mircea_popescu: they are also indescribably fucking cute. but w/e, i have complex demands, we see.
mircea_popescu: they have cvasi-sedan ones, doesn't have to be a truck
asciilifeform: on the terrain
mircea_popescu: well, here too, kinda how rocks end up in the way : mudslide washes them in, then rain washes the mud. sorta like fractioned distillation
asciilifeform: in ru shite road, but usually on acct of mud liquishit, rather than stones
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, no doubt aided by relative roadlessness of mother russia.
asciilifeform: funnily enuff, afaik sovok autos, which had just about erry other possib. fuckup, did not suffer from this one
asciilifeform: ( incidentally not unlike the proverbial ipnoje , which not ~only~ has to cost 2k to +ev, but to be ~unrepairable and glass cracks if you look at it sideways )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, point in case : the undercarriage transmission/engine cover was banged AT LEAST ONE HUNDRED TIMES. so the car goes "bong!" and your head shakes and you're "omfg, the 7 (seven!!! point five!!!) liters of expensive oil are now on the ground.
mircea_popescu: so they buy shitty cars and live unhappy domestic lives.
asciilifeform: ( usd printolade press birthed not only 100k auto that's 90% plastic , but even this is not enuff to make their manufacture +ev , they gotta nao also turn'em into chump milking machines by ~design~ )
mircea_popescu: there's this purely idiotarian usgistani view of "oh, young woman always better than old wife". really, bitch ? cuz why, cuz the precious cuntlet can't take without breaking down a 1% of what the tried and tested old ho can swallow unblinking ?
mircea_popescu: i do not believe any same-year made car during any of the years involved could have survived as a replacement. (i don't even take the newer / better ones for this sort of treck -- and tbh, i do not respect them NEARLY as much. i grew to love the cheap unassuming old car on the merits, which is to say what it'll take. like any woman.
asciilifeform: imho buying 5k box and then finding 5k of fixable defect -- beats shit out of buying 100k box and then finding that whole thing is 1 100k-weighing defect of the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-15#1902627 variety
mircea_popescu: except poor dood's spent MORE than that fixing his toyota so as to get the riteve hence. vindicating the point that... hm. white devil!
a111: Logged on 2019-01-16 15:58 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i have the converse problem. alternator dies on road, /me takes car back to (otherwise very competent, and very able) independent mechanic who charged 75 an hour for tools and labour to find what needs changing and then install mp's parts (75 CENTS!!!). "why the fuck was not this on the bill ?" "ah, it wasn't really broken yet, still hung on a thread".
mircea_popescu: so then was stuck discovering defects for half a year / training locals to sanity because http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-16#1887591 ; and stuck paying for parts / organizing imports / whatever, to the tune of like 3k, ie, years' local salary. which seemed to vindicate the "you were scammed" pov.
asciilifeform: i'd expect on the spot, rather than mircea_popescu brought it in suitcase from argentina, lol
mircea_popescu: haha yes, you know i got it on the spot ? self-same groundskeeper, "but you know the car ?" "nope" "So you went with mechanic ?" "umm, no." "but... so you got scammed ?" "i guess we see"
mircea_popescu: more like 10 including all the repairs it needed.
mircea_popescu: the cheap one wasn't expensive at all, and yes worth every god damned penny.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sounds like the german is pretty neat machine. and iirc mircea_popescu said he bought it for only ~lispmachine's worth, even
mircea_popescu: i think in principle the "all tests failed" printout would be 10-20k itemized lines.
mircea_popescu: they check everyhing. (no joke, either, ticos are a serious folk). brakes, direction, i even get warnings that the front seat headrest is unattached (i keep it out deliberately, so as not to obstruct my front view)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, they have this testing office here, they give you a stamp that the car is up to spect technically, good for 1 year. (good measure too, the tubs these people drove before it... jesus f. even now you see trucks dead in middle of onramp cuz unmaintained engine finally croaked etc)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, 30% grades ; crazy winds ; drove it through sand and through a river bed i'm too lazy rto get the link of and and and
asciilifeform: tho then again mircea_popescu did say 'dumps fluids' lol
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what period toyota ? cuz if it's 2010s with debug port, then noshit it'll generate 'long list of requisites' erry time gets plugged in
mircea_popescu: is 2nd pass of the same... it just... he's visibly still dfigesting it.
mircea_popescu: bartholomew is driving my groundskeeper fellow to the brink of madness. it is the SECOND consecutive technical inspection it passed without any repairs, AT ALL. the poor guy, drives a cheap toyota, comes back from trhe test with lengthly lists of requisites EVERY time. last year he was very put off by the "pass on 1st try" thing, especially as the year prior he had seen the thing dump its fluids and have to be toed. but th
asciilifeform wonders what, specifically, eats cars in mircea_popescustan. gotta be the mud, the humidity, cuz it aint salt ( where snows -- salt )
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> it si, it is. he's just being mean. << Only halfway. The other half is derechos as in derechos por cerdos humanos
mircea_popescu: besides, duke's the lands' foremost university of left turns.
BingoBoingo: Under the current criminal code, that might be interpreted as a sentence of community service with the guilty assigned to judge in order to work off his debt to society
mircea_popescu: "go ye in county for contempt and you can get out when some other judge says so, cuz i ain't gonna."
mircea_popescu: i'd put the lawyer in jail, if i were stuck judging this thing.
mircea_popescu: this might be the most retarded case i read this year.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> wtf, and these tards are actually lawyers now ? << Worse, graduates del la facultad de Derecho!
BingoBoingo: Typical rates listed on the whoring portals are 1000-3000 pesos (30-100 USD) hourly. In practice...
mircea_popescu: like fucking children exactly, "the precarious chair tower seemed solid to me on the basis of it standing, why did it fall over ?!?!?!"
mircea_popescu: wtf, and these tards are actually lawyers now ?
BingoBoingo: 33 to the dollar
mircea_popescu: when the fuck's a whore in that shithole made 10k, let alone 100k. or what is the peso, 8 to the dollar or so ?
BingoBoingo: You know, the sort of thought patterns that drive prison lawyers incapable of keeping themselves out of prison
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i thought 'possession is 9/10th of the law'(tm) lol
asciilifeform: ematician. But I always get the right answers, you see."'
asciilifeform: '"Yes, I know," said the little technician earnestly, "but I start by saying seven times three because that's the way it works. Now seven times three is twenty-one." "And how do you know that?" asked the congressman. "I just remember it. It's always twenty-one on the computer. I've checked it any number of times." "That doesn't mean it always will be, though, does it?" said the congressman. "Maybe not," stammered Aub. "I'm not a math
mircea_popescu: gifts from the hand, in civil law, that aren't in possession aren't title.
a111: 11 results for "the feeling of power", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=the%20feeling%20of%20power
asciilifeform: !#s the feeling of power
asciilifeform: afaik it's teachable like any other mechanical trick
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik lehrer was laffing at the notion that 'new notation will cure all'
mircea_popescu: maybe it's just me being jewish or w/e, but honestly, so what if "that 1 in the 10s is really 10 ones, and if it were in the 64s it'd really be 8 8s" ?
mircea_popescu: fwiw, since it was mentioned : i don't see what's so scandalous with the "new arithmetic" whereby one explicits the powers rather than whatever historical approach.
asciilifeform: i.e. all electrically-permitted inputs map onto a permitted 2 .. n - 1 , and those who fit into the range to begin with, map directly ( others map via modular reduction )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, for instance, proceeding through analogy with what with did to the e's, "must be this many bits"
asciilifeform: ( observe what asciilifeform's m-r does with the witness input )
asciilifeform: i can't think of any reason to constrict the witness pool any further than m-r per se constrains it
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, point being, can't just take the 2nd half. yes, start at 2.
mircea_popescu: the other useful rtidbit that came out of this, you came up with : new tmsr.ent element, which yes should be done.
mircea_popescu: the only practically useful tidbit i have is "according to math arcana, witnesses absolutely must come from 1, 2^n rather than 2^n-1, 2^n ; notwithstanding the latter might look "thicker"
asciilifeform: before thread exhausts its fuel, asciilifeform would like to hear whether mircea_popescu has actionable 'nah do it like ~so~' for m-r, or only the 'memento mori'
mircea_popescu is quite tickled that the ready reference of the issue is titled things with squares and morals and pornos. considering the context in which i needed it lo SIX years later...
a111: Logged on 2019-03-28 14:39 mircea_popescu: atm i am unaware how one would answer this ; but if any brins are in the audience by all means, even an unsuccessful ~meaningful~ attempt at tackling this question of our times is liable to make new math.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, that much is true, and yes, this 2nd link you unearth is also very likely (at least as far as i know) true : can't have at the same time what we discuss here and http://trilema.com/2013/squares-do-morals-a-porno/#selection-475.0-475.334 ; therefore i said http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-28#1905411
mircea_popescu: therefore, the previous class of specialist egg layers are now repurposed into a doubling of the food searcher contingent.
mircea_popescu: and, lest the "women's rights an' freedoms" morons get irritated -- no, the "not anymore" re marriage and the outlay above is not some kind of "progress". it is the simple economical result of the value of new children reaching ~0 and the probability of success also reaching ~0 : thus
asciilifeform: ( also ougta add, that if extended riemann is troo , then the supposition that 'for erry finite set of witnesses, can produce a p for which they all lie' is not , and the rng component of m-r would then be redherring )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, depends if you look from inside or from outside. from outside, kim is quite the perfect model.
asciilifeform: i.e. '"That dial hasn't moved yet, has it?" Edwardson asked, over the clamor of the Detector alarm bell. "Not a waffle." Cassel said reassuringly, looking at the dial with its indicator slamming back and forth against the stoppers either way.'
mircea_popescu: "of all the merchants there lie within this generation of 12 yo boys, 3/4 will die before being rich" "i intend to marry one of the rest. or three."
asciilifeform: for thread-completeness, will add that http://trilema.com/2014/the-hour-of-reckoning/ is possibly moar pertinent to the orig q than 'resplenduminous'
mircea_popescu: what is a rich merchant but a false witness to the truth of the dangers of voyage and risks of merchantry ?
mircea_popescu: the whole human race (and not exceptionally, most mammals also) is, essentialyl, an exercise in the exploitation of liar distribution like here discussed
asciilifeform: i'd be lying if i said that i knew how to connect this to the orig puzzler.
mircea_popescu: the overarching point here is that merely http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-28#1905503 is very little argument -- the whore discussed is superlatively feminine, and as a factual matter the human species exists as extant because the females employ the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-28#1905562 item, specifically as "let's all you schmoes go to war, and [http://trilema.com/2017/the-perennial-harriette-wilson/#selection-111.0-111
asciilifeform: upstack, to 'exploiting the winners is +ev strat' , this is entirely troo, for so long as you know how to eat'em without becoming infected with whatever made'em fat to begin with
asciilifeform: at least it wasn't the old 'cockroach inside , ticks' item.
asciilifeform: already guessed what was the trick ?
asciilifeform: before taking off , decided to buy sumthing from the carpet men, and bought a pocket watch. appeared to be keeping correct time, spiffy-looking '20s german thing
mircea_popescu: yes, but i happen to have whole blog documenting the daughter strategy, hence eg http://trilema.com/2009/chiar-nu-ma-agita-chestiunea/#selection-69.105-69.754
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu amply documented this for the btc lotterists , for instance
asciilifeform: historically, by sharp stick. at least in the case of what's ordinarily called lottery. cuz winning dun banish from the head the cockroaches that made'em play to begin with
mircea_popescu: principally, by the daughters.
asciilifeform: record appears to show that the winners, too , fucked
mircea_popescu: from the fact that "it is improductive, economically, to play the lottery" it does NOT follow that "it is a bad strategy, my daughter, to marry the winners"
mircea_popescu: this is proven by the fact that when you go to p-numbers shop and get numbers, what you get are... numbers.
asciilifeform: the notion does however follow, that lottery players are fucked in the head ( or is this also nao reopened case ..? )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, "uniform distributions" are not guaranteed to be what you get. when you go to milk shop and order milk, you get milk on the strength of ~human industry~, NOT on the strength of "the meanings of abstracts".
mircea_popescu: from "numbers on the interval 1, n have property p with probability 3/4"it does NOT follow that "these five numbers i picked contain 3.75 numbers wirth property p"
asciilifeform: so the latter ? 'bahaha you think uniform distributions exist' ?
a111: Logged on 2019-03-28 14:59 mircea_popescu: or in other words : "random" is not "jolly joker of do what i mean".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, it's not a puzzler ; it all reduces to the downstream implications of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-28#1905437
asciilifeform: so is the puzzler actually about m-r , or about whether notion of probability is physical ?
mircea_popescu: otherwise, by naive extension of daily experience, items such a geode (or even, an ore vein) are "not possible"
mircea_popescu: and ~this~ is the core of my argument -- not that probability of 1, nor that "forever". merely that for the one spot you happen to look at.
mircea_popescu: yes, in theory. in practice, you have a finite set out of a necessarily large space -- as part and parcel of what cryptography IS.
asciilifeform: if he wants you to fail with prob=1 , then he gotta give you a false witness each time.
mircea_popescu: you can not, on the basis of a 0% sample, to say anything avbout how the sample fits in the 100% it came from.
mircea_popescu: understand : there are no less than 2^4096 numbers in 4096 bits. if you take say 32 numbers out of this, that is, 2^5, you have thereby avoided 2^4091 numbers from the original set, which is to say, 100% to any practical apperoximation.
asciilifeform: so does mircea_popescu reject the 'for ~any~ given composite, 3/4 of integers are m-r witnesses' item ?
a111: Logged on 2019-03-28 15:21 mircea_popescu: i'm willing to bet "entropy is improved" 50% of the time.
asciilifeform: nao the q becomes, you later look at what came out of the wire. is it possible to conceive of a 'rng test' that the output would not (for particular p , taken as constant) fail ?
asciilifeform: so erry time you milk the wire for a witness, he gives you ( with some probability higher than what you would expect from actual rng per the orig m-r ) a false witness , erry time.
asciilifeform: where the devil in fact knows what each of your p is ( but he won't tell yer human enemy, he likes to make humans fight for amusement )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: let's rework the supposition into a gedankenexperiment, with mircea_popescu's permission ( plox to say if the described situation dun match the orig. )
mircea_popescu: we don't see the same thing here.
asciilifeform: sure enuff, but seems to me that asking for an object that appears to pass even elementary (e.g. 'pi dart') rng smoke test, while actually avoids 3/4 of the phase space in its output, is like asking for a 2 which is also a 3 .
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, fortunately their tower of shit depends on crap like having gps in the car.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, there's a difference between "show x can't be done" and "show how to do x"
asciilifeform: i confess the orig. supposition still dun compute in my head, where yes 3/4 of number line proves compositivity , but somehow a device which even approximates uniform random, manages to avoid'em in 32+ shots.
asciilifeform: ( a coupla thou. are known, found by brute force for the bottom 10e12 or so of number line, that's afaik it )
asciilifeform: afaik there is no recipe for finding large carmichaels .
mircea_popescu: i'm willing to bet "entropy is improved" 50% of the time.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, they're not equally distributed. here's what i propose : take a rng run, ent ; then take out all carmichael numbers from it, run ent. then see if you can tell which is which.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-17 03:03 mircea_popescu: "We wonder, and some Hunter may express wonder like ours, when through wilderness where London stood, holding the Wolf in chace he meets some fragment, huge, and there stops to guess. What powerful but unrecorded race once dwelt in that annihilated place ?"
asciilifeform: fwiw however i cannot presently think of any rng test, even the dumbest ones in the 'dieharder' collection, that wouldn't barf at a rng which avoids 3/4 (or any similar proportion) chunk of the integer number line
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, i'd say you found the first meaningful patch to be put on the fg tree.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> being pretty much the ~only test anyone here in any substantial sense gives a shit about. << Indeed
asciilifeform: on pc , pretty slow ( dun actually make anyffing like full use of even the modest fg bit rate )
asciilifeform: would be mighty great use case for hypothetical 'ffa cpu' (i.e. arithmetizer with wide bus)
asciilifeform: ( like all other possible rng tests, presupposes that the device is in fact an rng, rather than e.g. tape playing back an old rng run while enemy dies of laughter )
mircea_popescu: being pretty much the ~only test anyone here in any substantial sense gives a shit about.
asciilifeform: incidentally, litmus where you pluck a string of N bits from rng, and then look for the expected distribution of m-r liars ( or apparent primality ) is itself a notbad, imho, rng test
mircea_popescu: but yes, the relation you unearth is sound. the problem or set thereof i started discussing is exactly homomorphic to "well, we have no proper rng tests, "ou'll have to take the girl by the nose, count, and break out the abacuses.")
asciilifeform: which 6 yrs after picking up subj, asciilifeform for instance is no closer to nao than then
mircea_popescu: yes, "you do not even know what a working rng mathematically means"
mircea_popescu: your rng working or not is aside the point ; we're discussing here random numbers as a mathematical abstraction, we're not even counting "well, your set of 4, 4, 4, 4 is not exactly an implementation of that abstraction"
asciilifeform: so is the idea 'you cannot know whether yer rng actually worx?' cuz then i must agree
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, and this SHOULD STAY THAT WAY, is one thing i'm saying. for the above reasoning.
asciilifeform: the interval being picked for witness is 1..n ( well,really 1..n-1 , see diana_coman's review) tho
mircea_popescu: afgain : just because you've proven that 3/4 numbers in the interval 1, n have property p, you have not shown ANYTHING about how many numbers have the property p in some other interval q, q+k.
asciilifeform: cheaper, thermodynamically.
asciilifeform: near as i can tell, the argument resolves to 'random dun exist, if beelzebub feels like it he will feed you 32 liars'
a111: Logged on 2019-03-28 15:05 mircea_popescu: i do not dispute that the exercise is not worth doing, unless one has a girl nose fetish. nevertheless, worth doing is a different consideration from true.
asciilifeform: yer harem aint a uniform hat pick from the set tho
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, i dun see how works either! but what i'm saying is that you don't have ~proof~ it doesn't!
mircea_popescu: just because "every other human is female" does not mean there's 3 males in my harem.
asciilifeform: i can't see any path to 'magically fails 32 shots despite working uniform rng' without rejecting the 3/4
asciilifeform: apparently mircea_popescu dun buy the 3/4 proof ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, the problem's not necessarily stated as you state it. i am not capable to know in advance WHAT attack will have to be faced.
asciilifeform: say you have n for which the entire bottom quarter of the 2048bit witness space is liar. how does this prevent working rng from still finding working witness in the expected # of shots ?
mircea_popescu: i do not dispute that the exercise is not worth doing, unless one has a girl nose fetish. nevertheless, worth doing is a different consideration from true.
mircea_popescu: there, again there is not a mathematical proof to permit you to say -- if i say "the largest contiguous set of consecutive liars before number n will contain k such liars where k = n divided by alf's gf's nosehair count" there's no formulaic approach you can fall back on. you'll have to take the girl by the nose, count, and break out the abacuses.
asciilifeform: the 1 device which dun rely on unprovens is... otp ( insert oblig old thrd here !11 )
mircea_popescu: the bound presumes a flat spectrum rng and properties of large sets of random numbers that ~have not been proven~, though they are experimentally VERY reliable.
asciilifeform: correct, the bound presumes a flat-spectrum rng.
asciilifeform: this type of failure hinges on imperfection of rng, rather than hidden boojum in m-r
mircea_popescu: or in other words : "random" is not "jolly joker of do what i mean".
asciilifeform: the m-r proof is unambiguous re the number line thing. i.e. the p of n ~actually random~ witnesses all lying, is bounded.
mircea_popescu: this is not what i'd call "crackpottery". for all you know there IS a manner to construct "~always lied about by random witnesses" prime candidates.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, as to your earlier question : not such a large degree of crackpottery needed. consider that if i affirm today that a) given a list of however many ~randomly chosen~ witnesses from (1,n) b) the number k = x^2 + q x + p is going to be falsely identified as a prime number while n = q ^ 2 + p ^ 3, there is c) nothing you can practically do to give me the lie other than ~actually construct such numbers and check~.
asciilifeform: it's sorta like the proposition of hiding 4 people in phone booth
asciilifeform: to the point that i'm at a loss to construct a crackpot hypothesis for the negative ( what would the loch ness monster here look like ? erry composite n, we know has 3+ / 4 of integers as proper witnesses. so where wouldja hide'em so that working rng doesn't find 1 in 32 shots before asteroid hits machine ? )
asciilifeform: all we have is the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-28#1905286 ( from elementary proof ) + the observation that nobody ( or at least not asciilifeform ) has ever found a composite that doesn't properly light up m-r 'composite!' indicator for 3+ / 4 rng stabs.
a111: Logged on 2017-07-18 22:58 asciilifeform: whaack is quite likely thinking of the bulk of the b00k, which consists of blockcipher liquishit which is complicated for no reason at all other than the religion where 'it is confusing to ME, author, and therefore Must Be Hard To Break'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, i don't disagree a is the correct way ; but i am pointing out we do not actually have math to point to here. for all we, properly speaking, know, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1686299 eminently applies.
mircea_popescu: it is factually true that the liar occurence in (1, n) is ~1/3 ; i don't know how to evaluate the occurence in (n, n+k). it could be 1/3^2 or 1/3 ^ k or 1/3 ^ 1/k^16 or whatever the fuck else.
mircea_popescu: in any case, it seems to me that the a witnesses MUST be generated as rng(0, 2^4096) rather than rng (2^4095, 2^4096).
asciilifeform: ( fg disgorges up to ~32 candidate 2048-bit nums / sec . so it aint anywhere close to becoming the bottleneck in this use case )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, possibly a is actually significantly weaker than b. i dunno, intuitively i'd readily agree with you, but the fact is ~we don't know~.
asciilifeform: when we 1st had m-r thread, i also considered a hybrid algo, where you take e.g. 32 rng witnesses, and 32 that are kept in bottle and known only to you , for 64-shot test that is slightly moar immune to rng failure. but then thought 'rng is jesus bolt, if fails, yer candidate is also fucked' so couldn't think of why to do such a thing.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: possibly i'm thick, but what does b win ? seems like any hardcoded list, if becomes known to enemy, opens you up to theoretical 'bake a n for which the witnesses are liars' item
mircea_popescu: atm i am unaware how one would answer this ; but if any brins are in the audience by all means, even an unsuccessful ~meaningful~ attempt at tackling this question of our times is liable to make new math.
mircea_popescu: type a has the disadvantage that possibly we end up with worse witnesses, and type b has the disadvantage that possibly lists of n to which our known list of candidate witnesses is blind to may be also constructed in advance.
mircea_popescu: the ~only question that actually needs an answer is whether a) a selection of n random numbers b bits long made every time a candidate prime is checked for compositeness or b) a pre-given list of prime numbers b bits long among which n are randomly picked each time a candidate prime is checked for compositeness is a better approach towards checking a candidate prime for compositeness.
asciilifeform: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/RKx9Y/?raw=true << full 1000-shot run of the 2048bit-prime demo. min=13, max=306, avg=58, med=44 , total run time for 1000 primes = 58207 sec.
asciilifeform: would still like to find note #3 from that one , where he actually constructs the num
asciilifeform: ty diana_coman ! found http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-08#1722915 shortly , there it was
mircea_popescu: diana_coman, nice find, definitely the source of my memory.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: arnault's paper in the log from 1995 if that's the one you were looking for http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-08#1722906
mircea_popescu: "Digg Inc., a social-media pioneer once valued at more than $160 million, is selling for the deeply discounted price of about $500,000, three people familiar with the matter said." << back in 2012.
asciilifeform: the only source iirc for this item was an old ru report .
mircea_popescu: all part of work to make silent subs ; even the exhaust gets bottled.
mircea_popescu: afaik it's internally organized much like the "car battery" : a buncha half-liter cells inside a lined tank
asciilifeform: bad enuff that you gotta have the 400atm ballast cistern
mircea_popescu: the engines won't go very far on it (in no small part because it';s almost never taken to ~water density, ie, 800 or so atmospheres) ; but there's still a lot of air that can be fit in some not-so-huge tanks.
asciilifeform: there was a sovok train engine with no boiler . for last-mile into factory with combustibles. filled with steam, off-site, went for ~40min after.
asciilifeform: it was the germans who tried to actually ~run~ ship on compressed air. in ww1. did not ( surprise? ) go far.
mircea_popescu: even soviets had these
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 500 m. for the typical
mircea_popescu: the thing with subs is that failure means failure, there's no "oh, no brakes, stopped car in ditch".
asciilifeform: was thought, if you have 160 hands on the ship, may as well also battery
asciilifeform: funnily enuff, sov nuke vessels still had'em. backup to diesels which in turn backup to the 2 reactors
asciilifeform pictures castle mircea_popescustein with uboat-style battery room, what with the little cart that one rides lying on back to test electrolyte etc
mircea_popescu: then again who wants to fuck hamsters.
asciilifeform: this is 1 of the wins of rk, thing can live on 3W
mircea_popescu: but gigantgic hamster wheel in dank cellar quite the pic.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: funnily enuff, even cheapo current gen. of gym stationary bikes, actually include gens, they simply dump the current in resistor
mircea_popescu: im totally gonna look into this. what's the big deal, a generator and some welding.
asciilifeform: wainot, if they already turn wheels at gym..
trinque: hey folks, just a heads-up that castle trinque is running on batteries atm due to a blown transformer. wallet will be around while batteries last, after which we'll be awaiting the mains.
asciilifeform: ( for 'honest' prime gen, where there's actually 2 primes of the traditional bitness, this ~never happens. but for others.. )
asciilifeform: incidentally, and for thread-completeness, gotta add, for certain patterns of failed m-r sequence , you end up with output that gets you a factor. this item is actually on the phuctor conveyor, when i get a free hand to crank it again
mircea_popescu: anyway, i guess what i'm tryingto say is that if i were looking to dig among the liar set i'd be mostly trying to guide it by the charmicael set.
mircea_popescu: yeah ; more properly : there is a class of numbers that are both carmichael numbers and strong liars.
mircea_popescu: in any case, to get back to the previous line : afaik all m-r liars are also carmichael numbers.
asciilifeform: correct, it dun tell you where they are.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, the problem with that 3/4 figure is that it's ~an average~ (obtained by a very trivial calculation). there's no known way to evaluate the statistical divergence over a finite set.
asciilifeform: ahahaha the 'ohnoez , homebrew crypto' people
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall, the derpcrypto folx use not only small, but ~fixed~ witnesses, lol
a111: Logged on 2019-01-02 18:57 mircea_popescu: what's hilarious is the ever-present http://trilema.com/2017/global-warming-on-triton/#selection-154.0-157.103 whereby they'll imaginarily seat themselves in my seat and start spewing http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-04#1809349 slash assorted nonsense about "homebrew crypto" lalala.
mircea_popescu: (and also why the usual crowd of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-02#1883944 systematically push them)
mircea_popescu: another piece of the puzzle is that while small numbers are ~perfect~ witnesses for up to a certain value, they become terrible witnesses thereupon, which is why small witnesses are useless in crypto
mircea_popescu: but even taking a small selection among these to produce a sieve, and then churning a bunch of composites through it, might produce some lulz.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-27 23:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, there's eg ~20mn carmichael numbers under 10^20
mircea_popescu: the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-27#1905222 item is relevant, because if you were to enumerate the pairs you'd be looking at 20mn!/2!(20mn-2)!, which is truly a staggering nuymber, of possible liars of a size up to 10^40
asciilifeform: iirc it is how the linked item worked
mircea_popescu: in more practical terms : about 1/4 of products of strong liars are also strong liars, which is another constructive direction.
asciilifeform: ( even moar interesting, would be to find litmus for some variant of this being in use, then could point it at phuctor collection & pull trigger )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: dun suppose you have the text lying around?
mircea_popescu: finding the nontrivial square roots of 1 modulo n is a hard problem ; but constructing some is not. anyway, not right now in the best form to go through archives but will see to this.
asciilifeform: somehow enemy gotta feed you errything other than those 3/4..
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the operative diff is, 3/4 is lower bound. i.e. there aint a composite where 3/4 of the integers aint proper witness.
mircea_popescu: there is ~some~ overlap between carmichael and m-r (eg 1729 is a pretty reliable flase witness).
asciilifeform: then can say 'enemy who fed you a magic p, and then 32 selected witnesses, can lead you off cliff'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that'd entirely fit the bill, if you find it
mircea_popescu: the problem's converse : construct k integers that are false witnesses for the primality of the pq product.
asciilifeform: in m-r, for prime p, 3/4 of the integers are troof-tellers for p
mircea_popescu: yes ; but by analogy i expect it's possible you have some m-r liars up to the large (4096 bit is a large number) numbers we're dealing wqith
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, there's eg ~20mn carmichael numbers under 10^20
mircea_popescu: afaik there was constructive approach
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: interestingly, iirc even to bake 32 liars (having control of the witnesses, presupposes) that 1) all diff 2) work for some n -- is open problem atm
asciilifeform: ( high in comparison with the naked 4**-x that is )
mircea_popescu: provided, of course, the witnesses aren't correlated.
BingoBoingo: In still other news, US sheep herd hits an all time low.
asciilifeform: in other noose, 100 shots of that 2048bit-prime baker : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/DjaVe/?raw=true ; min=13, max=299, avg=61, median=47 (seconds) .
asciilifeform: fwiw 'speed of ffa' for applications involving modexp ( rsa keygen & enc/dec ) hinges ~entirely on speed of the multiplier unit in $iron .
asciilifeform deliberately uses oldest opteron in the torture room as 'standard ffa gauge' , if wasn't obv.
asciilifeform: ( the latter not used for any of the published tests, but to simply gauge the effect of 'modern' x86isms . fwiw does have constant-time mul etc )
asciilifeform: i also built at various points on a heathen i7 (2.8G) and there runs ~2x faster across the board, ftr
diana_coman: on that d1 intel from http://ossasepia.com/2019/02/28/zcx-vs-sjlj-data-set/#selection-113.0-113.85 the tests of eucrypt that generate a key pair take at times ~20 min, just to give an idea
diana_coman: asciilifeform: timings sounds good to me; I have it on the list to get some timings for comparison when I get to eat full FFA, yes; atm though I can tell for sure that 10 minutes for generating key is both fine and rather fast even.
asciilifeform: diana_coman back in the day posted old-style mpi timings but i do not know on what irons so cannot readily compare .
asciilifeform: ( naturally at no point will the algo complete faster than the time eaten by the given # of m-r rounds specified )
asciilifeform: to reduce the # of sad candidates that m-r ends up eating