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ben_vulpes: howzabout another scenario
ben_vulpes: this was a thing i bounced off weeks ago!
ben_vulpes: conflict *with
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: this introduces a conflict between "pressing a head presses all signed patches at same leaf-level that have been signed by wot"
ben_vulpes: i think it's asciibeterministic
ben_vulpes: mhm, i recall
ben_vulpes: either that or find roots first, toposort from each root, and then apply each set of toposorted patches in some arbitrary order
ben_vulpes: i suspect v's toposort will need to account for multiple geneses
ben_vulpes: phf: what do you mean "first seen nodes"?
ben_vulpes: this is a nifty patchbrowser, phf
ben_vulpes: felipelalli: mpex doesn't respect key expiration extension.
ben_vulpes: phf: the chains must kiss somewhere in order for the ordering to make sense
ben_vulpes: phf: yuuuup.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell asciilifeform ^^ plz to opine
ben_vulpes: so that operators can press, migrate dir, and press more.
ben_vulpes: eg that `v press shiva stans_sweet_patch.vpatch && v press shiva stans_sweet_patch.vpatch' must result in the same tree as running the command once.
ben_vulpes: this means that v-pressings have to be idempotent.
ben_vulpes: a thing to do might be to leave the genesis press as-is, move the resulting tinyscheme dir into the correct shiva location and then press the rest of the patches reground to reference the shivadir
ben_vulpes: phf: i see
ben_vulpes: but it's so close! with only an unknowable amount of further hacking it could totally work!
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: has blessed us with a new root node with which to fuzz all v implementations
ben_vulpes: don't know or care
ben_vulpes: have fun
ben_vulpes: "naked Natalie Wood"
ben_vulpes: with that spittoon
ben_vulpes: have fun boys
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: highlights "uppose if we were all mentally retarded a la United States / Some O"
ben_vulpes: phf: also, if you'd care to share your llvm/clang compilator i'd love to take a look
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: link me?
ben_vulpes: phf: selection works on chrome for me
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: would you confirm that tinyscheme_genesis_fixed.vpatch does *not* depend on shiva parts one and two?
ben_vulpes: i even pointed that one out to you, but we're mad busy
ben_vulpes: don't even add up to a whole computer over the year.
ben_vulpes: diapers are pretty cheap, actually.
ben_vulpes: how do you think i'd rather spend my dollars, on 'macbook pros' or bitcoins and linux workstations?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: you think i don't know this?
ben_vulpes: la serenissima might be able to rent my oar pullers if it could convert my deficit spending to turkey-buying dollars
ben_vulpes: "viewing, not yet."
ben_vulpes: "selecting works!"
ben_vulpes: that's how mod6 has always quoted things...
ben_vulpes: but there's no actual reason why they couldn't mine high-s transactions, adherence to party line aside.
ben_vulpes: i'm sure that i misunderstand.
ben_vulpes: this'd invalidate the signature.
ben_vulpes: it is greater on malleated transactions?! but but
ben_vulpes: how do the miners benefit though.
ben_vulpes: could just as easily be a USG FUD campaign.
ben_vulpes: > deeply unclear
ben_vulpes: how did you come to the conclusion that it was miners doing the malleation, and not nobodies malleating and rebroadcasting?
ben_vulpes: uh next
ben_vulpes: but digging as far down into the roots of my conclusions as makes sense to dispel ambiguity
ben_vulpes: sure, i'm mostly confirming my own recollection.
ben_vulpes: now were b,tmsr~ to run its own pool mining only high-s transactions, would clients in the wild reject those blocks?
ben_vulpes: okay.
ben_vulpes: now, are miners not mining transactions signed low?
ben_vulpes: great, i follow.
ben_vulpes: (create and broadcast)
ben_vulpes: correct?
ben_vulpes: i create a transaction with a low s value. someone listening to broadcast transactions can rewrite my tx to have a high s value.
ben_vulpes: so a decomposition then
ben_vulpes: if you have access to the gradebook...
ben_vulpes: in that it's possible to malleate in either direction. ease i suppose doesn't figure into the question.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: meaning that transactions can only be malleated from high->low order?
ben_vulpes: can someone confirm that it's just as possible to malleate a transaction low->high s as it is to malleate it high->low ?
ben_vulpes: anyways, mod6 you gotta upgrade v.pl to press *all* reachable leaves. that's the problem i'm running into with asciilifeform's recent shiva rebake
ben_vulpes: aha i begin to see the wisdom of pressing all reachable leaves now
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: if i understand the shiva rebake correctly, applying tinyscheme_genesis_vpatch, then tinyscheme_crud_snip, then tinyscheme_repl_fix_fixed bangs the tree into the correct shape?
ben_vulpes chuckles
ben_vulpes: thanks for confirming mod6
ben_vulpes: that's what i thought
ben_vulpes: well there is a line break between those two strings
ben_vulpes: so the '.' is both a line-break escape and string concatenation?
ben_vulpes: yessir
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391245 << lines 64 and 65 of v.pl. perhaps i can't read perl?
ben_vulpes: yeah boss
ben_vulpes: okeee
ben_vulpes: so if i press those individually, in order, they work. but if i press the last patch, i believe that it fails to find its antecedents.
ben_vulpes: the rebaked ones?
ben_vulpes: !s bug for you
ben_vulpes: the 'rebaked' ones.
ben_vulpes: did you get a chance to repro the issue i ran into with asciilifeform's shiva patches?
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391110 << i did, not saying that it's not lying through its teeth though: http://imgur.com/Y1tGvZC
ben_vulpes: entirely unrelatedly, can anyone corroborate the story of the russians who burned a shitton of usd on camera and got the then-fed to credit some domestic account or other?
ben_vulpes: how many rickety fucking buckets of others' design must a man endure before he gets the fuck out and walks on his own feet is the question i'm endeavoring to resolve for myself
ben_vulpes: boundedness?
ben_vulpes: FIGHT
ben_vulpes: adlai: i don't know shit, frere, i just drag in dead birds for the adults to dispose of.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: this is for a motherfucking crystalspace project
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1391028 << i wonder what 'not making the cut' looks like these days. not willing to burn ones youth on the pyre of tenure-track whoring?
ben_vulpes can hear the retching from here
ben_vulpes: has 'really great cpp interop'
ben_vulpes: nooo, llvm bytecode.
ben_vulpes: if you have information to the contrary...
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i believe clasp is a standards-compliant commonlisp
ben_vulpes: because i want to press "shiva" into a tree that doesn't have, say, malleus_mikehearnificarum
ben_vulpes: reheheally?
ben_vulpes: my wot, mon trezor!
ben_vulpes: wot wot
ben_vulpes does not nod
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski another translation challenger appears: http://trilema.com/2010/inca-o-pozitie-sexuala/
ben_vulpes: has the unexpected advantage of making alf barf
ben_vulpes: it nominally offers a lot over standard cl cffi, but i have not verified that myself.
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-01-2016#1390963 << look into clasp then, i'd just started digging into it when asciilifeform released shiva
ben_vulpes: diana_coman: no hard requirement, sure, i just imagine that replacing the crystalspace client's going to be no small pile of reverse engineering. i say this knowing nothing about the cs server/client software relationship.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform plans to use it to inspect memory of running bitcoinds in real time
ben_vulpes: diana_coman: i doubt you'll move the client away from cpp, but tinyscheme is a potential route to embedding scheme /in/ the existing client.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell diana_coman ^^
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell jurov and eulorans et al you might want to look into this tinyscheme thing
ben_vulpes: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-January/000201.html << i swear i saw some mentione of this earlier but cannot find it now. for those playing along at home, the sig name for these patches that will please v.pl is <patchname>.vpatch.<signatory's_wot_handle>.asc
ben_vulpes: ah wait no that wasn't ak47.sh
ben_vulpes: punkman: you could always contribute to b,tmsr's deficit by standing the jenkins instance up yourself.
ben_vulpes: scripting the whole process in the context of "continuous integration servers" is nifty, but finding the noob caltrops is also important.
ben_vulpes: dunno man i don't actually think it's of much value. having actual humans in the actual wot build things is much more important.
ben_vulpes: this was god i don't know how many months ago
ben_vulpes: funnily enough i just nuked its builddir
ben_vulpes: a full sync of each bitcoind produced by each patch sent to the ml
ben_vulpes: trunk*
ben_vulpes: another entry in the long list of things i've written that never made it into the truck
ben_vulpes: never for battle
ben_vulpes: a well polished bash turd
ben_vulpes: and buildroot handily obsoleted ak47.sh
ben_vulpes: v.lisp has just been languishing on the island of poorly written and embarassing software
ben_vulpes: i shut the jenkins down because full syncs of each patch was prohibitively resource and time intensive and parallelized poorly
ben_vulpes: or ak47.sh?
ben_vulpes: punkman: jenkins? or v.lisp?
ben_vulpes: probably any non-vpatch file'd do the trick.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell mod6 stick a random file with .html suffix in the patches dir to reproduce the stale gnupg dir big
ben_vulpes: this is probably a purposes and causes thing, huh. avoid working towards the purpose of usable software for other people, and proceed from the cause of "hell is other people's code"...
ben_vulpes: is everyone who hacks on this thing to write and use their own vtronic cockpit controls? or is the production of /a/ vtron usable in other contexts a goal?
ben_vulpes: i am struck by a question i find interesting
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell mod6 alternatively, consider using mktemp -d
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell mod6 i got v.pl into a weird place where it didn't clean up its gnupg tempdir. perhaps consider using an "exit_gracefully" function where you're currently simply "die"-ing.
ben_vulpes: nifty
ben_vulpes: ever share it?
ben_vulpes: punkman: vit's a v.py descendant, correct?
ben_vulpes: well one is prefixed with the stupid unix hidden-file/dir period convention
ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, while we're ripping the rug out from under mod6, is there a good reason to continue with the inconsistent directory structure of `./.seals' and `./patches'?
ben_vulpes: punkman: "he's a good man, and thorough"
ben_vulpes goes digging through the gui for "never ever fucking toss my scrollback option"
ben_vulpes: but this fucking term just lost my motherfucking scrollback, because people reinventing wheels for os x have no historical context
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: nah, because i get "good signature from korsgaard"
ben_vulpes: punkman: by my read 'rebase' as mircea_popescu uses it means 'dump into the v tree'
ben_vulpes: "gpg: WARNING: not a detached signature; file `buildroot-2015.05.tar.gz' was NOT verified!"?
ben_vulpes: has anyone else noticed the following when using build-bitcoind-9999*K.sh?
ben_vulpes: yo mod6 what does it mean in perl to do my $var = "string" . \n "otherstring" is the period a linebreak escape in perl, and the variable implicitly a concatenation of the two strings?
ben_vulpes: http://www.northofreality.com/secrets/ << bit of a shame that aramcheck's not in the wot and on patreon, i like his weirdfic.
ben_vulpes: what is "the leyla black"?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i'm using trinque's experimental makefiles.
ben_vulpes: build-bitcoind-whateverk.sh?
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell trinque i may be exceptionally retarded today, but is there a reason why shit/Manifest.sha256 doesn't contain a hash for buildroot?
ben_vulpes: i'm just fumbling in the dark
ben_vulpes: i'm struggling to build a cohesive mental model for the right way to approach this gordian knot
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform likes to scream about how dumb the keyring is
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell trinque hey buddy looks like your makefiles depend on keys in the personal keyring
ben_vulpes: mod6: do you expect me to have korsgaard's key in my personal keyring when running build-bitcoind-V99996K.sh?
ben_vulpes: > read buildroot
ben_vulpes: so what is the thing to be done with korsgaard's key?
ben_vulpes: hey, stan's bouncer died!
ben_vulpes: deedbot.org script mentioned above i believe uses asciilifeform's old key
ben_vulpes: some truth in it.
ben_vulpes: it's a joke!
ben_vulpes: "read everything on the mailing list and call me in the morning"
ben_vulpes: think they're going to try the sterile males trick?
ben_vulpes: (and the wget 0day!)
ben_vulpes: phf: is this mod6's svgerator or your own?
ben_vulpes: yeah, messy.
ben_vulpes: aha, that's what i thought!
ben_vulpes: rather than including procurement of deps in the build scripts, force users to actually download the deps themselves.
ben_vulpes: idem for the vpatches.
ben_vulpes: a small step to the disc would be to slam buildroot, openssl, bdb and boost into a tar.gz and stick it on the website.
ben_vulpes: i'm with stan, fwiw.
ben_vulpes: or rather, i'd like that.
ben_vulpes: we should really do a bsd, and sell the discs for a bitdime each.
ben_vulpes: tres nervous.
ben_vulpes: (reminds me a bit of the "check every return code" naggum line)
ben_vulpes: eyy, mod6 so i just spun up v.pl on a new box and despite wget not being installed v.pl still claims successful sync
ben_vulpes: i am unconvinced that the six months have been paid, or that if they have any impression has been made.
ben_vulpes: first: node.js. second: "naw, vpatches are for faggots". third: 2.5kloc patch degendering reference implementation log statements.
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388910 << and to think i was trying to gently guide the keyid in question to enlightenment
ben_vulpes: but black is the only acceptable dry-erase color.
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389171 << i have floor-to-ceiling mirrors, on which i use expos liberally for maths lessons for the girl and alphabet lessons for the kid
ben_vulpes: mod6 and trinque as well
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform in particular
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-01-2016#1389544 << i would also dearly like to hear about the setups people have in place for hacking on this codebase
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389489 << would it make sense to do this with edge-per-file and filenames on the edges?
ben_vulpes: oh phf this is lovely
ben_vulpes: saying "no" to a hundred thousand dollars from Conde Nast is worth approximately 5x the bezzlebuxx in question.
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1389453 << let me tell you, the look of astonishment, disbelief, and 'omg my priors' on $admingurl's face when i told her i valued publishing the ssl piece under my own name so highly that no terrestrial rag could afford to buy it from me was udderly priceless
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski 'hysterical raisins'!
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell cazalla hey you
ben_vulpes: b. n.
ben_vulpes: nifty phf
ben_vulpes: ascii_butugychag: unless it's the magic bits to dump the launch codes back down the pipe
ben_vulpes: (unrelated: www.northofreality.com/tales/2016/1/27/wealth-appreciation)
ben_vulpes: their blog has even gone to spamseed
ben_vulpes: as did i
ben_vulpes: it looked better than prb back in the day
ben_vulpes: anyways.
ben_vulpes: and deserves more of a place in the lgos.
ben_vulpes: it was inadequately articulated for my taste.
ben_vulpes: automation is productive waste.
ben_vulpes: it is the hole through which distraction slips in and focus dribbles out.
ben_vulpes: the fifteen second interruption has mega cognitive costs.
ben_vulpes: just wait the thirty seconds randomly five times per event, having a spare on hand will never pay off.
ben_vulpes: a whole gurl just to supply extra canes in case yours hangs?!
ben_vulpes: but the w4ste!
ben_vulpes: spur* of the moment exercise.
ben_vulpes: programming similarly is not a supur of the moment.
ben_vulpes: running cane - demands pause.
ben_vulpes: no - /in session/.
ben_vulpes: you'd probably snap the thing in half
ben_vulpes: imagine you have to wait for your cane to become useful for a minute randomly during a beating
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-01-2016#1388601 << /me is astonished this needed articulating
ben_vulpes: ascii_butugychag: these lisp tentacles are rather spiffy
ben_vulpes: polarbeard: do i still fail to make myself clear?
ben_vulpes: removing dead code is good, far better than rewriting the log lines. just split it out so that it can be reviewed seperately from the two thousand five hundred and ninety odd other lines of that patch.
ben_vulpes: definitely split the actual muntzing out into its own patch instead of complecting it with the rest of the work. i might be able to read and meditate on that patch.
ben_vulpes: he also wanted to tabbify the whole thing
ben_vulpes: "this 2.6kloc patch rewrites every log line in the reference implementation, in support of further work i'm doing on" etc etc
ben_vulpes: hell, submit it to the ml for posterity, i believe you have the wot rating for that.
ben_vulpes: yeah, sure
ben_vulpes: you realize this is a 3kloc patch.
ben_vulpes: the problem with a patch of this size is that my face wearies of reading myriad log lines changed for seemingly aesthetic reasons, and i fear that even a close read will miss an underhanded c contestant.
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