decimation: so you gotta wonder how long it took the guy to dick around with his winblows cad software to create a bracket
decimation: will repay itself though the continuous printing of thingies."
decimation: lol "An owner of a 3D printer recently told me that "having one really exposes the impotence of… not having one. For instance, I needed this little thingie to hold a shelf. Took 30 minutes to design and print. And where would I get it otherwise?!" The answer, of course, is "at a nearby store" where they have a box full of these thingies at about 20 cents apiece. Of course, in a couple thousand years, his investment in the 3D printer
decimation: where's my farmville subsidies? has congress passed the farmville bill yet?
asciilifeform: ^ 'does not know how world works.' everybody knows that 'shortage' in usg parlance means 'not readily available at the centrally planned price'
asciilifeform: 'If there's a shortage of programmers, we could pay programmers more money.'
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> where'd ya get the O2 O3 combo << shlomiel moment
asciilifeform: where'd ya get the O2 O3 combo
asciilifeform: i think i actually put in the std=
assbot: New agency to sniff out threats in cyberspace - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1zVlq4m )
decimation: ^ this might actually be qntra worthy if someone puts the right spin on it
assbot: Elizabeth Warren Won't Back Rand Paul's Audit the Fed Bill - Hit & Run : Reason.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1zVjPLH )
decimation: more lolz http://reason.com/blog/2015/02/11/elizabeth-warren-wont-back-rand-pauls-au < "Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D., Mass.), a member of the Banking Committee and an outspoken critic of the Fed’s oversight of big banks, said she does not support Mr. Paul’s proposed legislation [to force a complete audit of the fed], which she said could have “dangerous” implications for monetary policy."
asciilifeform: if you sit and think for a minute about how the memory works, it becomes clear why.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: but on all machines you're likely to meet, there is at the very least a performance penalty for them
ben_vulpes: all these old names popping up.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: x86 is actually among the more lenient architectures for 'unaligned access'
asciilifeform: if prison cells had kitchenettes - i'm quite certain they would.
assbot: Logged on 15-02-2015 02:25:58; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: realize that the obscene memhunger is 99+% bastard blocks
trinque watches atop -d... what the hell is btcd reading at a sustained 4mb/sec
ben_vulpes: looks bad for the back.
trinque: ben_vulpes: dual boot the gentoos
ben_vulpes: decimation: i've wasted 3 days over the past two weeks trying to get a modern browser to boot into x11 for os x.
decimation: turns out gcc4.9 would not link properly with the osx standard c++ library
trinque: I switced the deedbot blockchain to an ssd ebs volume
ben_vulpes: they're not real keys, as far as i care.
ben_vulpes: the apple binary signing process is hilaribad.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: other people in the shop use the apple toolchain and the android toolchain. all i ever do with those is "turn the right nut" when it comes to "signing" binaries for apple/google and cutting builds.
ben_vulpes: ruby as necessary to unfuck other people's mistakes.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: contaminate my mind with the c toolchain << if it isn't a secret, what do you normally work with ?
asciilifeform: hence the bash script.
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> use the expected values for your machine. << ahahaha "expected values" ahaha as if
asciilifeform: also realize that the script is not a 'makefile' and will pointlessly repeat heavy work if rerun
ben_vulpes: thanks for the patience, much of this is over my head. but what better way to contaminate my mind with the c toolchain than bitcoind
asciilifeform: use the expected values for your machine.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: aha. in the middle of it already.
mircea_popescu: anyway, in vaguely related news, i'm preparing a pretty lulzy "outrage the feminists" thing for later.
decimation: apparently it's enough for the new york times to get an independent op-ed
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: re portotronic, what's the right thing to do with CROSS_PREFIX for non-arm builds? omit from script entirely?
mircea_popescu: "FINE PROVE IT TO THEM!!111"
decimation: and which new york jew now owns the whole thing?
mircea_popescu: THIS is how these shits "happen".
mircea_popescu: now, the real journo story : how deep a discount did gawker offer on their advertising, who said no, why did they say no.
decimation: than death, did we not know that the human mind seldom arrives at truth upon any subject till it has first reached the extremity of error.”"
decimation: "The movement against public shaming had gained momentum in 1787, when Benjamin Rush, a physician in Philadelphia and a signer of the Declaration of Independence, wrote a paper calling for its demise — the stocks, the pillory, the whipping post, the lot. “Ignominy is universally acknowledged to be a worse punishment than death,” he wrote. “It would seem strange that ignominy should ever have been adopted as a milder punishment
mircea_popescu: but good for the sheeple to find out that okcupid and tinder are owned by the same thing.
decimation: then the author takes the occasion to rail against whippings and pillories from 200 years go
decimation: "It’s possible that Sacco’s fate would have been different had an anonymous tip not led a writer named Sam Biddle to the offending tweet. Biddle was then the editor of Valleywag, Gawker Media’s tech-industry blog. He retweeted it to his 15,000 followers and eventually posted it on Valleywag, accompanied by the headline, “And Now, a Funny Holiday Joke From IAC’s P.R. Boss.”"
decimation: "Sacco boarded the plane. It was an 11-hour flight, so she slept. When the plane landed in Cape Town and was taxiing on the runway, she turned on her phone. Right away, she got a text from someone she hadn’t spoken to since high school: “I’m so sorry to see what’s happening.” Sacco looked at it, baffled."
decimation: She chuckled to herself as she pressed send on this last one, then wandered around Heathrow’s international terminal for half an hour, sporadically checking her phone. No one replied, which didn’t surprise her. She had only 170 Twitter followers."
asciilifeform: it's a dictionary gloss of the engl.
decimation: asciilifeform: what does the ru version say?
asciilifeform: http://www.ivy-style.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/nsa3.jpg << small l0l: the ru example is atrociously off
assbot: The Killer, the Reporter, and the Southern Poverty Law Center - Hit & Run : Reason.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1ACzhNB )
decimation: yeah usually the way the term is used, the 'anarchy' group is associated with privileged classes to whom the law does not practically apply
decimation: ie 'anarchy for those who choose to thumb their nose at the law', tyranny for anyone who desires to comply
asciilifeform: as in, if flying a pilotless machine from washington to new york is punishable with life at hard labour, the cargo may as well be cocaine
asciilifeform: the corollary to the 'first law,' 'not caught not thief' - is 'may as well hang for a sheep as a lamb'
decimation: the whole point of the 'drone license' was that somehow drones would be able to fly farther
decimation: yeah as if people are going to pay usg to fly their 'aircraft' at 500 feet within sight of the operator
asciilifeform: decimation: the actual law, as always, is 'not caught, not thief.'
decimation: in case folks are unfamiliar, usg claims the air on 'your' land starting at 0 feet
decimation: they've been 'working' on these rules for more than 4 years and this is what they come up with? the status quo?
decimation: "Federal regulators plan to propose rules that would limit commercial drone flights to below 500 feet, daytime hours and within sight of the operator, while also requiring operators to pass written exams, according to a federal document posted online Friday."
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: don't take my word for it, either. 'valgrind.'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: realize that the obscene memhunger is 99+% bastard blocks
mod6: (always past the last checkpoint, but usually before 252450)
BingoBoingo: This run with a 4GB process RAM limit it hasn't crashed yet. Just crossed the 512 MB line around block 153000
BingoBoingo: I also killed the block files and block index with my build today to test syncing again. Almost to 16801 again.
BingoBoingo: mod6: Your appearance reminded me to update with the protocol.cpp #includes http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2015/02/14/notes-on-building-bitcoin-qt-on-openbsd/
asciilifeform: i used that little script to build the armv5 bins
asciilifeform: did you find otherwise ?
mircea_popescu: it's mostly the avatar of teenagers that wish to pretend they're adults, and make up their parallel adult world to inhabit.
mircea_popescu: not to mention the entire fucking point of the exercise is for the sub/slave to SUBMIT. not to constantly feed the red herring of "individual self determination"
BingoBoingo: Red is one of the worst imagineable for the purpose. It does nothing to break the context of the situation and fits in too many contexts appropirate to the situation. It's like a trailer park feeding trough using icecream as its safe word to get gluttons to leave.
mircea_popescu: if you handling the cane can't tell when she;s had enough, her with the bruises and marks CERTAINLY can't.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the whole construction's fucking irresponsible. for one thing, the subject's not in any position to evaluate anything. there are specific, well documented, well understood biological mechanisms that prevent a sane evaluation.
mircea_popescu: i think red is by far the widest used.
asciilifeform: but in the corner of the room, a little red-white-and-blue weasel sits and whispers in her ear, 'we can move, remove, all the walls, in exchange for just a trifle'
mircea_popescu: it's unhealthy for said world to just infinitely give way in all directions all the time. at least some of the time she has to come face flat against a stone wall.
mircea_popescu: it's just infantilism. girlie trying to test the limits of her world.
asciilifeform: I have to tell you it felt like an icy dagger being pounded straight into my heart. People tell me Im pretty easy-going and in that situation I believed I proved it. But I really hope there arent too many women who make a habit of this. Because I dont think men are biologically constructed to pass such tests reliably.'
asciilifeform: 'Try this one on for size. A man and woman are together, making out, removing clothes, getting totally naked, engaging in foreplay with both partners active, the woman mounts the man and begins rubbing her stuff on his stuff, without penetration but obviously thats the next step; and then she suddenly says Im uncomfortable doing this, and turns completely cold. Ive experienced this. I respected the No but
mircea_popescu: in other news, http://pervocracy.blogspot.ca/2012/08/the-myth-of-boner-werewolf.html is why "safewords" are utter bs. really, "red" midstride ? not happening.
assbot: <i>Negroes and the Gun</i>: A Winchester “in every Black home” - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1CurHBe )
BingoBoingo: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/01/29/negroes-and-the-gun-a-winchester-in-every-black-home/
decimation: like the soviets, they probably are going to pick the guy who is 'least likely to surrender to the foundation'
asciilifeform: presumably the usg dept. of retardation or whatnot, which phunds the phoundation, cares.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the funniest part is the notion that anyone gives a shit what comes out of it.
decimation: yeah I like the surprisingly reactionary 'election'
hanbot: i guess "unactivated" is the socially acceptable term for nonhuman. and here i thought it was the concept itself that bothered folks.
mircea_popescu: well, whadda they want, bitcoin scam foundation sold lifetime seats and ran out of money. of course it's not gonna honor them
assbot: Bg002h comments on Looks like over 80% of Bitcoin Foundation members are not allowed to vote in the current election - including several candidates & current board members. ... ( http://bit.ly/19iWv0t )
asciilifeform: 'Less than 20% of Bitcoin Foundation members will be eligible to vote due to a new requirement that members "activate" their accounts. Even if they are candidates, current board members, regularly participate in the foundation message boards or are actively involved with the foundation. Even those who just joined within the last month would not be able to vote unless they performed the additional step of "activating" accounts.'
assbot: Looks like over 80% of Bitcoin Foundation members are not allowed to vote in the current election - including several candidates & current board members. : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/19iWbPm )
mircea_popescu: well, i would imagine if they actually aim to be female they'd miss having a cunt more than having a dick.
Bagels7: I never asked but I might assume they miss having a dick
Bagels7: okay so i heard that there are some who lose their sex drive and become some sort of bitter bitch but they must have been the ones that were confused or coherced
mircea_popescu: well, i guess maybe you're better connected in the group than me. i mostly know clinicians.
Bagels7: yes, mainly them i had in mind
Bagels7: how are there no "happy postop transsexuals"
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo also the yen's kinda weak.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
wpalczynski: what are they talking about? how can one share be trading at 185k?
mircea_popescu: note the dates.
mircea_popescu: he can never ruin an uppetite. for even if he ruins one, he has another coming right after!
Bagels7: why the up?
Bagels7: (its on another device)
thestringpuller: Nah its a static graph. And I need to redo one of the algorithms to only list those with L2 trust, a few pop up that shouldn't be there.
joecool: thestringpuller: is that only importing from gribble's wot when a new member joins the -assets wot?
joecool: need to get trust in -assets, i look like the leader of a splinter faction on here http://cookiechief.com/wotviz/ lol
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: re: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-11-2014#922646 << is this why a lot of the US's rockets blew up during "apollo" or what not?
cazalla: thestringpuller, approved, but shouldn't you be working? :P
mod6: There's a lot of moving parts in there, and deps. It's hard to put a finger on what exactly it is, right now. Especially since we are all using slightly different environments. Too many variable.s
mod6: We'll figure it out at somepoint. I think, for now the important thing is that we have a workaround.
mod6: as you just proved, it'll make it past it sometimes, and sometimes not. im sure there is some sort of reason for this, but we dont know what it is at this time.
mod6: thestringpuller: no.
thestringpuller: do you have specific usecase for inducing the wedge?
mod6: aight. so yeah, stay tuned. as soon as I get anything working with static libs and static linking of the output object files from the bitcoin source base, I'll give an update.
thestringpuller: they have sentenced me to writing ruby for slave labor
mod6: it will build all of the necessary things inside of the output binary, instead of leaving that stuff to call out to a seperate place
mod6: for the last 48 hours i've been working on trying to get it to build against static libs.
thestringpuller: what's the benefit of static linking?
mod6: it'll build, it'll build the `bitcoind` binary dyamically linked.
mod6: when statically linking via the makefile.unix that's included with v0.5.3, I can't even get mine to compile correctly. So, I'll be spending a lot of time probably re-writing the entire makefile
mod6: ok thats awesome. although, i think what everyone has been running up to now is a dynamically linked version of the output binary. which shouldn't even be availab.e
thestringpuller: i'll wait until it either hits a wall or gets current.
mod6: thanks for testing. if you put together a pastebin of your findings: `./bitcoind getinfo` `openssl version -a`, etc. that would be helpful for our permutation matrix
mod6: you might be the first to be testing on deb7, not sure.
mod6: and recently, TomServo was able to fully sync the blockchain with config: v0.5.3 + patches + { 1, rm_rf_upnp, 2, 3, 4, 6 & 7 } AND with openssl v0.9.8o
mod6: thestringpuller: np
mod6: If you got past 168,001 without any erros reported in `./bitcoind getinfo` then you should be alright.
mod6: <+thestringpuller> mod6: ben_vulpes it got past the wedge <+thestringpuller> "blocks" : 164713 << looks to me like you just hit a spot where it was slow, maybe a lot of disconnected blocks. this isn't the "wedge" block we were hitting. tx we had issues with (VerifiySignature) was in block 168,001. It's all in the logs.
trinque: kicked it up to a bigger ec2 instance; not exactly a mindboggling increase in the rate of munching blocks
trinque: redid the thing with the bootstrap torrent on the server, and it's on mid december as of now
cazalla: thestringpuller, http://qntra.net/2015/02/new-security-standard-announced-at-devcore/#comment-10413
Adlai: hanging onto cash during times of trouble is rather similar to 'hodl'
Adlai: social, in the sense that you hold fiat because that's what everybody else holds
asciilifeform: unlike almost any other activity
asciilifeform: that the main (if not only) obstacle to holding is a social one << wai, wat?! nobody has to know if you have btc
Adlai: my first 'irl friend' who became a holder has remarked that the main (if not only) obstacle to holding is a social one; so anybody who has been marginalized their entire life (in this case, we were discussing religious minorities, but this equally applies to the 'functionally insane') is automatically more receptive than the mean
asciilifeform: mbers of Americans, both rich and poor, would regard Limonov's behavior as nothing short of despicable: a foreign author living in America on public assistance while also earning cash! It seems reasonable that the rich should feel that way; if the poor can't be made miserable, then what exactly is the point of being rich?'
asciilifeform: in need of some free money but are otherwise perfectly content. Although it is just as possible to be poor and happy in America as anywhere else, here one must make a choice: to avoid any number of unpleasant situations, one must be careful to hide either the fact that one is poor, or the fact that one is happy. If free public money is to be obtained, then only the latter choice remains. It is another curious fact that vast nu
asciilifeform: 'The Russian author Eduard Limonov wrote of his experiences with poverty in America. To his joy, he discovered that he could supplement his cash earnings with public assistance. But he also quickly discovered that he had to keep this joy well hidden when showing up to collect his free money. It is a curious fact that in America public assistance is only made available to the miserable and the downtrodden, not to those who are
asciilifeform: plenty of folks get their daily bread from $sponsor while hating with exquisite hate
asciilifeform: and did i miss some political wank or other? did they have a public impalement of heretics on the washington monument, and i missed this ?
punkman: danielpbarron: why the hardon for you?
asciilifeform: gavinandresen_ has quit (Client Quit) << lol! the real deal?
Adlai: "but the energy, effort and resources which could have been expended on comfortably yielding and productively submitting" << lol
Adlai: think of the sarcasm as a barrier of entry against butthurtion
mircea_popescu: how did you get this idea, that if you don't follow something it's incumbent on me/the school/the world to fix it for you ?
mircea_popescu: the notion that you may participate without understanding is like... well, what all comedy gold is made out of, i guess.
Adlai: world use of the version that doesn't require a change before we talk about making changes - my 2¢
Adlai: benjamindees: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones << money doesn't have to be convenient to be useful, and there are zillions of ways to handle amounts that aren't worth the transaction cost of lugging the whole thing around; some ways are more transparent (like federated sidechains), and others less (like changetip). non-federated sidechains require changing bitcoin itself, so let's see real
mircea_popescu: benjamindees you're completely and utterly misrepresenting the discussion.
benjamindees: I've seen a couple of people say similar things. It seemed natural that if you are for a 1MB limit, you would be for sidechains as an avenue for growth or at least to keep the alts at bay.
Adlai: again, federated sidechains - great idea. you want a ledger with centralized control but accessible to the public, that manipulates btc denominated assets? this is how.
benjamindees: Adlai, I'm wondering what you all think about it. I was under the impression you were for the idea.
Adlai thinks that federated sidechains are a great idea and cointip, bitbase, changepay, whatever they're called - should be using those, if they want transparency
Adlai: benjamindees: wait, let's back up a bit, if not for your then my sake. what's the point of sidechains? i don't think it's "paying for bitcoin mining"
mircea_popescu: what is this, the cartoons ?
mircea_popescu: so your avenue to pay for your starbucks is a) give them some of your money ; b) borrow some money to give them or c) buy another soda ?
benjamindees: "there are two avenues to pay for it." <-- I disagree with this, by the way. The third avenue is to pay for it with more transactions, since the major costs (mining) are fixed.
mircea_popescu: all screws are better than thumbtacks for the man holding a hammer.
mircea_popescu: good article, that, incidentally, in that it plainly discusses in 2013 things people imagine are "about the future" in 2015.
Adlai: note that for the "real bitcoin", this just has the effect of further distinguishing it as such, if the current mess didn't do that well enough
mircea_popescu: Yet another one of them is that consumers revolt, entrepreneurs intervene, before the end of 2015 there's about a thousand to a million different Bitcoin forks, each with its ten million-ish monetary base worth about a dollar, on global average. The size of the inter-Bitcoins market, the complexity and confusion ensuing makes pretty much everything unmanageable for the "ordinary person".
mircea_popescu: basically, to quote the ancient http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoin-prices-bitcoin-inflexibility/ :
Adlai: mircea_popescu: arguably, the main/relevant effect of 'sidechains' to date has been funnelling VC money into subsidizing full nodes... although i guess you don't trust full nodes run by those people... but you don't have to because bitcoin
mircea_popescu: benjamindees http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-02-2015#1013038 << you could start there.
xanthyos: i want no affiliation with mircea_popescu the slave holder
Adlai: benjamindees: i just gave you the shortcut, i believe you misprounounced "thanks"
mircea_popescu: then nobody ain't part of this.
Adlai: no, i feel rather ignorant of them. i understand the technical description in the paper, but haven't given it enough thought to be for or against. i can't speak for other people in this channel.
mircea_popescu: o there's that too. well... it's a fair cop...
mircea_popescu: lmao he got flooded. imagine the rage.
mircea_popescu: well technically this was more in the vein of horrible maiming and dismemberment threats.
Adlai: i mean, if he's asking to get the police involved, don't they love responding to death threats?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
Adlai was just discussing death threats yesterday... they are as effective against humans as they are ineffective against superhumans
assbot: You rated user xanthyos on 08-Oct-2014, with a rating of -5, and supplied these additional notes: met in '04; he depends on government subsidies and will side with the USG in order to maintain his leech lifestyle..
ruin_dpbs_life: mircea_popescu: you do business wiht dpb i'll get the police in volved
mircea_popescu: but in other news, https://flpics2.a.ssl.fastly.net/2066/2066340/00050dbb-17e7-9554-ef52-cc5731d655ac_720.jpg
Adlai: it's an interesting idea, although i must say that - as i understand it without having read the entire paper - it's too deterministic for my tastes. i kinda like the idea of deliberately random behavior.
mircea_popescu: maybe better take it as "this man won't give me for free stuff that people might get if they pay upwards of six figures in fees. my feeble attempts to defeat his defences through 9yo discoursive tactics are probably going to fare about as well as 9yos generally fare against multi million dollar concerns."
Adlai: the actual paper, if anybody is interested in more than a slideshow, is http://view.samurajdata.se/psview.php?id=271992c2&page=1
Adlai: when you designed mpex's 'quantum' matching engine, did you consider proposals of the "frequent batch auction" persuasion? i have no stake in this idea, just collecting opinions on it, as i form my own
mircea_popescu: think "occupywallstreet" or "feminism" or w/e. "the luxor center for businessmen". these collections don't actually do anything, it's not unlike a coral discussing which way to undulate for saving the whales.
mircea_popescu: more like, "saving the environment" is just as silly as any one thing a bunch of useless, stupid and ignorant entities that only exist because nobody ground uncle sam into the ground yet could ever do.
Adlai: the tl;dr is that "saving the environment" is silly because the environment exists with or without its "savers", and that the real meaning behind "saving the environment" is "keeping this environment as hospitable as possible to us"
mircea_popescu: the planet is fine. "the people" are fine. you are stupid, and your friends ridiculous.
Adlai: do you know the source?
mircea_popescu: "the planet is fine, the people are fucked" is what people say when they can't digest the obvious "if you could understand more, you could understand more"
Adlai: it's definitely something else, not "human" - but does it act in its own rational self interest? i'm not sure the concept of "self interest" is meaningful when you're talking about "nature"
mircea_popescu: but review the definitions :)
Adlai: dunno, nature can still matter, even if individual snowflakes in an avalanche or looters in a mob, could be removed without significantly affecting the whole. i choose the mob analogy purposefully, because these effects are rarely (ever?) constructive... construction seems to take either "superhuman" capacity (and effort), or enough time for differential reproductive fitness to do its thing
mircea_popescu: (ie, "can't carry meaning". just like the foregoing it's also logically necessary, no debate possible. it flows from what you're saying, which is essentially "humans are noise". sure. but noise doesn't really matter. like brownian motion.)
Adlai: sure. mattering is like driving skill... most datapoints think they're on the opposite side of the curve
Adlai: so "econs" are these mythical perfectly rational agents, and "humans" are these neurological shitshows full of neuroses and emotions that rarely act rationally. sure, some humans act quite rationally, but they're the exception.
Adlai next cites his dog's vet's tatoo, or at least the one he remembers: "humanity is overrated"
Adlai: i guess we just have different definitions of the word "human". mine is preceded with a huge "only".
mircea_popescu: whereas bitcoin enforces this through the nature of money.
Adlai finds himself again bringing up kahneman, who talks about "humans" vs "econs", the latter describing the rational agents of economic theory, which don't actually exist on this planet
mircea_popescu: the difference is that they enforce this through statal redistribution, which lives out of a hole in public choice theory,
mircea_popescu: is there a rational incentive to continue adding man-hours to women's studies ?
Adlai: i guess it would depend on the profitability, which starts getting outside the scope of bitcoin itself
Adlai: still, i'm not sure that there's a rational incentive to add energy to mining activity once X% of the planet's energy expenditure is dedicated to mining
mircea_popescu: gotta compartimentalize the povs.
Adlai: signing transactions takes a bit of energy, and without fees from signed transactions, there's no point to mining
Adlai suspects; take everything he says with the usual shaker of salt
mircea_popescu: unrelated datapoints. half energy available \being used to mine bitcoin makes bitcoin safe for humans (safe in the sense of, won't be overrun by the altcoin problem)
Adlai: mircea_popescu: _all_ energy, or the delta between current mining energy use, and half the planet's total energy expenditure?
mircea_popescu: i suppose the next step is, "participate in derpland has talent with your tv set!" and hopefully that'll relieve us of most of the current imbeciles online.
mircea_popescu: heh. who even wants these new derpy tvs
mircea_popescu: "energy efficiency" is not a bitcoin consideration. all energy used for non-bitcoin stuff is wasted by definition, in the bitcoin paradigm.
mircea_popescu: there's no way to express bitcoin in fiat terms. it's not "a clock", because the meaning of "a clock" does not carry in bitcoin. yes it divides time, but differently in fundamental ways.