mircea_popescu: anyway. asteroid one of the more beloved risks by insurers. rather rare, pretty decent auctuarial tables...
BingoBoingo: But just floating the idea.
mircea_popescu: one of the lulziest dispute, birds went into plant air intake.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you can actually insure against the tax thing, yes. you just have to have a large enough operation.
mircea_popescu: and re the fine print... there's a lot of suckers and retail in there. last i went to the states, i got full insurance, from lloyds of london no less. for, if memory serves, #159.
asciilifeform: and end up there.
mircea_popescu: hey, plenty of people get degrees in history of feminist theatre.
asciilifeform: like folks live in any other butugychag.
asciilifeform: only that plenty of folks, incl. apparently the late naggum, lived in it.
trinque: sorry, *there is a minimum expense involved in running a business and you can't get around that fact.
mircea_popescu: there is nothing wrong with this - people do it all the time. venice was entirely built out of the fact that a boat took on average 3.5 merchants
asciilifeform: trinque: mighty fine answer. but you left out the broomstick.
mircea_popescu: there exists a hole in this "single derpy consultant business".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: again i had this, and it was a real laugh, read the fine print sometime.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you have to appreciate : in nature, there exists such a thing as a hole.
asciilifeform: trinque: a motherfucking consulting gig ??
asciilifeform: naggum and stack were similar in that actually getting all of the support they were 'supposed to have to run business' would likely have ~wiped them out~ financially and still put them no farther away from statal rape
mircea_popescu: i always thought it was the eyes
mircea_popescu: the notion that you're going to run a business, but not have counsel, not have tax and accounting support, not have etc etc is like you'll cook a meal for a wedding without stove or pots or pans.
asciilifeform: the c,d,e buttons are actually connected to something, for him.
asciilifeform: but this is interesting to mircea_popescu because he ~has~ the maneuvering space.
mircea_popescu: one can't exist without these people.
mircea_popescu: do you understand this ? about a third of my mail EACH DAY is various people in various jurisdictions telling me "mr popescu how do we proceed in the following situation : X. A does so and so B does so and so [C, D , E]"
mircea_popescu: look, the dilemma here isn't "either i be eunuch or else i go fight for odin as a berserker"
asciilifeform: it is precisely the 'overcivilized' thing
asciilifeform: would have learned to not even try, and then what, spend life working for racal norsk ?
mircea_popescu: "i didn't expect solid items to be where the atmosphere goes"
asciilifeform: it is relevant to the man who has to pay and hasn't with what
mircea_popescu: the term "slap on the wrist" is a business call. it stands correct as it is. your "pretty penny" is a housewife call. it's not relevant how much it is.
asciilifeform: (they would not believe that he preferred to work 2-3 mo./yr in actuality)
asciilifeform: and it wasn't a slap on the wrist, it was - iirc - a pretty penny
mircea_popescu: at the very least would have warned him 2 years in advance.
asciilifeform: tax expert would have somehow settled the 80% norwegian tax, assessed ~based on profession~, rather than actual receipts, into something sane?!
mircea_popescu: he decided to do this incredibly idiotic thing after which didn't want to pay the slap on the wrist penalty that attaches to doing incredibly idiotic thing ?
mircea_popescu: "man should not discharge rifle into boat". who the fuck told him he can run a consulting business without a tax expert ? even accountant level.
asciilifeform: the one option was, i suppose, to go stack.
mircea_popescu: this is how this works : if it is your field of expertise, you have legal team ready to go. either you're a complete imbecile, or woe be upon whoever gets involved. if not your field of expertise, you're either prosecuting in which case generally you want to assign the matter ; or else you're in deep shit.
mircea_popescu: i've so far netted more money than the average us citizen's net worth out of simply selling cases.
asciilifeform: in usa, at least, 'individual' is more often than not sunk on the very day he has to so much as ~appear~ in court.
mircea_popescu: but in general - not that i expect this to be practically useful to anyone, as it isn't without the rest of the tools involved - the matter hinges on that fine thin line when liability can be personally attached. once you can start going after individuals rather than their precious "government" construct in the abstract, they pop like watermelons in august.
mircea_popescu: it's one thing to try and run a marathon. it;s another thing to try and run a marathon with pneumonia.
mircea_popescu: wouldn't advise anyone to try, either.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: except you did not do it from the position of being a pauper.
mircea_popescu: [yes, i've beaten tax authorities into the dirt on multiple occasions]
mircea_popescu: who the fuck asked anybody, and why isn't this just some text config file somewhere.
a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 00:46 phf: oh i understand. it's like the cl mode. they've been fighting cl mode for years, without success, because it's hellof useful. not only has cl mode now been replaced with cl-lib which prefixes ~everything~ with cl- (cl-first, cl-defstruct, cl-fuck-your-mother) but they also disabled highlight of all the cl forms. so cl-defstruct highlights, defstruct doesn't. to discourage the sins of the flesh, y'see.
a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 00:37 asciilifeform: there is apparently nothing more alluring to the vermin than a not-yet-verminized ecosystem
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455022 << it's not JUST that, also needs another ingredient, a special flavour of "open". geek-open, when people aren't comfortable with humiliating idiots.
mircea_popescu: check out the alfwall.
asciilifeform: it is not actually hard to massively improve on cadr, much of its gnarl was that it had to be made of 74xxx and of weird amd ALUs available at the time
phf: well, more like 8086 and cadr today and proper lispm maybe in the future if somebody designs one
asciilifeform: the thing is that neither of these concerns really interests anybody who has a spare 500k
asciilifeform: can run x86 proggies today, and have the option of proper lispm later
phf: so what's the advantage of fpga based architecture as opposed to someone hypothetically investing quite a bit more than 500k into a high density risc, etc.?
asciilifeform: and i have no reasonable expectation that anyone could recoup the costs.
phf: so the idea is what drop $500k on an pure documented fpga, hope that maker crowd will help you recoup your costs, use fraction to run tmsr infrastructure? :)
asciilifeform: (modern vendors succumb to the temptation to put a great many special-purpose parts in fpga, e.g., multipliers, even whole cpu cores, etc. i am specifically not talking about their rubbish.)
asciilifeform: even if enemy supplies ~all~ of the cubes.
asciilifeform: handily solves 'diddle' also - which cube will the enemy sabotage ? how does he know which one will hold what part of your circuit before you assemble them ?
asciilifeform: where 'computer' is simply this mass, of how many of these things you screwed together and attached dc power supply to.
asciilifeform: but one where the physical package is brought out to a 'nuts and bolts' thing that you can screw into an aggregate, tiled, without making pcb
asciilifeform: analogously, the correct thing to make today would be not merely fpga,
phf: the jet plane problem
asciilifeform: (in many modern plants, the things are purchased pre-prepped)
asciilifeform: chemically prepare the cut wafer ?
asciilifeform: cut the wafer ?
asciilifeform: do you need to melt and refine the si ?
asciilifeform: i.e. there is no effective way to subtly sabotage the thing if you do not know the victim's intended circuit layout.
asciilifeform: fpga also plays well with my 'specificity of diddling' theorem.
asciilifeform: (fpga only became a seriously practical thing, really, in 2000s. you will find them from '90s but on MASSIVE boards with dozens of the same unit)
phf: i'm very vague on the whole process, i'll have to read up on it
asciilifeform: the by far least idiotic item to make.
asciilifeform: and as it stands, 'hobbyist' semiconductor is roughly in the same place as hobbyist space travel.
asciilifeform: as it stands, it has a good chunk of the difficulty of space colonization but with ~none of the 'sexappeal'
asciilifeform: phf: 'give a damn' in the serious financial sense.
asciilifeform: there was a whole world of approaches that people spent their lives on, before cheap semiconductor, and entirely forgotten now
phf: define giving a damn. most people would see something like that as a hobbyist project along the lines of building a cpu out of nand gates, but funding it as an militarized alternative to modern computing?
asciilifeform: it is even worth considering that one could, in principle, compute on something ~other than a semiconductor~
asciilifeform: with the aim of, ideally, finding a way to make integrated circuit in similar ways to how hobbyist can make pcb
asciilifeform: but ok for, e.g., calculating dynamics of the tamper in hbomb.
phf: some problems are probably better solvable than others, can perhaps build a st-506<->sd gadget in garage, can't do same with the cpu
a111: Logged on 2015-08-02 16:50 kakobrekla: heh, re pdp, apparently http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_2050/
asciilifeform: recall the pdp emulator thread ?
phf: well the man who (still) does it for living is not necessarily the ultimate authority, he just does what he needs to do to get those mil contracts cashing in
asciilifeform: would have ended up with a result, too, if 'life had not gotten in the way'
asciilifeform: the protocol was documented, i sat down, started doing it
asciilifeform: at any rate, all of these problems are solvable IF SOMEONE CARED TO
asciilifeform: other than a tall (shrinking, as i understand, today - to nothing) pile of drives.
asciilifeform: the man who did it for a living, had no solution.
phf: i know some folk who can restore 3620 drives, but's that's because that's what they do. i'll ask them what their solutions are at the moment
asciilifeform: so i could get rid of the brick and replace with $1 sd card.
asciilifeform: wanted to not merely read the disk, but emulate
asciilifeform: i actually spent the first ~6 mo. after i bought the lisp machine, trying to rig up, with fpga, a mechanism to read the fucking disk
asciilifeform: then you probably know that NONE of the tanks or planes appearing in ones made in past 40 or so yrs are genuine period.
asciilifeform: (though schmidt did sell me an ~empty shell~ of a tape drive, in case i can ever locate the drive raw !)
asciilifeform: contents can only be loaded onto it from tape, and i have neither the tape, nor the tape drive !
asciilifeform: because, among other reasons, if the disk dies, there is literally NO WAY to restore it
asciilifeform: i haven't switched the thing on in some years
asciilifeform: i went to the house, where this was done
asciilifeform: which had been cannibalized, largely, to feed their dozen or so working ones
asciilifeform: does anyone recall the jet fighter thread ?
asciilifeform: it is quite the same with 10,000 opteron cpu.
asciilifeform: when romans sealed up a vestal virgin who had a fuck, they gave her a loaf of bread and a glass of milk
phf: i didn't realize it until you said it, and it's fucking hilarious, because i'd mock the strategy elsewhere
asciilifeform: and then ... .
asciilifeform: this is a computerized version of the traditional american 'survivalist' lunacy
phf: standardize on 2010 hardware, buy n+1 replacements for all the parts, write program to talk to god
asciilifeform: if they want classic msdos gamez
asciilifeform: phf: that 'future' is here already for iPnohe users, who have to run the js pc emulator in the browser to play gamez
asciilifeform: this is a ~basic, necessary step~ to sanity of whatever any other kind.
asciilifeform: this is why the sane fpga will have to be produced.
phf: naggums have a fit, for obvious reasons, but you can still keep on using that emacs, until "they come for me and noone's left"
asciilifeform: well in practice the only usable hardware ALREADY is out of print.
phf: end times situation is that there's not going to be usable hardware, because "nobody" needs it
asciilifeform: (how rms left the lisp world, think.)
asciilifeform: it is especially concerning because the 'end times' situation, where usable computer hardware is expensive and you cannot rely on other folks having same one as you, etc. is actually how we ended up with the unix braindamage to begin with.
phf: i'm more concerned that there's very little ground left that's unpolluted on which i can build a house or possibly raise a barn with other people
phf: i'm ok that there exists a superior tool that solves a class of problems. kind of like right now paying for intellij ensures that i can do a certain paid work in the most effective way available. perhaps if i have another interesting lisp project, i'll call alegro people again, etc.
asciilifeform: phf: presently there is nothing else to do
phf: wireshark is a kind of IDA or intellij, can just have them running on your most-sane-dev-box-du-jour
asciilifeform: thing is, someone will have to maintain the forked (and, in practice, re-write, most of them are quite nearly unmaintainable) proggies. there is not actually a substitute for, e.g., wireshark.
asciilifeform: actually carrying the exercise to a usable-to-other-people, well-documented conclusion is somewhere Nth on the list of things i would do if i had mircea_popescuesque levels of free time
phf: who's going to do the burning
asciilifeform: at any rate my gentoo-depoetteringizer does not magically fix the ecosystem, shat to all hell, no. but what it ~does~ do is to hard-nuke the autopullin crapolade and reveal who is your enemy and who is merely passive victim.
asciilifeform: at the heart of something like power management there is normally a 500-lines-of-c util that mostly worx, but surrounded for some reason by hairball of rubbish scriptolade
asciilifeform: and yeah, you will know the idiocies by their mile-long trails of 'pango', 'bonobo', and other strange deps
asciilifeform: (outside of the mega-film)
asciilifeform: just as, walking on the street, you meet men, and flies, but never a man-fly hybrid of questionable species
phf: at the very least the demarcation lines become ~very~ obvious. it's either an old unix hand with one or two libs in dependency tree, or a modern monster that pulls 50 libraries and fails to install because of some poetterlib
asciilifeform: and a buncha other turd also
asciilifeform: but there is not actually any escape from it.
asciilifeform: this is pretty much the only answer.
phf: there's no solution to this kind of shit outside of "i use cmucl with emacs 19 and ilisp" or whatever, which is programmer's equivalent of mp's 2005 thinkpads
asciilifeform: the only solution to this kind of shit is to BURN it out with HOT IRONS.
phf: can still (require 'cl), and it will work, but discouraged from writing since there's no highlighting. next release using cl functions directly is going to produce deprecation warnings.
phf: oh i understand. it's like the cl mode. they've been fighting cl mode for years, without success, because it's hellof useful. not only has cl mode now been replaced with cl-lib which prefixes ~everything~ with cl- (cl-first, cl-defstruct, cl-fuck-your-mother) but they also disabled highlight of all the cl forms. so cl-defstruct highlights, defstruct doesn't. to discourage the sins of the flesh, y'see.
asciilifeform: or nobody in his right mind would consider their crapolade.
asciilifeform: they HAVE to break your working box.
asciilifeform: phf: you gotta understand their modus operandi
asciilifeform: but oh noez it already existed and predated the flies
phf: well, emacs is not outside hostile to "obsolete". iswitchb-mode greets me with "this function is now obsolete" on each load. why? who the fuck knows.
asciilifeform: then you try it and find that if you need custom compiler flags (or, satan forbid, a non-x86 gcc) you're SHIT out of luck
asciilifeform: the case of flycheck was especially instructive because, near as i could tell, the thing provided ZERO advantage over flymake
phf: although i wonder where you should start the emacs tumour countdown, sometime around MULE
asciilifeform: common lisp verminization will proceed on the same schedule as the emacs one, i imagine
asciilifeform: it is like crack cocaine, to them.
asciilifeform: there is apparently nothing more alluring to the vermin than a not-yet-verminized ecosystem
a111: Logged on 2016-01-19 04:28 phf: asciilifeform: you know they produced a whole series of those, f.el, dash.el, s.el. "modern"!
asciilifeform: but then somebody realized that it was next on the 'embrace & extinguish' chopping block, and the 'flychecks' appeared.
asciilifeform: traditionally, the populist chickenbrains folks avoided emacs like plague
phf: ben_vulpes: to be fair common lisp tumor is mainly perceptible only to a special kind of basket cases. it is still one of the healthier ecosystems.
shinohai: It probably isn't ben_vulpes just the first language that came to mind.
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> "easy" means "this shit is so complex it will take you a month to realize that it never worked in the first place" << lol
ben_vulpes: eg common lisp has grown a decent tumor of the shit lately
ben_vulpes: "easy" means "this shit is so complex it will take you a month to realize that it never worked in the first place"
ben_vulpes: "minimalist" means "i made an epic shitton of assumptions and then laid down a zillion lines of code in support of those assumptions"
ben_vulpes: and that is that if someone claims a software library to be "minimalist" or "easy", they are lying through their goddamn teeth
mircea_popescu: on the grounds that penis too small to get in normal way anyway
mats: the blood thing worked out handily but i never got anything better than food gift cards and free cookies, juice
mircea_popescu: nm apparently they pay
mircea_popescu: well, after they dilute it 4:1, of course.
mircea_popescu: at least the cows get a quarter per gallon for the milk the supermarket sells at a dollar a liter.
a111: Logged on 2016-04-21 21:39 asciilifeform: i have nfi why anyone here even bothers with reddit today.
mod6: oooh, i heard about that 'information superhighway thingy'. they say we'll all be doing everything in 'Virtual Reality' in a few years.
mircea_popescu: well... reddit'll have them, and what are they to do. let the internet age pass them by ? miss out on the informational superhighway ?
mircea_popescu: notably, they're not allowed here.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform kids gotta go somewhere. they're not allowed almost anywhere else.
asciilifeform: i have nfi why anyone here even bothers with reddit today.
mircea_popescu: the community of what ?
mircea_popescu: phf ofcourse, but the lulz of "community"
phf: i suspect snr on reddit is so low the event is not even going to be perceived as something that requires a cover up on such articulated terms. the burying is something in the range between "confederate flag? downvote." and "mircea? something not scam? downvote."
asciilifeform: still need a hard point of trust to know the genuine public key
a111: Logged on 2016-04-21 21:25 mircea_popescu: and for that matter i've yet to hear someone go "i'm not sending anything to derpy webwallet / webexchange / webusgtronism because htey don't gpg sign the address"
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-21#1454940 << thing is, and see today's earlier thread in fact, pgp per se does not magic away the 'give me a place to stand on' problem
asciilifeform: i'm willing to believe that there are other pgptronic businesses, 'other mpexes', but strictly on the same basis as 'life on other planets', i have no knowledge of it
mircea_popescu: as long as there's boost, everyone's happy.
mircea_popescu: and for that matter i've yet to hear someone go "i'm not sending anything to derpy webwallet / webexchange / webusgtronism because htey don't gpg sign the address"
mircea_popescu: somehow, nobody has found it their life's mission to badger everyone into the dust for this, however.
mircea_popescu: everyone else is "well this is what we print on the screen" and that's that.
mircea_popescu: mpex being, today as it was when it got started, exactly the ONLY bitcoin service doing this.
midnightmagic: The payment protocol thingy Gavin did *can have* also the property of saving signed invoices for the client including such information but nobody cares and there hasn't been a high-profile use of the PP where a dispute ensued.
midnightmagic: ted, to prove "hey, this is the address they gave me, now they're saying they didn't receive anything but look at this txid."
midnightmagic: fwiw, I don't have much of an opinion one way or another. If I went into it knowing this were the case, I could find it very useful to have this property in my transactions with, say MPEX. But for, say, a *deposit address* on a webpage for an exchange, I *would* want non-repudiability as per, say, TLS message authentication extension in RFC .. hrm. That RFC where it's defined but was never implemen
asciilifeform: didn't we do this way back when, when i wrote the mpex review
asciilifeform: re the 'trust and machines' thread,
mircea_popescu: the tits ?
punkman: they even had sequels iirc
copumpkin sits off to the side
mircea_popescu: copumpkin excuse me while i strawman you into a convenient position for the benefit of the kids.
copumpkin: not sure I ever claimed otherwise :)
mircea_popescu: tech is a tool. yes, there are very good places where making things work by the cold equations makes sense.
mircea_popescu: occasionally reared its head around bitbet, "oh, you should do it so -and -so provably". met with the universal "fuck you, there's no way out of trust." which, obviously, instructed those who it instructed and washed off the rest.
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic the chief problem here is that time has gone by and left copumpkin behind. he's still in this lulzy 2012 where bitcoin was a geek thing and the fashion of believing "technology will supplant humans" went unchallenged, in their own circles.
midnightmagic: On the other hand, this way copumpkin -- I think -- can state things about the transaction that can't be known and nobody can say different. And MP for that matter, which reduces the transaction to trust.
asciilifeform: depends how the disposable key is revealed, and where.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform while it's true that the otr as implemented for say irc is dubious at best, his point remains :
asciilifeform: i.e. the session key being revealed.
asciilifeform: i described the basic essence
asciilifeform: midnightmagic: the idiot complications of usgtronic otr protocols are irrelevant.
midnightmagic: rve the pubkey was revealed, and itself could assert that the one happened before the other. The difference is subtle. In OTR the keys involved are supposed to be shredded at termination of the conversation. copumpkin here is looking specifically for non-repudiability post-hoc which neither OTR nor your described scheme could give him.
midnightmagic: revealing the key would break the forward secrecy. But I know what you mean. Still, as described all an eavesdropper would have to do to fairly strongly prove the authenticity of the message is stamp it and assert that there's no evidence the pubkey was revealed before then. That is, a third-party passively listening to the conversation with self-assured reliability could watch it happen, then obse
midnightmagic: I *think* the OTR protocol uses a revealed MAC between the parties *but more crucially, a stream cipher for malleable encryption* so that at explicit termination of the conversation neither party can claim later that the other one definitely wrote something specific in the log of each. The deniable authentication protocol therein doesn't reveal it to the public -- only to the other party. Publically
mircea_popescu: the rest - not people.
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic the only legal proceeding contemplated will go on here. anyone seeking justice in the new world must have a wot presence.
mircea_popescu: heck, jpm can barely afford it by the hour.
mircea_popescu: mpex is very carefully designed with various such tradeoffs considered, an' i think i've done enough free consulting on the topic for one day.
asciilifeform: so until time T, recipient ~knows~ that message could only have been sent by mircea_popescu, but at time T+e it could-have-been-from-anyone as far as the confiscator, who finds the records, is concerned.
asciilifeform: so the non-repudiatability of the message only lasts for as long as the two parties wish, and no longer.
asciilifeform: incidentally if mircea_popescu really needed to solve this 'problem', he easily could, in cryptography world this is known as 'otr protocol', you encipher to a public key generated for the occasion, and the private key for it is later thrown to the wind for hypothetically anyone to know
asciilifeform: why hand out crosses to users for usg to nail them to.
asciilifeform: midnightmagic: prolly why mircea_popescu specifically does not spit out such receips, i thought this was clear from the thread
midnightmagic: MPEX would have to cooperate absent signed receipts sent to the user.
gribble: Predict the price of Bitcoin on 1 April 2015 - win CGB's ...: <https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=553123.0>; Inside Bitcoins New York: <http://insidebitcoins.com/new-york/2015>; Inside Bitcoins New York: <http://insidebitcoins.com/new-york/2016>
mircea_popescu: the occurence of things that can't happen always takes place in april.
asciilifeform: good, ol'-fashioned malware stuff. if the deal pans out.