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shinohai: Having girls read #t logs to me is a joy: "Who is Andrey Vyshinsky, and what happened in 1938?" A wonderful addition to her post Colombian socialist education.
asciilifeform: shinohai: read, read.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: my present thought is to make limited run of 'classical' FG, for own plant; but afterwards will put into production the MB/s scintillator-powered successor. who wants to fixate on the 7kB/s item, can continue to do so, there's moar than enuff for erryone in the pile mp is repossessing.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: mp evidently intends to fling shit until my tennis racket is too heavy to lift, and something sticks. 'charlatan', 'scammer', etc. why not also 'thief'. hence the pedantic inv request, it aint my intention for BingoBoingo to break his back lifting machines. but i assume , thus far , that BingoBoingo dun intend to cooperate in the flinging.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if i'm mistaken re the assumption, would prefer to know sooner than later.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I don't intend to fire any shots. It's not the lifting of machines, that is an issue. It is the time doing so over and over again takes
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: right, time. i expect you understand tho that eventually you may have to make a call. e.g. when he decides that asciilifeform's remnant coin in piz belongs to him, or that the auction irons do, or fatwa against hosting w/ asciilifeform .
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: for instance, the tx to refill my trinquewallet appears to be hanging in outer space, presently 0 trace of it anywhere. entirely possib that i'ma lose access to trinquewallet before getting to pay e.g. mp his 0.3 .
asciilifeform: after which will fling moar shit.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I have a pending withdrawal there. I suspect he hasn't made it to "missile control" to verify incoming and do key operation for outgoing.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the moar general point, is that you were there in '15, and know how this movie ends.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It seems the conversative, detailed lens you bring that allows you to produce gems like FFA is damaging to other sorts of tasks. MP, after trying to get you to try on some other lenses for years when looking at other things, has decided he can't tell if your conservatism is an unchangable force of nature or something else. For this reason, and the fact your conservatism seems to be surviving this crisis, he wants to
BingoBoingo: insulate himself.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Very different dispute from '15
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: very similar imho. even tho kako was a scumbag for unrelated reasons, and i'll smile when meet him in hell
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i elementarily dun have with-what to 'try' mp's 'tries'. w/out my day job, the lights go out in coupla wks, and that's it, will have to find where laddel's grave and lie down in it
BingoBoingo: Well, I don't know with a reasonable degree of confidence what part of the world I'll be in when we roll over into 2020 or what I will be doing there.
diana_coman: - fwiw I agree with BingoBoingo's assessment here.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-30 14:40:29 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It seems the conversative, detailed lens you bring that allows you to produce gems like FFA is damaging to other sorts of tasks. MP, after trying to get you to try on some other lenses for years when looking at other things, has decided he can't tell if your conservatism is an unchangable force of nature or something else. For this reason, and the fact your conservatism seems to be surviving t
BingoBoingo: brb, coffee
asciilifeform: ohai diana_coman
diana_coman: hello asciilifeform, not like I wasn't here before or anything.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i can see that yer here, but iirc yer also violating orders of fuhrer by being here. so by speaking you risk to end up in same garbage can as asciilifeform , y'know.
snsabot: (trilema) 2019-10-30 mp_en_viaje: do you remember that instance i actually forbade your talking to alf ?
diana_coman: asciilifeform: once again, none of your concern.
asciilifeform: aite, for so long as diana_coman understands , at own risk etc.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: I'm an adult, thank you.
asciilifeform: if diana_coman has comments i'ma answer ( tho atm also fighting phones and other horrors from the cthonic depths asciilifeform inhabits )
diana_coman: only as stated earlier
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-30 14:42:47 diana_coman: - fwiw I agree with BingoBoingo's assessment here.
diana_coman will go and take a walk anyway.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i dun expect any resolution to 'mexican standoff' where mp wants to isolate self from asciilifeform's 'charlatanry', and asciilifeform wants (imho reasonably) to isolate self from mocky-style suicide missions.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: enjoy walk. i'ma take q's later this evening from whoever wants.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo when you get back : i'm curious , do you think ( as mp appears to ) that asciilifeform is seekritly loaded, i.e. actually has the option of not working for heathens, and lyin' about it ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I am not under that impression.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: fill in the logic for me then plox. ( postulating that this '38 is actually about ' asciilifeform's evil isp ', as supposedly, tho imho it has ~0 to do with it, simply to do w/ mp's 'im'a destroy errything i dun 100% control' politic )
BingoBoingo: I am under the impression your lensing would force you to choose oscilloscopes over opportunity to break free for conservatively overweighing what you have in hand/shed and underweighting the opportunity that may exist in the fog of uncertainty.
PeterL: asciilifeform: I was under the impression that MP was trying to get you to change your secular/TMSR ratio so as to have income from the second, rather than foregoing the first completely
asciilifeform: PeterL: i'd have set the ratio to 100% for tmsr. back in '13. but with what ? unlike ~errybody else present, i was not 'early btc' fella, have no usefully liquid capitals, ~0 (per mp) aptitude for wheelin'-and-dealin' .
asciilifeform: PeterL: so what was really asked for is 'hey wouldja like to starve?' like e.g. mocky.
BingoBoingo has no idea whether Mocky starved or has been occupied since his last communication due to conquering the Java mine
asciilifeform: i expect w/ saving up for a pistol to eat.
BingoBoingo: In the south eastern US? Arms prices have shot up quite a bit since Obama, but there's still large caliber entry level models
asciilifeform: wilkommen, trinque
trinque: asciilifeform: I received orders to unperson you, and thus have spent all your BTC on hookers and vasoline.
trinque: I'm sure this comes as little surprise
asciilifeform: trinque: lol. you may have to tell the hookers to wait, loox like my tx still stuck...
asciilifeform: trinque: share plox the vaseline, if you have some left over!11
trinque: hahaha
asciilifeform: 'with or without vaseline, it's yer turn in the machine'(tm)(r)(old colleague)
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo et al : as you can prolly guess, most of asciilifeform's coin ( and good % of fiatola from when last 'java mine and saving for pistol' ) is gone. spent on largely futile attempt to be of use to republic.
asciilifeform: mp prolly oughta have sent asciilifeform packing when FG didn't get 9000 orders.
asciilifeform: ( nevermind that the snsa charter did not put asciilifeform in charge of marketing/propaganda. but hey, who gives a shit re charters, or even elementary logic, anymoar )
asciilifeform: 'division of labour is for insects', rright ? errybody oughta be a maffs pro, a concert pianist, a marksman, and a marketer, otherwise aint worth the dirt on mp's boots, neh.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: That's what I've gathered from what you presented so far. It's a large part of why I am still open to collaborating with you on a shared hosting offering for your cottage ISP. I do want you to make it to a land with cheese and ice cream.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: My big concern for you is that despite this expensive experience and the shock that rolled in with this month... you remain committed to the conservative lensing an insensitivity to opportunities for leverage. In my reading the moment MP set the disregard bit on your ISP plan was when he encountered the no outside capital ever declaration.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I understand you have reservations about surrendering control, but that reflexive retreat to conversatism committed you to a position that will handicap your effort. If you had instead started from considered conditionals under which you'd consider taking investment to speed growth once they'd been hit, that could have demonstrated some learning from the pain.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I've still got handicaps and stupid I'm burdened with, but I hope that I'm learning all I get from retreating to them is more pain.
trinque: as for "I'm not a marketer" I made several passes at y'all regarding doing exactly that, and it was as ignored as my offer to invest in hardware production.
asciilifeform: i dun expect they'll be any retreating, BingoBoingo . what's done is done.
asciilifeform: trinque: fwiw i believe you , that you wanted to invest in hardware. (even tho wasn't how i orig read the thread.) trinque is a fella i always believed.
trinque: I do not lie.
asciilifeform: fwiw i'd work w/ trinque , on just about anyffin, w/out a 2nd thought. so long as it makes some kinda sporting chance , rather than simply beautiful kamikaze mission .
trinque: ftr I'm not into kamikaze myself. but lets let the dust settle here.
trinque: I went on a tirade last week precisely because
snsabot: (trilema) 2019-05-17 trinque: republic is scant of profit centers
asciilifeform: trinque is 100% right about this, imho.
trinque: my opinion is that it is in part due to *all* of our narcissism, which means also mine.
trinque: cannot imitate or emulate the affectations of someone who has already won at wealth, success, etc
trinque: I am still digesting what this means for myself.
asciilifeform: trinque: afaik you might be the only 1 to date w/ a 100% working, unquestionably +ev btc operation, in entire republic .
asciilifeform: and this was even w/out having to 'full time' it.
trinque: extremely low cost-basis on that one
asciilifeform: ( or asking folx for mega-coin investments , for that matter )
asciilifeform: right but that's the genius.
asciilifeform: i tried to imitate trinque's , fwiw, with micro isp.
trinque: on the subj of the wallet, it has occurred to me that the actual business isn't the wallet. it'd be providing "interface to fiatola world" as a service
BingoBoingo: I don't know how to read except as a terminal retreat. For years MP has been hitting folks to varying degrees on the accumulated dysfunctions in their worldviews and workflows.
ossabot: (trilema) 2019-10-30 asciilifeform: if possible i'd like to collect all the due -10 bullets from the firing squad which 'went to reflect' 1st. but this is purely asciilifeform's aesthetic pref, obv. not necessarily will be followed. 'let those w/out sin throw 1st stone.'
trinque: this is what we've ad hoc'd with the thing so far anyway
asciilifeform: trinque: that'd be the gold medal, imho, yes . if could interface.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if indeed asciilifeform has nuffin left to offer to the cause , then it's the logical last stop of the train, yes. how else.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: y'know, just like the prev 9000 freeloaders who got booted.
BingoBoingo: "interfacing to fiat world" is what the auctions beginning in September covered for a very small portion of the fiat space.
trinque: right.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i was thinking, had buncha usefuls to offer, some in rack already, others sitting here in the torture tester. but if no one wants'em except if they come with 500kg of unobtainium, then indeed what left.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, there's the road less taken. Keep working on your projects, keep yourself present and available, try to unburden yourself of the handicaps. Maybe in 1, 2, 5, 10 years there's reason to celebrate?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: iirc i already said, that aint going anywhere. and that the projs will roll. even if no one remains to tune in. i expect that mp will make difficulties for anyone found to be detectably tuning in, tho.
asciilifeform: i expect he's already working, for instance, on constructing a backpedalling from the 'you signed vpatch? yer now equivalent to orig author' doctrine.
asciilifeform: fella genuinely thinks he's a god. and ergo whatever failure is to be blamed on anyone other then himself.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I expect those difficulties will be limited to cautions about your time/leverage insensitivity, case specific management decisions, and stern warnings that the lensing that allows you to produce gems is very dangerous applied to the rest of the world.
asciilifeform: *than
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i suppose we'll see
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: imho the 'it was poisonous garbage' thread dun leave much room for interpretation tho.
trinque: if the man wanted to be a dictator, I have very little doubt he'd be currently that instead of what he is.
asciilifeform: trinque: proper dictatoring, i suspect, is too much like work
trinque: most of the stalinesque comparisons seem to be coming from you
BingoBoingo: He's admitted errors of pilotage, recently. Including that thread.
asciilifeform: trinque: do you see the comparisons as 100% baseless ?
trinque: entirely.
trinque: not to mention contrary to his vast body of work
asciilifeform: trinque: his body of work is pretty interesting, imho, which is how i tuned in. but in past coupla yr it mostly sums, imho, to 'i'ma inerrant god, watch them tards die under my boot'
BingoBoingo is discounting the metaphors at this time as noise.
asciilifeform: fwiw i suspect that gigantic bags of moolah are at least as poisonous to the brain as heavy metals. and that nobody's exempt.
trinque: this is only one of your several very soviet-seeming beliefs.
trinque: what I think is perhaps toxic to the brain is having no contemporaries.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I've been reading "I've been taking small advantages for my self and the relative effects are incredible, and I'm telling you how I do this for free"
asciilifeform: trinque: if you like. tho you prolly know that even in rome they had a designated expendable whose job consisted in whispering to triumphant emperor 'you are mortal'
asciilifeform: mp has no one to do this.
BingoBoingo must tune out of this tread for a couple hours.
asciilifeform: laters, then, BingoBoingo .
asciilifeform: trinque: i dun contend that 'no one oughta sleep with gigantic bag of moolah.' simply that it has occupational hazards, like sleeping on operating reactor.
asciilifeform: sufficiently large bag, and you too can simulate for yerself for decades on end the illusion of never being in the wrong. and of infinite auctoritas , you'll be 4evah surrounded with circle of folx who 'want to also learn how to sleep on gigantic bag'
asciilifeform: in sovok, trinque , the exact same process played out, simply w/ an unwritten altcoin instead of what you'd recognize as money
asciilifeform: ( cuz dumb orcs never properly invented money )
asciilifeform: e.g. ~some~ of the folx who devoted life to writing biographies of l. i. brezhnev, may've been paid ; but the rest, genuinely ~respected~, cuz 'he's on the mighty throne, surely can teach us how to also'
asciilifeform: not even to say that i disagree w/ mp's ideas, back when he was posting actual ideas, rather than 'here's the schniztel my slaves an' i ate, tremble before my throne'. if didn't agree, wouldn't have worked with him.
trinque: man's already said, and now it's well past "either do it or don't; what do I care?" imho.
trinque: I don't expect him to adjust any of that to make me feel better, either
asciilifeform: trinque: it's quite evident that he went to the 'i said it, and still ocean hasn't parted, it's them fucking lamers to blame, i'ma collect a new set that'll obey properly'
trinque: your extreme metaphors are really difficult, you know.
trinque: running a small business isn't ocean-parting. it's just shitty, difficult work, with high failure rate.
asciilifeform: trinque: do you picture e.g. isp that services 1000u of boxen , as 'small' ?
trinque: I deal with one that grew from a few racks in somebody else's DC to own building over the past say 5yrs
trinque: and I'm sure it was hell for them.
asciilifeform: it's certainly possible to build a dc. hell, somebody built the 1 i'm in.
asciilifeform: but he didn't have to do it with 'i'ma fill it w/ people who all know one another' and each installing 1-2 box.
trinque: nope, did it with sales, which is the act of talking to strangers and persuading them to give you their money.
trinque: requires a lot of aggressive outbound to get a startup going.
asciilifeform: certainly. but in this case it aint simply about strangers agreeing to part w/ money.
asciilifeform: they also gotta part with, at the minimal, ~btc~. are there even 1000 people alive who have appreciable coin or where to get ?
asciilifeform: orthogonally to this q , whatever happened to 'no moar 1000 wot people in 1 rack', i was also curious.
trinque: happened to what?
asciilifeform: evidently the 'let's not geo-concentrate all the eggs in 1 basket' wasn't a statement of principle, but just a stick picked up for the occasion to beat asciilifeform with ?
trinque: re: previous, I would've taken instead the approach of "cow farm pays for rancher's house"
trinque: I dunno, now you're criticizing him for being flexible in the face of failure
trinque: which is precisely the thing you lack
asciilifeform: trinque: to run with this model, it may very well be the case that 'cow can pay for rancher's house.' with skilled rancher. i aint got this skill.
asciilifeform: so far erry single contact of asciilifeform w/ 'cows' ended up with hoofprints in face and ~0 to show for it but empty pockets.
trinque: fair enough, but I never heard of a feudal fief without livestock
trinque brb
asciilifeform: trinque: there in fact existed feudal fiefs w/out livestock and operated by vassal who had 2 boots and a jacket to his name. but at the ~sunset~ of feudal era, not at dawn .
asciilifeform: trinque: in my resignation (which for some reason mp not yet saw fit to drop into the deedbot, i'ma prolly have to do it manually 1ce all the dust settles) specifically said this -- i dun have the resources to lord. will happily supply goods an' services to folx w/ resources on cash-and-carry basis, should they be interested. but no moar.
trinque: deedbot is currently nodeless until I get another stood up with the proper prosthetics
trinque: should be soon, but for now, !!deed will just enqueue
asciilifeform: ugh so that tx aint ever clearing is it
asciilifeform: ( or not till trinque rebakes whole thing ? )
PeterL: asciilifeform: I am confused, why does MP have to drop your resignation into deedbot? Wouldn't it be you that puts it in?
asciilifeform: PeterL: he dun have to. but i followed tradition of 'give commander sealed resignation'. evidently they didn't have this on his homeworld.
PeterL: oh, I see now
asciilifeform will also bbl.
trinque: asciilifeform: nah, I can process deposits
trinque: I'm just talking about !!deed
trinque: separate things
shinohai: <<< can attest, my camho operations, while rewarding, was fraught with difficulty the greatest being I naively trusted in BitPay to keep the crypto/fiat interface smoothly working.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-30 19:44:40 trinque: running a small business isn't ocean-parting. it's just shitty, difficult work, with high failure rate.
PeterL: << MP could say "alf no longer person, I only use items if signed by somebody else" rather than "anything ALF wrote must be destroyed"
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-30 16:29:13 asciilifeform: i expect he's already working, for instance, on constructing a backpedalling from the 'you signed vpatch? yer now equivalent to orig author' doctrine.
asciilifeform: trinque: aite, will keep watching for that tx then
asciilifeform: PeterL: this worx a++, but dun solve his prob 100%, or already would've wrapped up, rather than 'omfg wat do' thrd. he wants to be rid of the ~ideas~, not simply the proggies.
asciilifeform: PeterL: cuz, y'know, 'poisonous offerings'
asciilifeform: shinohai: ftr i refuse to use any heathen-built 'gateways for coin' etc. can use only a) 'fiatola from own pocket always, coin goes in storage' or b) BingoBoingo-style auctions. but even before expulsion where i lose access to (b) entirely, it was mixed bag -- delivered severely under-market exch rate, and w/ wildly variable delay
asciilifeform: PeterL: see, per the new mp-cosmography, asciilifeform ~hypnotized~ mp et al into using v, trng, gentoo, ..., etc. ( this is quite a compliment , imho, 'hypnotized world's greatest hypnotist' , but i dun particularly care for compliments )
asciilifeform: PeterL: for some proggies, e.g. the wartime logger, which was an' is shite, they have very trivial , if slow 'rewrite in php'. for other things -- not so much.
shinohai: Hey, I learned my lesson but at time was *only* gateway I had.
trinque: asciilifeform: what'd it harm to consider the hypothesis that it's how you interface with other humans, rather than the quality of your work, that's poisonous
trinque: we spent how many years talking about the psychological disorders of americans
trinque: what of you sovworld folks eh?
asciilifeform: trinque: possibly cuz mp's hypnomagick still worx on me, i dunno
asciilifeform: maybe all ~was~ poison
asciilifeform: trinque: imho possibly asciilifeform's (and other sovok folx) greatest psychofailure is that we... believe in fuhrers.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Bulls pay for the rancher's or dairyman's house. Cows are pretty fungible, they just make more cows, steers, and dairy.
asciilifeform: i dun have any illusion that i can 'out-mp mp', trinque . will have to try, when sent away to work alone and various leeches certain to appear to try to 'make friends' . worked alone for 6+y and solved this by simply sending'em all to hell, 'better alone on island than w/ bob becks'.
asciilifeform: trinque: ftr mp is actually moar of a humanitarian than asciilifeform . he at least 'believes in people' in abstract. whereas i'm sorta running outta the 'belief in people' juice that i borrowed from mp.
trinque: fuhrerfollowing was only one of the sovietisms I observed. the other is "you're a secret traitor, and I always knew!"
asciilifeform: trinque: i dunno yet whether mp suffers from this, but i dun think he 'seekrit traitor'. fwiw i 100% buy that he believes the things he says.
trinque: at any rate, it's called the web of trust, isn't it
trinque: not the web of mutual dickrubbing
asciilifeform: indeed
trinque: and no, I don't think mp a liar either.
asciilifeform: i suppose since 4-5 people on vacation, and left their launch codes at home, it's also atm the web of 'i'ma shoot later'
trinque: I'll tell you where things wear thin for me.
trinque: there's been a lot of pompous ubermench blather over the years, redditard this and w/e
trinque: and don't think me a redditard apologist now
asciilifeform: trinque: fwiw i aint convinced that ubermenschen exist. ~untermenschen~ defo exist, tho.
trinque: but it's plainly evident the fixation on hatred just ends up consuming all.
trinque: infecting social habits among peers.
trinque: I'm certain more than one gentleman left due to ^
asciilifeform: trinque: i've wondered occasionally whether i only agreed to work w/ mp on acct of hating the same people.
trinque: not because baw stop teh hate, but because wtf, how have you earned that? where's your castle?
trinque: mp has. and this isn't hero worship out of me.
asciilifeform: trinque: does one need a great castle to hate mosquitoes and lice ?
asciilifeform: to justifiably hate, i mean
trinque: one needs nothing to, but what's it gain?
asciilifeform: it gains one's clothes not being alive w/ lice, for instance.
trinque: you seem pretty itchy.
asciilifeform: not half as itchy as before threw out 'open sores philosophy' outta head, for instance.
trinque: I'm not even speaking about said untermenschen
asciilifeform: trinque: who then were you thinking of ?
trinque: ourselves. l1.
asciilifeform: i dun hate anyone in the current l1, trinque
trinque: do you trust anyone in the l1?
asciilifeform: trinque: atm i do, which is wai haven't touched the ratings ( i aint on vacation, have the launch codes 5min away )
asciilifeform: dunno about the reverse tho. possibly folx simply slow on the draw atm.
asciilifeform: iirc kako's firing squad also took coupla days tho. ( somehow folx often have this desire to confer and agree on 'exactly why' $condemned's goose was cooked , for instance. )
trinque: ^ you wouldn't imagine narratives like this except about folks you hate.
trinque: this kind of thing sits in you coiled like a spring, and when you "don't hate" someone you hold onto it as best you can.
asciilifeform: trinque: picture if erry dog you ever came near, had bitten you. not necessarily immediately, but after 2, 3, 500th time.
trinque: yeah, this is exactly my girl's "I got stepped on at a concert" I cured her of.
trinque: it isn't as if I cured her of this by making her taller
asciilifeform: trinque: i can't resist to ask : how didja cure ? ( and why so certain that cured ? )
trinque: her prior strategy was exactly "fuck you untermenschen; I shall not be moved!!!1!1!!"
asciilifeform: trinque: i 'moved' for 7y until had nowhere to move.
trinque: by making her more concerned about me than whatever her hindbrain wanted to yammer about, and then to prescribe alternate tactics that actually used her strengths (cute, nice butt, etc)
trinque: "make friends with everyone and get a dance party going!"
trinque: and you know, she had the time of her life, and then thanked me for cornering her on it.
asciilifeform: i had a notbad, imho, 7y 'dance party', trinque . nao mostly folx went, left broken dishes.
asciilifeform to get some night air; bbl
lobbes: << fwiw when I met with him it did not seem like he was heading for starvation
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-30 18:02:41 BingoBoingo: has no idea whether Mocky starved or has been occupied since his last communication due to conquering the Java mine
lobbes: (of course, that was months ago and radio silence since. who knows)
asciilifeform: !q seen-anywhere Mocky
snsabot: Mocky last seen in #trilema on 2019-09-04 22:32:32: I fell down a rabbit hole
lobbes: << also fwiw, I have 0 plans to prevent asciilifeform from using auctionbot. I'll even bring it into #a if requested
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-30 20:54:50 asciilifeform: shinohai: ftr i refuse to use any heathen-built 'gateways for coin' etc. can use only a) 'fiatola from own pocket always, coin goes in storage' or b) BingoBoingo-style auctions. but even before expulsion where i lose access to (b) entirely, it was mixed bag -- delivered severely under-market exch rate, and w/ wildly variable delay
asciilifeform: ty lobbes . i wouldn't like to see lobbes fatwa'd , tho, imho lobbes has good prospects .
asciilifeform: i dun expect, lobbes , that mp will have much patience for folx who go to 'poison well' to get some moar 'poisoned', trade-with-enemy.
lobbes: well, at this juncture imagining myself being fatwa'd for such a thing sounds like "man with bloody axe rings your doorbell" territory. I guess possible, but I won't waste worry cycles on it now
lobbes: an' I think (as I also think BingoBoingo aptly pointed out earlier) that the 'poison' refers to the conservative lens you use, not the quality of your work. He fatwa'd diana_coman from working with you on eulora related things because he perceives it to be a high cost in operations
asciilifeform: lobbes: the fella 'w/ the axe' has already rung that doorbell.
lobbes: but an automated bot running in #a; I mean that is low cost by definition
asciilifeform: lobbes: until i bid on an' win an auction, then suddenly 'wat-do'
asciilifeform: lobbes: re eulora -- i still find it puzzling , just where did i get the cylinder of hypnosis gas, and how piped it into diana_coman and mp , so they picked up mpi, then ada, then ffa, ada-udp, etc. given obv. 'high cost'.
lobbes: maybe. I'll cross that bridge if/when it happens tho. Worse case I just have two bots: 1 mp sanctioned and 1 not. Not like mp forces trinque to run his private sphere business with tmsr only folk, you know?
asciilifeform: lobbes: how does one run an auction for same thing on 2 disconnected auctionbots ?!
asciilifeform: say the piz liquidation. where'll that run ?
lobbes: aa I see what you mean. Dunno! too many unknowns atm. Gotta cross those bridges first
lobbes: anyways, I'm off to consume food. bbl
asciilifeform: aite lobbes . i defo welcome your bot here. but recall how '15 went: one can 'sit on 2 chairs w/ 1 arse' only for so long.
asciilifeform: laters lobbes .
asciilifeform: know, lobbes et al, that i dun have a posh '2nd chair' to offer to mutineers. all i got is irons, software, and isp that actually work. but i dun have, for instance, delish schnitzels. or harems, or budapests, or bags o'moolah .
shinohai: heh I'm already persona non grata next door, one of few reasons I have stayed tuned in for past year + is because I have, as always, found asciilifeform's work interesting.
shinohai: moolah and harem I have, perhaps not @ MP levels but enough for own comfort. (Thanks Johnson & Johnson!)
asciilifeform: why ty shinohai . ( will be moar interesting still when you get to doing something w/ it, imho tho )
shinohai: Well I no longer have any peers to guide me in that area, though I'm sure time will come when aha! moment strikes.
asciilifeform: shinohai: i fughet what it was -- was shinohai run over by bulldozer ?
asciilifeform: ( how came about the 'enough for own comfort' )
shinohai: No, it was determined during my '18 surgery that faulty product by J&J caused it (from previous surgery) ... so despite MP's mocking I sued, settled out of court with 'em.
asciilifeform: a
asciilifeform: for some reason i distinctly recalled bulldozer ; and also that while reading orig thread thinking 'wish i had a line of work that put me in contact with bulldozers..'
asciilifeform: possib. that was someone else, not shinohai .
shinohai: Oh! You were close. I got injured by forklift in my previous saltmine job, which led to surgery 1 mentioned above.
asciilifeform: aa.
shinohai: shinohai's job? Writing safety manuals in Spanish. Irony of ironies, said forklift operator obviously did not read materials I wrote very well.
asciilifeform: working in salt mine erryday, w/ the knowledge that it only stops when yer dead -- sux. (even w/ 'humane' 0-commute salt mines, there also hangs the damocle's sword that eventually will end up in conventional one again someday )
shinohai: Dunno what type of mine asciilifeform currently labors in, but can always bounce of equipment like I did. Don't wind up like the 99% and drink yerself to death afterwards from boredom tho.
asciilifeform: bounce of equipment ?
shinohai: s/of/off/
asciilifeform: lol shinohai , what equipment. my own chair ? i'm in a 'humane' 1 atm, where the only thing that leaves house is electrons.
asciilifeform: ( these never last tho. )
shinohai: Nah, I did the remote from home thing for years, usually one off offerings.
asciilifeform: also i haven't yet met anyone who drank to death from ~boredom~ just yet. ( from erry other reason -- but boredom. )
shinohai: Well I enjoy a wee nip now and again, but 100% sure it won't cure boredom or any other ailment.
asciilifeform bbl,meat

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