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(trilema) mike_c: or brew one cup and go through http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/
(trilema) mike_c: artifexd: yeah, i don't know which way that bet is going to go, but it will be a bumpy ride.
(trilema) mike_c: 1 ATC block in the last 2.5 hours :(
(trilema) mike_c: it is a fund. you give money to mpif, it invests it in various bitcoin thingies.
(trilema) mike_c: bitcoin time.. it feels like forever.
(trilema) mike_c: jd isn't even a year old yet :)
(trilema) mike_c: and there is another block of 1mn sitting on the order book?
(trilema) mike_c: so you hold 1mn and everybody else holds 1mn?
(trilema) mike_c: those were new shares?
(trilema) mike_c: i thought the block of 1mn that sold was you selling your shares in mpif
(trilema) mike_c: tradingloser: if it makes you feel better, everyone who trades on those exchanges loses money.
(trilema) mike_c: not the only (or even the best) way to get rated
(trilema) mike_c: !up supay
(trilema) mike_c: mircea_popescu: did you change the price for the new shares to 21726?
(trilema) mike_c: 3po investors down 26%. go havelol!
(trilema) mike_c: ;;calc 0.2 / 0.0075
(trilema) mike_c: good pm's are not common.
(trilema) mike_c: just ship and fix it later
(trilema) mike_c: back to 2po price
(trilema) mike_c: looky there benkay
(trilema) mike_c: !t h rent
(trilema) mike_c: it used to work if you upped yourself
(trilema) mike_c: Apocalyptic: no. kako has this thing working pretty well now.
(trilema) mike_c: one piece i was missing is that you will allow the share price to grow. this is different from many funds that keep their share price constant.
(trilema) mike_c: ok ok. but this then all relies on you having a very good idea what your nav is at a given time.
(trilema) mike_c: ok. obviously we will see how it plays out. but mpif will make 15% annually, which may end up meaning a 80% cash balance.
(trilema) mike_c: in your example, 80%
(trilema) mike_c: yes. so this goes back to what i said about the fund will end up carrying a huge cash balance
(trilema) mike_c: it makes sense if the fund is going to return 50%
(trilema) mike_c: (i don't think that's my objection)
(trilema) mike_c: no, i don't think so.
(trilema) mike_c: the invested funds will grow. that is worth a premium. cash will not grow. so to keep the premium very small, cash must dominate invested funds.
(trilema) mike_c: that's what the general manager wants.
(trilema) mike_c: I'm going to try again. Funds can sell at a premium or a discount to NAV. You are basically saying you won't allow this above +/- 1.5%. The only way I can see to do this is to carry a massive cash balance in the fund.
(trilema) mike_c: that is my point. you are going to keep issuing shares until the ROI drops so low that nobody is willing to pay more than 5% over nav
(trilema) mike_c: ok, let's try this. so say this block sells out (the 2nd 200 btc). and now you stop issuing shares.
(trilema) mike_c: you issue more shares
(trilema) mike_c: ok, he buys all of it
(trilema) mike_c: this is now over 5% over NAV, so you issue more shares.
(trilema) mike_c: ok. NAV is 100 btc and there are 100 shares. investor projects fund will make 10% this year. He values this highly and is therefore willing to pay 1.06 for a share.
(trilema) mike_c: i am confused.
(trilema) mike_c: i don't understand why you want to keep the price so close to NAV. This thing is supposed to make money. that is worth something. if you issue shares until price drops to close to nav than the roi will be piddling.
(trilema) mike_c: now he needs a good price for nav
(trilema) mike_c: oof. nav is not a spot price..
(trilema) mike_c: all the pif managers are on the honor system. i assume suspicious behaviors will result in execution by general manager.
(trilema) mike_c: i don't think jurov is in a different situation than anyone else. BingoBoingo could trade the markets on his own book, hanbot could place bets with her own money, etc.
(trilema) mike_c: seems like if you raise more funds it will turn into the panacea/JD fund. the other pcs can't handle much more capital.
(trilema) mike_c: um, doesn't that completely change the fund? what would you do with the next 200 btc?
(trilema) mike_c: that seems like an opportunity for something
(trilema) mike_c: ooh, the pif liquidity manager runs a brokerage.
(trilema) mike_c: ok. that's not far off from what happened anyway i believe. couple big blocks sold.
(trilema) mike_c: kakobrekla: pif trades are flowing. thanks.
(trilema) mike_c: that bit4x email is great. "You are not too bright. All Best, Matic"
(trilema) mike_c: BingoBoingo: i intend to analyze in the morning. i'm about to pass out. i will let you know if i pull out anything revealing.
(trilema) mike_c: ah. hope its good news..
(trilema) mike_c: ;;calc 50 * 0.017
(trilema) mike_c: plus my posts have pretty graphs and shit
(trilema) mike_c: i could write faster but I'd have to use footnotes
(trilema) mike_c: what? i pump out at least one a month
(trilema) mike_c: easier to write perhaps, but not to read :)
(trilema) mike_c: benkay: yeah, other people (bitcoinpete) should take note.
(trilema) mike_c: no wonder you got hired as manager
(trilema) mike_c: holy shit BingoBoingo, you tore it up in Feb.
(trilema) mike_c: mircea_popescu: the bloomberg terminal? and it's tracking kraken?? nice.
(trilema) mike_c: BingoBoingo: i see it now, yeah
(trilema) mike_c: panacea is back in the game! JD's worst month was -24%.
(trilema) mike_c: some profit centers could handle more than others (panacea, JD)
(trilema) mike_c: i guess the market has decided on a price!
(trilema) mike_c: kakobrekla, mpex trade socket isn't reporting f.mpif. is that temporary or intended?
(trilema) mike_c: i was trolling tat before for his footnotes > paragraphs post
(trilema) mike_c: that is awesome
(trilema) mike_c: hanbot's entire blog: Five posts, ZERO footnotes.
(trilema) mike_c: BingoBoingo: ah, thanks. i will digest.
(trilema) mike_c: it was some good quotes from the trial though.
(trilema) mike_c: re: cuban, you started the article basically saying he was clueless :) i'm just a fanboy, so i was feeling defensive.
(trilema) mike_c: yeah. i guess if there were a merchant trying to use ATC he'd probably be the only one worked up over it. hey satoshijack, what you think?
(trilema) mike_c: bitcoin's biggest drop ever was 18%
(trilema) mike_c: "every altcoin goes through this" << yes.. and most of them fail.
(trilema) mike_c: BingoBoingo: ah, that's cool
(trilema) mike_c: pay the money, few days later a dusty box shows up from china.
(trilema) mike_c: yeah. there are a few "companies" doing bitmain reselling in US. that guy (112bit) has been doing it for awhile.
(trilema) mike_c: these guys actually deliver quickly (like couple biz days): http://www.112bit.com/product/antminer-s1-dual-blade/
(trilema) mike_c: or, 'someone'
(trilema) mike_c: BingoBoingo: how much hash you looking to get?
(trilema) mike_c: yes, well, i'd rather pay a miner 0.2 btc to let us down gently from this difficulty bump instead of completely change the coin.
(trilema) mike_c: one of the nice things about altcoin is that is bitcoin in disguise.
(trilema) mike_c: yes. can i be an amber member? platinum is so 2013.
(trilema) mike_c: i'd also like to hear more from mircea_popescu if he thinks this is a bad idea.
(trilema) mike_c: well, mining is a PITA. I would be interested to know what it would cost to get an option from some miners where they would agree to put some hashes on ATC when we want in the amounts we want.
(trilema) mike_c: mod6: and it will only check for commands at start of line?
(trilema) mike_c: hands-off management might not be the answer here :)
(trilema) mike_c: so having some TH/s in your back pocket to smooth out these kind of bumps still seems like a good idea.
(trilema) mike_c: and could result in the same problem happenning again
(trilema) mike_c: now the only way to attract would be to make it profitable at the new difficulty level, which is way too high
(trilema) mike_c: well, price support is nice. but it seems that can lead to what just happened. that is, it gets profitable and so a huge flood of hash hits the network, profit is taken, and hash leaves.
(trilema) mike_c: did you make any inquiries?
(trilema) mike_c: indeed. I wonder what it would cost to rent some miner's hashpower to smooth out the bumps.
(trilema) mike_c: almost all that hash power seems to be gone now.
(trilema) mike_c: atc diff from blockr. note recent huge spike. http://i.imgur.com/PqdZp0B.png
(trilema) mike_c: BingoBoingo: april 27 i believe.
(trilema) mike_c: no, few days ago
(trilema) mike_c: last diff change was like 200%, next diff change projected at -67%
(trilema) mike_c: it just happened.
(trilema) mike_c: so who is fucking with ATC? mined like crazy until diff change, then they all shut off. stupid pool hoppers.
(trilema) mike_c: outrageous viewpoints are more engaging! (see trilema)
(trilema) mike_c: tat you should live-ish blog, that would be interesting. and then you can capture some of those interesting conversations before they grow fuzzy in recollection.
(trilema) mike_c: 9 paragraphs, 11 footnotes :) you guys.
(trilema) mike_c: ^ open market seems to disagree with 3po price
(trilema) mike_c: <+fluffypony> the20year: just go and trade OTC with any of those people << if they give ratings for trading peanuts OTC
(trilema) mike_c: heh. nice.
(trilema) mike_c: static pages are nice that way.
(trilema) mike_c: but i'm thinking i'll whip up an includable .js that writes out the image and a supplied affiliate id. then affiliates can use it in their advertising.
(trilema) mike_c: but i have like, crazy traffic! BB might get swamped :D
(trilema) mike_c: well, i'm thinking BB might get mad at my server and rate limit it.
(trilema) mike_c: yeah, that would work. the default should be to grab from open bets (which it doesn't check right now).
(trilema) mike_c: proof of concept is slow & unstable (pings BB in background), but wouldn't be hard to make it solid.
(trilema) mike_c: proof of concept: http://www.btcalpha.com/bb_ad.png (reload a few times for dynamicism)
(trilema) mike_c: so, last night i was on bitbet and was thinking that it would be cool to have a dynamic banner ad that promoted bitbets. aspiring affiliates could use it to make big moolah.
(trilema) mike_c: ok, widget is fixed.
(trilema) mike_c: aw, sheesh. fricking widget is busted. who coded this crap?
(trilema) mike_c: cumulative ROI from inception, it can be hard to tease out useful info. idk.
(trilema) mike_c: there's a widget for calculating cum ROI across any timespan on there
(trilema) mike_c: this month was 4.4%
(trilema) mike_c: if you're curious, here's historical monthly JD ROI: http://www.btcalpha.com/income/
(trilema) mike_c: absolutely. just send me 1 trilema credit.
(trilema) mike_c needs more coffee
(trilema) mike_c: yes, would you like me to read it to you out loud? :)
(trilema) mike_c: good writeup. a bit harsh on mark, but he can take it.
(trilema) mike_c: mircea_popescu: i thought you'd like that article. i am a fan of cuban, he's good people.
(trilema) mike_c: a worthy read. many lulz at the expense of the sec.
(trilema) mike_c: hm, actually i don't know if he inherited or is self-made. self-made rich guys don't usually go quietly.
(trilema) mike_c: he's likely got enough money to buy some friends in gov'ment. it will be interesting. guys like that don't traditionally go quietly.
(trilema) mike_c: mircea_popescu: he might only have 50mn, his wife is making a grab too :)
(trilema) mike_c: mircea_popescu: nba owner is banned from attending games (even his own), and can't participate in league business. they are trying to get him to "relinquish" his ownership, whatever that means.
(trilema) mike_c: "Los Angeles Clippers owner Donald Sterling has been banned for life by the NBA in response to racist comments the league says he made in a recorded conversation."
(trilema) mike_c: a share of S.MG on havelock is worth 30% less than a share of smg on mpex. that is quite a discount.
(trilema) mike_c: magical beans didn't work for me.
(trilema) mike_c: ThickAsThieves: thedevilwearsbitcoin is down.
(trilema) mike_c: the worst part of dicks or gtfo is that the channel would be flooded with pics immediately..
(trilema) mike_c: fluffypony: you should see wikimedia. amazingly it is worse than wordpress.
(trilema) mike_c: the server is mining in the background, so extra cpu costs him btc.
(trilema) mike_c: fluffypony: you use disqus? so you are also shaming yourself.
(trilema) mike_c: kakobrekla: well, public shamings work better anyway :)
(trilema) mike_c: kakobrekla: you have finally shamed me into fixing my comment approval system. there will be no more spammers on btcalpha.
(trilema) mike_c: well, he can't up himself if no one rates him
(trilema) mike_c: ;;ident the20year
(trilema) mike_c: devilwearsbitcoin
(trilema) mike_c: first report being before may 5?
(trilema) mike_c: the lottery is slow but gets lots of volume for instance
(trilema) mike_c: that is the tradeoff i have ended up at. although less volume is not necessarily the result, but slower action, yes.
(trilema) mike_c: it'll be out before cardano :D
(trilema) mike_c: yes, unless you tell it to
(trilema) mike_c: bam, provably fair
(trilema) mike_c: now you can set your own client seed
(trilema) mike_c: ok, you get the hash for server secret. you want a new server secret? click a button and it generates a new one, shows you the new hash, and shows you the old secret.
(trilema) mike_c: but this doesn't break anything. because you can change your secret after the server secret is set.
(trilema) mike_c: you change the server secret, and he shows you the old one
(trilema) mike_c: the point is that you can verify at will (instead of having to wait a day)
(trilema) mike_c: i vote you :)
(trilema) mike_c: you can 'randomize' and get a new server secret anytime
(trilema) mike_c: no, the server one
(trilema) mike_c: which you can change at any time
(trilema) mike_c: pretty sure
(trilema) mike_c: um, actually each player gets their own server secret
(trilema) mike_c: the point being, i am not investing in the code. i am investing in dooglus. and he returned 4% in april.
(trilema) mike_c: investors still got 4%
(trilema) mike_c: so dooglus is skimming (which he's not i'm sure). who cares?
(trilema) mike_c: but, ThickAsThieves, it doesn't matter
(trilema) mike_c: and clearly is doing so. investors only made 4% in april! scamz.
(trilema) mike_c: you were supposed to reload the page.
(trilema) mike_c: i see no such spam
(trilema) mike_c: have they switched from calling you mirceau to marcel?
(trilema) mike_c: ah, the forum is just not worth reading without mpoe-pr. "On average your investment of one BTC on that platform will have yielded about 0 BTC (dividends included) by Autumn."
(trilema) mike_c: or maybe it will.
(trilema) mike_c: this will in no way create a black hole that takes all ur coinz.
(trilema) mike_c: there is going to be a stock that tracks the fund that tracks the bitcoin economy as a whole.
(trilema) mike_c: i'm sure they will find someone willing to take it.
(trilema) mike_c: so not bad for havelol
(trilema) mike_c: sf1 stock is down 15% from ipo in december, no dividends.
(trilema) mike_c: yeah. definitely a balancing act with how visible it should be.
(trilema) mike_c: it would be feasible to have a webpage showing your balances. that is perhaps not a good idea for a market maker though.
(trilema) mike_c: they got their mistakes out of the way with SF1. You need to jump on SF2, it's going to the moon.
(trilema) mike_c: there are so many good companies for them to invest in! they need more funds.
(trilema) mike_c: kakobrekla: perfect, thanks.
(trilema) mike_c: mpex actually did lose some investor funds according to rota :)
(trilema) mike_c: hm, JD seems to be down.
(trilema) mike_c: BingoBoingo's is going to be hardest to track.
(trilema) mike_c: i can't stop calling it pif. two syllables is one too many.
(trilema) mike_c: ;;later tell hanbot one easy way for PIF bitbets to be publicly auditable would be to use the same out address for all the bets. is that the plan?
(trilema) mike_c: kakobrekla, would it be troublesome to add a primary key to http://bit4x.com/panacea/history/? seems to me there isn't a reliable way to determine uniqueness. you could very well have two trades with the same.. everything.
(trilema) mike_c: assbot has to keep up with mp's line count somehow
(trilema) mike_c: assbot please send two donations
(trilema) mike_c: assbot please send donation
(trilema) mike_c: no x.eur's for sale.
(trilema) mike_c: ;;seen davout
(trilema) mike_c: such volume.
(trilema) mike_c: mod6 made a bot that lives in #altcoin. does a lot of cool atc stats.
(trilema) mike_c: but, other than that nitpick the contract read fine to me.
(trilema) mike_c: perhaps "The named individual is in fact at the time of this agreement the sole proprietor of MPIF and the operator of MPEx, and they were represented..."
(trilema) mike_c: it does not say public corporation. but you are issuing shares.
(trilema) mike_c: sole proprietor means you get all the money.
(trilema) mike_c: idk. 'sole proprietor' and 'public corporation' are mutually exclusive, no?
(trilema) mike_c: yes, just made me scratch my head for a second, and scroll back up to see if pif was a corporation.
(trilema) mike_c: sounds odd when disucussing pif
(trilema) mike_c: "The named individual is in fact at the time of this agreement the sole proprietor and operator of both named corporations,"
(trilema) mike_c: not worth the hassle?
(trilema) mike_c: artifexd: nethash is through the roof too. altcoin is just booming in general.
(trilema) mike_c: counterparty is the next nothing.
(trilema) mike_c: no, that's haveloc
(trilema) mike_c: <+fluffypony> when accountability can be controlled programmatically << that hurt my brain.
(trilema) mike_c: fluffypony: surely you can have URL patterns that don't get cloudflared? if not, stats.just-dice.com would work.
(trilema) mike_c: IP whitelists are just PITA for everyone. api keys are so much easier..
(trilema) mike_c: i like that idea
(trilema) mike_c: whitelist what, IP address? api keys would be nicer.
(trilema) mike_c: jurov: yeah, that would cool. if you provide it I will ingest it
(trilema) mike_c: i don't know if i'll go that route though. i hate web scraping.
(trilema) mike_c: ah. i thought about doing something like that with selenium. i haven't tried phantomjs.
(trilema) mike_c: oh? do tell.
(trilema) mike_c: i didn't feel like participating in the arms race
(trilema) mike_c: all of which breaks when cloudflare tweaks their page
(trilema) mike_c: yeah.. i've seen PITA ways with scraping the cloudflare response, grabbing the JS shit and posting some form or something.
(trilema) mike_c: i think that's an ipod
(trilema) mike_c: kakobrekla: interesting idea.
(trilema) mike_c: although i am sure you will get a mention/link when i cover s.mpif
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