PeterL: if you had one in your pocket instead of in case, would they have been interested by it?
asciilifeform: PeterL: when i went to mircea_popescu's conference-2, had an attache of rng samples, which nobody at any of the borders was interested in so much as opening much less demanding to know how to plug them in
asciilifeform: re: border searches - interestingly, if your cargo doesn't look like consumer electronics, the inspectors tend to ignore it (granted that it doesn't pattern-match 't3rr0r1s7!!!111')
chetty: and I can't type either :/
nubbins`: FWIW canada customs have consistently provided me with the least-pleasant border crossing experiences of any agency
jurov: ^ heh these utorrent forums. "account suspended"
PeterL: does therealbitcoin list have an rss feed?
mod6: i understand. i think the first objective will be to resolve that issue once we get the milestone "release" bundled up.
asciilifeform: i confess that i can't bring myself to run the thing that eats infinite memory, any more
mod6: let me know how it goes. my full-sync test with the static bin is up to height=273236 currently.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: They tend to do that. Amazing though on the other side how over time it takes increasing enticements to get them trapped in the first place.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i drove the hog to the forest & turned it loose there. found it interesting how the beast had to be shaken out of the trap, wouldn't simply leave on its own
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000057.html http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000058.html << congrats mod6
[]bot: Bet placed: 10 BTC for No on "The Winkdex: BTC $5000 or more in 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1104/ Odds: 12(Y):88(N) by coin, 12(Y):88(N) by weight. Total bet: 83.1718 BTC. Current weight: 84,321.
BingoBoingo: Granted it normally takes the better part of a salad to make the cage traps enticing to groundhogs
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> it bloodied its nose against the cage for 20 min. or so, then gave up << They tend to do that. Catch a good number with bad intentions towards the garden that way.
decimation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE1alBZ-qXI < there's a whole youtube genre of X vs. Y animal
asciilifeform: incidentally, i'm rather curious re: how a social animal (rat, wolf) would do in the bottle
asciilifeform: (he was trying to get -in-, for no apparent reason, rather than escape a jar)
asciilifeform: i'm quite unconvinced that the bird did
mircea_popescu: he doesn't understand the implementation details. but the situation, he understands just fine.
asciilifeform: mouse understands glass better than the bird (recall the bird film i posted? also persistent beast, also against glass!)
mircea_popescu: that's the thing. he does, more so than bill gates.
asciilifeform: in that he doesn't have anything like an accurate internal model of his situation, in the bottle
mircea_popescu: it's about not spending your time writing fiction under the pretense of "thinking". the mouse excels at this.
asciilifeform: sure there is. an ant can bite in milliseconds.
mircea_popescu: there's no more sense to be had.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, us had a much better view of the soviets than the soviets, and vice-versa.
mircea_popescu: (some of the latter get it, but rare is that bird).
mircea_popescu: the hoodlums trying to be drug lords in detroit have a lot more sense in this matter than the "business majors" coming out of harvard.
mircea_popescu: and that is, joining the wot early, and helping set the world on fire. it. strictly it.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, there are some classes of optimization problems ~once you're already rich~.
mircea_popescu: if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet.
mircea_popescu: making money is a purely ~political~ function. if you are among the favoured elite of the respublica veneta, you then may invest in the ships, and make a profit. if not, not.
asciilifeform: what - in the actual world people inhabit - *is* a function of it?
mircea_popescu: making money is not a function of one's hard work and dilligence in the schoolhouse sense.
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 22:15:19; asciilifeform: understand, interested here in 'theoretical best' of what a smart person with almost no funding could achieve
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043343 << anyway, this is what triggered the discussion, and to move on to more practical considerations :
mircea_popescu: well... chaitin and torkel should be refered together
asciilifeform: in the general case.
asciilifeform did carefully specify that the 'ideal play' is not actually findable
mircea_popescu: looky here : for as long as you don't aim to use the "shortest program" thing for the purpose of attacking my statement, it is ok.
asciilifeform: for the original line of reasoning, see chaitin.
mircea_popescu: only if they don't include it. once you've included it... you've made it general.
asciilifeform: for trivial example, the shortest program which does nothing at all is ''.
mircea_popescu: but this is the general case.
asciilifeform: is only non-provable in the general case
mircea_popescu: far be it from me to diss fiction - the creation of "proofs" we know from the outset to be false and then their taking apart to examine where they stole our eyes is exactly shakespeare's trade.
mircea_popescu: the mere fact that you have such proof is sufficient proof that it is wrong.
mircea_popescu: for as long as the proof is wrong, yes, it provably exists.
mircea_popescu: what is the correct code gcc approximates as it churns on cygwin ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if waste of time, then what is the correct answer that machine like 'scalpl' is actually approximating when it grinds ?
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, utter waste of time.
mircea_popescu: at its core, the "optimal retrospective investment" problem is a nude and rude proposition to replace the action imperative ("mouse must escape or die in the act of trying") with an imaginary junk. ("it could have been"). this is not substantially different from what the usg does when it invents a new name for the homeless and pretends to have "resolved the problem".
asciilifeform: the 'purpose' thing is just a demented lens for viewing anything
mircea_popescu: now look at it from the fallacious "purpose" perspective.
mircea_popescu: the time direction thing never stopped anyone from thinking "hey, i could have done better!" or be bitter about how things turned out etc.
mircea_popescu: like, the complexity problem guarantees no government will ever succeed. yet who's deterred from "empirebuilding".
mircea_popescu: in any event, all human folly is based on the failure to come to terms and trying to go through the wall.
adlai: When we differ, Charlie usually ends the conversation by saying: “Warren,
mircea_popescu: they are of course related.
mircea_popescu: another is the complexity problem. the simple fact that once the father has said "i know shit", if he opens his mouth enough to say as little as some basic math, he's now wrong.
mircea_popescu: there are a number of hard rules of the world we inhabit, that children take some time to internalize. one is, of course, "move backwards through time" thing. what adolescent did not ponder this, wish it, etc.
mircea_popescu: to put this to intuition : suppose in the alt-universe where your microscopic trade happened, another trader happened to see it and panic.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu doesn't 'believe in' infinitesimals either, does he
mircea_popescu: the moment you start doin this sort of thing it no longer behaves thusly.
mircea_popescu: yes, it does, provided you don't take it out of there.
asciilifeform can see where mircea_popescu is going - 'no clockwork universe' - but a trading engine in sufficiently small time span does behave rather like a clockwork universe
asciilifeform: therefore one or more possible strings would result in max C'
adlai: (log itself, not the channel)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nope. the notion of "optimal" is undefined.
asciilifeform: yet one or more optimal play variants must exist (in the sense the 'optimal' minimax game of chess exists. not in the sense that you could actually play that game or ever see so much as one move of it in life)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for all the major differences between them and us, it occurs to me there's a very painfully obvious stylistical point : b-a.com doesn't have traffic tracking, github.com doesn't let you search.
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 22:12:30; asciilifeform: folks with a clue - comment, would the result have any useful connection with reality ?
mircea_popescu: this takes the fucking cake,
mircea_popescu: n his retirement. Instead he was one of the thousands who got nothing because the incompetent mill management and corrupt union (not to mention the government) raided their pension funds and stole their retirement. All she had was social security to live on."
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller> and enron ruined pensions for everyone << if only. "My neighbor was an elderly retired woman (80+ seemed ancient to me at that age) who was the widowed wife of a retired steel worker. Her husband had worked all his life in the steel mills of central Pennsylvania with promises from big business and the union that, for his 30 years of service, he would have a pension and medical care to look forward to i
asciilifeform: aha, it's like the decision of how many thousand volts to use in electric chair
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 40% or 90% is purely a wordchoice matter, much like the zhim thing. 5%ish is where it matters.
mircea_popescu: PeterL being prepared. there's definitely going to be one.
asciilifeform: https://github.com/search?q=gnatelim&type=Code << who can find anything there which isn't a) word salad or b) part of gcc ?
thestringpuller: "The total amount of United States Currency seized from the stops is: $13,647,160" << they just want new toys
thestringpuller: "The F.I.N.D. Unit has made forty-eight (48) traffic stops that resulted in the detection of bulk cash smugglers."
asciilifeform: wait till they switch from plain static robbery to racket
thestringpuller: so there is new drug unit in west georgia now
asciilifeform: incidentally, you will not necessarily go to jail - but the duffel bag - will.
thestringpuller: US just wants their cut (not like it helps since we are bankrupt)
asciilifeform: laundries are as old as the state itself
decimation: asciilifeform: http://www.zillow.com/blog/rents-up-not-where-you-expect-170427/ < rents in the us are nearly 10% YoY in some cities
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: but, like most folks in my profession, in 'legit' electric bzollarz
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i don't get paid in benjies
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: hey you're the one who can't spend benjies without setting off alarms.
asciilifeform: trinque: know that no one in the ussr needed to pay rent
asciilifeform: trinque: read orlov's 'post-soviet lessons' to learn why the analogy does not apply
asciilifeform: (what passes for money in this part of the world)
asciilifeform: these get paid in money
asciilifeform: neh, sorta the opposite
decimation: the 'value' forward p/e was 30!
decimation: I was just looking at the 'mid-cap value' fund from vanguard
decimation: asciilifeform: that's not even counting the fact that usd in your 'savings' account is continually thieved
decimation: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2015/01/greg_page_on_fo.html > "And there have always been voices to let market signals determine how farmers planted their crops. Don't make people grow cotton just to maintain their base acres in the cotton program, when the world is crying out for more soybeans to feed itself."
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: what country << generally, the 'orc world' where laws aren't actually enforced unless you piss people off
thestringpuller: the funny thing is
decimation: moldbug has a post about why central banks spend most of their time trying to figure out how to not move the market
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you will remember we're discussing markets here. the phenomenon of alleged "prices" in a situation where the government is the largest economic actor is laughable anyway.
asciilifeform is not aware of any successful instances of 'moving market', other than brute affairs like buterin's waterfall or the earlier and better-known gold price suppression scheme
adlai: i'm not sure the constructive uses of friction have any parallel either... beyond maybe as a cost of manipulation (when you don't control the tape)
mircea_popescu: that is the EXACT feeling it evokes in financeheads.
mircea_popescu: "how the fuck am i supposed to do any scioence in here!111"
asciilifeform: but what if the lab is not a lab, but a bomb whose entire purpose is to trigger earthquake
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm sure the denizens liked it also. but as al said, 'first ecstasy, then laundry.' we're living with the results of '90s sv.
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 22:07:20; danielpbarron: asciilifeform's got a good point though, with such little amounts you aren't going to move the market -- might as well just pretend trade in a txt file
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043311 << "moving the market", in professional language "slippage" is not a desirable phenomenon but the bane of all existance.
asciilifeform: if i were to learn that he made his nightclub seed money by executing contract hits, rather than at netscape, i'd like him considerably more
mircea_popescu: i may even go so far as to say i liked the 90s sv o.O
mircea_popescu: i liked the 90s!
asciilifeform: just confessing that my overall burning hatred for the time, place, and culture in which he became rich & famous spills onto him.
asciilifeform: anyway, not really pissing on the man in earnest here
decimation: well, for one thing they stole mosaic
adlai: rather junior one
mircea_popescu: the www soup is scarcely to be pinned on one man, and if one man were to be found it's likely not this one.
asciilifeform: possibly because only fact i knew about him was him being involved in the dotcom bubble and being responsible for the steaming crock of shit that is netscape, and, by implication, the entire shit soup of www standards
adlai: (for the curious/brave - http://dwim.hu (requires javascript and much searching as it's impossible to link into this 'website'))
mircea_popescu: yeah he has a disco in la he's been fighting the gobmint forever over.
asciilifeform: 'On two occasions I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.'
asciilifeform: dwim is the shortest possible summary of how illiterate folks imagine programming
assbot: DWIM Perl - the Perl distribution that contains everything you'll ever need ... ( http://bit.ly/1BdjdAo )
mircea_popescu: the crowning nonsense of all nonsense, seriously. why is it not obvious that if you give up agency you also give up... agency ?
mircea_popescu: not the past, as this never existed, but a magical future where things work by themselves in the way ~you~ want them to.
decimation: apparently jwz wants to live in the past
mircea_popescu: the entire "i want government to just work by itself and let me to my affairs" has worked splendidly in the us, 70s to 2000s.
mircea_popescu: "I JUST WANT THE COMPUTER TO FUCKING WORK!!!1"
mircea_popescu: if one is willing to take this tack, i wonder why one's not going the whole nine yards and throwing out the keyboard.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043293 << for the exact reason george costanza once pointed out. "it's there"
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: dos was not, properly speaking, a microshit product
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: what's that got to do with microshit?
decimation: wasn't it well known that microsoft stole the bsd IP stack for windows NT?
asciilifeform: microshit wasn't at the table
asciilifeform: decimation: i did not test on any closed-source compiler because they don't exist on the planet i choose to live on
mircea_popescu is mildly offended at this "i will persist in being a redditard" attitude, for the record.
mircea_popescu: "18* adlai wonders what evidence you're expecting to see of the auctions" << complete misstatement of the situaiton. read the logs. search for "foia" might help
decimation: asciilifeform: the wisdom I've picked up from my own experiments and reading about yours is that it seems the ada compiler you choose is critical
mircea_popescu: it's plain obvious she's the democrat candidate.
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 21:51:43; jurov: thestringpuller that's exactly what i do have in mind
asciilifeform: decimation: they are
decimation: aren't those all published on the internet?
asciilifeform: that's the one with chapter & verse
asciilifeform: get the 'rationale' too
mats: yes, thats the downside to having imperfect information
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: there are four adas - 83, 95, 2005, 2012
asciilifeform: at the earliest
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: make sure it describes at least the '95' variant
asciilifeform: all serious technical docs 'written for the ages' ought to be in that format.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: you will have a real bitch of a time learning the language from the standard and justification docs, if that's what you were thinking of doing
mats: i managed to make ~60% ROI in the 13 months ive had a coinbr account
asciilifeform: the 200k helloworld.
asciilifeform: for some reason nobody mentioned the ugliest thing about ada
pete_dushenski: so barring that much braindamage in a single vessle, we should see silbert or whoever packing their bags for rio de janeiro
pete_dushenski: adlai 'the winner' getting out of dodge and never looking back would do.
pete_dushenski: and since osama is basically the usg's religious messiah, come to save it from internal destruction by providing an external enemy, why not make a whole church service around him
pete_dushenski: like the wooly mammoth
asciilifeform: or the body
adlai wonders what evidence you're expecting to see of the auctions
pete_dushenski: actually, osama's body is much like these usms auctions
pete_dushenski: that's the secret
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> which is why the democrats have alternatives. because she's not running. << implying she might run in 8 years?
cazalla: pete_dushenski, pretty sure she can't announce nomination until such and such a date.. part of what made the bitbet bet's that clinton and rand would announce last year an easy win
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu and i'd still bet a nickel on the republicans
asciilifeform: it's a very long road (or so they think) to hitler's bunker and 'headsoff.com' being filmed on washington streets
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform 'the show must go on!'
mircea_popescu: which is why the democrats have alternatives. because she's not running.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: point was that these folks live in a perverse sandbox world where it literally doesn't matter what happens
ben_vulpes: <pete_dushenski> asciilifeform clinton's going to claim 'hacked' when one of these emails shows something undue ? << a good reason to use usg mailservers and own your keys
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski not my country, whadda i care. she's still the only not braidamaged runner so far.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu i seem to recall you saying something to the effect of 'old women in power are the fucking worst'
mircea_popescu: she's definitely the more intellectually capable husk they got floating around. who else, jeb, bush's retarded brother/cousin/sister in law ?
pete_dushenski: well, clinton isn't the wtc
asciilifeform: it'll be like the 9/11 crap.
asciilifeform: 'respectable' mouthpieces won't touch the subject
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform clinton's going to claim 'hacked' when one of these emails shows something undue ?
asciilifeform: because, to the extent is valuable - nonattributable
asciilifeform: exactly the same way btc tx travels in plaintext
mircea_popescu: derp. emails still travel in plaintext, and this is the sigint we get ?
mircea_popescu: "The development on Capitol Hill came the same day The Associated Press reported the existence of a personal email server traced back to the Chappaqua, New York, home of Clinton. The unusual practice of a Cabinet-level official running her own email server would have given Clinton who is expected to run for president in the 2016 campaign significant control over limiting access to her message archives."
mircea_popescu: the blockchain is not an evidentiary record for third parties.
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 21:02:54; mike_c: seems there ought to be some reasonable blockchain evidence one way or the other. don't we know the ulbricht address in question?
mircea_popescu: sure, it's "not been 100% proven as a scam". this however isn't the criteria. you lie, you get caught, you're fucked.
mircea_popescu: which they ignored.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the onus is not on observers to explain the usg. the usg made some claims, which were in due time proven false.
mircea_popescu: coins move all the time.
mircea_popescu: this is exactly identical to bfl delivering miners, with USMS playing the role of inaba.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043160 << the basis is that they made some claims, about selling coins, and then failed to deliver on the coiuns they alleged to sell.
mike_c: but the coins are moving. how does that work?
asciilifeform: nsa, the fed, the nameless ones (tm), et al - are not run by the pheminist antinazi wtf crowd.
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 21:01:23; mike_c: There isn't much doubt that they took ulbricht's coins, right?
mircea_popescu: it's the exact equivalent of german kids that are "anti nazi". orly ?
mircea_popescu: the very notion that the us has any sort of purpose, not even conscious or expressible, but any sort whatsoever is ridiculous on its face. it has all the purpose of a shambling headless zombie. which is why they're stuck trying to invent nonsense, "women and gayz! anti pedo!!" etc.
asciilifeform: and 'loves' the delicious flesh.
mircea_popescu: that's a generous problem to solve, seeing how the part that'll ever get solved was never not solved, and the rest isn't happening.
mircea_popescu: your first doesn't lead to your second, so which do i admit, the first or the sercond ?
asciilifeform: and that's enough for the buggers
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: or they were trying to solve a different problem:
mircea_popescu: what do you mean "it doesn't work" ? this presumes an alt-universe in which there are alternatives, so things could not work. the world they inhabit knows no such thing, and so... of course it works.
mircea_popescu: just like the retarded 17yo who thinks she's a supermodel perceives peoiple walking down the street as "her audience", the redditard generation will perceive everything as sigint rules. because... that's the only thing they can do.
asciilifeform: thought it was more mundane mechanism, where you absolutely must have elint for totalitarian control of the english world, where stoolie culture was not already well developed
mircea_popescu: so you're stuck with slutmint. no matter what fucking happens, it's going to have been a story about how "we" definitely need more slutmint, and all the time and resources spent in the past on slutmint was a good idea.
mircea_popescu: he'd rather swallow a fistful of thumbtacks.
mircea_popescu: if you decide to fuck whomint, where the fuck is harry poter fanfic boy going to find money to pay for his groceries ?
mircea_popescu: here's the long and the short of this story : you got two whores, just like in the chemistry and agriculture story. one's whomint, the other's slutmint. you gotta fuck either one or the other. they both have very specific, life altering constraints.
mircea_popescu: The Express? ill-defined sources appear to want to tell a story about SIGINT succeeded rather then explain how it is that SIGINT failed (at least accor ding to the story getting told publicly).' << doh.
asciilifeform: biggest shared 'in joke' in the world