asciilifeform: 'Any more information on this? The fact that he is secretly building 10k nodes on a network with 7k active nodes and dropping is a concern in itself and makes me want to support Gavin's hardfork even more so.'
asciilifeform was never able to read the phorum for more than a few min. at a stretch
decimation: I like that line, because it summarizes the activity of about 90% of the american 'security state'
decimation: lolz "Implicit in the the nature of the location an the assertion of the police station being a "safe space" for conducting commerce is that this location open 24 hours a day and 7 days per week is under constant surveillance." << http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2015#979013
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 05:39:06; asciilifeform: likewise, the orphans thing is an easy ddos vector
cazalla: wow, they fkn locked the fork off thread because hey.. can't have actual blocksize increase discussion can you.. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=919629.0
BingoBoingo: davout: How is the new Qntra mobile experience?
mircea_popescu: is she the short sweet ass ?
hanbot: friendly reminder to not go to the library horny: http://www.inquisitr.com/1802797/kendra-sunderland-admits-to-filming-library-sex-video/
mircea_popescu: this ensures that trying to ram-dos the node would require as many different nodes as a fifth of the total number of blocks it can hold.
mircea_popescu: something simple like, "whenever a parentless block is handed over the retaining of which would cause memory pool for holding parentless blocks to be overrun, a) drop the handed block ; b) close the connection and ban that peer for half hour ; c) discard all chains of parentless blocks longer than six items ; d) connect again"
ben_vulpes: it's almost as though the satoshi codebase were a projection of software that knows how to talk to the one! true! bitcoin protocol.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well actually, the thing could just look at how much memory it can allocate and then never outpace it.
mircea_popescu: but... "the community"
ben_vulpes: a coherent vision of how all of the parts interact, the emergent behaviors of the system and a robustish bit of software that can make sense of the system.
ben_vulpes: someone *designed* each and every mechanism to work together.
ben_vulpes: a thing i learned about engineering when i was...oh, six...was that the steam engine doesn't just work because doodz sat and tweaked at it until everything went around just rightly.
ben_vulpes: anyways, the parallels between how bitcoind only accidentally works and misc odd behaviors of this ancient floppy plastic toolbox are very apparent to me at precisely this moment.
ben_vulpes: there's an interesting configuration of the trays where the center of gravity of the top tray is balances the CoG of the bottom tray. this requires torquing the whole assembly such that the CoG's go in a funny place.
asciilifeform has one of these
ben_vulpes: toolbox on the table has a top tray and a bottom tray, connected by parallel braces, mounted at identically-spaced points on both trays. trays move on an arc defined by mechanisms constraints.
asciilifeform: even if for some peculiar reason it were not possible to reduce consumption, the thing ought to know when about to be killed - and shoot itself in the head with some decorum, rather than wait
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> the logical thing to do, for it, would be to jettison the entire orphanage if approaching the hard limit << this may be a good idea, if actually something's needed.
mircea_popescu: o nm i read the 11th as a month
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes et al: happen to remember what block height was at the time 0.5.3 was current? if this is in the log, i have utterly failed to find it
asciilifeform: ^ also happens to explain the memory thing
asciilifeform hoists jolly roger: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-January/000038.html
hanbot: for the record, i deeply enjoyed the sedition discussion. i vote for asciilifeform as most likely to sedite.
asciilifeform: not in the experimental 'orphanage burner' build
asciilifeform: who the hell writes a program as hungry as this, that is entirely unaware of its own resource consumption and lacks any feedback mechanism ?
asciilifeform: the logical thing to do, for it, would be to jettison the entire orphanage if approaching the hard limit
asciilifeform: i remember the dude from ro
mircea_popescu: if oyu carefully read the log, you'll see a couple explicitly exposed tho.
asciilifeform still thinks we get the discount-shelf infiltrators here
mircea_popescu: We are determined to meet these threats through infiltration, disruption, and dismantling of organizations which seek to challenge the legitimacy of our democratic form of government. << this part is the funniest, incidentally, considering the APPALLING record of usg agents trying to infiltrate a god damnd public channel so far.
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask midnightmagic!~midnightm@unaffiliated/midnightmagic. Trust relationship from user trinque to user midnightmagic: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=trinque&dest=midnightmagic | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=midnightmagic | Rated since: Mon Mar 7 15:45:54 2011
asciilifeform: just the right candidate for 'death ray'
asciilifeform: ge the legitimacy of our democratic form of government.
asciilifeform: Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism. While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country. We are determined to meet these threats through infiltration, disruption, and dismantling of organizations which seek to challen
assbot: Bernard von NotHaus: The 'Domestic Terrorist' You Can Call a Hero ... ( http://bit.ly/1KfjTYb )
asciilifeform: http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/bernard-von-nothaus-the-domestic-terrorist-you-can-call-a-hero/2013/09/11
mircea_popescu: so therefore...
trinque: anyone else from the US want to piss himself publically?
mircea_popescu: the above being also an interesting consideration for they who wish to argue "the libertards are in charge". pls start from that and let me hear the logic.
asciilifeform: these - apparently - are specifically (inverse?)extraterritorial
mircea_popescu: "The federal government has never won a sedition case against militia-types, white supremacists, or neo-Nazis. Since World War I, they have won numerous seditious conspiracy cases against Puerto Rican independentistas, communists and others on the left, but no one on the radical right has ever been convicted of plotting to overthrow by force of arms the government of the United States."
mircea_popescu: ossess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both."
mircea_popescu: 18 U.S.C. § 2384 "If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or p
asciilifeform: 'erryday a new reason to not want to be an usian' >>>>> 'every day a new reason not to want to be dragged behind a truck until nothing remains on the rope but a flap of skin'
asciilifeform: they may have been an unsuccessful 'death ray' gambit.
mircea_popescu: On March 28, 2010, nine members of the Hutaree militia were arrested and charged with crimes including seditious conspiracy.
mircea_popescu: Ms. Berg was represented by the ACLU. Charges were dropped in 2006.
mircea_popescu: Laura Berg, a nurse at a U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs hospital in New Mexico was investigated for sedition in September 2005 after writing a letter to the editor of a local newspaper, accusing several national leaders of criminal negligence. Though their action was later deemed unwarranted by the director of Veteran Affairs, local human resources personnel took it upon themselves to request an FBI investigation.
trinque: midnightmagic: what in the fuck treason do you think you've committed by being within earshot of a discussion of history
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic im sure the usg thinks it can do anything it pleases.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "he bitchslapped the officer with a large print version of the complete tax code"
asciilifeform: (as per the barrett brown sentence)
asciilifeform: at least we can take copies of 'declaration of independence' (the u.s. one, not mircea_popescu's...) to jail now
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: I'm not surprised by that sort of record. :( Their prison population is a disgrace to humanity.
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic you have to excuse me, i come from a jurisdiction where sedition is considered the right and proper attitude of the citizen.
gribble: Treason doth never prosper, what's the reason? For if it prosper ...: <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/j/johnharing173129.html>; Treason - Wikiquote: <http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Treason>; John Harington (inventor) - Wikiquote: <http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Harington_(inventor)>
asciilifeform: ;;google treason never prospers for the reason
mircea_popescu: outside prison." López Rivera is said to be "among the longest held political prisoners in the history of Puerto Rico and in the world." He has been jailed for 33 years, 8 months and 1 day.
mircea_popescu: In 1981, Oscar López Rivera, a Puerto Rican Nationalist and Vietnam war veteran, was convicted and sentenced to 70 years in prison for seditious conspiracy and various other offenses. He was among the 16 Puerto Rican nationalists offered conditional clemency by U.S. President Bill Clinton in 1999, but he rejected the offer. His sister, Zenaida López, said he refused the offer because on parole, he would be in "prison
asciilifeform: that's the thing with sucking state cock, it's infinitely long
ben_vulpes: including not calling the funny stuff funny
mircea_popescu: oh there's that.
trinque: pretty sure the round of patriot legislation covered everything
mircea_popescu: i would like to learn more about how one can make money by renting out the space inside his nose.
asciilifeform: hey kakobrekla, can we have a '! oath <argument>' - returns 'plotting or fomenting the physical murder of <argument> is sedition, insurrection, and various related crimes and there's no fucking way I'm interested in being associated with it just because I'm lurking in here.'
mircea_popescu: i am in favour of deposing any kim, just as long as a) it's done violently and b) not by the us.
ben_vulpes: solar troughs don't build themselves.
mircea_popescu: possibly also not the right gender.
asciilifeform notes for the record (tm) that he is not in favour of deposing glorious fuhrer kim jong un, as that would be criminal, seditious, murderous, immoral...
mircea_popescu: basically, he's not the right age to run away from home with you vulpes.
ben_vulpes: you could be the first! best!
ben_vulpes: like the first time anyone's ever done so!
ben_vulpes: HEY GUISE IM STRONGLY SOMETHING OR OTHER
midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: As opposed to what? Pandering to the likes of you?
ben_vulpes: i'm just amused at the presentation
ben_vulpes: <midnightmagic> uh. just for the record << lol what inspired this insipid bit of authority pandering?
asciilifeform: presently the corvee labour is proxy, through taxation and debasement
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> not trying to argue that usg will somehow transmogrify into inca empire when it 'needs to' << ballas is fundamentally (if perhaps unaware-ly) arguing that it already has. that's where his numerous psychanalisis pieces on the public mindset converge.
mircea_popescu: and i will be there to piss on its grave.
mircea_popescu: the only point not in contention : it will die.
mircea_popescu: so... yes. for as long as the usg is willing to die peacefully, it will die peacefully. and if it wishes to try and make a break for it, all the same, it will die bloodily.
mircea_popescu: <midnightmagic> financial starvation of classic authority structures is the primary reason I am interested in bitcoin: because it allows us to do so without shedding a drop of their blood. << this is a good principle. however, people starve best if they are surrounded by barbed wire manned by other people firmly decided to escalate force to any degree.
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic i added it to the bash for you. once jurov or some mod gets around to looking at it it may even show up
asciilifeform: midnightmagic: 4 times is probably enough for the nsa tape
midnightmagic: so. no offence, I'm pretty sure you guys aren't actually real seditionists, but I wanted to be on the record about what I think about violence.
decimation: he was the guy who wrote a filesytem; murdered his mail order bridge later
midnightmagic: dude. seriously plotting or fomenting the physical murder of the USG is sedition, insurrection, and various related crimes and there's no fucking way I'm interested in being associated with it just because I'm lurking in here.
decimation: asciilifeform: "nationalism" strikes me as the wrong word here
asciilifeform: who did not (afaik) make use of money, but had extensive system of slave labour (corvee labour, technically, form of taxation) and the closest thing to a totalitarian state they could pull off under their tech level
asciilifeform: particularly relevant here is that of the inca
asciilifeform: midnightmagic: if you're actually expecting to 'starve' the state by using bitcoin, you may end up somewhat disappointed. it lives on flesh, not money.
asciilifeform: ^ for reasons described in the 'last psychiatrist' essay linked to by mircea_popescu.
midnightmagic: financial starvation of classic authority structures is the primary reason I am interested in bitcoin: because it allows us to do so without shedding a drop of their blood.
asciilifeform: 'if you saw a man drowning, and had the choice between saving him and taking a photo, what aperture and exposure settings would you use ?'
midnightmagic: fair game if it's a peaceful choice on the part of people.
midnightmagic: uh. just for the record, I strongly disagree with plotting the violent overthrow of the USG. I do not, have not, will not, and would not even in the face of violent coercion, consider the use of violent and/or lethal force as a vehicle of governmental change. I am not a seditionist.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: there may be an experimental driver.
asciilifeform: if it fails, then, 'thought crime'
asciilifeform: the easiest, most often reached-for weapon is 'this never happened'
ben_vulpes: satoshi the thought-criminal.
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2015 01:09:34; asciilifeform: 'Every nationalist is haunted by the belief that the past can be altered. He spends part of his time in a fantasy world in which things happen as they should in which, for example, the Spanish Armada was a success or the Russian Revolution was crushed in 1918 and he will transfer fragments of this world to the history books whenever possible. Much of the propagandist writing of our time amounts to
asciilifeform: the 'plea bargain' thing works by demonstrative public floggings like this
assbot: The Murder Book : Hans Reiser: former genius, convicted murderer and future mad scientist? ... ( http://bit.ly/1HuBiQp )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://web.archive.org/web/20110125101820/tacomaconfidential.typepad.com/the_murder_book_2008/2010/10/hans-reiser-former-genius-convicted-murderer-and-future-mad-scientist.html << criminal justice mega-lulzmine
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for danielpbarron from 1 to 2 with note: He's sort of like an apostle.
assbot: You rated user danielpbarron on 29-Jul-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: Works at spreading teh words..
mircea_popescu: you wouldn't have known there's such a thing as "french partisans" if there wasn't a 1945, either)
mircea_popescu: the tide, and suddenly all sorts of disparate and previously doomed forces are now converging.
mircea_popescu: (but to anyone not quite seeing the world for what it is : yes we are at war, and yes the year is about 1944, and yes the fucking nazis are running the fucking concentration camps and invaded russia and so on and so forth. you had no idera about it, but similarly you had no idea about it in 1944. the only reason this is being an issue is because the introduction of the bitcoin tank/bomber/submarine is massively turning
mircea_popescu: what was the hands-down, no question asked, no doubt possible dominant party and c ultural force of the 1930s ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and how well that worked for the nationalists is evident everwhere around us!
mircea_popescu: davout how do you know what the top is ?
davout: you'd kinda notice it quickly too if every other node you ask about this (N-1) block tells you to gtfo
davout: asciilifeform: yeah, there's that but unless you're maliciously partitioned away from the legit network it wouldn't be trivial to fool you
davout: see a bunch of nodes sorta agreeing on the same chain tip, take it, work backwards to genesis block easily since you can easily fetch previous block, once done verify chain and get back to usual bzns
davout: i'm kinda hesitating between genius and braindamaged for the following idea: what if the chain gets synced backwards from the top?
asciilifeform: al facts are suppressed, dates altered, quotations removed from their context and doctored so as to change their meaning. Events which it is felt ought not to have happened are left unmentioned and ultimately denied.' (orwell/nationalism)
asciilifeform: 'Every nationalist is haunted by the belief that the past can be altered. He spends part of his time in a fantasy world in which things happen as they should in which, for example, the Spanish Armada was a success or the Russian Revolution was crushed in 1918 and he will transfer fragments of this world to the history books whenever possible. Much of the propagandist writing of our time amounts to plain forgery. Materi
davout: on an other topic, wrt to pogo plug chain sync
mircea_popescu: by washington agreeing with reddit that they did!
mircea_popescu: do you know how "the sanctions" destroyed putin ?
mircea_popescu: a bunch of derps in beirut getting together and agreeing to have bombed new york is how new york will have been bombed.
davout: they're called difficulty futures goddammit
assbot: The real reason Ryan Charles was fired from reddit: he spent the entire duration of his employment working on a port of bitcoin core to Javascript. : Buttcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1vhOTp9 )
ben_vulpes: http://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/2u7ddq/the_real_reason_ryan_charles_was_fired_from/
mircea_popescu: []wonderkindel 5 points 8 days ago Gavin sees a major shitstorm ahead, does not know of any way out, but hopes that cartels of honest miners will materialize to keep the dream wet.
mircea_popescu: ahh, i recall the age of the romanian pond, when a bunch of retarded ~romanians~ similarly entertained delusions of, you know, we will HURT THIS GUY!!111
mircea_popescu: othar efforts in the same vein.
assbot: dgerard comments on The Emperor is Buttnaked (BTC block size discussion with Gavin) ... ( http://bit.ly/1vhO67K )
mircea_popescu: http://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/2t7k6w/the_emperor_is_buttnaked_btc_block_size/cnx2cor
assbot: Link without improving "their" search engine position | donotlink.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1yOk0U1 )
mircea_popescu: the last one.
mircea_popescu: so i just re-read this article, it's getting to the point where i manage to piss MYSELF off.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes trinque well have you looked at the sort of shit he outputs ?
ben_vulpes: it's actually a manual walking of the shop wot
trinque: asciilifeform: the fuck; you never do peer code review?
trinque: ben_vulpes: it just occurred to me that perhaps the group could somehow quantify their mutual perception of who has contributed?
asciilifeform: 'On the cruelty of really teaching computing science' (dijkstra)
assbot: Page not found | Computer Science Department The University of Texas at Austin ... ( http://bit.ly/1vhLve1 )
ben_vulpes: i'm apparently in the unique situation of reading through all code that gets produced in my shop and having more or less everyone's eyes on everyone's product.
mircea_popescu: i dunno if you like balzac much, but the only reason the fat lazy fuck exists as a writer is because he had to pay his eternal debts and the newspapers paid by the line.
asciilifeform: code, but today I am less interested in how foolish a unit it is from even a pure business point of view. My point today is that, if we wish to count lines of code, we should not regard them as "lines produced" but as "lines spent": the current conventional wisdom is so foolish as to book that count on the wrong side of the ledger.'
asciilifeform: 'The practice is pervaded by the reassuring illusion that programs are just devices like any others, the only difference admitted being that their manufacture might require a new type of craftsmen, viz. programmers. From there it is only a small step to measuring "programmer productivity" in terms of "number of lines of code produced per month". This is a very costly measuring unit because it encourages the writing of insipid
asciilifeform: you have to live with... the code. afterwards.
asciilifeform: 'weight' is the killer
trinque: the incoherence of it all sets off instinctual rage that if nothing else keeps me hammering away at the wall
asciilifeform: time is the less immediately-suicidal variant - all you end up with is a clock-watcher and a lighter wallet
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo yeah, you're right. qntra was a bold step into the darkness, perhaps too bold. trying it with coding is taking a bold ~train trip~ into the wilderness. << Well with Qntra and prose having editorial controls helps to level the problem. I can not imagine a similar arbiter existing for code.
asciilifeform: (the notion was once taken to extremes in that country)
asciilifeform: pay for quantity or time is how the fabled 'indian coder' came about.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yeah, you're right. qntra was a bold step into the darkness, perhaps too bold. trying it with coding is taking a bold ~train trip~ into the wilderness.
mircea_popescu: trinque yes, capitalism does not work in the hands of idiots.
trinque: seems dangerous to give stock at all then, if there's anything at all on the books about "fairness" to whoever
trinque: well presumably I own the fucking thing, at least in my own delusion
mircea_popescu: "everyone must get the same"
trinque wonders if there are rules on "fairness" in regards to giving employees stock
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what do your men do, the profit from which is at all proportional to the time spent? << this is a well pointed question. it'd seem your business is ass-backwardss : people do the job of computers, and i guess computers do the job of people ?!
mircea_popescu: jurov kinda what they do already no ?
mircea_popescu: qntra works very well, at least so far, because everyone's work is fundamentally public, there's no meaning in "writing words' outside of obviously others reading them. so trying to thin out the product as it were is painfully visible and liable to cost whoever does it more than it's worth.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: i've been batting around the notion of a qntra-style stock pool, where stock in the operation would be issued in direct proportion to hours clocked on the project. << risky if it ends up promoting clockpainting.
mircea_popescu: anyone want the clearly very valuable oyvey.eu domain ?
assbot: The Linux Mint Blog » Blog Archive » Introducing the MintBox Mini ... ( http://bit.ly/18Cxltn )
mats: can you feel ma love from over the tubes?
asciilifeform: would be more economical to simply chop the connection
davout: jurov: "now that is something. if i secretly make 350k alternative blocks with minimal difficulty, will that altchain get chosen if we have no checkpoints?" <<< i don't think so. if you have 8 peers you'll get two different blocks at different diff for the same height, hard to feed you a bogus chain
jurov: (just spur if the moment idea)
jurov: then producing fake blocks is.. well dificult
davout: being able to request blox from peers for a certain height would solve the whole thing instantly
asciilifeform: if the memory footprint can actually be limited, the smaller machine can perhaps be allowed to swap to disk.
jurov: and does the std limit of 750 help with oom after all?
kakobrekla: now, this is just a one time inconvenience, but say everyone would change all the time. nicht gut.
kakobrekla: but say you rated undata at some point, and then he changes nick to pirateat40 and you will wtf next time you check your ratings
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 16:49:48; kakobrekla: the thing with the phone was, when you were sending sms you had to type in the destination phone number from your head, no way to use saved entries.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: that was sorta the plan in 'gossip'
ben_vulpes: so long as the fp doesn't change how does that matter?
kakobrekla: i know changing names is not a good practice, but perhaps for the sake of sync we could allow to update your name once (given properly signed request from adequate gpg key)
cazalla: guess i gots to make another symlink in my mind much in the same way i made one for bitcoinpete
trinque: cazalla: this was always my otc handle, and hence the name that made it into assbot
cazalla: why the name change trinque?
asciilifeform: (*in the archive)
asciilifeform: it's in there, somewhere.
ben_vulpes: we have relationships with our clients, get to know their business and make a nominal difference in how they do it.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: we definitely diverge from the original topic significantly here, but "community" and "belongingness" is a core part of what we do.
asciilifeform: nd Free Software are proofs that computers are alienating in the old Marxist sense and the Open Source and Free Software projects are reactions to this sense of alienation, in order to make the person stand out from the computerized nothingness.'
asciilifeform: 'Let's put it another way: Money will _not_ get you any Open Source or Free Software. People create software like this because they want to, _not_ because they get paid. Money is a basically a _detractor_ for creative people who want others to use their software and through that become personally visible. It is pretty sad, but money does not offer visibility to someone who is begging for others to notice him. Open Source a
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3134574475962391@naggum.no.html << one bit. there was more, somewhere
ben_vulpes: there's another side to that as well, which is that the people with whom I work who do things at the 2x-3x range of the others actually enjoy teaching juniors and collaborating on these projects.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: their value delivered goes up disproportionately to their wage hikes << naggum wrote at some length on this subject
ben_vulpes: a bit of economics: in training those people, their value delivered goes up disproportionately to their wage hikes.
mats: the mystery continues.
ben_vulpes: in our snowflake of a case, that's more due to the difference between people who've seen things like the bug under the microscope before, and people who've yet to learn the myriad of tools and mental models to cope effectively.
cazalla: mircea_popescu: cazalla: well that was short lived.. "you have been banned from posting to /r/Buttcoin" << what sort of low quality shilling have you been engaging in! <<< i criticised the jews :\
cazalla: nubbins`: is there anyone here who hasn't made the local news for threatening people? o.O <<< i made TV too because what else happens in the sticks, thankfully minor at the time.. all this shit because i said i was gonna machine gun a bunch of people
asciilifeform: even for straight reverse-engineering, there are order-of-magnitude variations in the amount different folks have to read to grasp the problem
ben_vulpes: but what about the project whose maintainer has ghosted themselves off to the next interesting thing?
cazalla: nubbins`: cazalla tell us more about your web of hate <<< some kid printed out ICQ chatlogs that he was not even involved in and took them to the police
ben_vulpes: someone must foot the bill for that.
ben_vulpes: the source must be read, neh?
asciilifeform finds the above ^ a bit confusing but may be out of depth
ben_vulpes: but someone must invest the capital to justify loading it into a team's shared understanding.
asciilifeform: civilian - will be reading the horror for weeks
asciilifeform: especially there, this ought to be true ?
asciilifeform: the most valuable contractor is the one who magicks away the problem in seconds and then gets out of yer face
asciilifeform: hourly billing, esp. for engineering, always seemed like the worst possible incentive to me
ben_vulpes: this allows the man who only cares to work for 15 hours per week to do so, comfortably, provided he's good at what he does.
ben_vulpes: some read and do (the correct thing) very quickly, and are remunerated in proportion to their time spent and speed at which they do it.
asciilifeform: the latter is called 'which screw'
ben_vulpes: the fella who thinks for twice as long is generally not paid nearly what the one who can see it instantly.
asciilifeform: am i the only one who thinks this is odd
asciilifeform: and the fella who has to think for two hours to come up with xxxx, should be paid 2x the pay of the 1h one ?
ben_vulpes: others: read, think, occasionally produce a UI layout.
asciilifeform: iirc there was programming involved?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what do your men do, the profit from which is at all proportional to the time spent?
ben_vulpes: everything we touch gets the shit automated out of it as a precondition of touching it.
ben_vulpes: i don't quite know if this is topologically different from an option pool with a vesting schedule, except that it provides some fairness proportionality to the time worked
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: why not by the pound ?
ben_vulpes: i've been batting around the notion of a qntra-style stock pool, where stock in the operation would be issued in direct proportion to hours clocked on the project.
ben_vulpes: as an aside, the whole vesting thing is odd.