mod6: I don't see any attempt to reorg... but i'm gonna increase the db locks * 2 and see if that changes anything.
funkenstein_: er, you got me there
mircea_popescu: so, whatever, dogecon, keisercoin, auroracoin, gavincoin, blablacoin, let the kids have fun
mircea_popescu: this is a necessity, given that reddit simply is "that collection of people at the age and level of stupidity of a redditard"
mircea_popescu: reddit then creating a new dogecoin to serve its perceived needs is a sign of reddit staying reddit, which is top say fucktarded and unable to learn from its mistakes.
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 21:17:35; ascii_field: one telling mark of a tard is that he is unwilling to consider that market's job is not only to supply folks with things, but to REFUSE to supply them
funkenstein_: Vexual, awesome :) where was the show?
phf: that specific breed of bears is tame. mostly you spook them and they run away, or you stay and wait for them to sniff and leave. after a few encounters like that the idea of macing a bear from close range doesn't seem particularly disconcerting
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 21:13:37; ascii_field: the other is so that gavin & co. can try to persuade miners to use their turdball
Vexual: what happenis if theres a bear looking for trouble? do you run away?
mircea_popescu: an' for that matter the "basis" doesn't work like you imagine it does.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193778 << the going rate in that market is a few hundred.
Vexual: and the inverse i guess
phf: The20YearIRCloud: but when the wind dies down (mornings mostly) it's what i would call dignified solitude. mountains, quiet. lots of interesting people living within 100 mile range :>
asciilifeform: but that the idea of turning one on inside a block of flats...
trinque: as opposed to the hiss of hydraulic brakes, blare of horns, rumble of combustion engines
phf: The20YearIRCloud: this was on denali highway which is a kind of a wind tunnel nearby from a glacier. most of it is freezing all the way till mid summer (though i don't know, i spent a winter there)
The20YearIRCloud: but going from that to the city is very, very hard
trinque: and the concentration that can be mustered (in my case at least) cannot be matched inside the engine room
phf: i lived 8 hours north of anchorage for 6 months or so, working remote. when i get out of the house in the morning my ears would heart from the silence. best 6 months of my life
trinque: maybe there's something nice down 90 waiting for me
trinque: decimation: not sure, I've yet to spend time east of them
decimation: trinque: not west of the mountains?
asciilifeform: perelman, as i understand, lives off his mother's pension.
asciilifeform: except that i also want to not have to see them ever
decimation: 70-80% of the population in cities ?
trinque: The20YearIRCloud: ah man, best thing in the world is to not see another human in any direction
The20YearIRCloud: As it stands now ,if I do that here I see tall grass, a trailer, a half plywood house, then a large agricultural facility
decimation: but this means that there are probably many people who are 'trapped' - desire more space between themselves and others - but cannot move away in order to keep a job
The20YearIRCloud: I don't like that, but i REALLY don't like not being able to stand on the back porch and not see anything
trinque: just the background noise is irritating, like living in an engine room
trinque: I spent time on a large farm as a kid, cannot stand the population density of cities
asciilifeform: we didn't have those, either
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: yeah but in columbus at least it is legal to build more than 5 stories
The20YearIRCloud: But personally, I'd never want to live there
Vexual: opposition leader is explaining to the royal commission here on tv, how to build roads that don't need fixing all the time
The20YearIRCloud: They're relatively cheap - $150k-$200k in really well-to-do areas, people want em because they're in the middle of everything and cheap
The20YearIRCloud: Not all people are like that, in Columbus they're building lots of 30-40 story apartments because people want em
decimation: actually I agree with you, I feel the same way to some degree
asciilifeform: that they would feel same way.
asciilifeform: ~i~ want to put as much distance as possible between own arse and these folks.
decimation: could easily fit the entire metro area's population inside the beltway (affordably) if you could build 50 story highrises
decimation: asciilifeform: yes but I'm convinced the reason that people live 2 hours away is because of zoning policy
asciilifeform: they'd just put 2x as many 500k houses in.
decimation: md 200 should be a full freeway, connect with 95 on at least two other river crossings
asciilifeform: the only thing new infrastructure is used for, in usa, is to pack in more chumps for same kind of life.
decimation: asciilifeform: except the highways were ultimately not built
assbot: Logged on 09-07-2015 02:22:22; decimation: a sizable chunk of the wash dc population would move 100-200 miles away if they could commute in 15 minutes
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-07-2015#1194417 << remember how the spiel went when the highways were built ?
The20YearIRCloud: Quite possibly, there's a concrete walkway that's actually sunk down about 6"
The20YearIRCloud: Part of that $400 was to have a guy come out with a camera and inspect the line
The20YearIRCloud: there was a 8ft PVC section between two clay drain sections
asciilifeform: it is two metres under the asphalt.
asciilifeform: i know where it is, because the city excavated it last year.
decimation: yeah, like did they forget to use pvc cement?
asciilifeform: The20YearIRCloud: how is it even physically possible ?
asciilifeform: these drains are made of rubber ?!
The20YearIRCloud: The chat!
The20YearIRCloud: Boy I had a crappy day, one of the renters called me and nothing would drain. Only to find out they've been parking a car on the main drain line. I offered to go out rather than my crew to take care of it, 3hrs later and $400 we've determined that it's all due to someone parking on the drain line and actually pushing it out of the fittings.
decimation: !up The20YearIRCloud
decimation: if not farther
decimation: a sizable chunk of the wash dc population would move 100-200 miles away if they could commute in 15 minutes
decimation: I predict that if the 'hyperloop' actually works (dubious) it would rot the suburbs around megacities
decimation: yeah, I get it, the meatwot is important
asciilifeform: and the inhabitants.
asciilifeform: doesn't mean that i dislike those places, or their inhabitants
asciilifeform: that one is not wanted there.
BingoBoingo: <decimation> nydwracu pointed out how coast elites treat anywhere 100 miles inland in the us as 'foriegn country' << I prefer this arrangement
asciilifeform: because wtf can you live on there.
BingoBoingo: Kentucky is beautiful. Like Southern Illinois, but entirely politically divorced from Chicago aside from Obola
decimation: nydwracu pointed out how coast elites treat anywhere 100 miles inland in the us as 'foriegn country'
asciilifeform: on account of having been built there back when actual honest commerce was a thing
asciilifeform: it hands it out there for historical reasons (it is where the majority of the chump candidates live, given as that is where the anthill mega-cities are found)
asciilifeform: hence folks live there.
decimation: "The total value of all the residential property in Kentucky ($300 billion) falls just short of the value of all the housing property in Queens ($317 billion). The housing value of the Upper East Side all by itself is greater than that of six states."
asciilifeform: the coasts are where usg hands out payola.
assbot: A Map of the U.S. by Property Value Instead of Land Area - CityLab ... ( http://bit.ly/1TmJRPW )
assbot: Logged on 05-07-2015 21:44:22; mircea_popescu: that's really the tension here : usians currently use the us like inept argentines: they huddle around the coast and pull their cocks.
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-07-2015#1188651 < a map that demonstrates your point: http://www.citylab.com/housing/2015/07/mapping-the-us-by-property-value-instead-of-land-area/397841/
asciilifeform: i bet if some helpful fella gave them a few kg of plastique each, they would put it to good use...
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 23:39:06; mircea_popescu: http://polymatharchives.blogspot.in/2015/01/the-inappropriately-excluded.html << this thing is such bs. if the intelligent need to whine on an obscure blog, and for "society" to GIVE THEM shit they're about as intelligent as a mensa chapter. which isn't all that flattering.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193991 << was linked as 'entomological sample' ! specifically, example of folks 'spinning their wheels'
asciilifeform: based on existing nonsense coming out of the we-don't-know-how-to-break-rsa-yet-agency
decimation: how would you know that, if you don't know the hitlist
asciilifeform: my point is that this kind of attack is not only the kind of thing usg specializes in, but pretty much the only thing they know how to do at all
decimation: neither do I. but assuming the pogo isn't a complete bust, someone's gonna have to evaluate the risk
BingoBoingo: I doubt that after today. After the Chicom stockmarket sell embargo and NYSE glitch
asciilifeform: but i don't get to say 'it's low on the list, let's all sleep'
asciilifeform: how the hell would i (or anyone else) know where it is on what list ?
decimation: they ain't gonna do it for free
decimation: comcast can barely keeps the lights running
decimation: I would agree that if the pogo needs to be launched into space, it wouldn't be such a bad thing if it knew where it was on the internet topology, especially relative to other bitcoin nodes
asciilifeform: at what level the fucking will be done, is debatable
decimation: but your 'fucked with at the isp level' argument falls apart in that case
asciilifeform: and the argument that some backwards isp, somewhere, may not be 'up to date', does not sway me.
asciilifeform: there is a 'room 641a' at every single major infrastructural junction
decimation: agreed, but to selectively fuck with known bitcoin nodes would imply the deployment of an awful lot of hardware and expertise globally
asciilifeform: not like it's a secret who they are.
asciilifeform: just the queries from known bitcoin nodes
asciilifeform: decimation: there is no reason why ~all~ ntp servers proper would have to be diddled
decimation: is it vulnerable? yes. more vulnerable than proof-of-work? yes, if in the hands of an idiot
decimation: so if the pogo syncs to a random node once per month and keeps time within a few minutes, it'll be fine
asciilifeform: and the reason is no mystery
decimation: I would also note that if the pogo clock varies in a systematic way (constant frequency error)
asciilifeform: from lack of money to pay the electric bill, say.
decimation: and usg fucking with the way computers distribute time would ultimately be noticed by some innocent bystander
decimation: your scenario would imply that no human looks at the time served by said isp
asciilifeform: i specified a problem. what is the point of saying 'no, let's solve this other trivial problem'
asciilifeform: again with the human eyes and hands.
decimation: some other isp client finds his computer is 'off'
asciilifeform: again with the sun and stars
asciilifeform: detecting an off clock requires another
decimation: and such an error, if it ends up driving the clock off by several minutes, would be detectable in a variety of ways
BingoBoingo: Perhaps L1 and L2 pogo impregnators should herd the impregnated pogos
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> say my isp makes all ntp queries chronically 3 minutes off into the past << Burn a Walmart
BingoBoingo: Only way to truly defeat ISP is mock over the horizon radar which can force PCB to recieve all data as an involuntary antenna.
asciilifeform: say my isp makes all ntp queries chronically 3 minutes off into the past
decimation: I dispuse the 'nothing but pogo would fail'
BingoBoingo: to the extent ntp is depended upon by other implementations, it seems ntp servers may need to be polled. If they need to be polled the prolly ought to be polled at arc4random() intervals selecting arc4random() out of the pool each go
decimation: unless you are willing to accept the risk of a global ntp/router delay attack
decimation: well, if that's a hard spec, and 'launch into space' is a hard spec, the project is a failure
asciilifeform: and their standard x86 turd boards.
asciilifeform: decimation: adding any hardware at all will raise the cost to where we no longer have anything over the phoundation.
asciilifeform: right now i don't know how to help the pogo problem.
decimation: BingoBoingo: can you use your winding to predict the sunrise
asciilifeform: to have the concept of difficulty, nodes only need to know that time has passed, using a timebase that 1) is independent variable from aggregate hash 2) is prohibitively expensive to manipulate
decimation: you mean modifying the bitcoind to accept wider windows of blocks?
williamdunne: From the looks of things, S.MPOE used to have a thousand BTC or so volume per day
decimation: and there's no way around it, if actual human cannot set
asciilifeform: they sorta are.
decimation: yeah but these aren't launching into space
asciilifeform: in so far as you, i, and every other fella on the net wants to know 'what second' it is 'right now', we are dealing in usgtronics
asciilifeform: pogo cannot see the sun!
asciilifeform: the sun is almost literally blinding decimation, making the problem look far easier than it actually is for us
asciilifeform: but say they lived underground, and could not.
decimation: what's the use of 'bitcoin outside of humanity'
asciilifeform: just needs to be 'outside' to the same extent bitcoin is (or naively appears to be)
BingoBoingo: decimation: Astronomical time is probelematic in that we do not know if LizardHitler mothership can subtly tow sun a few miles or give the moon a push
BingoBoingo: As far as I can tell time does not exist other than as a projection perpetrated by the brain
decimation: you were the one arguing to ditch leap seconds
asciilifeform: (yes, decimation will teach you to tell epoch time within +/1 1000 by using the stars and moon. that does not change the essence of the fact that global epoch synchronized by machines is a fiat - specifically usg - creature)
BingoBoingo: Yes, even with the Romans fiat time. But poerverted like now dollar fiat time. At present still enjoy 1934 dollar fiat time
BingoBoingo: Leapweek would purely put USG time in the realm of clearly fiat time
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The time nerds burn the... Well QuickTrip and CVS were done so I guess WalMart
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: and if they decide that 'national s33k0000r1ty' requires a leap week ?
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 23:32:00; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193615 << this is a hollywood fiction. "the strong, silent type". not found in nature.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193979 << mircea_popescu misunderstood my point entirely. which was, that it is possible to have arbitrarily original ideas in, e.g., mathematics, while being certifiably worthless at 'making phriends and influencing people'
asciilifeform: solrodar: and how do you know that they are only used in keystore base class ?
solrodar: it sees their implementations but it doesn't see calls to them via the virtual lookup mechanism
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 23:19:24; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193532 << no one can force them to know it was doxxed, either.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193951 << it's why they produce incompatible ones regularly. because no way to know if it happened or not yet, save for passage of time
solrodar: the one thing which is missing which you asked for is virtual function calls, which are only used in the keystore base class
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 23:15:23; mircea_popescu: otherwise, nothing keeps you from keeping your own time.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193949 << virtually all of them do, however. whether ~i~ choose to run ntp or not does not change the fact that the bulk of the network (including - though i can only suspect! - the mining bulk) does.
solrodar: yeah, it's just a list of regexes, you can change them as you like
solrodar: then cut out nodes with very high in-degree which appeared to be low-level functions
solrodar: started with the standard library
asciilifeform: where did the filter come from ?
solrodar: just remove the filters
asciilifeform: then entirely useless
asciilifeform: these are missing?!!!
solrodar: because if you include all the low-level functions and bignum classes and so forth in the graph then it'll be 10 times worse
asciilifeform: thank you for the effort, solrodar
solrodar: I'm already pulling the graph into a script to do some filtering
solrodar: at this stage the only extra effort is to output it in sexpr format rather than dot format
asciilifeform: solrodar: might wanna ask mircea_popescu if he will award the prize for this item, which is not what he asked for, before putting in serious effort
solrodar: or you just want the data to experiment?
solrodar: so if I provide the graph in s-expression format with instructions, do you have any specific plan for visualizing it?
asciilifeform: because the tool is retarded
asciilifeform: and not half the page away.
asciilifeform: and other thing, if a node is a leaf of only one stem, it should be right next to it
asciilifeform: to maximize space for the arrows.
asciilifeform: idea is, to make the text sit down at whatever angle is needed
asciilifeform: wasn't the idea
solrodar: you can get dot to lay the graph out from top to bottom rather than left to right, but it won't be any better
asciilifeform: they don't have to be
asciilifeform: the captions
asciilifeform: you know, there is no reason why all the letters have to be parallel with the bottom of the page
asciilifeform: (the job won't be done, but it will become possible for me to do it)
solrodar: there are so many edges that you need to leave space between the nodes to keep them from overlapping too much
asciilifeform: solrodar: tell you what. i'm not the one who put up the bounty (that was mircea_popescu) but i was the one who asked for the chart. if you can produce a dependency graph in s-expression format, embodying the info in this graph, ~and~ show me how to get same using open source utils, i will say the job is done
solrodar: I don't think any amount of manual arrangement would shrink the overall size that much
asciilifeform: at least 10% of the page should be occupied by letters.
asciilifeform: another problem is abominably small print
asciilifeform: the most obvious problems have nothing to do with shortest paths
asciilifeform: solrodar: gonna tell me that the structure requires putting, e.g., CWalletDB::ReadBestBlock a mile away from AppInit2, even though the former connects to ~nothing else~ ???!!
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 21:11:38; ascii_field: my patience for 'help the mouse find the cheese' ran out when i was four
mircea_popescu: also consider leaving a comment with the link and a functional email address on the trilema post.
mircea_popescu: solrodar consider register a signature with the bot.
solrodar: I've made an attempt at the call graph you requested
punkman: mircea_popescu: I liked the toilet analogy
trinque: where something unnatural persists for so long it becomes the basis of comparison
trinque: "This is what sociopathy is : what the scum of the earth currently calls its betters." << right, soon to give way to "fagtalkers"
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 20:08:22; decimation: re: political time < it occurred to me that the far more obvious way of synchronizing a clock is to simply take note of the sunrise and/or sunset
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193670 << the mother of all occultations yes
assbot: The definitive tract on sociopathy on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1KPOXmf )
mircea_popescu drops http://trilema.com/2014/the-definitive-tract-on-sociopathy/ since we're on it
assbot: The Last Psychiatrist: The Diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder: What Does It Really Mean? ... ( http://bit.ly/1KPORuX )
mircea_popescu: there is aschilopat, which is a purely nonsense word that is use to convey roughly the same notion, "invisible gross diformity worthy of pity" but it's blue collar slang mostly.
punkman: there's an academic word for it in greek, nobody ever uses it though
mircea_popescu: just like in english, it doesn't actually mean anything, unlike english it is not used by the hipstery youth.
trinque: mostly just that; I hear these terms most often used by someone who thinks someone else has been unfair, and ought to be restrained by the state
trinque: the former something like "does what he wants to, even if people cry" and the latter maybe "lies to his enemies, effectively"
trinque: which leads me to suspect the term itself is stupid
mircea_popescu: http://polymatharchives.blogspot.in/2015/01/the-inappropriately-excluded.html << this thing is such bs. if the intelligent need to whine on an obscure blog, and for "society" to GIVE THEM shit they're about as intelligent as a mensa chapter. which isn't all that flattering.
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 19:55:54; trinque: if he in fact has the capability, then the empathy which might cause him to accept someone else's perspective instead would only be a hindrance
mircea_popescu: fact is, if you're not willing to consider the things you aren't going to do, your not doing them is not any sort merit, and it certainly won't ever work in your favour.
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 19:51:46; ascii_field: the 'capable' part is definitely key. who hasn't met his fair share of hack writers, for instance, poor schmucks grasping desperately for one singe original idea? and never finding it
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193636 << consider many of the things we regularly discuss here. most people are neither willing to consider not even willing to look upon the outrage that goes on daily, hourly. be it icons of say badly beaten up women, or whatever else. plenty of people keep lists of words they won't ever say. this disinclination ~to consider~, however the subject justifies it, is the c
mircea_popescu: and generally, the quality of a system is to be measured by how many people it can make life meaningful for, not how many people it has to kill to survive.
mircea_popescu: so the problem there is of management not of nature. chinese exam taker is a great asset in any sanely balanced system.
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 19:46:07; ascii_field: what makes the exam champ the waste of oxygen that he is ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193627 << this is not unlike inquiring "what makes the sterile woman the waste of chocolate that she is". she only becomes that if you put her in a matronly role. otherwise, i wouldn't want a fertile catwoman.
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 19:38:22; ascii_field: one can have one coming out of ears and arse, and lack the other entirely
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193615 << this is a hollywood fiction. "the strong, silent type". not found in nature.
mircea_popescu: decimation in any case, the time bitcoin uses is a political construct.