trinque: this kind of bitterness imho is of the "nose to spite face" variety.
trinque: can yeah, hate 'em in the present frame. nobody's taking me back to high-and-20 to could've-been-moar in an imaginary branch.
trinque: didn't say forgive. more a comment on whether the mind dwells on a missed opportunity to strike yesterday than on striking today.
nicoleci: yeah i can see that how useless to entertain the past. even so, not sure on the resolve of managing the abundance of how much i need to learn and how little i know.
PeterL: trinque: I am looking at building Cuntoo. Quick question: would there be anything detrimental to having MAKEOPTS set too high? (I see it is set to -j8 at one point in the script, but I only have 2 processors?)
PeterL: ah, thanks asciilifeform.
PeterL: !!v 182852A1C11CD09E84AF66632D1473BE7829A00F43B490203B0DD19A8D41185A
deedbot: PeterL rated diana_coman 1 << Wrote eucrypt, keccac implementation, etc. - ossasepia.com
PeterL: !!v E9385FF7FBE438EA5E1BDAD216EEC207E80CFDFB9CC28DF359E4E38F196EA67E
deedbot: PeterL rated phf 1 << excellent log, vtools - btcbase.org/log barksinthewind.com
trinque: PeterL: you'll also potentially find out where parallelism bugs exists in ebuilds
PeterL: so you mean it is less likely to have bugs pop up if I lower the number?
trinque: no, I'm not saying "this ritual is how you avoid the bad". I'm saying that cranking the number of parallel jobs will reveal whether builds rely on implicit race-condition ordering, vs having been written correctly with the whole dependency graph of the build expressed in makefile.
trinque: interesting question, what happens when I crank the parallelism to 11, go find out why dont you.
BingoBoingo: "El impacto fue registrado por las cámaras de seguridad" << It is a great shame that video isn't out yet
BingoBoingo: Well, gotta do something during the waiting.
BingoBoingo: !!v 9558A5ECF5CAA3C1E040CBA3E8BAABAD6EE7D18B33B3253CC0F61B0992A07B75
BingoBoingo: Gotta take notes while the reading is fresh
a111: Logged on 2018-08-04 22:08 asciilifeform: this being said, i personally would prefer exodus from fleanode to happen on our schedule, rather than in the wake of a catastrophic drop of it into complete unusability.
a111: Logged on 2018-08-04 22:05 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: iirc i proposed at one time an intermediate item on the way to proper gossipd ( 'serpent'-ciphered tunneler to connect coupla ircd instances to each other, and ditto for users ( get otp cookie a la deedbot, get a key that's good for 1 tcp connect ) but so far instead followed mircea_popescu's advice re not wasting sweat on such a thing, but pushing with ffa so as to get with what to gossipd.
diana_coman:
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-12#1901514 -> I'm for moving; the only reason for staying was being busy with tending to other fires that burnt worse but freenode seems to be burning worse and worse lately anyway; a multi-network bridge sounds best in my opinion but I don't really know how much work needs to be put in to get that.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-12 18:43 hanbot:
http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/ << i'm for moving, seeing no compelling reason to stay. pinging asciilifeform ave1 ben_vulpes bingoboingo danielpbarron diana_coman lobbes mod6 phf spyked trinque for inputs.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-12 06:10 trinque: on second thought, lets not go to efnet. 'tis a silly place.
BingoBoingo: Well, they had the good sense to keep it linked on their front page after the Snowden leaks made it to "GHCQ fucking with IRC"
BingoBoingo: Alarm's been tripped. Warning light stays lit until every Buckingham Palace occupant takes a traffic cone up the ass.
diana_coman: at any rate, the move + multi-network wrapper approach seems to me like an excellent way for one to learn and be in a prime position for gossipd really
diana_coman: what the troubles are in practice; note that I'm not talking about "bake glue" but rather a full run servers
diana_coman: asciilifeform, do you mean that a person who made and ran this multi-bridge infrastructure across how many irc networks has gained no useful knowledge for running a gossipd-based service?
BingoBoingo: There's likely logistics lessons to be learned. Timings necessary to keep conenctions open and other tcp weird.
hanbot: asciilifeform: i'd trust a gossipd operator that'd also operated the ircd bridge above one who hadn't, other things being comparable.
hanbot: asciilifeform, you have a very narrowly construed "explain to me what the learning benefit of X is". this is not how my life experience worked out; if it were possible to explain to the ignorant the benefits of education, education itself would work very differently from how it actually works.
trinque: eh this isn't going to teach anyone anything they wouldn't have learned running any other server farm. I and I'm sure several people already do, or have.
hanbot: you will learn not what you know you do not know, but what you do not know you do not know. and, most important, whether there even is something there you do not know or not.
hanbot: well...it's a large pile of strange that none of us seriously delved into. iono what's in there. do you know what's in there?
trinque: hanbot: yeah, I'm already running an IRC server elsewhere. there is no high magic in it, only low trivia.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-04 22:12 mircea_popescu: "most people, when faced with a problem, will not investigate the cause of the problem, but will instead want to solve it because the problem is actually in the way of something more important than figuring out why something suddenly got in their way out of nowhere. if you are a programmer, you may reach for perl at this point, and perl can remove your problem. happy, you go on, but find another problem blocking your way, r
hanbot: and as to microsoft specifically, i do trust your opinion on microsoft above the opinion of microsoft of an imaginary asciilifeform that never touched it. this is exactly what i meant about finding out whether there's even anything there.
hanbot: trinque: is it like a gameserver or something?
hanbot: you mean other than bash, right? :D
trinque: hanbot: just stood it up for the sake of exactly this impending need
hanbot: better man, yes, but not necessarily better x86-ologist.
trinque: again, only trivia involved. I've also run clusters of postgres, fleets of webservers, etc etc etc
a111: Logged on 2018-07-21 21:18 trinque: in compounding ironies, I stood up my own ircd_ratbox earlier out of curiosity
hanbot: trinque: okay, but by the same logic people shouldn't implement loggers or whatever else. if it's not useful for you, it's still useful for them.
hanbot: in the sense that at some point they've gotta do something
trinque: people are not this undifferentiated category. yes for students, running an ircd is a great idea, like bots or w/e else.
trinque: the upstack claim was that this will help design gossipd. *only* as antipattern and study of antipatterns does not by itself yield sense.
hanbot: all this might even be true.
hanbot: prolly should put it in a trilema comment tho'.
trinque: hanbot: realtime digestion then proposal in my case.
trinque: absent the "this will be somehow instructive" there's the practical need for infrastructure with which I 100% agree
trinque: ah, I hadn't even realized he couldn't connect *at all*
BingoBoingo: Well, been reading docs. EFnet has few. These networks appear to in fact promise different things
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at first i thought you went through the list of old dns responses/old servers and fished out one inexplicably not on mine
mircea_popescu: anyways. im pretty sure this wasn't answering ~six hours ago.
mircea_popescu: but the idea is, come up with a network by tomorrow. that work ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: EFnet doesn't have passwords for IRC users. Just their forum tards. EFnet doesn't provide auth at all.
mircea_popescu: the correct approach would be to go in their admin channels whatever they are, talk to the ops, see who would welcome more servers.
hanbot aims nailgun @ quakenet
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't get it, you object to antique motd ?
mircea_popescu: and incidentally! shouldn't you be ffaing or something ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform far from it. you do your thing, other people'll do this thing.
mircea_popescu: fwis, trinque already got one being tortured for the past six months ; depending on other workload mebbe BingoBoingo or spyked feel like putting one up also (but very much do not fall into the tarpit of chasing butterflies, from one to the next and catching none, fellas).
mod6:
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-12#1901514 << I'm of the thinking we should move too; however, I've been thinking the same thing all day, 'where?'. Looks like the court is investigating some options for existing networks, as well as considering one of our own.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-12 18:43 hanbot:
http://trilema.com/2019/the-freenode-issue/ << i'm for moving, seeing no compelling reason to stay. pinging asciilifeform ave1 ben_vulpes bingoboingo danielpbarron diana_coman lobbes mod6 phf spyked trinque for inputs.
mod6: I myself used to run an ircd-hybrid, but that was srsly like 20 years ago. So I'm not sure how much active knowledge I have on the subject, currently. Anyway, whatever or where ever we go, it's just a temporary place until we have gossipd.
trinque: this is going to sound wacky, but how married are we to IRC? xmpp federates far easier than IRC.
mod6: I could stand one up somewhere, my time is a bit limited this week. Might have some time this weekend.
trinque: I've run an ejabberd before too, quite familiar.
mod6: For what I can see, I'm not so certain that we're married to IRC, but I suspect that our bots/loggers are a bit more closely wed to the protocol.
mircea_popescu: trinque well, we're "married" in the sense that all extant infrastructure's written against it.
trinque: I'll go poking around in public jabber servers and see how lively they are
trinque: in my case, the protocol side of the thing is decoupled from my services such that switching protocols is about a week or two of work.
mircea_popescu: well, irc networks's federating's a five minutes config file settings, to list your ircd among the rest
mod6:
http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-12#1901578 << I'll see what I can do about standing up an ircd sometime this week. It'll take a bit to lock down the conf of the thing, but eventually, if all looks good, we should be able to link up our nodes, trinque.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-12 22:09 trinque: hanbot: just stood it up for the sake of exactly this impending need
mircea_popescu: i happen to think this is a thing they got right (accidentally, and for purely historical reasons).
mircea_popescu will stand up a muscovy server for hanbot too, let no oppinion, no matter how earnestly held or freely expressed, pass unpunished.
trinque: sure, if we're talking about just using own IRC network, trivial. if we're talking about peering into an established net, it'll involve some committee of dipshits assenting
mircea_popescu: so basically the offer for ircnetowkrs is "we're bringing three boxes"
mircea_popescu: trinque in your experience what's the bottleneck, ram ? cpu ?
trinque: never had a large IRC server, but can't imagine a lot of state in RAM per user.
mod6: i'll also state that mine was never huge either. had ~2-3 channels, ~20-25 users. the biggest thing I recall was just having enough b/w so peeps stay connected.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-12 20:32 diana_coman: learn != reuse code or even tech
BingoBoingo: I have spent a lot of years reading very stupid things, but reading docs to try to distinguish IRC networks today...
BingoBoingo: I feel much dumber and angrier than I did when seeing the news of Freenode retardation
BingoBoingo: But as awful as IRC documentation is the XMPP thing... I tried to read some explanations of what XMPP is and how it works, but the 2004 era buzzwords and "keep updated" stuff is thick
BingoBoingo: <mod6> i'll also state that mine was never huge either. had ~2-3 channels, ~20-25 users. the biggest thing I recall was just having enough b/w so peeps stay connected. << They all want pipe
BingoBoingo: For something named internet RELAY chat... the docs make it seem everyone is afraid of adding new relays. Imagine if the email folks in the 80-90s instead broke to this level of paranoia
mircea_popescu: eventually they did, hence google ended up stuck with it.
BingoBoingo going for a walk to unload this shit from the head
trinque: in my brief dive I have yet to find evidence that anyone on xmpp talks about anything other than xmpp
BingoBoingo: I'm back from the walk. I have an "alfajor oreo" in front of me, and I the retardartion of the cunt snot pile still pisses me off.