asciilifeform: chances are, i won't find out which one it'd have been till i go to the woodchipper myself.
asciilifeform: good % of the reich moving parts consist of 'ngo' as it is.
BingoBoingo: The did go through all of trouble of fishing him with a sex worker instead of loading his drive up with pr0nz
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i dun distinguish in my mind 'activists' from other usg
asciilifeform: fwiw i have nfi whether it worked, but the fact that barrel is not part of the scheme means that no serious metallurgy needed, untempered steel worx ok for receiver
asciilifeform: ( none of which constitutes a mega-seekrit, any competent smith can make kalash. wilson's thing was different, n00b assembles 100% unpoliced cnc box, tabletop, from kit, and then loads in ingot and proggy )
asciilifeform: some % of the recent schematics, are for proper ironwork.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: right, but he eventually retooled and went to the obvious sane thing, cnc kit
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: IIrc, Cody's first dance was single shot plastic thing that required a 10 penny nail for the firing pin
asciilifeform: phf: i followed the recipe on ave1's site, lol
phf: asciilifeform: after failing twice i decided to read the readme lol
asciilifeform: phf: -cross is the build-for-arm64-on-pc but you prolly already knew this.
phf: is ada-musl-cross-2018-06-01 the latest version of ave1's ada?
asciilifeform: perhaps he paid for the hoster in advance, or whoknows, still tuned in quietly, but not known to me which.
asciilifeform: nicoleci: (possibly you already know, from reading l0gz) Framedragger was a briefly-productive fella who walked off into the desert coupla yrs ago; his www is (for nao) alive.
asciilifeform: ( for n00bz/non-aficionados -- 'receiver' is the part between stock and barrel, roughly )
nicoleci: asciilifeform: thanks - working on it now :) i wasnt sure how the links would show in the post
asciilifeform: ( ancient -- 1920s? -- laws, never cancelled, consider 'receiver' to be the usg-controlled item )
asciilifeform: it dun make barrels, only the back half of piece, but in usa barrels are sold openly
asciilifeform: mats: and the moar recent items not '3d printed', d00d sold a little cnc milling thing
asciilifeform: ( imho they also oughta be to something other than Framedragger's logtron, which i suspect is not long to live )
asciilifeform: nicoleci: couldja plz make the links -- clickable
asciilifeform: or even as mundane as refusal to play 'death ray seller' stooge role in $provocation-of-the-day
asciilifeform: btw ftr i suspect that the wilson d00d wasn't nailed for 'distibuting evil schematics', they're ~useless as is, but for refusing to sabotage'em and play gapon for usg
asciilifeform: ( even supposing they didn't -- the place from which hypothetical box originates, definitely does )
a111: Logged on 2016-12-03 04:37 asciilifeform: did they put the d00d who was picked up for 'child pr0n' the day he demonstrated the glock-on-quadcopter ?
asciilifeform: ahahahaha BingoBoingo , loox like they finally http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-03#1577246 him
a111: Logged on 2015-03-28 03:03 asciilifeform: for those who insist on balloons, at least study the state of the art: http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/41791.html/fusen-bakudan-balloon-bomb
asciilifeform: afaik the principal boojum that puts this in the 'prolly not happening' , is that ocean is not 'random', has strong currents.
asciilifeform: i also suggested to schwartz to place mesh radio in the bottles, but thread went nowhere.
asciilifeform: ( exercise for reader : compute the minimal necessary counter-force that gyro in a 5kg bottle must exert , to eventually converge on destination... )
asciilifeform: you power the gyro with the motion of the thing itself, in waves, a la japanese wristwatch.
asciilifeform: al schwartz at one time was into 'messages in bottles' , dropped in various spots from airplanes, tracked receipt ( many folx actually mailed in ! the postcard ). i suggested this variation to him.
asciilifeform: in gimbal. as in old icbm navigator. with the diff that its purpose is specifically to resist motion in the 'undesired' direction.
asciilifeform: incidentally re 'salmon goes fast enuff if yer patient!11' item: in asciilifeform's crackpot files, there is a gedankenexperiment, simplest possible sea propulsion, with 0 exposure of moving parts to salt : picture hermetically sealed 'bottle' with... gyroscope
asciilifeform: there's at least 1 public example of a ~papier-mache item.
asciilifeform: moar like '20s 'tank', where they welded sheets on vans
mircea_popescu: they're eerily reminiscent of early ww2 soviet "tank" production
asciilifeform: ( the publicly exposed examples, iirc carried 2, 1 spare )
asciilifeform: btw the columbians, as far as is known to asciilifeform , use standard gensets for power plant, and electric outboard for motile.
asciilifeform: 'wet exhaust' apparatus for the tailpipe.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understand cooling in ship is entirely different headache, how to keep salt from eating the exchanger
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pretty sure i got one of these here, grass cutter. air cooled tho, and even in cool air not happy to run for weeks at time
asciilifeform: i'd describe this as 'open problem', rather than 'physical impossibility' tho. conceivably a material exists out of which can be made 50kg diesel.
asciilifeform: and then talking about a 500kg torpedo.
mircea_popescu: as opposed to air, where there's only one solution : THIS big.
mircea_popescu: the point here discussed was material strength and ocean stress interaction, and why there's two solutions to the equation : large AND small
mircea_popescu: if they were one single 10 ton rubber ducking, it'd have been pieced.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the small float is safe thing : the ship that lost 10mn bathroom rubber ducklings at sea resulted in rubber ducklings amfibious landings
mircea_popescu: it's how the ocean goes, it has a double dip.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu; currently orcs steal 300 $ of hdd, rather than $10k of hdd + $20k of torpedo..
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if i lost your cargo would you cry more than if the orcs steal it like they apparently well might've ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform iirc the "small engine" item is recurrent in logs. prolly will end up in the worklists before foundry too
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: gotta factor in % of lost vessels + cargo, like the satellite people do, however
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm 100% sold that one ~could~ build. would 1st have to devise a 50kg diesel, i've never seen one, even aside from the matter of water etc
phf: asciilifeform: there's no "landed" in your scenario, continuous adjustment towards coordinates until picked up
phf: asciilifeform: even modern amateur launches rely on beacons, but design considered is very similar to my glider: once released avoinics' only concern is to aim for a particular gps coordinate, no "sq km. radius" involved, depending on the range of banking maneuvers to within <5m
mircea_popescu: why should it be programmable ? what, no p.bvulpes where these people live ?
asciilifeform: at any rate i suspect that the problem is not wholly engineering problem, in the sense where, yes usg torpedo (for piddling 100km range) costs $mil, a ru torpedo -- $100k, but afaik nobody's built a $1 or even $10k thing-that-sails-8000km , in which to economically carry $1k of cargo
asciilifeform: back when su spy sats dropped film bottles, they still had ( reluctantly, as it is just as asinine as it sounds ) beacons, because otherwise ~0 chance of find. even from chopper.
mircea_popescu: "i'm confused now... was the pink one your dildos and the gray one my books ?" "shit man... " "ok let's drop them overboard see which way they go again"
asciilifeform: what's to keep enemy from going to the beacon ?
phf: why qatar, mocky and beedog could just consult for the zetas
asciilifeform: q is whether it could survive a coupla trips.
mircea_popescu: the sea eats rubber. i hear that's why they don't have the toyota submerged cities yet.
asciilifeform: it's 1 of the few potentially sane use cases for pv.
mircea_popescu: "but mp, 1knot is booooring" "you know, the fish over there is the same fish as over here"
mircea_popescu: the other thing is of course speed. you, you're happy with 1 knot. the reason "modern yacht" has massively oversized engine and undersized tanks is because water is like molasses, and modern man is a premature ejaculotor. GOTTA QUICK!!!
mircea_popescu: the small robotic blocade runner tech is very immature.
mircea_popescu: anyway, you'll have to figure out a buoyancy thing anyway. whyt the fuck use ballast, when could use airtank. etc.
mircea_popescu: all reactos are the same size.
mircea_popescu: PeterL there can not be such a thing as "small scale" nuclear reactor
PeterL: just go to small scale nuclear reactor and then you don't need air, can just run under the water
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hence my "niggers nigger rig" comment. they don't have the clue to make what they need.
mircea_popescu: the tiny thing here discussed, a) can be easily stopped and b) the suckage isn't of the nature of golfball-through-virginasshole./
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the reason this doesn't work for the 40 foot planing yacht twin engine turbo bla bla, is because engine is fucking large.
mircea_popescu: no, the engine stops. not chokes, stops.
mircea_popescu: then engine stops.
asciilifeform: and 2m (sop) wave, all 4 submerged ? then what
asciilifeform: they're sucking, tho
mircea_popescu: suck with the ones not submerged.
mircea_popescu: nah, water keeps self out, as long as they don't suck.
mircea_popescu: put four on each corner, make them |= style, and let it be
asciilifeform: afaik there's a reason why torpedoes carry own oxidizer in all cases
asciilifeform: for the sake of gedankenexperiment : mircea_popescu how would you keep the air intake out of water in a 'surface torpedo' ?
mircea_popescu: understand : "standard" yacht, say a 33 foot boat, has ~5ton displacement, and its tank (150-200 liters) will take it say maybe 300 miles if driven 6-7 knots in calm weather.
asciilifeform: erry ~week they find, neh, some schmuck with cocayacht
asciilifeform: if we had the hands that are skilled in this, we wouldn't be having the thread nao, would we.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall the 'battery for flying 10kg to buenos aires' thread btw
mircea_popescu: more like at the butt of it, but w/e.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the columbian folx are at the forefront, as i understand, of this tech.
mircea_popescu: hitch two jerrycans together, one with the fuel, the other with the engine navigation and payload, and w/e, two weeks to port.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, small & thereby entirely undetectable surfaceboat (like the us army troop transporters, back in the day there was such a thing as an us army or troops) would prolly work perfectly well.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-19 15:19 asciilifeform: if new vtron allows mechanical preservation of ~continuity~ , i.e. i can determine mechanically that a reground tree is in fact same as the old but-for-the-hashes, then all is ok. but if not, this'd be essentially same as throwing past 3rs of historicity away.
mircea_popescu: what, granma used to hbe a gun moll, put a benjie in the card ?
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: didja ever ask that shop keeper ? << Their answer was sufficiently vague as to be useless
a111: Logged on 2018-09-19 15:20 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, I am still waiting on a birthday card from February sent through the post
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: also plox to clarify, at this point is the disk crate a total loss ? Will hopefully find out by Friday or Monday.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: also plox to clarify, at this point is the disk crate a total loss ?
BingoBoingo: Anyways, looks like the rest of this week is finding out how the plasticrap makes it in
a111: Logged on 2018-09-19 03:11 Mocky: construction workers for their 2022 world cup stadii firmly in gulag, unpaid for year+, dying at a rate of 1 every 2 days, according to The Guardian ~2014
asciilifeform: 'i represent $corp ! will call home, there will be problems '
phf: as BingoBoingo continues living in orcland and his subtle mannerisms lose the imperial edge the locals no longer perceive him as a white sahib, soon attempt to "back to work, nigger" him
mircea_popescu: what i meant by "mercantilism" is that they do not want the locals to leak dollars back into the ubers of the world.
asciilifeform: loox like mircea_popescu's old observation 'they wanna tax, not prohibit commerce' was optimistic tho. the orcs ~want~ to die
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i admit i was surprised to have been able to mail ~anyffing~ there, knew there gotta be a catch
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm quite looking forward to learning the answer to 'how big packet'
a111: Logged on 2018-09-19 13:14 asciilifeform: diana_coman: the way i'd do the size shuffle, is to use a kindergarten prng (e.g. mersenne) for repeatable sequence, and put ~in~ the packets, a serial num. then simply record what comes out.
mircea_popescu: why would i have baked into vtron something that a) is unlikely to ever be used again, past this year and b) works much better in bash anyway and is rather trivial to do
mircea_popescu: but the point is : given a sha tree, the operator thereby produces the keccak tree, and then the tool verifies these are the same, and there you go.
mircea_popescu: phf i honestly thought ~everyone with half hour's interest does have the ~same dozen lines of bash, and so neve rsaid a word of it. i dunno why he doesn't.
phf: mircea_popescu: i have a set of tools like that on top of vpatch/vdiff, but they are entirely expressable as a 5-10 line shell scripts, and their variety is multitude "convert this sha set to keccak set" "see if these two sets press to same" "press all the intermediate states into separate folders" etc. etc. but i think what he's trying to get is a tool that will say "these keccaks are same as these shas so you don't have to reread"
asciilifeform: or even entirely new people, should some be birthed.
asciilifeform: i can do it with shell ( as quoted from trb experiment list earlier ) easily enuff. but there is also the ~reader~ side, who wants to verify continuity.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why would IT do that ? you just purge the patches, hash and sign, and then have it verify
asciilifeform: (but for the hashes)
asciilifeform: and can produce a keccak tree from a sha tree, with the exception of the seals, in such a way that i can be assured that i'm signing same material.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i long ago gave up trying to maintain 'the one and only vtron' lol
asciilifeform: which complete kit oughta be able to follow the continuity of e.g. trb to day1.
asciilifeform: a new operator ( no , i dun think we've seen the last of new sane folx, tho mircea_popescu may disagree ) oughta be in possession of the complete kit when he sets up his vtron.
mircea_popescu: vcompare, takes sha tree and keccak tree, and certifies whether same tree or not same tree.
asciilifeform: oughta be same procedure as http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-April/000296.html , but in the tool, imho.
asciilifeform: i put 9000 hrs into reading trb, i do not have these 9000 to do it exactly same again nao.
asciilifeform: where the machine bakes 'same tree, new hash algo' and errything else is bitwise-same, then i go an' unsheath launch coads, and bake new seals.
asciilifeform: phf: no, per hash invocation. but loox like mircea_popescu dun like this method, would rather have the trees reground sooner than later.
phf: asciilifeform: please to clarify, do you mean that you can say run "./vpatch < foo" and if that fails you run it as "./vpatch -t sha < foo". or are you saying "./vpatch < foo" and it attempts to, internally, first keccak then sha?
asciilifeform: srsly, exactly same logic as in existing vtron, with the exception of 'when hashing, try keccak 1st, then sha, THEN compare equality, if found to be the latter, warn user, and if sha not enabled, eggog'
mircea_popescu: there's no by-patch state machine wtf is wrong with you.
phf: mircea_popescu: no i think he's saying "try to hash in both formats and then make a guess if one of the formats succeed"
phf: asciilifeform: the approach that came out of last thread was "explicit flag", i.e. -t sha/keccak, but attempting to hash both then choosing one if one succeeds or bail as you suggested is not bad, though dwimy
a111: Logged on 2018-09-19 16:22 mircea_popescu: think of the whole opposability angle, will you. 1. alf : "your summaries suck" 2. bimbo "master, is this true ?" now i'm stuck. i'm not going to do a 3.b. "yes, because i like him" and i can't do a 3.a. "yes, because ~SOMETHING~" as the something's an undefined symbol.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-19#1851696 << "granpa, why is this extension 75 characters long ?" "well see sonny boy, back in the day of planet earth they decided to keep changing it, and well... time passed, and wel... you now must type 75 characters of history you don't know"
asciilifeform: imho not being able to tell the 2 formats apart externally is ~moar~ pain
asciilifeform: already hindered in this way, tho, as cost of making the switch
asciilifeform: i'ma let phf clarify, otherwise it'll have to wait until i have a free hand and read his item properly, might be coupla days
asciilifeform: so this is in the current tool ?
a111: Logged on 2018-09-19 15:32 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-19#1851642 << btw mod6 , diana_coman , one possible cut of the knot would be if new vtron were to have algo where it tries keccak 1st, then if fails, tries sha512 and ~loudly warns~ ( can be off by default , and enabled on cmdline )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 1 other pill i was able to think of , was http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-19#1851674 , but i dun expect you'll find it much better
mircea_popescu: now as to new extensions... imo bad idea. there's manifests and things now.
mircea_popescu: this i believe is the only sane approach.
mircea_popescu: but yes -- the idea very sharply is : use keccak for new work ; whenever have the time and inclination move old work to keccak tree also.
asciilifeform: even ok with regrinding the udp piece
a111: Logged on 2018-03-25 19:40 mircea_popescu: follow the mainline. whole fucking point is to move vpatching to keccak mechanism. don't genesis on the old style why would you.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-08 00:05 mircea_popescu: keccak came out of that. it's all in the logs.
mircea_popescu: the idea was "no more new work on sha, regrind old work at leisure"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-19#1851574 << there was a whole thread about wtf, stop with the sha already, yes.
mircea_popescu: but the feeble mercantilism attempts they implement can't possibly apply to non-yokels, wtf.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Right, which means the next task is finding someone in DHL who can understand that. That I am a BUSINESS, man.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo dude, this is for their local morons. you're not a local.
BingoBoingo: "personas fisicas" also get to make THREE compras de exterior without taxes provided they are under 200 U$S and 20 kilos which can be tracked here https://aplicaciones.aduanas.gub.uy/LuciapubX/DECLARACIONES.Cargas.HWCantEncPostales.aspx and only shows an incoming test parcel I've got inbound.
mircea_popescu: but you're not from there ?!
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: DHL's line at the level I engaged them so far is "Personas fisicas" get 2 dispatched "compras de exterior" paying tax and all that. In spite of more than two already making it through thus far DHL's niggers are stuck on this. But there's another level of insanity to this retardation.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Not yet. Encountered another level of mud hut retardation.
nicoleci: wow you know, i was just about to say the same thing
BingoBoingo: MOTHERFUCKING NIGGERLAND COMMIE COCKSUCKERS
asciilifeform: resulting chimera is neither fish nor fowl, has all of the 'self-blessing' cocksureness of a general, and ~none of the technical ability of the old engineer, and somehow asked to fill in for both
asciilifeform: the pathology of current-day shit-engineering is imho twofold -- bureaucrats reacted to quack engineers, with poor upbringing, who 'i dun need no stinkin' spotter' by creating hybrid species , bureau-engineer, who 'i dun need no stinkin' book-larnin', i watched 'intro to rails' film' etc
mircea_popescu: this theory at least seems to work well so far.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform entirely possible. but the whole art then becomes : "how not to fuck onself over while in trance".
nicoleci: diana_coman: i think its what hanbot calls the bathroom :)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i suspect that the 'blinders' are to some extent an immutable cost of the process, required for the directed thrust at $problem. sorta how knife is only sharp on 1 , at most 2 edges
mircea_popescu: there was never a time ingenuity, specifically as this almost-endearing-often-infuriating-wilful-blindness was never part of the term.
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 20:29 asciilifeform: kanzure: i and ~50 other folx, lost jobs, because it proved ~impossible to persistently force $valuableprotein secretion in ecoli
asciilifeform: i suspect if baking were an affair where ~erry~ yeast cell gotta agree, or nuffin happens , or at the very least a horror in the vein of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1703881 , would resemble the engineer's toil
mircea_popescu: and this at a time when the major problem of the french was the resurection of socrates' daimon, "the genius in things"
mircea_popescu: profession ? i never yet that baker confused by the loaf of bread.
mircea_popescu: we talk about a pain. i go in with one idea, he examines and has a different idea. the quality of his examination is such that i yield in the process, and gladly. look that indeed, clinical practice does something, it's evident he's got a better scent than i had.
mircea_popescu: understand how professional medicine is : i am myself, and this fellow is a most eminent specialist in his field, with decades of practice in the us, and in his entire being as perfectly intellectually respectable as i could ever ask for.
asciilifeform: then agreed.
mircea_popescu: engineering never was an honest profession. much like medicine. it always wanted to be, and most of the time very earnestly tried to be. but it never actuially made it ; not at the time of the organixcally-multilayer-compensated grandfather clocks, not at the time of steam engine, not at the time of tanks and planes, not at any one time.
asciilifeform: rright and at one time surgeons spread peripueral fever erry day. but mircea_popescu for some reason does not say 'there never were surgeons, never quite got there'
mircea_popescu: they just wanted to get it across already!
asciilifeform: still seems to me that at one time there were engineers. built such things as 'great eastern' steamer etc.
mircea_popescu: meh, wolverhampton is actually in the midlands. whatever, switch in london and edinburgh, the point is -- one always has a further mind into which to retreat & even nobler suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune.
mircea_popescu: the next day, same man, same chair, newspaper tells tale of this wolverhampton rapist murderer arsonist & jaiwalker
mircea_popescu: nicoleci in the classical formulation, at a time when scottish-english rivalry was a poignant affair, respectable middleclass scot was depicted sitting in his tea chair with the newspaper, and reading about a linconlshire rapist and murderer
mircea_popescu: engineering is the donner party of professions.
mircea_popescu: it used to want to be, and enver got there.
asciilifeform: it's the tightest cage short of, idk, a vt100
mircea_popescu: there's over 9000, really...
asciilifeform: there's 9000...
mircea_popescu: there's more than one!
mircea_popescu: it is the regular shock of everyone here that everyone else here exists. prolly should be the topic, really.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'd say this formulation describes bureaucrat, not engineer, but yes i am aware that they've recently hybridized into a strange mule species, bureau-engineer
mircea_popescu: nicoleci PeterL has a point : start adding a log link to the summary lines, so people can look further if they want.
asciilifeform: at least give the poor critter a rs232 SLIP!111
diana_coman: <mircea_popescu> this seems even perfectly reasonable, who wouldn't want to be right, until you understand the undertone. which eminently was "and perfectly willing to put on the adequate blinders for this effect" -> imo that is better expressed as "only interested in not being wrong" - quite different from being interested in being right
nicoleci: my only hope is the dongle
mircea_popescu: check it out nicoleta, you're like the topic!
diana_coman: aha, got it; mixed up there, ok
a111: Logged on 2018-09-19 16:37 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: expand re the engineers point
diana_coman: or the engineers? lol
diana_coman: mircea_popescu> asciilifeform in the girl's own words, "only interested in their being right". -> is this re her summaries being right or what?
asciilifeform: *rather than
diana_coman: ah, as in: in them being what you asked of her? that's fine, sure
asciilifeform: rarest skill is -- to teach, rather 'be right'
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, well, how does she evaluate if they are right?
mircea_popescu: this seems even perfectly reasonable, who wouldn't want to be right, until you understand the undertone. which eminently was "and perfectly willing to put on the adequate blinders for this effect"
mircea_popescu: but yes, on spotcheck she could produce long form of ftp and deduce long form for isp out of "- mircea_popescu suspects that iptables is like php implementation of ftp - most people do not have their own isp"
PeterL: it would be much more useful if the summary included a link to the relevant part of the log, so that if an item is of interest one could read more detail
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: expand re the engineers point
mircea_popescu: i don't think she dares ask, partly because she spent most of her life with engineers and partly because check out how irrational the process became the moment she showed up. this not common, this, freebased cvasicriticism, in the annals.
diana_coman: tbh if I were to critique her summaries I'd start pretty much from same point as with the 5yo i.e. the way they are know they read as if she doesn't actually have any idea what those terms she uses there mean even at a basic level and she doesn't even flag them as such (i.e. "hey, this afiejif wtf is it???"); to the extent that it all ends up as mechanical re-phrasing, it's quite stupid
mircea_popescu: yes, the group is yet small enough and cohesive enough we can just do a deed and stuff.
PeterL: well, anybody interested would sign the diff-of-diffs, and then everybody switches to using the new format, no need to have it locked into the program if you are only using it once at the change over
asciilifeform: PeterL: as i currently understand : yes. but ideally this simple mechanism would be in the tool, rather than a http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-April/000296.html - style shell hack.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-19 15:19 asciilifeform: if new vtron allows mechanical preservation of ~continuity~ , i.e. i can determine mechanically that a reground tree is in fact same as the old but-for-the-hashes, then all is ok. but if not, this'd be essentially same as throwing past 3rs of historicity away.
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-19#1851661 << wouldn't you just get the vpatch from the old and new vdiff'ers and run diff on them, the only difference should be the hashes?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a great experiment, and imho entirely possible that the horse will eventually learn to sing.
diana_coman: all I insist on is that he either asks someone or otherwise check in dict for words he doesn't yet know
mircea_popescu: the renoirs in "where's the renoirs" were produced through the act of "here's this cappod'opera, summarize it"
mircea_popescu: what, they're not gonna fucking "understand" it ?! what, really, you understand the logs ? who the fuck understands the logs!
mircea_popescu: think of the whole opposability angle, will you. 1. alf : "your summaries suck" 2. bimbo "master, is this true ?" now i'm stuck. i'm not going to do a 3.b. "yes, because i like him" and i can't do a 3.a. "yes, because ~SOMETHING~" as the something's an undefined symbol.
asciilifeform: it is prolly too much to ask for kindergartener to actually grasp the contents of the academy of sciences minutes she is reading; but perhaps it is possible with help.
mircea_popescu: otherwise what is this, timeo mulieris et dona ferentes ?
a111: Logged on 2018-08-28 16:51 mircea_popescu: also, a) gotta start somewhere ; b) she's not working to impress you, she's working to impress me, meaning your only productive stance is "not like that, like ~this~" rather than "your work doesn't make the cut".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so did i! point in case : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-28#1845190 so far, they haven't!
asciilifeform: mod6: i dun like to discourage folx, esp. mircea_popescu's pupil, who is evidently pouring sweat into the job. but i expected the items would get better with time, and imho so far they haven't
asciilifeform: unrelatedly, am i the only one who reads these, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-19#1851562 ? some of these have atrocious mistakes, e.g. 'flashing the uboot with the dram from vendor did not do anything detectable' << rom, not 'dram', lol
a111: Logged on 2018-09-19 14:42 mod6: Before we embark on an entire regrind of the trb-vtree to use keccac, I think we just need a major release version of a "defacto" vtron that supports both SHA512 (for other legacy projects) and keccac. Sounds like phf's might fit the bill, but want to ensure that when the Foundation tackles this problem, it's on very stable footing.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-19#1851642 << btw mod6 , diana_coman , one possible cut of the knot would be if new vtron were to have algo where it tries keccak 1st, then if fails, tries sha512 and ~loudly warns~ ( can be off by default , and enabled on cmdline )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: do me a favour and cut out my orig postage addr before handing these to orcs
BingoBoingo: Pull the invoice off of the Amazon orders page and get it to me. I want to show the fuckers the line for the import tax deposit.