mp_en_viaje: they are working with isp huh. aite.
BingoBoingo: I'm going to draft an inquiry for the business side contact asking what can be done to keep routine internet weather from incurring a reaction far more destructive than the weather. Will post for review before issuing. In the latest news from the tech team http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=QSzj
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: couldja share what it was you said to the latech derps ? cuz i'm getting the impression that you left'em with impression that it is somehow acceptable to nullrout a paying customer's ip block.
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-04 17:32:32 diana_coman: asciilifeform: uhm, how does that reasoning go? they fire less at my box because one box or what? anyways, is there at least any concrete communication from piz's data centre re what they are doing otherwise exactly?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 14:41:51 asciilifeform: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940177 << i oughta expand re this. ddos is cheap but not free, if the 1e6 or whatnot winblowz boxen were evenly split to piss into 20 diff addrs, would not amount to much effect. so traditionally rotates, e.g. 3min to 1, then to next, and so on, in circle.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940190 << look, the sort of shit here discussed is https://www.bootyou.net/ sorta ~nothing. if it actually does put you on the fritz, and the hoster starts whining about "attacks" and whatnot, you just need a real hoster.
mp_en_viaje: trilema.com/2009/progresam-maria-ta/][obscure idiots from timisoara] "had 10`000 visits in the first three hours" on meta-piece discussing muh whores (which he doesn't realise YET, such an informed moron he is), and the dc called him because of SERVERS (plural).
mp_en_viaje: actually, i guess it's lulzyrelevant. the "Eh, dar dacÄ pun un articol cu o ÈâÈÄ, cu o bucÄ, cu o tipÄ Ã®mbrÄcatÄ sumar sau, cum a fost ultimul, cu 2 tipe plimbate în lesÄ prin oraÈâ¦pac, 10.000 de vizite în primele 3 ore, de m-au sunat oamenii de la firma de hosting cÄ ce se întâmplÄ, cÄ le pun serverele în cap!" passage roughly translates to a) obscure idiotic blog organised by the remnants of [http://
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-04 17:15:13 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i guess this is an illuminative experiment re the q of what it is we actually get for that ( pretty hefty, quite enuff to keep three bus-fuls of orcs in empanadas erry month ) pipe fee. turns out not 200Mb/s , but 'what we feel like aint too hard' ??
mp_en_viaje: but nevertheless, the logs, i have. which is kinda the distinguishing factor between man and child in this sense. if real ddos, there's packet captures. if derpitude, there's words.
mp_en_viaje: they don't mention this, of course, "haha, we're fucked in the head, so loser, totally stupid, tried to ddos trilema but it did not werk, we will now give up everything and dedicate remainder of lives to glorification of this our superior"
mp_en_viaje: eg, last when i pissed on the rotards' collected heads.
mp_en_viaje: otherwise, there's a script kiddy / week or thereabouts, coming to nigh on a thousand by now.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, the fact that trilema doesn't really suffer from "rotating ddos" aka, some dork with a wp list &c, is that trilema is an adult service, rather than a flavour of above mentioned, "virtual server, fiddy bux"
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: any word from these ? even so much as a timetable for getting the service we're paying for ? << Their estimate to call back was half and hour issued 16 minutes before the question
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, in all honesty, so far i can't in the slightest distinguish the spew from the alleged dc from the spew of "virtual server, fiddy bux" provider.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 14:37:17 asciilifeform: mp's www fwiw doesn't seem visibly affected. so prolly not included on the magick list.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940186 << i dunno there's any basis for this dreamy alt-logic.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: any word from these ? even so much as a timetable for getting the service we're paying for ?
BingoBoingo: I'm feeling rather sore. http://btcbase.org/log/2019-10-04#1940367 << The other grating idea is they nulled the block at Latecho's request
asciilifeform: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940295 << the sea cable doesn't literally terminate in our cage, sadly
mp_en_viaje: okay, so basically the most favourable idea is uruguay's state monopoly nulled your ips block for you
BingoBoingo: Outside the WTC "Free Zone" their official registered Uruguay corp goes by PASWER INTERNATIONAL S.A.
mp_en_viaje: https://www.robtex.com/as/as61442.html << same story, minus the (~worthless) claro peerage.
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, what's the asn for this dc anyways ?
mp_en_viaje flicked through the news, no "uruguay offline as result of '''rotating dos''' " items caught my eye.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940178 << this does not actually mean anything. "as far as the doctors can tell it's humoral imbalance". wut ?
BingoBoingo: I just got off the phone, the are working on getting the upstream to remove the block. Should call back in half an hour.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 14:31:54 asciilifeform: diana_coman: that being said, i also suspect that yer box is only standing because piz is taking 90% of the fire
mp_en_viaje: to which the only possible response would be "hasta la vista, tardsteins"
mp_en_viaje: so far the only constructions seems to be "gringos started asking questions about our shitty uptime, let's nullroute their boxes for a day or so and see".
mp_en_viaje keeps diligently reading, and will continue, but so far can't say gleaned much from the exercise.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: indeed. i'm relying on BB to get some fucknig answers (and the pipe, forfuxxsake)
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 14:24:41 BingoBoingo: It seems to depend on how big the incoming crapflood is and how far upstream they have to go to find a sufficiently wide pipe to cut off the crapflood.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940166 << but there's so far no numbers, just epithets. what "big" ? "attacks" is not big.
mp_en_viaje: the problem here'd be that there's only four quarters in each day and with barely thirty days in a month, your uptime comes to... two nines, o rmore precisely 119/120
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo are you alive in there ?!
mp_en_viaje: well then wtf.
bvt: asciilifeform: on the non-logging bot.py i used for testing my vpatch, i got pings from freenode only every ~140 seconds -- not 30-45 definitely
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 13:58:34 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I trying to start by getting the portions of the range without known, uncloaked IRC bouncers opened up again. From there we continue trying to open things up.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940155 << it's very fucking weird to me, all this "trying" and "attacks" and nonsense. did ~you~ ask them to null route your ips is the idea ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: possibly grandfathered. when asciilifeform experimented w/ no-sslism connect via own (cloakistic) nick, ended up w/ displayed ip.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940148 << not afaik the case, mircea_popescu never used ssl. though that may be a grandfathering thing, dunno
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 13:50:07 BingoBoingo: Well, now with cloaks attacker HAS to reveal that they are targeting
mp_en_viaje: i was under the impression you're buying dedicated pipe.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: it's described further downlog -- appears to be the traditional rotating ddos
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 13:41:24 BingoBoingo: The cloak is not perfect protection, but it does frustrate the lazy sort of attack we appear to have been struck by
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940139 << it's not altogether clear what is here meant by "attack".
asciilifeform: given how pc clock worx, and the existence of multiple loggers, timestamps in log are somewhere between 'mildly informative' and 'screamingly useless' imho
asciilifeform: ( and to add insult to injury, when importing logs externally, the peer's times are eaten )
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: timestamps (both current & historic) are all over the place. cuz clocks are shite.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940091 <<->> http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940092 those be some pretty lulzy timestamps then
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 22:28:19 asciilifeform: i find it mighty 'coincidence'(tm) that for year+ we get 24/7 pipe, and then put a logger and nao dulap-I treatment.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939920 << i don't get it, what is the coincidence ?
asciilifeform: ftr i did not put this in genesis because naively supposed that ordinary workings of tcp will in fact throw a connection if the pipe were to unplug. but apparently this aint so
asciilifeform has internal policy of not regrinding a patch for mistakes in comments; folx oughta read the actual proggy before connecting to live missiles
asciilifeform: i noticed last night that on none of the piz outages did the thing actually realize it's dead. hence this patch.
asciilifeform: (at the very least, when live conn, will have pingism from fleanoad erry ~45s )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the new one simply demands that ~something~ come down the pipe erry disc_t seconds. recc'd value 180 .
diana_coman: it did reconnect properly the times when it just lost connection; hm, the log I saw for when unreachable, it was trying to connect
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the old one worx a++ on 'organic' i.e. fleanode-initiated disconnects. but sadly not on pipe death
asciilifeform: tested (by setting absurdly small interval; throws, reconnects, as expected; then by setting 3min -- operates normally, pings typically come erry 45s or so)
mp_en_viaje: aite, ima brb writing article then
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: it's a small ddos, as they come, but compounded by the hamfistedness of piz upstream. BB is in the cage atm bazaring w/em
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: seems like only folx regularly throwing ips in the log, affected.
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: Got flooded, appears to have been one of the lurkers havesting uncloaked ips and shooting
mp_en_viaje: a ok, ima get to it then
BingoBoingo: I have stopped irissi, weechat, and znc services on the shared machine. I am about to request the portion of the IP space not known to be running uncloaked bouncers is restored shortly.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: ty in the basement on junkyard wars connection
asciilifeform: incidentally, anyone else think this is not entirely accidentally coinciding with the start of the festivities ?
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-04 17:32:32 diana_coman: asciilifeform: uhm, how does that reasoning go? they fire less at my box because one box or what? anyways, is there at least any concrete communication from piz's data centre re what they are doing otherwise exactly?
asciilifeform: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940177 << i oughta expand re this. ddos is cheap but not free, if the 1e6 or whatnot winblowz boxen were evenly split to piss into 20 diff addrs, would not amount to much effect. so traditionally rotates, e.g. 3min to 1, then to next, and so on, in circle.
asciilifeform: does give a little support to the hypothesis that original demasking signal was via irc.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's www ( still parked on ancient heathen hoster atm ) also not visibly dinged.
asciilifeform: ( either that, or simply outlandish margin of spare pipe bought from last time when he ~was~ included )
asciilifeform: mp's www fwiw doesn't seem visibly affected. so prolly not included on the magick list.
diana_coman: can't hurt either
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i expect that before this is through, we'll find out just what tonnage of liquishit the moldavian folx are able to digest
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: plox to post the next despatch from latch in cleartext, i see no reason to whisper these
BingoBoingo headed to the rack
diana_coman: not that "oh, so currently not under fire because they are firing at piz"
diana_coman: asciilifeform: ok, but the point here is that moldavians managed to mitigate it while under fire.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: uhm, how does that reasoning go? they fire less at my box because one box or what? anyways, is there at least any concrete communication from piz's data centre re what they are doing otherwise exactly?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: that being said, i also suspect that yer box is only standing because piz is taking 90% of the fire
asciilifeform: diana_coman: seems to be that 'unplug customer' is the only way anybody mitigates ddos.
diana_coman had to follow quite a few things at the same time during this last hr so didn't focus on pizarro specifically.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: indeed they did, i thought it was clear from last hr of #t
asciilifeform: what condition they were in prior to this event, i do not know
asciilifeform: diana_coman: well since latech appears to have in fact pulled our plug, it is no surprise that they're unreachable ~nao~
BingoBoingo: It seems to depend on how big the incoming crapflood is and how far upstream they have to go to find a sufficiently wide pipe to cut off the crapflood.
asciilifeform: even so, if incoming e.g. 50, that 50 oughta consist of a random sampling of the incoming. not 0.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: We have an asymmetrical pipe. The 200Mb/s is traffic going out of the rack
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i guess this is an illuminative experiment re the q of what it is we actually get for that ( pretty hefty, quite enuff to keep three bus-fuls of orcs in empanadas erry month ) pipe fee. turns out not 200Mb/s , but 'what we feel like aint too hard' ??
asciilifeform: diana_coman: they're both in piz house neh
asciilifeform: soo, open all but the actually used boxes , lol ??
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I trying to start by getting the portions of the range without known, uncloaked IRC bouncers opened up again. From there we continue trying to open things up.
asciilifeform: and no, per the docs, not optional, i.e. the naked ip is broadcast ~unless~ you log in 'in one shot' via their ssliquishit.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: there is already such delay.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It does appear the SSLism for cloaks is still optional, but a delay needs to be inserted between authentication and joining channels
asciilifeform: this supports BingoBoingo's hypothesis of 'shrapnel addressed to occupant' (vs 'bullet w/ name on it')
BingoBoingo: Well, now with cloaks attacker HAS to reveal that they are targeting
asciilifeform: it does seem that the box where 'uncloaked' lobbesbot connects from , was on the nuke rotation, whereas e.g. asciilifeform's local pipe -- not
BingoBoingo: I am saying have cloak, ever so slightly more protected in theory yet substantially more protected in practice
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i still dun see the matter of 'from where' as settled -- it aint as if the addrs of tmsr www boxen are anyffin but public
BingoBoingo: I suspect what happened is a long stretch of relatively calm weather got a lot of people complacent on the matter of IRC cloaks.
BingoBoingo: The cloak is not perfect protection, but it does frustrate the lazy sort of attack we appear to have been struck by
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-02 14:08:12 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-02#1939628 << seems to lurk in #a too. perhaps the current enemy spy, i have nfi
asciilifeform: i suppose this could explain what these are for
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: "The attacks are moving on the range. It started with .97, then move to .99, then to .200 and so on." This supports lazy attack targeting uncloaked irc connections.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what's the plan on latech co's side ? we pay'em and they give us a pretend-pipe ?
diana_coman: moldavians seem to be doing fine so far ie attack still on from what they say but not making it through.
asciilifeform: ( and seems like ddos is only half the problem , the other half is pipe vendor's immunocascade ? )
feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y06/0a5-work-plan-vi.html << The Tar Pit -- Work plan for M10 2019
BingoBoingo: <diana_coman> that's why I didn't really bother re cloak because the ip is public anyway << Even the most trivial barrier does something, like prevent lurkbots from harvesting addresses as they connect.
asciilifeform: atm that meter's fucking running but the taxi aint movin'!!
asciilifeform: so BingoBoingo what exactly are we paying these people for ? 'isp but if not too many packets' ?!
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Apparently the full block down due to flooding
diana_coman: asciilifeform: there was a bit earlier some weird stuff, couldn't connect to smg servers + eulora client fell down for lack of response from server
asciilifeform: it aint as if the ips are any kinda seekrit, in all cases
diana_coman: I'm still waiting on the isp to tell me wtf went on
BingoBoingo: I suspect someone may be crapflooding IPs displayed in join/part messages on one of the channels. This can be a problem because cloak discipline appears to have gone soft.
BingoBoingo: Looking at the connection messages on chan lobbes seems to be using a cloak, but dianacoman's bot appears to not be
diana_coman: shucks, 1 min please to sync the shit
asciilifeform: seems like diana_coman's box in europistan may've been included in the festivities also
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Putting a GPG gram together
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: With the more intense monitoring two of the rockchips were hit with incoming connection floods.
asciilifeform: i'ma put the sync thing on backburner, will instead write a proper disconnection detector, cuz this is ridiculous
asciilifeform ate the log, will process after tea
asciilifeform: and loox like it'll need a disconnect detector (e.g. '5min w/out incoming pings or lines' would still be 9000x better than the current 'unplugged for hours and still thinks connected' )
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-04 08:03:01 mp_en_viaje: so if you don't know, ask ; i'll either give you the thing or else tell you why not, at which point ~you'll fucking know why not~. see ?
lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-04#1940024 << yeah I see your point. I get in the habit of assuming instead of asking. /me goes to learn some latin and prepare for a proper ask
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 05:12:01 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939876 << i thought as it stands they're good forever, which is how eg spyked 's bot was voicing itself.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 22:28:19 asciilifeform: i find it mighty 'coincidence'(tm) that for year+ we get 24/7 pipe, and then put a logger and nao dulap-I treatment.
spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939920 <-- moreover, for some reason it seems that passive (i.e. listening) tcp socket much easier to keep open than active one; it's often happened to me to get to irc console in the morning and notice "ping timeout" from server for ??? reason.
spyked: also, while doing this importing work I've gathered a (still ongoing) list of broken links that might make for a lulzy blogpost
spyked: yeah and there's other problems with the theme. it's all on the list, incl. proper selection
spyked: not sending internal trackbacks tho, prolly because still using old link schema. anyway, lotsa work left still, meanwhile articles will continue pouring there for a while.
mp_en_viaje: spyked, http://wp.thetarpit.org/2015/with-our-balls-clean?b=topu&e=#select looks a little weird neh ?
diana_coman: and then teledickensis too ?
mp_en_viaje: i dunno, the one thing about boy engineers is that what they actually want of this world is some way they can futz on these here knobs until the girl over-there takes her panties off.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 05:03:23 mp_en_viaje: so if you don't know, ask ; i'll either give you the thing or else tell you why not, at which point ~you'll fucking know why not~. see ?
mp_en_viaje: but, on the upside, all my outbound's spread over a spectrum for keks an' giggles.
mp_en_viaje: in other top keks, my multi-ip exit bridge here is breaking everything, had to reload http://thimbron.com/2019/10/wip-irc-takeover-initial-findings/#comment-21 like a dozen times before coincidentally ip stasyed same long enough to move past the "stale page" thing
mp_en_viaje: anyways, i'll be around for a while, giving the whores a day off before they start dying of exhaustion under me.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 00:26:32 asciilifeform: expects that 'adult' synctron will be nearly as complicated as the logger per se...
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 00:21:57 asciilifeform: ty BingoBoingo , broadcast the barf as it comes in
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-04 00:17:05 asciilifeform: meanwhile in the analogue room -- asciilifeform already found a logical boojum in sync demo -- will not fetch tails for chans where nuffin was proposed to drop. ( easy to fix, but i've not enuff wake-hours atm to do it just nao )
mp_en_viaje: nothing wsrong with keeping the dc in the know so they don't take you for yokels ; but nothing gained by twisting their neck either, they're not doing it.
mp_en_viaje: bullshit started a few months ago, when sporadically reported, and it'll prolly continue until l3 or whoever operates the sick interchange point gets their shit in order.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 23:52:38 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: They're wrestling with international carrier. Will let you know when there's news.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939944 << by my own diagnosis it seems entirely very unlikely the dc's fault ; but rather looks like some ipx upstream either in brazil or with the main carribean ring in florida.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 22:21:16 asciilifeform: outage apparently over, but, annoyingly, bvt's patched bot did NOT correctly detect the disconnect.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939914 << well conceivably there'll be a time threshold any automated detection's not possible past ; and it probably is about that large, seeing how freenode pings are half minute in the first place.
mp_en_viaje: anyway, i suppose it's one of those "you had to be there for" things.
mp_en_viaje: the matter behind us they kiss, slut gets her shot, and as she's about to do to it what it was asking for (the shot i mean) i'm right in there... "to your health!"
mp_en_viaje: cuz she's austrian, see, an' about as awkward in english as you'd like, she's perhaps last week had the flu, maybe. this comes out as "she has a virus".
mp_en_viaje: after which she agrees, if sluts want drinks they gotta get them from her (being as she's the waitress, makes sense) but she ominously warns us that... well... she has a virus.
mp_en_viaje: nyone ever took your bra ?" "well... i mean boyfriends but like... no, nobody said give me your bra, hand it over, etc like that, no" "so it's the first time" "yeah!" and on it went, apparently every girl there had some first time experience that night with yours truly.
mp_en_viaje: which reminds me, as it happens, of last night. so i order a pile of vodka shots, and this nice tits chinese looking but not chinese girl wants one, so i'm like... well, you gotta kiss the waitress. who's as surprised as anyone by the sidden turn of events, "you know, i've been working here for years, i've never seen anything likethis" "yeah, that's what girls usually say to me". then she went around asking randomly, "hey, a
mp_en_viaje: i don't mind so much, personally, but perhaps others harder to console.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 21:29:19 asciilifeform: if two peers offer the same length of tail, the peer with the higher priority (indicated by order of mention in config) is chosen.
mp_en_viaje: ile the three dozen dudes lined the bar being incels-with-beers (deserted bar, as even the fucking waitress was sitting at my table, kissing random girls for drinks).
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939899 << lol apparently i managed to miss out a lot while taking less than a day to do slutty things with sluts -- i last spoke 11h and apparently was supposed to give above proposal significantly before 21h. how the fuck am i to do this is anyone's guess ; the consolation prize's that all the sluts in the joint crowded my table / gifted me bras / shoved tits in my face wh
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939883 << because it's just wireframe anyway, we don't bother fixing unbroken things. should this issue excavate itself into relevancy, we'll prolly just point-to-point around it. but so far...
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 21:15:31 trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1938022 << if you're hardening against the unreliability of freenode, why use freenode as your sync transport?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 21:06:09 trinque: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-25#1937851 << so here's an idea. suppose you could define a ttl on your voice tokens, i.e. "worx until block x". then folks could pile them up for travels.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939876 << i thought as it stands they're good forever, which is how eg spyked 's bot was voicing itself.
mp_en_viaje: so if you don't know, ask ; i'll either give you the thing or else tell you why not, at which point ~you'll fucking know why not~. see ?
mp_en_viaje: if you don't know whether your lamp is broken because the power plug's dead, the cable inside is fucked, or the lightbulb dead, you don't first built a spaceship out of that lamp and "see then". you replace the lightbulb first, see if it fixes it. then from there, ONE THING AT A TIME.
mp_en_viaje: omfg act to reduce unknowns. RATIONAL BEHAVIOUR it is called. the fucking reason you, as a serious engineer, try things ~one at a time~ rather than in random configurations is that you're trying to reduce unknowns. not to nurse old unknowns into survival and perhaps even invent new ones ?!
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 20:24:25 lobbes: still ain't a mp-endorsed castle either. I figure that time may come one day, but that time isn't now as far as I can tell.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 18:57:52 asciilifeform: lobbes: if you want to emphasize that it's a mp-endorsed castle, put the deed in the chan subjline like in #a.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 18:57:15 asciilifeform: lobbes: #lobbes is imho preferable to the other. (seems to be the de-facto standard presently)
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939872 << yeah, the trilema-name thing is rather an artefact of "how to do what http://trilema.com/2019/concedo-hoc/ does before we have it).
mp_en_viaje: one of those excellent things the w3c retards did by accident.
mp_en_viaje: then if later the sorting mechanism sorts them otherwise, meatviewer will show a diff Q-selection, while all the while mechanical viewer sees the same N
mp_en_viaje: and yet another final thing : having fixwidth block display elements affords you a very good solution to the exact problem you're dealing with : how to put N elements in space for Q elements. what you do is, declare the fixwidth block element with the display widh you wand and with content of the N element ~sorted somehow~. then on display block element will only show the first Q, leaving the rest offscreen ~but still on the
mp_en_viaje: as it is the 6m from eulora bleeds into spyked/7h block
mp_en_viaje: since we're doing visuals, imho the time delay should be on the tooltip not on the actual page. that way you can have two lines even. but if you want to keep the time on display, imo the chan-time tuple should came in ~individual~ single line wrappings.
mp_en_viaje: in any case, it's narrower than the actual log on my screen. imo the "<meta name='viewport' content='width=device-width" you start with is correct ; but if you're not willing for some reason to apply the implicit scaling throughout, at least pick an arbitrary pixel size (1024, 1280, whatever viewports most commonly are in your view) and use that.
mp_en_viaje: ived from something it very much is not making identification a lot more doubtful than they need to be, it's like nominalist sabotage ; 2. you specify a fixwidth, in FUCKING EMS. wtf, ems are for glyphs, it's like giving your height in delta-pascals.
mp_en_viaje: one final thing : it's not clear to me exactly if img.inline { margin: 0.5em auto 1em auto; display: block; border: 1px solid black; width: 34em; } is how you opted to specify the header for the logger site. if so, it's dumb for the following reasons : 1. that it's not called anything like that, or even anything arbitrary, but something mechanically-ineptly der
mp_en_viaje: but then again there's a reason they came up with an euphemistic name for their idiocy in the first place. leftards claiming capitalism doesn't work is like oligophrens "preferring to be called" beautiful lip people, pretending speech doesn't work.
mp_en_viaje: and list how much the current listed paid you, which'd be as it stands 0.
mp_en_viaje: alternatively, charge a fee for listing, by adding a small "be here" link, leading to a page, explaining that everyone there is there by ahving paid, and if you pay more than the one who paid least you get the top spot for as long as that lasts.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 18:34:20 asciilifeform: sumthing clever ~will~ have to be done w/ the header , 7 might even fit right nao, but 8 defo won't..
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939870 << so add the first however many fit by last-updated in there, and permit "hacked" url notation anyway. eg right now "trilema" as listed links http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema ; but http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/xxx works in any case, whether it's listed or not, so all's good.
mp_en_viaje: you have the "awkward"ness cutter, fucken use it, wtf are you trying to recreate esltard existence ?
mp_en_viaje: if you don't put any teeth behind the whole thing it'll collapse into chaos.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 16:27:36 asciilifeform: lobbes do you want it logged by the orchestra ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 16:26:11 asciilifeform: atm the hand-operated sync only feels practical because there is very little traffic in most of the chans. if all 6 were burning hot 24/7 , could take many hrs of frustrated cranking to actually sync'em all.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939856 << you will notice that the whole echafaudage is specifically design to keep the world-elements at a low roar. if everything ran hot 24/7 i'd be seen in corner sharpening axe for imminent beheadings of misbehaving lords that failed to produce castles or w/e it is they failed to do -- in any case the situation's failure.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 16:08:48 asciilifeform: so, to complete the picture, this algo is guaranteed to work correctly if a) one of the peers actually contains the complete log segment for time T .. present b) no one speaks in the interval while it operates c) the timestamp T correctly represents the cutoff
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939824 << b specifically may be "the one girl with the one pubic hair with one crabs egg on it" sorta item, as it seems to carry the capacity to bring the whole system to criticality.
mp_en_viaje is not necessarily convinced that this is important or necessarily a goal ; but seens nothing wrong whatsoever with the attempt as such and has no objection to helping.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 16:06:23 diana_coman: asciilifeform: why use timestamps rather than log lines number though? I don't get how is that better at all; ie give syncer "last known ok line", should drop anything with id > that for the chan; then import everything with id > that from the reference
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939818 << i agree with this, make the index loglines if your whole thing is trying to order sets of lines by cardinal.
mp_en_viaje: pro-environment ecologically-minded left, amirite, in all times and places the principal producer of pollution in this world.
mp_en_viaje: the rms/ers/retardsonwheels brushing it under the rug, "oh, you'll know when you see it" is probably the chief idiocy ensuring their loud, miserable, pollutant-ladden failure.
mp_en_viaje: this is not usually given enough thought (in the sense of, any, for the scope of "free and open" shitsource) -- but the most important part of software development is the construction of the rational basis of merge decisions.
mp_en_viaje: imo is better because at least creates ~a record~ of the type of problems we're solving which not only might spark refinements downstream, but will also constiute a phenomenologically blessed test set for any such refinements, permitting ~RATIONAL~ acception or rejection if/when it comes to.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 15:55:27 asciilifeform: folx w/ mathematical inclinations, invited to comment re auto-sync algo described in #o .
mp_en_viaje: in this manner all-1 operator response will result in the behaviour you specced ; and anything else will result in finer control (at the obvious added cost of bothering to paste a buncha 1's in a paste).
mp_en_viaje: then once this is done syncer spits out paste consisting of aggregate L in response to command given in 1, and accepts as response a succession of bits (0, 1) telling it which to take where.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939815 << how's this for a proposedly "better" algo : 1. syncer is given target T ; 2 sincer loads tip of T (as the whole day page, DP), compares to its own record ; 3. if comparison results in any difference, syncer produces list L in the format of #count, own line, T line and moves to 4. which consists of repeating algo for DP-1.
diana_coman: meanwhile an initial look at irc networks suggests they might be ~all about as lively as a corpse really; but anyways, oftc, undernet, espernet and dalnet seem to have made it to the top to be contacted in the coming days.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 12:46:59 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939710 << funnily enuff, the crypto-christians left behind in jp after missionaries expelled, mutated into such a bizarre fork chain that modern church does not recognize'em as anyffin at all ( they mutter unrecognizable chants , which at some pt in 17th c were latin , from phonetic crib sheets to this day... but elsewise resemble 'insular buddhist sect' very cl
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939807 << i beleive the ~self-petrification~ they invented on the basis of their understanding of saintly behaviours virtues and outcomes is discussed in the logs somewhere.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 12:42:18 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939730 << i thought turks mainly picked up youngest-sons for the yenicheri corps
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939804 << by now year is 1800++, turks failed to conquer vienna but succeeded in becoming even more polite than the vienese.
mp_en_viaje: yes, precisely as in story -- the subject of self-delusion AND HIM ONLY goes about the world "under spell" of "the spell".
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 12:33:01 asciilifeform: asks again, 'boy...' finally boy takes off helmet and utters : 'sir, i fess up, i dun know these things, cuz i aint a REAL WELDER!!!'
mp_en_viaje: not even a matter of "want the job". we've nobody even remotely capable of running such a thing, thereby the job is "accrete more people, especially non-male, non-engineer, non-maleengineer-retarded types"
mp_en_viaje: on the flimsy grounds that worked ok last we tried it, if naught else.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 12:18:34 asciilifeform: !Qlater tell trinque do you think you can get ben to reappear for long enuff to properly appoint tbf successor ? cuz imho a heavy bag o'coin attached to a beheaded tbf is unseemly and the orig charter offers no gc mechanism for it
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939794 << this is a problem ; probably the best solution's some kind of receivership.
asciilifeform expects that 'adult' synctron will be nearly as complicated as the logger per se...
asciilifeform: come to think of it, the syncer oughta have a timeout , for when a peer is in connectivity limbo
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ftr none of the pipe deaths so far have been long enuff to murder my 24/7 shell. but still annoying in re bot.
asciilifeform: ty BingoBoingo , broadcast the barf as it comes in
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The complaint is still escalated with emphasis on the pipe not having been near this unstable in the past
asciilifeform: when wake up, may find other omissions.
asciilifeform: further re syncer -- it oughta warn if logic proposes a non-empty drop set but peers fail to offer fill which covers at least it.
asciilifeform: meanwhile in the analogue room -- asciilifeform already found a logical boojum in sync demo -- will not fetch tails for chans where nuffin was proposed to drop. ( easy to fix, but i've not enuff wake-hours atm to do it just nao )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: They're wrestling with international carrier. Will let you know when there's news.
lobbes: asciilifeform: for when circus festivities end, I have three sigs for the three latest patches to the logotron
asciilifeform: that is, when selected from the page
asciilifeform: these actually display as same line in readers
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 21:21:59 lobbesbot: trinque: Sent 8 hours and 47 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> do you think you can get ben to reappear for long enuff to properly appoint tbf successor ? cuz imho a heavy bag o'coin attached to a beheaded tbf is unseemly and the orig charter offers no gc mechanism for it
trinque: sorry for the gagged deedbot meanwhile; that outage caught me in the middle of a multi-channel experiment
BingoBoingo: Datacenter has been contacted. Going to visit the rack.
asciilifeform will bbl in ~1h, if pipe is standing will sync logs, until then errybody to diana_coman's
asciilifeform: i find it mighty 'coincidence'(tm) that for year+ we get 24/7 pipe, and then put a logger and nao dulap-I treatment.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'ma ask that you put a flame to the necessary arse tomorrow
asciilifeform: aaand there it goes again
asciilifeform: outage apparently over, but, annoyingly, bvt's patched bot did NOT correctly detect the disconnect.