mp_en_viaje: happy holidays, or how the ro for it goes, sarbautori fericite.
mp_en_viaje: this is pretty much universally the case, yeah.
dorion_road: ave1 the latest on the gcc discussion is 4.4.7, 4.7.4 and 4.9.4 are up for consideration.
dorion_road: mp_en_viaje I was/am thinking of the bios software as one of the standard parts. if the operator doesn't want to use it, doesn't have to. for anyone that does, it's there to be used.
mp_en_viaje: dorion_road, seems to me you're mixing things. yes, you can run a mercedes you bought on mud roads in your native tardikistan. no, it can't be a mercedes if it comes without a manual, or without standard parts, or if it violates any other fundamental assumptions implicit in the name.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-11-29 13:08:36 mircea_popescu: this 2 really goes all the way back to the proposed portage supremacy i nixed back in 2018 or w/e it was. NO, portage is not special cuntlet, NO, portage may not be more important than any other turd. V rules, portage obeys or goes away.
dorion_road: mp_en_viaje right, if tmsr, then bios to be ruled by V, in line with portgage and all the rest. can still run tmsr os on hardware that's not tmsr bootable with bios build and install optional.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-09 11:56:03 dorion_road: The baseline consideration is, what is the ev of having the already known TMSR bootable bios configs under V ?
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-09#1954635 << wtf does "tmsr" mean if they're not in v, anyways ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-11-17 12:42:50 ave1: I was genesing it, and will continue to do so. But with feedback in the loop. So, for example, gcc comes with an old STL html documentation tree, can this be dropped? (I would say yes)
ericbot: Logged on 2019-11-27 18:40:49 dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-17#1951499 << hey ave1, how goes ? has there been a delivery date set on this ?
dorion_road: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-11-27#1953688 << hey ave1, how goes ? have you been following along the tmsr os thread ? I've assumed you want to continue with your gcc work and own it, is that still the case ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-11-26 15:26:08 dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-25#1953543 << Thank you for the luck wishes. What pace of engagement do you see yourself able to maintain over say, a 30-60 day stretch ?
dorion_road: Generally, my question about your availability to contribute to sorting out some of these early decisions remains of interest.
dorion_road: and spyked on the reasoning for the location of the kernel installation step in the cuntoo bootstrapping script.
dorion_road: trinque you've been highlighted on a couple different tmsr os threads: bvt is curious about what you have to say on the extent to which the bootstrapping/package management/development tools are a source of bloat in Cuntoo.
dorion_road: spyked I left a comment that's in your mod queue http://thetarpit.org/2019/assorted-notes-on-bootstrapping-cuntoo#comment-188
diana_coman: dorion_road: ^ so you can !!up yourself at least while the old voice model is still around.
dorion_road: The baseline consideration is, what is the ev of having the already known TMSR bootable bios configs under V ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-07 10:36:59 BingoBoingo: spyked: My suspicion is that the cost of acquiring a TMSRbootable board is almost aways going to beat supporting new hardware, unless the new hardware is *very* interesting.
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-07#1954458 << I'd tend to agree with the suspicion. First I think it'd be helpful to know the cost of acquiring TMSR bootbable hardware. Defining was TMSR bootbale hardware means and listing the 'known good' board that are already supported by coreboot or similar would be a good start.
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-07#1954457 << I'm looking forward to the uefi disentanglement!
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-07 05:07:30 spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-06#1954435 <-- I'm not convinced it will, tbh. atm buying an existing corebootable board is a much cheaper alternative (for gpg at least) than supporting a new one, on account of http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-05#1954371 ; might work on the long term when the supplies for e.g. x60 will be exhausted, but even then, trying to make sense of closed t
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-07#1954452 << you make good points; I'll have to sit with the thread as well. I'm here to weigh the options and understand what makes sense.
mp_en_viaje: nevertheless, i suspect a superior systematic set of answers to the main questions is on its way from there.
mp_en_viaje: does actually expose pretty much the entire buboe. except it's not a pretty sight, for one thing, and moreover "civilised" life as narrated by the pantsuit's simply not compatible with the observation.
mp_en_viaje: ("scientism", or whatever you'd call the neoreformated creeds of the horde idiotic enough to think itself free from belief)
mp_en_viaje: the collation of the "what is engineering" discussion with ye olde observation and all the many parts in their entrain colliding with the faux ethics of the preva
mp_en_viaje has been re-reading this discussion in lieu of sleeping. there's a lot in there, and i fear not so greatly expressed.
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile in everyday living, there's much more accessible rack-and-pinions. "don't write " " when you mean "\t", god damn it! and such
mp_en_viaje: the pantsuit drive to cleave history from existence, incidentally, is a lot more successful a ploy than their derpy http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-08#1954492
mp_en_viaje: "young men" aka men without history, that's what's there : you can only take for your own the past of another if you don't have much past of your own.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-08 16:43:30 diana_coman: or it gets pushed first and it becomes the new fashion, "was there any other way??"
mp_en_viaje: stands this http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-08#1954553 thing. it can only become such a thing a) retrospectively and b) through the working of authority. much like the imaginary "french resistence" in ww2.
mp_en_viaje: now, much like "engineering" is the supposed "thing sir bouch betrayed", that a) only exists retrospectively and b) only can be constructed by young men
diana_coman: well, I always wanted to do that rather than anything else, what can I tell you.
mp_en_viaje: hard to not do it all the time, you know ?
mp_en_viaje: but then again, everyone should do that. i started doing it in my 20s.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-08 16:58:04 diana_coman: hm, the bridge was his folly in that he should have retired while not yet "the old one, it's time for us"?
mp_en_viaje: a lot more becomes obvious once one turns off the elohim caliban wordmakin' rattle
mp_en_viaje: much like ceausescu, you know ? there he finds himself, among young men for once. for once in a logn while. and he still, he doesn't quite see how it'll go. he's surrprised by the chain of events. i dunno, seems fucking obvious.
diana_coman: iirc he also died quite soon after that so he was truly done anyway, there is that.
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, the queen didn't take it back anwyays, iirc.
mp_en_viaje: (the joke : don't think ; but if you must think don't say ; but if you say at least don't write ; and if you write do not sign. but if you sign -- don't be surprised)
diana_coman: whatever, his keeping the title or something.
diana_coman: hm, the bridge was his folly in that he should have retired while not yet "the old one, it's time for us"?
mp_en_viaje: man's impact on the world surroundant's a lot less manifest than that.
mp_en_viaje: the bridge, contrary to what kids would love to believe, and their mothers prefer to pretend for expediency's sake, did not hold or fall because of what bouch said, or did.
mp_en_viaje: anyway, the situation bears striking similarity to the case of the "patriotic" apuseni thieves.
diana_coman: ah, that certainly (for both successful for 20 years and the gilkes part, sure)
mp_en_viaje: so successful in fact they altered the public space significantly, like after some guy from nigeria wom the olympics all nigerian kids were now swimmers or w/e
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, a yes, that. but by the time someone would venture money in 71, they had been extremely successful for 20 years.
mp_en_viaje: my point being : gilkes DIED BANKRUPT. it's not that bouch "did the bad", that he "left the sacred principles of good engineering behind". if this he did -- what did gilkes do, leave the "sacred principles of businessmanship behind ?"
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, from young to old in the thirty years between 20 and 50, actually.
mp_en_viaje: which it was. but neither bouch, nor anyone else "accused" or "under suspicion" during the proceedings -- all of them his friends, incidentally, the gilkes making dubious passive-agressive comments in the vein of "knowing how treacherous a thing cast iron is, but if an engineer gave me such a thing to make I should make it without question, believing that he had apportioned the strength properly" had been his partner for thirty years at t
mp_en_viaje: it was not self-evident at the time, to the participants, that ALL they had to say reduced to "we are younger men, and you are old. and it is our time to enthuse"
mp_en_viaje: then once that bridge fell, all sorts of "unsympathetic" "expert" witnesses, who were in fact younger men, ~of the coming generation~, and who in fact did get to re-build all the things he either built or designed, had things to say.
mp_en_viaje: a decaded and change later, after the queen (victoria!) was driven over water on the result of that madness, she liked it enough to declare it fundamentally constituent and relevant part of her kingdom (different from the realm she ruled, much like one's wife is different from the woman living in his house, as a product of directed imagination, a projection of reason). he was knighted as a side-effect of this.
mp_en_viaje: which they did -- at the time the first bridge over the tay was proposed (by him), everyone thought it madness.
mp_en_viaje: he didn't remain in liverpool, but he returned home, and with a merry gang of equally enthusiastic entrepreneurs an' worldchangers he set out to... change the world.
mp_en_viaje: this fellow was a bright sixteen year old, who took an apprenticeship in the hot thing of the time, the one happening place for bright young minds : metalworking.
mp_en_viaje: consider if you will the case of sir thomas bouch, referenced to relatively little effect in the recent engineering discussion.
mp_en_viaje: fwis all these apparent successes have hidden economic counters underneath that are often not understood until a long time passes.
mp_en_viaje: anyway, back to the point : who knows, given all the passive resistance, code literacy may even have to wait 1500-3500-wharever years.
mp_en_viaje: the greeks didn't have metal casting so never did that.
mp_en_viaje: (originally, these were wood, both in collieries and otherwise. then metal sheeting was added on top, to reduce wear / improve friction. then to deal with the buckle, the rail became all-metal.)
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, nope, involved no flooding. just dragged the damned things over specially made, elevated... rail.
mp_en_viaje: the loads guided with separate pin/groove arrangements, rather than the familiar wheel retainers, and the thing built out of wood. but, historically, a TRAIN refers to a horse-drawn wagon arrangement.
diana_coman: oh, they moved the boats on that? I thought they had some part to flood for the purpose or something (because yes, isthmus is landmass)
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, no, the isthmus is landmass. it was basically wooden railroad.
mp_en_viaje: incidentally : the oldest... trackway, shall we call it ? in the world was in use since 600 bc to about the first century. it permitted boats to cross the isthmus of corinth, it was maintained and operated for the general public like any other tramway.
mp_en_viaje: conceivably usage should be the regulator of that
diana_coman: maybe; to my eye there is also the annoying layer of "oh, I'm too busy writing about MY stuff to read (as in properly review and/or sign) other people's stuff.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-08#1954513 << this is not a problem peculiar to that particular corner, either. people who write, write. people who don't write, don't write. the two aren't really the same thing, you can give some rope so type-1 individuals finding themselves in a type-2 tradition renounce and extricate themselves. but that's about as far as it goes.
diana_coman: by now I have stuff to write up, down and every other way really.
diana_coman: it's the first time I manage to crash nano like this but I suppose it won't be the last time.
diana_coman: opened up a vpatch from a dir eg nano -wF patches/some.vpatch and then from inside attempted to open another vpatch that was however in dir "a" - apparently it crashes; I did not yet spend more time to find out exactly why/where/how.
diana_coman: eh, let me hereby inform the forum that in my current investigations of v-tronicity, I have managed therefore to crash (repeatedly!) the nano editor! with SIGFPE, arithmetic exception!
mp_en_viaje: seems that he also said something along these lines, making the man-maintained space-tab distinction a bit of a monkeyism itself.
mp_en_viaje: the other node of the argument, to be perfectly fair, is that a lang editor that ~doesn't~ auto-tabulate is thereby broken ; and perhaps the case stands that a language wherein this can't be done -- is also broken.
mp_en_viaje: lotta windows users are like that, most of their keyboard usage is repetitive pressings on the same key. which is i suppose how people even came up with the "hey, make the screen a single button and be done with it" next node of "improvement"
mp_en_viaje: much like all the ooga-booga languages are suspect, and so on.
mp_en_viaje: for that matter, running strings over the output of one bringing up lots and lots of gggg pppp rrrrrrrr etc suggests monkley rather than man involvement.
diana_coman: the \t thing is at times annoying because the key is also mapped to other stuff but that is arguably a matter of "set the workbench so it's not"
mp_en_viaje: it isn't a huge problem, which is why it wasn't particularly resolved, then. or i guess now. or ever be
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: I don't know re that as such; ie I don't mind it either way, whether \t or space, I don't see it as a huge problem.
diana_coman: myeah; honestly, reviewing the whole V-stuff, the part that bugs me most turns around exactly this sort of thing: the core idea as I see it was that "code is text" and therefore it should be discussed and read and undersigned and referenced and all that intertextuality and context and all; in practice there are the vtools providing some of the mechanics, there's a spread of discussions going every which way and otherwise there's rather ...
mp_en_viaje: indeed it seems to me one who's not capable to on his own mental power discover how to use the button over the caps lock and the button between the alts when first given a computer is also, and for that archsufficient reason, not qualified to ever touch one, or be included in any computer anything.
mp_en_viaje: i expect the discussion still stands now as then : you can either do the sane thing or the dumb thing ; doing the sane thing's burdened by the anal child argument that indeed a lot of dumbasses have already been permitted to shit into the discussion
diana_coman: indeed, \t or space, no other option exists really.
mp_en_viaje: i was firmly on the \t ; asciilifeform did not like it, wanted to do the dumb thing. ~nobody else said much on the topic, and he quashed discussion with "who's gonna fix all the dumb code already written by all the other dumb people"
mp_en_viaje: however tabs can ONLY be described as \t. a succession of spaces IS NOT a tab. only \t is a tab. a succession of spaces is a succession of spaces, even if "it looks the same" on some particular hw-sw combo
diana_coman: some people space code with \t precisely in the idea that you can set it to whatever you want it to be; others with spaces; and looking back through those discussions it seems to go one way and then the other and overall I have no idea if there was some conclusion to this or it remained up to each vpatch author or whatevers.
mp_en_viaje: no, \s is not ambiguous, it can only mean " ". for the same money you
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: do you mean the vpatch should contain literally "\s" or what?
mp_en_viaje: forced-size tabs are stupid, because maybe i want the tab displayed as eight, or maybe i want mine displayed as two. it's not something that should be fixed at write-time, much like paragraph flow is to be decided when the paragrap
diana_coman: as I ended up doing a long log-crawl on v-matters because it's still bugging me, I found several discussions on spaces vs tabs but overall I can't tell what the current conclusion is on this: does anyone know?
mp_en_viaje: i know some rural dumb cunts very much like the us. nobody outspends them on kerngknekjvsdfks.
BingoBoingo: They dented.
mp_en_viaje: i thought for a moment they did that artificial nacre thing
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-07 20:15:41 BingoBoingo: Breaking down the Pizarro disks we discovered... Some platters don't shatter
BingoBoingo: drawing attention is typical of a Thursday night at this hour. Meanwhile a number of the smaller forgettable plaza have above average, but still unimpresive crowds.
BingoBoingo: Report on the local kids: small but slowly growing crowd where crowds normally grow on the Rambla. One 'Republicana' Police tank parked near the Montevideo sign. At least one helicopter flying low and angrily sweeping its spotlight all over with no apparent purpose other than to "be seen". Several pairs of motorcycle cops riding along the side streets, also likely with the "be seen" mission. The amount of kids present in the spot
BingoBoingo: Heavy on the salt.
BingoBoingo: As in all of the platters from the few spinnign rust drives in the rack. After having been sanded they are soaking in a Tomato+ColaBlack sauce on the camp stove.
BingoBoingo: Breaking down the Pizarro disks we discovered... Some platters don't shatter
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-07 13:59:44 BingoBoingo: !!rate jfw 3 Met in person. We rolled servers on the rambla.
mp_en_viaje: this spyked discussion's something the fuck else lmao.
deedbot: BingoBoingo rated jfw 3 << Met in person. We rolled servers on the rambla.
BingoBoingo: !!rate jfw 3 Met in person. We rolled servers on the rambla.
feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/2019/work-plan-for-m12-2019 << The Tar Pit -- Work plan for (the rest of) M12 2019
spyked: indeed, there's that
spyked will admit he doesn't even know how reverse engineering costs can be estimated, most likely due to lack of experience. will ask around, maybe someone in the field can give an idea
BingoBoingo: spyked: My suspicion is that the cost of acquiring a TMSRbootable board is almost aways going to beat supporting new hardware, unless the new hardware is *very* interesting.
spyked: urds is gruesome (read: both very risky and time-consuming) enough that doing it once will shift the business towards tmsr hardware
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-05 06:33:41 spyked: also otoh, I'm not entirely sure custom biosen/chips are the way to go, since they require a fair amount of reverse engineering, which is usually a massive time sink. it'd certainly be an interesting research project, but it's not something I'd make the delivery of tmsr-os depend on.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-06 13:04:11 dorion_road: a V-ified cooreboot will provide more leverage in increasing hardware coverage. if a patron wants to sponsor the owner (or anyone else from his WoT) to expand the hardware coverage, having it V-ified forms a good foundation as I see it.
spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-06#1954435 <-- I'm not convinced it will, tbh. atm buying an existing corebootable board is a much cheaper alternative (for gpg at least) than supporting a new one, on account of http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-05#1954371 ; might work on the long term when the supplies for e.g. x60 will be exhausted, but even then, trying to make sense of closed t
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/the-momentary-dusk-of-reason-or-the-world-as-a-received-trigrammaton/ << Trilema -- The momentary dusk of reason ; or the world as a received trigrammaton.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-04 23:02:02 mircea_popescu: it's this sorta thing that gets you bloody.
lobbes: My root issue is really that I haven't been optimizing for the best case in general. Completely separate from that is the issue of my general computer illiteracy. Both of these I can work to cure via diving into ebuilds, so I'll hold steady on this course I reckon
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-06 13:16:27 dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-04#1954338 << on the one hand, there is other work to be done aside from writting code, but on the other hand, portage/emerge/ebuild system is python.
lobbes: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-06#1954439 << this is true. I've given it some reflection, and I'm going to go ahead and commit to diving into the ebuilds.
dorion_road: while I understand you wanted to the logging project to go smoother, but you were also picking up a new langauge for the job.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-04 22:49:59 lobbes: and even then, it has always been 'soft computering' like reporting, sql queries, excel jockying, etc. The only programming language I really know is python (and that I've only ever used here in tmsr)
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-04#1954338 << on the one hand, there is other work to be done aside from writting code, but on the other hand, portage/emerge/ebuild system is python.
dorion_road: to summarize then, having coreboot owned, even with minimal hardware coverage to start, provides a long term incentive to have this key piece well covered.
dorion_road: With that being said, the operator ought not ~have~ to use coreboot to run tmsr.os since so much extant hardware has yet to be liberated from vendor control of the bios.
dorion_road: a V-ified cooreboot will provide more leverage in increasing hardware coverage. if a patron wants to sponsor the owner (or anyone else from his WoT) to expand the hardware coverage, having it V-ified forms a good foundation as I see it.
dorion_road: In the immediate term, Corebootable machines are part of the consulting package jfw and I are offering clients.
dorion_road: If a full process insurance business can be derived from tmsr.os in the longer term, I'd expect the bios to be included (assuming bios as it's now referred is part of the end process).
dorion_road: I'm sure many people here are doing that as well, these logs are where I first learned about it, afterall.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-06 05:20:08 spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-05#1954385 <-- so the idea here is that whoever wants to tmsrize their box can also get help replacing their heathen bios/firmware with a V-ified coreboot? this is the business proposition that I'm seeing atm.
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-06#1954419 << there are a couple layers to my thinking. the idea started from the basis that I'm compiling and installing the bios on whatever hardware I'm using using for a trb node, tmsr-pgp, etc.
dorion_road: In my brush up of, now wtf again is SMM ? this morning, I referred to an old article by robert. r. collins on the topic. He's new to me, but CV looks impressive, anyone here come across him ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-06 05:17:15 spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-05#1954378 <-- it was part of a study on (or rather using) qemu, to figure out how whatever software runs in SMM interacts with the OS at boot/run-time. unfortunately it got piled under a bunch of other work and I never got it published.
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-06#1954417 << the SMM interaction with OS is an important branch of study/understanding to my eye. publishing what you have may become a priority down the line, so it's good to know you have that experience.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-06 05:14:46 spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-05#1954376 <-- tyvm dorion_road! yup, I'll add uefi study to saturday's plan, the first step I have in mind is providing some context/rationale and making an estimate of how much the study and mapping process is going to take.
feedbot: http://ossasepia.com/2019/12/06/cutting-through-the-tangles-notes-on-graphics-in-eulora-vii/ << Ossa Sepia -- Cutting through the Tangles (Notes on Graphics in Eulora, VII)
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-05 12:01:38 dorion_road: With that being said, BIOS auditability and integrity is a key piece of the pie and someone owning it and adding configs for the set of supported boards would be a win to my eye.
spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-05#1954385 <-- so the idea here is that whoever wants to tmsrize their box can also get help replacing their heathen bios/firmware with a V-ified coreboot? this is the business proposition that I'm seeing atm.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-05 11:46:51 dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-05#1954369 << interesting to know on the SeaBIOS experience, what'd you do with that ?
spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-05#1954378 <-- it was part of a study on (or rather using) qemu, to figure out how whatever software runs in SMM interacts with the OS at boot/run-time. unfortunately it got piled under a bunch of other work and I never got it published.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-05 11:45:25 dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-05#1954366 << thank you for the update, sorry to hear you're under the weather. I hope you're able to rest up and recover. I look forward to the discussion!
spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-05#1954376 <-- tyvm dorion_road! yup, I'll add uefi study to saturday's plan, the first step I have in mind is providing some context/rationale and making an estimate of how much the study and mapping process is going to take.
BingoBoingo finally applying to places in Buquebus range (also Missouri en Argentina del Norte). Trying not to hold "No querés re-activar tu proyecto de venta de servicios web? Nosotros para ayudarte podemos ofrecerte el servicio sin costo inicialmente..." against them.
diana_coman: well, they have actually developed a partnership that works, certainly.
BingoBoingo: jfw has indeed. Publishing quite the treasure trove. The jfw/dorion pairing seems to be a great benefit to the both of them.
BingoBoingo: We appear to be first outside of the mailing list on this, so taking a bit of time to try spreading
mircea_popescu: to the attack, but this was incorrect, at least regarding IPv4" << the moneyshot there.
mircea_popescu: and every other time
BingoBoingo: The whole "we're going to Microsoft better than Microsoft crowd seems to have been caught prone in the field this time.
BingoBoingo: ^ In other lulz
mircea_popescu: this is ~all~ obviously crypto-matter (which'd explain why the forefuckwits managed it so poorly -- crypto is like the intellectual antithesis of moronman)
mircea_popescu: i must know, at the end of its run a) that it optimally used the bytespace by wringing out periodicity in the input ; b) that only the designated keys can ever get the input back out and c) that a specific set of occurences will not harm the contents. such as "two consecutive lost bytes once ; AND six independent lost bytes". or w/e it is. set percentually or w/e.
mircea_popescu: the WHOLE FUCKING POINT of "armored" mode is to armor it, you're not wasting those 40% extra bytes just for the sake of wasting them wtf.
mircea_popescu: so koch-gpg is, out of the box, worse than useless for archival : tar / zip / etc as they exist on unix-likes are fucked in the head enough such that if there's a byte error, either the remainder of the archive or the bytes past that one in the list are lost ; but this can be mitigated at least by having multiple copies. gpg however, multiple copies are equally useless, if none make it intact the contents is lost, because
mircea_popescu: in other "lulz", in the sense that koch & co are so fucking evil it boggles the mind : gpg has an ascii armored mode, which however contains no error recovery.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-03-04 16:14:16 mircea_popescu: empire does not in any factual sense exist. man who works 70% of the time for idiots is === the remaining 30% of that man.
dorion_road: I haven't developed it very far past what's in those articles and what we've done to develop JWRD, but seems like there is a medium to long term profit center to establish.
dorion_road: It occurred to me this morning, this tmsr-os project could be utilized medium to long term in both lifetime support consultancy and the hottest business idea in btc (code review and code insurance) ventures.
dorion_road: With that being said, BIOS auditability and integrity is a key piece of the pie and someone owning it and adding configs for the set of supported boards would be a win to my eye.
dorion_road: While there must be a bootloader to run tmsr-os, Coreboot need not be utilized on a system, even if that system is already supported by Coreboot.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-05 06:33:41 spyked: also otoh, I'm not entirely sure custom biosen/chips are the way to go, since they require a fair amount of reverse engineering, which is usually a massive time sink. it'd certainly be an interesting research project, but it's not something I'd make the delivery of tmsr-os depend on.
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-05#1954371 << I agree reversing chips is not a dependency of tmsr-os. My thought process there is it's an optional package.
dorion_road: how about you outline your first steps there in the plan you'll be publishing saturday ?
dorion_road: the uefi 1/2 cleavage is a priority crevice to map in detail.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-05 06:29:20 spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-03#1954183 <-- ftr, I'm not especially familiar with coreboot, though I've swimmed for a while in the SeaBIOS code a couple of years ago. but otoh the uefi 1/2 cleavage is worth studying and documenting in detail and I'll take that up if you think it's a priority.
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-05#1954369 << interesting to know on the SeaBIOS experience, what'd you do with that ?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-05 05:49:41 spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-02#1954056 <-- apologies for the radio silence. I've been down with a nasty stomach flu the last few days. I'll catch up with the discussion in the next coupla days and I'll give my take on bios/bootloader ownership
dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-05#1954366 << thank you for the update, sorry to hear you're under the weather. I hope you're able to rest up and recover. I look forward to the discussion!
spyked: also otoh, I'm not entirely sure custom biosen/chips are the way to go, since they require a fair amount of reverse engineering, which is usually a massive time sink. it'd certainly be an interesting research project, but it's not something I'd make the delivery of tmsr-os depend on.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-03 18:05:46 dorion_road: as it turns out, it seems to my eye that it'd suit you well, given, e.g., the low level firmware work you're doing. do you want it ?
spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-03#1954183 <-- ftr, I'm not especially familiar with coreboot, though I've swimmed for a while in the SeaBIOS code a couple of years ago. but otoh the uefi 1/2 cleavage is worth studying and documenting in detail and I'll take that up if you think it's a priority.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-02 18:36:12 dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-29#1953812 << thanks for the background spyked. I agree we're at the phase of figuring out what is really needed.
spyked: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-02#1954056 <-- apologies for the radio silence. I've been down with a nasty stomach flu the last few days. I'll catch up with the discussion in the next coupla days and I'll give my take on bios/bootloader ownership
mircea_popescu: in other webidiocy lulz, http://ivy.paheal.net/_images/61370761c2ece4571a3a354e16605a52/1556124%20-%20Bugaboo%20Princess_Peach%20Super_Mario_Bros..png is the FIRST, and roughly speaking only, non-stroller result for a pic search for the string "bugaboo".
mircea_popescu: well how the hell do i know what you can change
mircea_popescu: i dunno this has anything to do with computers per se, or in other words even if you decide you want to write, or make pottery, or run an isp or whatever the fuck else, you'll just meet the same bugaboos in different skirts.
mircea_popescu: it's this sorta thing that gets you bloody.
mircea_popescu: anyway, to belabour the point : the difference between us, dictated by experience and high level understanding as it may be, nevertheless comes in simple droplets. where i choose to let sql handle its own date format and use proper numeric notation for time, you attempt to convey string dates across boundries. it's [http://trilema.com/2015/the-downtrodden-are-downtrodden-for-a-reason-step-on-their-faces/?b=Old%20age&e=trea
lobbes: well, current saltmine (doing reporting) not only doesn't have awk, nor bash, but is on winblows (no surprise) and no administrative rights to do anything useful on computer). It is comical really. The amount they spend in time/money to do things that could be done with a 5 minute bash/awk (which again, just goes to show that in Incan lands it isn't about actually doing, just looking like doing)
ossabot: Logged on 2018-12-04 10:15:46 mircea_popescu: lamp was, in strict historical terms, the ~only~ linux success.
mircea_popescu: not even a bad idea, i'd say it's the core that carried the http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2018-12-04#1878244 thing
lobbes: that may be part of it haha. The more I do learn, the more I realize that I don't like it enough to ~want~ to be in front of a computer all day
mircea_popescu: in fairness, sql is as much a programming language as any of them. bash, too.
mircea_popescu: from what i've seen, most people decide they don't really like computers once they get to know them at all.
lobbes: and even then, it has always been 'soft computering' like reporting, sql queries, excel jockying, etc. The only programming language I really know is python (and that I've only ever used here in tmsr)
lobbes: I mean, I make my living doing it in Incan lands, sure. But the bar is much lower in those lands
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-07 04:57:27 mircea_popescu: so : who would like to do a spot of work for hire for me ? the ideea is to write and publish as a vpatch a stan logbot extension which a) processes search, through talking to a [presumably present] mysql server, and spitting out the results (formatted as in http://trilema.com/2019/
lobbes: I'll keep combing it for bugs in the meantime, what can you do. Gives me time to make sure there will be no issues on prod server either I suppose
mircea_popescu: lobbes, no but think about it, even if i add the dump now, it'll be 20+ hours until it ~completes~. i'd like to you know, have more than a day after that if a problem crops up. it's just not feasible anymoar.
lobbes: otherwise, for the foreseeable future I will be available whenever you are to look at this (save for the last week of December)
lobbes: mircea_popescu: well, what are you looking at for hours left? I can try and get this to you in the next say 5 hours
mircea_popescu: ftr, today's the 5th, just started ; and it's also the absolute last day i can possibly receive this thing. after that, ima be on the road for a while.
lobbes: weird huh. Possibly I was just implementing it wrong; I haven't looked too much into it tbh. Though I did find a workaround (instead of "<" operator, simply a "<>". I ultimately just need to tell if the days have changed from one line to the next, so that works); re-running my archives into my testblog now. Then I'll be going through with a veeeyyry fine toothed comb
lobbes: in any case, fixing now (there was also an issue with some of the bot lines being out-of-order, which will also be fixed).
lobbes: well I found the source of the conflated months weird. For whatever reason, the date compare for python fails when it is comparing formatted dates across months... i.e. "31 Mar 2016 < 01 Apr 2016" evaluates to ~false~, yet "30 Mar 2016 < 31 Mar 2016" evaluates to true like it should
deedbot: 2019/12/04 06:03:55 <lobbes> mircea_popescu: seeing as these were fence post errors, I'm going to get some sleep and cut this again with a fresh head. I'll get that dump to you tomorrow (with just the fix to the months)
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-04 18:33:13 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in other random lulz : ip72-200-206-184.ok.ok.cox.net - - [04/Dec/2019:09:48:29 -0500] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 195732 "http://localhost:8094/fs/local/root/home/calcnerd256/workbench/proxy/static/dangerous.html" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Ubuntu Chromium/78.0.3904.108 Chrome/78.0.3904.108 Safari/537.36"
mircea_popescu: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-04#1954303 << also apparently there's a bug in the brackets-to-html convertor.
mircea_popescu: wtf they teach xtian masters of science in oklahoma is anyone's guess by this point.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in other random lulz : ip72-200-206-184.ok.ok.cox.net - - [04/Dec/2019:09:48:29 -0500] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 195732 "http://localhost:8094/fs/local/root/home/calcnerd256/workbench/proxy/static/dangerous.html" "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Ubuntu Chromium/78.0.3904.108 Chrome/78.0.3904.108 Safari/537.36"
BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/0A7Q5 << Meanwhile in ongoing flailing during the 4 month transition, Special Senate session to force through some shit!
BingoBoingo: Down here I've seen more of the latter. Then again "porch piracy" is not a concern here while it's endemic in old country.
hanbot: priority post, right, where your priorities ain't theirs.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-12-04 10:07:40 BingoBoingo: Who would have thought the English would be the ones to sloppily fail to repack things being shipped.
hanbot: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-04#1954294 << eh it's ~always the "civilized" folks doing the stupidity-via-disrespect; i had a camera shipped to cr a while back amidst worries the locals would fuck it somehow, but it was the US side that stole it. the other half of the snailmail racket just delivers stupidity-via-formalisation, almost a kind of too much respect for the items in question, zero respect for the agents involved.
BingoBoingo: Should be quite some time before the kid runs out of bubble wrap to pop.
diana_coman: well, tbh I saw way worse from others ie not-packing-at-all, literally left as an overflowing mess; it's still funny though, certainly.
BingoBoingo: Who would have thought the English would be the ones to sloppily fail to repack things being shipped.
diana_coman: they half-heartedly shove it all back in again ie they didn't steal anything but didn't really pack it either; one of the drive bays' clamp was sticking out of the box even; I took some pics for the lolz but not sure when/if I get around to publish them.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: found them (ie 1 bag), yes; on the other side, even the corner of the metal case is bent, lolz.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: ty for letting me know. Have you found the misc screws and pull loops for the rails tucked into the leftmost drive bay?
diana_coman: BingoBoingo_: the server finally arrived (and rather surprisingly, since the tracking page had no mention of any delivery date even this morning), thank you; it's been thoroughly pawed and decorated with "border force" tape but they can't hold a candle to you when it comes to packing, clearly.
lobbes: mircea_popescu: seeing as these were fence post errors, I'm going to get some sleep and cut this again with a fresh head. I'll get that dump to you tomorrow (with just the fix to the months)
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/the-alleged-crisis-of-the-supposed-engineering-or-mistaken-identities-pantomiming-a-comedy-of-manners/ << Trilema -- The alleged crisis of the supposed engineering, or mistaken identities pantomiming a comedy of manners.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/what-the-fuck-is-this-then/ << Trilema -- What the fuck is this, then ?!
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/the-tmsr-os-implicit-clients/ << Trilema -- The TMSR-OS implicit clients
mircea_popescu: i would FUCKING HATE IT if this is what i do for the coming years, find and fix lobbeslog bugs.
mircea_popescu is now somewhat petrified by the process, seeing how the first 2-3 errors were found on the spot, the 4th only once a few articles were in, and this last one only after a month was in.
mircea_popescu: aite, im stopping this. restate your thing properly! by which i mean, fix this one thing ; don't fix the rest of the issues, i've as you've seen meanwhile written bash around it.
mircea_popescu: yup, march 2017 ALSo starts on the 2nd.
mircea_popescu: fencing errors will be the death of you my good man.
mircea_popescu: please tell me you didn't do this systematically for EVERY month, whereby they all start on 2nd ?
mircea_popescu: lobbes, look here : http://trilema.com/2019/forum-logs-for-31-Mar-2016/#2069891 ; you conflated march 31st and april 1st ; your first day in april is thereby april 2nd/.
ossabot: Logged on 2016-04-02 00:26:08 deedbot-: [Daniel P. Barron] Count me as thick, I dun see the connection. - http://danielpbarron.com/2016/count-me-as-thick-i-dun-see-the-connection/
lobbes: mircea_popescu: that is odd about apr 1st being missing. There were logs that day: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2016-04-01
mircea_popescu: but yes, a large chunk of the job is now done!
mircea_popescu: lobbes, was there no april 1st ?!
lobbes: they're looking good so far. ah this is nice to see
mircea_popescu: with apologies to anyone who perhaps had business to transact today, #trilema is undergoing the second (and forevermore last) festival of log recuperation ; should be done in about twenty hours.
mircea_popescu: there we go.
mircea_popescu: well, ~under~ the toolbars on trilema ; but fwis on most other blogs it ends up on top.
lobbes: mircea_popescu: nice. sorry for all the gyrations
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2019/forum-logs-for-30-Mar-2016/#2068497 << this is example of why the breakout td btw. without that magic word, the line'd just push everything to the right over the toolbars.
mircea_popescu: the problem with multiple posts on the same exact second is that mpwp sorts them incorrectly. (like feedbot, gets them in reverse order).
mircea_popescu: lobbes, well, in the process of fixing, should have something presently.
ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-02 16:41:29 mircea_popescu: so instead : hey lobbes, please fix these and give me a one-line-per-post dump, formatted like "INSERT INTO tril_posts(id, post_author, post_status, post_type, post_name, post_date, post_date_gmt, post_title, post_content); INSERT INTO tril_term_relationships (object_id, term_taxonomy_id) VALUES ("articleid-1", 44);", wheren the ids start with 90800 and the time is now+3 hours whenever you start doing it.
ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-04 04:37:32 mircea_popescu: lobbes wtf dude, you set ALL of these to 2019-12-03 22:03:06 time ?! didn't we go through an entire discussion of how it should increase monotonically ? gah.
ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-04 04:37:32 mircea_popescu: lobbes wtf dude, you set ALL of these to 2019-12-03 22:03:06 time ?! didn't we go through an entire discussion of how it should increase monotonically ? gah.