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(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: didn't you talk to them when you picked it up? ie you expected to pick up a pile of components and ...it wasn't that so ?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: thing is, this sort of "helpful ticos" is precisely how they make the worst messes, the "helpful clueless" so ugh.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-22#1013694 - hm, what do you have in mind as "business around tmsr os"? I get the impression you mean something quite clearly defined but I don't really know what.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: do return the visits some time too though, at the very least.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-21#1013686 - well, talk to him since it's anyway better for you to talk to intelligent people; and don't worry either way, let him figure out (or not) stuff, what.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: go ahead; and enjoy!
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and maybe you do write this year that hunting thing too or you'll start 2020 with an audio article le gibier manque et les femmes sont rares
(ossasepia) diana_coman: heh, write the right thing, yes :P
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I'd say a. write at least a few articles that are exactly focused on working out one single concept b. after that aim for one of those that bring several together but if you want some help,better come with the outlines first and ask.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: heh, I need to leave in ~5 minutes anyway
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ah, right; hm.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: what do you mean by "write clients"?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: oh yes, copy writing is a sort of anti-writing, yes; (for my sins, I know it better than I wish I did).
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: what practice do you have with writing anyway (other than the private journals, I mean for others, reports, anything)?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: I'm sure you read a lot (and a lot of times) and so you have quite a wide view and can reference properly but you lack yet the practice structuring it all and making a clear argument in writing there, hm.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and at all times, if you are aiming to write something *for others* ie not to work out the concept for yourself but to help others see stuff clearly, then you need to a. be already fully clear on all the points you want to make (and I mean this in a very specific way, there's a lot to it) b. think through and choose the best structure, not just "top two " or something.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: that is part of the required steps *before* you can actually write the sort of thing you were trying to write there.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so: it's all right and even very good to write stuff down to work out the concept, just as you said here: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-20#1013626
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: listen, you really need to start with smaller steps here, you are trying to step over what seems to you a tiny bump but it's a ..mountain, lol.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: thing is, you didn't quite explain that either; you put them in, sure, but explaining them, hm.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: uhm, your article though was supposedly focused on tmsr-os so first of all you should have made clear first the link tmsr-os -> identity+money
(ossasepia) diana_coman: (the alternatives weakening would be again towards "the larger environment" but still more remote and weaker really)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: how did you choose the structure ?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: but getting back to what you wanted to say: the "create greater incentives for the individual to strengthen himself" is the weaker version of my "tmsr-os strengthens both individual contributors directly"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: well, that part is easy really: read it to someone from outside and see what they get;
(ossasepia) diana_coman: heh, what do you call it when you read 1001 things and you try to distill it all in ...what do you have there, 500 words? lolz
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: do you think my summary there doesn't fit your text?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: the way you go about it, it's what tends to happen at first attempts - you end up with just the top of some whole tree at best and nobody can follow or tell what it was about.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: listen, you are trying there to do essentially synthesis and that's one of the ...more difficult things to do properly and clearly, are you aware?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I could guess, sure; had about 3 guesses at it, lol.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: that sentence just doesn't parse at all, I just couldn't follow what you were trying to say.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: trip to Santa Cruz sounds like a good break too and sorting out needed stuff anyway.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: sounds like a productive day yesterday overall; the limit to 120 channels on freenode means one bot per 120 channels and/or walk the chanlist over a longer timeframe (aka first 120 chans logged over January, next over February and so on if absolutely must); re list on netsplit.de certainly, it's that one I had in mind anyway (didn't realise you weren't aware of it).
(ossasepia) diana_coman: if only I had already the proper client with smg.comms and everything ready too, argh.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: such surprises you keep to :P
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: awww, why not follow up, seriously; that's quite the important part, if you are to get anything for your trouble really.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: just to be clear, I don't mean at all to "preach", no; but literally talk to people, find out what they are up to, and only if they ask at all, mention any of the things you think are most interesting for them anyway, from the coolness of "own os" to btc wallet or computer graphics, dunno.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: what came out of it, anyway?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: when was that?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: as in ...actual people or sheep-people ? :p
(ossasepia) diana_coman: interesting or interested? lolz; anyway, why not talk to them at least, see where they are and what they are up to?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: or for that matter, aren't any of your former colleagues at stuyvesant or mit doing anything interesting ffs?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: not directly related but at least it pinged now through my weirdly wired thoughts: you mentioned (to lobbes I think) your alumni mailing list and similar; is there anything interesting happening *there*?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: by definition of "interesting"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: eh, then they are not yet doing something interesting :P
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: also, you made me curious - what's a "dorion and jfw type" anyway?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: even that is quite finegrained as it is.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: sure, such cases may exist, some chan coming alive with 2-3 people once per week or dunno; but if it doesn't happen at least ONCE in a month, I'd say it's really not worth anything.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: so what? I'm not after snooping on what people happen to say every other time in a blue moon/wherever they hide from mommy or something.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: if anything, I suppose the holidays season would make perhaps for less activity
(ossasepia) diana_coman: it may be different exact 4 weeks for different chans, that's not a problem in itself.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: eh, I want it to log one month of each and every chan that exists, not as much to create new ones now, what would that do?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: well, you should certainly know that max number of channels the bot can handle, heh; and then it's not ONE bot but a fleet so they split the chans as needed, no? in extremis, you can further simply cover subsets on different time frames.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: what is "too large" and why?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: let it join, what; collect data for 1 month and then see; if it gets kicked from a chan, let the chan be, not like I want to force anyone now out of the hole they enjoy, what.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: from the other side too, why would it NOT join a channel, anyway
(ossasepia) diana_coman: not sure if anything more than that re each chan, at least not without joining so...
(ossasepia) diana_coman: afaik you can get the list of chans
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: well, I don't even know *what* information you can get automatically from each network.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: well, you don't need to plan it ALL upfront really; for one thing it might very well be that each network has its own specific requirements/whatever so ..
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: should add: the article doesn't quite make the ideas & points all that clear first of all; the lack of setting them properly to work comes after.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: what's your current plan re networks and chans + joins?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-19#1013526 - so to answer your stated question: I think you are trying to make the point that tmsr-os strengthens both individual contributors directly and the larger environment; you have some concrete ideas & points as to how and why but your article doesn't really marshall them in any orderly way.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: basically up to that 6th para you seem to jot down your own notes rather than saying something clearly.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: e.g. "A strong individual identity is unique and expensive to replicate which generates signatures that are expensive to forge" - what??
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: on a 3rd re-read of your +ev article, it strikes me that it seems to actually start going somewhere only at the 6th para really; and some of the previous ones are quite incomprehensible.
(trilema) diana_coman: so then I have no idea what it is.
(trilema) diana_coman: might as well towards-purposing all along; that's not at all what "republic of men, not laws" means to me.
(trilema) diana_coman: BingoBoingo: I really hope this case is not going to be argued on "perceived signals of decision A vs those of decision B".
(trilema) diana_coman: and moreover I don't think it's signalling that should be a concern really (in this case or in another).
(trilema) diana_coman: BingoBoingo: uhm, no, I don't agree on either points.
(trilema) diana_coman: anyway, I admit by now I'm quite curious as to what the others in L1 have to say.
(trilema) diana_coman: ugh, I don't like much this precedent on precedent alone but maybe that's just me.
(trilema) diana_coman: in the case where MPEx does not pay him out, I don't see how he has a say into what happens to the coin so I fail to see how is that part meaningful; if he wants the coin to be paid to asciilifeform entirely then he can do so once he gets it, no? if he doesn't get it, then he can't say what is to be done with it.
(trilema) diana_coman: BingoBoingo: looking at it from the other side, do you mean to say that if someone comes tomorrow willing to pay 30 btc to have some issue heard in the forum (on which they also stand to possibly get more than the 30 btc as the most favourable result) then it follows that they submitted to tmsr?
(trilema) diana_coman: ftr I do NOT mean that he shouldn't get the coin or anything of the sort; I literally mean what I say above namely that I don't see how does that qualify for submission.
(trilema) diana_coman: that's where I find it hard to buy the "submission" thing, at the "get it to use it outside" bit.
(trilema) diana_coman: BingoBoingo: as things stand, he is at any rate after getting the coin to use outside tmsr; because can't yet "find time" or whatever; sure, some price to pay for getting it out, that much his actions acknowledge + some appreciation for asciilifeform's work, certainly.
(trilema) diana_coman: BingoBoingo: it's not about what I "want" to call it.
(trilema) diana_coman will think of it some more.
(trilema) diana_coman: hm; I think it shows non-agressiveness; whether submission, I don't quite see it.
(trilema) diana_coman: so basically he wants to give 10BTC to asciilifeform out of the coin he otherwise was even rather ready to consider lost anyway.
(trilema) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-19#1955792 - how do you reason to get to the conclusion that the qntra contribution is cheaper alternative? The way I see it, the choice clearly spells that mike_c considers the 30 btc as the cheaper option compared to putting in the effort& time on qntra for the interval you requested.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: you should point trinque to that at the very least.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: also, you should provide at least some checksums for those archives you mirrored.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: there are some vpatches with sha and some with keccak, seriously??
(ossasepia) diana_coman: you're welcome.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: all right; take that time then and let's see what comes out of the re-evaluation.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: more than just not sustainable, it's also not best even for you getting where you want to with tmsr os itself; this was my original point re "not in isolation"; for one thing it's quite a central item anyway; for the rest, you need to integrate a lot to figure out a path for it too so narrow focus won't work best even if it were sustainable by itself (it does sound more like leading to burnout but anyway).
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: how do you mean/see this balancing?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: you'd be surprised re "all left" ie some may have left and there's still plenty just waiting to get there instead and "live the dream"; it's exactly that after all, more of their own imagination than actual cold fact.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: do you find you'd rather spend all the time on tmsr-os reading/writing/thinking and so you cram the rest only if/as needed on the side? because frankly this is how it looks like from outside.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: a question you certainly asked :)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: heh, now you want me to pack your whole article in a sentence on the spot too?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: and at MIT too? iirc there's actually at least a former highschool classmate of mine at MIT, lolz.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: ha, Romanian teachers @ Stuyvesant! I had no idea, lol.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: and you know, postponing the deadline is something to do the day before, not one hour before the deadline, as I'm quite sure you know already.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: that much is clear re tight schedule; the q though is why do you keep pushing everything so it's ~always on a tight schedule quite predictably.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: fwiw I had quite some trouble following the +ev article; read it twice and I think I got more or less what you wanted with it but I'm not so sure how much sense it makes for someone who doesn't already know what you are talking about there.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: re deadline there's a few questions for both articles of yesterday really; how did it go anyway? (iirc on Sat we touched briefly on this and the timings; there was no update so "everything is fine")
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: myeah; at the very least review/re-read before you start on it since it does seem like your idea of what you were aiming for tends to change without you even noticing it.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: exactly; why or how does it end up morphing like that without notice?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: enjoy your holidays jfw !
(ossasepia) diana_coman: trinque: after reading the latest OS related thread in #t, it does seem to me that there's still a lot that should be discussed in #t though; tbh thinking on this, I'm not sure there's a single place for it *all* ie I can easily see different threads (all related in some way or another to "tmsr os") belonging to each of the chans really (#trilema, #o, #trinque).
(trilema) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-18#1955640 - the only possible way I can see is exactly as it seems to be set to go aka negrated may find someone to speak for them and based on the arguments presented a decision will be made; not sure what more can be directly said/specified upfront and in general.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: does your wayside article fully cover what you said it should?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-19#1013496 - myeah; trouble is your prioritising tends to end up along the lines of "which ball did I drop already, will pick it up now rather than later?"; way better to prioritise so as not to drop any to start with, you know?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: eod sounds good, looking forward to the article and then gradually the data & finally exploring this as it's been sitting around and waiting to get done for some time.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-18#1013490 - I'd like it in here as I can follow then more timely; some threads though might still belong in #t (eg if MP's input is needed); at any rate, I do follow & read all chans currently (if a bit slower on others than #o and #t at times).
(ossasepia) diana_coman: asciilifeform: comment liberated, will answer it soon too.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-18#1013483 - re-genesis with the self-test is certainly better than nothing; other than that, you could I suppose just run my ada-keccak as ref since that's the practice anyway, isn't it?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: heh, not complaining though, no.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: yes; and the rum to not-help.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: but there was also some jet lag and all the rest, indeed.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: the "went to bed earlier" didn't quite...work out, no, lol.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: that being said, it was rather... exhausting overall.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: re ~5am in CR, that's pretty much the hour I was up each and every day of those 2 weeks I was there (+ even in the streets it was easy to notice that everyone had the schedule essentially earlier than the usual in Europe); the light was enough for the wake-up-at-5.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: it's just my initial thought on it really, so I expect there will be more discussion on it esp as things get moving otherwise, certainly; the main thing though is that in this/similar, I fail to see much use/space for ebuilds/portage/very-similar.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: makes sense.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: (then again, do note that my eulora work has consisted up to date mainly of figuring out and trimming a ~500k+ clusterfuck, so possibly on the heavy side in terms of tangles.)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: or if it helps, maybe look at it from the other end: what would you want to have on one page to read to get you quickly back up to speed when you come back to it?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so I end up listing all sorts, including constraints (why I wanted to do this and not that) and wtfs
(ossasepia) diana_coman: because - or at least the way I work - there's a lot of thinking before/in those "tasks" and it's mainly *that* part that is painful to lose/have to pick up from start again (or even remember that uhm, I was thinking of that/this/the other/pondering)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: tasks in flight and planned as you say sound good but also ideas/why
(ossasepia) diana_coman: yay, question! jfw, this is a bit of an iterated/person-specific process really but essentially what I found I'm aiming for is to jot down the main bits of context really
(ossasepia) diana_coman is looking for that... question mark.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: well, I can always bait you with a lot of discussion of your own code and then you'll get online.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: kind of curious if you'll find it harder to write after the break :D
(ossasepia) diana_coman: prolly better off calling it "I'll be offline but I'll try to at least read the logs"; makes for closer-to-likely-reality expectations all around.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: what's your plan re chan and blog over the holidays?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ... of the tree ie a reader/signer's thing rather than a system; ie possibly even different grinds of "my OS" since anyway, tmsr-os or not, it's still up to each user what exactly they run on their machine.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw, dorion_road while I haven't really spent time specifically pondering the v-shape of a package management system, I think it essentially stems from that fundamental "each V-tree" is the context of its all vpatches; as such, for one thing there isn't an "automatic dependency resolution" external to the v-tree because what would it do anyway, mess up trees or what exactly? and the problem otherwise switches more to a proper grind ...
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: do a write-up of whatever you have already on ebuilds, just so it doesn't go to waste; take Gales and install it + report on it and remember that it's basically an accelerated lfs + you might still get direct help from jfw and/or dorion_road if you get stuck (and ask, ofc).
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: cool then.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: so take that action each and every time! and yes, better said like that.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: anyways, to coordinate a bit here so poor lobbes doesn't end up entirely confused: from tmsr-os perspective, would a Gales-installation report be more useful atm than a beginner's take on ebuilds investigation?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: if only you'd wrote about it at that time :P
(ossasepia) diana_coman: esp if it actually inspired you to read yours, just how exactly you ..."forgot"??
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: tsk; do link refs already, don't do the silly "forgot to link" stuff.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: btw, comment in your mod q.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: well, that's the good type of going over time then; hopefully it will get even longer & you'll simply split it in 2 installments/articles if needed.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: and note that lobbes is basically saying precisely that he's not all that competent technically either so make up your mind there re what does installing Gales do anyway - you can't simultaneously claim that it didn't do much for you re getting a good technical grasp and at the same time suggest it to lobbes for..getting a good technical grasp, you know?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: ah, I wasn't trying to push jfw into doing it all, lol; just meant that you *can* pick his brain to help you get a better vision there esp as he's the authority on Gales, what.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: not to mention that gales is his so...
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ha, jfw can't claim the "isn't as informed technically"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: to ask it from a different angle too: in what way do you think the automatic dependency resolution of ebuilds may carry over directly to tmsr-os given its v-package management?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: fwiw I rather doubt it'll be either terraforming portage (I expect it would be a huge task really) OR directly using Gales' system as such; ie what I see missing there is some thought/root of thought into the V-shape of this
(ossasepia) diana_coman: you are possibly in the best place atm for it anyway since you know Gales' system + you have some idea re Portage as user if not about internals; but from your article there, I don't really get any idea beyond "there's portage and there's gales" and we need something.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: what's your current vision for this particular part (I guess it would be Package Management from your list)?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: good he asked some more then, heh.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: for that matter he actually did ask you - did I miss the answer to that?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: re ebuilds I mean.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: so what are you after from him as a first report?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: would you rather he writes a report on Gales first than on ebuilds? what's exactly the priority/goal/status re ebuilds anyway? I'm getting a bit confused now re this part as I didn't keep it in head to this level of detail.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-18#1013367 - did the writing go overtime as in spinning on it or as in had more to write so kept on writing?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: what's your current deadline+deliverable for the ebuilds investigation anyway?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: (although I think I said the above some 10 times at least by now, apparently didn't quite say it in the logs so now it's here to link in the future, too.)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: understand also that for almost ~any practical work/project, you'll always have to ride this double-beast of a. making the most of what you *already* know b. learning and improving your knowledge+skill as much as possible as you work.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ... anyway unclear if the ebuilds system is going to be of any use so the task there is *exploratory* really, not more and as such, it's something that can & should include documentation/research as needed, without dropping it all; 4. you can *use* lfs as a resource to learn, it doesn't have to be a project by itself.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: to be explicit: it does sound like a good idea and a reasonable way to get you to figure out the basics, yes; at the same time though: 1. you can't now take the next 6 months to figure out what linux is; 2. you already did *some* investigation of the ebuilds system and so you should at the very least wrap that up and publish whatever you figured out (for yourself at a later stage if for nothing else); 3. at this stage it's ...
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-18#1013362 - when do you think you'd be done with a lfs exercise?
(trilema) diana_coman: !!v 04D6F1EB1CCD6139827C8879D2AEC35D467971FEC08CC3992586DB019A999DE1
(trilema) diana_coman: !!v BD9DB780CFBB636859EB99F94202AE51AC5098FE63D28FC9D1A58A40B3C5BFF9
(trilema) diana_coman: !!v 0D55D205FBDA56C46413B06D0B1E39DC4B55842A52B4E1E8B12C505A7D76A0FF
(trilema) diana_coman: !!v B48BDF4ACFA97D549A9DF00FCB3C72D25F5EA29B24976CE4317A5F2064C64117
(trilema) diana_coman: !!v 65767CE701462226C3BFB1FA2B5E5F1AD8C7B004D31AE8E0FC9CE20F64BBCA0B
(trilema) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-17#1955528 - ie, I find I simply can't answer this in the form stated.
(trilema) diana_coman: !!reputation mike_c
(trilema) diana_coman: BingoBoingo: my main trouble is not at all with the payment, in principle, but mainly with the notion of a single, clear meaning for "negrated", to start with.
(trilema) diana_coman: yeah, had just cross-typed.
(trilema) diana_coman: I suppose not even the extreme actually, no, hm.
(trilema) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-17#1955528 - thing is, even "the negrated" is not an entirely clear thing for me; I could see it as "loss of citizenship hence of rights" at one extreme; it is however just that - one extreme.
(trilema) diana_coman: BingoBoingo: btw my "infuriating" was precisely caused by ^
(trilema) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-17#1955517 - I can fully see this, usually a sort of "can pick and choose".
(trilema) diana_coman: I have to admit that I can't quite see a way one would go exactly about making a decision based on a case argued on this sort of thing but then again, it would be the first so I don't find it all that surprising that it's not clear upfront, ofc.
(trilema) diana_coman: BingoBoingo: I can see at least from one angle how&why you'd structure the proposal precisely as you did; at any rate though, it's your proposal and your consideration of the issue so if the exact reasoning behind it is to be explained, it will be explained by you, surely.
(trilema) diana_coman: no, not at all.
(trilema) diana_coman: BingoBoingo: I get the impression there's some parallel talking here, lol; I wasn't linking my "infuriating" with your proposal, lolz.
(trilema) diana_coman: having refreshed my memory with the concrete dates and multiple missed questions/enquiries has been tending towards very infuriating indeed.
(trilema) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-17#1955541 - I have to admit that I rather considered this sort of situations to be more a matter between the people directly involved and as such it didn't seem to me that there was a need for some sort of upfront decision.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-17#1013345 - btw, this was *yet another one* of those asking-without-asking; jfw if you keep at it, I'll start thinking I'm enabling bad habits by even tolerating those at all.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: for that matter if the new model is deployed sooner rather than later, I'll re-rate dorion_road's travel key to 2 as well so he can speak as he needs to, what.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: sounds all good.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: I can rate your travel key, not a problem.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: the main trouble with "implicit" is that you can (and will) conveniently ignore/change it/lie to yourself about it, that's how it goes; so yeah, explicit & written down.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: better explicitly than implicitly for sure; and several lessons/collection of them, sure.
(trilema) diana_coman shall be mulling this over for a bit.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: so which of a,b or c above you reckon it will be?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: To be explicit: there are just 3 options there, namely a. you drop the work quickly and painlessly now to pick it up painfully in January b. you set down the work carefully and time-consumingly now to pick it up easily in January c. you don't do either and therefore take the work (or parts of it) with you on holidays too, whether you sit down to do any of it or just carry it in your mind anyway.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: jfw: what's not clear at all from your current plan is what are you going to do re work and holidays, esp since the wallet is not going to be ready before you leave, is it?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: btw that review of time in tmsr is fine as an overview, still missing the conclusion part where you look at it all as laid out and attempt to figure out some concrete lesson to learn from it, moving forwards.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: yeah; basically you are able to do way, way more than you have the habit to choose to do.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: cool, glad to hear it.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: meant plan* and review.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: dorion_road: I didn't further comment on your blog and review as I think they got quite covered during Saturday's discussion; is there though anything specific in there you want to ask about?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: works.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: it can wait until you have postgres running too and you publish it all in one article, not a problem
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: sounds ok but you should write-up the above and publish on your blog really.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: spyked: thanks! and wb.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ah, the checker should be enough, yes.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: if it turns out that there IS this problem, we can *then* decide what to do about it (there are plenty of solutions really).
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I'd say give it first a go without bothering much about this and we find out at least if it is a problem in the first place.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: that being said, the trouble is more that if there is such nonsense, it will not be neatly defined like that "in every channel" but some inane "oh, I saw this too many times" or something; perhaps it helps to set it up on some znc so it doesn't flicker much but other than that I'm not sure there's a lot you can do against nonsense as such.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: hmmm, not sure why exactly would they be bothered by a nick that is in every channel really? ie it's not spamming or anything so..?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: what I want out of this is a systematic exploration of the irc space; proper data and then we see from there.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: if you need to/think it's useful, you can even launch a fleet of bots so they join different channels with different names or whatever, that part is entirely up to you.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: does the above make full sense?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: open-ended question really.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: collect all data and store it properly (so you know what is from where and when) & then proceed to analyse it and see what's there.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: ie you want to make sure you cover (gradually, sure) all networks and all chans in a network + for a reasonably long time, if at all possible
(ossasepia) diana_coman: as a result, the *systematic* part is quite important
(ossasepia) diana_coman: it's not the idiotic "let us prove this theory" but the sane "let us explore and find out the state of the practice"
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: listen, the effort will be spent anyway, regardless of whether there are productive individuals anywhere to be found; therefore it should be structured upfront as what it is namely a systematic exploration of what is there;
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: eh, there's very little chance/expectation of that and moreover that makes for a rather poor goal in itself because it fails to ensure you get something out of the activity itself no matter what the outcome (which is not predictable/under your control);
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: no, no objection; do you understand the goal of this?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: given how many nicks are anyway ~bots ie just linger there, I can't possibly see what would be a reasonable objection to the bot logging but then again, I don't expect much reasonable.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: also, set it on some VM, hopefully that's obvious.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: I'm even curious whether/how many/where would try to engage anyway
(ossasepia) diana_coman: whaack: hmmm, for the lolz I'd do 2 and log who/where/if kicks you out and after how long but for the practical side, I'd just go with 3 for starters; just set a timer ie don't join at the same time all channels or something; there's a bit more to this in that you should adapt it to get the full list of channels for a network, set a timer and then join them gradually.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: no problem at all.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: DKordic: take your time as needed but also *ask* questions - still as needed.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: but seriously, not only "before vanish"; it's the good old "acknowledge stuff", ok?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: so you know now.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: as the Ro saying goes, "nu disparea ca magaru-n ceata" (~don't vanish like an ass in the fog)
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: well, at least the French pronunciation rules should have helped really; anyways, yes, you should have said *something*; don't just vanish like that.
(ossasepia) diana_coman: lobbes: seriously, what happened to you?
(ossasepia) diana_coman: DKordic: know also that you do not have to wait to "be ready" or "know X and Y" or something like that; the sooner you dive in, the faster you'll advance (provided you do make the right decisions and put in the required work, true).
(ossasepia) diana_coman: DKordic: you should register a key with deedbot too to ...start being someone around here anyway; see http://deedbot.org/help.html
(ossasepia) diana_coman: DKordic: there's about a ton of work to be done around here, from tmsr-os to eulora game, computer graphics and anything under the sun; the question is more along the lines of ...who are you really ? :)
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