingo: Every other argument fails for refusal to submit to Republican power structures.
mike_c: Well, like you said, it is a republic. So this seems like good case law.
mike_c: Could go either way, I'll be interested to see how it shakes out.
BingoBoingo: It's rather sad case law as I've come to enjoy the Roman law system.
mike_c: asciilifeform is still in good standing, fwiw, if it ends up "non-citizens get nothing" and the question then comes up "what to do with the coin", I propose give it to ascii for time served.
mike_c: founders get a tough end of the startup bargain
BingoBoingo: mike_c: I welcomed asciilifeform into my home this weekend for several consecutive days, but he fell out of the Lordship with S.NSA's unwind. I am open to an arrangement where the bulk of the coin ends up with asciilifeform.
mike_c: really? I did miss that part.
BingoBoingo: mike_c: I am open to make a deal out of anything, but the one non-negotiable is going to have to be a punative payment to someone MP rated 9
BingoBoingo: To demonstrate submission to Republican power structures.
BingoBoingo: I trust asciilifeform such that I sent him a copy of the pitch I sent you to satisfy his curiosity http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-12-18#1003887
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-18 14:28:56 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Here is why http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=KtOT and I know that you know why this is the one that works. I trust you not to spoil it.
mike_c: i'm looking up what happened where ascii got booted, if you have a link handy? otherwise I'll find it
BingoBoingo: It was a process over october. I'll try to find the exact link.
BingoBoingo: mike_c: Follows from http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-22#1947629 the dispute was asciilifeform doesn't want to take outside capital in his new venture, MP finds that suicidal for a world eating venture.
ossabot: (trilema) 2019-10-22 asciilifeform: diana_coman: moar in brief re expansions (will address pedantically in draft 2) -- they will have to be financed by actual revenue, and BingoBoingo-style auctions, i do not have massive capital (and what i have, is earmarked for physical irons, already ordered 'dulaps' and will be purchasing yet-moar of'em once it becomes clear that asciilifeform won't live alone in the rack)
BingoBoingo: FWIW I sent the box I bought at the Pizarro auction in asciilifeform's suitcase to his rack. i trust his hands.
mike_c: oh, yeah, I saw all that. I thought you were saying he got negrated. according to deedbot, he didn't.
BingoBoingo: mike_c: MP dropped him to +2 which takes him out of the lordship. Lordship in practice shifted from Deedbot +1 to MP +9
mike_c: hm
mike_c: ok - I am reconsidering your offer. Allow me a moment to think.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform is a good man, but per the rules of the forum he's not on the list of folks who can put forth remedies.
mike_c: I have also met ascii, and of course agree he's a good man. Otherwise would not have invested.
BingoBoingo: mike_c: Imma walk a bit. Do think. Yes it is a puzzle, but it is a puzzle you can win so long as you don't outright reject Republican power structures.
BingoBoingo: The biggest difference between now and the WOL era is the WoT mechanisms that let WoL list are now barriers to entering pleas and claims. Falling on the other side of the WoT barrier is also now the equivalent of being pork bellies stacked in a sausage factory.
BingoBoingo: It has been ~a year and a half that I've forseen someone falling into this misfortunate situation. I do regret that the test case is you, though later cases can only suffer still more misfortune. The screw turns one way.
trinque: curious how common law became republican precedent. was that before my time?
BingoBoingo: trinque: The inherited common law is not Republican precedent, but the mechanism that developed common law is how lords historically settled disputes.
BingoBoingo: Roman law is how you make cuts where the common folk are something else.
mike_c: BingoBoingo: I changed my mind, and my offer to hire you: I send you fee of 30 BTC (same amount the mpex account cost coincidentally). If you lose the case and I don't recover my dividend, you send 10 BTC to ascii (nothing to me). If you win and I do recover, then I send 10 BTC to ascii (and you keep the 30). in case of partial recovery, i dunno, we do something gentlemanly.
BingoBoingo: mike_c: Deal 15eVXAW7k8uKc5moDFUSc9Y3jmHFAenNXo
BingoBoingo headed out the door
mike_c: great, i'll warm up some wallet
asciilifeform: ohey mike_c , welcome to #a
asciilifeform: mike_c: what have you been up to ? didja strike it rich in the american racket ?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-12-19#1003902 << by default (see the handbuch) i assume folx dun want 'kiss and tell', so '$redacted'. but kudos to BingoBoingo for publicly waving flag. BingoBoingo i'ma still expect orders for reboot/etc to be signed tho. ( btw BingoBoingo yer box dun have run lights, so had to use airflow to see that it lives. and the disk tray screw came loose, had to open it to affix.)
snsabot: Logged on 2019-12-19 01:47:39 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Aite, will test in a bit
asciilifeform: mike_c: mp sacked me for insubordination ( summary from my pov here ; on mp's www he had whole novella-length flame , dun have the link handy atm ) in october '19
snsabot: Logged on 2019-11-08 20:15:06 asciilifeform: dorion: you may begin whenever you wish. ( yer time slot is still to 1600 . )
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-12-19#1003923 << fwiw i owed mp a chunk of coin at the time of sacking, and paid him. imho it's what oughta do -- 'i dun like yer face' doesn't enter into 'should i pay owed' , among serious folx
snsabot: Logged on 2019-12-19 02:18:47 mike_c: Well, like you said, it is a republic. So this seems like good case law.
trinque: to an extent. I wouldn't do this for someone that meant me harm.
asciilifeform: trinque: makes sense
asciilifeform: trinque: in my pov 'i dun like yer face, will take ball and go home' doesn't rise to 'mean harm'. so i have no enmity for mp. ( the 500kB of rant, or that apparently my ghost still bits his heels at night is imho b/w him and odin, dun have bearing on this )
asciilifeform: fwiw i respect folx who decide 'yer a lamer' and say openly; rather than continue to work together and 'eat with spitting'
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-12-19#1003953 << i admit that it isn't clear what i did to earn this honour ; but won't refuse...
snsabot: Logged on 2019-12-19 02:58:38 mike_c: BingoBoingo: I changed my mind, and my offer to hire you: I send you fee of 30 BTC (same amount the mpex account cost coincidentally). If you lose the case and I don't recover my dividend, you send 10 BTC to ascii (nothing to me). If you win and I do recover, then I send 10 BTC to ascii (and you keep the 30). in case of partial recovery, i dunno, we do something gentlemanly.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-12-19#1003932 << BingoBoingo i read , and was gonna comment, but decided to go to dc 1st and plug you in, then to eat, then came back to this, so prolly at this pt my comment is obsolete
snsabot: Logged on 2019-12-19 02:27:27 BingoBoingo: I trust asciilifeform such that I sent him a copy of the pitch I sent you to satisfy his curiosity http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-12-18#1003887
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-18 14:28:56 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Here is why http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=KtOT and I know that you know why this is the one that works. I trust you not to spoil it.
asciilifeform: ( was going to say, that imho it is a very long shot to persuade mp of anyffin; but this already i said before )
mike_c: worked for years in an enterprise i invested in for no salary, and while not successful, made good faith effort throughout.
mike_c: that's what you did.
asciilifeform: why ty mike_c
mike_c: and hi!
BingoBoingo: mike_c: That is exactly why I weight this argument strong and others dubious, the act of faith in the Turkish sense.
asciilifeform: mike_c: fwiw various items are to come back , on asciilifeform's steam. in particular phuctor ( when i wrap up current rewrite ) ; and next iter. of FG ( discussed in #a log )
mike_c: cool, I'll be a customer.
asciilifeform: mike_c: re isps, i've opened a miniature one locally. ( is what the thread w/ BingoBoingo was re: )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Please do GPGgram me what you want for 1 quarter of colocation
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: will do tomorrow. meanwhile put the box through its paces, see whether pipe satisfies etc
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i've ordered the sata plug for the extra disk, lemme know when you want it put in.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: box will go through its paces once I have headspace to do so, probably tomorrow.
asciilifeform goes to attend to neglected gurl, 'yer back from the front, let's do what's done when come back from the front', so bbl.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Enjoy
mike_c: heh, have fun. BingoBoingo: I'm signing off, funds will hit that address tonight.
BingoBoingo: mike_c: Aite, I'm in UTC -3 so I'll see when I wake up and then get the ball rolling.
mike_c: sounds good
mike_c: BingoBoingo: payment delivered with the last block. good luck!
BingoBoingo: mike_c: Thank you for the strong demonstration of WoT value. Opening salvo has been placed in the forum.
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/12/pantsuit-nancy-shows-cold-feet-after-pushing-through-impeachment-may-not-forward-impeachment-to-senate-for-trial/ << Qntra -- Pantsuit Nancy Shows Cold Feet After Pushing Through Impeachment May Not Forward Impeachment To Senate For Trial
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