Anduck: is there a good summary of that whole neo bee casE?
Anduck: will they come?
fluffypony: and ThickAsThieves asked them to come here and chat to us
fluffypony: the (former) software devs are still figuring things out
ThickAsThieves: read the logs
ThickAsThieves: so the neo software guys responded, you'll like this
toddf: 'course not the nifty easy receiver mobile device and all that but hey, multiple paths mean more resiliancy right?
toddf: wonder when someone will skip the expense and simply start broadcasting bitcoin blocks via usenet .. which then can come to you .. from orbit ..
mircea_popescu: every single pirate investor "made money". until they didn't.
mircea_popescu: it's an exact restatement of "driving faster than i can handle the car while drunk is safe, because i got home alright"
mircea_popescu: (keeps everything, including the posts scamtalk.org mods try to hide)
mircea_popescu: yeah, it's the forum of record
toddf: yes I've followed the thread, same content as on bitcointalk.org
mircea_popescu: this is a poor argument. if you read the logs you'll see you're by no means singular in making that error.
ozbot: Chase Bank Slams the Door on More Porn Stars - XBIZ.com
mircea_popescu: said by a 6 yo puerto rican kid on the lam to a 50 yo retired blonde prostitute.
mircea_popescu: "Fuck! He don't know the score. He sees a dame like you and a guy like me. He don't know."
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: yeah, but I think the legal framework in the EU in general is more mature...ZA law is Dutch-Roman with some British influence, but there's lots of stuff that has only come about more recently (eg. modern regulation of securities only happened with the Securities Services Act of 2004)
CheckDavid: Haha. My total lack of knowledge of these expressions.
mircea_popescu: CheckDavid jus' sayin'. in the end you do what you gotta do, but always better if you know the score than if you don't.
fluffypony: someone eventually connects that the new company is owned by the other guy's brother-in-law...cue shitstorm of epic proportions, but they got away with it because laws.
mircea_popescu: one of them's smoking hot too.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony happens all the damned time. i know like... two lawyers that ever successfully litigated the sort of shit
fluffypony: fast forward 2 years and they "go bankrupt" and this new crowd that registered a business like a month ago "buys" all their existing contracts and databases and everything for $100 or something stupid
fluffypony: they exploded, dominated the scene as everyone referred their friends and all the home owners wanted tenants through them
fluffypony: there was a rental agency that had this awesome comm structure - find a tenant and you get half of their management fee for the lifetime of the tenant (they charge ~10% of the rent as a management fee)
mircea_popescu: informal only works if you're either part of the core or part of a group that can squish them.
fluffypony: otherwise after a year or two the company can "fold" and reopen to service all the old clients, cutting you out the loop
mircea_popescu: so that they DO generate lifetime comissions.
CheckDavid: The contacts I generate are supposed to generate life time commissions
mircea_popescu: in NO case do you work for a startup on a comission basis wtf is this, the land of where they get shit for free ?
mircea_popescu: anywya, if you're working for a start-up you want either equity or a salary.
fluffypony: CheckDavid: there is actually some precedent - I have a very good friend who moved here from Sweden to sell industrial cleaning equipment/supplies. he knows the cost of the product, and dependent on the size of the sale he can offer a discount to the client. his comm is based on the "profit" in that it's (sales - cost of sales), so he won't offer a discount on small sales but might determine it worthwhile reducing his comm on a larger sale
fluffypony: I mean, I can understand if there's a fixed CoS and they're calling (CoS - Sales) "profit"
CheckDavid: It just says profit in the draft
CheckDavid: Like. X% of the profit generated from my sale
CheckDavid: But confused me is how the commissions are based on the profit, and not on the sales volume or revenue
davout: mircea_popescu: i recall visiting some old farm, and being shown tools that looked rudimentary, but were in fact perfectly balances as to minimize the strain on the farmer
CheckDavid: It's startup in the it industry
CheckDavid: I was sent a proposal to represent a business in acquiring projects for them on a commission based rewards schedule.
CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: bunch of coolness in there
mircea_popescu: that's the best looking fucking axe i've ever seen
ozbot: Unique Ax Uses Physics to Make Wood Chopping Smarter, Not Harder | TheBlaze.com
mircea_popescu: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04/23/unique-ax-uses-physics-to-make-wood-chopping-smarter-not-harder/
chetty: doesn't gubermint and devious mean the same thing?
mircea_popescu: even if bounce would like us to believe they;'re smart, the record is actulaly that they're devious instead.
mircea_popescu: as teh observation goes, all nsa successes to date are social engineering, not mathematical.
CheckDavid: Oh. NSA kinda stuff then rifht,?
fluffypony: goes back to the NSA convo from yesterday
mircea_popescu: i suspect the reason why good crypto is a hassle on smartphones is exactly what one'd expect.
mircea_popescu: CheckDavid if you're doing business, then you're definitely doing business with someone here at some point, or with someone they know.
CheckDavid: Such a hassle to authenticate with gribble on a mobile device
fluffypony: there ya go :)
fluffypony: CheckDavid: go do some trades in -otc then? always good to have some historical ratings on the WoT
mircea_popescu: the idea is that if you don't trade you prolly don't need voice.
mircea_popescu: you gotta get in the trustlist of someone assbot trusts
CheckDavid: Glad I asked then.
mircea_popescu: otherwise because it was never considered
CheckDavid: Why not on the topic?
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user CheckDavid: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=CheckDavid | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=CheckDavid | Rated since: Fri Apr 11 12:52:24 2014
ozbot: The SOPS, or what might you expect from government clerks pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2013/the-sops-or-what-might-you-expect-from-government-clerks/ etc,
mircea_popescu: anyway, i don;t think the SOPS appreciate the seriousness of the problem. once people are actually willing to fight anyone you fucking name, to the death, your days are quite numbered.
moiety: what happened with the max keiser fight night thing
moiety: probably. the base mentioned, Leuchars, is closing too
moiety: i don't think they were planning dropping off manuls
mircea_popescu: Leon Humphreys remained adamant yesterday that his right to fight a champion nominated by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) was still valid under European human rights legislation. He said it would have been a "reasonable" way to settle the matter.
mircea_popescu: A court has rejected a 60-year-old man's attempt to invoke the ancient right to trial by combat, rather than pay a £25 fine for a minor motoring offence.
ozbot: RAF fighter jets intercept Russian bombers off coast of Scotland | UK news | theguardian.com
wywialm: yes, i did, i'm in the process of responding
fluffypony: moiety: top o' the mornin'
HeySteve: right. still about R4k cheaper, it's just the wait time
fluffypony: then
fluffypony: but it looks like they'll charge VAT
fluffypony: not sure what tariff heading they'll list it under
fluffypony: so you'll also have to pay their admin/documentation charges
fluffypony: CoinsForTech ship with FedEx (SupaSwift is the local agent)
HeySteve: ok so just the VAT thanks
ozbot: An7i Security: Pwn the n00bs - Acunetix 0day
benkay: off for the night, y'all. please break havelock for me
benkay: "semi homomorphic encryption and multiparty communication" is what the web tells me this snake oil is called.
benkay: asciilifeform: your wisdom and insight on the topic much appreciated to boot.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
benkay: ;;later tell mircea_popescu "homomorphic or semi-homomorphic" encryption, where 3 parties each control one computer working with the other two in lockstep to solve the problem.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
benkay: ;;later tell mircea_popescu let me tell you about this crazy thing some crypto cats were banging on at me about today. given a company who's interested in genes and a uni with a giant set of genes and phone numbers for each, how do you match the people with the company without the company revealing what sequence it's interested in or the uni the people's gene sequences?
bitcoinpete: "Here’s the straight dope: you ain’t that great, and you sure as hell ain’t that unique. Get in line with the other millions in your age group and suck it up."
bitcoinpete: "The gleaming monuments of every society are built high upon the bones and broken dreams of millions and millions of nobodies who hoped for something better."
ozbot: The Epicurean Dealmaker: Everyone Can Be Super
bgupta: So is there any way to cryptographically take a blockchain and split it into seperate blockchains but transfer value between the blockchains on a 1/1 ratio, without having them just simply be seperate blockchains with market dynamics?
ThickAsThieves: i learned this the hard way with netflix
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ozbot: Apple slice: Share split makes joining the Dow more likely
bitcoinpete: http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/04/23/us-apple-dow-index-idINKBN0D91AJ20140423 <<AAPL 7:1 split, dividend bump, 50% bigger buyback... and i sold 'em all a year ago to the day
asciilifeform: (here in usa, the Colt Pension, Life & Health Insurance Co. is doing brisk business.)
ozbot: The Vienna Offensive, a hetalia - axis powers fanfic | FanFiction
asciilifeform: (other grandpa, field hospital, not sure he ever saw bidet until died)
asciilifeform: vs. finding a deactivated path through the rubble with wrist geiger...
asciilifeform: but at least i knew grandfather's fate.
asciilifeform: and of course deposited in the smaller one
benkay: if only the forum knew its own history.
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
benkay: 1970s. Fooled once, investors were not fooled again in that specific way, making the key risky asset characteristic of the latest recession a metric of safety going forward."
benkay: "For example, subsequent to the 1990 Commercial Real Estate debacle, defaults in this asset class were well below average across the board for the subsequent decade. In the aftermath of that crisis, newly issued Commercial Real Estate Asset Backed securities did very well, because everyone was especially cognizant of the risk factors involved. A similar thing happened in railroads after the Penn Central railroad defaulted in the early
mircea_popescu: i wish the falk joined hiar.
mircea_popescu: "AllAdvantage was a website that paid members to surf the Net. It paid to acquire these users, and supposedly leveraged its members eyeballs into advertizing dollars. At the initial fundraiser internet capitalist Frank Quattrone, who helped fund Cisco and many other legitimate successful concerns, and President Clinton both paid tribute to AllAdvantage"
kakobrekla: anyway it involved different kind of brain power than the 2048
asciilifeform: ^ statute to the unknown lamer
benkay: no but they have shitloads of cash
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
mircea_popescu: they... don't, mostly.
mircea_popescu: benkay a good theory which requires dupes to have a functioning ganglion.
benkay: Once the number of mimics is sufficiently high, their valueless enterprises become too conspicuous and they no longer pass off as legitimate investments.
mircea_popescu: "In an expansion investors are constantly looking for better places to invest their capital, while entrepreneurs are always overconfident, hoping to get capital to fund their restless ambition. Sometimes, the investors (dupes) think a certain set of key characteristics are sufficient statistics of a quality investment because historically they were. Mimic entrepreneurs seize upon these key characteristics that will all
mike_c: fuck, there goes my evening.
benkay: to further our discussion of economies: http://falkenblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/batesian-mimicry-explanation-of.html
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
mircea_popescu: because well.... they can't compete, because they solve a problem rather than grooming it with dysfunctional non-solutions, and so have nothing to kick back.
mircea_popescu: as a result, all the proper urinals are nao destroyed.
mircea_popescu: and got kickback-based contracts to "supply" the city.
mircea_popescu: dumbass firm started importing the 2mc bullshits, with chemical "processing"
mircea_popescu: romania had, in all cities, proper urinals built all over town. the whole shebang, with running water.
mircea_popescu: was that the abandoned urinal ?
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
asciilifeform: let them control carbon.
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
BingoBoingo: Amazing how in the US Steam plants are generally just a University thing and yet every on campus steam plant I've seen has been as boring as shit.
asciilifeform: hieronymous bosch apparently lives there.
BingoBoingo: "From 1985 to 1989 Williamson worked at Nicolet Instruments in Madison, Wisconsin where he was the primary author on two digital hearing aid patents."
asciilifeform: (or maybe not. but i was damn sure that was in there)
mircea_popescu: Humanity was almost extinguished, their spirits becoming part of the background radiation that blanketed the earth.
mike_c: hm, there has got to be an arbitrage loop on btc/usd/human souls
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
BingoBoingo: Imma have to guess the S.MPIF markets are BTC/USD, BTC/Typhoon submarines, BTC/Uranium, and BTC/Human Souls
mircea_popescu: 2.) fluffypony 1247 3.) assbot 1211 << africans and their long peens.
mircea_popescu: this is the highest linecount since forever
BingoBoingo: Much of the best food is wildlife
asciilifeform: glad the chicoms happily take bezollars. (for now.)
asciilifeform: i lost interest in the project >1yr ago, when i realized that i won't be selling so much as 1 btc while i live here.
asciilifeform: never bothered to make it airworthy, though, so it's a boring tale.
asciilifeform: shame that arbitrobots appear to be a dead field. the modus operandi of mine, for instance, was to root out and autorape other bots.
mircea_popescu: no, there's no real estate at all.
mircea_popescu: no robots. unlike the alex chick i'm an ACTUAL luddite. i use people.
BingoBoingo: I'm kind of curious what other markets S.MPIF is going to venture into
mircea_popescu: jurov can wait, the contract'll be up at a sane time, but in a few days.
gribble: You rated user mike_c on Tue Mar 25 20:15:55 2014, with a rating of 3, and supplied these additional notes: blogger, dev.
mircea_popescu: im known for my tough wagers and an almost fanatical devotion to the poke.
mike_c: i hate to turn down action, but feels like a tough wager. there are a lot of people i don't know.
asciilifeform: the power to make the impossible quite possible << Führerprinzip, the elixir of shit getting done.
mircea_popescu: right. what's "impossible" is just admitting mp has the power to make the impossible quite possible.
asciilifeform: this is possible in fiat just fine << various 'impossibles' are quite possible when they must.
asciilifeform: phun phact. cryptoag still exists! and used by diplomats, etc. how to explain? only theory i can think of is that folks deliberately buy into the crapola - as a gesture of doggy submission to usa
gribble: Crypto AG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_AG>; Schneier on Security: NSA Backdoors in Crypto AG Ciphering ...: <https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/01/nsa_backdoors_i.html>; Crypto AG: <http://www.crypto.ch/>
asciilifeform: the americans really fucked themselves. 'why bother being strong, let's make everyone weak.' they somehow kept most of the planet using rotor (!) crypto machines through the '70s!
mircea_popescu: so on the very good news front, i've already lined up 4 managers for s.mpif, whole shebang nominally worth a little north of 170 btc atm.
asciilifeform: more seriously, virtually nothing re: cryptology from the era preceding modern computing is worth terribly much.
ozbot: Loper OS » A Country of Which Nothing is Known but the Name.
asciilifeform: (robert sheckley's 'store of the worlds' - www.e-reading.ws/txt.php/1000018/Sheckley_-_The_Store_Of_The_Worlds.txt)
asciilifeform: 'Had it been a dream? It was still worth it! ... Now he had to think about his own survival. With the aid of his wrist geiger he found a deactivated lane through the rubble. Hed better get back to the shelter before dark, before the rats came out. If he didnt hurry hed miss the evening potato ration.'
bounce: doing a little survey among cryptographers of name with how and at what size they assess the NSA's knowledge advandage, if any, might be interesting. doing it every couple years maybe even moreso.
mircea_popescu: i believe that's really the model for all communication.
mircea_popescu: (trivial to observe when it noticed you're human because of the very distinctive "error pls to start over" tone"
mircea_popescu: so, as kids, one party game was to whistle into an old, low baud modem. they were slow enough that it was still sort-of feasible. the game was, who gets the modem going for longer thinking it's got a sane modem on the other end
mircea_popescu: anyway, re your "you're reaching" comment, i told a story at teh conference that should prolly be on the record.
mircea_popescu: that's the trick with "being insulted" : it affords plausible deniability to they who don't want to have the truth extracted.
bounce: c'mon, cook up a nice 20 questions to finnagle the truth out of oracle schneier
bounce: I think you're reaching with that line of reasoning. I know how I read it and I disagree with how you read it. I will allow that a-priori notions on either side (or both) might have something to do with the interpretation.
bounce: wouldn't surprise me if the NSA has everyone with a little crypto knowledge on watchlists just to see the privately-circulating papers
mircea_popescu: now without offense, let me just propose to you as a theory that it's possible you'd not know how you read it. in the same sense advertising works.
mircea_popescu: anyway. i know what he's pretending he's trying to say, but that ain't at all what he;s saying. what he's saying is "resistence is futile", that's the message, and it's a ridiculous.
mircea_popescu: because you imagine perfect knowledge ("everyone publishes everything they know and everyone reads it all") to get your result
mircea_popescu: <bounce> still, they know what we know plus a bunch << this is strictly false.
bounce: still, they know what we know plus a bunch we don't know much about. we don't know how big it is, we don't know what it does. for that reason you have to be careful with their "gifts". that's the point he's making.
Apocalyptic: a possible explanation may be that cryptography as a field wasn't that broad in academia back then
mircea_popescu: and we wiped their heartbleed.
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic it was perhaps accurate in the 90s.
Apocalyptic: i don't believe it's the case nowadays
Apocalyptic: "best guess (last I heard) was that they're about five years ahead of the open community with the research" that may have been accurate a few years ago
bounce: yeah, but we're not talking NSA as a whole. we're talking the stuff that comes out of there in the form of algorithms
mircea_popescu: heck, a lot of smart people worked for microsoft, and alcatel, and whatever other pointless dinosaur. adobe.
mircea_popescu: nobody is denying a lot of smart people work for the nsa.
mircea_popescu: if spending money solved problems the phoenician empire'd still be a thing.
bounce: you can see how that works in, say, DES, where the NSA suggested stuff that turned out to be resistant to a type of attack not known publically at the time DES was finalised
bounce: actually, no. they employ a fsckton of mathematicians and they know everything that's in the open plus an unspecified amount we don't know about. best guess (last I heard) was that they're about five years ahead of the open community with the research
mircea_popescu: yo, bruce, wakeup call : the nsa is about as fucktartded as you are. srsly.
bounce: though the real question is, is that a /signed/ tag?
mircea_popescu: gotta love how schneier sticks these psy-ops little turds in everything he writes.
mircea_popescu: "Additionally, algorithms from the NSA are considered a sort of alien technology: they come from a superior race with no explanations."
jurov: as soon as the current starts to change, parasite reactances appear
bounce: dissipating the power
bounce: fighting the current, technically
bounce: you more or less missed a chance to snag a few subs for essentially free down in the crimea
mircea_popescu: im looking for the world class submarines.
fluffypony: can we file that with the "world class mathematicians" involved in every cryptocurrency-related project?
ozbot: The Patrick Harnett saga continues pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: likewise...I just find myself way too unproductive for the first ~4 hours after waking up if I'm hanging like a little bitch
BingoBoingo: I wouldn't be where I am today without the ability to swiftly dispatch a hangover
BingoBoingo: fluffypony: The hangover's over
BingoBoingo: The hangover suggested it would be a good idea
ozbot: The wunderbar S.MPIF pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mike_c: well, most of them are socks. but yes, very amusing.
asciilifeform: lol that's the one with me making faces, isn't it
jurov: ;;google "the Bitcoin Manticore"
mircea_popescu: there's that on 15th
asciilifeform: manticore?! i must still be on the german submarine
fluffypony: my favourite line in it: "This ensures lowest value of the coin, the exchange price will be different, most likely higher"
asciilifeform: satan preserve me from the journo interns.
asciilifeform: once the word goes out << i'ma confused one here.
mircea_popescu: i think it uses the average
jurov: once the word goes out
jurov: bankay they're worth much more
Naphex: are the issue