Michail1: So, it redirects to: http://ml.therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/ instead of: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/
Michail1: Your link was to: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev <~~~ no trailing /
Michail1: Ok, found the issue.
Michail1: Strange. works if I go directly to: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/
Michail1: Ok, you're sucking up all the BW. Let Apocalyptic and me in. :P
Apocalyptic: Michail1, yeah same here, looks like the server is down
Michail1: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev -- redirects to: http://ml.therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/ and then times out.
asciilifeform: Michail1: see also http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev starting from feb.'15
Adlai reads the gabriel_laddel manifesto
gabriel_laddel: than "the lordship".
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 00:25:57; nubbins`: or, what was it the guy tried to pass off? "the peerage"
gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=25-03-2015#1069268 << for the record I was not attempting to "pass off" anything, but rather clearly define what it is that I'm talking about. I'm rather happy to have second-guessed that decision because the correct answer is that the lordship isn't clearly defined outside of what has been posted to trilema and as one who isn't a lord I have no buisness calling it anything other
gabriel_laddel: !down the_scourge
the_scourge: plus look at the logs i've been kickbanned
gabriel_laddel: !up the_scourge
gabriel_laddel: The programmatic object returned then can be used on top of something like e.g., CLIM
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 01:11:43; Chillum: the tech has improved only a little(mostly optimizations) since machine learning was invented
gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1096338 << The docview program for Emacs converts .pdfs into .png files for viewing. Use this in 'batch mode' to prep for OCR. Then use ML to extract images, alignment information, resolve citations, authors.
gabriel_laddel: project. I would suggest that no one waste their time working on this for the time being, I've simply cleaned things up on the off chance that I end up in alphabet soup or the like. The remainder of hacking that needs to be done is of the flavor described here: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/gabriel-laddel/masamune/master/browser/conkeror.lisp
gabriel_laddel: I've made little to no progress on the codebase recently short of cleaning it up and ensuring that if, for some reason I'm interrupted, that someone else will be able to pick up where I left off if necessary. The sources, coupled with http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html provide enough detail for one to know what I have in mind and why. http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/system.html provides an overview of the
assbot: Logged on 09-04-2015 21:25:19; ascii_field: http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20141104/NEWS04/141109944/mathematicas-wolfram-sued-accused-of-secretly-recording-calls << l0l! apparently he's still sc4mz0r1ng folks
mats: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-04-2015#1094268 << so much fraud. like claiming credit for the Rule 110 proof of Turing completeness.
menahem: off to bed.. wanted to say: with no trilema, it feels like the net is down. dunno where to surf.
assbot: Logged on 08-04-2015 02:25:15; mircea_popescu: !rate mats 1 Lotta paralegal work on http://trilema.com/2013/so-whos-running-the-courts-circus/
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Chillum!~highinbc@wikipedia/Chillum. Trust relationship from user mats to user Chillum: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mats&dest=Chillum | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Chillum | Rated since: Thu Feb 26 23:32:23 2015
Chillum: with wake-up times that fast it can sleep over 99% of the time and scan every few seconds
Chillum: mircea_popescu: I found this: http://tim.jagenberg.info/2015/01/18/low-power-esp8266/ the sleep mode power consumption is 78 microamps and it can wake up and transmit packets in < 2ms
asciilifeform: we're not there yet.
mircea_popescu: if you think in these terms you're either in an alt-universe where bitcoin can not exist, or you have woefully misunderstood the present one.
asciilifeform sometimes wonders what hanbot does these days instead of working over the old tardphorum with a plasma gun as in the old days.
asciilifeform: the original conversation, iirc, was about usg sibyls
decimation: this goes to the thread re: how to distinguish 'trusted nodes'
asciilifeform head-desks over the kind of things which might constitute 'revelation' to folks who used bitcoin without looking into how it worked
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: that "instantly" is rather iffy.
mircea_popescu: this is a rather valid point.
mircea_popescu: "In fact if an attacker waits until he sees another block on the network, the attacker can be sure that a majority of hashpower is now working on successors to that already published block, and not the one the attacker has kept hidden. The result is not a toss-up, but a distinct advantage to the honest nodes who have published their blocks already. "
mircea_popescu: (british-german rivalry goes back a long time. as long as there was a germany, really.)
decimation: heh they had a quilt somewhere
mircea_popescu: it's all poppycock. they didn't even keep records.
decimation: well, my understanding is that in early english monarchy that the king was more of a 'first amoung equals' rather than 'strict commander'
decimation: lord/duke/baron whoever knows the score, king trusts him to keep a handle on things
mircea_popescu: they didn't even speak a mutually comprehensible idiom.
mircea_popescu: what king do you think ever talked to the baillifs ?!
decimation: well, moldbug would say that the improvement was that there was an actual human the da 'was responsible' to
decimation: 'but it's the people's office'
mircea_popescu: same way you "own" the da office.
asciilifeform: you 'own the sheepskin' also.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "but you own the house"
mircea_popescu: it's a rather precarious existence.
asciilifeform: even in the godforsaken patent office
mircea_popescu: so then... alive ? yeahok.
mircea_popescu: or whatever, ask about how the job sucks.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ask someone whom you know in the civil service what does an overturned conviction do.
asciilifeform: i take elephant's retort, 'i did not care to crush the ant', seriously -while elephant remains alive-.
mircea_popescu: the problems the social security system has are not limited to the social security system. they are endemic, and that because they are systematic.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the soviets ? ALWAYS.
asciilifeform: but does the smart money bet on ant ?
mircea_popescu: decimation this is an angle alf does not wish to see (deliberate engineer's blindness), but in fact compare the afore-mentioned weev with the unfortunate da prosecuting. is weev a lazy bum ? yes. did the poor da work butt off through law scool ? yes. still not paid debt ? yes.
decimation: asciilifeform: was it a home depot? I've had exactly the same experience
decimation: ^ note that the hippies in the 60's were the 'young male', and now they are trying to 'maintain responsibility'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i had an eerily 'sovok' experience the other day. went to a shop that sold, among other items, wooden planks. needed one sawed to fit in car. waited for whole hour, while clerk after clerk inquired, where, where is the one and only man authorized to use saw (kept under lock and key)
mircea_popescu: rather sad state. of affairs.
mircea_popescu: decimation it means, "try and leech as much as you can off the young and impressionable females before a determined and disinterested young male gores you."
decimation: and 'responsibility' means 'yer ass is on the line now', not 'you can choose to do as you wish'
decimation: one sees exactly the same phenomenon in usg today
mircea_popescu: which is how the thing actually failed.
asciilifeform: decimation: nah. that'd be, e.g., the khanate.
decimation: I suppose the only 'norm' that moscow really cared about was 'nominal submission to moscow'
mircea_popescu: feudalism empowers he with most knights, the rest - he wight less concern.
mircea_popescu: decimation the problem with a "democracy", aka representative democracy aka people's soviet is that the victory is always to the fearless.
decimation: I thought that the 'political meeting' was for the party to tell people what to think, not vice versa
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 since you use the web platform andso prolly don't have a local log.
mircea_popescu: god fucking help you if i stand up in the "political meeting" and ask you about X.
Guest64542: ok I see that there is a record of our conversation
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform remember the power of the "people's denouncing" in there ? that's the equivalent.
decimation: re: the gray journal: vintage moldbug > "Of course, they can't do much. You can't submit to the gray journal. There is no formal review process. You simply have to know someone who knows someone who... and who is on the end of this chain? Five or ten very ordinary people, with no particular expertise in anything, perhaps a BA in some science or other. Who happen to have gotten themselves assigned, through whatever feat of
asciilifeform: where - not everyone now remembers, but - believe or not, there were also courts and jurists.
mircea_popescu: ussr wasn't built on the bezzle tho.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we - or at least i - knew that you're fond of courtroom challenge. but i can't help but also remember the various folk who tried this in ussr.
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 04:54:00; mircea_popescu: Guest64542 you know about the log ?
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 you know about the log ?
asciilifeform: (the drives, that is)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, i guess this makes me the first of that evil species of barristish sticklers that you all love to hate that you ever met.
mircea_popescu: i also like free money as much as the next fellow
asciilifeform was kinda surprised, he admits, to learn that mircea_popescu even hosts in a part of the world which even pretends to honour dmca etc.
mircea_popescu: i like a challenge as much as the next fellow, i guess.
asciilifeform: 'why -should- we have to be solid. the world should not contain pointy things'
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 as far as i'm concerned, there's a crowd of silly people somewhere on the web that tricked a dc into bankruptcy. yes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is a more or less plain case of 'i have the right to wear this rape dress'
Guest64542: Mr P: Sounds like your real dipute at this point is with the dc
mircea_popescu: gotta absolutely have /10001 so the next one is /10002 ?
mircea_popescu: but seriously, you're all tech savvy people. who the fuck claims to have, you know, "built the site with security in mind" then makes the db trivially iterable because couldn't be bothered to hash the anything ? would something like user/F2xWjk been so very hard ?
decimation: crossfit is the 1920's 'strong man' circus act, reinvented for today's youth
menahem: also the reason why I stfu until I know backstories from trilema.
Chillum: mircea_popescu: as usual the conversations here require context that takes time to learn
asciilifeform: danced the hempen jig, he did.
asciilifeform: Chillum: yeah. they hanged him
mircea_popescu: but seriously, they're total fucking idiots. i even had a lengthy comment explaining to the derp in charge how to salt and hash
mircea_popescu: what started as a service for folks too simple to understand why they do not wish to be /user/1004555
Guest64542: ok I get that. DMCA is not the proper mechanism for enforcement
mircea_popescu: they already did.
decimation: mircea_popescu: true, but I suspect that the dc could 'find you violating' without asserting anything w.r.t. dcma claims
mircea_popescu: the dmca does not provide for an avenue to enforce anything you wish.
Chillum: the high school nickname is a coincidence
asciilifeform assumed 'chilam', the traditional smoking instrument
mircea_popescu: decimation the dc could claim absolutely anything they wish. the standard still is preponderence of evidence.
Chillum: mircea_popescu: "chills" is what they called me in high school
Chillum: mircea_popescu: I know I was using it before the web
Chillum should REALLY read the IRC protocol RFC
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'refused to dismiss counter-claim.' but how did the case end?
mircea_popescu: Chillum the irc is an old beast chills.
asciilifeform: as in the 'nuclear iran' case recently - can even be magicked away without explanation.
Chillum should read the IRC protocol RFC
Chillum: do irc client reveal what type they are like web browser's user agent?
asciilifeform: decimation: what i meant was: a lawsuit in an american court is won or lost at the pleasure of usg.
Guest64542: ok sorry I wasn't looking at the user ID
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 the datacenter, yes.
Guest64542: Mr. P: Forgive my ignorace, but who is DC? Are you referring to the provider that hosts your site? Or some sort of third-party abritraitor? And what do you mean by "tendril of USG"?
asciilifeform: i have yet to hear of a dc being nailed for yanking the machine of a victim of copyrasty
asciilifeform: (it is probably not enough for tendril status, to merely be in the mythical 'guild of all sc4mz0rs')
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't intend to pursue some dubious "start-up" in canada on the strength of the declarations of some otherwise proven liar / confused internet person.
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's a sad state of affairs for actual providers. they're stuck in the middle. can't really pay good lawyers, can't really exactly judge when customer is going to turn around and bitchslap them with a ten ton hammer...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i predict that the case will hinge on whether 'fetlife' is a tendril of usg in good standing
asciilifeform: 'large' in the buffett, usg-large sense
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dmca is EXACTLY and specifically drawn so large players can squash annoyances, but also minor players trying to do the same get totally raped.
mircea_popescu: oh, i'm not suing some bankruipt derps in canada, who cares about them.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform $100k. remember the bezzleword ?
mircea_popescu: wait until you read into the statutory damages for dmca fraud.
Guest64542: I'm not an expert on DMCA, but I do kind of get the idea that all you did was post links to the profiles, and I don't see how that would be a copyright violation
mircea_popescu: internet brigading is a great way to deal with nobodies, but you run the risk of stepping on the tail of someone who is actually powerful, on occasion, at which point the whole thing backfires.
mircea_popescu: as a warning for later muppets on the score of "fuck with people you don't know"
mircea_popescu: once it's back, im also going to dump the whole db,
mircea_popescu: today the dc nulled that ip, which brings them into liability over the matter, as the complaint is clearly spurious,
decimation: i can see how the dc is in a tough spot
Guest64542: before your site went offline, I did have a chance to read the DMCA takedown notice and your response
mircea_popescu: waited ten days, reinstated the content, forgot all about it.
mircea_popescu: i pointed out to the dc that if it abuses dmca notice process in this way it'll end up liable, and linked them to caselaw.
mircea_popescu: aite. so basically, i saw something, said something. fetlife misjudged itself, and sent a spurious "trademark infringement" claim to the dc.
asciilifeform: so after umpteen many warnings, the king's men roust all the bums that can be rousted, and dynamite the place.
asciilifeform: they even persist in bringing friends over.
asciilifeform: which boils down to: imagine there is a derelict house occupied by alcoholic bomzhes. the city condemned it, but the occupants refuse to leave.
Guest64542: I have a profile at FetLife, and I have seen a rather lively debate there about this. But I haven't formed an opinion yet. I thought it would be interesting to talk directly with you about instead of relying on a lot of chatter
Guest64542: so is your objective to point out flaws in the website? or something else? what are you trying to accomplish?
assbot: Logged on 27-09-2014 15:41:18; dignork: mircea_popescu: on a concept level lurkmore is a copy of encyclopedia dramatica, but they do much better job imho
Chillum: unless they can provide a reliable source to back it up
Chillum: I delete it and usually block the person who made it
Chillum: decimation: I have a javascript snipet that shows me pages in the "attack page" category. Every so often someone makes a page describing what a fag some other person is and an editor markes it as an attack page
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 i ended up making a profile at some point. read some "build from the ground up with security in mind" verbiage from the baku character, sounded exactly like the bitcoin scammer broken record.
decimation: Chillum: precisely, so how do 'you' spare the cycles to prevent the more insideous defacement?
Chillum: it is all we can do to keep the pages from just saying "U R GAY LOLOLOLO)(!"
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 actually, they are picking a fight with me. i generally end fights.
mircea_popescu: you seriously believe that if you split up the value wikipedia added to human society over the years, in "making experts laugh" and "everything else", the 2nd bit would be anything even remotely comparable to the 1st ?
Guest64542: Mr P: I don't understand why you are picking a fight with them
Chillum: really if you don't know how much confidence to give a given data source then that is a failure to comprehend
asciilifeform: the correct way to 'use' an antipersonnel mine...
asciilifeform: but not for the 'user'
mircea_popescu: this is a rube goldberg cube. entertaining, for us. wasteful, for the random derp/.
asciilifeform: Chillum: know the difference between a tool and a boobytrap
Chillum: not the tool's fault
mircea_popescu: i happen to know what things are, having had the good fortune to exist before wikipedia did.
asciilifeform goes to dig for the trilema summarizing mircea_popescu's conference-ii speech re: this, but remembers that his www is down
mircea_popescu: no, iut's a tool for laymen to bolt down their ignorance in such a way that they'll never ever become good, at anything.
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 internet is large, and mostly inhabited by the clueless.
Chillum: First we stored the password and that was stupid, then we hashed it but people could build rainbow tables so we added salt, then things got faster. Now we harden by hashing many times
mircea_popescu: which is what the term means.
asciilifeform: Guest19244: see also the case of weev.
mircea_popescu: Chillum everything even remotely worth reading is out of the scope of a wikipedia.
mircea_popescu: presenting rank ignorance as, rather than humiliatory, a sort of "problem". it's no problem.
decimation: moldbug would say that pinker would gladly suck the cock of a nyt writer so he can be published in the 'grey lady'
Chillum: we get experts all the time and we have to tell them that they can only use what they know if they have sources
Chillum: original research is of course great, but out of the scope of an encyclopedia
Chillum: when writing a tertiary source like an encyclopedia one must rely on experts only, original research is forbidden. It is meant to document the information that already exists without adding opinion
asciilifeform: pinker was covering, making excuses for gladwell's lack of even the most elementary education or curiosity
mircea_popescu: "[W]hen a writerÂ’s education on a topic consists in interviewing an expert, he is apt to offer generalizations that are banal, obtuse or flat wrong." << in romanian this is known as "a waiter at one of these places where university professors gather can actually soak up a lot, often enough to pass himself for one"
Chillum: if they do have an alternative position on jovian science they will have to go through me to get it told!
Chillum: they don't
decimation: maybe they have an alternative position on jovian science
Chillum: half a brain is the key point
Chillum: it is the smart subtle ddos that can run from a raspberry pi on a dail-up
mircea_popescu: and i guess ima hammer the shit out of fetlife now, anyway.
Chillum: the nice thing about application layer DDOS is that it does not require significant bandwidth and can work with high latency
Guest64542: do you expect the site to be back up soon?
Chillum: that is the difference between a script kiddie and someone who is actually doing stuff
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 nah, inept dc caved over a fraudulent dmca notice. will be skinning them for it, next week.
asciilifeform: Chillum: mythical book, which i imagined, telling the 'secrets' of 'k00l d00dz' the world around.
asciilifeform: not paying enough for this info to be readily available to the naked eye.
Chillum: pause for 5 minutes between the header name and header value works for a lot
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 00:04:38; asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> ... dude, why so disdainful ? if you don't trust people you don't know on the basis of what they write << because i can see the hallmarks of educated mendacity. the man, whoever he is, knows that i know the history. and pretends otherwise, and that he has some sort of 'lesson' for old ignorant me. i know the type, they infest (or once did) my comments section.
Chillum: making them all soft
Chillum: when it got close to the top or bottom and alarm would sound to tell you to stop
asciilifeform: (the mechanism which stops at particular floors was invented long after original 'otis')
asciilifeform: yes, the kind that merely has an up/down toggle
asciilifeform: when i worked, many years ago, at 'nih' in bethesda, maryland - they experimented with reintroducing elevator-drivers. as i understood, it was merely an employment program for the Officially Sad
Chillum: they eventually sold the elevator car and motor and used the cash to renovate the whole building, and get a modern elevator
Chillum: last on in Canad they said
Chillum: they had an old elevator with driver
Chillum: I lived in a shitty building for a while called "The Ritz", ironically
Chillum: that reminds me of the intelligent elevators in hitchhikers guide the galaxy, and how smug and annoying they were'
asciilifeform: Chillum: reminds me of an article i read as a boy in some 'mothering/homekeeping' magazine my folks had, about 'should kid thank the elevator'
asciilifeform: (instead of sending gladwell to take his rightful place behind the latrine)
asciilifeform: he was attempting to abuse the very basic mathematical concept of 'eigenvalue', and referred to it, repeatedly, in print as 'igon value'.
asciilifeform: there once was/is an american hack writer named gladwell. was published in huge quantities and the drivel was stocked everywhere, for political reasons which i'm still only dimly aware of.
asciilifeform: not hammering on Chillum here, but the memory was inescapable
Chillum: not seriously annoyed either
Chillum: I really cannot be bothered to fix every little red line under what I type