asciilifeform: ( the concept of 'memory protection', for instance, is entirely a product of the tardlang )
asciilifeform: re gcc, the obv. 1st reaction 'so fucking make it all conform to standard' leads nowhere, you cannot write e.g. a device driver in 'standard c' , as it dun give you even such basic thing full bitwise control of struct
asciilifeform: i.e. there is not and cannot be such a thing as a nontrivial c/cpp proggy that 'uses only what is in the standard'
asciilifeform: bvt: as for c, i described in the prev. mp thread re the subj, it can certainly ~exist~ as a zoological specimen on sane iron, as it did on bolix. sorta how you can put cobol on yer box nao if you feel like it.,
asciilifeform: ( how to build it -- asciilifeform and many other people know ; how to ~pay~ for building it, presently no one knows )
a111: Logged on 2019-04-24 14:36 mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909529 << the idea isn't to get tcc to compile ada. the idea is to destroy gcc -- cut the "useful compilation half" into an ada compiler ; cut the shitlands compilation half into a small weight something else. there is no republican future for gcc as a gcc in the foss / linus-stallman sense of the term.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-25 10:19 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909943 << so far, "cuntoo" is the name we use for the republican os. this item will exist ; the question reduces to "how much work should i put into the framewire model of the future house". by this or some other name, all work we will ever put into tmsr os will go into wjat would currently be called "cuntoo"
bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-25#1909969 << that clarifies the issue, thanks. i got momentarily confused because imho cuntoo (as gentoo repo snapshot) is too large to pull off http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909621 - i see no way to replace gcc with tcc and 'rebuild world' without rewriting ebuilds/getting a ton of errors; but should be realistic with something smaller (which i plan to do).
PeterL: proof-reading welcom, I included a link to the pdf in a footnote
asciilifeform: ( not a specific criticism of ^item, but rather the unfortunate reality of 'meat ocr' )
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 23:03 asciilifeform: ^ and before mp asks, yes it's combo of manual typewriter and ink pen, and no it won't in a million years ocr, other than by meat ( and is largely schematics / waveforms anyway )
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909564 << speaking of meat-driven OCR, I de-pdf-ed the miller-rabin paper: http://peterl.xyz/2019/04/probabilistic-algorithm-for-testing-primality/
feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/08c-feedbot-iii.html << The Tar Pit -- Feedbot [iii]: the IRC bot
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/04/pantsuitist-loots-ngo-lobbying-to-get-un-job-gets-job-un-and-fucks-ngo-all-while-thinking-of-the-children/ << Qntra -- Pantsuitist Loots NGO Lobbying To Get UN Job, Gets Job UN And Fucks NGO All While Thinking Of The Children
BingoBoingo: In local news, derps *really* want to chase Petrobras out... Despite Bras having hydrocarbons and the derps not https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/blog-en-vivo-segui-las-novedades-sobre-el-control-obrero-en-montevideo-gas-201942584431
asciilifeform: ( and the approx answer is, defo not zero -- right nao the choices consist of ye olde unix and this )
a111: Logged on 2019-04-24 17:13 asciilifeform: the orig nvidia simulators noosepiece , ftr.
mircea_popescu: who might you be then ?
mircea_popescu: if, in the flow of that work, we discover something important enough that it requires a change of direction significant enough to actually use a new name, it's still improper to say the work put into finding the something was either lost or "not put into ultimate product".
a111: Logged on 2019-04-24 20:47 bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909552 << i grok this. the question is, how much work should go into cuntoo?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909943 << so far, "cuntoo" is the name we use for the republican os. this item will exist ; the question reduces to "how much work should i put into the framewire model of the future house". by this or some other name, all work we will ever put into tmsr os will go into wjat would currently be called "cuntoo"
mircea_popescu: and incidentally, trinque 's otp way the fuck smarter than gpg's ascii armor format, slavegirl reports. degree of magnitude faster wetware diode if one needn't handle the shift.
BingoBoingo: Apparently an African swine fever is ripping through China and killing their pork in positive local news.
BingoBoingo: In local news the courts are the only thing keeping natural gas running in the country. https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/justicia-prohibio-en-forma-definitiva-control-obrero-a-sindicato-del-gas-201942417033
asciilifeform: bvt: ha, i was quite certain i'd seen the fella before. turns out ~this~ was where.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-24 16:49 mp_en_viaje: bvt, do not despair, even if these do not work out, they're still worth doing. depressing as it may be, at least we know, at least we do the homework, etc.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-24 16:51 asciilifeform: prolly the most valuable vlsi likbez i've found to date, even beats the ancient carver mead schoolbook in some ways
a111: Logged on 2019-04-24 15:54 asciilifeform: re the 1801 thing -- moar interestingly , author was not content to merely dig up ancient docs, but apparently decapped the dies and verified that these in fact correspond to the physical artifact
bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909683 << do you mean the pdf/word in the vm1 directory? or whole repo with e.g. http://archive.is/E2iex#selection-3535.0-3561.54 ? if there is a single document, i'd definitely read
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 22:28 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909527 << currently i suspect that tcc & similar is a mirage; and that an actual serious solution would moar resemble the bolix approach, where you have a proper lisp and a ~compact~ + readable c-to-lisp ~in~ it for use with legacy crapola while-needed
bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909552 << i grok this. the question is, how much work should go into cuntoo?
BingoBoingo: Cuba held after the soviet union's fall for what seems to be the same reason. The Latinos who didn't want it already left.
BingoBoingo: Anyways. Any group of organized men in Vzla have more to win from more Maduro than they have to win by defecting
BingoBoingo: And were the old bags in a rush to take up arms against anyone?
mp_en_viaje: most ridiculous thing anyone coudl imagine, the sarah bernards of 2010s argentina
mp_en_viaje: yes. old women "theatrical stars"
BingoBoingo: I mean, when you were in Argentina, did you see strong tribal identities outside of the outsider communities?
BingoBoingo: Do the cocaine folks want Maduro or USG.CIA who will surely steal their product and attack them.
BingoBoingo: And the old word folks had centuries to faction up. In the new world when the Latinos faction up generally its about drug business instead of holy war.
a111: Logged on 2014-03-21 17:44 asciilifeform: 'When the glorious Muammar Kaddafi, in his blue bournouse, or in his uniform, appear on the telly, the domesticated inhabitant of the sanitaria jerks from fright. 'Monster,' 'terrorist,' 'evildoer,' public enemy number one - the media calls him, led by its disdain for all that is envigorating (and, on top of it all, foreign), and pushed by false information supplied by CIA... ...his very existence is a rebuke,
BingoBoingo: Well the Colonel was outwardly warlike, and... succession problem. If Maduro kicks it there's probably someone from the pipefitter's union to take the reigns.
mp_en_viaje: a forty-something galivanting about the world having girls strip naked in the middle of the mall to try on slutwear and kneeling in supermarkets is very unlike an eighty-something visiting new york in his tent.
mp_en_viaje: the problem, i suspect, was that he was getting old and had no succession. at least that was my understanding of the collapse at the time.
mp_en_viaje: i dunno the problem was anything to do with that, gaddafi was the paragon of non-alligned warlike. he even enaged in very meaningful pre-mp cultural war, what with his tall busty harem girls and whatnot.
BingoBoingo: As far as I can tell Maduro is more entrenched than any of the Middle Eastern strongmen the US targetted.
BingoBoingo: Then there's the decades the Colonel had getting comfortable because the thought Europe wanted him to keep Africa in Africa. Maduro's always had the US beast bearing down on him, entire regime has had to be kept on a war footing.
mp_en_viaje: anyway. "western coallition" days are entirel ythe fuck over, no doubt about that. failed in turkey, failed in venezuela, there's 0 left for them.
BingoBoingo: It's the argentine thing where the bottom 2/3 of the population in Vzla is incapable of disagreement. Evil yankees keeping us down... etc.
mp_en_viaje: the intervening decade must bear most of the brunt of the explanation, otherwise i simply dun see it. maduro is no fucking gaddafi are you kidding me ?
BingoBoingo: Well, wins the elections by big margins. Allows local "collectivo" groups of men broad authority.
mp_en_viaje: but anyway, pretty epic case of co-opting usg.blue's "orange revolution" material into court fucktoy / clown. i suppose he got the typically pantsuit fake opposition as cheaply as could be had.
mp_en_viaje: fucking turned things around, this idiocy. i had nfi maduro is actually popular. i still half don' tbelieve it. but hard to argue with the facts.
BingoBoingo: Well, Maduro is very popular in Vzla. Actually has the police protecting Guaidó from the angry mobs at his rallies.
mp_en_viaje: very unexpected at mp central ; wouldnt have made the book this way in a mn years.
mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo, so far i must say im quite impressed with the approach. maduro somehow beats gaddafi in the field ?!
asciilifeform: they oughta have separate www, 'diddit'
BingoBoingo: Maduro seems to be following the "why jail him when everyone can see all the nothing he's capable outta cuffs" theory
BingoBoingo: Maduro's letting the derp go derping about impotently.
mp_en_viaje: http://trilema.com/2015/heres-what-they-dont-tell-you-when-they-bring-you-those-papers-to-sign/#selection-119.156-119.326 much ?
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: iirc they switched to 'let's hijack vz embassies abroad' algo
BingoBoingo: https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/news/a4018/ekaterina-rybolovleva-juan-sartori-skorpios-wedding/ << The candidate and the wife
mp_en_viaje: and speaking of harvard educated failures, what ever became of the "internationally recognized" redditpresident of venezuela ?
a111: Logged on 2019-04-24 16:38 BingoBoingo: Well guy allegedly polling third in the National Party is Satori with the Russian oligarch wife and legal marijuana bsns selling the pharmacy schwag.
BingoBoingo: The young one is a cucky dude
a111: Logged on 2019-04-24 16:40 BingoBoingo: The old Pantsuitist Party the Colorados have a nearly 90 year old former President running even in their polls with some young derp. Colorados don't ever break 15% in intention to vote.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909709 << is she hawt ? did i miss the qntra pics of her (hopefully closely shaved) snatch ?
mp_en_viaje: at which point the olteni are a little taken aback, and one guy in the 2nd rank whispers in boss' ear
mp_en_viaje: "but do you understand there's more than a billion chinese people living in peace bla bla bla ?"
mp_en_viaje: they send some people over, to negotiate. "why do you want to go to war with us ?"
mp_en_viaje: chinese folk spend a while trying to figure out wtf happened, eventually manage to spot this Oltenia on german wehmacht maps from the 1800s.
asciilifeform still has a... towel. that father bought in bucharest, where it came from china -- in contravention of sovok fatwa
mp_en_viaje: there's a small ethnic group in sw romania, "olteni". one day they declare war to china.
mp_en_viaje: drove people up the fucking wall, "what the fuck is wrong with these people". warlike gnat...
a111: Logged on 2019-04-24 16:36 asciilifeform: y'know, back when there were ~2~ reichs handing out 'phree' ambulances
a111: Logged on 2019-04-24 16:30 asciilifeform: the kind that is from orcistan to start with
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909699 << lotta these. the us shitversities exist principally through this orc anointment process these days. not that it'll last, but that's pretty much the last remaining octopus leg, not ablated yet.
mp_en_viaje: unions exist specifically because "it's not clear to us anymore that owning the machinery means owning the slaves attending the machinery" ; and i don' tmean clear to the slaves. i mean clear to the ~owners~.
mp_en_viaje: the whole "i just want to" item is just an artefact of this same problem ; examtaking is just a manifestation of the same behaviour. the principal-agent problem is the same damned thing. the brokenness of domestic arrangements in the us flow from the very simple "it
mp_en_viaje: in the end, the relationship between capital and power is the principal bojum of ourdemocracy, however you turn it.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-24 16:29 asciilifeform: old man soros wrecked ru ~entirely via 'gifts' liek this, to the point that still not cleaned up 20y later
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909696 << considering how fucking worried the pantsuits are about gifts (the whole "foundation" wank exists specifically to insulate them from the gifting etc), nobody is surprised trojan gifting'd be their principal outreach strategy.
asciilifeform: ( fiber is a++ winner, it dun give a shit re capacitance, inductance, other devils of high-freq copper cabling )
a111: Logged on 2019-04-24 16:29 asciilifeform: old man soros wrecked ru ~entirely via 'gifts' liek this, to the point that still not cleaned up 20y later
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909696 << considering how fucking worried the pantsuits are about gifts (the whole foundation"
mp_en_viaje: nor is it clear anyone did any serious work on them past 30 years.
asciilifeform: i half-expected 1 or other would be trotted out when 'moor's law' dead. but turned out to be cheaper to simply tell konsoomer to suck it.
asciilifeform: there's half dozen or so 'golden toilet' processes.
mp_en_viaje: yeah there was a galena thing
asciilifeform: it's the champ, to date, of 'clock at any cost'
asciilifeform: they had gigabit+ optic transceiver in '90 or so.
mp_en_viaje: possibly because for a long time the optic modems slow.
asciilifeform: ( i.e. mp_en_viaje is not the 1st to notice the absurdity of plugging a 2kg, 200watt eater into pc mobo )
asciilifeform: '200fps' game fanatics, 'gpu shitcoin' mining people, etc. -- buy by the traincar
asciilifeform: these became off-shelf product in last coupla yrs
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, i'm not necessarily discussing the electricity draw ; but the thermic leak trough the connectors.
asciilifeform: it's why you pump air through the thing like vacuum cleaner neh
a111: Logged on 2019-04-24 17:03 mp_en_viaje: the radeon things, yes, which is why they were never nearly as watt-efficient etc.
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909764 << There was a window where the Radeons were much more efficient when it came to mining. Depended on the flavor of math getting fed to the card. AMDs loved the repetative bland stuff.
mp_en_viaje even has old agp vidcards, they draw about 35-50.
asciilifeform: i actually have a (heathenisms) box here with '1070'
mp_en_viaje: these be some 1999 cards lol
asciilifeform: ( even nvidia's cards do not, they have hdd connector for +v )
asciilifeform: no melted caps, simply won't draw on 4096x4096 3d glass display at 200fps or what's the latest wankfad.
mp_en_viaje: anyway, to sum up this thread before it runs away from us : i expect that if you design your own gpu, and we compare it (through what, who knows, maybe by then phf comes up with a magical differ that woerks on circuit designs) to the top of the range efficiency gpus (~100% of them nvidia products, tho not 100% of the nvidia products) you'll discover they're very similar.
mp_en_viaje: the problem is tho, this doesn't even mean much. by the time tech corp hires senior techs on market, its name becomes hp and their name becomes carly fiorina, the future president of the us.
mp_en_viaje: yes, but they always hired entry level.
mp_en_viaje: not like we have good words to discuss synthetically the subject matter. tho i'd very much like to.
mp_en_viaje: whereas this is, "squarier" however the fuck shall i say this.
mp_en_viaje: but the thing i interpreted that "tumour mass" you talked about to mean was this specific pattern, a sorta circular bundle.
asciilifeform: hand-sewing ups the nre cost ~100x.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: lacking even photograph, i cannot pontificate in further detail re nvidia. but also do not automatically conclude on acct of 'faster than amd's' that it were hand-sewn.
mp_en_viaje: (note, i'm not even remotely saying 100% hand-made. but they had ~something~, that afaik was never found. and it sure as fuck wasn't just a software layer on whatever off the shelf verilogizer.
asciilifeform: the analogue / dsp folx, still occasionally do it.
asciilifeform: it is entirely not the case that 'no one' hand-massages. but the items with 3bil+ transistors, it is rather impractical proposition to do this for.
asciilifeform: when you see 'tumour mass', that there's autorouter at work.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: if you ever get hold of a die shot, it is possible to distinguish with naked eye, when 'compiled from rtl' and when 'hand-massage' . practical example of the former : https://s.zeptobars.com/baikal-Si.jpg
mp_en_viaje: and admittedly nvidia also had some shittier chips in this vein. but they also had a skunkworks core that did something that i dunno what it is.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, nah, listen to me, there's a lot of ways to prove this, including the massive gap in efficiency between the competition and nvidia's chips
asciilifeform: ( their designs only ever exist as rtl, starting from 'pentium pro' )
a111: Logged on 2019-04-17 19:49 asciilifeform: asic is a high enuff risk biz that the people who do it, are conservative to the point of 'if this exact thing hasn't been done before, fughetaboutit'
asciilifeform: nao i did not walk in and see it used. but would be surprised to learn that it wasn't, the temptation is irresistible , on acct of sheer heft of the risk in the biz
asciilifeform: they're actually an off-the-shelf item, asciilifeform at one time nearly bought a 2ndhand unit
mp_en_viaje: not even for prototyping, they had some inhouse thing i could never pin down
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i know for a fact that they do.
asciilifeform: ( it is interesting, imho, they ~could~ rearrange the cells , but do not, it requires skilled labour )
mp_en_viaje: nah. nvidia never "verilog synthed"
asciilifeform: this includes the konsoomer gpus.
asciilifeform: most of what's baked at e.g. tmsc, is 'verilog synthed' i.e. essentially same as fpga but w/ masked config bits.
asciilifeform: the # of folx who remember how to custom-draw transistors, is quite small.
mp_en_viaje: and what i'm saying is that any meaningful gpu will be very similar to extant items. i do not expect there is ~any meaningful overlap, from a purely graphical pov, between extant cpu and sane cpu.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, not necessarily a matter in those practical terms. a bike / ride-on lawnmower "suffices" as automobile, but it is still ~ridiculous~, specifically by the very poor fit of design to usage.
asciilifeform: ( ~suffice~ , rather than 'set speed records in guiness book' )
diana_coman: in rather insane bits, just counted the "parameters" of an actor entity in eulora's client and there's 40 of them without even counting that some of those are tuples.
asciilifeform: this is sorta the basic idea in e.g. ffa -- 'what's the simplest mechanism that will actually suffice'
mp_en_viaje: hashing gpus are hard to replace. if you organize the misery from say dimm to say ipad cpus, gpus are kinda the next-notable node from dimm up.
asciilifeform: really one only needs 2 types of ic in the box , fpga and voltage regulators...
asciilifeform: ... for that matter, pretty much the entire 'iron babel' of nic, gpu, raid, etc
a111: Logged on 2019-04-24 16:48 diana_coman: the whole C-thread reads... interestingly from the depths of planeshit client +crystalspace
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-24#1909719 << was thinking, as result of last wk's thrd, 'sane fpga could just as readily replace heathen gpu as cpu'
asciilifeform: ( tho folx have been wrong in the past, e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-30#1876229 )
asciilifeform: prolly the most valuable vlsi likbez i've found to date, even beats the ancient carver mead schoolbook in some ways
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: i did short walk through the linked www, believe or not, d00d in fact typed up some of the ancient docs into humanlike text
mp_en_viaje: bvt, do not despair, even if these do not work out, they're still worth doing. depressing as it may be, at least we know, at least we do the homework, etc.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-24 15:56 asciilifeform: !Q later tell bvt ty for digging up the 1801 materials; dun suppose you could get the author in here ?
diana_coman: the whole C-thread reads... interestingly from the depths of planeshit client +crystalspace
BingoBoingo: Talvi has a campaign office a block and a half away. The campaign office is topped by a billboard selling Luis
BingoBoingo: The USG-ist appearing candidates are the second place guy in the National Party, some fat old Potato whose name begins with L and the other Colorado Guy. Some cuck named Talvi.
BingoBoingo: Then there's about 20-40 fringe candidates spread across the major parties, their subdivisions, and the "why are they trying to compete on a national scale" parties
BingoBoingo: Then there's the Fat Forehead Party, their favored candidate is the cuck who was Mayor until he had to quit that job to campaign.
BingoBoingo: The old Pantsuitist Party the Colorados have a nearly 90 year old former President running even in their polls with some young derp. Colorados don't ever break 15% in intention to vote.
BingoBoingo: Well guy allegedly polling third in the National Party is Satori with the Russian oligarch wife and legal marijuana bsns selling the pharmacy schwag.
asciilifeform: y'know, back when there were ~2~ reichs handing out 'phree' ambulances
BingoBoingo: And that's the local "right wing" party
BingoBoingo: Well, frontrunner for the National Party nomination "Luis LaCalle Pou" had an uncle killed by the CIA in the 70's.
asciilifeform: ( famously , why was castro so hated by the lizards. cuz broke ranks b/w '2' and '3' )
asciilifeform: 1) attend clintonarvard 2) return to orcistan as 'appointee' 3) feather miaminest for 20y 4) decamp, profit!1
BingoBoingo: Unless they were getting paid with clean clinton corruption
asciilifeform: the kind that is from orcistan to start with
BingoBoingo unsure what Harvard Pantsuit would want the salary of a Uruguayo Minister
BingoBoingo: The entry point for used vehicles to Merosur is Paraguay anyways. They get them from the Japs and convert to American driver's position
asciilifeform: old man soros wrecked ru ~entirely via 'gifts' liek this, to the point that still not cleaned up 20y later
asciilifeform: if the orcs suddenly woke up to this being a bit much of a lopsided exchange for 1 rattled old meatwagen, perhaps some of'em even have sumthing like a brain
BingoBoingo: And the immune system kicks in because Uruguayo Pantsuits don't want to be replaced by US Pantsuits
BingoBoingo: Or so the group says. Nothing in the story about Uruguay not wanting junk vehicles dumped here (unless the junk vehicles are new Indian/Chicom bikes)
BingoBoingo: And the thing ending over a couple bucks for an apostille
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: !Q later tell bvt ty for digging up the 1801 materials; dun suppose you could get the author in here ?
asciilifeform: re the 1801 thing -- moar interestingly , author was not content to merely dig up ancient docs, but apparently decapped the dies and verified that these in fact correspond to the physical artifact
asciilifeform: and the report from metallurgist re why just-so molybdenum % , etc
asciilifeform: picture if yer bmw came with not only repair schematic but the calculations of the original designer re why cylinder head is this-wide etc
mp_en_viaje: ima have to sit down and read these sometime.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: 1st i saw the link to that thing, went 'eh, fossil', then went and ~read~, and 'wtf, where do i buy a chip with even half the doc of this'
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 23:12 asciilifeform: imho the so-called 'civilized' world ought to have to answer re why it failed to produce a product like this.
mp_en_viaje: the ~exact same process~ through which an acceptable republican artefact is constructed is the ~exact same process~ through which a mind grows into republican form. the way you convince us to use your proggy is the way 15yo learns how to write a proggy we'll use. and so fucking on forever.
mp_en_viaje: "bring your children to work day" fucking hell. how can children and adults be distinguished in this sense ? "oh, mp, we in ourdemocracy have arbitrary cutoffs, there's creative people and good at maths people and so on". "fuck you."
mp_en_viaje: but it is doubtless worth commenting upon how design-with-a-view-to-wot automatically resolves the "work/education '''disparity'''". ie, they "become" the same exact fucking thing that they were all along.
mp_en_viaje: at least now they have plain and self-obvious example of what ~should~ do with their life ; so it can't be said you lived in vain.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 23:06 asciilifeform would luvvv to read 'ffa-style' incarnation of such a work, where the chip is 'built up' from empty space in ~hour-long chunks. but prolly this won't exist until asciilifeform writes 1..
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909566 << who knows, maybe a 15yo now reading grows up to be useful, actual human being, as opposed to pantsuit mouthbreather.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 23:03 asciilifeform: ^ and before mp asks, yes it's combo of manual typewriter and ink pen, and no it won't in a million years ocr, other than by meat ( and is largely schematics / waveforms anyway )
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909564 << and the meat that'll do it will need a planet like saturn to live on.
mp_en_viaje: one of the major things we're working towards here is to construct the ada-centric self-hosting ecosystem.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 22:29 asciilifeform: to properly shoot the 'primacy of c' in the head, gotta remove the 'it is where the self-hosting happens' 1st and foremost.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 22:28 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909527 << currently i suspect that tcc & similar is a mirage; and that an actual serious solution would moar resemble the bolix approach, where you have a proper lisp and a ~compact~ + readable c-to-lisp ~in~ it for use with legacy crapola while-needed
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909552 << this is exactly what i fear we will discover scratching the surface of that magic crate ; as we so regularly have been discovering to date.
asciilifeform: as in the old sea story, 'move over, we are a 100,000 tonne battleship' 'no you move' 'no, you, we are battleship' 'we're a lighthouse'
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, or as buffett put it back in the day his brain still worked, "when a manager with a reputation for success attempts to tackle a problem with a reputation for intractability, it is the manager's reputation that ends up tarnished"
a111: Logged on 2019-01-03 19:24 stratum: If individuals want to communicate using heavily encrypted sneakernet to avoid NSA goons, that is certainly okay by me. But I don't see that happening for the billions any time soon.
mp_en_viaje: 'you write c on top of c and wanna talk to me about http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-03#1884206 ? keks. did your mother have any children who lived ?"
asciilifeform: ( iirc -- e.g. howard shrobe, 1 of the orig bolix people, went off into medicine. others -- elsewhere )
asciilifeform: sorta how there cannot be a serious engineer in liberia. ( why would he live in liberia )
asciilifeform: ye olde 'notation can cost 80 iq' item. the moment rms picked 'c machine' ecosystem, it after that did not matter one whit how capable/honest/etc were to be the participants. ( and, in practice, demonstrated -- the capable, honest folx, ran off to learn new professions , did not stick around to fiddle with pointerisms )
mp_en_viaje: and these aren't mere words. it is what i see these people as, from the last poettering to the foremost stallman or linus, including the whole menagerie of "i just wanted to suck dicks" anodyne anons, be they zx wharever or oj whatever or whichever other one.
asciilifeform: would've stayed settled, too, if they hadn't wrapped themselves around telephone pole.
asciilifeform: that's how (as described upthread) bolix settled the matter, in '83.
mp_en_viaje: the "let there be a javascript interpreter for c, call it tcc or w/e, people can play with if theyr'e bored" is really the outmost of concession i can make to what is, ultimately, a shameful, abortive and utterly reprehensible outgrowth on human culture = the totality of everyone involved in computer systems design and implementatio nfor the past few decades.
mp_en_viaje: thus therefore, i do not see the need to continue supporting c as a mental construct. even having to reimplement "everything" (ie, practically, nothing at all) from outside is preferable to an attempt at continuing c.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, in general, i do not see there's any need for having a musl gcc in the first place.
mp_en_viaje: yes, it's possible that someone living cca 2005 did something useful with their life, instead of "raising myspace awareness" or w/e the fuck they did back tghen.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: re 'gcc ladder', the orig boojum was the 'catch-22' where a musl gcc can only be built w/ another musl gcc , and the only working specimen trinque was able to find in the wild, was a gcc6
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 19:55 bvt: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909440 << this would involve getting binutils under our control - bigger part of these timestamps are added by ar/ld; tbh i even dunno if gcc is responsible for this at all.
mp_en_viaje: so, to answer the q : get as much as possible of system working on actual systems lang ; get AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE on tcc.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-17 14:10 mircea_popescu: now in other lulz, check this out : http://archive.is/89adR#selection-9.9948-9.10055 "This is a special mix of insertion sort and heap sort, optimized for the data sets that actually occur."
mp_en_viaje: in any case the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897382 nonsense will NOT outlive me.
mp_en_viaje: this "gcc is how you call the universal compiler" is cut of the same cloth as "the united states is the name good people give to truth, beauty, and everything good" -- of no import or interest, past pure comedic "lmao check those country bumpkins out, they really believe god was born in mobile"
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 19:44 bvt: the problem with these both approaches is that it's impossible to get gnat/ada that way - gnat was bootstrapped from some commercial ada compiler in ~1994, and is self-hosted since that times. (well, impossible by definition with just tcc)
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909529 << the idea isn't to get tcc to compile ada. the idea is to destroy gcc -- cut the "useful compilation half" into an ada compiler ; cut the shitlands compilation half into a small weight something else. there is no republican future for gcc as a gcc in the foss / linus-stallman sense of the term.
mp_en_viaje: so a light and cheap shithead-interpreter
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: see further downthread, expanded on this.
mp_en_viaje: the whole point is to turn c into what it actually is -- a sort of javascript the niggers to rakim'd in the head to use computers keep pissing out.
asciilifeform: aha but if it's a given that driver is a monkey -- then the cab had better have no wheels.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 19:19 lobbes: After that, I'm going to start working on re-implementing the auto-bidding functionality (which will also be a vpatch)
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile ustards fucked the model, but this doesn't mean it went away as a model. quite possible the chinos get it, made themselves plausibly-denied federation.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 18:44 BingoBoingo suspects the one state different systems treatment of Chinese "special administrative regions" is an effect of the anti-strategic Chinese languages. They want resort playground with different rules to play and hedge in, when the leases expired back to them they just sorta let the places happen.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909511 << this is quite possibly just on point. the original us design, federal with independent states, was strong (and shewed its strength) specifically because of this.
mp_en_viaje: and might i say btw tha tthe new linking log scheeme is a fucking pleasure to use.
asciilifeform: iirc there was even a fella who flew, for yrs, not only w/out ticket, but... as pilot. ( said, 'hi i am pilot', no one asked for diploma for decade+ )
mp_en_viaje: well, lufthansa dropped the ball, so i went munchen-budapest w/o plane tickets yes.
mp_en_viaje: tbh, the whole "border" thing is becoming mostly a joke.
asciilifeform: funnily enuff, BingoBoingostan installed facewank. they dun stamp anyffin at all.
mp_en_viaje: but this was the system then. which is what im saying, the face wank is an upgrade, not a new system
mp_en_viaje: at the time they gave you this piece of paper when you came in, to give them back when you leave.
mp_en_viaje: "like fucking hell you can't ; drive". so she does cuz more affraid of dood in car than vague theoretical doods at us border. who come swarming in, "why is car driving TOWARDS us side on exit". and so i give them the shit, whatever it was
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 18:38 feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/04/us-prepares-to-tackle-illegal-immigration-with-facial-recognition-wank-for-folks-leaving-the-us/ << Qntra -- US Prepares To Tackle Illegal Immigration With Facial Recognition Wank For Folks LEAVING The US
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909502 << you know, last i left the us, 2005ish or so, it was a fucking lulz... so fucking empty, i had to forcibly turn mexicana cab driver around, to get to the guy i had to give whatever paper to.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 18:20 asciilifeform: ( and that none of these hang off the net, elementarily on acct of clock too slow to run even 10M/s nic.. )
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909486 << same exact way i do. you just go, what the fuck are they going to do.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 16:51 BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909472 << Well he had his opportunities to demonstrate helpfulness, but apparently he has issues with that. Anyways the locals obsess over the "careers" they get in school, have the very US pre-2008 expectation that they get to neatly slot into those careers (not that this worked in the US outside of that brief window in the 1950s, but the 2008 crisis is when the media narrative changed to counter the
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909478 << very 1990s ro naivite this. i guess they'll figure it out in their own time.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-23 16:44 BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-23#1909375 << This was exceptional in that it involved the uniform wearing sort of troop as opposed to the known to be incredibly successful irregular forces.
a111: 2019-02-19 <ave1> Btw asciilifeform, I had to switch my cheap NFS account to a more expensive one as php 5.6 is no longer supported in their new setup. I expect that sometime, at the end of this year, 5.6 will also disappear from "production" sites.