BingoBoingo: The intra language sound shifts can be a bitch.
BingoBoingo: My experience and experiments among the unthinking yet literate is that in spoken language situations the behavior channel carries more information than the "language" channel.
a111: Logged on 2019-01-21 17:07 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-21#1888880 -> this reminds me of "after first 10 languages or so, ALL the rest are really easy to learn" lol
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-21#1888953 << imho all the roman langs count as 1!111 (ditto germans; slavs; etc)
mircea_popescu: lead pens ftw, how sweeter the love!
mircea_popescu: and you said it was to show that you were my sweetheart and I was yours. But I suppose you've eaten the one I gave you?"
mircea_popescu: and thus restaurated, we can then continue our readings of the morn! to wit : "You didn't talk like that before," said Dulcie plaintively. "II thought perhaps you'd be glad to see me. You were once. Andandwhen you went away last you asked me totokiss you, and I did, and I wish I hadn't. And you gave me a ginger[Pg 72] lozenge with your name written on it in lead pencil, and I gave you a cough-lozenge with mine;
mircea_popescu: to be served on a bed of lettuce ; on the side : smoked sprats and eggs overed easy with cayenne pepper.
mircea_popescu: in a bowl you flake smoked trout, with chunked : onion (red, raw), pickled gherkins (salt pickles, not vinegar "pickles"), artichoke ; add capers, fresh (or salt-pickled) tarragon leaf. the base cheese is something sweet (schweizer works fine in this instant example), the signatuer cheese is something sharp (here, a very fine camambert, but ideally, casu marzu, well ripe).
mircea_popescu: sooo... while the right-honourable ingredients involved sit for a moment in a bowl to make friends with each other, allow me to describe for posterity what is right and properly known as "the despration breakfast".
asciilifeform: in other lulz, 'numpy' ( 1 of the few useful libs for that lang, does various numericalmethods ) Officially turns tard, proclaims 'this is last ver to support python 2.7, from nao on 3'
trinque: Mocky: nope, just people have been pinging me when they have a deposit, since running them is a human step.
Mocky: trinque is there anything wrong with my deposit from a week ago sunday? It seems not to have gone thru
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-17#1888176 << to update: I've just now set up irssi on the box with no issues. ty again
a111: Logged on 2019-01-21 16:03 mircea_popescu: they really are not hard, especially once one stops whiteknuckling quite so hard.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-21#1888880 -> this reminds me of "after first 10 languages or so, ALL the rest are really easy to learn" lol
asciilifeform: ( which , if lcd, is ~regardless~ stuck latching the bits, even nao )
asciilifeform: iirc we even had a 2014 thread, whole thing where machine shits the frame to the lcd at N hz, is retarded, framebuffer oughta live in the display
asciilifeform: funnily enuff, even the 60hz panels are 'step back' in that they have sloppy vsync, frames tear.
a111: Logged on 2019-01-21 00:27 asciilifeform: i had a 30k$ sgi 3d viewer thing, worked ok ( 1 part 50kg crt, other part went on yer head. ) point is that nao you can get ~same thing for 100. not that there's much in the way of people who are still doing any of this afaik.
asciilifeform: in the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-21#1888701 days, that crt was already the last 1 in the lab ( the headpiece was a lcd shutter, and demanded a 120hz display to output the left-right sequential frames. so had to crt. )
mircea_popescu: other than terminals which are habitually filmed, i can't imagine what use for non-60hz refresh.
asciilifeform: you can buy'em, supposedly, but they have castrated palette
mircea_popescu: back then, if it came to it, could give luser knob, make it 10khz
mircea_popescu: well, much harder to do on the new shits than was on crt.
asciilifeform: i also thought there was in the l0gz a place where somebody measured it with 'soft' 3d and it gave 60+hz. ( can't seem to dig up tho )
mircea_popescu: most machines today have a vidcard for the whole rounded corners bs anyways.
asciilifeform: then could readily 'os' aha
asciilifeform: re eulora -- occurred to asciilifeform to wonder, does the thing actually demand the 3d card ? or could just as readily polygonize with cpu
mircea_popescu: the BAB instr.
mircea_popescu: in other euloraleaks, it seems self-evident that by the time we're done writing a kernel in ada, the os will be called auntoo, right.
mircea_popescu: bette davis' last role, together with a decent it crew (mangano, sordi).
mircea_popescu: i literally know people who would genocide the country for this one sin.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-19 16:04 mircea_popescu: and we can keep going, but you get the idea. russians had managed to make themselves as impopular as humanly possible with the ~only martial neighbour it had at the time.
mircea_popescu: possibly the #1 extant item which puts russkis today in the situation of ye olde http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-19#1826770
asciilifeform: there's oddballs continuing the 'fine tradition' out of , i suspect, sheer nostalgia. ( i do not know whether they use clothespin or get somebody to break nose tho... )
mircea_popescu: WHO THE FCUK could POSSIBLY!!!! in any conceivable universe!!!! want to hear some ukr cosmetologist INSTEAD of bette davis ?
asciilifeform: btw apparently the 'translator wears clothespin on nose' item is mythical : turns out that good % of the tapes were simply dubbed by this 1 ex-boxer, with perma-broken nose
mircea_popescu: o brother.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we had such 'dubs' that one still could ( and normally would, if actually care to understand half a shit ) hear the orig track
mircea_popescu: the language, i mean.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i entirely agree, as consequence of the 'abuse' asciilifeform never once 'fretted' about languages
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform should prolly use it on the dating scene, young hussies respond quite well!
asciilifeform: ( was moar like http://bimbo.club/2019/01/philosophical-transactions-for-the-months-of-july-august-and-september-1716-part-ii/ etc )
mircea_popescu: they really are not hard, especially once one stops whiteknuckling quite so hard.
asciilifeform: ( the funny bit, is that of course had to fucking relearn , nobody in gringolandia actually speaks the lang that asciilifeform was taught... )
asciilifeform had nfi as 5yo, but his folx's plot to move , incl. destination, was already in motion then
asciilifeform: it's what we had in grade school. but asciilifeform's folx decided that was rubbish, took him to old woman with buncha aquariums in her flat, who actually spoke the lang somehow
mircea_popescu: mme carolina orasan. she wasn't very good -- but she was studious and insistent, and i suppose perfectly fine for an orc. the others, even worse.
mircea_popescu: did i recount that incident when we were visiting england in a group (of 20+ people, including 3 professional english teachers) and teh stewardesses asked me to explain things to the rest (of the unruly orcs), back in early 90s ?
mircea_popescu: well, i guess i have the priviledge & advantage a) nobody dared beat me, sticks or otherwise coupled with b) was always better at english than anyone anyways.
asciilifeform: it's esp frustrating to watch when you were beaten with sticks to learn the king's english for no particularly good reason
mircea_popescu: but THEN, the EXACT SAME nonsense spring, painfully and costly wound up by previous generation of exactly-same imbeciles, "english human lang", unwinding EXACT SAME WAY
a111: Logged on 2019-01-19 19:25 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in sad lulz, https://www.blacktowhite.net/threads/moving-away-from-cuckold-into-stag-vixen.146933/ ("Are people moving away? I'm noticing a shift in ads, profiles and websites that I browse. No one is really looking for a cuckold thing anymore. I got enthralled with the cuckold fantasy and I would love to meet a couple that was for it. But Cuckolds couples are hard to find. Couples, single females are easier but as
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha. there's an interesting similarity at work here : the "nuclear family" nonsense spring, painfully and costly wound up by the imbecile universalist-chrsitian sect over a century, unwound in a few decades via http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-19#1888412 process. this, of course, "nobody notices".
mircea_popescu: what irks me is that these are contrary "eases" -- if you say "well, cocksucker, can't palatalize anymore, there's no 'nt' in her world" then what do you say to "she prefers pronouncing ths to thes"
mircea_popescu: and of course there's "dominate" as a fucking noun. "she's a dominate".
mircea_popescu: nah. back in the day they used to spell "rogue" (the high fantasy playable character, right ?) as "rouge", notwithstanding they spoke no french or anything
asciilifeform: prolly cuz the rng picked that one letter to drop this time around
mircea_popescu: oh, and, of course : "Latest activity PetiteGoddess21 posted a journal entry on her profile titled “ill sell whatever you want”: about 10 hours ago I'll sell whatever you want ;) ( including videos, pics ,sexting, etc) if got all types of cloths for sale and request how you want them and how many days worn you want I'll also include a video of me playing in them , using them or anything else ... continue reading → "
mircea_popescu: supposedly made out of distilled chicken coop remains -- shit & feathers.
asciilifeform: btw is there a ro ver of that term?
mircea_popescu: ustards writing "vodka" on some crap they made dun make it so.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i suppose that nah's unclear. plenty cases before where "domme" goes all soft for me ; plenty of cases before where "um... actually looking at your pics... nevermind". and some cases before where these two met, but never before in 12 words or less.
asciilifeform: what was in the profile ?
BingoBoingo: And the moon going into and out of totality isn't the shocker that the sun is. At least not when artificial lighting is involved.
mircea_popescu: pretty sure it's partial here, and i'm on the wrong side of teh hill momentarily.
BingoBoingo: So, total lunar eclipse balcony view. Pretty cool, but lacks the magic of solar totality.
mircea_popescu: that's the fuck it was, 2014.
a111: Logged on 2014-09-07 17:02 mircea_popescu: something like that. so one night while in here, i see movement in the corner of my eye
mircea_popescu: not there sadly.
mircea_popescu: fat people can't find their feet ; but i'm so overweight i can't find my fucking stories.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i was looking for the story of the mouse chewing at the jar lid hole with his tiny teeth
asciilifeform: ( hunt on net, that is, not in BingoBoingostani junkyard , tho i'll be pleasantly surprised if it were to turn up ~there~ )
asciilifeform: ( of same type as dulap-iii and the s.mg machines )
mircea_popescu: oh, so this is the shared ?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'ma include a simple machine-readable ambient thermometer/hygrometer in the cargo, for good measure
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the rk case is about 1.5 metre away
mircea_popescu: the expectation that a breakdown in communication is a stable state better come with a baked-in expectation of 0 financial flows, wtf.
mircea_popescu: "what the fuck do you expect ME to do about that ?!"
mircea_popescu: this is pretty fucking amusing to me, too. "oh, i don't understand the kids... and this is my problem". bitch... if i don't understand them i don't feed them, this "you don't understand me" is just about "tomorrow, i die", naught else. let them fucking work ass off to be understood, wtf, you want me to do it ?!
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: at last 1/3 of the pichis here have pnoHes
mircea_popescu: the "billions" that schmuck was talking about.
asciilifeform: hm i thought they could only grow where a similarly-porcine mother lives as 'office plankton' and prevents contact w/ reality
mircea_popescu: like plague follows rats, these follow touchscreens
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform are you kidding me ? the species is found anywhere samsung put "smart"phones on layaway.
asciilifeform: i had nfi the species is found as far south as mircea_popescustan
mircea_popescu: rapidly becoming the social pariah, this cosmetologist princess-psychologist.
BingoBoingo: If UruguArgenZuela is illustrative they'll fad their way into avoiding starvation with "coliving" and food "recollection"
mircea_popescu: but for instance i have standing orders for 0 tolerance and active harassment / belittling and sabotage of them by my girls, whenever encountered (which mostly is receptionists, but hey)
mircea_popescu: as it is... i dunno, i suspect they'll starve, orange man doesn't seem inclined to continue the slop.
mircea_popescu: well, if hillary had her way they'll all be "social "workers" coming up with rules an' regulations for each other.
asciilifeform: aha. and there aint a cure, any moar than for hydrocephalia. the ideal life outcome for these, is 'institutional' , the kind with shock collar, detonguing, short leash, i suspect.
mircea_popescu: can't say that there's what to dispute this view with, that they've failed to meaningfully individuate.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'm not even convinced there's an 'i' in that there crankcase that is capable of actually 'wanting' sumthing.
mircea_popescu: i do recall in youth was a lot less selective/priviledged, whichever way you look at it ; but somehow inexplicably stupidity not nearly as organised or militant in same youth. i mean, fuck, girls back then were ASHAMED to sit with the mainstream, jesus fuck.
BingoBoingo: "I like being treated like a princess and fucked like a slut." << The anglophone girl problem. They think they want to hold the power, but they know they want the power imposed on them when it counts.
mircea_popescu: sui generis. there's a whorde of these cosmetologists with aspirations, populating what's left of the human side of usg's "ugc" lines, filling up the "journalist" pipelines, camwhoring etc.
asciilifeform: i gotta take off hat to mircea_popescu's strong stomach, i can't picture fucking these things even with ball gag. would almost rather juggle neutron reflectors.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It's an actual thing in the sense "black world order" is a thing
asciilifeform: re 'somebody asked', i suspect that the correct physical model is that old toy ( do they still make'em ? ) with plastic phonograph roll inside, where you pull string and it 'speaks'
asciilifeform: i can't resist to ask, is this one sui generis or is 'financial domination' actual button on the fatlife dashboard thing nao.
asciilifeform: 'However I’m very into Financial Domination and paying me is the only way' << lol!!
mircea_popescu: i suppose you might enjoy the whole thing. http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/hYrat/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: sadly, their way to their butugychag is blocked by a bunch of shriveled old prunes decked in star trek paraphenalia.
asciilifeform: they are simply misplaced atm.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile on the other side, "About me I love the X Files and Criminal Minds. I'm studying Cosmetology right now but next semester I am transferring to Psychology. "
mircea_popescu: by the time your evening's entertainment is screwdriver-juggling neutron reflectors, you've got some pretty serious pretentious issues going. i mean aestheticism is one thing, but by the time that's all that's left...
asciilifeform was thinking of this just this morning, while varnishing the 50kv cabling on the xray box
asciilifeform: i dun consider slotin et al to be shining examples to follow, but will also point out , that errybody dies eventually, and personally would rather chance to eat 100kV than to die of boredom sitting in a chair kanzure-style.
mircea_popescu: yeah... you know i used to do the old thumb-stopper thing... until i noticed i got spots.
asciilifeform: ( i suspect that current-day 'millenial' derps would shit their pants if they saw folx actually at work and the things that are done even nao )
mircea_popescu: well then. monkey was monkying about, gimme a break.
asciilifeform: well arrhenius or who it was, didn't ~have~ to taste his reaction products either
mircea_popescu: while the former is actually true, the latter doesn't follow, it's not like he had to use the beryl for a soup bowl.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-11 01:22 asciilifeform: incidentally much noise was made re the elaborate calculations of early nukes, but good chunk of the design params ~also~ only were accessible empirically. hence the slotin incident.
asciilifeform: problem is the 'xray hygiene' thing, outlined by mircea_popescu in earlier thread
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they do.
mircea_popescu: i don't get why they can't simply use a mirror / scintillator / something.
asciilifeform: there were even some folx doing protein ~neutronography~. and aaalso chix...
asciilifeform: ( btw does mircea_popescu have a theory re why people become crystallographers ? it's almost 100% young chix, and they -- even with modern shielding and safety derpisms -- never live particularly long. multi-MeV xray cannon in yer face... )
asciilifeform: sorta what keeps the old-fashioned crystallography people in biz.
asciilifeform: ( on top of this, the actual meat being modelled is not a rigid object, it has substantially variant geometry depending on temperature and properties of medium, e.g. ph )
asciilifeform: problem is that you want flex in the bonds ( to model strain, van der waals, etc ) but you dun want it to sag.
mircea_popescu: i tell you honestly, if i ran a lab where such a compound was seriously important, i'd spend the 100k or w/e it is to have a model welded out of steel balls and rods, and place it in the lab gym.
asciilifeform: i had a 30k$ sgi 3d viewer thing, worked ok ( 1 part 50kg crt, other part went on yer head. ) point is that nao you can get ~same thing for 100. not that there's much in the way of people who are still doing any of this afaik.
asciilifeform: von neumann comp spectacularly retarded for the app
asciilifeform: imho it's a wide green field for hypothetical resurrection of ~analogue comp~
asciilifeform: i used to do this for a living, tho. ( and no it aint a great biz to be in, the models just barely work )
asciilifeform: there's a practical limit to anyffin.
asciilifeform: mno. when you have 10,000 sticks, thing sags under gravity, in very 'unphysical' way re the item being modelled.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, see, what you call "unwieldy" is the very quality of the item in question. that is it's true value.
mircea_popescu: turns out there's NOT THAT MANY possible atomic states.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: these are great, but when yer doing a protein gets expensive and bit unwieldy ( picture room-sized stick model )
asciilifeform as a boy built the classic toy boat from tin can and soldered ballpoint pen tune (the iron kind), add a camp stove pellet and a++ 'pulse jet'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at the same time, we had very good quality 3d chemistry modeller. it consisted of a bunch of sacks, with colored spheres with holes correctly planarly inclined, and plastic sticks.
mircea_popescu: at least the french socialists entirely dedicated themselves to "aesthetics" ie masturbation, rather than "science" and "engineering"
mircea_popescu: in fact, that publication enduringly shook my confidence in german intelligence. included ALL SORTS of utterly retarded shit -- say a "boat" consisting of a piece of paper with a cut inside, you pour oil there and it "propels" it
asciilifeform: re nn in general -- i vaguely suspect that a quality rng might actually cure the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-20#1687624 problem. but again i dun have any pigs, so haven't had occasion to try.
mircea_popescu: spoiler : they sucked.)
mircea_popescu: (frosi, teh magazine of teh ddr's own pionierorganisation iirc, included a pair in one of the editions i got. i even played with them.
asciilifeform: ( they offer a 50 $ dev kit, compleete with cd fulla winblowz shitware )
mircea_popescu: was all the rage when i was in school. alongside the period "GREAT DISCOVERY" of "3d glasses".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: y'know, neural net, the thing that classifies pig as 'porn' etc. i'm even willing to believe that the chip worx to spec. not magic by any means, 1970s tech sitting on modern ic
a111: Logged on 2019-01-20 19:59 asciilifeform: a fast rsatron is important mainly in light of fast rejection of crapola sent by enemy, rather than for payload per se.
asciilifeform: intel for instance sells 1 , for about 20bux in qty. what is actually on the die , i have nfi, and it only worx with their oddball closed compiler thing.
asciilifeform: ( and again will note, i haven't tried the various irons, may well be snake oils. )
asciilifeform: nah see, they want face reader in pnoje, toilet, ballpoint pen, etc. where (despite mighty effort) x86 dun go.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform only "revived" as a money sucker, afaik deployments still on off the shelf micro
mircea_popescu: even the http://trilema.com/2016/give-computers-the-vote-theyre-cheaper-than-women-even/ hollywood production moved to x86.
asciilifeform: (e.g. the recent fad for 'face recognizer' even revived 1980s item, neural network processor. i haven't personally tried'em for anyffin , of yet )
a111: Logged on 2019-01-20 19:12 bvt: are such machines even build these days? i.e. for dsp, or other use-cases?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-20#1888589 << specialist machine market really died in the 90s, and was buried slowly hence.
asciilifeform: the algo for this, i described coupla yrs ago here.
asciilifeform: this gives the 'write block on disk only 1nce' behaviour.
asciilifeform: in asciilifeform's o(1) tx indexer ( will be welded to an experimental bdb once i get the mmap thing resolved ) there's a 2-level storage -- a 'write-once' o(1) index for blox of age N ( N can be 100-500 in practice ), and a much smaller rewritable one kept strictly in ram ( for 'recent' blox, where the longest chain is potentially movable )
asciilifeform: (tho, will add, the retarded design of bdb, gives early death on ssd. in sane indexer there is never any reason to touch any single block moar than once )
mircea_popescu: in principle, for as long as that's not run out, the disk won't lose sectors. but then again, a definitive answer to this turns into debug-ssd-fw+kernel, which...
asciilifeform concurs that there's 0 point in debug of bdb, it's medicine for a corpse
mircea_popescu: instrumentation to hunt for this is by now in the vein of "debug bdb". which im not particularly inclined to do, marked for complete removal anyway.
asciilifeform: ( there -- found this twice, to date. )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that's the interesting imho part. ftr i have yet to witness a corrupted-but-openable bdb on machine other than where ssd was found to have rotted.
asciilifeform: a fast rsatron is important mainly in light of fast rejection of crapola sent by enemy, rather than for payload per se.
asciilifeform: i'll add , for completeness of thread, that if yer ~sending~, rather than receiving, rsa packets, your bottleneck will be ~rng~ long before it could ever be the arithmetron per se
asciilifeform: the inner loop or 2, tho, definitely can.
asciilifeform: there's an obvious limit to what you can unroll and still fit in any plausible cache tho.
asciilifeform: and besides, the wall wouldn't even have that many bricks -- on a 64bit bus, a 4096-bit addition is 64 instructions long
asciilifeform: bvt: why not ? they all will look same neh
bvt: ave1's fix also fixed the 'undefined references' in static lib with gcc-6.3 for me
asciilifeform: one would still want to audit the output of any such thing tho, by hand.
asciilifeform: bvt: a typical macroassembler would work for the purpose.
bvt: writing such code really could use some program to generate the necessary amount of adds/subs
asciilifeform: bvt: even the current (ch11 and after) ffa relies on a gnat with working forced-inlining
asciilifeform: but this limitation would also be true of any hypothetical arithmetic iron.
asciilifeform: just as you can de-recursivize the karatsuba etc
asciilifeform: therefore you can unroll.
bvt: i guess i could do some experiments here. the immediate question is that ffa does plenty of FZ_Adds with different FZ'Length, so full unrolling would not really work (unless i miss something).
asciilifeform: the skipping itself is expensive enuff on iron with cache/branchpredictor, that he loses rather than wins from it.
asciilifeform: koch's turd, despite being implemented in c, with no bounds checks, actually loses to ch14 ffa , for inputs of same ~width~ -- despite fact that he doesn't constanttime and thereby gets to skip massive work
asciilifeform: ( consider the http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2906#selection-864.0-883.127 experiment, for instance. )
asciilifeform: the penalty from having any branches, of whatever kind, anywhere at all, on pc iron -- is substantial
asciilifeform: bvt: i expect one would trivially get a 10-20x speedup over the ordinary ffa, esp. if the item still fits in l1
asciilifeform: ideally one would unroll ~all~ of the loops ( e.g. instead of looping through the words of a bignum, would e.g. add-with-carry on immediately consecutive words with stream of add instrs, etc )
asciilifeform: anyway pretty sure we had this thread, is in the logs somewhere.
asciilifeform: nao, it isn't as if the current ffa, with 2.7sec 4096-bit modexp, is immediately usable to eat packets at line rate. but that part at least theoretically parallelizes ( i.e. a rack fulla multicore boxen running ffa, can theoretically eat packets at line rate... )
asciilifeform: ( is why all previously published rsatrons , entirely unsuitable -- if there's any leakage at all via timing, enemy trivially derives yer key )
asciilifeform: helps to recall that the problem which originally prompted asciilifeform to write ffa, is a (currently hypothetical) application where rsa sigs are carried in ~individual packets~
asciilifeform: ftr i suspect that entirely ordinary algos, such as are seen in the current ffa, would already give ~line-rate~ (i.e. , 4096 modexp faster than 1G/s nic can give you new inputs to modexp on ) if implemented in iron properly.
asciilifeform: bvt: there's a large market of various voodoo for dsp, but afaik it all operates 'inexactly'
asciilifeform: they potentially win, but only on custom iron really
asciilifeform: bvt: i found a buncha these, when digging
asciilifeform: in simple o(n) bignum operations like addition, the cost of instruction decoding for each consecutive 'add' , is substantial % of the cost
asciilifeform: bvt: possibly the bolix machines also ( they did it in vertical microcode, iirc, tho, and in nonconstant time unsurprisingly )
asciilifeform: bvt: notion was, you gotta stop the pipe if something ~were~ to read it
asciilifeform: could simply have optimized 'take these-here N words and those-there M words, and put bignum addition in memory starting at O, and overflow flag in P ' or similarly
bvt: i wonder how this is a valid argument even there. if nothing reads the flag, there are no pipeline dependecies.
asciilifeform: bvt: 1 of the reasons why ada doesn't offer e.g. addition-with-overflow , is that there is an abundance of sad iron where there isn't even physically a carry flag.
asciilifeform: ( ada standard btw trivially allows for types where this holds true automatically , i.e. throws exception for overflow. but this is not only massively unconstanttime but the overhead is gigantic )
bvt: agreed. on x86_64 is compiled to ADD; SETC sequence, but who knows what happens on other arch/gcc version.
asciilifeform: gcc's knob seems to be geared for scenarios where the overflow is an error condition, rather than expected.
asciilifeform: a correct asmism would simply read the carry flag and put the value where it belongs (e.g. in fz_add, into the next addition, in comba -- into the accumulator; etc)
asciilifeform: therefore that approach is completely verboten.
asciilifeform: btw, must also add to bvt's http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-20#1888517 >> https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Integer-Overflow-Builtins.html admits that : 'The compiler will attempt to use hardware instructions to implement these built-in functions where possible, like conditional jump on overflow after addition, conditional jump on carry etc.' , i.e. there is not a guarantee that the thing dun introduce cond jumps.
asciilifeform: chances are that it wouldn't, tho, given how the table still has to be indexed via fz_mux in order to prevent variant (i.e. nonconstanttime) memory indexing
asciilifeform: ( in all fairness, a large -- e.g. 8bit -- window, ~could~ win, but massively multiplies the memory requirement for the thing )
asciilifeform: possibly i'ma do a writeup on the subj, once errything else is fielded.
a111: Logged on 2019-01-20 16:23 asciilifeform: as i noted previously -- i do not expect to find any moar ~asymptotic~ speedups for ffa algos , such that are relevant to the sizes of numbers typically used in public key crypto
asciilifeform: i prolly oughta add to the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-20#1888508 thing : 1 of the items which seemed like a speedup, but in actual practice sucked, was the use of (constant-time) 2 (ditto 4) -bit windows for modexp ( iirc apeloyee suggested )
mircea_popescu: -reindex rebuilds the index as expected. fin.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in news : http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-19#1888338 << mystery solved. trb uses bdb for block indexing ; the index had an incorrect lobe affecting some blocks ; whenever someone asked for one of those blocks, bdb died and trb never returned.
asciilifeform: 1 annoying aspect of 'iron ffa'-gedankenexperiment, is that none of the available fpga ( either 'ice40' series, or the evil ones ) are anywhere near big enuff to prototype with. it'd have to be simulated a la http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2593 , slowly, and then straight to silicon.
asciilifeform has quite thick binder of curated material on subj, for the hypothetical day that we start baking irons
asciilifeform: ( the gate count, that is )
asciilifeform: note that the 'cube' observation only applies if you're going for a single-clock-cycle iron multer. otherwise it grows as square of bitness.
mircea_popescu: but afaik the double-wide mul, "optimized"
asciilifeform: the # of gates req'd, is a cube.
asciilifeform: ( the 64x64 iron multer in amd/intel, possibly surprisingly, is in fact constant time, in all boxes i've tested to date )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is conceivable that the ones currently sold are constant time , i simply haven't tried'em.
asciilifeform: ( not to mention, a, e.g., 64 bit multiplication table, with extant logic density, would be approx the size of solar system )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ie, splits the ints in bus width chunks and only does all 4 quadrants depending on results from the others.
bvt: i.e. W_Borrow/W_Carry still cause the overhead?
asciilifeform: ( otherwise you end up eating the overhead from the existing portable carry calculation mechanism for no reason )
asciilifeform: in a hypothetical asmistic branch of ffa, you'd want to implement whole comba in asm, rather than merely word mul
asciilifeform: the ~other~, tho less simple, speed boost, is if one were to obtain a machine with wider multiplier !
asciilifeform: the other 'secret' speed boost is if one were to turn off the bounds checks; this gives ~2x speedup across the board. but i dun expect to do this for my personal uses for years , if ever -- it requires 100% certainty of correctness of the program under all possible input
asciilifeform: the only reason asmism even potentially invites itself, is that idjit compiler gives no primitive for add/sub-with-carry or full-word mul
asciilifeform: the remaining virgin land for speed revvup, is asmism for base cases. ( and ~possibly~ in combination with unrolled comba )
asciilifeform: as i noted previously -- i do not expect to find any moar ~asymptotic~ speedups for ffa algos , such that are relevant to the sizes of numbers typically used in public key crypto
asciilifeform: bvt: comba itself ended up on the list of things that made it in by very small margin ( it wins perhaps 10%, on most pc iron , vs straight word*word mul as base case, try it yourself by turning the threshhold knob )