asciilifeform: the q, if there even is a q, is re what convention of order to write array range in. ada forces the low-to-high left-to-right.
asciilifeform: often enuff the bits are stored interleaved via some satanic scheme, and aint even contiguous on a single die or ram stick etc
asciilifeform: there is not a physical left or right that actually corresponds to it.
asciilifeform: mod6: the 'left' and 'right' in array are imaginary.
asciilifeform: i gotta admit tho, that the 'oh noez, array isn't drawn with the junior bits at the right' thing never bothered me.
asciilifeform: but neither ada nor anyffin else, does this.
asciilifeform: mod6: ideally array syntax would allow the array range to be declared subtype Word_Count is Indices range Indices'Last .. 1; , and for the '1' to be 'first' pos. then would be consistent with the trad shl/shr 'geometry'.
mod6: So, I guess I thought I had all of it making sense in my mind. But tell me if I'm wrong! Then I'll have to re-read that first chapter again with my misunderstandings corrected.
mod6: So if what I had previously believed above is true, and it would seem to considering my understanding of FZ_Add for instance, then "most junior bits on the left" makes sense to me, but "FZ_Get_Head" seems perhaps a bit confusing. Although, when I typically "getHead()" or "getTail()" I expect to get the 0-ith index, or the nth, respectively.
mod6: where '0100' is in the 0-ith array position, or if one were to look at it this way, the bottom of the stack, or the left.
mod6: Ok, so maybe you can help me out here. I always looked at an FZ as an array of Words, or a Stack if one prefers to look at it this way. Where, if I'm going to make an FZ number '4', it would be set in the array like (i'll use 4 bits per word to save space):
mod6: And before I comment a whole bunch further, her notes make me rethink what I had thought I had known about. So I'll try to grab some time soon and load these things back into my head.
mod6: alright, I've read the article, so I see what you're referring to now.
mod6: Ah, ok then cool. I'll report back once I read it. cheers!
asciilifeform: no reason to, it oughta look same on errybody's display, that wasn't the q
mod6: Thanks, so yeah, her post is in my queue to read. But I have seen the above diagram before ^, and it looked "ok" to me, but I haven't read that far ahead yet.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-18 14:05 asciilifeform: diana_coman: aaa you were speaking of the diagrams in 10, 12, 14 . yes they're 'mirrored'.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-12 19:57 asciilifeform: 'you thought you could put little arrows from one place to another in'em without hand-diddling coordinates for each one ?'
asciilifeform: i'ma add this to the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-12#1908374 file, btw : if there existed actual programmatic diagram tool, who wants mirrored could simply push button an' flip. ( as it is, thing is 100% laboriously -- as in months of fiddling -- hand-drawn )
asciilifeform: ( so far no one else mentioned it in the log, but i have nfi whether because wasn't headache-inducing, or no one read far enuff in other than diana_coman )
asciilifeform: mod6: outta curiosity, didja have same headache as diana_coman , with the left-right diagrams ?
a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 20:20 asciilifeform: mod6 ^ + other ffa-eating folx, i suspect will find diana_coman's piece quite handy
trinque: http://trilema.com/2019/antiqua-sanctorum-patrum-or-the-lordship-list-sixth-year/ << I have updated deedbot's rolls to reflect. Congrats to bvt and Mocky !
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: In local "Florida Man" (Except in Rio Negro because the local Florida is boring) https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/el-ladron-de-la-mascara-de-hulk-que-tiene-en-vilo-a-young-201941718159
asciilifeform: the historical meaning ( and iirc diana_coman pointed this out in the piece ) is simply from how european writes a number, left to right, e.g. 10, bin 1010 >> 1 is 101 (5) , the motion being to the right
asciilifeform: ( but at the same time 'shl' and 'shr' in same only ever refer to their conventional meaning, n*=2 and n/=2 respectively )
asciilifeform: funnily enuff, i looked through my paper notes and found that often enuff i draw registers in both directions, depending on what was convenient to fit other things on the pg.
diana_coman: re flipping them in one's head: I'm sure it comes with practice but I'm not yet there; and yes, it's more of my shortcoming that I keep tripping on this but atm this is how it is; generally speaking I don't think the ideal is to think in terms of role rather than (any) direction but there are the (historical as you noted) left/right shift/rotate which inevitably still bring direction in for me.
diana_coman: asciilifeform: updated with the .dia files http://ossasepia.com/2019/04/17/reading-notes-on-ffa-ch1-ch4/#selection-209.1-225.1
diana_coman: come to think of it, they might be useful if anyone wants to tinker them to clearer format or anything; brb
asciilifeform: diana_coman: what didja use to make the flow graph in http://ossasepia.com/2019/04/17/reading-notes-on-ffa-ch1-ch4/ ?
a111: Logged on 2019-04-18 04:38 mp_en_viaje: because what the fuck were they gonna do, romulus & remus all over the sabine lands ? nigga puhleaze, you can lose an eye doing that.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-18#1909021 << afaik cockroaches have not yet invented romulusing. yet there they are, happily living errywhere incl. chernobyl zone.
asciilifeform: it is entirely possible tho , to grasp the material w/out them ( diana_coman apparently did -- or used a mirror ? i do not know )
asciilifeform: drew the e.g. ch10 'electrical' illustrations 'in reverse' w/out even noticing ( and apparently diana_coman is 1st to notice )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: possibly asciilifeform is odd in this respect, but can rotate things around axis of symmetry w/out really thinking about it, possibly this leads to the sort of thing that irritated diana_coman
asciilifeform: diana_coman: aaa you were speaking of the diagrams in 10, 12, 14 . yes they're 'mirrored'.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 20:28 asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'm still stumped re where it was that i had 'most junior bits on the left' tho
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908845 -> mostly in the posts/explanations; hence my "I do not use " - as I go through it, I keep to "most junior on the right" to avoid tripping over, that's all.
mp_en_viaje: anyway, the sluts are up (how the fuck can they be up at 6 am after being marched all over town yest is anyone's guess, but facts be facts) so ima take them for a nude hotel photoshoot. bbl.
mp_en_viaje: because what the fuck were they gonna do, romulus & remus all over the sabine lands ? nigga puhleaze, you can lose an eye doing that.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 22:45 asciilifeform: i suspect that proprietor of 'gowin' et al is not thinking 'how do i vanquish the reich' but instead 'how do i chisel enuff revenue away from xilinx to build palace in miami for my 4 sons'. and i betcha already built.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908982 << im sure it is, and im sure the 4 "sons" who happen to be daughters in alt-daughter bodies married 4 other women, either natural or artificial, and are sitting there spawning for an activity.
mp_en_viaje: "oh but mp, that wouldn't be fair!!!". quite. who the fuck ever played fair and wasn't a complete and utter moron ? women play fair, and women only. but they're biologically constrained to this, they ony do it because they're trying to get pregnant. i'm not trying to get pregnant.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 22:40 asciilifeform: i suppose could even argue that the chinese chip folx suffer from a variant of this -- they drank enuff usg.coolaid to begin to think that they, too, could 'make money from intellectualproperty(tm) just like miami'
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908978 << quite. who the fuck wants to compete with the redskins AS A REDSKIN. let them fucking die out, jesus.
mp_en_viaje: chinese could've solved the white question, AND SHOULD HAVE.
mp_en_viaje: this is how you solve the fucking moron question, all the time : turn the stuff of its very life into m3 screw.
mp_en_viaje: "to solve the indian question".
mp_en_viaje: why did they do it ?
a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 22:26 asciilifeform: i.e. why would they want to turn golden toilet into sub-cent margin 'commoditized m3 screw'
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908971 << because you get somthing for this. "why would white man wish to turn subsitence farming into mass market ???" "because this way, the only red skins left are in erotica, drawn by white hands."
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: at this pt i'm not even convinced that there ~is~, or could be, a 'chinese strategy', or 'they want..' -- these folx have not developed a with-what to want , whole edifice reduces to individual party-appointed directors' desire for miami
a111: Logged on 2014-12-11 03:19 mircea_popescu: consider that china had helicopter designs cca 500ad, it had known of gunpowder for 3k years by the time we finally heard of it and they were writing alchemy treatises before homer was even walking the earth.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-07 22:33 mircea_popescu: this is the truth pantsuit vehehehery carefully tiptoes around every time they're "discussing" usg's foreign policy outlay : usg is a chinese vassal, it has to ask for permission.
a111: Logged on 2017-06-12 17:32 mircea_popescu: no wonder pantsuit party has no substantial disagreement with china becoming dominating power. they watch that inept chinese writing method and get wet.
mp_en_viaje: the other half of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-12#1669201 to http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-07#1900871 is that the pantsuit are vehehehery impressed, and as flattered as could be, by their observation that the chinese very much want their approval, and to not "rock the boat", and other such inept notions that ensure china ~never mattered historically, in spite of milennia of cvasi-organised life. yet, cvas
mp_en_viaje: the people who stay home are the people who never discover the fucking pinoy sailed all the way to discovering zanzibar.
mp_en_viaje: the chinese stayed home. bad call.
mp_en_viaje: there's only one fat calf, and this stupid cunt DOES NOT GET IT.
mp_en_viaje: there's two kids in the "prodigal son" fable. one's the moron that stays home, and aspires for his dad to give him the blessing of dadhood, and of manhood, and everything else, through fucking laying of the hands. that's the fucktard's idea, that he'll stay home with dad and pray that the substance of dad be bestowed upon him through fucking vegetative process. like a woman's exactly!
mp_en_viaje: instead, they opted to waste all that time and all those resources, on the dubious task of obtaining the moron's "blessing" through some piddly-ass "continuity" understood as "let's just do the same old stupid with serials filed off, who can tell ?"
mp_en_viaje: so proceeding by similarity : the chinese ~could have~ done what we do, except decades earlier, and as a result ~truly~ confiscated intellectual activity from pantsuit morons.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 21:02 asciilifeform salivates at the thought of seeing e.g. budapest, but presently having to save up 'vacation' juice for BingoBoingostan expeditions, rotting in bed with flu, etc
mp_en_viaje: but ~before~ you get that, and until you start getting that, you instead enjoy colonialism, aka justice (in the only proper sense), aka http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908880
mp_en_viaje: yes, all the might and glory of the very best fruits this earth ever produced eventually regressed to the filth of cunthood. once you stop killing women such that most are either dead before menopause or else lived their entire life marginalized, and instead start asking them to run things, from the local hotel to the local police station or dog pound, you get what you necessarily get.
mp_en_viaje: rather than "continue zulu forms under british flag", they introduced torens title and the land register, and steel hulled shipping, and dutch notions of trade and german legal notions and so forth.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, as stated, question is unanswerable. the best i can do for you towards fixing it is working by simile. consider the case of british or french in zululand : had they opted to re-implement troglodyte matriarchy "with some fixes", the result would have been present day ourdemocracy three centuries prior.
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu had a piece re how 'the people w/out balls, they do not want Anything to Happen; they want to hum along.' that's china in 1 sentence.
asciilifeform: in asia they have blind 'cult of wealth', in the straight '10c cheaper litre of petrol' sense.
asciilifeform: i suspect that proprietor of 'gowin' et al is not thinking 'how do i vanquish the reich' but instead 'how do i chisel enuff revenue away from xilinx to build palace in miami for my 4 sons'. and i betcha already built.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-06 21:00 mircea_popescu: this is akin to the notion that redskins would have used treaties to opress white settlers. bitch, really ?
a111: Logged on 2015-03-06 03:29 mircea_popescu: if you are one of the people buying belgian rubber concessions on the stock exchanges, you make money. if you're in africa, you make quick with the hands and feet.
asciilifeform: rather than http://btcbase.org/log/2015-03-06#1044115 / http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-06#1793725
asciilifeform: i suppose could even argue that the chinese chip folx suffer from a variant of this -- they drank enuff usg.coolaid to begin to think that they, too, could 'make money from intellectualproperty(tm) just like miami'
a111: Logged on 2019-03-28 16:19 asciilifeform: historically, by sharp stick. at least in the case of what's ordinarily called lottery. cuz winning dun banish from the head the cockroaches that made'em play to begin with
asciilifeform: but in both cases similar, 'i'ma find this technicality in the Official Rulz that will Surely Work' etc
a111: Logged on 2018-04-06 20:59 asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu had a piece about how troobelievers in 'rule of law' will set themselves up into ridiculously doomed situations, where they fixate on some technicality, like changing their names to punctuation marks or somesuch, that Will Surely Crash The System
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908968 << recall the 'sovereign citizen' idjits ? or e.g. the earlier 'sealand' d00d . the diff b/w the penniless and the rich idjits is that the latter build larger physical monuments to their hallucinations, is all
asciilifeform: i.e. why would they want to turn golden toilet into sub-cent margin 'commoditized m3 screw'
asciilifeform: if mp_en_viaje has the spare cycles, asciilifeform is quite curious to learn how exactly the chinese chip folx are 'leaving money on table'
mp_en_viaje: if they had any fucking sense they'd be doing pretty much everything at least slightly differently, and a lot of things quite very differently ; but then again the exact same could be said of spanish conquistadors, or medieval crusaders, or british imperial administration, or zee fucking reich.
mp_en_viaje: the chinese are leaving money on the table left and right, sometimes by failure to perceive the table, sometimes by failure to understand what money is, etcetera.
a111: Logged on 2016-05-16 18:15 mircea_popescu: there's stories in the us proletcult folklore about the regime deciding to socially integrate gypsies, ending up with indoor fireplace fed from what used to be the parquet...
a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 19:26 asciilifeform: in principle it would be trivial to bake a standardized, commoditized fpga. the 'gowin' people could have easily done this, an' published the interconnect scheme and the delay map. BUT what no one knows how to do, is to make this a +ev proposition. observe, the chinese had no interest in trying to commoditize , but instead went 'we'll do exactly what xilinx does but slightly cheaper , out of chinesium'
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908807 << guaranteedly no thought went into any of this. the http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-16#1467290 proprietor of a previously transylvanian saxon-owned property including an acre of orchard that wasn't properly pruned failing to properly prune the damned trees isn't proof positive "nobody could turn tree pruning into +ev activty". the fucktarded gypo doesn't even know what the fuck an orchard is, nor could distin
mp_en_viaje: ended up having to import magnums, because "o no, all we do is durex here" "okay, so where's the durex xl then ?" "what ? no such ting exists!!!!"
asciilifeform worked with chinese fella who spent multiple hr erry day on ~looking for 10c cheaper petrol~ . the english have perfect term, 'penny wise, pound foolish'
BingoBoingo: In New World Wonders I present "The Catherdral of Artigas" (sparsley populated territory in the Northern Corner bordering Brasil) http://archive.is/wmjIU
mp_en_viaje: entire fucking country has nothing but tiny dick condoms, i'm like, bitch, where the fuck do you keep the large ones, they're like what large ones.
mp_en_viaje: and speaking of tiny dicks : EVERYONE IN ROMANIA GOES ABOUT WITH A THIMBLE BETWEEN THEIR LEGS.
mp_en_viaje: the de-moronification of short little men with slanty eyes and tiny dicks makes the turning of all us suburban mall rats into virtuoso concert pianists a picnic of a task.
mp_en_viaje: not the fucking banking apps.
mp_en_viaje: and THEN they think it's ~fans~ that suck the air out of the room while you sleep so you suffocate.
asciilifeform: iirc korea even worse. ( ~0 one in korea has ever heard of any www browser other than ie , for instance )
mp_en_viaje: which is how "sacrosanct windows version" got to be the thing.
mp_en_viaje: it's almost like their version of mating. "i enjoy sticking it into the missus precisely because i have no fucking idea how i got here nor any confidence i could repeat it ever"
mp_en_viaje: they seem to get some very weird to not say patently insane satisfaction out of "making i twork"
asciilifeform: china, in case anyone was thick enuff not to yet notice, is not therepublic; it's a cheap chinesium clone of 'vhs' usg.
BingoBoingo: The retards treat their old windows versions as sacrosanct. Those turds draw more loyalty than any linux versions.
mp_en_viaje: we think we have problems, you should see the army of chinese 20something retards and their personal habits for writing code.
asciilifeform: what else are they ever.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-10 16:35 mp_en_viaje looks at the wonder. it's something else, requires adobe air, atop a lengthy pile of other bullshit. the comments "#added by yong wong" in the ~100kb init.sh (that ~requires root~) are the lulz of all time.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 18:33 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in february, chinese 'gowin semiconductor co' cloned ice40. but if anyone thought this means 'open spec', guess again, only worx with their 'YunYuan' closed shitware toolchain.
BingoBoingo: The former priviledged lease to the Catholics gets Surrendered by Argentine anti-pope. Mourning ensues for the absent Borgias.
mp_en_viaje: "They sounded at 16:50 GMT to mark the exact moment when the blaze started on Monday." << the preoccupations of these fucktards.
asciilifeform: 'they hoped for "a new spire that is adapted to the techniques and the challenges of our era"' << lol!!
asciilifeform did , repeatedly, write, and many yrs ago nao, that the 'reverse fpga' people are solving the wrong problem -- by the time they achieve anyffin, vendor simply replaces the design and laffs
mp_en_viaje: none of these retards "doing things" "running projects" etcetera outside of the republic are worth 0. they're all negative.
mp_en_viaje: and the EXACT same goes for linus. because if deedbot comes out with 0, you know ~for a fact~ schmuck's running a bait and switch scheme, waiting for anon tards to donate their wikipedia editing to him so he can donate it to some "code of conduct" femstate tards down the line.
asciilifeform: he didn't conjure up the delay map, but asciilifeform neither knows how to do this without seven figures' worth of microscopy
asciilifeform: where did he 'poison the meat' ?
mp_en_viaje: the world is truly better off without linus, without this dork, without all of them. better a frank dark age than more of this twittercrap.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: knowing 0 aside from the product , i would say it is not correct to put wolf in the company of koch -- wolf actually did sumthing nontrivial and useful ( mapped out the ice40 matrix )
mp_en_viaje: all these 40-something white dudes with a lengthy "conferences" resume and a buncha typical assorted retardation. not useful, cordially invited to http://trilema.com/2016/asscience/ it.
asciilifeform: ( the '18 one , i have, and worx for low-frequency applications like e.g. 'fg 2' , but that's pretty much it )
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: (as you can read further downthread) the misfortunate thing is that died before got anywhere near mature ice40 tool.
mp_en_viaje: all the better.
BingoBoingo: No reason not to post trees and birds more often. This week they butchered the trees on my street, but they'll grow back still gnarlier copices and pollards. It's a thing of charm.
mp_en_viaje: ya ya, whole theo de radt song and dance again.
asciilifeform: i have nfi either way. ( in fact had nfi that he ~had~ a piggy )
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: re 'what happened there' , d00d seems to say his piggy went dry.
mp_en_viaje: they can get bent.
mp_en_viaje: oh i see, this is one of those "if mp gives some money then we'll pretend microsoft gave us money, and if not, whatever, '''do something else'''"
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i take the pics mostly for self, to occasionally look at and remember that there ~is~ an outside
mp_en_viaje: "I should just burn it all down and start something completely fresh. I always thought CFD combustion models are super fascinating. Maybe I'll do that next. Or maybe I'll just drop off the grid, get a regular job, and write EDA software just for me and nobody else. Fuck FOSS EDA. " << i wonder what happened there.
asciilifeform: and pics are great, i suspect most of these 'everythings' i will only see if mp_en_viaje finds time to make a pic of'em.
mp_en_viaje: that's actually the local spirit.
mp_en_viaje: oh oh, the palinka
asciilifeform: iirc already posted 1 , with the wine glasses
mp_en_viaje: i suppose ima have to post the "bring me one of everything" pics huh.
asciilifeform: if asciilifeform could leave the idjit reservation for even say whole 6 wks, perhaps effect would wear off. but when or how would this even happen lol.
asciilifeform salivates at the thought of seeing e.g. budapest, but presently having to save up 'vacation' juice for BingoBoingostan expeditions, rotting in bed with flu, etc
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, really the sane way is to connect through budapest. one of the better airports in general area.
mp_en_viaje: oh, absolutely must then.
mp_en_viaje: you;d prolly love the architecture here. ever been ?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: re 'Natural' type -- this is one of asciilifeform's persistent headaches -- the lang forces certain things to be indexed by 'Natural', and i optimized for minimal # of casts ( i fucking hate casts, and imho the fact that one cannot write a proggy ENTIRELY without'em, is a language bug )
mp_en_viaje: i mean here, the chicks are a pleasure. cosmetics store clerks are like, running more of a club in the g0d damned store than the average costa rican strip club
asciilifeform: afaik ~all of europistan walkable, except maybe bucharest where they do the orc thing of 'we'll all buy merc on credit and park on sidewalk'
asciilifeform: i settled it in favour of having preconds etc. on the ~user-operable~ api ( as pictured in ch11. )
asciilifeform: e.g. one ~could~ have preconds on ~all~ of the ops, but then say goodbye to inlining and hello to 'geological' rsa.
asciilifeform: there's an engineering tension b/w 'maximally consistent' and 'performs reasonably on pc' , which i resolved mostly but not entirely in favour of the former
asciilifeform: re the range-independent thing -- it is part of a larger picture, summarized in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2892#selection-231.1-391.71 ( in turn from an earlier diana_coman thread, in fact . )
asciilifeform: 'MachineBitnessLog2' is prolly the most obv. example of this, it only comes into play in ch13
asciilifeform: tho i do suspect that i did introduce certain knobs before there was strictly a need to do so, solely on acct of imperfect plan ( recall, most of the proggy through ch10 or so, pre-existed the start of the human-readable series )
asciilifeform: http://ossasepia.com/2019/04/17/reading-notes-on-ffa-ch1-ch4/#selection-219.321-219.445 << y'know, there isn't any harm in 'looking ahead in the textbook', when you feel like doing so
asciilifeform: http://ossasepia.com/2019/04/17/reading-notes-on-ffa-ch1-ch4/#selection-161.412-161.519 << measurable penalty. which is why the 'range-independent' thing is in some ops but not others. i headached over this extensively when 1st wrote.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'm still stumped re where it was that i had 'most junior bits on the left' tho
asciilifeform: re shift_right and shift_left -- these follow the machine convention, which afaik has been unchanged since 1960s and long pre-dates 'endianism' wank
asciilifeform: diana_coman: re the stylistic nitpicks : there'll defo be a tail-end ch where various items get moar descriptive names. and i agree with diana_coman's pt re e.g. 'Get_Head'
asciilifeform: mod6 ^ + other ffa-eating folx, i suspect will find diana_coman's piece quite handy
asciilifeform: diana_coman: a++, will read, and will roll the sigs into next ch
diana_coman: the writeup is behind the sigs that are behind the read that is behind the skim and so on
BingoBoingo: Just wondering what a market could look like if USG didn't burn a trillon or so over the decade promoting shit
asciilifeform: it's the most massively centralized industry that exists. there are actually moar independent satellite launchers than e.g. <= 70nm fabs.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: there aint any 'small shops' in chip biz.
asciilifeform: asic is a high enuff risk biz that the people who do it, are conservative to the point of 'if this exact thing hasn't been done before, fughetaboutit'
BingoBoingo: Right, the problem with megashops subsidizing the milk to kill small shops pops up here. Whatever it costs is undercut by USG financing Intel and other shitgnomes in the space.
asciilifeform: observe that even the btc asic thing was financed by outright fraud (and on massive scale)
asciilifeform: ( tho iirc there was an actual attempt to organize 1, they launched a crate or 2 of fist-sized beepbeeps into deliberately burns-in-coupla-months orbit )
asciilifeform: sorta why there aint a 'open sores satellite launcher' firm, etc
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the reason why there aint a linux-style derpfoundation in ironware, is elementary
BingoBoingo: The point of those "foundations" seems to be preventing good things
a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 18:29 asciilifeform: meanwhile, apparently (last yr) in heathendom, https://archive.is/UVbUE << c. wolf , author of the ice40 open fpga toolchain , apparently barfed and 'went naggum'
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-17#1908779 << This retard in the thread "It would be nice to see OpenSilicon Foundation or whatever the name would be. Similar to what Apache or Linux Foundations do? But that requires someone with really good and people skills and industry connections to run. The list of existing ones is long: "...
bvt: i see; if vendor can subvert the chip in nonobvious way by changing delays organizing a military style приемка would be the only option for actually using the devices
a111: Logged on 2016-04-07 17:50 mircea_popescu: basically, all the architecture systems architects have managed yet to produce is the equivalent of "we need 10.1k builders - 100 to build and 10k to hold up the walls once we're done".
asciilifeform: ( and, bonus, their shitware aint even sold outside of ru )
asciilifeform: 2y ago asciilifeform found a ru firm that cloned altera's larger fpga. they do SAME THING
asciilifeform: the entire biz model of fpga market as it existed since 1990 or so, is based specifically on pulling this kinda scam.
asciilifeform: cuz they dun give you the info that you'd need to actually bake the config streams for these 'from 1st principle'.
asciilifeform: i.e. yer still stuck with their closed shitware, and with closed 'ip cores' (libraries) from them if you want sdram, ethernet, etc.
asciilifeform: in principle it would be trivial to bake a standardized, commoditized fpga. the 'gowin' people could have easily done this, an' published the interconnect scheme and the delay map. BUT what no one knows how to do, is to make this a +ev proposition. observe, the chinese had no interest in trying to commoditize , but instead went 'we'll do exactly what xilinx does but slightly cheaper , out of chinesium'
asciilifeform: it's a 1st-class bitch to do this with 0 cooperation from the folx who make the chip, mainly cuz erry single revision has different intrinsic delays.
asciilifeform: the ice40 people , arguably 'solved half of the problem' -- they found a reasonably homogeneous chip so that they could describe the actual connections. but apparently were unable to map out the delays.
asciilifeform: but if you want deterministic paths, currently yer stuck using the vendor shitware. ( what's worse, even on ye olde xilinx apparently it is impossible to write e.g. a working 200MHz+ dram controller from 1st principles, yer forced to use the vendor's shitware that actually knows the gate delays, to equalize the paths )
bvt: i get the propagation delay physics; i guess the question is how much is lost due to suboptimal design tools, vs max capability of hardware
asciilifeform: ( it will not only occupy the ~entire matrix, even if you somehow get it to fit; but also won't meet timing spec, even at pretty modest clock )
asciilifeform: this is why fpga design ~never runs at anywhere near the max switching rate specced by the device vendor. a good synth tool 1) tries to minimize the delays 2) gives you an accurate figure for max clock, and for propagations of individual paths ( if you have e.g. dram hanging off the thing, these are critical )
asciilifeform: bvt: re delays, it's a quite basic fact, if you have e.g. nand gate in 1 path, and straight wire in other, the signals will get to other side at different times
bvt: i have to admit i have zero experience with these tools
a111: Logged on 2018-01-04 20:06 asciilifeform: in other 'news', it is apparently impossible to fit even ONE 4096-bit adder into an ice40-8k ( the largest in the series )
asciilifeform: there are two consequences of poor synth engine : can't fit into the chip even items that theoretically oughta fit, and : what's worse, sometimes ~can~ fit, but 'mysteriously' dun work at reasonable clock , cuz mismatched path delays.
bvt: the larger fpga - seems to be it https://symbiflow.github.io/prjtrellis-db/ ? last time i checked it was work in progress
asciilifeform: ( ~why~ went nowhere -- i do not presently know; it may be simply from lack of time , ~or~ could easily be because he does not in fact have the relevant gate-delay numbers . the published docs suggest the latter as possibility )
asciilifeform: he had plan to dig into the larger fpga from same vendor, and to improve the synth engine, but apparently went nowhere.
asciilifeform: bvt: i'm satisfied that wolf properly described the low-level fabric of the 8k model. but the synthesis engine is pretty barbaric.
bvt: asciilifeform: isn't ice40 a done thing, i.e. is there anything else to add to it?
asciilifeform suspects that this would require finding some other planet to sell'em on..
asciilifeform: evidently, the hero who knows how to turn work on sane kompyooting irons/softs into a self-sustaining economic item, is not yet born.
a111: Logged on 2015-03-24 18:38 ascii_field: mats: the way the story normally ends is that the reversed fpga becomes quasi-usable nearly the same time it goes out of print and replaced with incompatible version...
asciilifeform: aand last update on the ice40 page seems to be 30 jan '18. so nuffin happened there since i 1st found it. ( there was, at one point, e.g. talk of support for the larger lattice co. chips )
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in february, chinese 'gowin semiconductor co' cloned ice40. but if anyone thought this means 'open spec', guess again, only worx with their 'YunYuan' closed shitware toolchain.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, apparently (last yr) in heathendom, https://archive.is/UVbUE << c. wolf , author of the ice40 open fpga toolchain , apparently barfed and 'went naggum'
BingoBoingo: In other conspiracies former President of Peru allegedly evacuated his own skull case with lead when the police showed up to to gulag him.
asciilifeform: unrelatedly : phf , iirc you signed a coupla ch of ffa prior to the keccak regrind. didja ever sign the reground chs ?
asciilifeform: ... which makes the hdd-like approach described in earlier thread even moar appealing -- dun have to laser'em out, can simply map the dead blocks, and tell autorouter not to use'em
asciilifeform: i.e. the # of ~working~ transistors you can reliably fit on 1 die, flattened out some time even before what is ordinary thought of as 'death of moore's law'
a111: Logged on 2019-04-10 17:24 asciilifeform: ( i suspect mp_en_viaje knew this already, but even intel et al, 'cheat', when you buy a pentium-whatever with 'n cores', it really has 24 or whatnot, and only n working units , the others lasered out )
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-15#1908560 lulz : didjaknow, in e.g. <= 250nm process, concept of 'yield' is invariably in the direction of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-10#1907933 , rather than ye olde 'put the working units in crate A , the dead -- in the skip'
asciilifeform: iirc ben_vulpes had the multichannel xref thing
phf: also re pizarro, i can, but it'll take me a bit of time, it doesn't have multi channel capability, but then i'm also not sure if i want to make it explicitly multi channel. i might just spin up a second instance instead
lobbesbot: phf: Sent 4 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> can pleez have the old 'auto new tab' log link behaviour back ?
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf can pleez have the old 'auto new tab' log link behaviour back ?
mp_en_viaje: trinque, i suppose one possible approach, in desperation of anythingelse, would be the brit's "nuclear security" protocol of checking for bbc keks.
trinque: at the very least, to come up with a model for wtf occurs.
trinque: much as I'd like to put all the blame on fleanode, I'd like it if the bot handled this stuck state a bit better. it's still on my todo list to address.
mod6: 'tis all I've got for the moment. Will holler if I've got any Q's or comments. o7
mod6: Did build keccak vtools on cuntoo, whole ffa tree verifies there. pressed just through chapter 1, did a gprbuild on that first chapter, no errors, works great.
mod6: asciilifeform: You may be correct. trinque and I were discussing it, there may have been others. Just wanted the republic to know that I didn't vaporize, nor forget.
mod6: This month has been insane-level busy for me, but I'll try to get my head around it by month-end so I can speak to the topic intelligently.
asciilifeform: neato mod6 . possibly i misaddressed the q , and it was someone else who was working on this, i gotta look again in the log
mod6: There are probably others in the Republic more versed in these things, but I'll still try to learn more about it this month regardless.
mod6: Read through and digested the first chapter of ffa, just need to add my seal to your blog when I have a spare few minutes. Regarding the irc stuffs, I've one time, stood up a ircd-hybrid and connected it to a friends of the same as a "peer".
a111: Logged on 2019-04-16 15:40 asciilifeform wonders re status of the 'escape from fleanode' proj..
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-16#1908650 << Hi there! A brief synopsis of what I've been working on with my limited time over the last couple of weeks here; Read-up about ave1's GNAT, built it, deployed to cuntoo successfully, a blog post is forthcoming as a bit of a summary of what I did there.
BingoBoingo: "Me gustaría pesos" (hands cash, recieves other cash)
BingoBoingo: I've never been asked for ID at a Cambio to change currency either direction
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: oddly enuff in ro 100% asked for passport ( whether this is always, or simply cuz asciilifeform looked like rube -- nfi )
mp_en_viaje: people could give less of a shit about the retarded states of america and its pompous pretense, somehow, maybe. not sure how exactly.
mp_en_viaje: btw, in other mp disposes, the world executes : been changing dough all over without any id. germany usd to eur ("do you need id ?" "nah" "can you do 5k ?" "if that's what you want..."), hungary eur to huf, you name it.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: these iirc tend to be dug along side railroad right-of-way. in europistan, a++. in ameristan, on other hand..
mp_en_viaje is preparing another photopost
mp_en_viaje: legend has it they're as thick as a subway tunnel
mp_en_viaje: pretty much all of yurp. the german rings
BingoBoingo: There's outposts in the interior with fiber, but the demographics gotta be right http://www.highlandcommunicationservices.com/HCSResInt.php
asciilifeform: none of the stated excuses really pass laugh test, either ( 'ohnoez, expensive to rip up asphalt' -- but they do it all year long, for 0 actual reason, largely to keep up 'road work doubles traffic fines' thing they have going in many states )
asciilifeform: if you want fiber, it's 100+/mo for ~minimal~ bw , and then only in (small %) of the habitable coasts
BingoBoingo: Maybe Notre Dame didn't want to be what France became anymore and went the "an hero" route