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(trilema) nubbins`: sure. nevertheless, we can presume that he does
(trilema) nubbins`: presumably mp has criteria?
(trilema) nubbins`: let's examine "mp said it's art"
(trilema) nubbins`: but let's not get tangled up
(trilema) nubbins`: well, obviously it's not the art but nubbins himself that is the cause of the weeping
(trilema) nubbins`: mp said it's art because it makes nubbins weep, or mp said it's art and it makes nubbins weep?
(trilema) nubbins`: you went from "because x feels y" to "and x feels y"
(trilema) nubbins`: you changed your example a bit there
(trilema) nubbins`: same conclusion, different route
(trilema) nubbins`: mp says it's art because nubbins wept, vs nubbins says it's art because nubbins wept
(trilema) nubbins`: art has much to do with it
(trilema) nubbins`: "cured" has nothing to do with feeling
(trilema) nubbins`: "it's art if i say it's art"
(trilema) nubbins`: "i'm cured if my condition is gone"
(trilema) nubbins`: "it's art if i tell you it's art"
(trilema) nubbins`: "you're cured if i say you're cured"
(trilema) nubbins`: surgery definitely falls into the realm of the quantifiable.
(trilema) nubbins`: art acts on people. without "to me", it does not exist
(trilema) nubbins`: someone says a piss pot "is art to me". i don't care, because whether it's art to them has no bearing on whether it's art to me
(trilema) nubbins`: sure, but what does that change?
(trilema) nubbins`: because there's no other way to quantify it, and if you can't quantify things, you certainly can't classify them
(trilema) nubbins`: the obvious implication is that the words "to me" are inserted between "art" and "if"
(trilema) nubbins`: or, y'know, occam's razor. it's art if i think it's art.
(trilema) nubbins`: and you arrive at the conclusion that art is declared by edict from god
(trilema) nubbins`: and so on and so on
(trilema) nubbins`: well, obviously person Z (X and Y's superior) should be the REAL person to ask, right?
(trilema) nubbins`: suppose person X says "this sculpture i've commissioned is art" and person Y says "nay, you are my subject, and i declare it to be not-art"
(trilema) nubbins`: which is pretty lelly
(trilema) nubbins`: your explanation requires that some higher power declares X to be art and Y to be not-art
(trilema) nubbins`: i'm merely offering the simplest explanation for the fact that there are so many things which some people call art and other people don't
(trilema) nubbins`: i disagree, but my disagreement merely illustrates my point
(trilema) nubbins`: and there are those who would argue that such a kidnapping is "performance art"
(trilema) nubbins`: oh fuck i smell smoke hold on
(trilema) nubbins`: which in turn implies that she
(trilema) nubbins`: but the very fact that she weeps implies that she is having a strong emotional response to it
(trilema) nubbins`: the natural extrapolation of your argument is that you can walk up to a woman weeping at the beauty of a painting, or of a spoken word, and politely inform her that what she has observed is, in fact, not art
(trilema) nubbins`: due to quantum physics gibberish, the cat is neither dead nor alive until observed
(trilema) nubbins`: how many arts is Starry Night? how many arts is Fountain?
(trilema) nubbins`: because it's simply not quantifiable
(trilema) nubbins`: none can agree on whether or not X is art
(trilema) nubbins`: because that's quantifiable
(trilema) nubbins`: but the difference here is that all can agree on whether or not a cat is dead
(trilema) nubbins`: where it's neither art nor not-art until someone looks at it
(trilema) nubbins`: and that's fair in the sense that art is some sort of schrodinger's cat type thing
(trilema) nubbins`: trees falling, noises being made, etc
(trilema) nubbins`: but that's just another way of questioning whether an event happens if there is no observer
(trilema) nubbins`: you touched on this when you said it was inert
(trilema) nubbins`: art doesn't exist in a vacuum
(trilema) nubbins`: just as the validity of what my opinion of art is can be debated
(trilema) nubbins`: the validity of their observations can certainly be debated
(trilema) nubbins`: an observer needs no qualifications beyond the ability to observe
(trilema) nubbins`: oh, you most certainly do
(trilema) nubbins`: but as a matter of determining whether it's art, yes
(trilema) nubbins`: universally, no
(trilema) nubbins`: everything is irrelevant but the opinion of the observer
(trilema) nubbins`: it's not THE art on my walls, it's A piece of art
(trilema) nubbins`: well, you're the one bringing definite articles into play
(trilema) nubbins`: my fucking point exactly
(trilema) nubbins`: unequivocally and inarguably a work of art
(trilema) nubbins`: and yet, there it sits on my wall
(trilema) nubbins`: to propose that i hold any position relative to its creator, above or below, is simply nonsense
(trilema) nubbins`: no name, no identifying marks whatsoever, no way for me to ever find out who made it or to contact them in any way
(trilema) nubbins`: about five years ago, i moved into an apartment and found a large piece of wall panelling with a picture painted on the back side of it. it's currently gracing the wall of my living room.
(trilema) nubbins`: and i find such a stance so bizarre that i'm not even sure where to begin picking it apart
(trilema) nubbins`: i dunno, man. maybe i'm applying too much of my interpretation of your "system" into your words, but it seems like you're flat-out stating that it's not art unless someone in a position of power or influence over the artist decrees it to be so
(trilema) nubbins`: if the random bozo creates something that i like, what else would i call him?
(trilema) nubbins`: and thus, random bozos are "artists"?
(trilema) nubbins`: you can't claim to know a man's mind and not expect him to ask you to elaborate
(trilema) nubbins`: nope, that was directed towards you
(trilema) nubbins`: i'm curious to know what your description of my system would be
(trilema) nubbins`: a reasonable enough representation
(trilema) nubbins`: that's quite the outfit
(trilema) nubbins`: anyway, certainly one of the more entertaining reads (article + comments) so far
(trilema) nubbins`: i'm still trying to figure out if i should determine the nature of your point or the nature of your system first!
(trilema) nubbins`: mircea_popescu: just finished; we're *all* misrepresenting the situation. the artists, the art dealers, the museum-going public, and every single person who commented on that post, yourself included. this is why "what is art" is an interesting topic for discussion; everyone colors it with their own experience.
(trilema) nubbins`: innococracy
(trilema) nubbins`: i sold some poor EU guy a rare casascius coin a while back. he insisted on insuring it for its full value, and was very sad when he had to pay hundreds of dollars before they released his package
(trilema) nubbins`: the postal clerk filled out all the customs forms for me. pretty sure they're all marked as "t-shirt", gift, no cash value
(trilema) nubbins`: never gonna get filled, that's just there to give people confidence that the ass isn't gonna fall out of it
(trilema) nubbins`: maybe so, but it makes fine paper
(trilema) nubbins`: tree paper just isn't as nice
(trilema) nubbins`: no more so than the average sensible human
(trilema) nubbins`: none of this dead-tree bullshit ;)
(trilema) nubbins`: yep. acid-free, archival quality
(trilema) nubbins`: all 100% cotton. some of it is black :0
(trilema) nubbins`: received a large order of paper on friday, can't wait to start testing it out
(trilema) nubbins`: paper, wood, w/e
(trilema) nubbins`: i'm much more interested in flatstock than fabric these days
(trilema) nubbins`: ah! you must be one of the slovenia/slovakia packages i'm guessing?
(trilema) nubbins`: printed them, yes. didn't design the image
(trilema) nubbins`: i run a print studio
(trilema) nubbins`: along with flush kits
(trilema) nubbins`: there was a guy selling pregnancy tests on the forum
(trilema) nubbins`: yes, if only
(trilema) nubbins`: first comment, hahaha
(trilema) nubbins`: and the oppressor grows larger still
(trilema) nubbins`: we've got what, five or six banks? and a bunch of credit unions
(trilema) nubbins`: although i think the banking system in america is very different from here in canada.
(trilema) nubbins`: there's always credit unions, i guess
(trilema) nubbins`: in fact, if one were to suggest to them that they're attempting to enrich themselves to the direct detriment of others, they'd proably be very surprised
(trilema) nubbins`: i don't think that many of the people bleating in the AM threads on btctalk have the same level of clarity
(trilema) nubbins`: your honesty is refreshing
(trilema) nubbins`: take a moment to examine the parallels
(trilema) nubbins`: do you want the banks who offered sub-prime mortgages to succeed?
(trilema) nubbins`: i'm ambivalent about their success
(trilema) nubbins`: same bad idea with a different pretty bow on it
(trilema) nubbins`: priced suspiciously like 3 blades in a box, too
(trilema) nubbins`: AM1 made it all the way to 0.88 earlier, i guess people are really expecting a lot of suckers to buy those new box erupters or whatever they're called
(trilema) nubbins`: not too shabby
(trilema) nubbins`: ;;ticker --market all
(trilema) nubbins`: and as a further response, i'd sooner put my eyes out than work in IT again
(trilema) nubbins`: i actually have no idea how ;;later tell works, you know
(trilema) nubbins`: ;;later tell KRS1 professionally, i've coded in VB.NET, C#, java, objective-c, plus web-dev-related things like html/xml, js, and sql
(trilema) nubbins`: ;;seen KRS1
(trilema) nubbins`: anyway! party time. seeya.
(trilema) nubbins`: you kinda have to commit if you want to make something
(trilema) nubbins`: but ya know
(trilema) nubbins`: of course, that probably took decades of hard work, self doubt, and eating from food banks
(trilema) nubbins`: and likely very, very wealthy
(trilema) nubbins`: but to be fair that jonathan meese guy is also world famous
(trilema) nubbins`: and i haven't even had to skip a meal yet
(trilema) nubbins`: i walked away from a stable, high-paying programmer/analyst job this past february to print full-time
(trilema) nubbins`: you'd be surprised how little money you can get by on if you try
(trilema) nubbins`: hardest part is letting go
(trilema) nubbins`: no need to be jealous, it's 100% within your grasp
(trilema) nubbins`: although you'd be surprised to know how much $$ people spend on stacked test prints
(trilema) nubbins`: there are no mistakes, watch the first video i posted ;p
(trilema) nubbins`: ~0.435 btc
(trilema) nubbins`: they're in the museum of modern art
(trilema) nubbins`: at one point marlboro asked them to design cigarette packs
(trilema) nubbins`: _mjoiii: those two are world famous
(trilema) nubbins`: they're called Re:Surgo! these days
(trilema) nubbins`: amazing art, very inspiring to me
(trilema) nubbins`: this one here got me into silkscreening paper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GWdRIYLUQk
(trilema) nubbins`: this "art talks" series is great
(trilema) nubbins`: he's very earnest
(trilema) nubbins`: go watch that video
(trilema) nubbins`: sorry, no idea
(trilema) nubbins`: ^ this guy is almost completely, perfectly fucked in the head, but i had a moment of epiphany while watching this interview
(trilema) nubbins`: "fake art"
(trilema) nubbins`: "real art"
(trilema) nubbins`: lel @ art discussion
(trilema) nubbins`: because it's happened countless times, and nobody ever gave a fuck
(trilema) nubbins`: ....yes, i can imagine that
(trilema) nubbins`: "Can you imagine how the world would react if the US decided that another countries laws were incorrect and they have to comply?"
(trilema) nubbins`: it only needs to feed like 200W of free electricity back into the grid in order to be profitable!
(trilema) nubbins`: heh, "asicminer cube"
(trilema) nubbins`: i do tend to sweat a lot during dick surgery
(trilema) nubbins`: i mean, the moon alone is pretty goddamn far away
(trilema) nubbins`: i wonder at what point leaving earth becomes a bad thing?
(trilema) nubbins`: to the pluto
(trilema) nubbins`: ^ skinnkavaj buying shares
(trilema) nubbins`: my sides, etc
(trilema) nubbins`: <kakobrekla> and everyone wants to hear your opinion <skinnkavaj> I get asked a lot.
(trilema) nubbins`: that whole exchange between skinnsjfakdjfj and kako earlier was pretty lelly
(trilema) nubbins`: i'm having dick surgery later this evening, actually
(trilema) nubbins`: doesn't mean my wife should put 911 on speed-dial
(trilema) nubbins`: it is always a possibility that i will head down to my basement, grab a claw hammer, and smash my dick with it
(trilema) nubbins`: failing to realize that "it is always a possibility" is just a polite way of saying no
(trilema) nubbins`: ^ guy takes this to mean "yeah LTC is totally legit, you've been right this whole time!"
(trilema) nubbins`: <skinnkavaj> (15:18:15) (cryptocyprus) It is always a possibility, litecoin is the only alt I have ever bought and sold, if/when Gox integrates litecoin then there will be more liquidity to make it a more suitable hedge
(trilema) nubbins`: for example, when my eggs were finished cooking, i just tilted the pan and they slid right off onto my plate
(trilema) nubbins`: seasoning is crucial to keeping your pan's non-stick properties
(trilema) nubbins`: because it can remove layers of seasoning
(trilema) nubbins`: yeah, the idea is that you should avoid letting water (and especially soapy water) touch your cast iron
(trilema) nubbins`: removes any stuck-on bits of food
(trilema) nubbins`: kako, as an abrasive
(trilema) nubbins`: i first got into cast iron after learning that the guy who owns javaranch.com is a huge fan: http://www.richsoil.com/cast-iron.jsp
(trilema) nubbins`: cleanup is as easy as scrubbing some coarse salt around the pan with a paper towel
(trilema) nubbins`: and cooked the eggs on the residual heat
(trilema) nubbins`: beauty of cast iron being that i turned off the stove when i removed the hash browns from the skillet
(trilema) nubbins`: and/or fatsos
(trilema) nubbins`: breakfast of champions
(trilema) nubbins`: the same john k who's missing?
(trilema) nubbins`: cabbage hash is popular with old folks here
(trilema) nubbins`: so hahs browns are browned potatoes that you'd add to a hash
(trilema) nubbins`: "hash" is any food consisting of coarsely-chopped ingredients, mixed together
(trilema) nubbins`: breakfast of champions
(trilema) nubbins`: so once those are done, i cook eggs and toast some delicious Montreal-style bagels
(trilema) nubbins`: well, that type smells a lot better
(trilema) nubbins`: just diced potato, fried in oil
(trilema) nubbins`: then you put the potato in the cast iron pan once the oil begins to smoke
(trilema) nubbins`: anyway. the trick to good hash browns is to first microwave the diced potato
(trilema) nubbins`: anything could happen!
(trilema) nubbins`: worse than american airport
(trilema) nubbins`: there's a certain vulnerability involved in getting someone else to wipe your ass
(trilema) nubbins`: well no wonder you get others to cook for you
(trilema) nubbins`: do women wipe your bum after you poo? :(
(trilema) nubbins`: you're one of those
(trilema) nubbins`: fuck teflon
(trilema) nubbins`: anyway, cooking with cast iron, amirite?
(trilema) nubbins`: "Please investigate this issue"
(trilema) nubbins`: kinda loses steam near the end
(trilema) nubbins`: this sentence starts with a lower-case letter.
(trilema) nubbins`: Dear Sirs and Madams,
(trilema) nubbins`: so much effort
(trilema) nubbins`: those linocuts are fucking SICK
(trilema) nubbins`: (eplained using only the ten hundred words people use the most often)
(trilema) nubbins`: relevant xkcd, one sec
(trilema) nubbins`: 1000 most common words
(trilema) nubbins`: yeah, there's a wikipedia written in simple english
(trilema) nubbins`: now there's an idea for a poster
(trilema) nubbins`: you don't see the word "niggardly" used often in conversation
(trilema) nubbins`: ^ panama jack!
(trilema) nubbins`: as if i'd follow a referral link that says "fuk u" at the end! ;)
(trilema) nubbins`: funny thing about ways, i guess
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