mircea_popescu: which means about 20 in a year, which the neighbours helpfully PUT OUTSIDE BY THEIR DUMPSTERS.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1180453 << i use the same thing. co2 doesn't bother me much, however, i will go into the ss before i put up with that sort of wrist vibration.
asciilifeform: ^ the most likely picture
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if enemy action indeed rather than the net being a ruinous ball of yarn - they were probably fuzzing for various protocol boojums
mircea_popescu: they had to murder the connection to buy themselves another 16 hours, because OMFG THEY'RE DOING WHAT ?!?!? NOW ?!?!
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 18:11:44; asciilifeform: and it is slow because philipinos have to crap out the diddled blocks by hand
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1180438 << this would be so fucking great if it's the case.
asciilifeform: decimation: or if you meant some oddball 'embrace & extend' of the sync protocol - yeah, we'll probably get there eventually
mircea_popescu: then the ability of the wankers to poison the chain becomes nil : sure, whatever nodes listen to them listen to them. the infrastructure does not.
decimation: asciilifeform: what about connecting something to a running bitcoind, siphoning off blocks as they are 'validated'?
asciilifeform: or say i wanna permit inbounds from lusers but never getblocks() from them
mircea_popescu: the entire idea of what we are building here is NODE HIERARCHY.
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 18:10:46; asciilifeform: that will only make sense once the pipe itself is authenticable
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1180433 << as you clearly notice, the pipe is authenticable does not equal gosspid : we can have out of band authenticifaction as per the above mechanism.
asciilifeform: other thing, that will have to be added, imho, asap, is a non-retarded version of 'connect'
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 18:10:04; ben_vulpes: dun think the thing has a formal name yet. but that which is responsible for grading peers while syncing.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1180430 << another worthy direction yes.
mircea_popescu: to think that it's not already in there for crying out loud.
mircea_popescu: have a -checkpoint=111 -checkpointe=113 which takes blocks 111 to 113 hashes them dumps hash.
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 18:04:02; asciilifeform: can reuse the 'checkpoint' code for this
mircea_popescu: "The exchange sheds further light on the latest work" << yeah. it sheds the following light : "work" by these wankers consists these days of outputting random strings from pre-made texts and trying to do a cute seleciton thereof.
mircea_popescu: roduced for "reasons". and so he is in the unenviable position of one whom we do not doubt that behaves as one that is guilty - ie, must have known, said nothing ever.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> the thing that boggles my mind is that rms ~must~ have known about the fifth column << you would have expected to read about it on his trilema, yes ? of what is this expectation built, if not out of the existence of trilema, and of the existence of mpoe-pr at my orders, and of the culture this engendered ? rms does not read trilema ; in his ignorance, trilema does not exist and same thing can not be rep
mircea_popescu: it all makes perfect sense, looking at it now. they look like patently insane if considered on the merits, but if considered culturally they are simply "i just work here" and "this is how the world works". about as insane as an ant.
mircea_popescu: e world were dreaming about in their cells twenty years ago, like my grandfather looking at the sky waiting for "the americans" to show up.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> linux ecosystem was drepperized so long ago that scarcely anyone remembers. << kinda why everyone is reacting with so much disbelief at the sudden "this is not acceptable". they had been doing it forever, gavin as a marginally retarded peripheral agent of the idiocy got totally blindsided by an armed insurection. that we'd pursue it is i suppose plainly unthinkable, the sort of thing the rmcgraths of th
mircea_popescu: and i base myself on the fact that they worked pretty well in practice until the new generation of "reformist" idiots got involved, and put 'locale' as a concept in c.
decimation: well, as we have discussed here before, the whole idea of shared libraries is kind of a fucktarded version of 'global namespaces'
mircea_popescu: "Nobody must use them except for very few exceptions and for those larger code size is ok."
mircea_popescu: " nobody used the code for real " ; "I personally don't care at all how big static binaries are."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform gets a confirmed kill https://sourceware.org/ml/libc-hacker/1999-08/msg00050.html drepper's the enemy.
mircea_popescu: only thing they do with CP is CI anyway.
mircea_popescu: in other news, i propose a petition to have the "Child Porn" utility removed from linux. why is not MauVe enough ?
decimation: I wonder how long it will be until 'BLM special agents' start claiming sovereignty over their lands
mircea_popescu: "self reliance" = "we fuck in the dirt"
mircea_popescu: them silly kids will not really shoot for burning man, of course, but they'd be REALLY really sad in their corner if it went away.
mircea_popescu: imagine the tensions.
mircea_popescu: your average adolescent male does not own a shirt. the female he'd be interested in dreams about waiting for "the right saudi prince".
mircea_popescu: * asciilifeform has never been to 'burning man' thing and never really grasped the appeal << pretty much the ONLY remaining spot on the west coast to meet slovenly females that are undemanding.
mircea_popescu: 'BLM Special Agent" ? what the fuck ? everyone in the us got their power rangers now ?
decimation: the cord is a little annoying but lack of co coming from exhaust is worthwhile
asciilifeform: mats: l0l, a new 'the onion'
ben_vulpes is still curious about the block-vomiting process, and how bastards make it in
assbot: Sex Offenders Now Required To Have Transparent Rainbows On Their Profile Image - News Examiner - Examine Your World ... ( http://bit.ly/1BZnOdC )
asciilifeform: i have the thing scrolling on own display
asciilifeform: 'few bastards' is not a criterion while we're using the classical sync mechanism;
ben_vulpes: and if thbox serves at a high bandwidth few bastards and blocks that all verify, why not prefer it over others?
asciilifeform: and it is slow because philipinos have to crap out the diddled blocks by hand
ben_vulpes: dun think the thing has a formal name yet. but that which is responsible for grading peers while syncing.
ben_vulpes: (or is that another "jam tomorrow"?)
ben_vulpes: behavior tracker has my attention at the moment.
asciilifeform: see the drepper link earlier today
asciilifeform: but would rather not come to this
asciilifeform: if i have to write an elf diddler to yank it out of the binary, i will
ben_vulpes: i'm not actually entirely certain where the gconv stuff is coming in
ben_vulpes: the thing at this point lies spread apart on my vivisection table
asciilifeform: which is why i said 'we need mechanism...' rather than 'hey mircea_popescu, hash those db turds and send me back via pgp wontcha'
asciilifeform: can reuse the 'checkpoint' code for this
ben_vulpes: i would actually be *surprised* if you did produce the same disk bytes via a network cslurping
asciilifeform: hence why we need a mechanism to actually checksum the blocks and dump it to a man-readable form
asciilifeform: whether he and i have same ?
asciilifeform is not ~at all~ certain that he is actually pulling from mircea_popescu's box, rather than a preet's
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: '...The exchange sheds further light on the latest work carried out by large technology firms in the field of artificial intelligence, a booming field...' << apparently today is still 1966, weizenbaum's 'eliza' is 'latest work'
asciilifeform: that thing is a ready, lubricated orifice for slithering vermin
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 05:26:58; mircea_popescu: also, kernel is a good idea maybe for pogo. not for a proper server. you want people to add it to all their noncritical dedis.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1180185 << my build cannot be considered battlefield-ready in this sense until the gconv thing is burned out with hot irons
asciilifeform: go and strace the thing and yes, it snarfs up this perfectly-irrelevant turd from disk
asciilifeform: (re: the gconv thing. i've been bashing my head against the conundrum of how to tear out that idiocy from my static build)
asciilifeform: in particular, 'in a sense, Windows is a result of the way C++ builds environments, like Unix is a result of how C does it.'
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 14:23:29; decimation: the methods themselves being C++ template methods
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1180335 << pretty much what naggum said: the language and its ecosystem encourages this kind of mental decay - and selects for the susceptible in the first place
asciilifeform: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/serialize.h#0074 << cpp programmers in particular have no notion of hygiene. and the more experienced, the less of a notion they have, as a rule
asciilifeform: they have better pyrotechnics too.
asciilifeform: if i wanted to sit in the sun and dig latrines i could do it for free in .mil
asciilifeform has never been to 'burning man' thing and never really grasped the appeal
asciilifeform: 'BLM Special Agent Dan Love of Salt Lake City was cited multiple times as the person behind many of the BLM requests, according to the emails. Love will have a personal bathroom trailer to be shared with only one other official, according to documents. Love also led the BLM operation against Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy that ended in a standoff with Bundy's armed supporters. He did not return requests for comment this week.'
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mats: i was also watching the stream
decimation: ben_vulpes: to be clear, IMPLEMENT_SERIALIZE is a C preprocessor macro that is composed of other C preprocessor macros (READWRITE) that ends up dangling all the serialize/deserialize methods onto classes of his choosing
decimation: asciilifeform, others: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/serialize.h#0074 < hilarious. C++ methods being 'metaprogrammed' by C macro
mircea_popescu: now, why would it be for ~officials~ is another matter.
cazalla: somewhat similar to that if you dropped a few stars from the ussa flag, you'd still think it was the ussa flag
punkman: jurov, in their defence, it looks like one
jurov: lol they see isis everywhere
cazalla: could only get better if they storm his house and arrest him for an ISIS cake
trinque: I have sometimes been so worried about what huffing isopropyl alcohol did to me that I have even faked symptoms so that I could go to the doctor repeatedly and get all kinds of check-ups. << I gotta wonder if these people aren't just addicted to the notion that they're doing something crazy and bad.
trinque: "I did it because i like the smell." << bahaha
punkman: mats, lol. he's in netherlands, has money, and can't find better drugs than denatured alcohol?
decimation: the IMPLEMENT_SERIALIZE in CBlock is here http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.h#0800
decimation: can you tell me what line you are trying to understand? where the cblock is?
ben_vulpes: but how does it know what to serialize the block message into
decimation: 'overloads' >> with another function
decimation: yes, that's what the template does
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 04:59:46; decimation: I find it unlikely that the fsf will outlive him
mats returns to the shadows
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1180042 << pretty much. HOWEVER, more movement has been made towards sanity in this chan over the past six months than since 2009.
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 04:31:39; trinque: ben_vulpes: y'know no sooner do I even consider relocating to the land of capitalism and Portland's like "but dude! an army of titties on bikes!"
asciilifeform: posting from them right now, l0l
asciilifeform: i'm still in the 90s
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you're thinking the 90s.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1180198 << can't entirely agree here. every so often folks discover carriers diddling 'consumer' traffic in obscene ways (adding tracking crud to http, even) having gone by for years at a time with not a squeak from the chumps
asciilifeform: until we actually get limited mempool, shoot fragging in the head, etc. pogo will be a bit slow
asciilifeform: but overall i like the idea of a dc box with bitcoind and LITERALLY NOTHING ELSE
mircea_popescu: also, kernel is a good idea maybe for pogo. not for a proper server. you want people to add it to all their noncritical dedis.
asciilifeform: y'know how some hoster folks let you drop an iso in when you get the thing
mircea_popescu: properly made sausage actually floats. therefore not a fish
mircea_popescu: "you mean sole ?" "o yeah that's the one!"
asciilifeform: (no patches necessary to the bitcoind proper beyond what was published previously)
asciilifeform: (-connect from motherlode)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and yes, was gonna do this after certain tests. such as the one that is presently failing
asciilifeform: pull down the tarball from ml, try
asciilifeform: but the thing is running on my box now.
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 02:04:04; asciilifeform: There is no dynamic section in this file.
asciilifeform: dropping the connection would get bitcoind rotating to next node
mircea_popescu: this entire experience painfully reminds me of the famous phoneline click somehow
asciilifeform: wouldn't be the first
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: but if you can write your own asynchronous everything, you can finally get the coveted msdos port...
asciilifeform: at this rate, the thing will sync some time after the eeproms in my computer lose 9/10th of their bits
asciilifeform sees another very short burst from mircea_popescu's node
asciilifeform: i was reluctant to throw gccisms in there, but if we go and start building on mircea_popescu's soviet pdp11 we can always roll equivalent macros for that
ben_vulpes: is there a sane cpp logging thing that could be used in place of these print statements?
ben_vulpes: (curse these jackholes who littered the source with printstatements that include function names)
asciilifeform: it is already seeping through the cracks.
decimation: really, he's already lost his war for the reasons you harp on re: bedrock
decimation: but I recognize that rms' stand is probably the only way
asciilifeform: in the sense in which it is now alive? sure
decimation: I find it unlikely that the fsf will outlive him
asciilifeform: i will note that llvm (since i mentioned it again) is upon the most cursory examination a piece of shit, that wasn't even built to 'be good' - but simply with the one and only purpose of killing gcc.
asciilifeform: the one thing the fucking parasites couldn't effectively plagiarize without leaving trace
asciilifeform: .... and another short burst from mircea_popescu's node
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 03:37:06; decimation: "The existence of LLVM is a terrible setback for our community precisely because it is not copylefted and can be used as the basis for nonfree compilers — so that all contribution to LLVM directly helps proprietary software as much as it helps us.'"
decimation: no and as I recall there's hand-written asm in openssl
asciilifeform: rms ~deliberately~ nudges it, whenever he can, in the direction of being as opaque as possible
asciilifeform: quite the contrary.
asciilifeform: had to put it down, too many other things going on
asciilifeform: tried to come up with a mechanical mapping back from bin to what produced each section in the elf
asciilifeform actually began there
asciilifeform: it's 'the spittoon'
decimation: even the severable bits that bitcoind really needs?
asciilifeform: decimation: i don't think that a mathematically-rigorous description of openssl (not to even mention boost and bdb) could be achieved in 10,000 years of sweat
decimation: well, until the book is printed, studied, underped
asciilifeform: decimation: unless i seriously misunderstood mircea_popescu, not only is the reference client the permanent spec, but so are the turdependencies
decimation: well, it seems to me that there ought to be a definable spec between "talk to peers" and "maintain database of blocks"
asciilifeform: decimation: what do they do? queue requests ?
decimation: cutting out the locking, threads ,etc
mod6: asciilifeform: mine looks exactly the same.
decimation: or there's a dysfunctional router somewhere
asciilifeform: somebody's taking a king-sized shit in there
asciilifeform: another burst of milkage
trinque: this I think has something to do with the political problems throughout time
trinque: ben_vulpes: y'know no sooner do I even consider relocating to the land of capitalism and Portland's like "but dude! an army of titties on bikes!"
ben_vulpes: sleep? when all these titties are biking by?
mod6: I can work on that and see where I can get with it; then I have to start working on the SoBA for June.
mod6: asciilifeform: thanks a lot for your work tonight on the Static Builder. I'm a bit zapped to start getting into that tonight. Is it cool with you if I start testing it out tomorrow morning?
asciilifeform leaves the thing running
mod6: I remember from the block 168`001 issue (tx verification failed) that it would start dumping tons of errors if truly stuck.
asciilifeform: as in, nothing moving over the pipe
trinque: there are things to like about this communist land
trinque lawls at the naked folks biking past him
mod6: yeah, they were pretty blown away when I just came and told 'em i was gonna scrap it.
decimation: mod6: mechanics are famous for exploiting folks in what they think are vulnerable situations
mod6: oh, forgot to mention. the place wanted $500 to replace the springs. which is what prompted me to `mv posCar /dev/scrap`
mircea_popescu: if nothing else then because "don't fuck with shit that works"
mircea_popescu: anyway, ima keep it locked to your ip till tomorro then
mircea_popescu: got the command predigested for me ?
asciilifeform: i don't think overcrowding was the issue here
mod6: only to find out that both front springs are broken (lol) and that's what caused the tire to blow out.
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 02:47:49; asciilifeform: (though i'd like to shoot that 'gconv-modules.cache' and 'locale-archive' crud in the head...)
asciilifeform: mod6: there is still http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1179772 and also figuring out wtf gives with '-connect'
mod6: my pos car got a flat today, so I limped it up to the station to get a new tire & walked the ~3 miles back.
mod6: If you stripped out all of the DNS stuff and then did a build with gcc/glibc I'm thinking that would get us where we want to be; sounds like you've done that!
mod6: <+asciilifeform> now what i can't remember is whether mod6 already had this orchestra working <+asciilifeform> (with glibc+static) << v0.5.3.1-RELEASE basically is not true "static" build because of the gethostbyname() (DNS/libnss) calls in there. but was trying to build static bitcoind with uclibc/gcc on gentoo, was hitting a problem described here before. If you stripped out all of the DNS stuff and then did a build with gcc/glibc I'm thinkin
scoopbot_revived: The art of punishment, translated. http://www.contravex.com/2015/06/27/the-art-of-punishment-translated/
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform tell you what, if you don't get to the bottom of it, ima make you an account on the server tomorrow, copy over the blockchain and you can compile your own or w/e.
trinque: and even ufw runs afoul of the "natural language" == easy
trinque: the ufw thing at least gives you a semi-sane "ufw allow from 1.2.3.4 to any port 8333"
trinque: firewall configuration should be a function you write that the network stack runs on every packet
decimation: I kinda get the impression that about 99% of iptables implementations out there are 'cut n paste' from what someone else posted on some website
asciilifeform: they're established, yes..
asciilifeform is watching the packets in real time
decimation: iptables, like most of the kernel, is undocumented as fuck
mircea_popescu: which is not to my eye the expected behaviour.
trinque: seems to be the mechanism by which you call a bunch of asynchronous happenings one "thing", and can therefore act upon those "things" all being available
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: same thing when using conventional therealbitcoin
trinque: strikes me as "promises" to indicate the braindamaged programming environments I've sued
trinque: asciilifeform: am I in the ballpark... having the vague notion that c-gates would be used to indicate whether the inputs necessary to perform a computation are available?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes but did any of them '-connect'
asciilifeform about to test with conventional therealbitcoin
asciilifeform sends warm hello to the nice folks at ft meade sending us tcp FIN's
trinque: mircea_popescu: because layering another turd atop iptables is surely what you want... I find ufw a nice tool to deal with trivial firewall setups
ben_vulpes: are they also /programatically/ nested?
ben_vulpes: why are these critical sections lexically nested?
assbot: bitcoin v0.5.3.1-RELEASE + patches { http://thebitcoin.foundation/doxygen/v0_5_3_1-wPatchesApplied/v0531-wPatchesApplied.txt }: bitcoin/src/net.cpp Source File ... ( http://bit.ly/1LvmktA )
ben_vulpes: http://thebitcoin.foundation/doxygen/v0_5_3_1-wPatchesApplied/net_8cpp_source.html#l00653 << help what am i looking at
mircea_popescu: fully expecting he will have to install vanrish, uninstall alsa, recompile the kernel and fix glibc.
mircea_popescu goes to read the manual for iptables now, to find how you do "open port only for x ip"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wake me up when there's a box to sync from that i don't have to share with public urinators
Chicago: Albeit more active in Wintertime when my rigs warm the house.
asciilifeform: across the room
asciilifeform: who the FUCK thought of that.
asciilifeform: ah it's the retardation
mircea_popescu: doubt they'd be in a much better position.
asciilifeform: let me guess, the duplicates aren't up
mircea_popescu: there's ~30 connected, ye'll have to insist.
asciilifeform: but possibly he had something like what i just posted, but it isn't on the ml.
asciilifeform: now what i can't remember is whether mod6 already had this orchestra working
ben_vulpes: ultraconfused, had to remember why i hadn't responded to the ;;later
ben_vulpes: me neither
ben_vulpes: i did not use the -irc flag
assbot: Logged on 26-06-2015 19:46:42; mircea_popescu: it is not the foundation one, which i am going to compile and run once the instructions come out.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-06-2015#1178089 << note that it isn't 'the foundation one' until ben_vulpes and mod6 say it is
asciilifeform: what was ben_vulpes referring to then
ben_vulpes: no, I simply ran the thing.
asciilifeform: (though i'd like to shoot that 'gconv-modules.cache' and 'locale-archive' crud in the head...)
mircea_popescu: the foundation directing bitcoin development etc.
aseriousgogetta: what is thebitcoin.foundation?? i just found it.
mircea_popescu: lol. apparently you're not the only one.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: but it ought to be clear from reading the build script
asciilifeform: i suppose i ought to have specified this in the readme
decimation: asciilifeform: is this for the pogo?
asciilifeform: decimation: not yet. but i expect to hit the same wall as mod6