ascii_butugychag: well if you think about it, the way we have it now is actually more complicated
mod6: ascii_butugychag: you mean, atoms in the sense of vpatches only for individual source files touched?
ascii_butugychag: (the objects where ---whatever, HASH +++whatever, HASH)
mircea_popescu: jurov dump (the vpatch & seal) out to
ascii_butugychag: has anyone a position on whether patches oughta be broken into atoms ?
mod6: its a good start to just not mangle the filenames -- thats all set now right?
jurov: it will publish and otherwise ignore it, I will tell everyone to add it to their v repository by hand.
ascii_butugychag: what i say is that REGARDLESS of the names, if THE CRYPTO is valid, it is a VALID patch/seal tuple.
ascii_butugychag: in EXACTLY same way as my trb node does THE SAME amount of number crunching whether it hears a block from gavin's node or from mircea_popescu's.
ascii_butugychag: i have to do THE SAME amount of verification work.
ascii_butugychag: this means that at no point do ~i~ get to do less verification ~because of something the mirror host does~ - e.g., verify mailed in patches
ascii_butugychag: the other thing i oughta mention is that imho a core principle of v-ism is that it is impermissible for trust to be implicitly delegated.
mod6: any way the real sig name is currently "bitcoin-asciilifeform.1.vpatch.mod6.sig" not <+jurov> only the question what is the '1' in bitcoin-asciilifeform.1.mod6.vpatch.sig doing there
ascii_butugychag: after a certain point, there oughta be a new genesis.
ascii_butugychag: the O(N^2) instrinsic runtime of unknown-patch-bag+unknown-sig-bag is something i realized from the start
jurov: so if there is a RFC someday you're against specifying filename convention?
ascii_butugychag: but then you get O(N^2), yes.
ascii_butugychag: (or rather, a slightly improved 'v' will run, existing one requires patch name to remain same)
ascii_butugychag: the fortunate thing is that it is NOT
ascii_butugychag: actually in that case i've no idea, iirc mod6 put it there
ascii_butugychag: PeterL: this is the EXISTING convention, yes
ascii_butugychag: the .asciilifeform.sig IMMEDIATELY tells you that asciilifeform signed the thing before the .
ascii_butugychag: so i don't see what the point is of this change
ascii_butugychag: it relates ONLY to the seal
ascii_butugychag: that .mod6. does not belong in the vpatch name
ascii_butugychag: give example of the result ?
jurov: ok, why can't the .vpatch and author fields swap?
ascii_butugychag: i wrote v the way i did so that ALL patches and ALL seals can coexist on my disk and it be HUMAN-obvious which belong to whom and what.
jurov: but this is Not Possible, now I have to parse the patchname out, and use that to look for sigs
ascii_butugychag: because it will end up trying to overwrite every OTHER sig
jurov: i want filename.vpatch that i can just take and slap .sig in the end of it to find a signature
ascii_butugychag: there is no way around this.
ascii_butugychag: if you want the filenames to be garbage, you will have O(N^2) evaluation.
jurov: i just have some random bunch of name.vpatvh and somethingother.sig someone sends by email
ascii_butugychag: i could even see the argument that 'signer' oughta be a gpg fp
ascii_butugychag: and realize that we can set all the filenames to 'fuckyou' and v will still work
jurov: someonse sends 3 patches with 3 sigs, I either have to get the match with gnarly regext above
ascii_butugychag: using the .name.sig convention
ascii_butugychag: the correct way to do this is for the first seal to be deedbotted to produce the attribution of the author.
ascii_butugychag: only the signer-name is machine-parsed
ascii_butugychag: the author name is for human eyes only
ascii_butugychag: why not FIX THE ML
jurov: then use dot after authorname, too
ascii_butugychag: what the hell is wrong with . ?
jurov: is it too late to use some better delimiter to extract the parts?
ascii_butugychag: so go ahead, don't parse, but then enjoy waiting
ascii_butugychag: jurov: theoretically you can avoid using the name prior to .sig, but then you have to check ALL seals agains ALL patches ALWAYS and this is O(N^2)
ascii_butugychag: these, ideally, will NOT always be the same, i keep trying to encourage folks to read and sign MY patches (and that of others)
ascii_butugychag: jurov, mod6: i designed the naming convention this way deliberately
mod6: which, i think is fine because then i can sign that patch and call it: asciilifeform-kills-integer-retardation.vpatch.mod6.sig
mod6: that's how they need to be.
jurov: or V requires author's name in the suffix?
jurov: why the second .asciilifeform ?
mod6: that's how they need to be
mod6: <+jurov> oh when i see it: trinque and everyone, pls send detached signatures as <name>.sig << for V to work properly the sigfiles (seals) need to be named the same as the vpatch filename with a .sig on the end. is that what you're saying?
jurov: ml currently passes all attachments regardless when there is valid clearsigned text but it may not always the case
shinohai: I'm gonna give those a go today on the server, it's idle since I got latest patched.
mod6: Attention TRB Testers: If you want to help test, please take the time to build trb via trinque's makefiles here; http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000190.html (Should be basically getting & verifing the tar ball; plus setting up a ~/.wot dir with keys for V to use) -- then a `make` in the directory. Please report your findings. Thanks.
assbot: Logged on 05-05-2013 09:52:31; mircea_popescu: perhaps gavin, but only on the condition that he keeps quiet a lot on most issues.
mircea_popescu: since i'm doing the documentation for an ample piece, here's random unrelated lulz : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2013#16124
mircea_popescu: there's a simple privacy breaking thing where a site feeding you a bunch of favicons can figure out where you've been by looking at which you load.
mircea_popescu: jurov lots of holes with the favicon thing.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
shinohai: ;;later tell BingoBoingo I emailed f2pool, asked for their key and an invite to #b-a. May the fates be with you.
jurov: "It's really amazing that Chrome and Safari don't have a sanity check for the size of a favicon. When I load the root of this website on safari, the favicon automatically gets fetched...fetched..."
jurov: (the site won't crash it but describes a simpel way how)
punkman: "the official exchange rate is 6.3 bolivars to the dollar. n the streets, a money changer will be happy to buy your dollars for 700 bolivars a piece." nice ratio
BingoBoingo: Some people just can't go all the way
mircea_popescu: "how do you spell illiterate ?" "look it up in the dictionary." "how am i going to look it up if i don't know how to spell it ?!"
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Broom+Stick | broomstick. v. Lie your female partner on her back, grab your nutsack and put it in her vagina while grabbing your penis with both hands, one over the other (in ...
BingoBoingo: But yes, they get lots of planned holidays
BingoBoingo: Martin Luther King day
mircea_popescu: the us banks seem to be getting more holidays than argentina
BingoBoingo appreciates the timing of this latest broomstick to happen with a US banking holiday on Monday
mircea_popescu: (who the fuck knew - nurses are like the one profession with the largest bdsm bent, it's HUGE.)
mircea_popescu is doing his part by extracting young hottie nurses from the system.
assbot: We Talked to a Witch Who Casts Viruses Out of Computers With Magic | Motherboard ... ( http://bit.ly/1Pa0JuS )
punkman: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/we-talked-to-a-witch-who-casts-viruses-out-of-computers-with-magic
BingoBoingo: This really is how the US will fall. The few will be unable to keep with with the many who can not wipe their ass.
mircea_popescu: The first time I went to Chipotle was around 2004, when the then-novelty of a burrito chain opened within two minutes walking distance from my high school."
mircea_popescu: http://jezebel.com/i-will-eat-chipotle-until-it-fucking-kills-me-1753170975 << in even other news nobody cares about, the one thing mayo gendered retards aka web-feminists are dedicated to is eating dirt until they pop.
mircea_popescu: i think i'm ironically much more famous among the idiot us-democrat crowd than among the idiot us-republican crowd.
mircea_popescu: in other news nobody cares about, https://twitter.com/alazyreader/status/683066459849895936
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> ok but i mean, instead of article ? Ah. missed that it snuck in there. Need to check the front page more.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> iirc BingoBoingo once had something of the sort << I imagine ben_vulpes mac has color display greater than 9"
mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/brian_armstrong/status/688398372521168896 << this guy is the christina applegate of married-with-vcoinks.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo "Bitstamp has emailed users stating it has banned access from all IP addresses originating from the Russian Federation access to the Bitcoin exchange." << SHould be fixed
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 21:06:37; BingoBoingo: In this version, it is only enforced for peers that send protocol versions >=70011 . For the next major version it is planned that this restriction will be removed. It is recommended to update SPV clients to check for the NODE_BLOOM service bit for nodes that report versions newer than 70011." end powerspam
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374605 << this is actually a good move, and the logical reaction to ascii's ban. << It is, but prolly ought to make sure power ranger nodes don't drop our connecion if we're expecteded to pass some flag while running protocol version 99999
mod6: mircea_popescu: hey thanks for putting up your steps in the wiki
mod6: <+guruvan> mod6: that image I made last night isn't working - there's a fork at block 168000 that it's not liking << yeah this is the original v0.5.3 right?
assbot: ShapeShift | The fastest way to swap cryptocurrencies. No account required. ... ( http://bit.ly/2391DMp )
mircea_popescu: not aware that there'd by any memoirs. she was kinda young for that sort of thing.
mircea_popescu: she kept a blog years ago but didn't write much in it. she did write asylum with me, so there's that.
mircea_popescu: the only practical way to know google didn't fucking invent the un-shat-upon screen is to personally know the devs that had done it before. i suspect this is true of most "genius ideas".
mircea_popescu: https://archive.is/dwSkS#selection-241.0-259.119 << anyone remember how infoseek / altavista etc looked back in the day ?
mircea_popescu: As a solution, Ms. McCuller created her own search engine, an amalgam of other search sites that does not force the user to move slowly around the site and wade through advertisements to find the right place to enter a query. Search words are entered at the top of the page, and appropriate links are displayed above all other material as well. Users do not need to tab through extraneous material."
mircea_popescu: That is because the blind, even with text‑reading software, cannot glance at a page. There is no way for them to get a quick visual overview of a site�s contents and make mental notes about where it would be worthwhile clicking and exploring later. Rather, the blind must laboriously click from line to line, determining by a process of elimination where they want to go.
mircea_popescu: "Marti McCuller, a legally blind Web site developer, was frustrated by her difficulty in navigating through search engines. �My text‑to‑speech software let me read the various search sites,� she said, �but they often put so many links on a page it became hard to use.�
ben_vulpes: guruvan: what better route forward then? ubuntu 14.04?
guruvan: that's on today's agenda is to see why my glibc fails out of the latest portage :P
ben_vulpes downloading stage three for the...second? third? time today
ben_vulpes: 2 things drove this toolchain rebuild: exwm and tri-on-the-metal.
ben_vulpes: "why gentoo?" asked $bzprtner, "is that the best linux thing around for working on mega-c projects?" "no, it's simply the least-worst and has a snowflake's chance of working"
asciilifeform: iirc BingoBoingo once had something of the sort
ben_vulpes: chapter something in the story, yes asciilifeform
asciilifeform: is this the openbsd-on-old-mac thing ?
asciilifeform: well you said 'actual metal', so i wondered about the meaning
ben_vulpes is doing the same thing he's been doing for the past three weekends, building a sane development environment on actual metal
mircea_popescu: no, more like SHITFACE or DERPSTORM or whatever the fuck.
mircea_popescu: most of the time it's junk anyway, but hey, bureaucracy prevails!
asciilifeform: #6619 4862708 depends: bump miniupnpc and ccache << apparently upnp is still in the mix
guruvan: there some more docs on the rotor script? this looks like the mojo I'm looking for for the simple docker "whip up a node for testing" builds
asciilifeform: #6508 61457c2 Switch to a constant-space Merkle root/branch algorithm. << anybody have the time/energy to look? i don't...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> holy shit, year-old instructions ?!!1 << the link he gave references a log line by me from just before xmas.
guruvan: I was wondering about this when I saw this in the logs today (on classic?)
guruvan: seriously asciilifeform what's up there
guruvan: more or less tried all the pertinent commands - made sure it seemed set up right
guruvan: sorta - I think I have everything in the current mirror set all figured out - haven't tried to build anything outta that yet
mircea_popescu: lotta people suddenly got interested, caught us with the pants down in a very wrong spot to have pants down.
guruvan: mircea_popescu: docker image Dockerfile helps document buld process -that part of why I do these
asciilifeform: or the modern v-tronic build
asciilifeform: but iirc even therealbitcoin.org doesn't mention 'v'
guruvan: can I just build as per instrux here http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/the_real_bitcoin and
mircea_popescu: isn't that the bdb issue ?
guruvan: mod6: that image I made last night isn't working - there's a fork at block 168000 that it's not liking
asciilifeform: 'Previously, every wallet transaction stored a Merkle branch to prove its presence in blocks. This wasn't being used for more than an expensive sanity check. Since 0.12, these are no longer stored.'
asciilifeform: to other .onion nodes if the control socket can be successfully opened. This will positively affect the number of available .onion nodes and their usage. This new feature is enabled by default if Bitcoin Core is listening, and a connection to Tor can be made.' << l0l!!
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "Bitstamp has emailed users stating it has banned access from all IP addresses originating from the Russian Federation access to the Bitcoin exchange."
mod6: yeah, this seems to be the case on ubuntu & deb (iirc), only works on gentoo for me. you fixed this once iirc. but i've since lost the changes :/
asciilifeform: awk, rather
asciilifeform: my tentative conclusion is that the phoundation folk are making things explicit
mircea_popescu: so did a few other people.
asciilifeform: it very much is moar of the same.
asciilifeform: i went over the crud
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 22:12:09; BingoBoingo: In other news/goalposts power rangers appear to be targeting a complete OpenSSL excision by 0.13
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 22:05:27; BingoBoingo: Anyone with a better idea of how the network works want to look into the NODE_BLOOM business and see if the implementation is yet another effort to isolate our noadz
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374762 << nah. and http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374764 << this is sensible and a welcome idea, in general. tho i still dunno how much the proposed replacement's worth.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374742 << sharing one makes eminently little sense. you can't rent except by the gate.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 22:20:36; mod6: <+mod6> asciilifeform: hey, for a long time now I've been searching for the fix you provided to vdiff for debian/ubuntu; for some reason it barfs saying that there is an unmatched quote or something.
mircea_popescu: hm... it never made it to the chan this, did it ?
mircea_popescu: look at my most recent article, the curve is there and intuitively obvious what's meant.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 23:10:18; mircea_popescu: you have no reason to suspect FEWER boeings would be produced, or in use, if only one person in ten was a citizen, and the rest nine slaves.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374790 << ok 1 in 10 - is sane. the thing that melted my brain was the contention that five barons could have handmade silicon etc.
mircea_popescu: anyway. back in the day "warehouse" meant brick wall, etc.
mircea_popescu: middle of nowhere, but hey, it had natl road access right by the door.
asciilifeform: with the blue roof ?
mircea_popescu: ironically, the locals were kinda jealous of the guy, because it comes out that doing a 40 x 100 metre concrete slab and surrounding it in basically an elaborate, roofed fence costs less than building an actual house, and brought in rent slightly more.
mircea_popescu: but apparently this is standard these days.
asciilifeform: remember how i wanted to buy the dump ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i did! you wouldn't even fuck the eager gypsy girls!
asciilifeform: but admittedly the subject is of very little interest to people who aren't me.
asciilifeform: did this eventually, for the laser.
mircea_popescu: but then again i guess i never lived in civilisation.
mircea_popescu: i never lived in a fucking hovel where the heating wasn't vented, either outside the wall or in specially made vents ffs.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 23:22:46; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374700 << why the fuck would you even do unvented combustion.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 21:36:22; ben_vulpes: anyways, doesn't get hot enough to do the radiant trick, you end up heating the whole place instead of the place where you are.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374700 << why the fuck would you even do unvented combustion.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374632 << it's what they call "a psychological necessity".
mircea_popescu: for all you know the world of manufacturing was lots and lots more powerful back when trhey were supplying bach's needs than sepultura's.
mircea_popescu: for all you know the world where every derp and his ten dollars causes britney spears is the world where quality musical instruments do not exist.
mircea_popescu: there's nothing but fartware and wishful thinking backing this notion that "every idiot getting 10 dollars to spend is the best possible world", pangloss.
mircea_popescu: you have no reason to suspect FEWER boeings would be produced, or in use, if only one person in ten was a citizen, and the rest nine slaves.
mircea_popescu: again : the volume of production and the relationships between people are unrelated.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 21:21:26; asciilifeform: to even contemplate the notion that it doesn't matter, or to suggest that it is anything short of certain, betrays a deep ignorance of the actual making-things business as it stands for the last 200 yr.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 21:18:20; phf: (what the hell happened to linux ecosystem? 5-th tutorial on "openvpn on linux" is basically "make sure you have file a, file b and file c. now click open in open-gnome-vpn-assistant..")
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374627 << same thing that happens to "fridge ecosystem" once the engineer dies.
mod6: and blew away their pgp keys too.
mod6: <+mod6> asciilifeform: hey, for a long time now I've been searching for the fix you provided to vdiff for debian/ubuntu; for some reason it barfs saying that there is an unmatched quote or something.
mod6: asciilifeform: punindented was trying to help out a bit -- he hit that weird bug with vdiff on ubuntu or debian or something, when then reminded me that I lost your fix for that. I've searched through logs many times, can't seem to find it. I did actually ask yesterday too:
BingoBoingo: In other news/goalposts power rangers appear to be targeting a complete OpenSSL excision by 0.13
BingoBoingo: Anyone with a better idea of how the network works want to look into the NODE_BLOOM business and see if the implementation is yet another effort to isolate our noadz
phf: fwiw, i've ran it on large data before and it was constant faster then bsd awk that comes with os x
asciilifeform: who the everliving fuck uses mawk, and for what ??
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: the whole reason i did rotor was to thermonuke whatever dependencies there were on the crud on various people's boxes
ben_vulpes: did i hear that someone managed to get rotor to clobber their whole homedir?
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 20:54:44; mod6: instead, just pulled the source and built inside the rotor so it would be built with the gcc/musl that comes with buildroot
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374593 << mega-recommended approach. guaranteed to work unless something is SERIOUSLY broken with the WHOLE rotor.
asciilifeform: (unless you also station a platoon of orc-hunters therein)
asciilifeform: and anything you leave there is liable to be carted away or smashed.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 19:59:45; mircea_popescu: here she is asciilifeform : https://www.okcupid.com/profile/myrathe
asciilifeform: because the no-vermin thing comes FIRST
asciilifeform: anywhere in the world
ben_vulpes: anyways, doesn't get hot enough to do the radiant trick, you end up heating the whole place instead of the place where you are.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: electric is the *worst*
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: tried electric heat. blows out the breakers, the place is powered via extension cord
BingoBoingo: Really the solution is electric heat
ben_vulpes: only time i ever came close to death by co2 was operating the concrete cutter in someone's basement
asciilifeform: unless you burn motherfuckin hydrogen
ben_vulpes: you want the eye of sauron: mr heater mh15t
assbot: Add NODE_BLOOM service bit and bump protocol version by TheBlueMatt · Pull Request #6579 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1ZuhGj2 )
asciilifeform: i have what is supposed to be a spiffy propane heater in the workshop, it is not endurable for more than half hour or so
ben_vulpes: co poisoning not really an issue, it's a slow flow over some steel mesh, more or less everything burns off on the mesh going to co2
ben_vulpes: also blew crap all over the shop while i was finishing tables and whatnot, so eventually decommissioned.
ben_vulpes: pumped water through the furnace, up to our shop, and through an old car radiator with a fan behind it.
ben_vulpes: learned that turbo machinery is clearly the correct solution
asciilifeform: either
ben_vulpes: actually the waste oil furnace was pretty good
ben_vulpes regards the vast pile of oddities that sorta-worked
asciilifeform: like the one where semiconductors are made out of horse shit in medieval castles
asciilifeform: because those are the lands of magical pixies
BingoBoingo: "In initial implementations, old nodes which are not yet aware of NODE_BLOOM and use a protocol version < 70011 may still send filter messages to a node without NODE_BLOOM. This feature may be removed after there are sufficient NODE_BLOOM nodes available and SPV clients have upgraded, allowing node operators to fully close the bloom-related DoS vectors."
ben_vulpes: gotta kill the megastates first though.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: but that's perfectly pedestrian 'mad max' remnants-of-the-old, rather than ab initio 'for the 15k!1111'
ben_vulpes: ofc one could also do entirely away with the 'cc' part.
ben_vulpes: anyways an entirely viable future is one wherein the various lords with computing gear remaining in the closet operate their own bitcoind variants as local banks, holding chits for the peasants and reconciling over shortwave gpggram
asciilifeform: (where german tanks sank into the earth)
asciilifeform: to even contemplate the notion that it doesn't matter, or to suggest that it is anything short of certain, betrays a deep ignorance of the actual making-things business as it stands for the last 200 yr.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: i suppose they'd be more expensive, perhaps even too expensive to cost-effectively use.
phf: (what the hell happened to linux ecosystem? 5-th tutorial on "openvpn on linux" is basically "make sure you have file a, file b and file c. now click open in open-gnome-vpn-assistant..")
asciilifeform: the materials ?