BingoBoingo: In other news, how nice is it the USG shut itself down today for a celebration of the day I got on an airplane.
lobbesbot: BingoBoingo: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ( why not simply close the thing -- rather than imitating demise of digg, i do not know )
asciilifeform: so being shot in the head.
trinque: what else was the thing for?
asciilifeform: did see folx at the bazar in trad costume, but it was ~indistinguishable from trad ukr outfit
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i didn't see toga in ro, but then again prolly didn't go to the right reservation.
asciilifeform: 'just one nail was lacking -- / and warhorse came unshod / lamely did the stallion / into battle trod / dead fell the commander/ from his limping ride / routed was the cavalry / 'flee, retreat!' they cried / foe broke through the city gates, / hear the vanquisheds' wail -- / all because the smithy / was missing just one nail.'
mircea_popescu: "it's not the church that has to follow the world ; it's the world that has to follow the church" catholic dictum. romanians don't need the dictum. they live it.
mircea_popescu: romanian peasant proud continuator of rome, through the byzantium method. "we've been holding eyes closed to world for 2k years, because head does not follow reality, reality follows head!"
asciilifeform: are they deeply 'gott mit uns' sorta fellas
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: one's a four-month period and the other a three-, does the hosting subscription start a month before the rockchip?
ben_vulpes: i long ago gave up on the notion that i'd be working on anything approaching techne in american corpistan; but to wail about it instead of ekeing some amount of capital out seems fruitless. lessons of Mocky and phf instructive here.
asciilifeform likes marshak's translation 9000x better than the orig. 'Не было гвоздя -Подкова Пропала. / Не было подковы - Лошадь Захромала./ Лошадь захромала - Командир Убит./ Конница разбита -- Армия Бежит. / Враг вступает в город,/ Пленных не щадя, / Оттого, что в кузнице / Не было
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: .008 for shared hosting (4 months) and 0.03419973 for the Rockchip (3 month), was done that way to synchronize their expirations for the end of January
mircea_popescu: rather, "the sort of brain that thinks this is acceptable, will think so many other idiocies acceptable, anything working out will be miracle rather than technology"
asciilifeform: 'for the want of a nail'(tm)
asciilifeform: the particulars of ben_vulpes's dairy farm are between him and odin, 'whose cow might moo but mine oughta hush', asciilifeform worx on winblowz antiviri in saeculum...
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i'm not saying that i *like* this world, but that i'm going to eke fortune i can with the tools and men at hand.
asciilifeform: ( relays, behold, can rust contacts, but neither envirusate nor crash randomly )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the solution to that doesn't look like 'robot who writes and explains X'. it looks like 'x, what x, we don't need any such x'
a111: Logged on 2018-12-05 13:46 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-05#1878449 << wouldntcha rather use mechanical compilers than meat , if you could ?
mircea_popescu: what, they like him now ?
asciilifeform: in other noose, usg proclaims 'national day of mourning' for dead bush I
asciilifeform: i suppose this is after rats eat the last crapple 'quadra'
a111: Logged on 2018-12-05 06:32 ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878282 << still quite a bit of value in sqlthings in managing fungible programmers. in the same way that common lisp fails at making cogs, mmmapped custom $whatever can be marvelously conservative of time and space, fit entirely in head, and also be anti-cog.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-05#1878449 << wouldntcha rather use mechanical compilers than meat , if you could ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-05#1878451 << mysql also does this, and i recall the history too (anyone remember digg being out for a coupla days because morons hit the max count of db entries, re-defined table to use larger ints, and had to ~rebuild the index offline~ for 30+ hours ?)
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 17:21 BingoBoingo: And the datacenter just sent the statement of account showing receipt of the wires
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes he said yest they cleared, to save you the work : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878002
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878282 << still quite a bit of value in sqlthings in managing fungible programmers. in the same way that common lisp fails at making cogs, mmmapped custom $whatever can be marvelously conservative of time and space, fit entirely in head, and also be anti-cog.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: logs suggest we have 2 outstanding wires; i don't suppose either have cleared yet, have they?
ben_vulpes: write the calculator of change in customer equity account for a given month (which is the biggest manual backbreaker); after that i will do depreciation on the tangibles by hand, update assets and liabilities tables.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: data entry of btc transactions and usd transactions is complete; data entry for prepaid customers and monthly paying customers is quite nearly so. BingoBoingo: please dig through notes and break customer nrCgvFMWCqpO's october payment into one for the rockchip and another for the shell. since they have different time horizons, they need separate subscriptions. asciilifeform: next thing i do is
mircea_popescu: nah. they don't even really have vespas here. just shitty toyotas
a111: Logged on 2017-09-02 21:26 mircea_popescu: now this man... he had a set of 9V lightbulbs. and so as any good respectable citizen i sat down with the dead man's dragon pile, to TEST everythiung I got. yes ?
asciilifeform: phf, mircea_popescu : whether orig src/ns masks/etc lost or not, i dun expect ever to ~see~'em. hence 'reverse with available iron' being the only approach that has chance of working.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-05 02:24 phf: the hypothesis though is not "they lost everything", it's rather that they all have a handful of what they were told were gold chests by people who can actually recognize gold. when poking at contents stuff seems vaguely gold like, so they hold to it hoping to cash it in, never really "having time" to go to an appraiser.
phf: i concede that there might be a faint within a faint, but i can't Munchhausen my way out of that one: i kind of have to assume that my perception of reality somewhat corresponds to reality, rather than a bunch of people playing elaborate games with me
a111: Logged on 2018-11-16 22:50 asciilifeform: there's also the 'is it really ~the~ tapes' aspect. as in the old thing with the gold bars that nobody wants to drill for tungsten. consider for instance how nikola tesla was able to live in the waldorf for years, with the loan collateral being a trunk containing 'great invention of much dangerous power'. when died, turned out to contain a whetstone bridge.
phf: it's possible that one of those boxes actually have gold in it, but the handful that i opened had _mostly_ garbage
phf: the hypothesis though is not "they lost everything", it's rather that they all have a handful of what they were told were gold chests by people who can actually recognize gold. when poking at contents stuff seems vaguely gold like, so they hold to it hoping to cash it in, never really "having time" to go to an appraiser.
phf: asciilifeform: a lot of things happened since 98 though, that predates a couple of particularly gnaly fire sales. also alpha based emulation is "easy" to do from first principles for an experienced symbolics professional, you need an instruction list, some understanding of the architecture and a the sources for the os.
asciilifeform: phf: at the risk of repeating , i dun really buy the 'they lost errything' hypothesis. e.g. as late as '98, the docs req'd to bake the alpha-based emulator, evidently existed
asciilifeform: 'if piano falls, yer $100k box has a chance', i suppose the thinking went
asciilifeform: i like how they used to make workstation case from 5mm steel
phf: i was thinking though of moving it out of the ridiculous steel enclosure, that might make it a touch more transportable
phf: nah, left it at the office. at least there's enough wiring in place to do remote x11 (though i haven't tried yet, have people in place to flip switches, but not necessarily to reseat the boards)
asciilifeform: they're 'portable', yes, in the sense that there's no particular need to transport the crapple 'quadra', can always get from junkyard on-site
asciilifeform: ( whereas i'm pretty sure that i have datashit for erry single item on ivory3 board other than the cpu itself )
phf: re dks and fpga, i'm also not sure that he has enough data, or if he even knows if he has enough, or if the "master" in question has enough. i'm starting to suspect that the reason nothing's moving forward is because it's an intellectual bezel, a cat that's alive only until observed
asciilifeform: phf: re adhoc protocol, it's laid out pretty well, surprisingly, in genera/distribution/sys/embedding/macivory/interface-support ( on the magic iso )
asciilifeform: ( but i'll stop with the analogy before i ruin errybody's appetite )
asciilifeform: i have vaguely positive memory of the fella, minus the part where he answr'd 100% of asciilifeform's attempts to buy sumthing moar than iron, in same way as mcdonalds clerk might react to attempt to buy the mcdonalds
phf: it's more of a mental rolodex of 5 guys who are not in their 70s who are or were actively working with anything at all symbolics. he also knows the ones in their 70s, but those, except for reiner joswig, rarely come up, since they are, at this point, the kind of people who boot their symbolics, if they still have one, once in 5 years to remember the glory days
asciilifeform: tho i suppose could also be cuz asciilifeform successfully persuaded the salt mine he toiled in at the time, to buy alpha+genera, paying dks's rent for month or 2
asciilifeform: phf: funnily enuff, i did the gnarl of the bus already, during (aborted) proj for dks where he asked 'make me a replacement crapple mem expander board for nubus'
phf: re ivory i think we had a thread about macivory being much easier to reverse, since it's all isolated, but you will still have to spend time (re?)learning the gnarly details of apple bus, and whatever adhoc protocol is used to communicate with host. going by an xl might not be a worse option
phf: signing the lease today
lobbesbot: phf: Sent 8 hours and 40 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> i am considering to actually buy the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877988 artifact ; cuz i've come to the conclusion that http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-28#1875722 experiment pretty much requires access to a working unit. otherwise asciilifeform risks a repeat of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1624964 nonsense
lobbesbot: phf: Sent 1 day, 9 hours, and 1 minute ago: <asciilifeform> loox like dks is selling another! 'ivory' on lulzbay >> https://archive.is/Bkm8E
lobbesbot: phf: Sent 6 days, 6 hours, and 6 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> turns out i was wrong re the rom, the rom-shaped object is actually a 1980s 'programmable event timer' thingie, am2971adc
lobbesbot: phf: Sent 6 days, 6 hours, and 9 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> i did finally turn up a high-res (enuff to read the ic labels) shot of ivory2; http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ivory2.jpg << mirrored.
lobbes: unrelatedly mircea_popescu do you care if spyked's rss bot takes over in #eulora? lobbesbot's RSS-tron has always been buggy and is 100% heathen atm. Imo makes sense to just transition to spyked if he is okay with it
a111: Logged on 2018-09-17 19:38 mircea_popescu: trinque tbh i was thinking of revising the voice model altogether, in favour of a voice-or-kick model.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 20:36 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878081 << which new voice model is this then ?
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878323 << y'know, the thread link was in the line you quoted :D. but anyways, here's the top of that thread >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-17#1850999
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878321 << ftr this was indeed an adacore gnat >=2017 (see thread), though I'm not sure about the libc.
mod6: hanbot: glad to hear you're on the mend.
mircea_popescu: who's left in the reich that can write ?
asciilifeform: convenient, that there aint a solzhenitsin writing a 'gitmo archipelag'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, in 1990's Merkel hadn't flooded the EU yet with Petrus-kin
asciilifeform: ( iirc in 1990s ru actually suggested this biz model to eu, but for some mysterious reason the latter balked )
asciilifeform: 'The prison won’t have to measure up to Danish standards either. “I’m sure they [the criminals] would rather serve in a Danish prison, but there needs to be room for many others,” Preben Bang Henriksen, the spokesperson for Venstre party on judicial issues, told DR Nyheder.' << mega-outsource biz idea!11
asciilifeform: 'Negotiations ongoing regarding outsourcing to prison in Lithuania' << bahahaha loox like the nato gulag in ro must be full nao
asciilifeform not terribly astonished that museum doesn't bother to reply to 'hey whydontcha lemme borrow your kohinoor diamond for a spell'
asciilifeform: over the yrs, i've written to a number of folx who have the thing, some 'collectors' , some 'museums' that keep the thing under glass and away from the gold recycling people. but 0 replies. ( tbf, wot problem, they can't readily distinguish asciilifeform from gold recyclers etc )
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 17:34 asciilifeform: currently i see the chance that somebody will lend asciilifeform a unit for 'hey lemme pull and waltz the GALs and i'ma give it back to you, will try not to zap it' as pretty slim.
asciilifeform: aha, writing files / db queries really can be seen as elaborate ritual where you sacrifice to moloch and beg the iron to prettypleeez not lose yer bits when cord pulled
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 16:25 asciilifeform: in other lulz, asciilifeform's 35th today
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 23:30 lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878032 << I actually ended up getting a logbot_command_router-based self-voicing thing working (auctionbot uses it), but it uses the interface-with-gpg method instead of the stash-of-OTP method, and considering we may be moving to a new voice model anyways I did not publish (http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-17#1851087)
spyked: next step will be to get this + some of the code it depends on (namely, xml+rss parsers) published.
spyked: all done. all feeds should be now delivered from the feedbot end. if someone doesn't get theirs delivered, pl0x to poke me.
trinque: spyked: stopped the service on my end
asciilifeform: ” they tell him, “the October holidays will soon be here, the anniversary of the Revolution. Give us a bit more for the anniversary and they’ll probably lop a couple more years off.” So he hands in his gold in installments—some for November 7, some for May 1, then for Constitution Day, and maybe even for March 8 (Women’s Day). The investigator gets his bonuses, the snoopers early release, and the millionaire—a bullet.'
asciilifeform: was shot. There were many ridiculous aspects to this form of bargaining. Underground millionaires are reluctant to part with their accumulated riches, but they don’t want to lose their lives either, so they start giving up their gold bit by bit, swearing each time that this installment is the last. But the investigators and the snoopers are perfectly well aware that there is more to come, and they keep up the pressure. “Listen,
asciilifeform: 'The story was very typical. The famous Roifman who was at the center of the first of the “textile trials” also kept his mouth shut, so that not even the snoopers could talk him round. Then he was summoned to see Semichastny, head of the KGB, and Malyarov, the Deputy Public Prosecutor, who gave him their sincere Party word that he wouldn’t be shot if he gave up his riches. Roifman believed them, handed in his valuables—and
a111: Logged on 2018-12-02 20:01 asciilifeform raged. hence prepared microscope slide with the thing in formaldehyde, for if anyone ever walks in bukovsky to link..
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878233 <-- ty trinque! processing them atm and will notify you when feedbot is ready to fire up
asciilifeform: what it loox like, is that the derps were willing to make N numeric guesses for q#1, and that occasionally fired. but for q#2, none
asciilifeform: in other noose, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877390 appears to work 100%, no turds in modqueue, fullstop
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 20:04 asciilifeform enhanced the spam trap a little bit
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile in the local language: https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/cuando-concha-dejo-de-ser-un-pan-dulce-y-se-convirtio-en-una-mala-palabra-2018124102320
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 17:25 asciilifeform: and so happens that i've dug up the src for the supporting proggy that talked to it, 5 or so yrs ago
asciilifeform: ( prolly oughta extend http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878295 with : 'it's on the piratebay iso' , lest anyone mutter 'whisperers' )
asciilifeform: currently i see the chance that somebody will lend asciilifeform a unit for 'hey lemme pull and waltz the GALs and i'ma give it back to you, will try not to zap it' as pretty slim.
asciilifeform: and so happens that i've dug up the src for the supporting proggy that talked to it, 5 or so yrs ago
a111: Logged on 2018-11-28 19:41 asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf i did finally turn up a high-res (enuff to read the ic labels) shot of ivory2; http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ivory2.jpg << mirrored.
asciilifeform: 'ivory' board, however ( http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-28#1875835 ) is moar or less exactly the correct item, it's a minimal set of support logic for the chip, and piggybacks on ancient 1980s crapple ( box that's been reversed nine ways to pluto and 100% emulatable today ) for i/o
asciilifeform: and hah, loox like dks is also selling a https://www.ebay.com/itm/Symbolics-XL401-lisp-workstation-with-Genera-8-3/113419020606 ( phf-style machine ) nao . it is not however fit for the experiment, much moar complex board ( given as it's a standalone box )
asciilifeform: pretty painful proposition, to pick up a $5k board simply to read off the GALs and xray the pcb. but unless somebody has one to lend for the purpose, i dun see how that dig will ever move beyond 'i have these here 2 ic's' without access to orig ivory pcb.
asciilifeform: sadly they aint getting any cheaper..
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-28 16:26 phf: asciilifeform: before you agree to a decap, give me some more time to get you the docs, maybe they'll be enough to get things going. i'd hate to lose an ivory to get some pretty but useless pictures, i'd rather it fry on a breadboard in the process of directed discovery
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 16:48 asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf loox like dks is selling another! 'ivory' on lulzbay >> https://archive.is/Bkm8E
asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf i am considering to actually buy the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877988 artifact ; cuz i've come to the conclusion that http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-28#1875722 experiment pretty much requires access to a working unit. otherwise asciilifeform risks a repeat of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1624964 nonsense
asciilifeform: i.e. ugly hacks around the idiocies of the machine arch, where ram is 1) laughably small 2) dies when power cut 3) poorly impedance-matched with persistent storage 4) persisted 'in software' rather than as reliable function of the iron, resulting in (2)
a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 22:32 asciilifeform: 'The situation is somewhat akin to a retarded girlfriend trying to flood your apartment, that not only opens all the faucets and stops all the drains, but also takes the "extremely clever" measure of puncturing the water pipes, so she can then preciously inform you that "turning off the faucets won't help" and you must work with her to somehow create a raft out of your widescreen TV so as to navigate the marshy terrain that used to b
asciilifeform: ~if~ yer pushing the very limits of what's physically possible on your iron, as in e.g. phuctor -- THEN is the time to massage/hyperoptimize. not otherwise.
asciilifeform: also must add that, on a machine having the http://www.loper-os.org/?p=231 property, 99+% of the use cases for 'db' disappear
asciilifeform: as often is the case, the answr to 'doctor, it hurts when i do that' is 'don't do that'
a111: Logged on 2018-11-19 23:11 asciilifeform: the fact that it feels to noobs like 'unnatural acrobatics' is an artifact of writer suddenly having to pay that actual cost of the complexity inflicted on reader. and yes folx whined, just like in ex-ussr folx whined when they started having to pay for mains current .
a111: Logged on 2018-09-18 18:22 asciilifeform: this is the other thing, 'changes are expensive' promote imho a sane view of software, where you actually try to perma-stabilize yer proggy, rather than to keep up the classic 'open sores' eternal cauldron of bubbling liquishit
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 07:01 mircea_popescu: (if at every node there's multiple tree splits, "here's logbot with mysql, here's logbot with postgres, here's logbot with flatfile, then there's ircbot with mysql, ircbot with..." and so on, the point of even having V is lost, the expense of maintaining the chaos rapidly exceeds the benefits of not living in chaos, and we're right back at "only way to do versioning is github". because yes, for idiots, the sort of disorganise
asciilifeform: speaking of oldl0gz, re: the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878220 thing , http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851362 , http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-19#1873687
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 06:59 mircea_popescu: we're stuck with paper bridges between pantsuit alt-reality and the construction of republican sanity, which have to be expensively (if temporarily) maintained. the management of the leaking insanity will be a major function of the lordship and overal brain sink going forward, because obviously a bevy of "patch-this-for-that" could at least in principle overburden V conceptually to the point of failure.
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878219 << I will say over the past couple weeks the time spent log re-reading recent logs has had to go up
asciilifeform: in other lulz, asciilifeform's 35th today
Mocky: also i still need to finish baking these last 7 Qatar blog posts I wrote up
Mocky: I feel lost tho, 2 days behind in the logs, no idea what's going on :D
asciilifeform: Mocky: how goes the salt mine search ?
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 07:22 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878206 << awareness of the letter ʃ / esh would be a great boon, considering it's causing the majority of transliteration errors.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878229 << i could be the only one, but the old-school 'integral sign' s never bothered me. devil knows , there's even worse fonts on the web-o'shit today
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, i'm not arguing correctness, i'm arguing environment fitness. much like "man is the ~only~ biology success". not intended to mean man's a defensible design.
mircea_popescu: all other "technology" wank, from wikipedia to social media to what have you, "anti-nonfree-internet civil society movement" rests on it and naught else.
asciilifeform: for the 'cockroaches after ww3' def of success.
mircea_popescu: lamp was, in strict historical terms, the ~only~ linux success.
mircea_popescu: or other things. this pit will be open for years.
mircea_popescu: it's also possible that we simply end up gutting ye olde lamp stack, replacing the dna and keeping the capsid.
mircea_popescu: it's not exactly clear to me yet what the situation is. it's altogether possible postgres may be rescuable through a process similar to how "peculiar linux candidate packaging sterilized into cuntoo".
asciilifeform: ( and yes it is possible to write certain proggies such that they work with 'any sql db' -- sort how it is also possible to write a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-27#1875332 . but in the general case -- failed )
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 06:56 mircea_popescu: so no, there's no such thing as "i want mysql and he wants postgres" possible, there has to be an "use this db system for these reasons" much further upstream.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878217 << observe that the nominal idea behind sql -- 'pluggable, standardized db' -- has failed. sorta like 'unix philosophy'.
a111: Logged on 2014-11-06 01:48 asciilifeform: there's also a school of thought where 'notation is worth 80 iq points' and roman numerals are deservingly gone from mathematics
mircea_popescu: (kinda interesting thing, too -- getting rid of the long s type happened in the middle of that century, and people seem to have regarded it as a sort of http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-06#912088 )
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 00:58 asciilifeform: i dun expect these will ever be OCR'd, hand-typesetted-cum-diagrams newtonola is possibly a bridge too far for ocr.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878206 << awareness of the letter ʃ / esh would be a great boon, considering it's causing the majority of transliteration errors.
mircea_popescu: not avoidable task anyway, we're stuck pretty much writing a fs anyway, eventually. however, the former is how we build to the latter, so.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-13 03:25 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i used a 'trigraph' index, they're O(~n log n) , if yer interested.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-15 02:09 BingoBoingo: On the plus size, I did learn that using MyISAM instead of Innodb actual RAM available on the Rockchip for not MySQL
mircea_popescu: sad fact of the matter is, mysql works extremely well for one edge of what we do (witness http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-15#1872279 ) while postgres works extremely well for another edge of what we do (witness http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-13#1861669 ).
mircea_popescu: that said, yes there's evidently a mysql-vs-postrgres holy war in the brewing here. but i don't think that boil's baked enough for lancing just yet.
mircea_popescu: d minds that produce the sort of crap one finds on github, indeed github's the necessary manner and only way.)
mircea_popescu: (if at every node there's multiple tree splits, "here's logbot with mysql, here's logbot with postgres, here's logbot with flatfile, then there's ircbot with mysql, ircbot with..." and so on, the point of even having V is lost, the expense of maintaining the chaos rapidly exceeds the benefits of not living in chaos, and we're right back at "only way to do versioning is github". because yes, for idiots, the sort of disorganise
mircea_popescu: we're stuck with paper bridges between pantsuit alt-reality and the construction of republican sanity, which have to be expensively (if temporarily) maintained. the management of the leaking insanity will be a major function of the lordship and overal brain sink going forward, because obviously a bevy of "patch-this-for-that" could at least in principle overburden V conceptually to the point of failure.
mircea_popescu: this doesn't jive with the current situation, true, but it's in the sense of "healthy domestic relationships do not jive with usg.familycourt nonsense" / "good health dun work with cancer cells present" and so on.
mircea_popescu: so no, there's no such thing as "i want mysql and he wants postgres" possible, there has to be an "use this db system for these reasons" much further upstream.
mircea_popescu: frankly stated this is patent idiocy, the decision of whether eg driving on right or on left can not possibly come AFTER one has decided whether they want to go out to pub or disco.
mircea_popescu: spyked re http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/080-botworks-regrind.html#fn4 : the "wrong cut" i'm affraid is the baked-in expectation that you (the impersonal you) might "choose" among "versions" of something as fundamental as the db system, somewhere as late in the flow of things as the userland.
mircea_popescu: back when people abbreviated because literally lacked the ink and paper
mircea_popescu enjoys the spectacle of an alf enjoying himself.
asciilifeform: i dun expect these will ever be OCR'd, hand-typesetted-cum-diagrams newtonola is possibly a bridge too far for ocr.
asciilifeform: ( could've just as easily been a 3MB djvu, but the derps evidently dun know that this exists )
asciilifeform: https://ia800209.us.archive.org/0/items/philosophicaltra2917roya/philosophicaltra2917roya_bw.pdf << 35 MB (!) scanturd , but displays ok on the box i keep for the purpose
asciilifeform: ( makes sense, the name, thing tends to get pounded flat and acquire a roadkill-like leathery appearance )
asciilifeform: 'An Account of what appear'd on opening the big-belly'd Woman near Haman in Shropshire, who was suppos'd to have continued many Years with Child' -- iirc we even had the thread !
mircea_popescu: well it's not a scan worth the mention. but they are far from uncommon, most (serious) uni libraries should have really.
asciilifeform: i had nfi these'd been scanned
asciilifeform: ( there is also phf's www-displaying one, but that one isn't a system proggy or published as such )
asciilifeform: afaik there are currently 3 working ( i.e. with keccak format ) vtrons , v.py ( as patched by phf ) , v.pl ( patched by diana_coman ) and esthlos
a111: Logged on 2018-08-21 18:28 asciilifeform: all i particularly care for in re scripting is to obtain a replacement for perl/python/bash where the interpreter is simple (i.e. readable, fits-in-head, auditable, correct)
asciilifeform: ( to enlinuxize, had to open it and put crocodiles on the eeprom . but iron was flaky, thing sometimes would wake from sleepmode with x11 mutilated , etc )
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 19:31 asciilifeform: spyked: it's the 1st one most folx used, given as it was the first vtron
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 19:28 asciilifeform: i find this intolerable on any box used for anything serious whatsoever, so my c101pa is presently gathering dust
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 17:21 BingoBoingo: And the datacenter just sent the statement of account showing receipt of the wires
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878002 << o hallelujah! well so then great, ty Mocky_ & everyone involved, pizarro sitting pretty for once!
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 17:13 asciilifeform: ( loox like it's 1 of those 'haha, he thinks he has courage, let him sit in gulag! see how much courage then!' sorta flames )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877995 << it's absurdist, not even clear there's actual structure underneath the form (in the sense of "haha, you thought was structured ? idiot! kek")
mircea_popescu: anyway, for citizens interested in more serious work : i shall prolly delay report making for a few days, because well, this month started with apendicitis hanbot, and i'm not going to force the very pleasant locals to set up their er/surgery hotel with my complicated red boxes.
mircea_popescu: the encounters of intelligent people always have this mocky flavour, "fuck me, i was sitting here looking for a bitcoin game now it seems i'm going to qatar ?! these people ask the wrong fucking questions!"
asciilifeform also did not always have theorem to prove
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform period mp had exactly 0 theorems to prove.
mircea_popescu: yet i am convinced you can play 2d games until the end of creation not unearth me another chet.
mircea_popescu: whereas hanbot & i ran into each other literally on collarme forums.
mircea_popescu: for what it's worth, chet & i ran into each other on meanwhile-defunct 2d game /me briefly played while being hidden away in a bunker many years ago, to not go entirely fucking mad.
mircea_popescu: right ? suppose you found your wife through chain of events thereby started. shall i ask you %q's about wife-finding now ?
asciilifeform: ( extermination dun usually require ~speaking~ to the roaches )
asciilifeform: yrs ago when asciilifeform earned bread as a sort of spammer exterminator, also usually engaged manually for own amusement, rather than to any particular other end
mircea_popescu: ie this conflates two rather different interests.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, think -- spam trap WITH LIVE IDIOT on other end. did you never feel like "hey, are you stupid ?" @those doods ?
mircea_popescu: but anyway, i usually read the extreme scores, if doing nothing in particular. not exactly a waste of time, the shit that gets dredged up...
mircea_popescu: the current estimate is about ~1 ppm, give or take 65%. which i'm sure she'll love to read in the log. howdy slut!
a111: Logged on 2017-05-22 15:29 mircea_popescu: collarme.com was the original ; entitled wifey tried to run off with domain name / blackmail hubby. lengthy "awareness raising" fembs. dude ignored her thoroughly, reg'd new name, six weeks later she's entirely forgotten.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's 1 with more, not fewer ; then there's the 100% bot items, like http://qntra.net/2016/12/ashley-madison-settles-again/
asciilifeform: or is there really just that 1
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja ever rule out hypothesis that there's a diff heathen pit where moar % actual people and fewer % elizas ?
mircea_popescu: as a very basic intro level (like "atom is cake with electron raisins in it"), they have a 60% rule, where the response wordcount will be on a curve centered on ~60% of input. yes sometimes will answer 120% or like in the rare case quoted yest, perturber in excited state, 600%. nevertheless, if you sum over the millions...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it doesn't work, because believe this wonder! they have built-in de-engager (they follow complex rules as to the volume of comms, that look oddly reminiscent of "why fusion won't go")
mircea_popescu: (you understand, what she ~actually means~ is that i should send her whatever test i want her to take, ~in the form her Divine Mother taught her to test-take~.)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ever try bot that picks 2 derps and sets'em against 1 another ?
mircea_popescu: this is the point im making. before fetlife lulz, i thought as you do, "eliza a+ idiot emulator"
asciilifeform: the 'people' are very similar parrots tho.
asciilifeform: just set the knobs.
mircea_popescu: this sort of procedure creates high poetry, to be remembered over the millenia. if, of course, in the hands of humans as opposed to whatever-us-got.
asciilifeform: there's, what, 5 or 6 things they emit ( incl. the 'i have a dom' , 'i am a dom', etc claptrap )
mircea_popescu: eliza will come up with the idea of "messaging her intelligence" ? ie, enact it as a distinct-disembodied-totem of herself ?
asciilifeform: wainot ? just seed the eliza with buncha variants of same garbage 'ugh i can't see what's in the msg box' and yer golden
mircea_popescu: this whole fetlife thing has firmly convinced me i'd have been deeply unequipped to convincingly write a millenial before. one really needs to experience the unleashed stupid to be able to conceptualize just what garbage these shitstacks are.
mircea_popescu: LordMPofTMSR 38M Master 3h "Think of it as an intelligence test. That you're failing." Violet13s 21F sub 3h 'Well whatever you said in the subject box I can't see so I have no idea what " intelligence test " your trying to have me show you. So I'm not really failing, if you want to find out my intelligence you should just message it.'
mircea_popescu: jesus christ these #mootoo's.
lobbes: However, if anyone wants (once I get a proper keccak v going) I can make a private patch on request (a la http://trilema.com/2018/the-v-questionarium-answerarium-2018-edition/#selection-327.0-327.204)
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 19:50 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877986 <-- cheers! /me is looking forward to that (then adding http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862345 to logbot shouldn't be very difficult)
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878032 << I actually ended up getting a logbot_command_router-based self-voicing thing working (auctionbot uses it), but it uses the interface-with-gpg method instead of the stash-of-OTP method, and considering we may be moving to a new voice model anyways I did not publish (http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-17#1851087)
lobbes: anyways, I'm try this later on a sane os, and with a gnat < 2017 (will also re-read some of the recent gnat threads).
lobbes: seems borked there as well
lobbes: btv: I wonder if just my strace is borked. here's the trace from vpatch < patches/eucrypt_genesis.vpatch >> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/GU1GJ/?raw=true
spyked switches off for the night
lobbes: at this point I'm thinking I may just retry this on, say, the rockchip. I dun want to burn republican hours on what just may be debian/shitgnome strange.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 21:39 asciilifeform: ( does it ever create the file at that path ? if so, failed ? etc )
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878051 << does not create the file, but creates the directories
lobbes: however I'm not sure even -strace- is working (or perhaps I'm just doing it wrong). for e.g. here's an strace of just "./vk.pl". It just hangs and gives nothing else (same as if I strace the press or just strace "cat /dev/null") >> http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/QN42P/?raw=true
lobbes: diana_coman, bvt: this was indeed a newer adacore (from May 2018) https://www.adacore.com/download. I'm going to look into the tempfile thread alf mentioned. may very well be the same issue
spyked: hey trinque, you still on for changing rss bots? I should be around for another 30 minutes or so. depending on the number of feeds/subscribers, it may take me a while to check/add everything, so we could do this in two steps: you send me the subscriptions (pm, #trilema and everything else) tonight whenever you can, and then I'll add them tomorrow and fire up feedbot whenever you're available to turn off deedbot rss
diana_coman: hm, if it's indeed the tmp thing, it might be worth a try to press vtools to current leaf (i.e. vtools_tempfile_standalone or _notmp) and see if that cures it; my archive contains pressed vtools to ksum patch only, not further
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 20:52 lobbes: Since this was my first time using vtools, I used diana's "starter v" with the build.sh. Script ran fine, and vtools such as ksum are working. I installed GNAT from https://www.adacore.com/download (the x86-64 GNU Linux). I'm on my debian box, gcc version 4.9.2
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878042 << btw current standard gnat is ave1's , you can use the heathen one (at least with asciilifeform's proggies, worx) but 'no warranty'
asciilifeform: ( does it ever create the file at that path ? if so, failed ? etc )
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 20:52 lobbes: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/sV2GA/?raw=true << diana_coman, asciilifeform, or other users of vk.pl, have you encountered this barf before? Trying to test my installation of diana_coman's v setup by pressing eucrypt from http://ossasepia.com/reference-code-shelf/
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1878041 << this loox possibly like failure of the tempfile mechanism ( as discussed in recent thread )
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 20:09 mircea_popescu: but i mean, they had elaborate (and interesting) customs, how many scabs, how long to dry (fresh scabs pretty much communicate variola, but dry ones are safe because virions very fragile, readily inactivated by dryness), which nostril to use (girls got left), how to make the blower and what out of (silver) and so on.
lobbes been staring at terminal most of the day, so gonna step away to grab some $food. bbl
lobbes: Since this was my first time using vtools, I used diana's "starter v" with the build.sh. Script ran fine, and vtools such as ksum are working. I installed GNAT from https://www.adacore.com/download (the x86-64 GNU Linux). I'm on my debian box, gcc version 4.9.2
lobbes: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/sV2GA/?raw=true << diana_coman, asciilifeform, or other users of vk.pl, have you encountered this barf before? Trying to test my installation of diana_coman's v setup by pressing eucrypt from http://ossasepia.com/reference-code-shelf/
mircea_popescu: but i mean, they had elaborate (and interesting) customs, how many scabs, how long to dry (fresh scabs pretty much communicate variola, but dry ones are safe because virions very fragile, readily inactivated by dryness), which nostril to use (girls got left), how to make the blower and what out of (silver) and so on.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 16:54 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you know of specifics re the 'millenia' item, i'd be quite curious to see, 1st time i hear of this notion (outside of the hindu nationalist lolcows, who are deadly certain that they had nuke and supercomputer 'millenia' ago also.. )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877991 << it's pretty certain ming chinese used "insert bits of sick person" process, via insufflation of scabs. this part is not controversial, there's multiple period descriptions of the item.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-14 15:05 lobbes: (to begin, it will not have self-voice capability. Spyked's voicer is for the ircbot branch of the tree sadly, so I will need to add voicing to the logbot branch. However, I figure that can wait for another day)
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 16:27 lobbes: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/080-botworks-regrind.html << this is pretty cool Spyked. I'ma give your regrind of logbot_command_router_python_genesis a test and if it all presses I'll sign
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877986 <-- cheers! /me is looking forward to that (then adding http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-14#1862345 to logbot shouldn't be very difficult)
trinque: nah, how bout now then?
spyked: (or I can arrange getting up early one of the following days, say wednesday to fit trinque's schedule)
spyked: trinque, I can do in max 3hrs from now (I'm on utc+2 time, and will have to go sleep soon). but yeah, send me all the subscriptions when you have time, so I can cross-check with the ones that I have.
asciilifeform: remember, they sell that thing as a dumb terminal, with only a token bone thrown to 'yes you can install own os' notion
trinque: spyked: you want to do the RSS handoff this evening (in say 8hrs, since I dunno where you're at on this orb) ?
asciilifeform: spyked: it does, and immediately , if you forget the ctrl-d 'dev mode' ritual