mircea_popescu: he remembers the end ofwords
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: What was your earlier maybe project that got supplanted, the resistor?
decimation: most of the modems that are now in use on shortwave are designed to turn the natural broadcast medium into a point-to-point link
asciilifeform: because folks who eagerly push the limits of the permissible - will find themselves dealt out of the game.
asciilifeform: the beauty of a wot-enabled net is that you no longer need to think about perverse edge cases quite so much.
asciilifeform: all thieves. ted nelson wrote about it in no uncertain language, in the late '60s.
asciilifeform: (to pervert the liberast slogan 'a different world is possible')
asciilifeform: wanted to be sure to hammer in the point.
mircea_popescu: but for that you need the cardano.
asciilifeform: the riddle is not difficult.
asciilifeform: nah, that's what the nonce (see, i left out details i consider profanely obvious) is for
decimation: well, I guess if you didn't have it, you would have to store all of the irrelvant derpage until you could check it
asciilifeform: the ephemeral key is absolutely necessary.
decimation: asciilifeform: why bother with the emphemeral key? wouldn't a signed blob (however you do the error coding) be good enough?
mircea_popescu: because the telcos WILL do a mickey mouse or should i say microsoft version of it
mircea_popescu: if it doesn't like the sig
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the important part isn't even trhere, the important part is that the machine WONT ROUTE
asciilifeform: i've deliberately described only a point-to-point link. routing with multiple hops is left as an exercise for the reader!
asciilifeform: to finish the earlier thread: machine on the other end of the link (destination) decides whether to keep packet and attempt payload reassembly based on simple criteria: 1) is it a hello from a wot-blessed (from his pov) key 2) is it signed by an ephemeral key from one such 'hello' received recently.
decimation: I managed to get that pci card with the onboard ocxo working with a slightly custom ntp driver
decimation: I've actually spent some time reading the ntp source code
decimation: re: ntp amplification << the thing is, ntp tends to run on actual servers people might care about, so they might respond to notices
asciilifeform: and any other slow, noisy channel.
asciilifeform: at any rate, tiny packets plus fountain code plus each one is signed, will work great with transmission media other than internet (say, shortwave)
mircea_popescu: wqasn't the actuyal max 64kb anyway ?
asciilifeform: fucking magic numbers << mircea_popescu wants to buy everyone on the planet a new nic and lay own oceanic fibers, launch own satellites, etc. ? sure, why not.
asciilifeform: what follows is the payload, divided into K gibblets, each below udp mtu in size, each signed with ephemeral key. the gibblets are coded using fountain code (e.g. 'raptor') and you need N of K - in any order - to reassemble.
mircea_popescu: why do you want to preserve the fucking magic numbers
asciilifeform: here's a very rough description of above experiment. to start a transmission a --> b, 'a' sends a hello (udp) packet, which consists of an ephemeral rsa key, hash and length of (coming) payload, and all of the preceding signed with his wot key. this fits handily below the traditional 576 byte mtu.
mircea_popescu: there is however no higher purpose.
mircea_popescu: totally ruined the moment for 'em. idiots.
mircea_popescu: aside of which, friday some derp was going on about what "his life is dedicated to" and in the crowd hysteria i told em my life is dedicated to excluding people.
mircea_popescu: the extreme power of this idea is evidenced by how effectual it is even when poorly implemented.
asciilifeform: but really it was because posts were attached to identities (as a matter of convention, rather than 'hard' protocol)
BingoBoingo: http://openbenchmarking.org/result/1412060-LI-KFREEBSD879 << Look the Derps still benchmark OS software but have lost the ability to benchmark with... Same hardware!
mircea_popescu: once you get the proper voice model implemented, forgeddaboutit
asciilifeform: whole thing was based (in my head) on a hypothesis that folks misidentify the reason for the glory of old usenet
mircea_popescu: and absolutely NEVER allow any derps on it. stick to the original plan with the original internet, no fucking undergrads.
asciilifeform: rather opposite goal to 'tor.'
asciilifeform: i may have spoken of this once. i've a very rough draft of precisely this, using an interesting bit of mathematics called 'fountain code'
asciilifeform: if want some other network - have to produce it.
asciilifeform: let's rephrase a little. the internet as presently exists, is, in practice, mainly a machine for 1) connecting derps to 'reddit' and 'arsebook' 2) routing ddos packets to trilema, qntra...
mircea_popescu: in short, the more i think about it the more im inclined to rather see the telcos win the internet war, adn google lose it
mircea_popescu: that is the definition of design : rules independent of events.
asciilifeform: i can think of a few events that would apply the necessary upward pressure on bandwidth cost.
mircea_popescu: the reason is not economical, nor sensible.
asciilifeform: only the lowliest sp4mz0r actually pays for bots.
mircea_popescu: that is what im saying. to get a packet there, you need more than one
mircea_popescu: right, which goes through thermodynamic dissipation aka friction.
asciilifeform: ddos still exists if network treats random derp in random place equally with the folks whose traffic one actually wants.
mircea_popescu: exactly for the reason you mention : who can afford or wants to give anyone free traffic ?
mircea_popescu: as long as friction is baked in, the ddos problem fundamentally doesn't exist.
mircea_popescu: you always get less than what you put in. this is the chief principle that makes the world endure
asciilifeform: the problem with 'amplification attack' isn't that i can send b bytes and get K*b back. failing this - tremendous waste! problem in actuality is spoofed packets getting routed, which at this point is always and without exception the result of idiot network designers and admins
BingoBoingo: Plenty of derps masterbate to the idea of tits without experiencing or understanding them
asciilifeform: *theory
asciilifeform distinctly recalls that half the u.s. research establishment at one point furiously masturbated to game theorey
mircea_popescu: every anything used in an amplification attack meets the criteria.
asciilifeform: who? - made what? - while unaware of game theory?
mircea_popescu: it's like a beautifully drawn mmorpg made by blizzard. you KNOW the economy will be broken to all shit.
ben_vulpes: once upon a time, computers were such that children could actually reason about them.
assbot: Logged on 08-12-2014 16:32:51; asciilifeform: ddos << there will come the day when folks will remember the 'route to anybody who asks first-come-first-serve' internet - with disgust.
assbot: Logged on 08-12-2014 17:09:27; asciilifeform: where every packet knows who paid for it << those who imagine a wot-routing based net as a rent-seekers' paradise are mistaken. it is today's net that is a rent-seeker's paradise, where folks who cannot abide ddos must buy bandwidth in vast excess of their normal needs
mircea_popescu: mullenweg and the core of imbeciles "working" at wordpress go around claiming they program computers
asciilifeform: (the latter tends to sit on fatter pipe, however. so i've no idea which one wins in practice.)
asciilifeform: there are considerably more misconfigured consumer routers, tv boxes, electrical dildoes, etc. than 'wordpress' installs.
mircea_popescu: you want the time ? ask twice. the server answers each request pair once, in the order of descending delta intervals.
asciilifeform: hence x gets the reply.
mircea_popescu: the solution is to not send 500 packets in response to one
mircea_popescu: this is not the solution.
mircea_popescu: not trivial to know where a packet enters tho. they do have to traverse it anyway
mircea_popescu: there IS something wrong to treating packets like fucking popcorn.
mircea_popescu: there's nothing wrong with declaring your ip
asciilifeform: this in turn is fundamental braindamage baked into a good chunk of the net.
asciilifeform: all of the 'amplification' tricks rely on the ability to send (and see them routed) packets with spoofed origin ip.
mircea_popescu: the world would be so much better if all the gmaxwells of this world were never taught to read.
asciilifeform: they answer to any fool who can send some spoofed packets.
asciilifeform: same principles apply to ntp flooding as earlier ssdp - anyone who wishes can 'walk away with' the 'bots'.
cazalla: and it's that bullshit law which enables mohammed to hold down a chocolate shop for almost 24 hours.. the gov actually enabled him to do better than he could if the playing field was level
asciilifeform: from the department of nyooz yoo can yooze - kakobrekla provided data from which we learn that ddos man has switched from ssdp to ntp 'amplification' attack (see literature.)
cazalla: if the law permitted us to carry weapons, would've ended much sooner as well
undata: mircea_popescu: there's "ionice" which might help those cases
mircea_popescu: im bashing the kako ass ass comment.
adlai tries with convert, let's see how bad the RAMrape gets
BingoBoingo: I really think it is irresponsible the dude didn't bring some serious stimulants with him. I mean the police get to have shift changes.
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeYsTmIzjkw << my humble proposal for a isis.oz anthem
mircea_popescu: "i was gonna do thinks with my gun... but then i got tired... then i got tired... and fell asleep"
mircea_popescu: "The #4890 pull-req in question had no ACKs at all, and only two untested utACKS, which I find worrying for something that made significant consensus critical code changes." via BingoBoingo
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: famous
mircea_popescu: anyway, dumbass proxies desynced and started running around topless in the dc.
adlai: good thing the chart scraper was turned off, it would've captured a cartload of horseshit
kakobrekla: mats it seem they are right this time. dik, get a real client or smth.
mats: nah a cloak won't take precedence over the irccloud one
jurov: slight correction: they don't open accounts for USians they only said to me "our customers use usd" .. i just misextrapolated
BingoBoingo: What the fuck. "I am near you would like to be customer" "Fuck you, our customers are Americans so we can scam them with impunity"
jurov: i was like wtf how they imagine offering usd coupon codes to muricans when everyone else was forced to stop doing it
jurov: already i got into argument with these coinmates.. since their czech ass is close to eurozone and they offer sepa/czk
kakobrekla: we sincerely apologize but our site was under a massive Distributed Denial of Service attack. We have reconfigured our servers for full protection by one of the world's best DDOS protection providers, so there will not be any downtime in the future. Our service has now world-class security.
jurov: argh, every github hipster now wires travis ci to their project
thestringpuller: "We choose to bitcoin company in the bitcoin way" - some derp CEO of some coinderp company. These quotes are getting ridiculous.
kakobrekla: if you get the msg, yer phucked
mats: but, hey, israel allows chihuahuas to serve in their infantry units!!!
mats: don't worry BingoBoingo, trainers will lower requirements so the chihuahuas can graduate
asciilifeform: ddos aficionados scan the net for these boxes, and then sell (or sometimes simply post) the resulting chump list
asciilifeform: for the impatient: the way this particular type of ddos works is called 'amplification.' certain kinds of misconfigured consumer routers will send several packets to victim ip for every packet received from the diddler's. hence amp.
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/teenage-boys-the-premier-source-of-comedy-gold/
asciilifeform: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:L1ay4bsEJyIJ:www.hackforums.net/showthread.php%3Ftid%3D4427786+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us << from same snakepit, explanation for the thickest
davout: mircea_popescu: so you're using mysqlol on the proxies
asciilifeform: interestingly, they do not publish the ips, but did post this graphic: https://ssdpscan.shadowserver.org/all/ssdp_hilbert_4096_current.png << from which you can easily derive them!
assbot: The Shadowserver Foundation: Simple Service Discovery Protocol (SSDP) Scanning Project ... ( http://bit.ly/1svOj5H )
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: if you can be bothered, try the experiment again, with tcpdump log. and post or send privately (i only need packet payloads and originator ip)
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell kakobrekla when you measured the 1+gb/sec or whatever of ddos, didja log incoming packets ?
gribble: Monty Python - Hospital Sketch - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arCITMfxvEc>; The Meaning of Life (1983) - Quotes - IMDb: <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0085959/quotes>; Monty Python's The Meaning of Life - Wikiquote: <http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Monty_Python's_The_Meaning_of_Life>
kakobrekla: ah yes, the ping machine!
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> the way this guy cuts down on all the dumb idlers that imagine whatever, b-a is just another channel, can autopilot in is so fucking great srlsy. << too strong of a noob filter imho. more spport for the casuals!
mircea_popescu: they're just clueless idiots.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't understand how the world works!1111!!
asciilifeform: at first it works, but then some freenode bot instantly removes it << wtf is the deal with the 'cloaking' thing anyway. why the idiocy of displaying ip by default ?
mircea_popescu: if they're specially denominated, yeah.
davout: from what i understand, it's usually the case that the N and N+1 contracts trade simultaneously during a few days at least
davout: absolutely, but at any point of time there can't be only a single contract type trading, unlike what i understand from the usual future contracts where at some point both contracts are trading simultaneously
mircea_popescu: but these aren't two dollar bills. one is a dollar bill of your paycheck today. the other is a dollar bill of your paycheck next month. they aren't fungible.
davout: well, just because two dollar bills have a different serial number doesn't make it very useful to distinguish them, likewise it does not seem very useful to me to want to distinguish between these, maybe it's just me but i don't see what problem this solves
mircea_popescu: because they are actually different things.
davout: i guess that what i'm trying to clear up is the question: "why do you want to distinguish them?"
davout: if one automatically turns into the other one at some point they sure look like the same to me
davout: i could understand the "it's actually two different assets" point if at some point you had to sell the old one and buy the new one
mircea_popescu: anyway, you'll get the new set later today, nottin' to get too excited about.
davout: because the way i see it, it could perfectly make sense to say "if you want delivery, email me before cutoff minus 24h, push the asset, email receipt, and you get delivered on the settlement date"
mircea_popescu: this works ok if therer's some time separation.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: is this why there were options appended with T and N
davout: could you elaborate on the settlement spot ?
davout: mircea_popescu: old and new can be distinguished by the current timestamp, after cutoff all "old" contracts turn into "new"
davout: thestringpuller: ah thx
assbot: You had the last Philistine. This one's mine.
mircea_popescu: anyways, nice going. it's fun to have the ath yest.
cazalla: who are all these asians though
cazalla: wouldn't it be other way around? savvy reader blocks quantcast code, hit still reg in webserver stats?
mircea_popescu: but whenever reddit or whoever pours in, there's a huge upsurge in traffic visible for quantcast.
mircea_popescu: funny enoughy, awstats doesn't see the same sort of jumps
cazalla: not bad considering i was drunk at the time, just ask BingoBoingo
thestringpuller: to quote "I came for the bunny" so you should actually be thanking cazalla 's bunny
mircea_popescu: larger than the previous peak.
mircea_popescu: the way this guy cuts down on all the dumb idlers that imagine whatever, b-a is just another channel, can autopilot in is so fucking great srlsy.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller internet derp being what he imagines is sarcastic.
mircea_popescu: every social reject from every mechanism and circumstance has the same future in viral marketing.
mircea_popescu: "and was later verified by media (with permission from the authorities)"
cazalla: srs though, can't be that dedicated to the cause if he didn't even have his own flag
cazalla: well, you were right about the landwhales lol http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=32f_1418647768
cazalla: he won't talk to em, not a chance, heads are gonna roll either way by looks of it
mircea_popescu: his case is unexceptional. obama couldn't argue why the usg should even exist either.
mircea_popescu: so is the statal bureaucrat going to break down and actually *GASP* talk to someone outside of the venues the state controls ?
cazalla: shit is heating up here, media won't show the videos from IS
davout: try to get cloaked from webchat, at first it works, but then some freenode bot instantly removes it
davout: since the cloaking doesn't work
davout: you can not infer what the matching engine has seen from an order book query
adlai: where you can have an order placed/cancelled message processed by the API server, but a subsequent order book query shows that the order matcher hasn't yet seen the order
adlai: bitfinex seems to have the same kind of uncertainty as mpex
davout: well, actually it's the cloak that doesn't actually work with webchat
davout: the ddos on connect thing seems to still be going on
assbot: Gambling Online: The Dollar is SO Much Better Than Bitcoin - The Coinion ... ( http://bit.ly/12STgJI )
fluffypony: why would you not just use curl to send the RPC commands?
BingoBoingo: Any updates from down under on their brush with IStralia?
ben_vulpes: more accurately, the roboturrets don't miss.
ben_vulpes: at least in these parts "cross me and get shot".
BingoBoingo: What voltage does the fence have?
ben_vulpes: and the message it sends?
ben_vulpes: how does a fence mark the land as belonging to any particular man?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: not so much the custom of rings being a mystery, but how it marks the territory as being yours in particular, to the naked eye
asciilifeform recalls one of the folks at mircea_popescu's party having collar
ben_vulpes: "a collar by any other name..."
asciilifeform: rings bring mutilation and death to the chemical, electrical, mechanical experimenter.
asciilifeform: see the 'provenance' discussion.
asciilifeform: to 'devil's advocate' - driving the car off the lot turns it into another class of machine entirely.
ben_vulpes: first one'd have to pay more than the gold is worth
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes was speaking of the well-known fact that a new car in usa loses around a fifth of its market value when driven off the merchant lot
ben_vulpes: <thestringpuller> I had a coworker who bought a car, and is still underwater on the loan. It's like "really"? << when are car loans not ever underwater?
fluffypony: whatever will they think of next
assbot: Logged on 22-10-2014 00:43:32; ben_vulpes: can we start counting in years since the first coinbase yet?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know ad is from the birth of christ
ben_vulpes: frequently deservedly, but nevertheless.
ben_vulpes: leastaways i've yet to see that work out for anyone. more often than not hiring leadership is a cover for the sharks to move in and kick founding teams out.
mircea_popescu: brilliant idea otherwise.
ben_vulpes: <thestringpuller> instead he says, "You people don't know how this works" in reference to criticism of his poor decision making process. << thestringpuller clearly doesn't understand how the world works
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Have some sort of windows install for crapware. Maybe not for archeological purposes, but everyone with a Windows box seems to use it for the purpose of running crapware. They just aren't usually aware of it.
ben_vulpes: <BingoBoingo> It would be interesting if a large portion of humanity couldn't make it to the year 300 because even the corn became diabetic. << counting from what now?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ransomware article << funny thing, i have plenty of windows boxen, emulators, vm, etc. they are used for the purpose for which they work best: running crapware.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi what they're so excited about, at 3am
mircea_popescu: there's like... people on top of people on top of buses.
mircea_popescu: soo... argentines are about to set fire to the town AGAIN
badon: So, the government started doing other things to encourage farmers to farm without making them fear losing their livelihood if they have a bad crop or experience a depression.
badon: "bought the farm" became a euphemism for death after farmland seizures by the government and banks during the USA's Great Depression. The seizures led to food price increases and starvation. When the government tried to undo the damage they caused by reselling the farms, no one wanted to buy them.
decimation: my understanding is that the price of agricultural land has been rising due to the influx of wall st. money
decimation: yeah "bought the farm" is generally an aviation expression
BingoBoingo: "bought the farm" I mean maybe I've heard it, but it isn't too common
BingoBoingo: I haven't heard it and I'm in the US surrounded by farms
badon: There is no such thing as private land ownership in jurisdictions that tax ownership of land.
decimation: BingoBoingo: and of course the farmers are paid by usg to farm or not
BingoBoingo: To the people who farm on it.
badon: hi thestringpuller
decimation: at least in london you can 'lease' an estate from the crown for 1000 years, not 50
decimation: it's pretty common in most lefty urban areas of the us to pay >2% per year in 'property tax'
BingoBoingo: If only because they can't borrow atm
mircea_popescu: "so why did i pay money then ?!"
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller it can't really not be.
decimation: http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/09/04/it-only-takes-10400-to-be-richer-than-most-millennials/ << "It only takes $10,400 to be wealthier than half of millennials (the median) but it takes $75,500 to be richer than millennials on average." lol
thestringpuller: that is if your wealth is "invested" in the stockmarket
mircea_popescu: i doubt anyone whosoever has positive net worth in the us if the stock market goes to its natural level and the bonds turn to the dust they are.
decimation: I wonder how many under-35s in the us actually have a positive net worth?
thestringpuller: I had a coworker who bought a car, and is still underwater on the loan. It's like "really"?