asciilifeformtrinqueagriculturalsupremacyossasepiaspykedeulorapizarrotrilema
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mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-02#1939649 << maybe shit's just too incredible to be taken on faith, gotta sit here see the magic happen to believe.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-02 13:52:44 asciilifeform: ( hey spies, y'know you can simply read the log ? )
feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y06/0a4-targoviste.html << The Tar Pit -- Trgovite
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-02#1939654 << sorry, what ? did i miss something here ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-02 14:05:26 mod6: asciilifeform: I don't see a reason to keep it up, because it isn't being used. Let's let mircea_popescu weigh in on this though. Anyway, I'm totally fine if you want to invoice the foundation for what you spent on it.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-02#1939660 << for my own archival needs i am satisfied the pope didn't so much "lose" china as... got to keep italy (and most of the old spanish possessions).
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-02 16:26:10 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-02#1939609 << dug up a source this this and it's pretty interesting. apparently the papal idjits lost china very similarly to how lost japan.
mp_en_viaje: think for the sake of argument how "not losing" china'd have looked : 2/3 of cardinals born over there within less than a century ? last italian pope in 18th century ? last euro pope so long ago nobody over here even remembers it ?
mp_en_viaje: it was, amusingly, the chinese emperor who lacked subtility ; not that i fundamentally disagree with his first pass evaluation. but it is he that's the simple native in the relationship, on last examination.
mp_en_viaje: japan nonsense immensely less defensible on these same lines, of course/
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-02#1939685 << which makes it easy to forget (not that i'm defending it).
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-02 20:36:24 asciilifeform: lobbes: imho it really aint too much to ask, for folx to mark version in the piece being altered, considering that bot has own version (changes moar rarely than reader)
mp_en_viaje: the one advantage of http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-02#1939683 as a general policy of the republic would be that it'd permit more meaningful / informative version reports. ie, "snsabot bot I am bot version 596907, "added mustachios and removed pistachios", by dillaudildo." in lieu of "snsabot bot I am bot version 596907."
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-02 20:35:30 lobbes: wonders if it is worth it in next patch to have bot.py simply parse the MANIFEST.txt for version number emitting
mp_en_viaje: !q version
snsabot: I am bot version 596907.
mp_en_viaje: took me a while to figure out wtf there's a spurious "bot" in there. honestly asciilifeform i don't think adding text after the name is acceptable. maybe a [B] prefix for the name ? ie instead of "snsabot bot I am bot version 596907." do "[B]snsabot I am bot version 596907."
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-02#1939700 << yeah!
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-02 23:48:52 lobbes: but indeed, top priority for me right now is getting mircea_popescu's bot complete. Hopefully fleanode weather + data center gnomes will be kind in the meantime
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939703 << seems rather likely the derivation's similar to miriste (which yes, from mir, "world")
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 02:30:34 feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y06/0a4-targoviste.html << The Tar Pit -- Trgovite
mp_en_viaje: same story with n-iște f-iște [cine] etc.
mp_en_viaje: as always, romanian "dictionaries" made by tards, deeply unqualified to be away from munca de jos : https://dexonline.ro/definitie/miri%C8%99te quotes some imaginary bulgarian "мерище", that aside from not actually existing in bulgarian (there exists a town in Країна Хорватія whose name's thusly spelled IN UKRAINIAN though, of course, of course), can't even possibly be
mp_en_viaje: the root, seeing how me ain't EVEN CLOSE to mi. not AT ALL, not even vaguely how these things work whatsoever.
mp_en_viaje: anyways, the etymologically closest english for miriste would perhaps be "real estate". it derived through different paths and ended up co-opted into different usages by a very differently built up imaginarium ; nevertheless it's what it is : cunt in its used up state, the world autumnal.
mp_en_viaje: anyway, tirgoviste, "marketness". what both london and washington ever aspired to be, yet never figured out how to state.
mp_en_viaje very much protests re http://thetarpit.org/uploads/2019/10/targoviste-04-thumb.png creepy designation. not creepy at all, just... has had a hard life, but nevertheles... is very happy to see you! 
mp_en_viaje: re Vlad IV, one notable aspect could be that he was at least 70yo when he died. puts things in perspective, doesn't it, to think that he was certainly alive by 1425 and yet only ascended in the 80s. supposedly this sorta longevity wasn't supposed to be possible, at the time, at the margins.
mp_en_viaje: dude died of natural causes while everyone else around him mexican standoff'd each other.
mp_en_viaje: thar shit about the turks cruelties and barbarities whereby they came by the hundred to "kidnap" a woman and some children (ie, her owner reclaimed her) and otherwise stole some bees and ~THREATENED~ to rustle cattle (who the fuck warns of this, srsly now)...
spyked: mp_en_viaje, must admit to not having read most of the chronicles of the time, but still irked by locals' attempt at turning voivods into national heroes. "mihai had the purpose of reuniting romanian principalities" my foot.
mp_en_viaje: yes ; but in blank wholesale countermanding of rural naivity one doesn't end up with a nuanced worldview. ends up with symmetrical rural naivity.
spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939727 <-- really liked the house, but dunno why current owners decided to put a scarecrow (scarehuman?) at one of the windows. prolly because largely abandoned? there were similar houses in town in top shape.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 03:56:24 mp_en_viaje: very much protests re http://thetarpit.org/uploads/2019/10/targoviste-04-thumb.png creepy designation. not creepy at all, just... has had a hard life, but nevertheles... is very happy to see you! 
mp_en_viaje: it's somewhat a pity he was born before they figured out how to make houses, thus he's just as useless in practice as yest's discussed schloss.
spyked: mp_en_viaje, /me hoped to find moar about these in the museum of history. unfortunately museum had trouble keeping the lights on, let alone present interesting deeds of vlad iv. and it was like this most places, they simply kept lights off until we showed.
mp_en_viaje: but what can you do.
spyked: *showed up
mp_en_viaje: anyway, vlad 4 aka"the monk" seems rather like a local stoic, in the aurelian tradition.
mp_en_viaje: but data is scarce (mostly becayse rotards too stupid to learn turkish, go to istanbul, read archives ; and nobody else gives a shit so far)
mp_en_viaje: but above recipe could readily make an ACTUAL romanian scholar, whom the rest of the rotards could pretend doesn't exist and "be surprised" etcetera, like they do.
spyked: lol. at least they have a phd at sorbonne.
spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939722 <-- huh, indeed. niște/fiște didn't pop out, /me went straight to miriște/bobiște/cânepiște
spyked: woops
mp_en_viaje: now you've dunit
spyked apologizes to diana_coman for the upcoming headache
diana_coman: fixt!
diana_coman: at least bot reconnected properly so I didn't http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-02#1939638
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-02 12:16:49 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-02#1939617 << this is how i ended up with an almost entirely broken reconnector for 40d, lol
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-02 03:41:29 diana_coman: bvt: no worries; I'll first just make the changes, deploy and see how it keeps on; though it took ossabot ~10 days before it fell down at all.
bvt: asciilifeform, diana_coman: i have reuploaded the reground vpatch with version in bot.py set correctly
diana_coman: bvt: thank you! signed and mirrored: http://ossasepia.com/reference-code-shelf/?b=active_disconnect&e=#select
diana_coman: and bot re-deployed, pressed to latest head (aka bvt's vpatch)
diana_coman: !o version
ossabot: I am bot version 597604.
diana_coman: I agree with the spurious "bot" though; now it reads "ossabot bot", ugh.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 02:58:08 mp_en_viaje: took me a while to figure out wtf there's a spurious "bot" in there. honestly asciilifeform i don't think adding text after the name is acceptable. maybe a [B] prefix for the name ? ie instead of "snsabot bot I am bot version 596907." do "[B]snsabot I am bot version 596907."
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939717 << this is bug, i'ma take a look shortly ( and bots already were marked in grey, no need at all for any other marking )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 02:42:17 mp_en_viaje: took me a while to figure out wtf there's a spurious "bot" in there. honestly asciilifeform i don't think adding text after the name is acceptable. maybe a [B] prefix for the name ? ie instead of "snsabot bot I am bot version 596907." do "[B]snsabot I am bot version 596907."
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939704 << q was re the tbf telephone thing.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 02:30:35 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-02#1939654 << sorry, what ? did i miss something here ?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939706 << this is a point
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 02:31:53 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-02#1939660 << for my own archival needs i am satisfied the pope didn't so much "lose" china as... got to keep italy (and most of the old spanish possessions).
asciilifeform: fixed!! in current copy; will cut patch shortly
asciilifeform: literally single-digit typo
asciilifeform will give it another read before patching..
asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, PANZERS! logotron www updated !
asciilifeform: 'sept_errata.kv.vpatch' fixes the barf detailed earlier .
asciilifeform: active_disconnect_r3.kv.vpatch , + asciilifeform's , bvt's, diana_coman's, sigs, mirrored.
asciilifeform: i find it interesting that folx immediately assumed the bug were a feature, lol.
asciilifeform: was in reader, rather than bot; lobbes , diana_coman , no need to reset bots.
asciilifeform: ( tho i'ma reset mine later today, to display correct ver )
asciilifeform: !q version
snsabot: I am bot version 597604.
asciilifeform: ^ done
asciilifeform: ok, whole thing nao current .
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939720 << this possible; but alternatively via мера (measure, via μέτρον naturally)
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 03:16:55 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939703 << seems rather likely the derivation's similar to miriste (which yes, from mir, "world")
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939703 << ftr there's at least 1 торговище town in ru .
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 02:30:34 feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y06/0a4-targoviste.html << The Tar Pit -- Trgovite
asciilifeform: via slavic торг , trade ( торговец -- trader )
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939728 << the old libertard trick of presenting life expectancy as a scalar is as elementary as '3 card monte', ~nobody falls for it unless 'wants to'
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 03:47:32 mp_en_viaje: re Vlad IV, one notable aspect could be that he was at least 70yo when he died. puts things in perspective, doesn't it, to think that he was certainly alive by 1425 and yet only ascended in the 80s. supposedly this sorta longevity wasn't supposed to be possible, at the time, at the margins.
asciilifeform brb:teatime
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939760 << oh, well, i figure the people not calling won the stalemate with the people not making a foundation -- so no further use for it. if we re-do it later it'll be a different number for a real foundation
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 10:24:07 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939704 << q was re the tbf telephone thing.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939777 << a "me" will not be imported as "mi", because of complicated ethophonetic considerations that are directly and easily explained by reference to uncanny valley. man might take mulatto wife, but will not take corpse wife. even if was white in life, and gray is closer to white than chocolate.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 11:24:40 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939720 << this possible; but alternatively via мера (measure, via μέτρον naturally)
mp_en_viaje: deretica (prob ultimately from de-radicare) not diretica ; descurca not discurca (even through very likely from incolicare -- because conflict with discourse) ; melc not milc ; jertfa not jirtfa while sila not sela ; veac not viac ~even though pronounciation is almost there, writing still has not followed~. and so ongoing.
mp_en_viaje: there is literally no case of consonant-e- root from slavic that became consonant-i in ro.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i'ma have to buy, cuz unequipped to comment in detail just yet
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939785 << not even to disagree w/ mp_en_viaje's comments, but hey mod6 there's an even moar elementary problem : ben_vulpes went to bottom of the sea, and you haven't filled his throne yet (per charter, oughta)
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 11:35:51 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939760 << oh, well, i figure the people not calling won the stalemate with the people not making a foundation -- so no further use for it. if we re-do it later it'll be a different number for a real foundation
asciilifeform: !Qlater tell trinque do you think you can get ben to reappear for long enuff to properly appoint tbf successor ? cuz imho a heavy bag o'coin attached to a beheaded tbf is unseemly and the orig charter offers no gc mechanism for it
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform wonders whether bvt , trinque , hanbot, or spyked might want the job
asciilifeform reminds readers that he is not in any capacity in tbf and cannot formally nominate anyone . matter is entirely in hands of mod6 , tho he'd be wise to consult mp re wat-do imho.
asciilifeform: in apropos sovok folklore :
asciilifeform: once upon a time, a drunken construction crew left behind a welder's hat. a little boy picks it up and puts on;
asciilifeform: he walks along the street. suddenly a van stops, and inside there is pedofag , 'hey boy, like candy?' boy -- gets in.
asciilifeform: boy still wearing the helmet. driver asks, 'kiddo, do you know what the penis is ?' boy, puzzled, 'no sir'
asciilifeform: asks again : 'boy, do you know what is to cum?' boy, again, 'no sir'
asciilifeform: asks again, 'boy...' finally boy takes off helmet and utters : 'sir, i fess up, i dun know these things, cuz i aint a REAL WELDER!!!'
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939730 << i thought turks mainly picked up youngest-sons for the yenicheri corps
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 03:52:06 mp_en_viaje: thar shit about the turks cruelties and barbarities whereby they came by the hundred to "kidnap" a woman and some children (ie, her owner reclaimed her) and otherwise stole some bees and ~THREATENED~ to rustle cattle (who the fuck warns of this, srsly now)...
asciilifeform: ( and chix, but from designated breeding grounds which afaik at no pt included wallachia & co )
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939710 << funnily enuff, the crypto-christians left behind in jp after missionaries expelled, mutated into such a bizarre fork chain that modern church does not recognize'em as anyffin at all ( they mutter unrecognizable chants , which at some pt in 17th c were latin , from phonetic crib sheets to this day... but elsewise resemble 'insular buddhist sect' very closely )
snsabot: Logged on 2019-10-03 02:35:01 mp_en_viaje: japan nonsense immensely less defensible on these same lines, of course/
asciilifeform: there's of course a set of much later converts there, via the usa conquest, but these have sumthing like proper translations.
auctionbot: Buy order # 1061 has ENDED: 1209 Wired Filthy Fiats, WU is fine but not preferred SOLD by bvt for 151mn ecu. Attn: BingoBoingo
lobbes pats auctionbot
lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939767 << nifty! I will apply patch later today (submerged in saecular liquishit atm)
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-03 14:30:00 asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, PANZERS! logotron www updated !
lobbes thanks bvt for his regrinds and efforts
asciilifeform: folx w/ mathematical inclinations, invited to comment re auto-sync algo described in #o .
snsabot: (ossasepia) 2019-10-03 asciilifeform: diana_coman: this is correct, and in fact is moar serious, from mathematical pov, problem , than appears at 1st glance
diana_coman: asciilifeform: better state it here though
diana_coman: asciilifeform: why use timestamps rather than log lines number though? I don't get how is that better at all; ie give syncer "last known ok line", should drop anything with id > that for the chan; then import everything with id > that from the reference
asciilifeform: diana_coman: aite. proposed algo , is a manually-triggered item that 1) takes a 'breakage point', i.e. last known correctly logged line represented by tuple [chan, index] . 2) finds its timestamp 3) drops errything in db postdating said timestamp 4) walks list of peer loggers, fetches for each enabled chan, errything from last-known-idx i to i+500 5) 4 is repeated until returns <500 6) then takes the ~longest~ such result, from the s
asciilifeform: et of loggers that returned valid outputs 7) eats.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: idea is to sync all chans , rather than having to fire per-chan.
diana_coman: ah, you mean the timestamp as cross-chan reference point locally
asciilifeform: correct.
asciilifeform: so, to complete the picture, this algo is guaranteed to work correctly if a) one of the peers actually contains the complete log segment for time T .. present b) no one speaks in the interval while it operates c) the timestamp T correctly represents the cutoff
asciilifeform: (c) in particular may be violated if there are recently imported (from peer loggers) lines in the db .
snsabot: (ossasepia) 2019-10-03 asciilifeform: diana_coman: there is 1 potential point of danger re the described syncer -- if the 'break line' chosen was ~itself~ imported from another bot, it may result in unwanted droppage ( there is no guarantee of monotonicity of timestamps except as written by ~one particular~ bot, atm )
asciilifeform: (b) may potentially be violated during any given shot .
asciilifeform: (a) may be violated if one of the loggers is not merely missing lines but is in some way broken .
diana_coman: in principle if one runs it with bot *disconnected*, a talk within the sync interval simply requires a re-run rather than breaking anything, no?
diana_coman: or hm, the "longest sequence" may be misleading
asciilifeform: diana_coman: entirely correct, re disconnected bot ; though someone may speak ~as it reconnects~
diana_coman: true; honestly, the only reasonable sync that I can see is literally bots talking to one another ie ...gossipd, no?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: if one or more of the peers contains the truthful record of the interval, the 'longest' algo will select that peer.
asciilifeform: trouble starts if ~all~ are broken.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: ultimately yes
asciilifeform: tho even then you would have to impose conditions re what happens when 2 or more peers disagree.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: my point re misleading longest sequence was if new talk in between getting sequence from a and from b, causing b to be longest just because latest retrieved; anyway, I don't think it can be done a whole lot better at this level really.
diana_coman: ie for what it is, it's fine.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: hence why i will not propose it as a fully automatic mechanism, i.e. part of bot reconnector.
asciilifeform: if diana_coman et al know how to turn this algo into one suitable for automatic operation, i'ma take off my hat, and write it.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: no, I don't think it can safely be fully automatic or not at this stage at least.
asciilifeform agrees
asciilifeform: re 'b may be longest because it heard N+1st line before others' is entirely valid point btw.
asciilifeform: if someone speaks while this algo is carried out, correct result can ~not~ be guaranteed.
asciilifeform: it is given strictly as a mechanized version of the thing we do presently when a bot falls.
diana_coman: aha; and as such, it should ask for operator confirmation before delete + insert
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: absolutely must ask.
asciilifeform: and atm there is no way to weasel out of the work of manually checking the result against yer personal running session.
asciilifeform: ( it's the only way to avoid missing a line that was 'in flight' as the proggy ran, elementarily )
diana_coman: tbh that's the main reason why I didn't reach for "automate it" - because a lot of it still remains manual; it's more this multiple-chan the trouble perhaps than anything else.
diana_coman: anyway, I'll read & try if you publish it
asciilifeform: diana_coman: even if only had 1 chan, same fundamental problems apply.
asciilifeform: ( aside from the timestamp thing )
diana_coman: asciilifeform: I meant that multiple-chan is the part where automation wins here; otherwise retrieving the lines + drop/insert is anyway semi-automated at best for the above reasons.
asciilifeform: atm the hand-operated sync only feels practical because there is very little traffic in most of the chans. if all 6 were burning hot 24/7 , could take many hrs of frustrated cranking to actually sync'em all.
asciilifeform: incidentally, lobbes seems to have made a 7th ?
asciilifeform: lobbes do you want it logged by the orchestra ?
asciilifeform must go to meat, bbl
diana_coman: asciilifeform: true re very little traffic in most chans as only reason why one can still sync manually, yes.
lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-10-03#1939858 << hm, that channel is/was intended to serve as my cvasi-castle. Registered it some time ago and copied the naming format ala "#trilema-mod6"
ericbot: Logged on 2019-10-03 19:43:07 asciilifeform: lobbes do you want it logged by the orchestra ?
lobbes: however, I'm considering simply registering a "#lobbes" in its stead. However, haven't yet gotten to it due to the need to go through the rigmarole of registering it with fleanode, setting all my bots to +o, etc.
lobbes may just bite the bullet and do this tonight, actually
lobbes: once I make that switch, I would not mind it being logged if folx are willing to log it
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/10/dutch-bulletproof-host-down-eurocops-plea-mirai-botnet/ << Qntra -- Dutch "Bulletproof" Host Down, EuroCops Plea "Mirai Botnet"
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2019/10/dutch-bulletproof-host-down-eurocops-plea-mirai-botnet/#comment-142060 ftr.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: ty
asciilifeform: lobbes: i dun have any problem w/ including your castle ( is it properly proclaimed castle via mp yet ? btw ? ) -- tho may have to fiddle w/ the htmlism so all 7 actually fit in the header . lemme know when yer ready to deed a signed copy of the archival log for it, to be eaten.
asciilifeform: sumthing clever ~will~ have to be done w/ the header , 7 might even fit right nao, but 8 defo won't..
asciilifeform: even the 6, i found will spill on some very small screens
asciilifeform: lobbes: #lobbes is imho preferable to the other. (seems to be the de-facto standard presently)
asciilifeform: lobbes: if you want to emphasize that it's a mp-endorsed castle, put the deed in the chan subjline like in #a.

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