mircea_popescu: consider the traditional antisemitism -- a cluster of lumphocytes around a very real problem, yes, but SUBJECTIVE PROBLEM OF THE JEWS. not irritating "the organism" as such in any sense, beyond the very obvious an' deeply human "you folk can't be this fucking stupid!" thing
mircea_popescu: well, maybe not every, but plenty of contemporraneous ones. (see ? again with the "is pig female or is female pig" conundrum. captive in history as we are...)
BingoBoingo: Which I merely captured from the fat people hate movement
asciilifeform: the boars very similar.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-13 15:18 mircea_popescu: even MORE ironically, one can quite say [www.stirimondene.eu/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/alina_mungiu_pippidi_10197000.jpg][this] was the face of the opposition. (chick married that dork, hence the double name.)
mircea_popescu: but there ~IS~ something fundamentally piggish about the contemporaneous female, if the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901725 illustration didn't bring it into focus.
asciilifeform: when weighs 200kg, difficult for non-zoologist to distinguish boar and sow, is where the similarity.
mircea_popescu: it is a constant complaint of the actual females, this. and one i always agree with -- when they bring it. because yes, there's nothing fundamentally female about the pig.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, as i understand, maps the 'pig' to 'female', but the model is quite same, this is moar of a label on the knobs
asciilifeform: e-style and 'let nuffin happen', ohnoez, 'happening could get in the way'
a111: Logged on 2019-03-13 16:25 BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> i dun have a better algo to give for how to reformat a cultural hdd , afaik that's still the state of the art. << Well there is the US Socialist Disney block by block reformat algo as well
asciilifeform: upstack, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901856 << i suspect this is red herring. it is 'institution' making a stab at regaining lost territory. asciilifeform's suspicion is that if 'history struggle', it aint between so much specifically 'new and old elite' as b/w human-man ( who wakes up and knows that he was put upon the earth to cut atom, build harem, etc ) and beetle-man, who 'knows' that he was born to eat from trough prikok
mircea_popescu: the qualiy of your summaries recommends you to writing on bimbo.club.
asciilifeform: ( recall, the not long ago thrd where a: 'cultures are born, live, senesce, and die, like organisms' m:'poppycock' a:'best i got that makes any sense of the sinusoid')
mircea_popescu: "i made chair, for man to sit in, with my hands as directed by my head, and an endless supply of stirpituri & tirituri, with my cunt, as directed by the cock going into it. WOE IS ME!"
a111: Logged on 2018-12-02 16:06 asciilifeform: nao, on other hand, 'cyclical histories' where 'confederacy of dunces' gangs up and dethrones their betters, and then whole edifice turns to shit, from shit grows sumthing new, etc. -- this i can buy, we're quite evidently in the trough of that sinusoid just nao
asciilifeform: sorta why asciilifeform goes in for the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-02#1877828 take on the histories
mircea_popescu: she hangs herself, over sheer despair, at the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-15#1670676 coming out of her.
asciilifeform: goes with the genre.
asciilifeform: eh if there's reservations of profoundly touched tards where they cry for the 'matriarchate' aboriginals, wainot also this.
mircea_popescu: "roxy you dumb whore, get your sons women like you, not like your dumb mother."
mircea_popescu: "but mp, it worked. and we loved it". at least the horses were alive, that merits something. "but our figments and hallucinations -- just as alive to us!!!"
mircea_popescu is vaguely curious if a century hence there will be tears shed over "all the destruction". someone's gonna cry for systemd, what.
asciilifeform: lots and lotsa grade-a folx , literally outta the mud, and straight into 'take country from wooden plough to thermonuke and moon buggy'
a111: Logged on 2017-02-03 05:29 phf: my mom had one of those "papa escaped the purges by burning all paperwork but life got tough when they took our governess" piano teachers, who would lament about being forced to teach peasants and brown folk, not on racial grounds as much as "you have to have a bidet in your house for 3 generations, before you can touch a piano"
asciilifeform: sovok , fwiw, properly poured cement over the http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-03#1611080 thing
a111: Logged on 2018-12-02 00:07 asciilifeform: there's a preserved communique from stalin to hrusch, where the latter served up umpteenth list of meat grinder candidates and stalin replied 'rejected, have measure, idiot'
mircea_popescu: is the only distinction that i don't actually hang the various negrated morons ? because i can swear it is to me a merely cosmetic matter, i would not lift finger one to stop it if they were in fact beheaded for it, and stalin did MORE than me in this vein, hence http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-02#1877763
mircea_popescu: and i daresay that the thing is working admirably well ; but not nearly as well as the sovok mechanism did in fact work -- the imperial officers would never have beaten the wehrmacht, for one thing.
asciilifeform: e.g. i have a (long-dead) distant kinsman whose father stayed alive in '20s strictly cuz he burned his swiss diploma. pretty sure ~erryone in sovokistans has a similar tale.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> i dun have a better algo to give for how to reformat a cultural hdd , afaik that's still the state of the art. << Well there is the US Socialist Disney block by block reformat algo as well
mircea_popescu: diana_coman but ~which people~ ? whole point of industrialization is moving from the traditional to the modern. is the idea that ceausescu is somehow personally responsible for the fact ?
mircea_popescu: any kind of ro elite was long gone by the time ceausescu came in, he gets to hide behind ye olde "greaua mostenire" trope.
asciilifeform: new elite grows always either from arse or from foreign conquest, from where else, martians aint about to parachute one in
diana_coman: also re stale bread vs new bread I disagree mircea_popescu ; people used to make their OWN bread; not stale
mircea_popescu: diana_coman what, the horses ? the "killed elite" thing would be what, i gh duca ? (and guess what, digging for that reference i also ran into -- apparently there's a piece re the afore mentioned prince)
asciilifeform: and yes it's quite destructive. but rly not moar so than the properly-dynastic oh so civilized west euros ~thermonuking their kingdoms in ww1 for perfectly nonjacobin 'great game' reasons
diana_coman: asciilifeform, if you are into purging, at least purge the whole lot and be done with it; this sort of "let's cut the elite and then we grow a new one out of our ass" is stupid
asciilifeform: i dun have a better algo to give for how to reformat a cultural hdd , afaik that's still the state of the art.
diana_coman: for completeness, I can say that I know from direct experience both force-peasants-to-town-into-big-houses and vanish in the night for having had too much wealth beforehand; none of it (in either case) is an achievement as far as I can see
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i can't get behind the usual reaction where 'noshit, this is retarded, what didja expect' tho. how the fuck ~else~ do you properly purge an oldregime wot ?
diana_coman: their* parents, of course
diana_coman: mind ~exactly the same as current "equality!!!" quotas and whatnots, I consider that the moment one does this systematically, there is right to complain that he ends up with idiots
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I suppose one of those days I'll sink the time in and properly write-it all up and at least be done with it; I knew people who were not allowed to study at university because of "poor background" meaning that there parents had university studies; I also knew people who were pushed to the university because of "good background" although they did not have either inclination or desire for it; and leaving aside how this is to my
asciilifeform: tho this simply moves the recursion, ~somebody~ up the line had to let things get to this
mircea_popescu: suleyman had the worst harem possible, his mom picked it.
asciilifeform: revisiting upstack re ivan and his missing harem -- suleyman is even moar of a case of wtf, had not only correct 'church', but working harem, and then 'wrapped it around telephone pole' when roxy
diana_coman: eh, re ceausescu, they first killed whatever elite there still was and then they got all critical and whatnot; lasati
mircea_popescu: it is quite the case usistani "superheroes" are mcdonaldization of greek pantheon, yeah.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> greek gods read rather moar like the americans' favourite 'superheroes', humanlike. << Except better because they fucked hooker and played proto blackjack
asciilifeform: the xtian ver. seems to be considerably moar rotting of brain
mircea_popescu: i don't imagine the concept of "god" is per se harmful. greeks also had, and various others.
mircea_popescu: i suppose matter should remain open for he who can be arsed to read on it ; that's the best i have for a theory in the meanwhile.
mircea_popescu: yes, but his mother got poisoned as a little boy, and up until 15 he was... a peasant ?
asciilifeform: regency yes, re the rest i have nfi
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform wasn't ivan raised by a regency, in the manner the prince of talleyrand-perigord also describes, "as a vagrant or the poorest of the poor" ?
asciilifeform: it is therefore much moar of a puzzler, why didn't
BingoBoingo: And neither did Henry
mircea_popescu: comprehending is a draw on mental energy ; comprehending women perhaps the largest ; unschooled orcs perceive this issue whereby the costs mount exponentially and the marginal benefit is nil (you can only fuck one hole at a timwe anyways!!).
mircea_popescu: "why should i be bothered with a bunch of them". henry also serial-monogamized, rather than make them eat eachj other out.
asciilifeform: the obv. next step, seems , is to actually use that fucking crown
asciilifeform: i still dunget fully why ivan did not enharem. he had all the 'ducks lined up', boiled in oil good % of the folx in any position to constructively object, even ran experiment where half the kingdom was a personal human-hunt reservation, to test.
mircea_popescu: also very effectual at quelling the female will-to-spawn. "do you understand what will happen if you make me an idiot ?"
mircea_popescu: but see, one needn't be stalin. officers in question had all they needed, did not apply.
mircea_popescu: yes well. the word for that is manalone.
mircea_popescu: it is the correct algo. cut off the lost node and pressure the last conneected node.
mircea_popescu: b) i would deliver ~the wife~, naked other than for being beaten black and blue, straight out of the trunk into the courtyard of her ancestral home, and publicly explain to her father that if i ever hear of any of their intolerable kin he'll hear obituaries.
mircea_popescu: a) i would ~ignore~ the sons. you've seen me do it before, yet it's not obvious to you. death of heroes belongs to they showing some promise, why muddy it up. what if i mixed some mud in your cocktail ? i would not insult the heroes-in-baking by this addition.
asciilifeform: then i'm stumped, 1941-45 was my 1 crib sheet re problem
asciilifeform: send the sad sons off to the front, the less braindamaged ones come back, the rest 'die the death of heroes'
a111: Logged on 2019-03-07 23:18 asciilifeform: buncha kids, mostly of local party elite, seekritly sewed themselves some semblance of ss uniform, and raised swastica flag at night on city hall; then marched to cemetery and laid half a tonne of flowers on old white army graves
mircea_popescu: suppose we're all us, but we're not us in the following sense(s) : a) we're all married, in the sovok style ; b) we all have sons, about g_l's age ; c) it comes to light that http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-07#1900877
asciilifeform: i dun think he had the 'if they aint retarded, they will co-caesar and eventually eat me' problem -- consider pacepa.
mircea_popescu: not exactly. there must be a thread, uniting things to the center of the world. if there's no thread, there has to be a change. if the thread's valid but interrupted at center you have to recenter.
asciilifeform: aint the whole point of a vizier, to handle the 'i can either king or learn c++' problem ?
mircea_popescu: was retroactived into "oh, he had been sick", but this is both factually untrue and completely unknown at the time. in the sense "obama is president of china" is completely unknown at this time.
asciilifeform: i gotta bite, an' ask, how is ~that~ bit of magic maintained...? do they have an eliza running, to post as him ? or how else anyone thinks 'not dead'
mircea_popescu: i can see it, "worked for stalin coincidentally, had ceased working by 70s". notwithstanding that the EXACT picture perfect rendition of said bootlick : http://trilema.com/2010/la-moartea-lui-adrian-paunescu/ (a fellow who i declared dead on trilema a week before he actuallty died, ro press "omitted to notice", by the way, a week later, when the "suprising event" occured)
asciilifeform: ( where actual one, sent in '37-'38 mostly folx who were the most disgusting bootlicks, fattest apparatchiks, they continued to send! him! letters! with 'tov. stalin, to whom i remain most loyal servant..' etc )
mircea_popescu: and this because he ~opted not to~ (unawaredly, but just as opted) through the exact process of "this is too stupid to understand". it is too stupid to understand ~deliberately~ and FOR THAT PURPOSE.
asciilifeform: m thereof
asciilifeform: i suspect he was working from stalin, but not the actual one, but own mental phanto
mircea_popescu: and he systematically didn't understand the ~only set of dorks who belonged in jail, as a sort of public service, for re-realization.
BingoBoingo: Like Franco probably just wanted to ranch and watch the cows, but guild is house with that oil wealth
mircea_popescu: the problem is -- he tended to imprison the dorks he understood more than the dorks he didn't.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: through my (admittedly inexpert) lens, d00d loox like archaetypical lion trainer who served up many a cookie but neglected entirely the whip
mircea_popescu: ceausescu who didn't touch pantsuitism was certainly a better deadman than the imaginary one who had.
mircea_popescu: so yes, the principal driver behind " very little 'prophylactic' depantsuiting in his reign" (which is factual) was... very little capacity to conceptualize the pantsuitism. because of the EXACT http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-12#1901577 thought process (though he's not nearly as elegant in his thinking, nor did he have enough sense to keep a fucking blog, so as to GET this elegant.)
mircea_popescu: and sure, it does make sense. but THEY make no sense to him whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: and to him, this makes sense. "what sort of moron would you have to be, to not understand than 100`000 bakers' for 100`000 places that had no bakers' since aurelian's withdrawal is way the fuck a bigger deal than 5 homos upset because nobody is using the right zhernouns."
mircea_popescu: so yes, the building of bakers' in ~all villages, so the dorks can have day-old bread rather than week-old bread, is an important point.
mircea_popescu: the guy points out that almost all villages got bakers' built. this is factually true, and important -- gotta understand romania is TODAY, and STILL, the one country in europe where 1/3 or so of schools have no running water.
asciilifeform had in fact read the trial log
mircea_popescu: the communications breakdown during the ~only almost-meaningful attempt during "trial" is imo relevant. looky : http://trilema.com/2011/procesul-ceausescu/#selection-665.0-665.87
asciilifeform: nowadays any mcd-eater can become this, eh. but as i understand then it took some pull, to wangle the calories
mircea_popescu: (remarkably pantsuit, the fat orc, btw. synchronicity to a t, including "russian secret services!!!" wank while it was still fashionable in washington, last narrative gasp before teh dnc died.
asciilifeform: tov. c was quite unlike mircea_popescu in 1 important way , tho -- he neglected the disease until was unmanageable, was - near as i can tell - pretty soft (vs, e.g., stalin), very little 'prophylactic' depantsuiting in his reign
a111: Logged on 2019-03-13 15:04 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they shot the shoemaker, ironically enough, because he was excessively like me for their taste. their principal objections, unvoiced but truthfully and authentically reconstructed, were in order that 1) he sent them to do manual labour, in complete disdain of their self-identification ("we're intellectuals!!!") ; 2) he was unimpressed by the rest of their http://trilema.com/2016/the-next-generation/ hallucinatio
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-13#1901718 << that's exactly my reading of the events. ( and dun fughet to add, he, ohnoez, made'em pay the debt!111 )
mircea_popescu: even MORE ironically, one can quite say [www.stirimondene.eu/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/alina_mungiu_pippidi_10197000.jpg][this] was the face of the opposition. (chick married that dork, hence the double name.)
mircea_popescu: didn't love the hippos for the special and unique snowflake of a woman they really were ~deep~ inside.
mircea_popescu: the only truthful expression of history is to say nicolae ceausescu was the first mayogender victim.
mircea_popescu: ns, to the degree of not providing them with the requisite aspirational goods to enact the pretense and 3) he was ~critical~. there's even a moment at the "meeting with the writers" where he points out that he's not really taking them seriously, but maybe one day they manage to build an intellectual system that can take his criticism.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they shot the shoemaker, ironically enough, because he was excessively like me for their taste. their principal objections, unvoiced but truthfully and authentically reconstructed, were in order that 1) he sent them to do manual labour, in complete disdain of their self-identification ("we're intellectuals!!!") ; 2) he was unimpressed by the rest of their http://trilema.com/2016/the-next-generation/ hallucinatio
asciilifeform: spyked: seems like the joke is on the folx who shot the shoemaker , who ~maybe~-sent police if he thought you had particular kind of bits on paper , and then spread legs for nato reich, who send police if they think you have ~another~ kind of bits, on yer hdd..
asciilifeform: 'Welcome to freenode. To protect the network all new connections will be scanned for vulnerabilities' << lol!!
spyked: (to elaborate: high-speed internet "outside of ro" was accessible mainly through uni pipes until at least cca 2003 or so; in particular in upb, most of the networking infrastructure projects were at the time due to one eduard andrei, meanwhile forgotten by the interwebs)
a111: Logged on 2019-03-11 16:29 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-11#1901354 << spyked - i was thinking, 'let's make torrent', then realized that torrent is some (afaik) largely unexplored heathenware, possibly due for a civilized replacement. might be worth expanding on if anyone has free hands.
spyked: returning briefly to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-11#1901372 : back in the early 2000s, most file transfers in ro were done via local 'dc++' hubs, the largest hosted in uni politehnica of bucharest campus. wasn't all that horrible, with the exception that orcs had no notion of wot, so they were all suprised when police started raiding the dorms (accompanied by "anti-piracy campaign" orchestra, of course)
a111: Logged on 2019-03-12 23:41 mircea_popescu: fwis, trinque already got one being tortured for the past six months ; depending on other workload mebbe BingoBoingo or spyked feel like putting one up also (but very much do not fall into the tarpit of chasing butterflies, from one to the next and catching none, fellas).
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-12#1901666 <-- added this to the list and will prioritize if it becomes an urgent matter
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-12#1901621 <-- iirc they already have (too many?) servers residing in ro, might be why they don't accept any new ones
spyked: mircea_popescu et al: http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/#comment-128290
BingoBoingo: I'm back from the walk. I have an "alfajor oreo" in front of me, and I the retardartion of the cunt snot pile still pisses me off.
trinque: in my brief dive I have yet to find evidence that anyone on xmpp talks about anything other than xmpp
BingoBoingo going for a walk to unload this shit from the head
mircea_popescu: eventually they did, hence google ended up stuck with it.
BingoBoingo: For something named internet RELAY chat... the docs make it seem everyone is afraid of adding new relays. Imagine if the email folks in the 80-90s instead broke to this level of paranoia
BingoBoingo: <mod6> i'll also state that mine was never huge either. had ~2-3 channels, ~20-25 users. the biggest thing I recall was just having enough b/w so peeps stay connected. << They all want pipe
BingoBoingo: But as awful as IRC documentation is the XMPP thing... I tried to read some explanations of what XMPP is and how it works, but the 2004 era buzzwords and "keep updated" stuff is thick
BingoBoingo: I feel much dumber and angrier than I did when seeing the news of Freenode retardation
mircea_popescu: you know, to revisit http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-12#1901543 -- one could at least learn whether i should provision for ram or cpu!!!
mod6: i'll also state that mine was never huge either. had ~2-3 channels, ~20-25 users. the biggest thing I recall was just having enough b/w so peeps stay connected.
mircea_popescu: trinque in your experience what's the bottleneck, ram ? cpu ?
mircea_popescu: so basically the offer for ircnetowkrs is "we're bringing three boxes"
mircea_popescu: i happen to think this is a thing they got right (accidentally, and for purely historical reasons).
a111: Logged on 2019-03-12 22:09 trinque: hanbot: just stood it up for the sake of exactly this impending need
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-12#1901578 << I'll see what I can do about standing up an ircd sometime this week. It'll take a bit to lock down the conf of the thing, but eventually, if all looks good, we should be able to link up our nodes, trinque.
mircea_popescu: well, irc networks's federating's a five minutes config file settings, to list your ircd among the rest
trinque: in my case, the protocol side of the thing is decoupled from my services such that switching protocols is about a week or two of work.
trinque: I'll go poking around in public jabber servers and see how lively they are
mircea_popescu: trinque well, we're "married" in the sense that all extant infrastructure's written against it.
mod6: For what I can see, I'm not so certain that we're married to IRC, but I suspect that our bots/loggers are a bit more closely wed to the protocol.
mod6: I myself used to run an ircd-hybrid, but that was srsly like 20 years ago. So I'm not sure how much active knowledge I have on the subject, currently. Anyway, whatever or where ever we go, it's just a temporary place until we have gossipd.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-12 18:43 hanbot: http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/ << i'm for moving, seeing no compelling reason to stay. pinging asciilifeform ave1 ben_vulpes bingoboingo danielpbarron diana_coman lobbes mod6 phf spyked trinque for inputs.
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-12#1901514 << I'm of the thinking we should move too; however, I've been thinking the same thing all day, 'where?'. Looks like the court is investigating some options for existing networks, as well as considering one of our own.
mircea_popescu: fwis, trinque already got one being tortured for the past six months ; depending on other workload mebbe BingoBoingo or spyked feel like putting one up also (but very much do not fall into the tarpit of chasing butterflies, from one to the next and catching none, fellas).
asciilifeform: i'ma off to debuggery room then, bbl
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform far from it. you do your thing, other people'll do this thing.
asciilifeform: but so far this one's in the lead, i.e. box actually answered
mircea_popescu: talk to Flusher / beorn then
asciilifeform: then went to 'ircnet', www last updated in... 2004. and none but the u.s. relays seem to answer
mircea_popescu: the correct approach would be to go in their admin channels whatever they are, talk to the ops, see who would welcome more servers.
asciilifeform: other than 'not fleanode'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: EFnet doesn't have passwords for IRC users. Just their forum tards. EFnet doesn't provide auth at all.
mircea_popescu: whatever, the irc network forum. wtf.
asciilifeform: ( and maybe even then healthiest horse, for all i know the others same but not reported )
asciilifeform: meanwhile, examining horses in the glue factory, efnet yields https://archive.is/bEyLF#selection-161.1-179.19
mircea_popescu: but the idea is, come up with a network by tomorrow. that work ?
mircea_popescu: anyways, imo the matter still stands. originally my idea was that phf will put up a drawing of a dwarf with a humongo hammer at the close of the 2nd chapter in the tmsr saga (as per last words of http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/#comment-128287 ), but i guess instead it'll be a ... large spider ? wtf.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik they autorotate'em ( by what satanic principle, i do not know at all )
mircea_popescu: but no, check it out, from http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/#selection-27.0-59.0 to http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/dmzjQ/?raw=true in six hours!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at first i thought you went through the list of old dns responses/old servers and fished out one inexplicably not on mine
mircea_popescu: dawg, check out their new dns!
BingoBoingo: Well, been reading docs. EFnet has few. These networks appear to in fact promise different things
asciilifeform: per my lights, they're all ~identical
asciilifeform: trinque: i dun know this for a fact; maybe simply spat at the string of barf and stopped for nao
asciilifeform: hanbot: i'm with trinque on this one -- if we confine the thread to mircea_popescu's www, it will be a very slow thread. i do hope that he finds a working fleanode box to connect to in the meanwhile.
trinque: absent the "this will be somehow instructive" there's the practical need for infrastructure with which I 100% agree
trinque: hanbot: realtime digestion then proposal in my case.
asciilifeform: hanbot: i have 0 to disagree in re the scheme mircea_popescu described on his www . it's exactly what oughta be sewed.
asciilifeform: but would rather not suffer illusions re 'this is a step to designing gossipd'
asciilifeform: having said this, i'm all for setting up a not-fleanode . and will put relay on dulap as soon as the matter of 'which ircd' is settled.
asciilifeform: there's a severe narrowing of perspective that almost always comes from crawling around inside mine
asciilifeform: so ftr i will have to disagree with hanbot , in that imho coal miner is ~not~ the best geologist.
asciilifeform: ( and it took asciilifeform, in turn, 10+yrs , measured from time of 1st thinking about subj, to get there )
asciilifeform: and then try and object.
asciilifeform: the ~damage~ ( and imho is just about as factual as radiation damage ) from being a programmer, is that familiarity with crud , leads to swallowing, and eventually you learn to live with things that by all rights no one oughta live with. witness how many people think that it is acceptable for a program to sometimes crash, for instance.
asciilifeform: ( and if there's 1 thing there is no shortage of in the sad monkey house that passes for kompyooting, it's 'antipattern' -- there's enuff that 'you can eat it with arse' )
asciilifeform: sadly troo. otherwise microshit escapees would make for brilliant teachers of the art.
trinque: the upstack claim was that this will help design gossipd. *only* as antipattern and study of antipatterns does not by itself yield sense.
hanbot: trinque: okay, but by the same logic people shouldn't implement loggers or whatever else. if it's not useful for you, it's still useful for them.
trinque: it's all the same work
trinque: hanbot: just stood it up for the sake of exactly this impending need
hanbot: you mean other than bash, right? :D
hanbot: and as to microsoft specifically, i do trust your opinion on microsoft above the opinion of microsoft of an imaginary asciilifeform that never touched it. this is exactly what i meant about finding out whether there's even anything there.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 22:12 mircea_popescu: "most people, when faced with a problem, will not investigate the cause of the problem, but will instead want to solve it because the problem is actually in the way of something more important than figuring out why something suddenly got in their way out of nowhere. if you are a programmer, you may reach for perl at this point, and perl can remove your problem. happy, you go on, but find another problem blocking your way, r
asciilifeform: ~100% of the problems i learned to solve, only exist on acct of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-04#1892448
trinque: hanbot: yeah, I'm already running an IRC server elsewhere. there is no high magic in it, only low trivia.
asciilifeform: fwiw i dun feel like my many yrs of setting up multi-MB balls of c ??? liquishit on various net-facing boxen, taught me ~anyffin that'd be applicable on hypothetical sane comp
hanbot: well...it's a large pile of strange that none of us seriously delved into. iono what's in there. do you know what's in there?
asciilifeform: hanbot: but was curious whether you had moar specific notion, or simply gut feeling (nuffin wrong with gut, imho)
hanbot: you will learn not what you know you do not know, but what you do not know you do not know. and, most important, whether there even is something there you do not know or not.
trinque: eh this isn't going to teach anyone anything they wouldn't have learned running any other server farm. I and I'm sure several people already do, or have.
asciilifeform: hanbot: this is fair enuff, and mircea_popescu wrote at length on the subj.
hanbot: asciilifeform, you have a very narrowly construed "explain to me what the learning benefit of X is". this is not how my life experience worked out; if it were possible to explain to the ignorant the benefits of education, education itself would work very differently from how it actually works.
asciilifeform: ( and specifically, why not also 'i'd trust operator who also had in the past set up winblowz 2012' then )
hanbot: asciilifeform: i'd trust a gossipd operator that'd also operated the ircd bridge above one who hadn't, other things being comparable.
asciilifeform: ( tbf, this was after his 1st 20yrs -- 100% wheelbarrow. during his 2nd 20y, he learned to stick thermometers in arses, became 'medic' , hence lived )
asciilifeform: fella did 40+yrs in gulag. then got out, and was often asked by curious folx, 'what did you learn to do'
BingoBoingo: There's likely logistics lessons to be learned. Timings necessary to keep conenctions open and other tcp weird.
asciilifeform: for instance, in saeculum i've set up microshit boxen of various sorts. and could not honestly say that i learned from the experience anything applicable on sane-people planet.
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/03/local-rag-britain-just-leaving-their-undersea-cable-landing-sites-open-and-unguarded/ << Qntra -- Local Rag: Britain Just Leaving Their Undersea Cable Landing Sites Open And Unguarded
asciilifeform: it isn't even that i dun think it's worth doing ( fleanode only ever gets ~moar~ rotten, and never less ) . but imho the cost is prolly not recoverable ( in the engineering sense ) .
asciilifeform: ( e.g. the problems of mitigating tcp ddos are irrelevant to proper udpistic gossipd. and ditto authentication of handles. )
asciilifeform: indeed will learn what the troubles are in practice. only i suspect that 0 of it will have any bearing on the gossipd side.
diana_coman: what the troubles are in practice; note that I'm not talking about "bake glue" but rather a full run servers
diana_coman: at any rate, the move + multi-network wrapper approach seems to me like an excellent way for one to learn and be in a prime position for gossipd really
asciilifeform: folx without lymphocytes ~will~ succumb to fungi & errything else under the sun, it dun matter what they do
asciilifeform: rather than sumthing particular to irc.
BingoBoingo: Alarm's been tripped. Warning light stays lit until every Buckingham Palace occupant takes a traffic cone up the ass.
BingoBoingo: Well, they had the good sense to keep it linked on their front page after the Snowden leaks made it to "GHCQ fucking with IRC"
asciilifeform: ~those~ succumb to fart in the wind, not even speaking of 'attack'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 2014. and imho sounds like less of 'attack on irc' and moar of 'attack' on wotless heathens / allcomerists
asciilifeform: diana_coman et al : i'm also not 100% convinced that the proposed multi-network thing is actually less of a nut to crack than adult gossipd. ( consider, how wouldja do authentication ? the extant ircd's support either '~nuffin, anyone can hijack session' or ssltardism . )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: the central headache afaik is http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/#comment-128269 , i.e. the various nets have an idjit user lock-in thing going
a111: Logged on 2019-03-12 18:43 hanbot: http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/ << i'm for moving, seeing no compelling reason to stay. pinging asciilifeform ave1 ben_vulpes bingoboingo danielpbarron diana_coman lobbes mod6 phf spyked trinque for inputs.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-12#1901514 -> I'm for moving; the only reason for staying was being busy with tending to other fires that burnt worse but freenode seems to be burning worse and worse lately anyway; a multi-network bridge sounds best in my opinion but I don't really know how much work needs to be put in to get that.
asciilifeform: ( from user pov either , they also all seem use slightly variant authentication schemes )
asciilifeform: even if 'let's use conventional ircd' -- the q remains , which one -- afaik they aint actually fully interoperable from peering pov
a111: Logged on 2018-08-04 22:05 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: iirc i proposed at one time an intermediate item on the way to proper gossipd ( 'serpent'-ciphered tunneler to connect coupla ircd instances to each other, and ditto for users ( get otp cookie a la deedbot, get a key that's good for 1 tcp connect ) but so far instead followed mircea_popescu's advice re not wasting sweat on such a thing, but pushing with ffa so as to get with what to gossipd.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ( in linked thrd ) dug up a coupla possible 'wheres'. but imho oughta begin with gluing together small net ( with boxen in piz ~and elsewhere~ ) and ~then~ bridge it to public nets.
a111: Logged on 2018-08-04 22:08 asciilifeform: this being said, i personally would prefer exodus from fleanode to happen on our schedule, rather than in the wake of a catastrophic drop of it into complete unusability.
asciilifeform: hanbot: imho oughta move ( as i said in the past, e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-04#1839469 ) , q is 'where'
hanbot: http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/ << i'm for moving, seeing no compelling reason to stay. pinging asciilifeform ave1 ben_vulpes bingoboingo danielpbarron diana_coman lobbes mod6 phf spyked trinque for inputs.
BingoBoingo: Gotta take notes while the reading is fresh
deedbot: BingoBoingo rated princessnell -2 << https://archive.is/mHZsU#selection-52.0-85.11 << After contact with the early proto-Republic, decided to give freely her content to the enemy
BingoBoingo: !!rate princessnell -2 https://archive.is/mHZsU#selection-52.0-85.11 << After contact with the early proto-Republic, decided to give freely her content to the enemy
BingoBoingo: !!rate princess nell -2 https://archive.is/mHZsU#selection-52.0-85.11 << After contact with the early proto-Republic, decided to give freely her content to the enemy
BingoBoingo: Well, gotta do something during the waiting.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: eh folx are still waiting for the vid from the pentagon parking lot cams on '9/11'
trinque: interesting question, what happens when I crank the parallelism to 11, go find out why dont you.
trinque: no, I'm not saying "this ritual is how you avoid the bad". I'm saying that cranking the number of parallel jobs will reveal whether builds rely on implicit race-condition ordering, vs having been written correctly with the whole dependency graph of the build expressed in makefile.
PeterL: so you mean it is less likely to have bugs pop up if I lower the number?
deedbot: PeterL rated phf 1 << excellent log, vtools - btcbase.org/log barksinthewind.com
PeterL: trinque: I am looking at building Cuntoo. Quick question: would there be anything detrimental to having MAKEOPTS set too high? (I see it is set to -j8 at one point in the script, but I only have 2 processors?)
nicoleci: yeah i can see that how useless to entertain the past. even so, not sure on the resolve of managing the abundance of how much i need to learn and how little i know.
trinque: didn't say forgive. more a comment on whether the mind dwells on a missed opportunity to strike yesterday than on striking today.
trinque: can yeah, hate 'em in the present frame. nobody's taking me back to high-and-20 to could've-been-moar in an imaginary branch.