ascii_butugychag: rather than vice-versa
ascii_butugychag: turns out that the '3' system was possibly saharov's idea
mircea_popescu privately bets alfie will mention the three russian stooges thing.
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: i think everybody remembers the o-rings
trinque: ascii_butugychag: sounds like a centralized CVS/SVN repo where sigs "vote" for what constitutes the master branch
mircea_popescu: remember ? the o rings ?
ascii_butugychag: it is not enough, for a classic bureaucrat, to avoid accountability; he has to put in scar tissue that gives the appearance thereof
mircea_popescu: lol, because mistakes, rather than people, are finite. gg.
mircea_popescu: so what would the paper car look like ?
ascii_butugychag: they have a bastardized pgp, for instance
ascii_butugychag: or does it even make sense to suppose that usg uses anything of the kind
ascii_butugychag: mircea_popescu: i've been wondering, what the nazi variant of 'v' might look like
punkman: PeterL: I guess you could rotate the log
mircea_popescu: well, so get in the wot, look into v and be happy.
AdrianG: thestringpuller: sure, random indian d00ds
thestringpuller: it's also better to pay them in 40s than actual money
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller he's technically correct, they just stole it and delivered it, but anyway.
mircea_popescu: anyone in business will prefer to write de novo rather than audit the dubious code of the crowd of idiot kids gathered around that buteriun dude.
mircea_popescu: AdrianG implementation is not per se valuable, for the sad reason that it is much cheaper to write code than to read it.
thestringpuller: except ethereum assumes all individuals in a contract act as machines. Better yet why not make them all machines!
AdrianG: thestringpuller: it differs in that an implementation already exists.
thestringpuller: AdrianG: how does this not differ from: "it works by ben_vulpes, sultan of brunei, and king of saud, sending each other pgpgrams with signed chits of how many tonnes of plutonium each owes the other."
AdrianG: and signing the normal ledger, is just a small part, programmability gives you a lot more flexibility to code business logic in.
AdrianG: ethereum as a cryptocurrency itself is probably useless.
PeterL: <AdrianG> cryptographically signed txn ledger will simplify parts of audits << why do they need etherum for this? just sign bits of the normal ledger as they are made, why do you need to involve cryptocurrency?
mircea_popescu: of course, the other way to automate regulatory bs is to ignore it until it goes away.
AdrianG: they can just basically automate a lot of regulatory compliance and cut out humans
mircea_popescu: AdrianG how does this make the window a strawman ?
mircea_popescu: o noes they terminated terminal! YOU BASTIDS
mircea_popescu: neveretheless... have you used it as a door ? will you ?
mircea_popescu: take your window, on the presumption that you are currently located in a room with one. this window of yours COULD be used as a door, to a larger degree than ethereum could be used to anything.
AdrianG: thestringpuller: i never argued against that.
thestringpuller: AdrianG: you're failing to realize how terminal the system is right now.
mircea_popescu: this is exactly why all the "oh, bitcoin needs x" "oh, bitcoin must or else Y will" bla bla is meaningless.
mircea_popescu: malformed, dysfunctional, self-contradictory, defeated propositions aren't better than the currently chosen broken one. the broken one hasn't been chosen on technical merit.
AdrianG: banks are drowning in legacy code. anything that helps them to move away from it is useful.
mircea_popescu: the comet W52C2 also "has legitimate uses".
AdrianG: mircea_popescu: i think a programmable ledger has legitimate uses. unfortunately for ethereum holders, those ledgers are going to be private and inaccessible from outside.
thestringpuller: Just the insane musings of a derp with too big of a head.
thestringpuller: They said that about Dib from Invader Zim and he obviously didn't amount to much.
AdrianG: thestringpuller: he's just very skinny
AdrianG: why is using something like ethereum insanity?
thestringpuller: Most Bitcoin VC cirus shows are like watching a very long episode of the Profit without Marcus Lemonis.
thestringpuller: AdrianG: there is sanity and insanity. You don't try to run a business with insanit expecting it to function.
AdrianG: thestringpuller: good is subjective. its just a perception.
mircea_popescu: the only problem with their "needs" is that their needs are a certain path to their own doom.
AdrianG: thestringpuller: as for bitcoin not doing what investors expect, ethereum can be shoehorned into their needs much more easily
mircea_popescu: heh, the usg can't afford to throw away half a bil just for this.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: guess that's how TaT made bank on the ASICMINER scam.
AdrianG: i remember at the peak of btc 2013 heights, litecoin was something around 11% of the btc marketcap
mircea_popescu: like every fashion-driven scam, gotta keep ahead of the wavefront, not sit behind.
gribble: The problem of too much money on Trilema - A blog by Mircea ...: <http://trilema.com/2012/the-problem-of-too-much-money/>; Money, fucking and lying on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/2014/money-fucking-and-lying/>; Let's dig a little deeper into this entire deflation "problem" on Trilema ...: <http://trilema.com/lets-dig-a-little-deeper-into-this- (1 more message)
thestringpuller: ;;google site:trilema.com the problem of too much money
mircea_popescu: AdrianG if what you aim is to make money out of the vc circus, you're very much in the wrong spot.
thestringpuller: Bitcoin isn't yieling what they have come to expect, so lets through fiat at Ehtereum and see what happens.
assbot: The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as "cryptocurrencies" on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1fsGWG5 )
PeterL: obligatory http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/
thestringpuller: that's because investors seem to be borderline scandalous these days.
AdrianG: ethereum could have short-term momentum due to investors interest, its far more preferable to mention it in corporate pitches vs bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: !s ethereum
mircea_popescu: terminal well, get in the wot and let us know how your trade went as far as long term gains.
terminal: I'm a software developer who is interested in the ecosystem, I see a lot of practicality in ethereum. Mostly I'm just looking for longterm gains
assbot: Logged on 19-01-2016 13:40:52; *: adlai notes, as a humorous aside, that someday there needs to be a rock-off between PeterL and PeterR
PeterL: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-01-2016#1376728 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-01-2016#1376731 << Later I realized why I missed the isomer joke: L is isomer of D, R is isomer of S, not quite interchangeable
mircea_popescu: wow check it out, the things that exist.
thestringpuller: Grand Central Station is the post office
thestringpuller: Grand Central Terminal is the train station
mircea_popescu: PeterL> y'all are a bunch of pansies, afraid of a bit of snow << ho i knew took a (well earned) vacation to morocco in the middle of the carpathian winter once. her fondest memory was that there was a tiny bit of snow just as she got ou of the bus, and everyone in sight was on their ass. "they have no idea how to walk on snow, the africans!"
ascii_butugychag: and dc metro dept. pulls interesting tricks - retains ~half the staff actually needed so that the remaining can work mandatory overtime and earn ~200K-usd
ascii_butugychag: as for why they'd close the trains, i cannot say except that the latter are in a historic state of disrepair.
PeterL: just don't drink the water if you are driving through Flint
thestringpuller: PeterL: your roads are also the worst thing to drive on ever.
thestringpuller: PeterL: You guys have more than 1 snowplow for the whole state.
ascii_butugychag: when there actually is some
ascii_butugychag: PeterL: normally. result is that the place is grossly underequipped for anything like reasonable snow, and traffic grinds to a halt
PeterL: what does DC get, like a half an inch at a time and they shut down? Up north here we don't blink at a foot of snow.
thestringpuller: ascii_butugychag: shouldn't you be at home. you don't want to get stranded in the uranium mines.
ascii_butugychag: also they sent usg home
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla since the infrastructure hasn'\t been maintained in 30 years.
ascii_butugychag: i would have ignored it but there was much noise about preemptive closing of the trains
mircea_popescu: someone should someday write the anthropological study about the impact of katrina in the media. it's when derping pointlessly about the weather went from ridiculous to social expectation.
ascii_butugychag: (there is supposed to be a snow fall tonight in this part of the world, train stations will close, etc)
ascii_butugychag: these are only marginally easier to read than to write...
ascii_butugychag goes to read the patch
ascii_butugychag: but they are not equivalent
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 15:49:34; mircea_popescu: unsigned char *pos = &vchSig[0]; << this takes the pointer pos and points it to what vchsig is
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 15:49:10; mircea_popescu: memcpy(&vchSig[0], pchSig, nSize); << so this takes nsize bytes from pchsig and copies them over where vchsig lies.
mircea_popescu: my question is : are these two in fact equivalent. because we can end up with surprises in this sort of change.
mircea_popescu: unsigned char *pos = &vchSig[0]; << this takes the pointer pos and points it to what vchsig is
ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380926 << this kind of sad is well-known from the 'hired welfare fella and now he's poorer' thing
mircea_popescu: memcpy(&vchSig[0], pchSig, nSize); << so this takes nsize bytes from pchsig and copies them over where vchsig lies.
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 12:42:36; mircea_popescu: and also, since we're taking out memcpy(&vchSig[0], pchSig, nSize); in favour of, from what i understand, unsigned char *pos = &vchSig[0]; are these actually and in fact equivalent ?
ascii_butugychag: in exactly the same sense that man who eats chicken is not a man-chicken chimera.
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 14:57:50; mircea_popescu: lots of bunnies grew ears on their back etc
ascii_butugychag: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1381007 << these were not chimeras ! but immunocompromised beasts
mircea_popescu: the problem with tests is that you can't test for something not happening.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> my one question, and not to mod6 in particular, is : can unsigned int nSize = ECDSA_size(pkey); be trusted to not fuck up the size ? << Not very "warm and fuzzy" on the openssl trust factor either. Would some tests or debugging help around this part?
PeterL: Biotech scientists now raising human–animal chimeras on U.S. farms ... << wasn't there already a thread about sheepfucking?
mircea_popescu: also someone tell newstarget.com that hostgator is stealing their 404s
mircea_popescu: lots of bunnies grew ears on their back etc
mircea_popescu: supposedly 4chan accepts bitcoin payments.... except when you go to pay them, they take paypal and the ccs. what sorta bs is this, are these people living in 2011 or somesuch ?
mircea_popescu: i'm sure if they could.
shinohai: also known as the creepy people that stalk you in city subway terminals hawking magazines.
mircea_popescu: in other news : the title for stealing the highest traffic website doesn't go to the derps you'd expect, but to the russkis equivalent. http://jw.org
mircea_popescu: but, in other news, http://49.media.tumblr.com/1b5f941158bb4e3e22703dbaed3a75a8/tumblr_nllissMVc81upsme5o1_400.gif
mircea_popescu: there must be some exaggeration involved, somewhere.
mircea_popescu: Steevo moaned, I cant even afford a pizza for the wife and kid on Friday night << the depth of the fucking disconnect. i wouldn't even eat what he calls pizza, if it were free. in fact i'd have serious compunction giving it to some begging dude.
mircea_popescu: but in any case the improvement over time is marked.
mircea_popescu: "On GamerGhazi, comments explaining that Jace was little more than an elaborate hoax were deleted, because they did not fit Wu's harassment narrative." <doh.
mircea_popescu: "The number of video views rose to almost 40,000 within a day" << sigh. this is notable in what fucking alt-world ? i remember the earlier days of "omaigerd teh interwebs matter" when the numbers destined to impress the reader were in the millions. by now it's as if "consensus" has been achieved around the proposition that such a statement is impressive period, and the number's irrelevant. 40k people viewed every singl
mircea_popescu: lazy kid and write down "student", look at a weirdo babbling and write down "threat report", the whole meta-state survives out of categorical confusion of this sort.
mircea_popescu: "If there is someone at this point who can look at Jace's insane rambling during this event and take it as a credible threat to Brianna Wu's life, they are either willfully misconstruing the facts or being intentionally alarmist to the point of complete credibility loss. " mno. they are being obtuse to the point of well adjusted, functioning ustard. how the fuck else does anything work in that country ? look at a dumb
mircea_popescu: i can't help myself but suspect there may have been a good reason for the weird, even given the immense piles of pointless insanity scattered throughout the code.
mircea_popescu: the wisdom seems to be that "don't fucking memcpy by hand, the compiler inlines (or even register-moves) most assignments itself and unlike you it fucking knows when to do it", but hey.
mircea_popescu: especially after hanging out here i trust c++ about as much as php with these sorts of things
mircea_popescu: and also, since we're taking out memcpy(&vchSig[0], pchSig, nSize); in favour of, from what i understand, unsigned char *pos = &vchSig[0]; are these actually and in fact equivalent ?
mircea_popescu: my one question, and not to mod6 in particular, is : can unsigned int nSize = ECDSA_size(pkey); be trusted to not fuck up the size ?
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 04:16:03; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my objection was to the notion of reading 600kB patches of spaces-to-tabs-every-line
BingoBoingo: They still out to get you?
TheNewDeal: oh hi there
BingoBoingo: Hello TheNewDeal
assbot: Dolphin Fluid Immersion Simulation - Therapeutic Bed & Mattress - OnCare ... ( http://bit.ly/20izFeH )
punkman: "The OnCare™ LiftSeat® Powered Toilet Lift™ features LiftTek™ core assistive technology" "patent-pending drop-in commode bucket"
punkman: http://www.tilera.com/products/?ezchip=585&spage=614<< these would be fun for "industrial-strength node", at least after some parallelizing
BingoBoingo: Basically Ironman's that movie where batman finally spends enough Hodl to build a suit that lets him do all the things superman does
ben_vulpes: "the reason why cops call it the web is because, The online is a 'Web' of lies and/or Computers are Satans kingdom on earth"
ben_vulpes: "As always when a large group of people without prior exposure to Jace are introduced to his world, every single existing theory on his authenticity was brought up and discussed in great detail, as were questions concerning the state of mental health care in the United States, the situation of veterans, and the practicality of using a Prius in a street race." << ladies and gentlemen, i present...my peers in the eyes of american law.
mod6: again [ which is defined as : int BN_sub(BIGNUM *r, const BIGNUM *a, const BIGNUM *b); BN_sub() subtracts b from a and places the result in r ("r=a-b"). ]
mod6: then this part: (BN_cmp(sig->s, halforder) < 0) will return -1 since 40000 < 50000
mod6: then this part: (BN_cmp(sig->s, halforder) < 0) will return 1 since 60000 > 50000
mod6: etc, there are man pages for each.
ben_vulpes: forgive further derpitude, but how on earth does `BN_CTX_get(ctx)` return two different values?
mod6: i'll note the code is not *identical* it does have different greater than, less than signs.
mod6: [ which is defined as : int BN_sub(BIGNUM *r, const BIGNUM *a, const BIGNUM *b); BN_sub() subtracts b from a and places the result in r ("r=a-b"). ]
mod6: then we do this line:
mod6: then this line: (BN_cmp(sig->s, halforder) > 0) will return -1 since 40000 < 50000
ben_vulpes: i get the conditional branching on the flag, but now how the identical code in the branches enforces high/low-s-ness
ben_vulpes: i may simply be exhausted, but i don't see immediately how the code inside the two branches is supposed to work
mod6: if you do a pull of that patch (be sure to obviously run dos2unix on it to get rid of CRLF), you should see that all of the lines in key.h:Sign() have tabs in front of them.
mod6: and we'll go from there.
mod6: im gonna add the code to key.h by hand.
ben_vulpes: i set you on the btcd snipe hunt aeons ago iirc
asciilifeform: but if you want to auto-munge the whole thing, why not
BingoBoingo: Sounds like other arm could use papercut too, but cranked up to 11
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my objection was to the notion of reading 600kB patches of spaces-to-tabs-every-line
mircea_popescu: then i fail to understand what objection you have.
mircea_popescu: is the formatting as is idiocy or is it not idiocy.
asciilifeform: specifically that i saw leaving the formatting alone as a forced thing.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform one day your "idiocy is contagious and fixing it a collosal waste of time and i've changed my mind and wah wah" thing'll land you in the soup.
asciilifeform: hey if the man wants to program in 'nano' who am i to say.
mircea_popescu: i dun have the energy to chase this. whatevs.
asciilifeform: hey the tabs thing only matters because mircea_popescu insists on programming in 'nano'
mircea_popescu: stop moving the fucking discussion omfg.
asciilifeform: and the ( foo )
ben_vulpes: 'scouring of spaces' means the tab-replacement?
mircea_popescu: it's absolutely machine-verifiable, you also get some people's signatures, what's the problem.
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 14:40:51; mircea_popescu: that once the current version being worked upon is released, we all do a whole-source scouring of spaces, and sign the independently generated results, which will be an immediate, other patch.
mircea_popescu: you don't have to read anything. apparently you don't even read the log lines!
assbot: Logged on 22-01-2016 00:51:59; asciilifeform: somebody here (ben_vulpes?) even learned cpp just for the occasion.
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-01-2016#1380503 << aye, to the extent that i 'learned cpp', and to the extent that i can even be said to 'know' any other programming language.
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 13:39:59; asciilifeform: i'd happily see the whole shebang reformatted, but this would destroy v-ability
assbot: An historical timeline of The Real Bitcoin (TRB) development, part ii. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1RXE2uA )
ben_vulpes: http://www.contravex.com/2016/01/21/an-historical-timeline-of-the-real-bitcoin-trb-development-part-ii/ << seconded for an in-depth discussion of the static build crapocalypse, and why we even bother with static builds anyways at the very least
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski also, considering a jeep cherokee or a toyota land cruiser of 2000 and 89 vintage for babywagon, any thoughts on either?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yeah, totally so very clever they'll spend thousands of dollars to dig themselves out of this pr hole and wonder why it dun work.
mircea_popescu: consequently, ikf anyone wants a payza account with 16 bux in it, it's crap@trilema.com, gangbangA1, and 12345678 "pin" w/e the shit that is.
mircea_popescu: fill a form. turns out they... STILL won't process the payment they advertised, unti... you upload "documents". and they'll send your bitcoin back, of course. ALSO after you upload "documents".
mircea_popescu: heh. so i try to use inept merchant. inept merchant doesn't take bitcoin, but takes a variety of bullshit "payment processors", one of which "payza". i go whatever, they pop up a 0.04blabla btc, which i pay. turns out THEY WON'T PROCESS the payment they advertised until you "verify", ie click on some link in email. so i do. turns out they still won't process the payment they advertised, untill you... fill a form. so i
mod6: but I didn't apply that one, just the second.
mod6: i did a `wget http://dpaste.com/2CH23F5.txt -O mp.first.diff` and the tabs in the + side seem to be preserved.
ben_vulpes: aha, ms. smith made the log finally!
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> or what, we discover dpaste auto-fucks-up the tabs anyway << im starting to wonder...
mod6: (13:43) <+mircea_popescu> mod6 http://dpaste.com/2CH23F5 << in the humble hope that it may serve. << first one
mircea_popescu: or what, we discover dpaste auto-fucks-up the tabs anyway
mircea_popescu: that's the 2nd one ?
mircea_popescu: <mod6> after i apply his patch, there are no tabs, only spaces. << i made a tab'd one, then asciilifeform wanted a different one so i made that too. which are you looking at ?
jurov: if mod6 learns to set up his editor to emit consistent kind of whitespace, then today was not wasted
asciilifeform: if somebody wants to mechanically retab the genesis and regen ALL OF THE VPATCHES - go ahead
asciilifeform: USE MOTHERFUCKING EMACS
asciilifeform: ftr i think the whitespace thing is lunacy
jurov: and then :retab
mod6: after i apply his patch, there are no tabs, only spaces.
mod6: no not straight to the diff.
jurov: if your're applying s/ /\t/ straight to the diff, that won't work, the format does require space after + or -
mod6: ah, now. im gonna leave the #__LINE__ #__FILE__ thing out.
jurov: for me it was amusing to see the amount of bile spent on that
mod6: <+jurov> the example i gave is pretty much complete. and you ought to experiment with it << would this work? : printf("ERROR, ECDSA_sign failed at #__LINE__ in #__FILE__\n");
mircea_popescu: simply gets replaced wit hthe right numbers pre compile time
jurov: maybe __FILE__ gives full path, i don't remember, then it's not very desirable
jurov: the example i gave is pretty much complete. and you ought to experiment with it
mod6: so then if I go line by line adding tabs instead of the spaces, i get a bit of a different vdiff output as such:
mod6: it pretty much applies the same, and if then I do a vdiff of a/bitcoin/src/key.h to b/bitcoin/src/key.h (where Mr. P.'s patch was applied in b/.../) then the diff looks the same.
asciilifeform: wasn't up to making a pqfp144 0.5mm pitch pad for it in the kitchen.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: he's after the legendary 'dragonfly' fpga.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: there were at least four package variants.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: To be clear, the part # for this is: XC6216-2HQ240C?
mircea_popescu shudders at the simple count of how many return fail; there are that don't say anything else.
mod6: mircea_popescu: ya, not a bad thing at all. but yeah, maybe eventually we move to that once the source "cools down" so to speak.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: it isn't like they're being used for something useful anywhere else.
mircea_popescu: (you have to understand - in principle, the extra maintenance is a mark of both fit in headness and "we really read these patches")
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: surely we can turn up eight of them.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: the other thing is that my understanding is that the 6216 was never produced in serious quantity
mircea_popescu: it's in the log!
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: fpga is pretty much never mounted in a socket (the low end xilinx cpld, e.g., 95xx series, do come in plcc - but high pin count makes this a bitch)
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: Isn't the whole purpose of an FPGA that I can program it in place?
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: so how do I run a program on one of these things without a socket connection?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: you do understand that these parts don't socket, right ?
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: to vendor: "if this is the real deal it should be able to run this program [include ascii file here], if it fries, I'm not buying it."
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2016 13:39:59; asciilifeform: i'd happily see the whole shebang reformatted, but this would destroy v-ability
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-01-2016#1379618 << dunno about this. laborious for certain, and would make the whole thing 10x more likely to 'fit in head'.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: it should be possible to test them before purchase, right?
asciilifeform: plus the possibility of scam
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: the thing i wanted to do would've required several, and i lacked the dough at the time.