asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: potentially interesting, but i suspect that it wont do much for the idjit heathens , who dun grasp even most basic step of hygiene , i.e. letting go of dnsism
asciilifeform: and it claims a specific process that supposedly produced the sboxes, but gives only pseudocode with a handwave ' if has desired properties, then keep sbox ' turd
asciilifeform: https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Papers/serpent.pdf ( pdfturd! ) << near as i can tell, is the 'full paper' referred to in the 'short'
BingoBoingo working on a piece covering republican research and doctrine on censorship resistance as of 2018 to throw on the blognotebook, to inform Pizarro marketing.
asciilifeform: 'oh posting intermediate calcs Would Be Wrong (tm), some scum could find out that we're fulla shit', or is there some other plausible hypothesis here..?
asciilifeform: motherfucking academitards.
asciilifeform: so then i go an' reread the paper, and whole thing is in this style. 'oh i picked the sboxes based on shuffling des's and rejecting the variants that keep bits in position toomuch' but where IS this scratch work posted?? apparently nowhere.. )
asciilifeform: ( anyone who considers 528byte an excessive key, can use e.g. keccak as expanded, instead of the 1970s strange , neh )
asciilifeform: for that matter, why not let user give the full 528bytes (132 x 32b) of key material, why this whitening is hardwired in.
asciilifeform: iirc diana_coman asked a similar q, but cant currently turn up the thrd
asciilifeform: i still dun grasp why the fuck the author used this adhocism, with 1way propagation, rather than an actual hash (and 'because all other blockciphers did' is not an answer.. )
asciilifeform: ( was about to ask 'so does it actually use the other 4 32b words..' then it clicked )
asciilifeform: observe, in the key scheduler,
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have a serious wtf re serpent, and neither the s.mg/classic ada, nor the orig paper, has helped me to make sense of it, and i'm suspecting that i'm thick... so here it is:
a111: Logged on 2018-04-10 03:06 mircea_popescu: eh. the quality of police work has so terribly degraded in the past half century, if anyone does ANY PLANNING AT ALL it's a murder that'll never get solved.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-28 17:37 asciilifeform: the checkpoint queues are ~100% theatrical, when they want some d00d 'by name', typically pick him up at the check-in desk, long before he gets to the queue
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-28#1866904 << cuz all the "picking up" left available is by name only ; http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-10#1795382 extends, extends.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i have difficulty picturing the derps actually ponying up the coin to cover the not-insignificant cost of housing their rezistenta prin cultura idjitmagnet. but whoknows.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, if Gab somes knocking, I will try to get a price for them. Considering they were hosted on MS Azure for a long time, it is hard to tell if they can fit at any price or if their all comers deal makes them dependent on cheap Fort Mead bandwidth
asciilifeform: reminiscent of banks in the '08 times
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Weev and Anglin are still scraping by as best as they can https://dailystormer.name/rabbi-at-tree-of-life-cut-a-jew-babys-penis-off-in-2013/
a111: Logged on 2017-12-22 17:18 weevlos: trinque: we are a media publication. our power and capital comes from the number of visitors we have to the site. we aim to transform through culture. if normal people cannot visit our site we are not accomplishing our goal
asciilifeform wishes the derps a smooth trip into the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-22#1756992 rubbish bin
asciilifeform: the checkpoint queues are ~100% theatrical, when they want some d00d 'by name', typically pick him up at the check-in desk, long before he gets to the queue
asciilifeform: or could go on, but there's too many of these and they aint particularly interesting to catalogue
asciilifeform: or, say, woman's purse, nobody ever searches, they poke inside with a ceremonial stick.
asciilifeform: there is, for instance, an Official cap on benjies, iirc 10k. but nobody ever counted'em in any usg airport i've been to, for so long as they fit in wallet
mircea_popescu: "wait, what do you mean we're just another spammer vying for your attention with all the others ?!?! but we don't tape papers to trees, we tape them to luggage insides!!! GOTTA COUNT FOR SOMETHING!"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they not simply 'say same thing', it's a form letter, not even rubber stamped but initial'd by some monkey
mircea_popescu: course, pointing out to them they all say the same thing... also throws wheels into gears or how did it went. as eminently evinced by http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institutions-a-guide/#selection-331.0-331.255 and such
mircea_popescu: well yes, but security theatre is specifically there to give some spam fliers the appearance of a loftiness they do not merit.
asciilifeform: e.g. the outer seals of the trunks with the 1u's, were popped, and the pieces helpfully taped to a 'this crate inspected for the motherland' receipt inside ( inner seals intact, lol )
asciilifeform: 1 factor is that usa is mega-travel hub, so extensive derping with erry suitcase is impractical ( queue is slow enuff from the bush-era 'bright idea' of inspecting shoes ). reportedly in e.g. israel they try to do the 'copy erry disk' thing, there it is at least roughly practical in re traffic volume
mircea_popescu: no, no, it's still for the plutonium-sarin.
asciilifeform: 'wtf, where is the plutonium in this suitcase, all derp has is buncha 1u's'
mircea_popescu: hey, let them grow tits come over.
asciilifeform: the concept of 'terror cell' that has 1-800 pnoje also, i suspect, throws the gears out of alignment. 'but where is the seekrit inner one, where they mix sarin', i expect, is the eternal itch.
mircea_popescu: women, right ? built themselves the femstate, magically don't understand why a) it dun work and b) nobody likes them still.
asciilifeform: from what i can tell, their entire concept of 'terror suspect' is a hardcoded enumeration of largely accidental/stylistic features, e.g. 'bearded camel fucker', 'weev', 'loud activist'
mircea_popescu: cuz the correlate of "french secret services accidentally sms terror suspect" is necessarily SOME KIND OF LIST. cuz that's how you build an empire, you make lists.
asciilifeform: ( tho theoretically even these get occasional sonderbehandlung 'pour encourager les autres' )
asciilifeform: ( i was speaking of the lul where they give you a subscription that opens the no-customs door on the way back ~into~ reich )
mircea_popescu: this is the other one. just about the only way to get on it is to be a potential "embarassment" in the sense of, "we X are following this guy, why are you Y letting him know".
mircea_popescu: (yes, there is a do-not-disturb list, also, where they put people mostly for the above stated reason (it "wouldn't be fair" to put the inca elite on it, CORRUPTION!!!). as evidenced in these very logs, the process is just as trivially hackable as any other piece of imperial software -- asciilifeform gets the benefit of being a kronprinz without having as much as met this AllMother (and while bemoaning the whole time the unfai
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform cuz they figure "you'll lead them to the terror cell" or some such nonsense.
asciilifeform: ( speaking here of proverbial, rather than the actual one, for some reason the actual border has ~0 interest in asciilifeform's cargo , to date, was almost disappointing. . 100x moar poking' and prodding' in orcistans this far, for asciilifeform )
asciilifeform: btw i'll add, nobody with half a brain would cross idjit ameri-border with device + card. 1 or the other at a time.
mircea_popescu: i suppose the ~usecase is where dorks think they have a right to look into your bags because you are crossing a "border".
mircea_popescu: this is so not the usercase...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: idea being that one could enter pw even with other folx ( in e.g. restaurant ) looking on.
asciilifeform: ( usg's locks work this way, one of their few sane techs, 1980s vintage. thing starts each new char at random init value, too, so peeker dun see anyffin useful from the side )
mircea_popescu: can it take normal kbd then ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i considered it, yrs ago, but imho it has serious minuses in the field
mircea_popescu: item could have a certain artful oldschool-cool air about it, if the key was dips.
asciilifeform: ( iirc the prescribed key-wipe mechanism was a brick of dynamite, and the crew decided it wanted to live a bit moar )
asciilifeform: ( you also wanna be able to unkey a box at a second's notice, and that aint happening with parallel key-as-switches, either )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if it's for cipher keys -- imho terrible idea to have ~all~ the key bits as physical switched in parallel, third party has no biznis being able to see the key simply by getting a peek at a keyed box with eyes
asciilifeform: ( the classic pdp-8, that is )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what sorta switches are you thinking of ? if it's ye olde DIPs, nobody cancelled'em, they're maybe a dime for a block of 8, and look today exactly as you remember then from yer 286
asciilifeform: sorta like the usual 'hey i found nessie' 'wouldja like to borrow my diving gear and thermal cam?' 'mmm nessie is invisible to thermal cam and what's a diving mask' '...'
asciilifeform: it went to where all cheap psyops lulz go when they die.
asciilifeform: observe that the gag vanished without a trace.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-27 18:32 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, don't you remember this thing ? some dood went off deep end, that there's a cvasi-magical virus in his usb stick. cca 2015 vintage logs
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-27#1866787 << for the record >> http://trilema.com/2013/badbios-aka-badlydonedamagecontrol/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: needs diddled bios + the crown jewels of intel/amd, to diddle microcode (intel's is rsa'd, amd's simply obscure/undoc'd) , and if yer diddling bios can make much simpler trap. but yes, would work
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not meritless, but not a weapon, toy store water gun, is the idea.
asciilifeform: theoretically the trigger for the ~actual~ boobytrap in x86 cpu would look very similar, yes
mircea_popescu: of course, microcode patches happen in the wild, so it's not entirely meritless.
asciilifeform: the given coad does nuffin on an off-the-shelf chip. it was an example meant to work with supplied microcode patch.
asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/oFd2X/?raw=true << full text of the pdfturd, for the l0gz.
asciilifeform: there's no 0day here.
asciilifeform: nah, it's part of a 'if you could patch microcode, here's how you might trigger the bomb' stage magic demo.
asciilifeform: 'As explained in Section 7.2, we use ASM.JS code in Firefox 50 to trigger the implemented x86 div Trojan. It is shown in Listing 9.'
asciilifeform: rather than a wild thing.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes i recall very well. this one is genuine, tho, but one half of a rigged academi-demo, requires ~their~ microcode patch
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, don't you remember this thing ? some dood went off deep end, that there's a cvasi-magical virus in his usb stick. cca 2015 vintage logs
asciilifeform: eh |\n it's a duck : apparent source is https://ecc2017.coreboot.org/uploads/talk/presentation/38/Microcode.pdf talk , and demands a pre-diddled, per the recipe, old amd k8/k10
asciilifeform: hang straight off the yardarm of dirigible, wainot
mircea_popescu: |\n suppose you start by introducing yourself and showing the minimum awareness of republican process of using sane fucking pastebins.
mircea_popescu: i'd rather hang the moron flattering himself with "enemy" that tried to lose me a disk than either of these.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i view block ciphertrons as a 'slightly better than nuffin' kind of tech -- would slightly rather lose a serpented disk to enemy than naked one; but that's about it
mircea_popescu: i don't even think there's anything wrong whatsoever with studying the damned thing. my reservations were strictly around investing any kind of "this is te republic's encryptodisk" flag on it\
mircea_popescu: i certainly see the point re "explore the space" ; and yes a serpent implemented as both eulora workhorse and verilog is better studied than just former.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 16:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in re these lulz, at one point asciilifeform dug for 'anybody ever verilog-ified serpent?' and found a stack of 'papers'. any src ? mno. but plenty of 'discussion' of supposed 'implementation', in the traditional nadia henninger style .
asciilifeform: ( the orig author, to be fair, did write it algebraically, but in imho somewhat cryptic form )
asciilifeform: i admit, the seekrit reason asciilifeform could even be arsed to pick the thing up, is that to write serpent in maximally algebraic form might tell us sumthing useful re the weakness.
asciilifeform: so from that point it becomes a q of the actual gate delays. in principle a serpentron that does coupla 100MB/s is physically possible. ( just not on my desk, lol )
asciilifeform: is the actual parallelism of the algo. the rotator would likewise win from having 32 physical instances, as obvious from http://ossasepia.com/2018/02/22/eucrypt-chapter-11-serpent/#selection-87.15048-87.17527
asciilifeform: if i were baking asic ( not sure why anybody would blow 'orbit' moneys on serpent asic, but for the sake of arg ) would unroll the sbox invocation the way it is unrolled in the pc serpent diana_coman is using, there'd be no reason not to have 128 or what, independent copies. but in the tight space of ice40 this is out of the question.
asciilifeform: i've gathered afaik all of the commercial demo boards with ice40, they all have 1 ea.
asciilifeform: ( and conceivably, worth sumthing even if it takes having ~two~ on the board; problem is that i dun presently have a board with 2 , to actually try )
asciilifeform: imho, if an ice40 can be coaxed into serpenting at , say, 1MB/s, it's worth sumthing, otherwise iffy
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as in, whether it actually sboxates at the stated 25MHz ? notyet, gotta write a serial i/o thing for it, to do this. possibly later today.
asciilifeform: 'yosys' ( 'icestorm'-'s synthesizer, suggests a max clock rate of ~25Mhz for the posted form. )
asciilifeform: in other minutiae, the terms i left in xor-containing form, can of course be expressed in not/and/or , but this resulted in seven-term ORs , which i assumed is a greater delay than to let it use a xor LUT; but this is not experimentally confirmed, and one might conceivably get better throughput if all of the terms were rewritten in the and/or/not form.
asciilifeform: btw, spoiler : i put the thing in an ice40-8k , simply did not have time to write up yet, and the fwd sbox in fact eats roughly 1/4 of the gates . which leaves the orig question wide open...
asciilifeform: it is also possible that the equations can be simplified further, i did a fairly surface job of it, mostly by hand
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: observe also that the sbox mechanism is 'bitsliced' (i.e. the bits move only 'vertically' there ) so potentially it can be shrunk at expense of speed . so the real puzzler isn't 'does serpent fit', it can almost certainly be shoehorned, but 'with how little/much unrollage' i.e. what resulting eating bitrate.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-13 07:14 hanbot: anyway the idea is to have an exhaustive list of news outlets with their contact email made, after which i'll have her mail that blurb; i expect something like a week's turnaround, and will report when it's done.
asciilifeform: approx, yes ( tho keep in mind that said chip, in order to do useful work, gotta have at least a bit of room for other things, unless one were to equip board with >1 ( not end of the world, they're, what, 8bux ) )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform basically, if it fits in 1/3 of the chip ?
deedbot: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2593 << Loper OS - Can the Serpent Cipher fit in the ICE40 FPGA?
deedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/07e-hermannstadt-ii.html << The Tar Pit - Hermannstadt, part two: the huge-ass photo shoot
a111: Logged on 2018-10-27 01:49 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866669 <<< this statement is too general. "which one has the largest first octet". that's it.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-27#1866701 - ok, I'll implement it this way then and we see
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo it was just a throway oneliner ic ame up with while walking off a steak, sadly no more there. << AH, I though maybe Tess Hollandaise died of excess mass and had been replaced as leader of the hamplanets by a younger, dumpier model
Mocky: mircea_popescu, do you have any interest in kuwait? if so I can keep this lead warm on the back burner while I work qatar
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it was just a throway oneliner ic ame up with while walking off a steak, sadly no more there.
BingoBoingo still waiting to hear the new fope's identity
mircea_popescu: didja hear the fatican elected a new fope ?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 21:09 diana_coman: basically "which one has a higher octet first if I walk them from left to right?"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866669 <<< this statement is too general. "which one has the largest first octet". that's it.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 21:02 diana_coman: asciilifeform, I guess mircea_popescu has a point: one can choose just *what* has to go through the MPI swamp and what not
asciilifeform: the very notion of heapism in a crypto lib, gives me hives
diana_coman: asciilifeform, myeah, I don't claim I fully know everything that goes on in there and I quite doubt anybody does; and ftr yes, I'm not at all comfortable with the fact that I had to and have to sign it but... I have to, pretty much
asciilifeform: it was a terrifing thing, i ran away from it. and buggy, also, per diana_coman's dig, and i'm not even convinced that we know the full extent of the buggism.
diana_coman: more of a hack to accommodate the stink of MPI - not sure it's something we want in there; if anything, I guess I can see more the point to just walking the octets in the array and basically doing the comparison in Ada
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866643 - to detail this: technically speaking one CAN test top bit until it's 0 for the oaep block (hence for *sure* < modulus) but I don't think it's great mainly because: 1. this fixes one more bit 2. it's really a way bigger hammer than needed - it can start with 1 and be smaller than modulus so potentially increases the number of repeat-oaep without any good reason 3. it's not even particularly clean,
diana_coman: asciilifeform, theoretically yes; practically since one calls stuff from mpi lib to create the MPIs, there are all sorts of things going on in there
asciilifeform: the conversions are O(bitness) tho, i dun expect they will be major dent in performance. simply ugly aesthetically.
diana_coman is still pondering the best way to treat that so it doesn't make a mess
diana_coman: and yes, the mpi-variable-buffer-returned gives me some headaches
diana_coman: that's the headache: oaep in ada, comparison in C, if not right, oaep in ada again, if right then rsa in C
asciilifeform: but yes, i forgot that the comparison happens after oaep
diana_coman: yes, c_wrappers that I wrote have a wrapper for precisely that mpi_compare thing among other stuff
diana_coman: basically "which one has a higher octet first if I walk them from left to right?"
diana_coman: but the comparison is iffy since either a. call c-wrapper and so do conversion from ada's oaep array of octets to C's MPI shit
diana_coman: the oaep padding is in ada
diana_coman: yes, this is for the OAEP part - current algo repeats the oaep padding until the result is < modulus of given key (since otherwise it can't rsa afterwards)
asciilifeform: yea but you wouldn't want the idjicy to leak upstream ( per e.g. last night's 'spackling' thread )
diana_coman: but it's true that doing the whole conversion to c and conversion back *just for the sake of an MPI comparison* might be uglier than just walking the arrays and seeing which one has a bit set first
asciilifeform: ( e.g. in the udp thing )
diana_coman: precisely why I preferred to make a wrapper for it so I don't import the whole stinking pile further up
diana_coman: and for the other it's the C style thing where it allocates memory the way it sees fit and the caller is supposed afterwards to clean up the mess when it likes
diana_coman: BUT: for one thing as previously noticed + tested they trim leading 0 so if you feed it an array with 0 you will NOT get it back the same
asciilifeform: recently was going over ancient notes from my torture room, and it was actually on my to-do, right before i shelved the thing
diana_coman: asciilifeform, it shits a shit: there is get_mpi_buffer and set_mpi_buffer that theoretically do that
asciilifeform: diana_coman: until you wrote the recent piece, i actually forgot that mpi ~didnt~ shit out ordinary octet arrays as-supplied
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I guess mircea_popescu has a point: one can choose just *what* has to go through the MPI swamp and what not
asciilifeform: the front end aint gonna change, so potentially could, as i understand
asciilifeform: diana_coman: out of curiosity -- given what mircea_popescu said the other day re necessary speed of rsa ops, could potentially use the current (11) ffa ?
diana_coman: but going that route ...can implement the mpi arithmetic too, right?
diana_coman: sure, one can implement the comparison in Ada
mircea_popescu: ehehe " but really, why sweep the pink flamingos under the rug". spyked's like all smooth an' shit.
mircea_popescu: i wish i knew how they did that, incidentally. undentable fucking enamel.
asciilifeform: in later years asciilifeform's folx got a 'rocket' , long streamlined sucker that looked kinda like naval torpedo. after 5yo asciilifeform visited naval museum, then eyed thing with suspicion..
asciilifeform: it did! with the brushed coating. there was a whole story re the d00d who came up with that, but i've sadly misplaced.
mircea_popescu: the buran had this wunderbar chiseled dome.
mircea_popescu: so where does the air go lmao
asciilifeform: there's a converter, but it smacks of ye olde c2fortran
asciilifeform: ( suxx when there is only 1 working example of a thing... )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866516 << this quickly led to dead end, incidentally -- the ice40 'icestorm' proggy dun seem to eat vhdl...
BingoBoingo: I am going to ponder this while I run some errands, inevitably seeing at least two air cooled volkswagens buffered by a vast gulf of nothing seperating them from the late model Chinese plasticars
asciilifeform: re those oaken tables, good as new 200+ yrs into their duty cycle.
asciilifeform: ( iirc there was an extended mircea_popescu piece re subj, but i cannot nao recall which )
a111: Logged on 2015-04-13 14:59 mircea_popescu: nubbins` for the record, traditional (european) cooking happened around this large flat table of very thick oak
asciilifeform: when sov engineers knew how to make a konsoomer item 'eternal' -- they did. ( e.g. famous 'buran' vacuum cleaner, still shows up now and again on lulzbay, when i finally move my arse to 220v country, i'ma buy it ) . when they didn't know, they made eternally maintainable .
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: funnily enuff, when i moved to usa, i briefly got hold of the 'genuine' lego, and was somewhat disappoint
BingoBoingo: Youngest brother got a set with a "Mountain" made of two molded half pieces with standard lego dots as the centerpiece.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the cloned brix were amazing, survived all kindsa mechanical abuse without so much as a scratch, much less brea
mircea_popescu: i had two trucks which together built a nice house.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The clone over here were better as well, completely interchangeable, except... They didn't click together as well.
asciilifeform: ( in variant colours, but otherwise identical to the limits of naked eye comparison )
mircea_popescu: cuz "why should kids build toys they didn't pay for" amirite ? apple ftw ?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: fwiw the sov clone i had , had 100% interchangeable bricks.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Even back then there were ~5% to 10% non standard parts meaning if one when missing doomed to shanty town construction.
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 20:04 phf: i'd say it's more like 80s lego and modern lego (if you haven't seen, now it's all >50% custom per-toy parts, that can be snapped to a traditional lego coupling, but otherwise non-universal)
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: keep in mind that the lego you had as a boy, hasn't existed in decade+ , afaik, per http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-02#1710146
BingoBoingo: It's the "lego" disease. Train kids to build shoddily and keep reusing the parts in a cycle of shanty town
mircea_popescu: they who build out of compulsion kinda end up like this. no ocd washer ever suffered from "this is clean"
mircea_popescu: wasps only build soundly because genetics ; individually they'd much prefer to build shoddily -- moar building to do!
mircea_popescu: no, all the better. leaves space for more building.
asciilifeform: then, 'surprise', falls into pieces, crushes
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: even the fundamental shit-into-toilet-not-pants of 'run gedankenexperiment before actually building' seems to be going away in heathendom
mircea_popescu: it's lulzy, btw, in all times of plague there emerges this obscure cult of "plague is good for you, get moar rats in your bed" etc.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> with all the "coc" bs, i suspect ~0 white men remaining who even know how to run a technical discussion, or ot what end it is done. << Just gotta make the definition of "white men" more inclusive like the FBI is doing
mircea_popescu: safe enough bet, seeing how it's 99% same as writing code, and they can't do that to save their lives either.
mircea_popescu: with all the "coc" bs, i suspect ~0 white men remaining who even know how to run a technical discussion, or ot what end it is done.
mircea_popescu: but the great gain of this morning is that at least all of this now -- on very readable record.
asciilifeform not a great luvvver of symmetricipherism in general, as amply illustrated in the l0gz, for this and other reasons -- there is no known approach to bake symmetricism from any sort of rational angle
mircea_popescu: various other such moronicities scattered about.
mircea_popescu: myeah. now, if i could have a cipher that has 512 byte payload, the above "single block" thing'd be satisfied. see ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: classical serpent eats 256bit key. but ( as illustrated in http://ossasepia.com/2018/02/22/eucrypt-chapter-11-serpent/ ) eats/shits 16 byte payload blox as it goes; a 4096 byte flash sector would need 8 of these, plus i suspect a 9th for the block # ( see earlier re 'known plaintext'ism etc )
mircea_popescu: if she can find them.
hanbot: alright, i'll have nicoleci send off the first batch asap.
hanbot: something like incrementally sticking date bands into the query and moving ever backward
a111: Logged on 2018-10-13 07:14 hanbot: anyway the idea is to have an exhaustive list of news outlets with their contact email made, after which i'll have her mail that blurb; i expect something like a week's turnaround, and will report when it's done.
hanbot: in other still-using-google fun, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861765 << news search for bitcoin nominally yields 103M results, of which shitoogle will actually produce 290, which in turn yields ~30 non-duplicates. delayed another week i expect for spelunking.
asciilifeform: the 1 other tricky detail is that you gotta include block ~number~ ( or hash thereof, or some variant ) ~inside~ the plaintext for each block, or you get the penguin
asciilifeform: but if you actually touch the disk, it erases a 4096byte chunk
mircea_popescu: i thought sds came into native blocksizes and yeah sure the driver atop will let you believe w/e.
asciilifeform: theoretically usb storage allows arbitrary block size .
asciilifeform: if, incidentally, somebody runs across the quasi-mythical src of the old attempts, potentially could decruft/fit-in-head . so plox to write in if find.
mircea_popescu: the one thing i really don't like is that wtf block devices of two block sizes.
asciilifeform: and the q of 'would serpent fit in ice40' is imho also worth answering. i'ma put it in the pipe.
asciilifeform: vhdl is prolly worth a 2nd look, tho i currently suspect that it vs verilog aint a 'ada vs c' win, simply longer text that does same thing ( the only unit of data in fpgaism is really the bit, so 'types' dun exist )
asciilifeform: they're still going down in cost, also.
asciilifeform: one potentially interesting variation on the theme is if a key block contained an offset-length into the drive. so pluggin in diff keys could give you diff 'disks', which are normally indistinguishable from noise.
mircea_popescu: note that eg the eulora spec (low value item anyway) has MANY keys.
asciilifeform: the remaining open q re iron is 'how to throw in key', is separate q
asciilifeform: theoretically anyffing that eats normal block devices nao, yes
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in re the disk thing ? depends entirely on the serpentron. so open q.
BingoBoingo: In other propaganda: https://archive.is/P7sge What kind of ethnic background does the apellido "Sayoc" suggest?
asciilifeform: there actually exists an ada-flavoured variant, 'vdhl', but i never saw any win from it, loox rather like simply a moar verbose verilog. but! to be fair, that was 10y ago when i last dug, it was prior to asciilifeform's getting into adaism.
mircea_popescu: no dood i understand the differences.
asciilifeform: it compiles into a gate netlist, rather than sequence of instructions for vonneumann cpu.
asciilifeform: all the lines 'execute at once'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they're sorta fundamentally immiscible, verilog is not a procedural/algorithmic lang
a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 16:08 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in re these lulz, at one point asciilifeform dug for 'anybody ever verilog-ified serpent?' and found a stack of 'papers'. any src ? mno. but plenty of 'discussion' of supposed 'implementation', in the traditional nadia henninger style .
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nope, as in fact noted in the head of thread, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866343
mircea_popescu: aaaanyways, this out of the way : do you actually have all the parts for this serpentdisk ?
mircea_popescu: there is that.
asciilifeform: and will point out, errybody who transmitted rsa-over-serpent in the 20yrs prior to $breakthrough is just as hosed as the folx who were using pocket iron serpentrons
mircea_popescu: but the other point is, yes, "erryone gotta bet". but also, "erryone has finite chips to bet with".
asciilifeform: errybody gotta take bets, sure. but must point out that there is no stiffness proof for rsa any moar than for voodoo-symmetrics.
asciilifeform: by same lights bright-kid can walk in with pill for rsa. then wat.
mircea_popescu: it comes for free with "here's generic method to attack all of them"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: then errybody who likes it, pulls their roms and writes in ~that~ , neh.
asciilifeform: (unlike the xl9572 , incidentally, which has baked-in eeprom )
mircea_popescu: "hey guise ? i have a mathematical definition of blockchipher, and guess what comes for free with it."
asciilifeform: incidentally , baking such box doesn't marry to serpent, can replace the ice40's feed rom whenever, with whatever one likes
mircea_popescu: works altogether*
mircea_popescu: in short, because this winding discussion risks overwhelming buffers, the salient points are a) that i'm not ready to go to war over serpent, it's a meh-maybe item ; b) that building our spearheads around items we're not willing to die for may be how the converse of http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=bitcoin+corrupts altogether.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the problem with computers is that they all tend to be living organisms.
mircea_popescu: it seriously never fucking was meant to be gone over with a microscope, "oh satoshi how could you". fuck you i should wear a caliper attached to my pants in case i doodle in the restaurant also ?
asciilifeform: whereas it is not difficult to copy a block disk to a new one and burn the old
mircea_popescu: except, of course, if the underwear-on-head&over-pants crowd buys it.
asciilifeform: it aint end of the world if we bake sumthing and then retire it in favour of moar-correct replacement ( a la orig v )
mircea_popescu: say inca utters fatwah against block chiphers (ALSO DOESNT MATTER), now we'll go to war for the holy cause of niggers^H^Hblockchiphers ?
mircea_popescu: the poor people touching that shit (ie, that make it, or sell it, or w/e) are suddenly stuck bearing more weight than their rated limits.
mircea_popescu: so yes, i fully expect they'll buy, and then admire the hole we've dug ourselves in : five years down the road, say, as a mental experiment, we've sold 100k of these units, they're 90% of all we've sold, and well... they're still blockshiters. and what's next ? say i utter a fatah against block "ciphering", for good technical reasons or just because i'm insane -- IT DOESNT MATTER, and lo there'll be a lordship schism because