gribble: The operation succeeded.
decimation: it's probably okay for many purposes but the thing reeks of being a hack
decimation: yeah, and when you start looking at how the sausage is made it starts to make you feel queezy
decimation: it's hard to find good documentation re: how the hell the linux /dev/random pool works exactly
decimation: quite so. I think the yearning to "see" the data being generated (like from the chumpatron) is the right idea
asciilifeform: seems reasonable re: a lottery, yes? but then you get people who for some mysterious reason disagree when it comes to crypto.
asciilifeform: in theory.
decimation: seems perfectly reasonable, except are the internal parts open to examination by the kulaks who buy tickets?
decimation: it would be interesting in the soviet version if a coin flip determined whether you got 1 trillion rubbles or a lifetime sentence to the gulag for bourgeois greed
decimation: the chumpatron would be more efficient
asciilifeform: they've used this kind of 'rng' for decades.
decimation: is that the russian powerball?
asciilifeform: ^ notice he says 'лототрон' ~= 'lottotron.' the original, in fact, 'лохотрон' - chumpatron.
benkay: hee hee hee i got the rng flamewards going again
mircea_popescu: mthreat no. this because the high bytes are too predictable (shake) and the low bytes too predictable (cheap accelerometer fingerprint)
Rassah: mthreat: Not as much. Since the motions will be repettitive, you will get only a small amount of variance from that. We had considered something similar, with maybe having to press a button a bunch of times and use the timing diference, but it adds an insignificant amount compared to what we get from the chip already
mircea_popescu: decimation he prolly means just for the entropy.
mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> i think that a car is too expensive, i would rather purchase a sandwich <
benkay: mostly on the topic of getting entropy out of sram imho
Rassah: benkay: a lot of tings said on the topic of that Entropy device have been very retarded
Rassah: It's not even that. The two are just arbitrary measures. It's more like, I think driving at 105kmh is too fast. I'll just drive at 65mph instead
nubbins`: i think that a car is too expensive, i would rather purchase a sandwich
cazalla: "People think that Bitcoin is too expensive, and they would rather purchase Litecoins. " https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=21124.0
Rassah: benkay: I didn't say that is what is being suggested here. That is, in fact, what is being suggested in places all over outside of here. No one has suggested anything here, other than that the method I am involved wit is worse than...
Rassah: benkay: this is what one calls a "strawman" argument. // actually this is what is being suggested that people do to create secure paper wallets. I am suggesting that ours is comparable. At the least because people who use that method don't check the RNGs of the systems they use, and at the most because we don't actually use an RNG chip, and use our own source of randomness.
asciilifeform: it was the rng << snore. big fat surprise.
gribble: truffles was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 13 weeks, 4 days, 6 hours, and 29 seconds ago: <truffles> tell me when the experiment is over
cazalla: mircea_popescu, so i had this dream about you, in a lobby, it was eyes wide shut-esque except you wouldn't let me come upstairs where the women were but then you sent 2 down to me at the bar so i was content
BingoBoingo: http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20140715120259 << "The question now was how to integrate it. OpenBSD developers don't like huge diffs for a very good reason. After fixing the inode format and adding new flags, Ted pointed out the ancient rule "whoever touched it last now becomes the maintainer" was valid even here."
BingoBoingo: The problem of taking action to fix a problem is that at some point you will have to take more action.
mircea_popescu: theo's response is pretty weak too.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: In the comments you can see the new psyops angle, "The cruft was good! Mysterymeat Nourishes!"
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, it was born knowing it would be the RNG. The problem is do the devs make shims or does Linuxen fix itself
mircea_popescu: http://arstechnica.com/security/2014/07/only-a-few-days-old-openssl-fork-libressl-is-declared-unsafe-for-linux/ << look at that, it was the rng.
BingoBoingo: You'd think when somone creates the sort of tool he googled and instead recieved a virus for the tool's creator would instead bleed the target dry.
BingoBoingo: The site hosting the malware in question if you make to the end of the thread atm was revealed to be a "cheat" for some coinflip gambling game.
nubbins`: was just about to ask if they carry Hi and Lois
mircea_popescu: not to mention they're in fucking spanish.
mircea_popescu: i keep buying the funny papers and reading this chan. then i lol here and i am all disappointed in the funny papers.
mircea_popescu: maybe i should kidnap some of these kids and torture them in my basement, to fix the economy ?
mircea_popescu: so whenever reddit gets inflamed about the injustice of mp, bitbet gets carpetbombed with bets.
dub: <3 the clit
mike_c: interesting. i've never tried the split and flat ones
mike_c: i like the split and raised ones
kakobrekla: which ones did you get? theres like 10 kinds.
copumpkin: ah, then yes
copumpkin: well, from what I've seen (i just started tinkering with hopper a couple of days ago, so I dunno), the basic hopper disassembler interface/functionality isn't all that different from IDA's
kakobrekla: interestingly, the ergonomic model m goes for about a grand on ebay when it pops up from time to time
asciilifeform: but there isn't an actual substitute.
mike_c: they use mechanical switches. not sure what mx means
asciilifeform: copumpkin: don't misunderstand - if there were an actual substitute, and it only ran under, whatever, ultrix, that'd count
copumpkin: asciilifeform: yeah, the decompiler output seems kinda flaky and silly. The Mac OS thing doesn't seem like a big deal that makes it a "monopoly"
asciilifeform: mike_c: the recent 'model m' clones are based on lexmark's version. somewhat shoddier mechanically than original.
kakobrekla: they use mx switches ?
mike_c: kakobrekla: i have heard that the das mechanical keyboards are the modern version of the m, and they have a silent version. i tried one for a few minutes once and liked it. but not ergonomic.
Mats_cd03: add it to the bucket list
asciilifeform: Mats_cd03: the issue isn't whether one likes it, but whether any practical substitute (other than 'objdump' and 10-100x the time/sweat) exists.
asciilifeform: Mats_cd03: 'ida hexray' is the only one i've ever seen that was actually usable for anything practical.
kakobrekla: prolly same as the mod :)
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: they're still dirt cheap on 'ebay', etc. if you're willing to clean an ancient one.
kakobrekla: these boards arent exactly cheap anymore.
kakobrekla: well if you count that, depends on the neighbor count
kakobrekla: the way to do is - insert the very thick dental floss (oral b super floss) inside the springs, between 50 and 100% of the height
BigBitz: the HexEffect link.
kakobrekla: btw mike there is a mod where you can make the model m office safe in terms of noise and the feedback is only slightly affected
mike_c: keyboards should be able to take a good beating. otherwise they are by (my) definition not fit for professionals.
Mats_cd03: 'in the most amateur sense of 'fucking it up''
Mats_cd03: you can do things like look for the VM license. lol.
Mats_cd03: and the use-case for that sort of thing is limited anyway
asciilifeform: many people write, e.g. a 'mips' (or other small instruction set) emulator and cross-compile for it. when you get hold of one of these, you can just extract the turd and disassemble using toolset for that cpu.
Mats_cd03: sorry... i meant to say it is deterministically broken. the subterfuge is non-deterministic
gribble: Cosmos was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 weeks, 3 days, 5 hours, 31 minutes, and 52 seconds ago: <Cosmos> I brought entertainment & then I faded down to a speck of nothing
dub: the real question, is it bongwater in Mats_cd03's laptop
Mats_cd03: (the usb stick team, anyway)
Mats_cd03: oh man that conversation about the usb stick is hilarious
assbot: Sander Van Doorn & Firebeatz - Guitar Track (Sam Feldt Remix) [FREE DOWNLOAD] by Sam Feldt on SoundCloud - Hear the worlds sounds
Mats_cd03: skype enables tracking by entities other than nsa
Mats_cd03: no but seriously read the paper
benkay: don't hate the player
mike_c: didn't you lose the one because you were stoned?
BingoBoingo: Printers are the worst.
benkay: <Rassah> who won't be bothered to create a Tails linux distro on a USB, generate addresses on them using Bitaddress or something, printing to a USB connected priner, and wiping the printer // this is what one calls a "strawman" argument. as a person nominally involved in "public relations" you should never commit such derpitude in public.
BingoBoingo: Maybe there needs to be a backup instance of assbot named buttsett
benkay: <asciilifeform> Rassah: I think << you are not the designer of this item ? // hee hee hee hee i'll just pop this corn
benkay: <Rassah> so tech knowledge enough to be able to check how the software works, and maybe hardware knowledge to know what chips are being used in the schematic // well if its chips and an rng, asciilifeform's likely to tell you that unless you can inspect the chips (which you can't), you can't make claims about the RNG.
FabianB: Rassah: so it's mainly for the masses who want to store 0.01 btc on a paperwallet
BingoBoingo: Nah, we'll just let people hash their privates...
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo what, you kidding ? just pour the caulk in a shape. cheapest shit ever.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: That's a shortcut for the consumer. It's the opposite of a shortcut to produce. Doing the minimum is the right way to produce. Never mind we won't polish the burrs off the edges either.
Rassah: I seriously hate this keyboard btw... It's a very old microsoft touch-type wireless ergonomic, and it misses the keys around the G and H constantly. But I'm too cheap of a bastard to get a better one. So, please ignore my typos, and don't let them reflect on my grammar skills (I took Latin, damnit!)
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: No, I'm just cutting the pipe and selling it. A dick fits, what is this thing where a dick needs to do more than fit in something to fuck it. I'm just taking a shortcut.
Rassah: This ting is made for people who are not techy (most of not bitcoiners) who won't be bothered to create a Tails linux distro on a USB, generate addresses on them using Bitaddress or something, printing to a USB connected priner, and wiping the printer. I think this device, where you plug t into your printer and hit print, will make bitcoin a hell of a lot easier to secure for the masses. And it costs a fracton of what the other
BingoBoingo: If fucking is just about sticking your dick in a hole that accomodates it, I'm just going to get some pipe from the hardware store, saw it into dick length pieces, and sell them pocket pussies. What could go wrong???
asciilifeform: Rassah: i have a perfectly adequate source of physical entropy. actually a small crate of them at this point.
Rassah: Or do you think that Bitcoin is not secure, because the bitcoin address is hashed from the private key?
Rassah: asciilifeform: I use "hash" interchangeably with "compute with one of the inputs for the formula being your source of entropy, and the output being your private key
mircea_popescu: dub is the page empty or just too jscripty for me ?
Rassah: asciilifeform: I take it you're one of those who thinks the only way to create a paper wallet is to buy a used $100 laptop, use diceware with at least 20 words, use the laptop to hash that into your private key and address, write it down by hand on paper using a hard glass surface, and then burn the laptop?
asciilifeform: actually i must admit that i am looking forward to these machines being produced, shipping, selling widely. because apparently there is only one way to educate people - let them piss on electric fence in person.
Rassah: And yes, if the software and hardware is completely open source and public, why wouldn't someone want to sell cheaper knockoffs? We hope we can still sell outs at a premium, due to our reputaton and such, but...
Rassah: asciilifeform: Have you seen the chinese bitcoin mining market?
mircea_popescu: at least the fact that it's been worked on since sept makes me feel a lot better.
Rassah: asciilifeform: You will be informed when our sources are released and you are invited to give his opiniion then <<-- Apparently my official statement
asciilifeform: there is some typical 'confusion between the warm and the soft' here. the only bits that matter are entirely independent (in the statistical sense) ones.
Rassah: Different guy who does the software commenting about the software side of it? I have no idea
Rassah: From another ech working on this: bruteforcing Ends at > 50 bits for most algos. some primitive ones can be done up to 70 bits
Rassah: Me: You're basically saying that, even if they stole the device and examined it, or stole one that was made right after it with similar chip characteristics, they'd still have 8000 bits of entropy to dea with, making their brutefocing impossible?
asciilifeform: Rassah: 'they are aware of most of these concerns' << and still did nothing. this, you realize, is an accusation of willful scammitude. not mere ignorance.
Rassah: asciilifeform: Work on this device was started in early September. So we have had a lot of tests on the chips by people who have been working on bitcoin cryptography for years now. So it seems as if they are aware of most of these concerns...
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla lmao good one. but no, it was "thanks god i put some piss in there too, so it's not all shit"
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu leave the bits you dont like? :)
Rassah: asciilifeform: Nikita: Well, yeah, you can narrow the range down to about 8000 bits.
mircea_popescu: Rassah do you know what the cook said when the people in the restaurant didn't like his shit soup ?
mircea_popescu: same batch, yea, obv. with a little luck they are exactly identical.
mircea_popescu: all it takes is to find which, and/or count them
asciilifeform: Rassah: if you read the paper, you will see that a small minority of sram cells is responsible for most of the 'random' behaviour.
Rassah: I am not tech, no. I wasn't aware that these things actually retained any bits when you yank them out
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: betcha the tech won't read any of this.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i was hoping he'd figure it out, without you or i drawing the picture.
mircea_popescu: takes the stick, puts it in the freezer, melts it slowly, identifies the flip bits, counts them
Rassah: I plug it into my printer, and make a paper walet. I put it away, and send money to the paper wallet. Then you......
Rassah: asciilifeform: So, if I use an entropy device to generate paper walets, you can bruteforce it by recording the temperature in my room???
mircea_popescu: he could also say "i don't want my signature to be dependent on the code written last year by a bunch of dudebros"
Rassah: BingoBoingo: You could just say "Bitcoin address doesn't support encryption, or storing identity inside the key"
asciilifeform: Rassah: your friend has cemented my conclusion. i can figure out which cells are responsible for the device's output, merely by knowing your room temperature over time. and then all we have to do is run brute force over the narrowed set. (a few bits)
BingoBoingo: Rassah: And the last tolerable version of Multibit does something else as well. When PGP/GPG has the ascii armored text block already it just isn't worth trying to replace it with bitcoin signing just to save a few bytes.
Rassah: We can say that the skews are randomly distributed among cells during manufacture, and then remain fixed; temperature shifts all skews.
Rassah: put it in the freezer in the kitchen and collected data while it was cooling down. There was still plenty at 0ºC, but it smoothly went down to zero entropy around -20º. The cells with high skew are those which effectively constitute device signature.
Rassah: asciilifeform: From Nikita again: Most cells have too much skew to be useful. We suck entropy out of those whose skew is low. That's why there is ~21:1 cell-to-entropy ratio at room temperature on most devices. They had one device from Microchip IIRC, whose entropy was much lower, but the others were very close to the 20–21 ballpark. We analysed data from MRD SoC, which is in the bitcoincard, and got the same 21:1 ratio. Then I
asciilifeform: Rassah: the skew we're talking about isn't rng output skew - the kind that can be addressed with von neuman's algo, etc. it's the actual physical effect you're using.
asciilifeform: Rassah: 'Skew shift is monotonic with respect to temperature. If an increase in temperature makes a neutral cell become 1-skewed, then decreasing the temperature will make that same cell 0-skewed.' << fixed bad paste
mircea_popescu: o look at that, they DO listen.
asciilifeform: Rassah: ergo: if i have a sufficiently precise graph of the temperature of your unit over time, i can infer something about the sram and which cells are responsible for the bulk of the input to rng.
asciilifeform: Rassah: K, of all cells that are neutral at 293 K. Note that the probability exceeds 0.04 at the highest points; these peaks are omitted to show the rest of the distribution with greater detail. See Section VI-B1 for discussion typically
asciilifeform: Rassah: 'Skew shift is monotonic with respect to temperature. If an increase in temperature makes a neutral cell become 1-skewed, then decreasing the temperature will Fig. 11: This contour shows the probability distribution at 273 K and 323
BingoBoingo: Rassah: ... Otherwise I don't know what the difference in implementation is between PGP and BTC signing << Other big difference is PGP signing has a nice container for inline signatures attached to signed human readable text of arbitrary length
asciilifeform: Rassah: but all of this pales in comparison to another little observation. recall pg. 10 of the paper.
Rassah: and won't that make an excelent opportunity for someone to sell a device just like ours, using their own trusted sram chips? Maybe for more money, but more secure?
Rassah: won't that cost them way more?
Rassah: Will Atmel know what your seed and other entropy sources are? If not, why does it matter?
asciilifeform: Rassah: it would have to be an electron micrograph. taken by somebody other than atmel.
asciilifeform: Rassah: note that you would need to know the actual physical layout of atmel's die, to draw this picture. do you?
asciilifeform: Rassah: not very interesting, i'm afraid. let's see the actual grid values - unprocessed.
BingoBoingo: Rassah: Anyone ever wonder how the hell Brock, whom no one knew much about, got elected to the BF board, when the public either does't know him or hates his guts? To me that says connections of some sort... << 90's nostalgia
Rassah: Hah, Nikita just ran the output from our device as an actual example http://pastebin.com/yz2GnsKd
asciilifeform: Rassah: we read the paper. (or at least, i did)
Rassah: asciilifeform: It's a bit white (with 0's), but it's considerably more populated than that. This is the paper that we used to base this one, and it has some examples of the results http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.164.6432&rep=rep1&type=pdf
Rassah: asciilifeform: We read the ram data directly
asciilifeform: Rassah: by what means do you 'collect the entropy' ?
asciilifeform: Rassah: this is approximately the kind of pattern you end up with using sram on powerup
Rassah: asciilifeform: Nikita says we use standard cryptographic hashes. Just for salt, for private and public keys, and other bitcoin specific things
mircea_popescu: whitening is the process of turning the banal 11111 string into b0baee9d279d34fa1dfd71aadb908c3f
Rassah: but since the sample amount is very large even a 10% value is technically enough
Rassah: state and we'd read 0 and refuse to generate a key. We will check if the amount of 0 > x% and < y% (to check for deep-freeze temperatures) the Closer they are to 50% the better
Rassah: asciilifeform: from Nikita: Firstly, we'll publish our analysis of data from chips and argue that it should apply to all chips, and whoever wants can get data from his chip and run our tools or make his own. (our device will be fully open source, so anyone can make one if they wish). Secondly, we zero out a word in memory and make sure it's got enough 1s next time. If there was not enough power-off time, sram would retain its
mircea_popescu: Rassah well then i guess they don't get to talk about it at all, to no-one's particular detriment.
BingoBoingo: Right, but this arrangement of gears and fluids to drive power to wheels is still a transmission. Even if oddly arranged. Nearly any front wheel drive, front engine car uses the term transaxle for this.
Rassah: mircea_popescu: Not realy. The reason I was hired is because they don't have time or patience for that
Rassah: Basicaly, normally to get more power, a car (or other hybrids) switch to a lower gear ratio and spin the electric and/or gas harder. In a prius, the gas engine spins faster than the smaler inner engine can keep up, whic cases it to spin backwards, generate electricity, and then that electric is pumped into the big electric engine
Rassah: BingoBoingo: It's three motors in a constantly moving planetary gear setup. The "transmitting" is done by varying input, generation, and torque of he electric motors
kakobrekla: Pirus story rehashed with the new gizmo
BingoBoingo: Rassah: What I didn't know before is that Priuses have no transmissions, timing belts, or belts f any kind, and reqire practicaly no mainenance other than 10k mile oil changes and 100k brake pad and transaxle fluid changes. Everything else is electric... After $600+ expenses every 3 to 5 years on my Honda Civic, this is awesome. The 60mpg helps too << Transaxel is just a sideways transmission
Rassah: The Davi Barket convention standin
asciilifeform: Rassah: consider that you are now married to the physical characteristics of a particular model from particular vendor. e.g. next year atmel ships sram that's non-entropic down to -40. without bothering to tell you. or it is 'entropic', but actually picks up Voice of America.
Rassah: THERE'S someone I finally know!
Rassah: I understand. I'm glad you are asking these questions
asciilifeform: Rassah: my purpose isn't pedantry. try to apprehend: i buy your product, get a keychain-sized gizmo with a single chip. how do i verify that the package functions exactly as described?
asciilifeform: Rassah: then it doesn't matter what you did to plug in the random bits - they are smeared across the 'ciphertext' (if you will, the hash output) and can be inferred.
Rassah: Due to bits not always flipping because of temperature and outside environment, we will be testing for these issues already.
asciilifeform: Rassah: 'we are physically reading it' << how do you know this? that is to say, if both the reader and the sram are on one ic die, how can you substitute, e.g. a fake sram that never flips bits, to test ?
Rassah: It may reduce entropy, but it inreases he number of attack vectors, doesn't it? Attacker would need both the hardware based RNG and the salt to compromise it
Rassah: Oh, one other answer (one of the techs is awake): We know we're getting sram because we are physically reading it.
Rassah: Initially the idea was: Write a salt onto the stick. Then generate key = H(H(entropy_1) + salt) + H(H(entropy_2) + salt), and print all of [key, salt, H(e1), H(H(e1) + salt), H(e2), H(H(e2) + salt)]. (+ could be arithmetic addition or XOR; either should be fine.) The user can then verify exactly one of the outer hashes on an insecure computer, and can verify the additions by hand (literally, pen and paper, no computer)
Rassah: key = H(salt||H(entropy)) with H(entropy) on a second sheet of paper so the user can verify it... or something
Rassah: Yes. If you plug tis device into your PC while holding down the button, it shows up in "flash mode", where instead of just a USB stick with a JPG on it, you get to see all the system and settings files. One of those files is a user provded sald (like diceware) that will be combined with the rest of the entropy sources to produce the final key
Rassah: I mean the chip and the hardware has a lot of stuff in there. The entropy is altready there, but initially we figured the SRAM chip was overkill. The "software adding entropy" meaning we just add more code to grab entropy from more hardware and user sources
Rassah: mircea_popescu: No, the hardware design is finished. Changes are only in software. Initial method of creating keys is done, we are just adding software patches to add more and more entropy sources to this thing.
mircea_popescu: this is a poor fit for the application.
asciilifeform: Rassah: ever encounter the concept of 'auditability' ?
mircea_popescu: Rassah as in i get the impression things may change or w/e. anyway.
Rassah: Is Atmel really that untrustworthy? Is there a better option?
Rassah: So, we won't be relying on Atmel's RNG, and will be reading their SRAM directly
Rassah: Ah, got a eply. Seems we'll be using he Atmel provided SRAM after all. And "We will be doing our own analysis of data from several chips, and provide a raw entropy file for those who want to do their own for their specific device." combined with "option to enter a user-supllied salt"
mircea_popescu: so it's using an atmel micro but not for the trng ?
asciilifeform: rc oscillators << you meant - 'thermometers'
Rassah: asciilifeform: this device was designed and assembled by the people workin on the bitcoincard. They all know hardware extremely wel
Rassah: Sorry for the line spam
Rassah: We can also add secondary sources to the mix:
Rassah: compare it on the next run. Since we have about 30 times more entropy
Rassah: We can store part of the raw entropy into non-volatile memory and
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: somebody had to crap out the physical unit.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i personally doubt anyone with hardware understanding touched the design, but then again how would i know.
asciilifeform: Rassah, mircea_popescu: then one last question, for if/when he does. value of adjacent sram cells is correlated. what, if anything, was done about this? (my guess - nothing but the usual 'whitening'.)
Rassah: In our tests, it still had plenty of entropy at 0ºC, but it smoothly went down to zero entropy around -20º. Maybe we should put warning stickers on these things saying "Caution - Chaotic System. Do not use in low entropy environments above the Arctic or below the Antarctic circle, unless exposed to external sources of energy" :)
mircea_popescu: people have tried this "i'm the pr, i'll pass q's along" thing before, it never works well, not necessarily through anyone's specific fault,
mircea_popescu: Rassah probably the better avenue would be for the graybeard in charge to show up here
asciilifeform: Rassah: other question. in my own experiments, i found that sram powerup 'static' depends heavily on the die's temperature.
Rassah: I asked and can relay the Atmel/sram question. I think they are al asleep right now, since they're in Austria
Rassah: asciilifeform: No, that would be a few of the Mycelium devs. They described a lot of it to me, since I'm working with them (I'm the one doing the public interraction thing, and running Indiegogo and such)
asciilifeform: Rassah: I think << you are not the designer of this item ?
Rassah: You can check what the software calls for
Rassah: asciilifeform: Atmel SAM4L series running the software, with random number being generated only from SRAM, in combinaton with other things we're considering, like a salt you can add in a TXT file
Rassah: It's a USB stick that you stick into your priner's USB port, it detects a photo, and you hit print, making your printer print a bicoin paper wallet that's never been exposed to the web. Soon as you pull the stick out, the keys are gone for ever
mircea_popescu: gotta find more humane ways to cut the gourd ?
gribble: bitcoinpete was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 hours, 16 minutes, and 52 seconds ago: <bitcoinpete> Rassah: neat rating comment from theymos "Holds BTC for the forum."
Rassah: The only ones on Reddit who brought up issues were the ones I know to have technical backgrounds (sluch, peter todd, a few others who backed up their concerns with actual technical questions). Most everyone else just went gaga over it. I kinda assumed BitcoinPete knew something about cryptography and security, considering his statement, followed by me asking if he'd be interested in doing an audit for us, and him agreeing.
mircea_popescu: or on the internet. or 20. or having a bad day. or w/e.
Rassah: mircea_popescu: Typicall they are one and the same. It's rare that people who dn't know whit about a topic shit all over it. Unless they're politicians
assbot: Cardano : Xmas blown, other statements pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: Is your express purpose for the cam video to get people like Nick Szabo and Taleb to join #-assets?
Rassah: so tech knowledge enough to be able to check how the software works, and maybe hardware knowledge to know what chips are being used in the schematic
mircea_popescu: i guess asciilifeform is the guy who's done most re entropy.
Rassah: Basically, we have people with reservations about the randomness and security of our entropy devices, despite not actually knowing how it works, and we are hoping to get some of tose people to back up their claims
gabriel_laddel: they spend a lot on the homeless every year in SF. I imagine that when they hand it out they sort out the papers for these 'people'.
Rassah: Huh. He's actually the reason I'm in here in the first place. I followed his blog here, after he tweeted that Mycelium Entropy < dice, and agreed once I asked him if he would be interested in auditing out device.
assbot: Startup CEO Dudebro Wishes 'Degenerates' Would Stop Ruining 'The Civilized Part' of San Francisco - LGF Pages
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user bitcoinpete: Level 1: 2, Level 2: 7 via 8 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=bitcoinpete | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=bitcoinpete | Rated since: Fri Mar 28 09:14:47 2014
mircea_popescu: there will be a wrapper around it on day 1.01
mircea_popescu: Rassah the key sharing thing is braindamaged.